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afroakuma
2009-01-17, 10:42 PM
Just about everything needs Reflex saves, and most things will need Fortitude for one reason or another.

But Will... it seems all effects that I can find requiring Will saveshas the [Mind-Affecting] descriptor. Similarly, it seems constructs essentially don't require their Will saves.

Can anyone give me examples of effects requiring Will saves that constructs are not immune to or that do not have the [Mind-Affecting] descriptor?

Glimbur
2009-01-17, 10:44 PM
Glitterdust. Slow. Illusions. Lots of silly Will Negates: harmless stuff like Invisibility and Veil. Telekinesis. Scrying. Disjunction. Silence.

tyckspoon
2009-01-17, 10:49 PM
Slow, Glitterdust, Bestow Curse, Chaos Hammer, Banishment, Soul Bind.. the connecting thread, of course, being that none of these are Enchantments or Illusions.

Saph
2009-01-18, 06:26 AM
Glitterdust and Slow are the big ones. They may be only two spells, but they're two of the most popular core spells around, and they're nasty.

At higher levels, there's stuff out there that's much worse. The violet prismatic effect tosses you to another plane on a failed Will save, as does Plane Shift, and then there's Elemental Maw from the Spell Compendium.

- Saph

1of3
2009-01-18, 06:43 AM
(Psionic) Time Hop.

Spiryt
2009-01-18, 07:03 AM
Just about everything needs Reflex saves,

?

Never noticed that. Reflex save is mainly used for traps and damage spells/abilities. Trample is one other thing I can think of, although it's also "just" damage.

hamishspence
2009-01-18, 07:31 AM
Trample comes under something that you could theoretically twist out from under- minimizing damage, hence, reflex.

Eloel
2009-01-18, 07:48 AM
?

Never noticed that. Reflex save is mainly used for traps and damage spells/abilities. Trample is one other thing I can think of, although it's also "just" damage.

Web... It doesn't give a single damage, so it can't be 'just' damage.

hamishspence
2009-01-18, 08:05 AM
Reflex: If its remotely plausible that quick reactions and physical flexibility combined will mitigate or avoid the problem, whatever it is, reflex should come in.

Web- You jump or flex at the right moment and it fails to grab you.