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shadow_archmagi
2009-01-17, 05:45 PM
Wow. Why did no one ever TELL me there was a system that could quickly and easily be made to construct an adventure where Batman and Captain Planet fight an army of Daleks led by Darth Vader!?

Of course, this is just from looking through the skills and feats; Is there some horrible drawback to it? I don't see many M&M threads on this site, so maybe I havn't seen something yet. Maybe superheroes just arn't as much fun as you'd think.

So, what are the Giantip member's opinions of it? What helpful comments and advice can you give me? What are the things most people screw up trying to run M&M? What are some of the Pro Tips?

NPCMook
2009-01-17, 06:03 PM
We started up a game recently with my local group, our rag tag group made up of a Trekkie named "Admiral Sci-Fi," The Huntsman from Freakazoid, Guddah; he's a Huge fat man, Captian Cultist(Warhammer 40K) Who is just awkward, then there is "Nobody," to keep it short the player names all his characters "Nobody" when he plays a new game, then there is my character "Dash Gettum, Elemental Animal Handler Extraordinaire, Gotta Obtain the Lot of 'Em"

Its fun, my character wasn't exactly complete for the first session so I didn't get to do much except use my Teamwork feat to grant a few people a +5 to attack

Tsotha-lanti
2009-01-17, 06:15 PM
You must not be looking very hard. There's several M&M threads a week here, which is more than just about any other system that's not D&D.

It is, simply and literally, the best thing to ever come out of d20. It is better by leagues than D&D.

Of course, this only applies to second edition. First edition is a horrible abortion of a game. The difference in quality is staggering.

Collin152
2009-01-17, 06:20 PM
This thread is make me curious. Just how awesomazing is this system? I have always had trouble finding a decent way to roleplay superheroes effectivley, and when I do, I have trouble finding people to play; if this system is quality and popular, it could solve both problems.

Drascin
2009-01-17, 06:39 PM
Well, Collin, if you want my opinion, it's pretty damn good.

It's basically a point-based d20 (saves, attack rolls, and such, are still there. This makes it also good, because it gives the average D&Der a feeling of familiarity that helps you get them into it :smallwink:), but it has an amazing level of flexibility - I have played only three characters in the system, but I can already vouch that it certainly accomodates very different concepts with astonishing ease (one is a gadgeteer genius magical girl, another is basically a Starcraft Ghost, and the third is... well, Flandre Scarlet. I wanted to know how much it'd take the other players to realize the ripoff) - without getting overcomplex or drowned in 9001 optional rules, as GURPS can get at times.

If you wish, I can explain a bit more... but I have to warn you I get very longwinded at times :smallredface:.

AmberVael
2009-01-17, 07:38 PM
This thread is make me curious. Just how awesomazing is this system? I have always had trouble finding a decent way to roleplay superheroes effectivley, and when I do, I have trouble finding people to play; if this system is quality and popular, it could solve both problems.

Even if you don't want to play superheroes, this is a great system. It has a lot of flexibility, and a certain standardized approach to abilities that helps even out power level at least somewhat for a system so close to DnD.

I find it to be a very good system, and from what I know, it is indeed popular.

Tengu_temp
2009-01-17, 07:45 PM
Unlike DND, which does a crap job on representing a heroic fantasy setting and even worse at almost every other setting, M&M is great for superheroes and just as great for almost anything else (it'd take me a lot of effort to think up a setting that M&M would not be able to represent easily). It's the only good d20 game, for me.

shadow_archmagi
2009-01-17, 07:56 PM
Unlike DND, which does a crap job on representing a heroic fantasy setting and even worse at almost every other setting, M&M is great for superheroes and just as great for almost anything else (it'd take me a lot of effort to think up a setting that M&M would not be able to represent easily). It's the only good d20 game, for me.

The intrigues of WWI soldiers trying to rise in rank while avoiding the certain death of being forced to participate in an over-the-top.

Sorry. I have to take things as challenges. :smallconfused:

Tengu_temp
2009-01-17, 08:02 PM
Still doable easily with M&M, unless you consider "even the biggest badass can and probably will die from one bullet" an integral element of the setting... in which case you could probably just increase the damage of guns and it'd be fine. The way items work in M&M, this is not even a houserule.
M&M works well even if nobody uses superpowers.

Otogi
2009-01-17, 08:17 PM
Well, like most people, I think M&M is rather spectacular, and does a rather spectacular job of representing the superhero genre as a whole. The game is made so that you can have Batman and Superman at the same exact level without outdoing each other. Try to do that with D&D or even Modern and you get a mess that requires you spend 300 dollars to get a few spells and feats, or illegally download them. And even then you have giant power difference that require backbraking min-maxing and powergaming that lives upto it's name, unless you use 4th edition, of course. But then you can't play superheroes at all. M&M is point buy, and believe me, those things annoy me to no end, but I lacks the hundreds of needless extras and steps you have to do in order to make one character, like GURPS and (thought I hate to admit it) BESM. It's all about powers, feats and skills. It's also great for playing other games, like swords & sorcerey.

I'm rambling, but believe me, it's a great game. If games were ranked as movie stars, M&M would be the Will Smith of Pen & Paper.

Tsotha-lanti
2009-01-17, 08:40 PM
I'm rambling, but believe me, it's a great game. If games were ranked as movie stars, M&M would be the Will Smith of Pen & Paper.

This is an apt analogy because M&M went from crap to great.

One thing I've always wanted to do is run a Faerϋn game with M&M. I mean, your archetypal FR party past level 8 or so is a group of superheroes already. Creating a bunch of templates and standard power arrays and such would easily let you model races, classes, spells, etc. to the degree you want to, and the system just allows for plain more heroic gameplay than D&D. The fact that equipment/wealth/items are not a major concern (and any good item is bought as and works just like any other power) adds to the heroic feel.

Edit: Also, a Gloranthan game. Great, now I'm going to have to stat out Harrek and Jar-Eel for M&M...

shadow_archmagi
2009-01-17, 10:19 PM
So, does M&M work well for villanous campaigns?

NPCMook
2009-01-17, 10:27 PM
So, does M&M work well for villanous campaigns?

Yes

FOCL.

Green Bean
2009-01-17, 11:20 PM
So, does M&M work well for villanous campaigns?

Yep. The system lets you build pretty much anything you want, heroic or otherwise. The most important part is to let your players know genre of villains you're looking for. Do you want your players to strap the heroes into overly elaborate death traps, or would you reward them for executing them immediately and cremating the body? Mind you, this is important for heroic campaigns as well.

Starscream
2009-01-18, 01:26 AM
I have nothing but fanboyish praise for M&M. It is quite simply one of the greatest RPGs I have ever encountered. I love comic books, and have tried a few times to get into superhero based tabletop gaming, but none of the systems ever worked right for what I wanted to do.

But with M&M, everything works great. For the first time, Super-Speedsters actually make sense, magic users and super scientists are actually on par, and, as previously mentioned, Batman could actually face Superman and have a shot.

And yes, it can fit almost any setting. Although not as broad as GURPS (one of my other favorite systems, although I always found their superhero material underwhelming), M&M is great for any sort of "cinematic" campaign. In any sort of action movie, the characters could easily be described as having some degree of superpowers, and Mutants & Masterminds does a pretty great job of portraying that.

You could easily create anyone from John Wayne to Hulk Hogan with these rules. Hmmm, now that might be funny.

Nerd-o-rama
2009-01-18, 02:30 AM
What these guys said. Except the bits about 1st Edition; I never played it, so I have no opinion. 2nd is more available and what everyone plays anyway.

Only possible complaint is that combat and injury is fairly cinematic as opposed to simulationist. I, personally, prefer cinematic combat, but if you're looking for a gritty, realistic squad-level tactical simulation, the system would need some modifications.

Satyr
2009-01-18, 03:25 AM
Yes, M&M is a good game. It is extremely flexible and adaptable (not in the near of Gurps, but almost close), allows for strongly individualised characters and works well on the over the top heroic combat level (unlike Tengu_temp I think the game has significant difficulties to emulate a more sombre and iolent combat feeling, and unlike Nerd-o-rama I conscider this as a serious drawback).

Mutants & Masterminds is probably the best variety of D&D out there. It gets rid of many of the anachronic rule elements such as classes, and the very flexible character creation allows for more depth of character.

Morty
2009-01-18, 04:28 AM
I've heard of it, I won't play it. That's all I have to say on the subject. Just so there's a semi-negative opinion here.

Jerthanis
2009-01-18, 05:41 AM
Mutants and Masterminds is my very favorite game system, and that is by such a wide margin that I doubt I'll have reason to reconsider.

I'd go into more detail, but I need sleep and by the time I wake up, dozens of people will tell you why it's so awesome.

I think that one of the reasons you might not see as many threads about it is because there's less wrong with it. Most threads are about, "How come X sucks in Y game" or "People say X sucks, but I don't agree!". If there was more to complain about, there'd be more to talk about. Similarly, there's less obfuscation in the rulebook, so there's no impetus for you to ask, "How do I make a character who can breathe lightning and travel through time?" because it's immediately obvious. It's also immediately obvious what's wrong with the game... partly because the book has sidebars saying, "Yes, this ability can be overpowered if you take it to extremes, so don't take it to extremes."

BardicDuelist
2009-01-18, 05:54 AM
I've heard of it, I won't play it. That's all I have to say on the subject. Just so there's a semi-negative opinion here.

Why won't you play it?

Morty
2009-01-18, 06:01 AM
Why won't you play it?

Well, let's see. From what I hear, it's a cinematic system with abstract combat rules aimed at superhero-style games. Which is about as far from being my cup of tea as you can get. And it's point-based too, another thing I don't like.

Saph
2009-01-18, 06:03 AM
We've just started a M&M 2nd edition campaign. It's pretty cool.

You do have to approach character creation differently, though. The way to build a M&M character is to say "I want my character to do this, be good at this, and not be good at this" and then build it - ie concept first, then mechanics. If you do mechanics first and just try and see what you can get away with, the system breaks.

So it requires a bit of concern for balance on the part of the players, but then, if you're used to D&D, that won't be anything new. :)

- Saph

Satyr
2009-01-18, 06:03 AM
Not everyone is content with larger than life characters of tremendous power. Mutants and Masterminds has certain difficulties to emulate grittier and less merciful settings.

BardicDuelist
2009-01-18, 06:47 AM
Not everyone is content with larger than life characters of tremendous power. Mutants and Masterminds has certain difficulties to emulate grittier and less merciful settings.

That's what GURPS is for, as it has the opposite problem.

Morty
2009-01-18, 06:50 AM
I've never tried GURPS myself, but maybe I will, as I'm constantly frustrated by my unablility to find a gritty system to suit my tastes. Warhammer is nice, but it's too setting-specific.

Satyr
2009-01-18, 07:27 AM
That's what GURPS is for, as it has the opposite problem.

No. I hate to say it, but you are actually wrong there. Yes, Gurps is based on some kind of reality and grows upwards from there to more fantastic systems. This means, that the basics of the system are somewhat based on reality, but not that it is unable to, let's say, include playing superhero characters (http://www.sjgames.com/gurps/books/supers/) or huge flying lizards (http://www.sjgames.com/gurps/books/dragons/). It works quite well in a high power environment, you just have a) to through points at the character and b) allow for more varied advantages, and so on. Annoyed of the character's high vulnerability? Take Damage Reduction. High Skills make sure you make many, targeted, deadly attacks. If that isn't enough, there is stuff like altered time sense, extra attacks and so on. I play in a Gurps group where the characters are old Greek Gods in the modern world and it plays smoothly (while Ares is hacking his way through a SWAT unit of the local police and Apollon hunts helicopters with his bow).

Th other approach - starting with a high power, cinematic system and distilling it into a fairly realistic system - is much more difficult, as stacking up is not a very difficult process, while fine tuning and adaptation actually is.


I've never tried GURPS myself, but maybe I will, as I'm constantly frustrated by my unablility to find a gritty system to suit my tastes. Warhammer is nice, but it's too setting-specific.

Well, Gurps is as non-setting specific as it gets. But the whole "Gurps is a gritty system" is a myth. It works as a gritty system, if you want to, but as it works for every setting and mood (not necessarily equally well), this is not even one of the more characterising features.

If you look for a gritty system look for Harnmaster. It is a very dark age medieval game, and while it is meant for a specific setting, it can easily be transfered to other settings.

WitchSlayer
2009-01-18, 07:45 AM
I really really want to try Mutants and Masterminds, thing is, I can't find a game near me and no one I know wants to play via the internet.

bosssmiley
2009-01-18, 09:29 AM
The intrigues of WWI soldiers trying to rise in rank while avoiding the certain death of being forced to participate in an over-the-top.

Sorry. I have to take things as challenges. :smallconfused:

Blackadder Goes Forth RPG? :smallconfused:

...

Genius! I'm in. :smallbiggrin:

Knaight
2009-01-18, 12:43 PM
I've never tried GURPS myself, but maybe I will, as I'm constantly frustrated by my unablility to find a gritty system to suit my tastes. Warhammer is nice, but it's too setting-specific.

You might want to try Fudge with the brutal wound track. The basic combat system is that when somebody beats somebody elses roll, how much they do that by goes into damage. If one person rolls well, and another poorly, or one person is significantly ahead, you see high damage wounds in the default wound system, with the brutal wound system a decent gunshot will almost certainly kill. Fudge also has a really really harsh gang up bonus. Think D&D flanking, but with +5 to hit instead of +2, you don't have to actually flank, and just have to both be attacking the same person, and it adds up the more people there are, so that if one person is fighting three, the three have +10 to hit each. And it makes it harder to hit them without just ignoring two of them and going for one, which is a great way to get killed if any of the others are remotely competent.

shadow_archmagi
2009-01-18, 08:15 PM
So, trying to draw up a character.

Are there any really bad character choices? Like, say, the equivalent of 3.5's Toughness?

Collin152
2009-01-18, 11:53 PM
I got the rules, looked through them, downloaded a demo of Hero Labs, made a character, and I love the system, and my character concept. If only there were games around here I could play in. Maybe I'll search the play by post section.

lisiecki
2009-01-19, 02:17 AM
Wow. Why did no one ever TELL me there was a system that could quickly and easily be made to construct an adventure where Batman and Captain Planet fight an army of Daleks led by Darth Vader!?

Of course, this is just from looking through the skills and feats; Is there some horrible drawback to it? I don't see many M&M threads on this site, so maybe I havn't seen something yet. Maybe superheroes just arn't as much fun as you'd think.

So, what are the Giantip member's opinions of it? What helpful comments and advice can you give me? What are the things most people screw up trying to run M&M? What are some of the Pro Tips?


Mutants and Masterminds is all kids of cool.
I have never actually played a "superhero" game with it.
My group has used it for Deadlands, Warhammer 40k, political intrigue in the far future, and currently a group of sharecroppers being lead through 1930's America by an insane industrial tycoon

Its versatile ill give it that

shadow_archmagi
2009-01-19, 06:21 AM
I got the rules, looked through them, downloaded a demo of Hero Labs, made a character, and I love the system, and my character concept. If only there were games around here I could play in. Maybe I'll search the play by post section.

Hey, between you and the other guy who posted the same complaint, that makes three of us. I'd be happy to run a chat-convo based game.

Nerd-o-rama
2009-01-19, 07:16 AM
So, trying to draw up a character.

Are there any really bad character choices? Like, say, the equivalent of 3.5's Toughness?Well, there's very little that totally sucks (except maybe Comprehend (Sea Creatures) as your only power) - just get feats that fit your concept, and it should all work out. There are a few things you should keep in mind:

1) Attack, Defense, and Toughness Saving Throw. Unless you're playing a total "support" character who doesn't enter main combat himself, these should probably be at or near the campaign PL cap. Feel free to use Attack/Defense Focus feats to save points and focus in on a particular archetype.
2) Likewise, Damaging or Saving-throw-power-having powers should be as high as you can get them. Even if you're using your basic free unarmed strike for your main offense, make sure you have a respectable Strength modifier
3) Alternate Powers, Alternate Powers, Alternate Powers. These are the best way to get a variety of abilities into a limited number of PP. Standard Action Attack powers are often the best things to put in Alternate Power arrays, since you can almost never use more than one in a given round anyway. Defensive powers like Force Field, on the other hand, should not be put into AP arrays unless you want to have a deliberate weakness.
4) Finally, remember: concept first, build second. M&M has way too many options for you to just grab stuff at random. Relatedly, powers and feats are mechanics. You can assign whatever fluff to them you want; a magical arrow and an laser beam are both Blasts, just with different descriptors.

Oh, and I guess Deflect is kind of overcosted for what its effect is.

shadow_archmagi
2009-01-19, 10:02 AM
Okay, I'm confused about Alternate Powers.

Say I'm trying to make, say, Electricity Man. I want to be able to blind and shock people. The advice seems to be "Take electricity control and then Blast and Dazzle as alternates." Only thing is, where precisely is the benefit in doing so? Why not just take Blast and Dazzle as regular powers instead of alternate ones? Where is the mechanical benefit to having one power that is two powers instead of just two powers?

Also I'm confused as to how taking ranks in the alternate powers works.

lisiecki
2009-01-19, 11:24 AM
Okay, I'm confused about Alternate Powers.

Say I'm trying to make, say, Electricity Man. I want to be able to blind and shock people. The advice seems to be "Take electricity control and then Blast and Dazzle as alternates." Only thing is, where precisely is the benefit in doing so? Why not just take Blast and Dazzle as regular powers instead of alternate ones? Where is the mechanical benefit to having one power that is two powers instead of just two powers?

Also I'm confused as to how taking ranks in the alternate powers works.

The only benifit in the situation you describe is that is your playing a PL 5 game, and you buy all those powers to the PL cap.
Buying EC with 2 Alt powers costs you 12 points
where as buying them all by them selves is 30 points

However after you buy EC with 2 alt powers, you can only trigger one per turn. Not a big deal in this situation, but is if your using other power combos.
Also, if you are unable to use EC for some reason, you also lose access to Blast and Dazzle

Drascin
2009-01-19, 11:27 AM
Okay, I'm confused about Alternate Powers.

Say I'm trying to make, say, Electricity Man. I want to be able to blind and shock people. The advice seems to be "Take electricity control and then Blast and Dazzle as alternates." Only thing is, where precisely is the benefit in doing so? Why not just take Blast and Dazzle as regular powers instead of alternate ones? Where is the mechanical benefit to having one power that is two powers instead of just two powers?

Also I'm confused as to how taking ranks in the alternate powers works.

Don't worry, it's understandable - getting how Alternates work is hard at first. But basically, the advantage is that you save up quite a few points, because an alternate power only costs you one point. But better to use an example, because I don't really have enough command of English to make a good explanation:

Let's say you want some electricty-based powers. You, of course, pick Electricity Control at a big rank, let's say 10. This costs you 20 points, and gives you a basic, single-target Blast at rank 10, because that's part of the power. With me so far?

Now, we want a stunner. We could make a new, independent power, let's say Dazzle. We want it to be a big flash that screws up enemies' vision, so we pick Visual, for 2 points/rank. So, rank 10 would take up 20 points. 40 points for just two powers - pretty pricey...

So we'll look into alternates. An alternate is "another effect from the same power", another "configuration", so to speak. It's easy to believe that making a flash can be a valid use of the power to control lightning, so it's eligible (always check with your DM before making alternates).

We buy the Alternate Power feat for the Electrical Control power, and this allows us to, in exchange for the inability to use both at the same time (rarely an issue with standard actions, as Nerdo said, but can be important in the case of defensive abilities), get another power that costs the same or less as the original, ie, Electrical Control. So we could get our 20-point Dazzle, and make it an alternate of EC, for one single point. And so, we get the same variety, but at a fraction of the cost.

That easy to understand? Alternates are a bit hard to wrap your head around at first - it just sounds so broken. But it isn't, trust me. It doesn't really give you more heighth of power - but it gives breadth.

shadow_archmagi
2009-01-19, 11:32 AM
Don't worry, it's understandable - getting how Alternates work is hard at first. But basically, the advantage is that you save up quite a few points, because an alternate power only costs you one point. But better to use an example, because I don't really have enough command of English to make a good explanation:

Let's say you want some electricty-based powers. You, of course, pick Electricity Control at a big rank, let's say 10. This costs you 20 points, and gives you a basic, single-target Blast at rank 10, because that's part of the power. With me so far?

Now, we want a Dazzle. We could make a new, independent power, let's say Dazzle. We want it to be a big flash that screws up enemies' vision, so we pick Visual, for 2 points/rank. So, rank 10 would take up 20 points. 40 points for just two powers - pretty pricey...

So we'll look into alternates. An alternate is "another effect from the same power", another "configuration", so to speak. It's easy to believe that making a flash can be a valid use of the power to control lightning, so it's eligible (always check with your DM before making alternates).

We buy the Alternate Power feat for the Electrical Control power, and this allows us to, in exchange for the inability to use both at the same time (rarely an issue with standard actions, as Nerdo said, but can be important in the case of defensive abilities), get another power that costs the same or less as the original, ie, Electrical Control. So we could get our 20-point Dazzle, and make it an alternate of EC, for one single point. And so, we get the same variety, but at a fraction of the cost.

That easy to understand? Alternates are a bit hard to wrap your head around at first - it just sounds so broken. But it isn't, trust me. It doesn't really give you more heighth of power - but it gives breadth.

So, let me get this straight. If I take all of the Alternate Power feats for Electrical Control (Suitable Alternate Power feats for this power
include: Animate Objects (Limited to electrical devices –1), Confuse,
Datalink, Dazzle (auditory or visual), Strike (Aura, electrical), Stun,
and Teleport (Medium: power lines –1)

Then I have a rank 10 Electrical Control, a Rank 10 Animate, a rank 10 Confuse, a rank 10 Datalink, a rank 10 Dazzle, a rank 10 Strike, a rank 10 Stun, and a rank 10 Teleport, all for the price of 27 points as opposed to over 100?

Saph
2009-01-19, 12:33 PM
Then I have a rank 10 Electrical Control, a Rank 10 Animate, a rank 10 Confuse, a rank 10 Datalink, a rank 10 Dazzle, a rank 10 Strike, a rank 10 Stun, and a rank 10 Teleport, all for the price of 27 points as opposed to over 100?

Yes. As pointed out, M&M isn't entirely balanced. If you pick a vague enough power source, then by the rules you can pick practically every power in the book as an alternate.

This is why you really have to do concept first, mechanics second, otherwise you end up with a character that can do everything but doesn't make much sense.

- Saph

sombrastewart
2009-01-19, 01:38 PM
So, let me get this straight. If I take all of the Alternate Power feats for Electrical Control (Suitable Alternate Power feats for this power
include: Animate Objects (Limited to electrical devices –1), Confuse,
Datalink, Dazzle (auditory or visual), Strike (Aura, electrical), Stun,
and Teleport (Medium: power lines –1)

Then I have a rank 10 Electrical Control, a Rank 10 Animate, a rank 10 Confuse, a rank 10 Datalink, a rank 10 Dazzle, a rank 10 Strike, a rank 10 Stun, and a rank 10 Teleport, all for the price of 27 points as opposed to over 100?

That's only true if the powers you've listed have the same point cost per rank as the power they're alternates of. Electrical Control characters are some of my favorites, so I'll use that. Just say (I know this isn't accurate) that Electricity Control is 2pp/rank, and you have 10 ranks. Teleport (without the drawback you listed) is 4pp/rank. That means you only have 5 ranks of teleport when used as the alternate power.

Again, I know the numbers are wrong, just making the point.

Drascin
2009-01-19, 01:42 PM
So, let me get this straight. If I take all of the Alternate Power feats for Electrical Control (Suitable Alternate Power feats for this power
include: Animate Objects (Limited to electrical devices –1), Confuse,
Datalink, Dazzle (auditory or visual), Strike (Aura, electrical), Stun,
and Teleport (Medium: power lines –1)

Then I have a rank 10 Electrical Control, a Rank 10 Animate, a rank 10 Confuse, a rank 10 Datalink, a rank 10 Dazzle, a rank 10 Strike, a rank 10 Stun, and a rank 10 Teleport, all for the price of 27 points as opposed to over 100?

Correct. Though remember, while you're using one power in your array of alternates, you can't use any other. So while you're Animating a fridge, you can't also keep blasting yourself, and such other concerns.

Of course, all this is always subject to DM approval. Breaking M&M is trivially easy, even more than most point-based systems.

Starscream
2009-01-19, 01:59 PM
Of course, all this is always subject to DM approval. Breaking M&M is trivially easy, even more than most point-based systems.

Agreed, which is why it's so important to make it very clear what you want your character's abilities and limitations to be before you try to stat them up. One power level ten character is not necessarily equal to another power level ten character any more than two D&D monsters with the same challenge rating are "equal".

The upshot to this is that with a good understanding of the rules, you can make some pretty impressive heroes even in low level campaigns. I've always liked this because it fits in with the way things usually work in comic books; the Doom Patrol might not be as powerful as the Justice League, but they can still believably save the world every now and again.

The downside is that if the GM doesn't get actively involved in judging what is and isn't acceptable, you can end up with some severely overpowered characters, even accidentally. It's the price you play for such versatility.

shadow_archmagi
2009-01-19, 07:14 PM
Cool. Thanks!

Collin152
2009-01-19, 08:57 PM
And here I was going to ask about alternate powers, and I find a perfectly good explanation has sprung itself out of the aether. Awesome.

Shadow Archmagi, if you do wan't to run a game sometime, just let me know.

lisiecki
2009-01-19, 10:17 PM
So, let me get this straight. If I take all of the Alternate Power feats for Electrical Control (Suitable Alternate Power feats for this power
include: Animate Objects (Limited to electrical devices –1), Confuse,
Datalink, Dazzle (auditory or visual), Strike (Aura, electrical), Stun,
and Teleport (Medium: power lines –1)

Then I have a rank 10 Electrical Control, a Rank 10 Animate, a rank 10 Confuse, a rank 10 Datalink, a rank 10 Dazzle, a rank 10 Strike, a rank 10 Stun, and a rank 10 Teleport, all for the price of 27 points as opposed to over 100?

Yes...
but youll have to fear Drain, Transfer and nullify.
After all if you lose access to any one individual power, you lose acces to the whole enchilada

kpenguin
2009-01-21, 04:16 AM
So, I obtain a pdf of the M&M sourcebook and I must say, I'm impressed. The system appears to be very flexible and just... good.

One question: what exactly do dynamic alternate powers do?:smallconfused:

WitchSlayer
2009-01-21, 04:28 AM
I, too, would be interested in a game of Mutants and Masterminds.

kpenguin
2009-01-21, 04:37 AM
Oh yeah, that too. Since my copy is only digital, I wouldn't feel comfortable running any games with my RL group.

Dhavaer
2009-01-21, 04:50 AM
One question: what exactly do dynamic alternate powers do?:smallconfused:

You can have multiple powers in the array active at once. My hero Lightning Bringer has Electricity Control and an Aura Strike as part of a dynamic array, so she can use Electrical Control to blast things at a lower rank than normal and still have her aura up.

shadow_archmagi
2009-01-21, 05:26 AM
I'm conflicted.

Should I build a Doctor Nerd character (good with computers, machines, has a Device to do his blastering)


Or should I try to re-create the Pieman off Simpsons?

kpenguin
2009-01-21, 05:28 AM
Pie-man seems like he's a low-powered hero. Perhaps make the nerd scientist and give him the sidekick feat to obtain pie-man?

Nerd-o-rama
2009-01-21, 05:31 AM
Effectively, an array of Dynamic Alternate Powers allows you to split the point-value of the base power between multiple powers in the array, rather than it being all or nothing like regular alternate powers. As with APs, you can only change what powers are active and to what degree once per round.


Oh yeah, that too. Since my copy is only digital, I wouldn't feel comfortable running any games with my RL group.Why is that? Inability to easily let them borrow it? Tell 'em to get their own. Alternatively, email and trust them not to make permanent copies.

Drascin
2009-01-21, 06:11 AM
Why is that? Inability to easily let them borrow it? Tell 'em to get their own. Alternatively, email and trust them not to make permanent copies.

Or, if you want to only lend it to them at first, just print it and then lend it to them as you would a normal book you bought. I always do for the RPG pdfs I buy. It's also more comfortable to read, and I can take it to bed with me, which is where I make most of my character concept-dreaming.

kpenguin
2009-01-21, 06:21 AM
Thanks guys. I'll take your suggestions to heart.

Collin152
2009-01-23, 10:41 PM
I'm conflicted.

Should I build a Doctor Nerd character (good with computers, machines, has a Device to do his blastering)


Or should I try to re-create the Pieman off Simpsons?

My honest opinion is that you should do both. Pie-bombs for the freakin' win.
Just like classic Batman villains.

fireinthedust
2009-01-24, 01:52 AM
The intrigues of WWI soldiers trying to rise in rank while avoiding the certain death of being forced to participate in an over-the-top.

Sorry. I have to take things as challenges. :smallconfused:

Sorry, friend, but here you have failed miserably. You're talking about (likely) low-PL characters with a focus on skills (military and cha-based) and some feats, with WWI equipment (blast for guns, immunity: mustard gas for gas masks, some vehicles maybe).


Tips from a pro:

1) The GM must be present to the players when statting their characters. Some powers must not be allowed (like building a character with 150 Immunity to eeeeverything, plus dimensional travel and intangibility and penetrating blast, etc.). Some character options need to be modified to keep game balance. The GM (in my case *me*) needs to understand the rules so they can know what's fun to play and what will not be fun to play.
I veto'd dimensional travel at will, for example, as the player wouldn't sit out while the others fought monsters and interacted with NPCs. More play time, less wait time.

2) Injury points are a -1 pentalty to saves (and I think attacks as well) that stack as combat goes on. For NPCs use a d20 for each one to keep track of the total penalty; one per villain or tough fight (like an especially brutal robo-Rhino). Minions are down if they fail their toughness save or (if you think it deserves it) the PC hits them (no save needed).
Modify their rolls by the total die number (so for one fight the villain had -8, which was more than his Toughness save +6, meaning I subtracted 2 from his d20 rolls).
The villain or PC is unconscious if they fail their save by 15+. Fights last about the same time as DnD, but there's more suspense as you never quite know what roll with do it.

3) Role Play is very important, more so than you'd think. Combat is fun and crazy, but there isn't the focus on miniatures that there is in D&D; you have the same movement rates, but it's not as spelled-out as D&D (although, as a rule of thumb for the battlemat, I say the PC can move 6 squares (30ft.) as a move action, plus one square for each rank of a movement-based power. If they full-round action it, they can zip anywhere they want (though speedsters I may allow to just place themselves anywhere on the mat they can reach each round before acting, but it hasn't come up yet))
Anyway, the supers genre can do just about anything. That is a great quality of the game, so let it fffffffllllloooooowwwww. Let them come up with weird plans, whatever. Encourage strange ideas and free-style the plot alot. You'll have to improvise all the bloody time, too.


4) Any genre or style of play is possible, as you can construct any power or object (just about) that you can think of. *you* might not know how to do it yet, but check out Atomicthinktank.com and go to the Roll Call thread. The guys there know how. Also, think of their builds as a free Monster Manual and NPC shop (or PC shop if you need a build idea). Double check the math and concept, though. (Instant Superheroes is great value for your buck. The Freedom City sourcebook is another good one, and the book of magic. If I had to pick those would be my top 3.

5) Dynamic Array of powers basically mean you can either do one power at full, or a second power at full, or both at a weaker level at the same time. So if you have an energy shield (force field power) and a blaster (blast power) off the same battery, you can use the full shield, or the full blaster, or a weaker shield while shooting with the blaster a little bit.
An array on its own just means you have a bunch of different powers, but you're denied use of the others while you use one. Dynamic means you can use a bit of each at the same time, though not at full.

shadow_archmagi
2009-01-24, 10:00 PM
My honest opinion is that you should do both. Pie-bombs for the freakin' win.
Just like classic Batman villains.

You mean, create a Mad Pientist?

wadledo
2009-01-24, 10:20 PM
Well, I'm looking at the M&M books on amazon, and I've got to ask what I should get.

Tangent: There aren't any groups(for anything) nearby, nor any serious gaming stores that I could ask, so I'm just going to have to go at it PbP for the time being.
And no, I don't want to start up my own game.

The basic one yes, but do I need anything else if I want to play a particular type of character or ability?

shadow_archmagi
2009-01-24, 10:41 PM
Well, if you're interested in joining a game DM'd by someone with only a very basic grasp of how the system works, I'd be happy to run one via MSN (play by post infuriates me with it's slowness.)

[email protected] for those who are interested.

kpenguin
2009-01-24, 10:58 PM
Eh. I'm not a big fan of instant messaging.

Any of the MnM vets willing to run a pbp game?

Collin152
2009-01-24, 10:59 PM
Well, if you're interested in joining a game DM'd by someone with only a very basic grasp of how the system works, I'd be happy to run one via MSN (play by post infuriates me with it's slowness.)

[email protected] for those who are interested.

So, what email you there?
Your grasp of the rules is still prob'ly better than mine, mind...

Juhn
2009-01-24, 11:04 PM
Heh, I've been meaning to look into this system for a while. Ever since I watched Harold & Kumar (or at least, that's where Google tells me it's from; I really don't remember anything about that movie) and heard the line: "Bullets - my only weakness! How did you know?" I've wanted to make a superhero who that applies to.

Somehow playing a character who is immune to a nuclear explosion, or getting hurled into the sun, yet who can be taken down by any thug with a pistol is immensely amusing to me.

Of course, I'd have to save him for decidedly less-than-serious games.

shadow_archmagi
2009-01-24, 11:34 PM
So, what email you there?
Your grasp of the rules is still prob'ly better than mine, mind...

No, log onto MSN (or meebo) and say "I want [email protected] to be my friend"

Collin152
2009-01-24, 11:36 PM
No, log onto MSN (or meebo) and say "I want [email protected] to be my friend"

Done.
So, what kind of game we talking here?
Setting? Power level? Et cetera?

FatJose
2009-01-24, 11:57 PM
I thought M&M 2nd Edition was terrible and so vague. I played it once and we had fun but I wasn't happy about it. I felt like there was something I missed. Something crucial. I, of course, blamed the book for not explaining things well. Now that I'm reading what other people have to say about it I think the reason I disliked the game seems a little obvious.

The game was too easy to learn, too easy to use and way too fast paced. It was...fun.:smalleek:..Fun for a DM as much as for the Players. My reason for being put-off by the game was because it was too good. Suspiciously good. The customization is too in depth.:smallmad: The fun I had with it was similar to the fun I had the first time I played D&D, when we had completely forgotten to factor in all the extra crunch and crap in 3.5

That's right, how dare they make a d20 game that's 100% customizable? d20 games make their bread and butter from having little incompatible bits that are exclusive to the setting, but not M&M. You want a superhero? GO ahead. You want a Super Soldier from the future? There it is. You want a Level 15 Ranger? Easy as pie! :smallbiggrin:

NPCMook
2009-01-25, 12:31 AM
One thing I'm slightly confused about is the Attack bonuses on the character sheet, you have your Attack bonus, Melee Attack Bonus, and Ranged attack bonus, do you have to level all those individual or do they all go up when you increase the attack bonus?

Nightson
2009-01-25, 12:46 AM
One thing I'm slightly confused about is the Attack bonuses on the character sheet, you have your Attack bonus, Melee Attack Bonus, and Ranged attack bonus, do you have to level all those individual or do they all go up when you increase the attack bonus?

Attack bonus raises both your melee and ranged attack bonus at 2 pp for every +1

Or you can raises melee or ranged attack power individually at 1 pp per +1 bonus

You have the additional option of raising your attack bonus for a specific attack at 1 pp per +2 bonus

NPCMook
2009-01-25, 01:29 AM
Attack bonus raises both your melee and ranged attack bonus at 2 pp for every +1

Or you can raises melee or ranged attack power individually at 1 pp per +1 bonus

You have the additional option of raising your attack bonus for a specific attack at 1 pp per +2 bonus

Ah, I thank you for the clarification, what page does it state this one btw?? I can only find where it tells you "+1 Attack per 2 Power points"

BobVosh
2009-01-25, 01:42 AM
I only have had two issues with the system.
1. I've made like 4 characters and never gotten to play one. Each time the game fell apart due to X
2. I have always liked looking at books to see what looks really neat before making character concepts. There are too many neat things you can do with the book. Also everything was cool that if you want it is a gun that shoots translation waves at sea creatures rather than just you understand sea critters.

Character creation takes a long time if you don't have a friend who has done it, but name a system where that isn't true.

So shadow, can you send me a pm with info on your game? Also I added you to msn, email was [email protected]

Nightson
2009-01-25, 02:14 AM
Ah, I thank you for the clarification, what page does it state this one btw?? I can only find where it tells you "+1 Attack per 2 Power points"

Attack Bonus on pg. 32 and the feats Attack Focus and Attack Specialization on pg. 59

kpenguin
2009-01-25, 02:31 AM
*grumble grumble grumble*

I guess I'm desperate for a game of this so... I signed up for MSN. Added Shadow to my contacts...

How exactly do games on instant messengers work? How do you keep track of die rolls? Honor system? Linking to Invisible Castle?

Dhavaer
2009-01-25, 03:31 AM
How are equipment bonuses supposed to apply? Some of the pre-made NPCs have equipment that drives them over their power level (Criminal's pistol, thug's pistol and leather jacket) and the equipment section says that armour doesn't stack with other bonuses, yet all the NPCs with armour have it stack with at least their Con bonus. Is there a FAQ on this?

kpenguin
2009-01-25, 03:40 AM
There's an FAQ here (http://grfiles.game-host.org/2e_files/MM2eFAQ.pdf). Some problems might be fixed in the errata (http://grfiles.game-host.org/2e_files/MM2e-errata.pdf), so check there too.

Skaven
2009-01-25, 04:48 AM
I have a question. I want to build two devices.

First is a sword that teleports back to its owner, but does not enable the user to teleport. How does this work out?

Second is a gun that can turn into a pendant to be work round the neck. It can be pulled from the pendant and becomes full size. When put back to the necklace it turns bck into a pendant. Any idea how to work this out?

Thanks.

Nightson
2009-01-25, 05:01 AM
How are equipment bonuses supposed to apply? Some of the pre-made NPCs have equipment that drives them over their power level (Criminal's pistol, thug's pistol and leather jacket) and the equipment section says that armour doesn't stack with other bonuses, yet all the NPCs with armour have it stack with at least their Con bonus. Is there a FAQ on this?

Basically, NPCs aren't required to follow power level rules. The power level notation is just a general guideline as to how tough they are.

Dhavaer
2009-01-25, 05:02 AM
I have a question. I want to build two devices.

First is a sword that teleports back to its owner, but does not enable the user to teleport. How does this work out?

Second is a gun that can turn into a pendant to be work round the neck. It can be pulled from the pendant and becomes full size. When put back to the necklace it turns bck into a pendant. Any idea how to work this out?

Thanks.

The sword would probably be best done as just a strike, without using Device, since being able to teleport would make it impossible to lose. The gun... not sure. Maybe a hard to lose device with an alternate power easy to lose device that gives Blast?

KnightDisciple
2009-01-25, 05:20 AM
Well....if both of these ideas are so the item is never lost? Or just flavor?
Because if it's more of a "super uber sword that I can throw but returns and that no one can pick up", that's likely a power, not a device.
If it's a "handy retrieval/storage" thing, maybe increase the point cost by 1, and that's it?

Nightson
2009-01-25, 05:35 AM
I have a question. I want to build two devices.

First is a sword that teleports back to its owner, but does not enable the user to teleport. How does this work out?

Second is a gun that can turn into a pendant to be work round the neck. It can be pulled from the pendant and becomes full size. When put back to the necklace it turns back into a pendant. Any idea how to work this out?

Thanks.

First device depends entirely upon how easy said teleportation is. If we're talking free action, no easy means to stop it, then you're looking at a strike power with sword flavor. If you aren't going to lose it in combat, but you can't call it back to your side if it's taken far away from you, or tied down, or behind lead or something then you're looking at the 4 point version of the device power. If you want some more horrendously complicated teleport power on a 3 point device then it could be stated out with a self teleport with plenty of flaws to keep the cost down, -1 for being a sword, -2 for only being able to teleport to one place, -1 for whatever limitations are placed upon it, etc.

Second device is just an array i.e.

Device Array X+1 points
- Gun Form X points
- Necklace Form X points

Unless you mean a plain necklace, in which case you're just talking about flavor, not even worth a single power point (as a single power point could get you a useful second device while in necklace form).


Also, for everyone else, for fun times check out the character builders over on the official MnM forums, there's just about every character in fiction over there. http://www.atomicthinktank.com/viewforum.php?f=14&sid=db43ca80dbffa1b27ffc708851249e1e

NPCMook
2009-01-25, 07:16 AM
Currently working on my "pokemon trainer" I think he is turning out okay, but since some of you guys are better with the system can you check over my work. The GM let us build at power level 15

Dash Gettum -
Power Level: 15
Points: 225
Size: Medium

Abilities -
Strength: 24(10+14)
Dexterity: 26(10+16)
Constitution: 30(10+20)
Intelligence: 24(10+14)
Wisdom: 28(10+18)
Charisma: 26(10+16)

Saves -
Toughness: +10
Fortitude: +10
Reflex: +8
Will: +9

Combat -
Defense: 15 Flat-Footed: 10
Initiative: +8
Attack: +10

Feats -
Equipment 1
Animal Empathy
Defensive Attack
All-Out Attack
Teamwork 3

Powers/Devices -
Device(Summon Minion) - Ranks 2*
Extras: Heroic(+1)
Flaws: Attitude: Unfriendly (-2)

Device(Summon Minion)x2 - Ranks 6*
Extras: Heroic(+1)

Device(Summon Minion) - Ranks 4*
Extras: Heroic(+1)
Flaws: Attitude: Indifferent(-1)

*3pp/rank

Skills -
Handle Animal: 20
Medicine: 10
Ride: 20
Survival: 10

I can probably drop equipment 1, All-out Attack, and Defensive attack, for the extra 3 points

BobVosh
2009-01-25, 07:25 AM
Currently working on my "pokemon trainer" I think he is turning out okay, but since some of you guys are better with the system can you check over my work. The GM let us build at power level 15

Dash Gettum -
Power Level: 15
Points: 225
Size: Medium

Abilities -
Strength: 24(10+14)
Dexterity: 26(10+16)
Constitution: 30(10+20)
Intelligence: 24(10+14)
Wisdom: 28(10+18)
Charisma: 26(10+16)

Saves -
Toughness: +10
Fortitude: +10
Reflex: +8
Will: +9

Combat -
Defense: 15 Flat-Footed: 10
Initiative: +8
Attack: +10

Feats -
Equipment 1
Animal Empathy
Defensive Attack
All-Out Attack
Teamwork 3

Powers/Devices -
Device(Summon Minion) - Ranks 2*
Extras: Heroic(+1)
Flaws: Attitude: Unfriendly (-2)

Device(Summon Minion)x2 - Ranks 6*
Extras: Heroic(+1)

Device(Summon Minion) - Ranks 4*
Extras: Heroic(+1)
Flaws: Attitude: Indifferent(-1)

*3pp/rank

Skills -
Handle Animal: 20
Medicine: 10
Ride: 20
Survival: 10

I can probably drop equipment 1, All-out Attack, and Defensive attack, for the extra 3 points

So...your pokemon don't like you? Noob trainer :P

Nightson
2009-01-25, 08:12 AM
Currently working on my "pokemon trainer" I think he is turning out okay, but since some of you guys are better with the system can you check over my work. The GM let us build at power level 15

Dash Gettum -
Power Level: 15
Points: 225
Size: Medium

Abilities -
Strength: 24(10+14)
Dexterity: 26(10+16)
Constitution: 30(10+20)
Intelligence: 24(10+14)
Wisdom: 28(10+18)
Charisma: 26(10+16)

Saves -
Toughness: +10
Fortitude: +10
Reflex: +8
Will: +9

Combat -
Defense: 15 Flat-Footed: 10
Initiative: +8
Attack: +10

Feats -
Equipment 1
Animal Empathy
Defensive Attack
All-Out Attack
Teamwork 3

Powers/Devices -
Device(Summon Minion) - Ranks 2*
Extras: Heroic(+1)
Flaws: Attitude: Unfriendly (-2)

Device(Summon Minion)x2 - Ranks 6*
Extras: Heroic(+1)

Device(Summon Minion) - Ranks 4*
Extras: Heroic(+1)
Flaws: Attitude: Indifferent(-1)

*3pp/rank

Skills -
Handle Animal: 20
Medicine: 10
Ride: 20
Survival: 10

I can probably drop equipment 1, All-out Attack, and Defensive attack, for the extra 3 points

1. You didn't spend all your power points

2. You've sunk a lot of points into raising your ability scores and your attack bonuses. I mean, you can punch for +7 damage, but this is worthless at power level 15.

3. You are new to the ways of the MnM for your character does not have an array

Device 12 (Pokeballs) Hard to lose (60 points) [48+6 pp]
-Summon 20 (Heroic) Charizard
-Summon 17 (Horde, Progressionx6) Dance of the Hundred Pikachus
- blah blah, four other summon things/pokemon go here, more if you shift some pp around

4. I have destroyed 2 planets at powerlevel 15 (Whee for asteroids) and wiped out most of an space armada by myself. Your character is supposed to be powerful, so don't worry if he is (Pokemon Trainers not normally being renowned for their planet smashing skills)

Edit: Heh, I think I'm going to have to build this character now. I want to give Charizard this power
Burn the World Blast 15 (Burst, Full-round Action, Progressionx20)
This attack has a radius of 22,000 miles. That's just fun. This will make everything on the surface of a planet 1-1.25 earth sizes make a saving throw at DC 30.

shadow_archmagi
2009-01-25, 08:31 AM
OK guys! We have a discuss-who-what-how-where-this-game-is-going-to-happen thread now!

http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?p=5694937#post5694937

Nerd-o-rama
2009-01-25, 03:24 PM
So...your pokemon don't like you? Noob trainer :PHe's obviously playing the guy from the TV show. His dudes never listen to him.

But yeah, you don't need ability scores and attack bonus at all to emulate a pokemon trainer, so you probably want to drop those and pump up your summons to do your fighting for you. The summons should also probably be on an array. Focus on beefing them up - it's more point efficient and fitting with the flavor than beefing yourself up.

NPCMook
2009-01-25, 07:25 PM
1. You didn't spend all your power points

2. You've sunk a lot of points into raising your ability scores and your attack bonuses. I mean, you can punch for +7 damage, but this is worthless at power level 15.

3. You are new to the ways of the MnM for your character does not have an array

Device 12 (Pokeballs) Hard to lose (60 points) [48+6 pp]
-Summon 20 (Heroic) Charizard
-Summon 17 (Horde, Progressionx6) Dance of the Hundred Pikachus
- blah blah, four other summon things/pokemon go here, more if you shift some pp around

4. I have destroyed 2 planets at powerlevel 15 (Whee for asteroids) and wiped out most of an space armada by myself. Your character is supposed to be powerful, so don't worry if he is (Pokemon Trainers not normally being renowned for their planet smashing skills)

Edit: Heh, I think I'm going to have to build this character now. I want to give Charizard this power
Burn the World Blast 15 (Burst, Full-round Action, Progressionx20)
This attack has a radius of 22,000 miles. That's just fun. This will make everything on the surface of a planet 1-1.25 earth sizes make a saving throw at DC 30.

Its just a goofy non-serious game all of the characters are really out there, We have a Star Trek fan who owns a Space Ship, Captain Cultist who is trying to take control of the world for Chaos, Gudda who is Fatman, And Ms. Cosmic Charisma who can't do anything and has 3 Minions who I don't even know what they do(He bought them Via the Feat)


He's obviously playing the guy from the TV show. His dudes never listen to him.

But yeah, you don't need ability scores and attack bonus at all to emulate a pokemon trainer, so you probably want to drop those and pump up your summons to do your fighting for you. The summons should also probably be on an array. Focus on beefing them up - it's more point efficient and fitting with the flavor than beefing yourself up.

He's a parody of the character "Dash Gettum - Elemental Animal Trainer Extraordinaire, Gotta Obtain the Lot of 'Em" mostly I was low on points and trying to build at least 4 Animals with various element controls, and those were all named goofy-like "Flaming Lizard, Shocking Mouse, Tera Tortoise"

kpenguin
2009-01-25, 11:31 PM
Question: are improvised weapons (like throwing cars, using light posts as clubs, etc.) limited by the PL restrictions?

Beleriphon
2009-02-21, 07:31 PM
How are equipment bonuses supposed to apply? Some of the pre-made NPCs have equipment that drives them over their power level (Criminal's pistol, thug's pistol and leather jacket) and the equipment section says that armour doesn't stack with other bonuses, yet all the NPCs with armour have it stack with at least their Con bonus. Is there a FAQ on this?

Armour is just the Protection power bought as equipment, all bonuses add together so long as they don't exceed their power level. Keep in mind that that power level of an NPC is set by the high of total defense bonus (Defense score + toughness save) / 2 or (Attack bonus + damange bonus) / 2.

So Green Arrow as an NPC with a +12 to hit with his bow and a +4 bonus is a PL8 character regardless of how many points you spend to make him. To make a standard PL 8 character however you only have 120 points to spend on all abilities and traits, and you have to stay within the power limits.


Question: are improvised weapons (like throwing cars, using light posts as clubs, etc.) limited by the PL restrictions?

Check the improvised weapons rules on page 162 of the core rules. It doesn't seem to be limited by the PL of game, largely because they are temporary implements at best. Most of the time they deal damage as the wielder's strength bonus, and then are destroyed. So the only real reason to wield a street lamp is cinematic effect, possibly reach, or because you convince the GM it does a damage type other than your normal melee attack.