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Shiny, Bearer of the Pokystick
2006-10-08, 09:34 PM
As outlined in the Evaluation Methodology thread, this thread is for discussing, editing and evaluation of the Panlid Champion base class for Project C.U.T.E.; the Champion is designed to perform a meelee role, with a degree of independence from the typical model of a fighter's need for expensive (and permanent) equipment.

So, without further ado:
Panlid Champion
Many kids, confronted with the challenges and trials of a hazardous world, seek to emulate their heroes or rely on their existing traits to see them through.
Some, however, see the world as a vast trove of potentialities, any one of which can be turned into a weapon, a shield, or almost anything else one requires.
The world is a Panlid Champion's toolbox; everything in it is effectively their tool.
Adventures:
Panlid champions adventure, more often than not, to expand their repertoire of items. Many also choose to support their friends or allies in anything they undertake, reasoning that gathering friends is as important as gathering anything else.
Characteristics:
Panlid Champions are combat characters whose primary strength lies in their ability to attack even without their normal equipment, creating new and adaptable weaponry on-the-spot. Panlid champions sometimes also strike somewhat faster than normal warriors, and have a degree of expertise in scouting.
Alignment:
Panlid Champions may be of any alignment. Evil panlid champions are destructive, cruel, and acquisitive, while good panlid champions are mighty forces for creation and virtue.
Religion:
Panlid Champions are a diverse bunch, and their religious preferences reflect that. Almost any divine power one cares to name can count a Champion or two among his or her or its followers.
Background:
Most Panlid Champions began life inventing, creating, and taking apart, putting back together in pleasing shapes, and they continue this practice throughout their careers.
Few Panlid champions are taught their particular abilities; most simply discover their aptitude on their own.
Races:
A member of any race that produces reasonably intelligent specimens can be a Panlid Champion. No single race or type of creature is more or less likely to be one.
Other classes:
Panlid Champions work well in unusual situations, and are thus often valued by characters of other classes for their quick thinking and adaptability. Similarly, Champions frequently find that the guile, potency, and skills of other classes are vital to their success.
Role:
The Panlid Champion serves as a support combatant for more hardy members of the party, able to be of great utility in unusual situations where other classes might be helpless.

Game Rule Information
Abilities:
Strength affects the Champion's combat prowess, while dexterity is vital to their scouting and sneaking skills. Intelligence is perhaps more vital to the class than dexterity, however, as a goodly number of the classe's features depend on it.
Alignment: Any.
Hit Die: d8.

Class Skills:
The Panlid Champion's class skills (and the key ability for each skill) are: Balance (dex), Climb (str), Concentration (con), Construct (int),Disable Device (int), Hide (dex), Hold It (con), Imagine (wis), Jump (str), Listen (wis), Move Silently (dex), Search (Int), Sense Motive (wis), Spot (wis), Swim (str), Tumble (dex), and Use Magic Device (Cha).
Skill points at first level: (4+int modifier)x4.
Skill points at each additional level: 4+ int modifier.

Class Features
All of the following are class features of the Panlid Champion:
Weapon and Armor Proficiency:
Panlid champions have no proficiency with any premanufactured weapon or armor, or with shields.

AC bonus:
Beggining at first level, While wearing only armor or clothing they have Put Together themselves, a Panlid Champion gains a bonus to armor class equal to their intelligence bonus. In addition, they gain a +1 insight bonus to armor class at 5th level. This bonus increases every five levels of Champion thereafter, to a maximum of +4 at twentieth level.

Take Apart:
The Panlid Champion can, through the application of their particular brand of entropic ingenuity, break, disassemble, or otherwise break down any inanimate object. This includes standards forms of items, such as clothing or ordinary weaponry; it also includes furniture or even small portions of a building. Particularly intrepid Panlid Champions, or those from cultures that have hunting traditions, may even take apart the bodies of their fallen foes (having heard that old saw about using every part of the buffalo and taken it to heart). Animate objects or still-animate creatures of any kind are not subject to this ability.

An object that has been taken apart is useless for its original purpose, though it may thereafter be put back together by the Panlid Champion who disassembled it, or by any other Champion; such an item can also be repaired by any creature with the requisite skill and expertise.

Take Apart may be used to disable traps; the Champion adds their ranks in both Disable Device and Construct to such a check, and it automatically is counted as super-duper-complicated (+15 DC).

In order to Take Apart an object, the Champion makes a special Construct check against a DC of 10+Durability+Complexity+Size.

{table]

Durability
Example Materials
Modifier



Diaphonous
Cheesecloth, tissue Paper, exceptionally fine china.
-10



Flimsy
Ordinary paper, light fabrics, procelain, poorly fired clay.
-5



Unflimsy
Thick cardboard, good ceramics, thick fabrics, light woods, most glass, ordinary skin.
+0



Tough
Particle Board, very thick or tightly woven fabrics, light scales or hide.
+5



Super-tough
Thick wood, normal tile, thin or bendy metals, very thick hide or heavy scales.
+10



Super-duper-tough
Very thick wood, normal metallic objects, exceptional materials, carapace or extremely tough scales.
+15


[/table]

{table]

Complexity
Example Items
Modifier


Super-simple
Single-component items; board, sheet, rod, or rope.
-10



Simple
Items with few or easily seperable components; beaded necklace, book, scissors.
-5



Unsimple
Moderate number of components or components are well-fused; furniture, jacket, creatures with very simple anatomies.
+0



Complicated
Many components and/or components are well-fused; lamp, aerosol can, can opener, normal creature.
+5



Super-complicated
Very complex mixture of components; television, simple clock, outdated computer, blender, elaborate wedding dress, highly evolved creature.
+10



Super-duper-complicated
Almost ridiculously complex items; cuckoo clock, most other clockwork items, intricate jewelry, abberations and outsiders.
+15


[/table]

A Panlid Champion can disassemble an object one or two sizes smaller than him or herself without penalty; however, in the case of an object of the champion's size or larger, or objects smaller than two categories smaller than the champion, a penalty of -5 is assessed for every size category of deviation from this 'ideal' range. A champion cannot Take Apart objects over one size category larger than their size, or objects smaller than fine.

Taking Apart an object usually requires ten minutes per five points of DC over ten, and can only be undertaken outside of combat.
A Panlid Champion can attempt to Take Apart an object in combat, but if he does, he takes a -10 penalty to the DC and must make a concentration check if damaged in process with a DC of 10+ damage dealt to continue the breaking-up process; the process requires a number of rounds equal to the number of ten-minute increments it would ordinarily require.
If the DC for Taking Apart an object in combat would be over 30, the object cannot be Taken Apart in combat.





Put Together:
A Panlid Champion isn't merely a destroyer of objects; they also rely on their skills to help create entirely new and unusual combinations of strange components to aid them in their travels.

A Panlid Champion can make a special construct check to Put Together any item he has previously used his Take Apart ability on, against a DC of 10+Complexity+Difference+Size; in so doing, he or she reassembles, repurposes, or otherwise modifies the component or components to suit his or her needs.

The hardness and HP of a Put Together item are equal to those of the item they were taken from, even if they are constituted of only a part of that item.

Putting Together an item takes the same amount of time, and is subject to the same conditions, as Taking Apart the item the new object was made from, both in and out of combat.

In the case of weapons, armor, or shields (or any other item where proficiency is required for full use) the Panlid Champion is proficient with any item he has Put Together.

For feats that require a specific item, such as weapon focus feats, or class features that require a signature item, such as the abilities of a Kensai, the Panlid Champion can choose to utilize a nonspecific Put Together item of the appropriate type.

Any Put Together item must be of the same or smaller size category as the Taken Apart item it was derived from; that is, Putting Together always subtracts mass, never increases it.

The difficulty of putting together an item is dependent on three factors; the size of the intended item, its complexity, and the relative difference between the final product and the item it was taken from.

A Panlid Champion can Put Together an item two size categories smaller than himself at no penalty; for every size category either larger or smaller than this ideal, assess a +5 penalty to the DC to Put Together the item.

{table]

Difference
Example Conversions
Modifier



The same
Big flat board to shield, blanket to cape.
-10



Sort of the same
Bucket to helm, muffin pan to shield, sweatshirt to belt.
-5



Almost the same
2x4 to sword, book covers and twine to breastplate.
+0



Different
Keychains to spiked chain, unrelated wood and ceramic bits to armor, several flattish items to shield.
+5



Super-different
Soft or yeilding items to armor or shield, fragile items to weaponry, plain to ornate.
+10



Super-duper-different
Complex multi-part item to single-part item, sticks to full plate..
+15


[/table]

{table]

Complexity
Example Items
Modifier


Super-simple
Shields, simple cloak w/out clasp, quarterstaff or club.
-10



Simple
Spear, crude axe, buckethelm, simple belt.
-5



Unsimple
Swordlike object, crude breastplate, simple necklace, crude circlet.
+0



Complicated
Reach-weapon type object, simple armor, most clothing.
+5



Super-complicated
Unusual or exotic weapon, moderately complex armor, some clothing, boots.
+10



Super-duper-complicated
Elaborate jewelry, ornate helm, very complex armor such as full plate, very unusual weaponry or other items..
+15


[/table]




Put Together-Thingy:
A first-level Panlid Champion can utilize their Put Together ability to create light weapons and armor and small shields.

In order to create a light weapon, he must first take an item or piece of an item from his Take Apart skill that can be comfortably held in one hand; he must then use his Put Together skill to convert it into a weapon.
Any such weapon has the following statistics:
1d4 damage, usually bludgeoning, sometimes piercing or slashing if appropriate.
x2 critical modifier.

In order to create light armor, he must first take components from any item that can, when taken together, cover at least most of his body, and are not too heavy; cardboard or thick cloth is appropriate, while metal or ceramics is not. Such armor always has the following statistics:
+3 armor bonus
Maximum dexterity bonus +5
Armor check penalty -1
Arcane spell failure chance 10%


In order to create a small shield, the champion must take a component or item that can be held at one side comfortably and cover a significant but not enormous area. Such a sheild always has these statistics:
+1 shield bonus
Armor check penalty -1
Arcane spell failure chance 5%



Put Together- Thingamajig:
A sixth-level Panlid Champion can use his Put Together skill on objects he has disassembled with Take Apart, and so create One-handed weapons, medium armor, large shields, and throwing weapons.

In order to create a One-handed weapon, he must first take a component or item of weaponlike shape and size that can comfortably be held in one hand. Such a weapon always has the following statistics:
1d8 damage, usually bludgeoning, may be piercing or slashing if appropriate.
Critical range of 19-20/x2 critical modifier.

In order to create armor, the Champion must find an item or parts of an item that are rigid and tough and covers at least most of his body when taken together, and can be carried by him; such armor always has the following statistics:
+5 armor bonus.
Maximum dexterity bonus +3.
Armor check penalty -4.
Arcane spell failure chance 25%.

In order to create a large shield, an item or items must be procured that can be used to cover a large portion of the Champion's flank and can, with some construction, be carried strapped to one arm. Such shields have the following characteristics:
+2 shield bonus.
Armor check penalty -2.
Arcane spell failure chance 15%.

In order to create a thrown weapon, the Champion must find a small, light item he can fling with accuracy and distance. Such a weapon has the following statistics:
1d3 damage, usually piercing, sometimes bludgeoning or slashing as appropriate.
Critical range 19-20/x2 critical modifier.
Range increment twenty feet.


Put Together- Thingummy:
A Panlid Champion of twelfth level or higher can use his Put Together skill on an item he has previously Taken Apart to create two-handed weapons, heavy armor, and tower sheilds.

In order to create a two-handed weapon, the Champion must find a large, intimidatingly weaponish object, such as a broom handle, that he can hold in two hands; he may then Put Together this item into a two-handed weapon with the following statistics:
2d6 damage, usually bludgeoning but may be piercing or slashing.
Critical range 19-20/x3 critical modifier.

In order to create heavy armor, exceptionally durable items or components in large quantity must be procured; upon doing so, the Champion may create armor with the following statistics:
+8 armor bonus.
Maximum dexterity bonus +2.
Armor check penalty -4.
Arcane spell failure chance 40%.

In order to create a tower shield, the Champion must find a very large, flat, sturdy object. This object can then be remade into a shield with the following statistics:
+4 shield bonus.
Maximum dexterity bonus +2.
Armor check penalty -8.
Arcane spell failure chance 40%.



Put Together- Whatchamacalit:
At sixth level, and thereafter, a Panlid Champion can choose to purpose any item that suits him, and can reasonably be converted into such, into an item of the following types; headband, helmet, hat, phylactery, eye lenses, goggles, cloak, cape, or mantle, amulet/brooch/medallion, robe, shirt, vest, bracer, gloves or gauntlets, belt, or boots. The Panlid Champion can purpose only one item to any given body-slot at a time, and is subject to all rules regarding multiple items-per-slot as usual.




They Always Fit:
A Panlid Champion gains the ability, once every even-numbered level, to enhance any one type of equipment he carries by investing a part of his spirit in a part of his body to create a permanent magical emanation.
He essentially gains one imbuing 'point' at each even-numbered level, and must spend it that level. Any item thereafter worn in that slot gains the benefits of the imbued ability; if no item is worn there, the benefit is inactive.
A Panlid Champion can imbue the same slot no more than five times, and cannot imbue the same slot multiple times consecutively.
The effect depends on what kind of slot he chooses to imbue:
The helmet slot can be imbued to provide a bonus to any one mental ability score (maximum +5), or provide the character with darkvision out to 90ft (or 120ft if they already possess darkvision). Each use of the ability to imbue the slot can raise the ability score bonus by one, or add an additional ability; for instance, imbuing the slot four times could result in a +3 bonus to intelligence and darkvision.
Imbuing the goggle slot can grant the champion a +5 bonus on checks to disbelieve illusions (maximum +15), or the ability to see invisible or ethereal creatures; either of the latter two abilities is usable 3/day, and lasts for three rounds.
Imbuing the amulet slot can grant a +1 bonus to AC per use (maximum +8 ), or allow the champion to heal 1d6hp 1/day, increasing by 1d6 per use of the imbue ability (this ability can only be used on the champion himself).
Imbuing the armor slot or robe slot can grant a bonus to AC as the amulet slot can, or a +2 bonus on any one saving throw per use of the ability, or elemental resistance 5 per use of the ability.
Imbuing the glove and bracer metaslot can have varied effects; either 1d6 bonus damage of any one elemental type (maximum +3d6), a bonus to attacks roll of +2 per use (maximum +6), or the ability to make one extra attack per round at a -2 penalty per 10 points of BAB in addition to all normally granted attacks (this special ability costs two consecutive uses of the imbue ability).
Imbuing the belt slot can grant a bonus to any one physical ability score of +1 per use of imbue (maximum +5).
Imbuing the boot slot can grant an enhancement of +10ft to movement (maximum +30ft).

A champion can also wear magic items enchanted in the usual way in his imbued slots; if he does, the normal effect of the item and any applicable imbued slot effect are both active and any bonuses to the same ability, skill, or effect stack; if the abilities of the item and the slot would cancel each other out, the Champion chooses which is active. The slot effect is unique to the champion, being in essence a magical emanation produced by his body, and thus the item loses the benefits of the imbued ability if the Champion him or herself is not wearing it.



I Made it Special:
For purposes of overcoming damage reduction, a first-level Champion's Put Together weapon items are considered to have an enhancement bonus of +1.
In addition, if a Put Together weapon has even a small quantity of a special metal, such as silver or cold iron, it is considered to be composed of that metal for purposes of overcoming damage reduction.


{table]

Level
BaB
Fort Save
Ref Save
Will Save
Special


1st
+1
+2
+2
+0
Take Apart, Put Together-Thingy, AC Bonus, I Made it Special.


2nd
+2
+3
+3
+0
Always Fit (1st slot).


3rd
+3
+3
+3
+1
-


4th
+4
+4
+4
+1
Always Fit (2nd slot).


5th
+5
+4
+4
+1
AC Bonus +1.


6th
+6/+1
+5
+5
+2
Put Together-Thingamajig, Put Together- Whatchamacalit, Always Fit (3rd slot)


7th
+7/+2
+5
+5
+2
-


8th
+8/+3
+6
+6
+2
Always Fit (4th slot).


9th
+9/+4
+6
+6
+3
-


10th
+10/+5
+7
+7
+3
AC Bonus +2, Always Fit (5th slot).


11th
+11/+6/+1
+7
+7
+3
-


12th
+12/+7/+2
+8
+8
+4
Put Together-Thingamummy, Always Fit (6th slot).


13th
+13/+8/+3
+8
+8
+4
-


14th
+14/+9/+4
+9
+9
+4
Always Fit (7th slot).


15th
+15/+10/+5
+9
+9
+5
AC Bonus +3.


16th
+16/+11/+6/+1
+10
+10
+5
Always Fit (8th slot).l


17th
+17/+12/+7/+2
+10
+10
+5
-


18th
+18/+13/+8/+3
+11
+11
+6
Always Fit (9th slot)


19th
+19/+14/+9/+4
+11
+11
+6
-


20th
+20/+15/+10/+5
+12
+12
+6
AC Bonus +4, Always Fit (10th slot).

[/table]

No longer a Work In Progress. COMMENTS PLZ.

Elrosth
2006-10-08, 10:17 PM
Panlid Champion
Many kids, confronted with the challenges and trials of a hazardous world, seek to emulate their heroes or ely on their existing traits to see them through.

spelling error.

Why does the disassemble ability use the object's AC in the check? Is it to take into account the difficulty of working with smaller objects, or is there something else I'm not thinking of? I like the concept on smaller objects, but technically that means it would be extremely easy to take apart a house. Not only that, but it would be completely useless when he was done, and it would only take about 6 seconds to do so. Would you want to put a cap on the size, or redefine "object"?

edit: also, would he require tools for certain objects? take the penalty for not having the proper tools but not absolutely need them? or is this just sans-tools? It seems to me the kid might have a bit of trouble taking apart an engine without a wrench or something.

Fax Celestis
2006-10-08, 10:23 PM
Quick notes:

Skills: No Imagine? Also, 4+Int seems a bit much for a frontliner.

Disassemble: A check versus an AC is...well, not very equal. At low levels, he won't be able to take apart anything, and at high ones he'll be taking apart Kobolds without needing to roll. A check versus a check would be better.

Medium Purposed Items: Don't use Shuriken, they suck. Use thrown Small daggers (d3, 19-20/x2)

Major Purposed Items: I'd like to be able to make a reach item, but perhaps that'd be better as a [Repurposing] feat.

Imbuing: Boot slots should probably be in increments of 10 feet, and could potentially grant haste after the +30.

Elrosth
2006-10-08, 10:26 PM
Well at any level, he should be able to take apart a kobold, provided the kobold was inanimate and composed of more than one piece. That could consist of undressing a dead kobold, or chopping up a dead kobold, or pulling apart a dead kobold limb from limb, or all sorts of other fun stuff.

Shiny, Bearer of the Pokystick
2006-10-08, 10:41 PM
Hooboy....okay, not sure if I'm going to get to this tonight/right now, I'm pretty busy tonight- but I will have it ready soon.

Fax, Imagine will be added to the class skills. It makes sense to me.

I may halve the skill points. I'm just not sure where he'd need them at the moment...originally I think disassembly and repurposing required a check, whence the skill points, but as written now, they don't.

For disassemble, what kind of check did you have in mind?

This is probably my second most unfinished class....a lot of it's very vague. So any suggestions for how anything actually works would be great.

Medium purposed items as small throwing daggers works for me. Reach weapons...I'm considering. I'll get back to you on that.

Boots- if nobody else has a problem with upping the power of that, I certainly don't.

Elrosth;
Hm...well, I was thinking something about taking hardness and HP of the object into account, but...I think I'm going to wait and see what kind of check we might be using for Disassemble first.

We may possibly have to redefine 'object', anyways.
Maybe make it anything smaller or the same size as the champion.

Elrosth
2006-10-09, 05:22 AM
How about we make checks based on the complexity of the object, and limit the object to a certain range of sizes? Maybe even the object wouldn't need to be a certain size, but the disassembled component would be. In the aformentioned house example, he couldn't destroy the house but he could pull up shingles from the roof and use them as throwing stars.

<_<
>_>
<_<

...definitely didn't do that as a kid myself...

Lets just say we limit the resulting component of the thing to the character's size or smaller. Actually, there should be a minimum range too, kids shouldn't be disassembling computer chips. Lets say start at the character's size, and allow it to drop x number of ranges. Then a regular child could disassemble <insert rather small object>, but the child of some bigger race couldn't. Darn those thick fingers...

As for the check, go for complexity. Maybe take the complexity of the item he wants to turn it into rather than the complexity of the actual object, with the check representing his ability to obtain appropriate parts for what he wants, not just random pieces of things? I can remove a table leg too, but it doesn't help me make a shield. To define complexity, consider the mechanical difference between a crossbow and a quarterstaff. I don't know how you'd translate that to a number, but you get the idea.

Once you have that set up, modify the check by the complexity of the original object. If you really wanted to get complicated, you could have two modifiers. One would be the number of pieces the thing has, the more complex the more pieces and therefore the more likely something will be workable for repurposing. The other could be how intricate the pieces are, making it harder to work with and figure out how to disassemble.

Ugh. I should go to bed. Feel free to comment, I'll give the concept another go tomorrow. Hopefully by then I'll be able to lay it out coherently.

Yuki Akuma
2006-10-09, 09:18 AM
I don't think you quite understand what the kid is doing here. He isn't actually making anything; he's taking stuff apart and pretending it's something else altogether.

belboz
2006-10-09, 12:46 PM
Two quick questions and quick point:

What's an "imagination bonus"? I mean, I think I can guess, but we haven't used the term anywhere else, have we? I'm sure there are a number of bonuses we've had for other classes that could count as imagination bonuses; if we're going to make it a type, we should make it official, and possibly specify it for those other classes.

You can repurpose items that you (or another Panlid Champion) already purposed, right? I gather also that it's the same process--two consecutive full-round actions. But wanted to make sure.

The quick point: From context, it looks like you can imbue the same slot multiple times, to get multiple abilities or to increase bonuses (to the given limit). But that took me a bit to puzzle out; it should probably be made explicit that you can imbue the same slot as many times as you want.


Edit:

Actually, another possible issue. I don't know if this is a problem, but it seems to have potential.

Let's suppose a PC starts with 18 strength, and uses their "Imbue Miscellaneous Slot" ability to add a strength bonus to their belt slot, every level between 2 and 6. At 6, they purpose a belt and wear it. Now, that's 18 + 1 (standard bump) + 5 = 24 strength, at level 6. That's a problem, no?

Perhaps, in addition to the +5 maximum, ability bonuses should be capped at character level/3?

Oh, and one other question: Are purposed items usable by the PC only? Or can a PC make some armor for his friend the Storybook Hero?

Shiny, Bearer of the Pokystick
2006-10-09, 06:42 PM
Right, well. New version of Disassemble,(calling it "Take Apart" now) first:


Take Apart:
The Panlid Champion can, through the application of their particular brand of entropic ingenuity, break, disassemble, or otherwise break down any inanimate object. This includes standards forms of items, such as clothing or ordinary weaponry; it also includes furniture or even small portions of a building. Particularly intrepid Panlid Champions, or those from cultures that have hunting traditions, may even take apart the bodies of their fallen foes (having heard that old saw about using every part of the buffalo and taken it to heart). Animate objects or still-animate creatures of any kind are not subject to this ability.

An object that has been taken apart is useless for its original purpose, though it may thereafter be put back together by the Panlid Champion who disassembled it, or by any other Champion; such an item can also be repaired by any creature with the requisite skill and expertise.

In order to Take Apart an object, the Champion makes a special Construct check against a DC of 10+Durability+Complexity+Size.

{table]

Durability
Example Materials
Modifier



Diaphonous
Cheesecloth, tissue Paper, exceptionally fine china.
-10



Flimsy
Ordinary paper, light fabrics, procelain, poorly fired clay.
-5



Unflimsy
Thick cardboard, good ceramics, thick fabrics, light woods, most glass, ordinary skin.
+0



Tough
Particle Board, very thick or tightly woven fabrics, light scales or hide.
+5



Super-tough
Thick wood, normal tile, thin or bendy metals, very thick hide or heavy scales.
+10



Super-duper-tough
Very thick wood, normal metallic objects, exceptional materials, carapace or extremely tough scales.
+15


[/table]

{table]

Complexity
Example Items
Modifier


Super-simple
Single-component items; board, sheet, rod, or rope.
-10



Simple
Items with few or easily seperable components; beaded necklace, book, scissors.
-5



Unsimple
Moderate number of components or components are well-fused; furniture, jacket, creatures with very simple anatomies.
+0



Complicated
Many components and/or components are well-fused; lamp, aerosol can, can opener, normal creature.
+5



Super-complicated
Very complex mixture of components; television, simple clock, outdated computer, blender, elaborate wedding dress, highly evolved creature.
+10



Super-duper-complicated
Almost ridiculously complex items; cuckoo clock, most other clockwork items, intricate jewelry, abberations and outsiders.
+15


[/table]

A Panlid Champion can disassemble an object one or two sizes smaller than him or herself without penalty; however, in the case of an object of the champion's size or larger, or objects smaller than two categories smaller than the champion, a penalty of -5 is assessed for every size category of deviation from this 'ideal' range. A champion cannot Take Apart objects over one size category larger than their size, or objects smaller than fine.

Taking Apart an object usually requires ten minutes per five points of DC over ten, and can only be undertaken outside of combat.
A Panlid Champion can attempt to Take Apart an object in combat, but if he does, he takes a -10 penalty to the DC and must make a concentration check if damaged in process with a DC of 10+ damage dealt to continue the breaking-up process; the process requires a number of rounds equal to the number of ten-minute increments it would ordinarily require.
If the DC for Taking Apart an object in combat would be over 30, the object cannot be Taken Apart in combat.



Play Example:
Stevie the Panlid Champion finds a cuckoo clock and decides to make it into a helmet, with the cuckoo provided wings for the sides and the clock's "roof" servnig as the helmet's crown.

The clock is super-duper-complicated, and many of its components prove to be made of thin wire or metal, and thus are super-tough; thus, the DC modifier for complexity is +15, and for durability is +10.

Stevie is size small, and the clock (being of the very large grandfather variety, perhaps) is size tiny (one size category smaller). He therefore does not have to modify the DC for size.

The DC for Stevie to Take Apart the clock is 35; extremely difficult, even for a high-level character, but not entirely impossible.

Stevie will require at least fifty minutes to Take Apart the clock outside of combat.

Elrosth
2006-10-09, 07:01 PM
I don't think you quite understand what the kid is doing here. He isn't actually making anything; he's taking stuff apart and pretending it's something else altogether.


I didn't say he was. However, it is easier to pretend something is something else if it looks similar.

Shiny, Bearer of the Pokystick
2006-10-09, 07:44 PM
I didn't say he was. However, it is easier to pretend something is something else if it looks similar.

Also.....Panlid Champions actually do some constructing of things. I'll be clarifying this soon.

Shiny, Bearer of the Pokystick
2006-10-09, 09:50 PM
New version of "New Purpose", because I loathe the old one passionately and I need to bring it in line with the new Take Apart.


Put Together:
A Panlid Champion isn't merely a destroyer of objects; they also rely on their skills to help create entirely new and unusual combinations of strange components to aid them in their travels.

A Panlid Champion can make a special construct check to Put Together any item he has previously used his Take Apart ability on, against a DC of 10+Complexity+Difference+Size; in so doing, he or she reassembles, repurposes, or otherwise modifies the component or components to suit his or her needs.

The hardness and HP of a Put Together item are equal to those of the item they were taken from, even if they are constituted of only a part of that item.

Putting Together an item takes the same amount of time, and is subject to the same conditions, as Taking Apart the item the new object was made from, both in and out of combat.

In the case of weapons, armor, or shields (or any other item where proficiency is required for full use) the Panlid Champion is proficient with any item he has Put Together.

At any one time, a Panlid Champion cannot possess purposed items equal to more than his intelligence bonus. Ammunition (and any other item that is described in unit quantities larger than one, such as a thrown weapon) does not count against this limit.

For feats that require a specific item, such as weapon focus feats, or class features that require a signature item, such as the abilities of a Kensai, the Panlid Champion can choose to utilize a nonspecific Put Together item of the appropriate type.

Any Put Together item must be of the same or smaller size category as the Taken Apart item it was derived from; that is, Putting Together always subtracts mass, never increases it.

The difficulty of putting together an item is dependent on three factors; the size of the intended item, its complexity, and the relative difference between the final product and the item it was taken from.

A Panlid Champion can Put Together an item two size categories smaller than himself at no penalty; for every size category either larger or smaller than this ideal, assess a +5 penalty to the DC to Put Together the item.

{table]

Difference
Example Conversions
Modifier



The same
Big flat board to shield, blanket to cape.
-10



Sort of the same
Bucket to helm, muffin pan to shield, sweatshirt to belt.
-5



Almost the same
2x4 to sword, book covers and twine to breastplate.
+0



Different
Keychains to spiked chain, unrelated wood and ceramic bits to armor, several flattish items to shield.
+5



Super-different
Soft or yeilding items to armor or shield, fragile items to weaponry, plain to ornate.
+10



Super-duper-different
Complex multi-part item to single-part item, sticks to full plate..
+15


[/table]

{table]

Complexity
Example Items
Modifier


Super-simple
Shields, simple cloak w/out clasp, quarterstaff or club.
-10



Simple
Spear, crude axe, buckethelm, simple belt.
-5



Unsimple
Swordlike object, crude breastplate, simple necklace, crude circlet.
+0



Complicated
Reach-weapon type object, simple armor, most clothing.
+5



Super-complicated
Unusual or exotic weapon, moderately complex armor, some clothing, boots.
+10



Super-duper-complicated
Elaborate jewelry, ornate helm, very complex armor such as full plate, very unusual weaponry or other items..
+15


[/table]



I'll get to the minor/medium/major dealies later. This covers the basics of the new system, though.

Yuki Akuma
2006-10-10, 06:21 AM
Couldn't Take Apart be used to disable traps?

If so, how about giving the Panlid Champion Trapfinding and Search as a class skill?

Shiny, Bearer of the Pokystick
2006-10-10, 08:57 AM
Couldn't Take Apart be used to disable traps?

If so, how about giving the Panlid Champion Trapfinding and Search as a class skill?
Hm...you know, I'm not sure? One part of me says yes, it could, the other part says that Take Apart is very much a crude process, and attempting to disable a trap with it would just set it off.

Yuki Akuma
2006-10-10, 08:59 AM
Hm...you know, I'm not sure? One part of me says yes, it could, the other part says that Take Apart is very much a crude process, and attempting to disable a trap with it would just set it off.

But attempting to disable one with Disable Device can set it off, too.

Perhaps traps would automatically be super-duper complicated (+15 DC), plus a further 10 plus any mitigating factors for size and durability? So even the flimsiest of traps would have a Take Apart DC of 25?

Failing by 5 or more would set off the trap as normal, of course.

So the Panlid Champion wouldn't be as good as the Scardycat (if he gets in and keeps the Trapfinding feature), but would still do in a pinch.

Shiny, Bearer of the Pokystick
2006-10-10, 09:09 AM
But attempting to disable one with Disable Device can set it off, too.

Perhaps traps would automatically be super-duper complicated (+15 DC), plus a further 10 plus any mitigating factors for size and durability? So even the flimsiest of traps would have a Take Apart DC of 25?

Failing by 5 or more would set off the trap as normal, of course.

So the Panlid Champion wouldn't be as good as the Scardycat (if he gets in and keeps the Trapfinding feature), but would still do in a pinch.
Hm.....it'd say yes, Take Apart can be used to disable a trap, assuming you can find it (we'll go ahead and give him search. He still needs places to put them skill points); however, I would indeed make it super-duper-complicated automatically.
But to mitigate that, let's say you can make a construct check to Take Apart as normal, but you can add 1/2 any ranks in Disable Device you might happen to have as well- thus, a trapfinding build for the Panlid Champ is possible, if suboptimal.

Sound good?

Yuki Akuma
2006-10-10, 09:15 AM
Sounds perfect. I like classes that can fill more than one role.

Will the Panlid Champion gain Disable Device as a class skill, too? Or would it have to be a cross-class skill?

Shiny, Bearer of the Pokystick
2006-10-10, 09:53 AM
Sounds perfect. I like classes that can fill more than one role.

Will the Panlid Champion gain Disable Device as a class skill, too? Or would it have to be a cross-class skill?
It does seem to fit the flavor. So yeah, class skill.

Shiny, Bearer of the Pokystick
2006-10-10, 03:07 PM
New version of purposed item grades:

Put Together-Thingy:
A first-level Panlid Champion can utilize their Put Together ability to create light weapons and armor and small shields.

In order to create a light weapon, he must first take an item or piece of an item from his Take Apart skill that can be comfortably held in one hand; he must then use his Put Together skill to convert it into a weapon.
Any such weapon has the following statistics:
1d4 damage, usually bludgeoning, sometimes piercing or slashing if appropriate.
x2 critical modifier.

In order to create light armor, he must first take components from any item that can, when taken together, cover at least most of his body, and are not too heavy; cardboard or thick cloth is appropriate, while metal or ceramics is not. Such armor always has the following statistics:
+3 armor bonus
Maximum dexterity bonus +5
Armor check penalty -1
Arcane spell failure chance 10%


In order to create a small shield, the champion must take a component or item that can be held at one side comfortably and cover a significant but not enormous area. Such a sheild always has these statistics:
+1 shield bonus
Armor check penalty -1
Arcane spell failure chance 5%



These are going to be fairly verbose descriptions, but oh well.


Put Together- Thingamajig:
A sixth-level Panlid Champion can use his Put Together skill on objects he has disassembled with Take Apart, and so create One-handed weapons, medium armor, large shields, and throwing weapons.

In order to create a One-handed weapon, he must first take a component or item of weaponlike shape and size that can comfortably be held in one hand. Such a weapon always has the following statistics:
1d8 damage, usually bludgeoning, may be piercing or slashing if appropriate.
Critical range of 19-20/x2 critical modifier.

In order to create armor, the Champion must find an item or parts of an item that are rigid and tough and covers at least most of his body when taken together, and can be carried by him; such armor always has the following statistics:
+5 armor bonus.
Maximum dexterity bonus +3.
Armor check penalty -4.
Arcane spell failure chance 25%.

In order to create a large shield, an item or items must be procured that can be used to cover a large portion of the Champion's flank and can, with some construction, be carried strapped to one arm. Such shields have the following characteristics:
+2 shield bonus.
Armor check penalty -2.
Arcane spell failure chance 15%.

In order to create a thrown weapon, the Champion must find a small, light item he can fling with accuracy and distance. Such a weapon has the following statistics:
1d3 damage, usually piercing, sometimes bludgeoning or slashing as appropriate.
Critical range 19-20/x2 critical modifier.
Range increment twenty feet.


Bleh, so long! But it's the only way (I think).
Last few!


Put Together- Thingamummy:
A Panlid Champion of twelfth level or higher can use his Put Together skill on an item he has previously Taken Apart to create two-handed weapons, heavy armor, and tower sheilds.

In order to create a two-handed weapon, the Champion must find a large, intimidatingly weaponish object, such as a broom handle, that he can hold in two hands; he may then Put Together this item into a two-handed weapon with the following statistics:
2d6 damage, usually bludgeoning but may be piercing or slashing.
Critical range 19-20/x3 critical modifier.

In order to create heavy armor, exceptionally durable items or components in large quantity must be procured; upon doing so, the Champion may create armor with the following statistics:
+8 armor bonus.
Maximum dexterity bonus +2.
Armor check penalty -4.
Arcane spell failure chance 40%.

In order to create a tower shield, the Champion must find a very large, flat, sturdy object. This object can then be remade into a shield with the following statistics:
+4 shield bonus.
Maximum dexterity bonus +2.
Armor check penalty -8.
Arcane spell failure chance 40%.



One mo' time!


Put Together- Whatchamacalit:
At sixth level, and thereafter, a Panlid Champion can choose to purpose any item that suits him, and can reasonably be converted into such, into an item of the following types; headband, helmet, hat, phylactery, eye lenses, goggles, cloak, cape, or mantle, amulet/brooch/medallion, robe, shirt, vest, bracer, gloves or gauntlets, belt, or boots. The Panlid Champion can purpose only one item to any given body-slot at a time, and is subject to all rules regarding multiple items-per-slot as usual.


That last was the only one I was okay with out of the bunch. >_>;

Last thing I'm revising today, I swear it!


They Always Fit:
A Panlid Champion gains the ability, once every even-numbered level, to enhance any one type of equipment he carries by investing a part of his spirit in a part of his body to create a permanent magical emanation.
He essentially gains one imbuing 'point' at each even-numbered level, and must spend it that level. Any item thereafter worn in that slot gains the benefits of the imbued ability; if no item is worn there, the benefit is inactive.
A Panlid Champion can imbue the same slot no more than five times, and cannot imbue the same slot multiple times consecutively.
The effect depends on what kind of slot he chooses to imbue:
The helmet slot can be imbued to provide a bonus to any one mental ability score (maximum +5), or provide the character with darkvision out to 90ft (or 120ft if they already possess darkvision). Each use of the ability to imbue the slot can raise the ability score bonus by one, or add an additional ability; for instance, imbuing the slot four times could result in a +3 bonus to intelligence and darkvision.
Imbuing the goggle slot can grant the champion a +5 bonus on checks to disbelieve illusions (maximum +15), or the ability to see invisible or ethereal creatures; either of the latter two abilities is usable 3/day, and lasts for three rounds.
Imbuing the amulet slot can grant a +1 bonus to AC per use (maximum +8 ), or allow the champion to heal 1d6hp 1/day, increasing by 1d6 per use of the imbue ability (this ability can only be used on the champion himself).
Imbuing the armor slot or robe slot can grant a bonus to AC as the amulet slot can, or a +2 bonus on any one saving throw per use of the ability, or elemental resistance 5 per use of the ability.
Imbuing the glove and bracer metaslot can have varied effects; either 1d6 bonus damage of any one elemental type (maximum +3d6), a bonus to attacks roll of +2 per use (maximum +6), or the ability to make one extra attack per round at a -2 penalty per 10 points of BAB in addition to all normally granted attacks (this special ability costs two consecutive uses of the imbue ability).
Imbuing the belt slot can grant a bonus to any one physical ability score of +1 per use of imbue (maximum +5).
Imbuing the boot slot can grant an enhancement of +10ft to movement (maximum +30ft).

A champion can also wear magic items enchanted in the usual way in his imbued slots; if he does, the normal effect of the item and any applicable imbued slot effect are both active and any bonuses to the same ability, skill, or effect stack; if the abilities of the item and the slot would cancel each other out, the Champion chooses which is active. The slot effect is unique to the champion, being in essence a magical emanation produced by his body, and thus the item loses the benefits of the imbued ability if the Champion him or herself is not wearing it.

Shiny, Bearer of the Pokystick
2006-10-10, 03:27 PM
Okay; I finished the table and as it stands now, this is my revised version of the Panlid Champ.

I'm thinking maybe it does need a 20th-level ability, but I'm not sure if it really needs to be any more powerful...but tell me what you guys think.

Are its abilities clear now? Is it overpowered, underpowered, or just right?

Lemme know, folks.

Elrosth
2006-10-10, 05:39 PM
I think it's looking pretty good. What sort of material might be used for heavy armor?

belboz
2006-10-10, 07:04 PM
It's looking pretty good to me too. I just want to do a reality check by looking at the PC vs. the SH at a few places. BaB is the same, so we can ignore that.

The PC has the same Fort and Will saves as the SH, and has (at most levels) a +3 to Ref.

First, HP. The SH has an average of +1 HP/level. This can be nullified (generally) by the PC gaining +2 Con, which can be done by Level 6, at the expense of 2 of their three "Always Fits" slots. This also gets them +1 to their fort save.

At that point, the SH has a +1 to all saves--so the PC is just one point ahead on saves; effectively the same.

The SH has 3 bonus feats, and 1 use per day of Literary flavor; these are not matchable by the PC.

The PC has one more "Always Fits" slot--let's call it a +1 ability bonus, an AC bonus +int mod +1, and free, effectively always available, d8 weapons, medium armor, and shields.

So--3 bonus feats +1 reroll/day vs. +1 ability bonus, probably an average of 3-4 or so points to AC, and pretty decent (but non-magical), effectively always-available weapons and armor, +10 skill points.

I *think* that seems about balanced. I'm not sure I'd reduce the PCs skill points after all, though--I think without those extra points the PC may be a bit underpowered compared to the SH--at least at level 6 (and the SH gets some very nice stuff at level 7).

------------

Oh, one more question--what about overcoming DR? Being able to make weapons is a pretty important part of the PC's utility, but if they can't overcome even DR/magic, they're going to be pretty useless at high levels.

Maybe allow PCs to imbue their weapon slot to effectively add an enhancement bonus to any weapon they carry there, max. +5?

-----

Oh, and sorry--one more: "and outside of battle, as a source of potent magical enhancements."

I'm not sure I see that, so much. A PC is going to be great at equipping themselves, especially with their enhanced slots. But as far as the rest of the party goes:

1) It doesn't look like they can make enhancements for anyone else. All the "magical" stuff looks like it comes from their *slots*, not the items themselves. It's nontransferrable.

2) Anyway, with purposed items limited to their int bonus, they're not even going to be a great source of non-magical equipment for the entire party, at least unless/until they push their int up into the stratosphere--by which time non-magical equipment will be effectively useless.

I don't think that needs changing; but the description of the role might. They're a fighting class (although they have a very special way of doing it), not really a crafting class in any normal sense.

Shiny, Bearer of the Pokystick
2006-10-10, 11:19 PM
In order:

Keeping skill points at 4+Int
Added new "I Made it Special" ability to address damage reduction.
Revised role section of fluff and a few other things there.

Oh, and by the way; a PC could, technically, produce as much nonmagical equipment as he wants for his party- the Int limit is for items he possesses, that is, carries on his person and uses himself.
If he makes a suit of armor for his friend the SH, he can give it to that person- at which point he no longer possesses it and it no longer counts against his limit.
Same thing if a Put Together item is lost or stolen.

belboz
2006-10-11, 03:33 PM
Isn't that a little...odd?

Consider a clever PC (Int 16) and his friend, the heroic but rather dim SH (Int 8). The SH can use any number of pieces of PC material, but the PC himself can only use 3. It's as if being a PC actually came with a *penalty* to the number of PC items you can use.

Shiny, Bearer of the Pokystick
2006-10-11, 11:47 PM
Isn't that a little...odd?

Consider a clever PC (Int 16) and his friend, the heroic but rather dim SH (Int 8). The SH can use any number of pieces of PC material, but the PC himself can only use 3. It's as if being a PC actually came with a *penalty* to the number of PC items you can use.


You know, you're right?
*baleeted*

belboz
2006-10-12, 02:53 PM
Much happiness. OK, just one more question, I think, and it's pretty trivial. Is it "Thingamummy" or "Thingummy"? I always thought the latter, and dictionary.com agrees.

Shiny, Bearer of the Pokystick
2006-10-12, 06:27 PM
Much happiness. OK, just one more question, I think, and it's pretty trivial. Is it "Thingamummy" or "Thingummy"? I always thought the latter, and dictionary.com agrees.


I always said "Thingamummy" as a kid, which is why I had it as that. ^^;

I don't really care, though, and actual words are cool too.

Anybody else got changes, balance questions, additions, subtractions, before we submit it to the cold, merciless glare of....er...us?

Fax Celestis
2006-10-12, 06:54 PM
Nope.

Elrosth
2006-10-12, 08:37 PM
Nope.

Shiny, Bearer of the Pokystick
2006-10-13, 09:05 AM
Hokay then. If there are no objections, start a-sendin' your votes to the usual place, they'll be scored via the usual method.

belboz
2006-10-13, 03:03 PM
That is, PM them to me by Oct. 15, 6:05 AM PDT (GMT - 7).

As always, votes are for one of four categories:

A) "Core CUTE." High-quality, well-balanced, would fit with almost any version of CUTE. Compatible with all currently established core CUTE.
B) "Official CUTE Supplement." High-quality and well-balanced, but might not fit with the visions of a substantial portion of CUTE DMs. Compatible with all currently established core CUTE, but might not be compatible with other things from category B.
C) "Optional CUTE Supplement." Interesting and worthwhile, but with quality or balance issues.
D) Not admitted to CUTE.

Please vote for whatever level you think is most appropriate; I believe our vote-tabulating system should prevent any benefit from "strategic voting." To review, that system is:

First, the A votes are considered. If they have a majority, the class will be considered Category A.

Otherwise, the A votes will be counted as B votes, and if this gets B a majority, the class will be category B.

Otherwise, all A and B votes will be treated as C votes, and if this gets C a majority, the class will be counted as C.

If the D votes are a majority, the class will be counted as D.

And, as usual, we should be thinking of the next base class for review. Nominations to this thread.

Mephibosheth
2006-10-15, 12:16 AM
So, what class should we take up next? Have we reached enough of a decision on magic to take up the Animal Lover, the Storyteller, or the Mama's Boy/Girl?

Fax Celestis
2006-10-15, 12:26 AM
Perhaps Animal Lover. I'll probably be posting another base class tonight (the Prodigy).

Elrosth
2006-10-15, 05:30 AM
I think we should look at the Prodigy class.

belboz
2006-10-15, 04:37 PM
BTW, the results for the Panlid Champion are in! With a final tally of 4-1-0-0, the Panlid Champion is core CUTE.

Yuki Akuma
2006-10-15, 04:56 PM
I vote for Animal Lover, entirely so I won't have to vote "A" a fourth time in a row.

Shiny, Bearer of the Pokystick
2006-10-15, 05:58 PM
Thirded for Animal Lover.

I would say prodigy but we're still discussing it.

belboz
2006-10-15, 10:42 PM
I'll fourth it, which surely must be good enough.

Yuki, would you be willing to start an AL thread?

Thanks much,
Belboz

Yuki Akuma
2006-10-16, 05:14 AM
'Tis done (http://www.giantitp.com/cgi-bin/yabb/YaBB.pl?board=homebrew;action=display;num=11609820 31;start=0#0).