[3.5] Need help killing a Werewolf without silver.

[DancingMonkey]

After lurking here for months, I have finally come across a problem in a recently started 3.5ed D&D Campaign that I could definitely use input on.

A quick background:

My DM is just getting back into the game after having not played in several years, and this is his first 3.5 game either playing or DMing. He's been mostly "winging it" so far while he gets a feel for us as players, and it has lead to mixed results..

This is my first game in years as well, and the first of 3.X - other than playing Neverwinter Nights when it first came out if you even want to count that.

There are 4 other party members - 1 with a good deal of experience in AD&D, but another 3.X newcomer. The other 3 are all in their first Campaign, again to mixed results. :P

The party is comprised as follows: (All level 2) Half-Elf Ranger (myself), Half-Dragon Fighter (beginner), Half-Elf Sorceror (beginner), Halfling Rogue (beginner), and a Dwarven Cleric (the experienced one.)

The problem is as such - the DM has been using the DMG to roll random rooms in the dungeon we are currently "cleansing," and the latest room has led us to encounter what appears to be a Werewolf. All that's happened so far is that I've eaten a critical crossbow bolt pre-shapechange as I was entering the doorway, and the fluffy one has scampered to a dark corner as he started the change.

As the topic states - we have no silver weapons. The Half-Dragon is the only one of us to likely break his /10 DR regularly with myself being next, but we're not sure that's going to be enough to pull through. The game session is paused with the group heading towards the door behind me, and the foe off in his current hiding place.

Any strategic advice would be much, much appreciated! And any other details about the party that you need are easy to share. We're just using the DMG, PHB, and base MM also.

Thanks!

[Karma Guard]

Do you have access to Fire or Acid damage?

I don't remember the exacts, but I am pretty sure Acid/Fire just tells normal regeneration to step off.

I know they're my go-to spells for killing regenerators. If it worked for Hercules, it works for me! :V

[DancingMonkey]

A basic Acid Splash I believe is all we have there. We've already checked for any molotov-capable alcohol in our supplies.. needless to say we planned poorly there. ;)

[cheezewizz2000]

Well, the sorcerer's magic should bipass DR (I'm not sure though, so it might be worth checking), and if the sorc has sleep, then you're laughing. Stock warewolves have 3HD, which is below the 4HD limit for that spell, so spam that until he fails his will save and then coup de grace him.

Failing that, your Cleric may have Cause Fear or Command prepared. If that's the case, use those to buy you some time if the fight goes south. Worst case scenario you cast one of them and run.

Tripping him up is always a valid option as well and will grant you free attacks of opportunity when he tries to get up.

[Inyssius Tor]

Do you have access to Fire or Acid damage?

I don't remember the exacts, but I am pretty sure Acid/Fire just tells normal regeneration to step off.

I know they're my go-to spells for killing regenerators. If it worked for Hercules, it works for me! :V

Lycanthropes do not have regeneration. Unless they also happen to be trolls.

Damage is probably out, I think. Try disabling him some other way...

On looking at the stat-block, you want that little monster out of lupine form. Out of hybrid form, even. Can his hybrid form open doors?

[Talic]

1) Were creatures do not have regeneration. They have DR.

2) DR applies to physical damage only. Casters with spells that deal damage are usually unaffected.

This means that your sorceror will bypass the DR when he casts any direct damage spell. Spells to look at are Magic Missile, Kelgore's firebolt, or whatever other zappy spell he has.

Your cleric should focus either on kicking butt (if he's a CoDzilla able to easily crush the 10 DR), buffing others (make every hit count), or healing (if the fight's gonna be a marathon).

Half Dragon can do what he does, and hurt stuff.

Ranger? Hmm. Provide flanking bonuses, tie up the enemy, use attacks such as trip to keep the foe from moving too much.

Rogue? Well, if this is level 5, the shapeshifter will be eating 3d6 sneak attack on top of the 1d4 damage he's likely doing, for an average of 13 damage on a nonmagical weapon. That's with a str bonus of 0. Provided the werewolf doesn't have uncanny dodge, flanking with the ranger should really do a lot here.

[Karma Guard]

Lycanthropes do not have regeneration. Unless they also happen to be trolls.

Damage is probably out, I think. Try disabling him some other way...

On looking at the stat-block, you want that little monster out of lupine form. Out of hybrid form, even. Can his hybrid form open doors?

I always mix D&D flavor up with every other flavor. They usually get regeneration except to silver :V

No, in D&D, it's just DR. Knock that puppy out with sleep.

[cheezewizz2000]

Your cleric should focus either on kicking butt (if he's a CoDzilla able to easily crush the 10 DR), buffing others (make every hit count), or healing (if the fight's gonna be a marathon).

Rogue? Well, if this is level 5, the shapeshifter will be eating 3d6 sneak attack on top of the 1d4 damage he's likely doing, for an average of 13 damage on a nonmagical weapon. That's with a str bonus of 0. Provided the werewolf doesn't have uncanny dodge, flanking with the ranger should really do a lot here.

They're level 2. Best the rogue can hope for is that he rolls a 4 and a 6 and has a strength bonus. Unless he has trip attacks to bring to the table, he's not going to be achieving much...

:edit: Also, can Clerics really achieve CoDzilla status at level 2? They don't have access to any of the self-buffs (divine power etc) that make that possible. The Cleric's focus here will be healing and possibly trying to make that wolf turn-tail and run with cause fear if it all goes wrong.

[Talic]

Sorry, I see a level +3 template, and I see a level 4-5 game minimum. Wasn't aware that characters of differing power levels were being used.

That said, at ECL 2, a lycanthrope is probably a bit high on the CR chart.

[Biffoniacus_Furiou]

If the Sorcerer has selected the proper spells known, it should be an easy fight with Color Spray. If he has picked Magic Missile at this low a level, then he deserves to lose this battle along with whoever advised him to take it.

If the Half-Dragon has Power Attack, he should be using it two-handed for this fight. Anyone with the AC/HP to risk standing toe-to-toe with the critter should try to flank it with him. The rogue will probably do that, hopefully the werewolf will divide his attacks (claw/claw the fighter, bite the flanker).

The Cleric's role in the fight depends entirely on what spells he has prepared and what domains he's selected. Hopefully he has Doom prepared, and/or can buff the fighter with Shield of Faith. Otherwise he's best off giving it yet another target to hit until someone's hurt, then step back out of reach and CLW on whoever needs it.

You could either stick to ranged combat on it, or if TWF flank it with the Cleric, or if lacking Precise Shot get out a two-handed weapon and flank with the Cleric.

It's in the corner, probably changing into hybrid form. You want it to have to move then attack, rather than approach it and get full-attacked. Chances are it got the crossbow shot in a surprise round, and you'll all roll initiative wherever you're at. It will probably win initiative, but has to take a standard action to change forms. It can then take a move action, which could turn out badly if everyone has to move by it to get into position, but luckily it can only make one AoO/round. If it gets to change forms and attack before anyone else acts, call shenanigans because it couldn't shoot and change forms in the surprise round, and it can't change forms and attack all in one round. It actually couldn't do anything more than fire a crossbow and 5' step in the surprise round, so if it's moved more than 5' since shooting you then it should be taken off its first round in initiative. That means that once it's changed forms its stuck where it's at until everyone else has had a turn. If it's in the corner, use ranged attacks/spells and let it move then attack so it can't full-attack. Melee types should ready an action to attack then 5' step away if it gets into reach, they'll hit it then step back and if it was attacking them it will swing into an empty square, though they'll be acting after it does on the next round.

Note that it only has DR 10/Silver, not Regeneration or Fast Healing or any of the old stuff that made werewolves completely unkillable. Also remember that DR only reduces bludgeoning, piercing, and slashing damage dealt to it, spell damage is never affected by DR, and neither is energy damage such as acid and fire. If anyone has a lit torch try touch-attacking it to catch it on fire, it would have to make a DC 13 Reflex save or take 1d6 fire damage/round until its put out. At CR 3 it shouldn't be beyond the means of a party of 5 level 2 characters, though it could easily drop any one of you in a single full-attack if it doesn't miss with anything.

[Talic]

If the Sorcerer has selected the proper spells known, it should be an easy fight with Color Spray. If he has picked Magic Missile at this low a level, then he deserves to lose this battle along with whoever advised him to take it.

First, Magic missile, even at low levels, is not a bad choice.

1) Color Spray, while an excellent spell, is very close range. At this level (2), that's a heck of a gamble, as a werewolf should be able to reliably drop a sorceror in short order at close range.

2) Magic Missile, at low levels, is a reliable hit. Against anything. The damage isn't stellar, true. But whether the party faces a werewolf, an ogre, or a shadow, Magic missile will hit and deal damage. This may not seem like much, but when that sorceror may be swinging as low as a +3 or +4 to hit at this level? Roll-to-hit spells, even touch attack ones, are dicey, as even a 10 AC has a 25% miss chance.

3) Lycanthropes get an inherent bonus to wisdom. Many get the Iron Will feat free. This means that Color Spray is by no means a sure thing either.

In other words, your advice on Magic Missile being a poor choice is sketchy at best. It's a spell that deals guaranteed damage at low levels, at a range that will do for most any fight, and scales reasonably well to mid level.

Compare this to Color Spray, with a highly powerful effect at low level, with a very short (read: dangerous) range, that's effectiveness drops off as levels rise.

Shouldn't be a hard choice.

Sorcerors need, by level 6:
1 good fort save or suck/die.
1 good will save or suck/die. (I like Slow, and at low levels, sleep - better range)
1 good reflex save or suck/die. (I like Web, and, at low levels, Grease)
1 Good No save spell.

In addition, they need:
A method of reliably hitting incorporeal creatures.
A method of bypassing standard regeneration (fire/acid).
A method of dealing with multiple creatures (walls/web/etc).

Ideally, they will want some decent duration defensive spells, such as Wind Wall, Mirror Image, and Invisibility (uses for this are boundless).

If filling a more supportive role, consider strong short term buffs, like Haste, Fly, jump, and the like.

Second, spells that deal physical damage ARE affected by DR. There are exceptions to many of the generalizations that people make.

[bosssmiley]

I suggest asphyxiation as a way of skirting the DR problem. You do have coils of rope, right?

[Talic]

Generally, if they can strangle the creature to death, they've got it beat anyway.

That said, a quick grapple by the half dragon, followed by a pin (possbile before it acts, if you use readied actions properly), the rest of the party can take it down at leisure.

If the dragon had 18 str base, it's looking at a 26 minimum (30 if an orc, 28 if a half orc).

+2 (BAB) +8 (Str) Is good to begin with. If he has Imp Grapple, so much the better.

[Waspinator]

Any problem can be solved with enough fire.

[TrogdorX]

As the Cleric mentioned by Dancing Monkey, here are the spells that I currently have prepared at the time we paused if it helps with ideas:

I have the Chaos and Strength spheres.

Level 0 - Cure Minor Wounds, Light, Guidance, Resistance
Level 1 - Cure Light Wounds, Magic Weapon, Enlarge Person, Doom

Some additional information about the room and circumstances that may also help (or not). The room has a running stream/river running through it, and it was across this that the werewolf ran into the darker recesses of the room. The asphyxiation by strangulation could be modified into also drowning if needs be, hadn't even thought of that before.

In the room behind the Ranger who took the surprise round crossbow shot is where most of the party still is, with the Half-Dragon Fighter and the Dwarven Cleric ironically enough towards the middle of the room, furthest from the encounter at this point. We'd just finished off a small group of kobolds who'd attacked us with spears/javelins and slings. What would the effectiveness be of using a sling with a impromptu bullet of a silver coin? We have a sack we'd found that had some 600 of them I think from earlier in the dungeon that the Fighter is packing around. We also found a wand of invisibility that the Ranger has at the moment.

In the room just behind where the rest of the party is at appears to be a laboratory that has a table with vials of various things, as well as a huge fire pit with a rather large cauldron over it. Any ideas on the possibility of melting down silver quickly enough to coat weapons in or pour into vials to make impromptu silver potions to throw at it?

Again, most of us are mostly 3.x system virgins, so some of the newer rule changes and such we're basically flying by the seat of our pants on. Thanks to all who've posted some pretty good ideas already, hope the additional info helps.

[Starbuck_II]

Does no one have a Torch?
Torches deal 1 fire damage in addition to club damage (improvised so -4 hit).

DR can't stop fire damage.

[TrogdorX]

At one point some of us were holding torches, and most of the rooms we've passed through have torches hanging on the walls, including the one that we were standing in before entering wolf-land.

[ShneekeyTheLost]

Enlarge Person the Ranger, this will increase his damage, hopefully enough to also get through the tough DR. Ranger and Half-Dragon (unable to be Enlarged due to Dragon rather than Humanoid) set up flanking opportunities for the rogue, unless there's no way for the rogue to do much, in which case he simply uses an Aid Another action to help the two 'tanks' hit.

Sorcerer needs to try to shut this pup down. If you have sleep, use it, but be careful about friendly fire... the Rogue is lower level than the pup, so he'll get hit first if he's in the area. If you've got Magic Missile... use it. Constant damage will be good.

Cleric stands behind the fighter and keeps him UP.

The problem with the Sling idea is that you've got two buddies already in melee with it. This gives a -4 on attack (unless you happen to have Precise Shot), and have a chance of hitting allies if you miss. Also, it likely won't be doing much damage, because you cannot flank with a ranged weapon. He would need to be hidden for his sneak attack to kick in. And re-hide every round.

[kpenguin]

Anyone have any decent social skills? Werewolves are semi-intelligent. Try talking to him.

[Lycanthromancer]

Mr. cleric, you shouldn't be preparing cure spells unless you channel negative energy (that is, you're evil or negative-Neutral). Most Good and Neutral clerics can spontaneously convert their prepared spells to cure spells, without preparing them beforehand. Just FYI.

Also, if anyone has ranks in the Appraise or Knowledge skills, have him check the vials to see if there are any alchemical mixtures that would be handy. Tanglefoot bags, alchemist's fire, acid, etc. See if there are any alchemical silvered weapons lying around. See if there are any features of the room that could otherwise be useful to you. Rope, items hanging from the ceiling you could drop to pin the critter, and so on.

Also, see if you can talk to the lycanthrope before going into full-scale destruction-a-la-mode. He IS an intelligent critter, after all, should speak Common, and might actually help you out. Maybe he's EEEEEvil, or maybe he's scared and jumped the gun (or maybe he's evil but willing to talk). Whomever has the highest Cha and ranks in Diplomacy, have him talk to the were as it's changing. You should get at least a round before he finishes his change. If you offer parlay, he may just listen to you, and tell you where to find some goodies.

Otherwise, grab some torches for the meatshields, and a couple of slings for the two casters (and use the silver as ammo). Maybe have one of the melee-types ready an action with a piece of rope as a makeshift lasso to trip it. Maybe have all of your party ready an action to pass the rope from one person to the next, wrapping the were up in four turns.

While person one is Diplomacizing and person two is Aiding Another (talking is a free action), have them survey the equipment on the table for flasks, silver weapons, etc. Person three goes to grab some torches. Person four uses Use Rope to tie a lasso-knot. On round 2, while one of you is still talking, have the rest of the party quietly relay what they find. If nothing is to be found, have person four ready an action to lasso the were (should be easy, with a touch attack). Everyone else readies an action to use their move actions to grab the rope and move around and around the were, passing it on to the next person in line. See if you can't entangle him before his turn comes up.

Otherwise, all four of you could push over some tables as cover (preferably empty ones), and fire your silver coins as makeshift sling-bullets.

You could also have the ranger bull-rush the were into the water, have the half-dragon grapple him, and then have the rest of the party Aiding Another while the HD tries to drown him. Just hope his Con score is better than the were-critter, and that he's a decent grappler.

[RS14]

The problem with the Sling idea is that you've got two buddies already in melee with it. This gives a -4 on attack (unless you happen to have Precise Shot), and have a chance of hitting allies if you miss. Also, it likely won't be doing much damage, because you cannot flank with a ranged weapon. He would need to be hidden for his sneak attack to kick in. And re-hide every round.
The chance to strike allies was removed in 3.5

[tobykenobi]

This is the Half Dragon fighter mentioned. In regards to diplomacy, how far would we want to take our efforts. Before the werewolf shot the ranger in the chest, the ranger hailed him in a non threatening manner, to which the were responded with a sly grin and a flying crossbow bolt. Judging by that, I'd say he's a jerk and wants to eat our faces. :smallwink:

[Lycanthromancer]

This is the Half Dragon fighter mentioned. In regards to diplomacy, how far would we want to take our efforts. Before the werewolf shot the ranger in the chest, the ranger hailed him in a non threatening manner, to which the were responded with a sly grin and a flying crossbow bolt. Judging by that, I'd say he's a jerk and wants to eat our faces. :smallwink:

Touché. Doesn't mean you can't use Bluff to distract him, however. ^_^

[tobykenobi]

I'm all about resolving things peacefully, but I think this pup is pretty set in his chaotic evil nature. Bluff is a good option though, thanks for the advice. :-)

[Lycanthromancer]

http://images.icanhascheezburger.com/completestore/2008/6/10/lookadistrac128575782346504189.jpg

[Coidzor]

If anyone was using a lantern or there's any lanterns that you can get to easily, flasks of oil can be readied to become improvised alchemist's fire type grenade weapons or they can be dumped on a square and ignited to deal fire damage to anything in or passing through said square.

I know you don't have any booze to burn, but oil is a fairly useful thing.

Though it seems you've already gotten some pretty good advice.

[Aquillion]

Does your Sorcerer have Silent Image? That's really a better first-level spell choice than any of the other junk people have listed... any first-level damage spell will eventually get obsolete. Any first-level save spell is eventually going to have a pathetic save. A well-used silent image, though, can be effective at any level. The fact that werewolves have scent would be a problem, but not an impossible one if you're creative enough...

What spells do they have? A second-level Sorc doesn't have so many that they can't all be listed...

[DancingMonkey]

The Sorc's spells are as follow:

Cantrips:
Light, Acid Splash, Ray of Frost, Detect Magic, Read Magic

1st:
Mage Armor, Color Spray

Any advice for spells she should pick up would be greatly appreciated. On top of us being new to 3.5 none of us that have played before have played caster classes much at all.

For the Oil suggestion - I wish we could. Sadly I don't think any of us are currently carrying any, though with that Alchemy lab on the other end of this hallway we might acquire some that way.

Thanks again to everyone and their suggestions so far - I think we're all feeling alot better about our options now.

[ShneekeyTheLost]

The Sorc's spells are as follow:

Cantrips:
Light, Acid Splash, Ray of Frost, Detect Magic, Read Magic

1st:
Mage Armor, Color Spray

Any advice for spells she should pick up would be greatly appreciated. On top of us being new to 3.5 none of us that have played before have played caster classes much at all.

For the Oil suggestion - I wish we could. Sadly I don't think any of us are currently carrying any, though with that Alchemy lab on the other end of this hallway we might acquire some that way.

Thanks again to everyone and their suggestions so far - I think we're all feeling alot better about our options now.

Very solid choice for a new Sorcerer. Later on, I'd suggest switching out Mage Armor, once you can afford +1 Twilight Mithral Chain Shirt. But for now, it will keep him alive.

Color Spray is in every way superior to Sleep after you run into 5+ HD critters, I congratulate your sorcerer's ability to think ahead.

I'd go ahead and tell him to pick up Magic Missile next level, just because it's constant damage.

I do highly suggest his first 2nd level spell be Mirror Image, though. It's a real lifesaver.

[Templarkommando]

I realize you may not have access to some of these spells I'm about to mention, but there are ways that you can effectively neutralize enemies that you don't have the proper materials to kill.

I recall that my party got into a random encounter while we were traveling to a major world dungeon. This random encounter consisted of a pack of trolls hanging out in a cave. We were going to wind up fighting them soon if we didn't do something so the cleric in my party stoneshaped them into their cave. We didn't get full XP but at least we didn't waste all of our resources trying to kill 6 or more trolls.

If you could find a hole or a pit trap somewhere, it is conceivable that you could lure them up to it and then bull rush them into it. You won't like the effects of that if you don't have improved bullrush though.

You might try giving your rogue a good shot at flanking the wolf so he can get off a series of sneak attacks. That would help him break DR fairly often.

It's conceivable, though kind of ridiculous, that you could sharpen some silver coins and use them as improvised weapons. You'd only be doing like a d2 or 1 damage tops, but at least you're doing damage.... admittedly, that one is really far fetched, and I'm not sure if I would let it work if I were DMing.

[Thurbane]

I would recommend poison and alchemical items (i.e. alchemist's fire) - could get expensive though...

[TrogdorX]

Mr. cleric, you shouldn't be preparing cure spells unless you channel negative energy (that is, you're evil or negative-Neutral). Most Good and Neutral clerics can spontaneously convert their prepared spells to cure spells, without preparing them beforehand. Just FYI.

Also, if anyone has ranks in the Appraise or Knowledge skills, have him check the vials to see if there are any alchemical mixtures that would be handy. Tanglefoot bags, alchemist's fire, acid, etc. See if there are any alchemical silvered weapons lying around. See if there are any features of the room that could otherwise be useful to you. Rope, items hanging from the ceiling you could drop to pin the critter, and so on.

Also, see if you can talk to the lycanthrope before going into full-scale destruction-a-la-mode. He IS an intelligent critter, after all, should speak Common, and might actually help you out. Maybe he's EEEEEvil, or maybe he's scared and jumped the gun (or maybe he's evil but willing to talk). Whomever has the highest Cha and ranks in Diplomacy, have him talk to the were as it's changing. You should get at least a round before he finishes his change. If you offer parlay, he may just listen to you, and tell you where to find some goodies.

Otherwise, grab some torches for the meatshields, and a couple of slings for the two casters (and use the silver as ammo). Maybe have one of the melee-types ready an action with a piece of rope as a makeshift lasso to trip it. Maybe have all of your party ready an action to pass the rope from one person to the next, wrapping the were up in four turns.

While person one is Diplomacizing and person two is Aiding Another (talking is a free action), have them survey the equipment on the table for flasks, silver weapons, etc. Person three goes to grab some torches. Person four uses Use Rope to tie a lasso-knot. On round 2, while one of you is still talking, have the rest of the party quietly relay what they find. If nothing is to be found, have person four ready an action to lasso the were (should be easy, with a touch attack). Everyone else readies an action to use their move actions to grab the rope and move around and around the were, passing it on to the next person in line. See if you can't entangle him before his turn comes up.

Otherwise, all four of you could push over some tables as cover (preferably empty ones), and fire your silver coins as makeshift sling-bullets.

You could also have the ranger bull-rush the were into the water, have the half-dragon grapple him, and then have the rest of the party Aiding Another while the HD tries to drown him. Just hope his Con score is better than the were-critter, and that he's a decent grappler.

See, I had no clue that I didn't have to prepare a Cure spell. Total newb to Clerics, so no shocker there. Time to sit down and read the PHB and really wrap my head around how the new system works. In fact, now that you mention it I think the DM had stated that during that last session, just prior to the kobold encounter when I had to rest to get my Cure spells back.

Otherwise, a huge thank you to everyone for all the great ideas and better understanding of the rule systems for 3.5, certainly doesn't leave us with that sinking feeling that we're all gonna die. :smallbiggrin: We're up to the challenge for sure, and now that we are getting a better grasp of some strategies using what we already have, (which isn't much, talk about an ill-prepared party... :smallwink:) we should be able to pull some sort of high hilarity off, and maybe get it to work. We'll have to make sure to post back what we tried and if we managed to pull it off, which now has me jonesing for Saturday so we can get together and play.

[Kyouhen]

My suggestion would be to lure the wolf into the river, Enlarge the half-dragon, then let him grapple and drown the wolf. I'm sure once enlarged he'd probably be big enough to handle the wolf and keep his head above the water. Not 100% sure how effective it would be, but you could see if Ray of Frost would do anything to the water around the wolf. Maybe make it a little harder for him to move and fight back.

[Aquillion]

Any advice for spells she should pick up would be greatly appreciated. On top of us being new to 3.5 none of us that have played before have played caster classes much at all.
I actually can't find a good single sorcerer spell guide (Solo wrote a sorcerer guide on the forums a while back, but its spell list is... idiosyncratic, you might say, since he felt other people had written better ones for wizards that would work just as well.)

In general, the infamous Being Batman (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=19085) guide for wizards has a lot of highlights that will still be useful for sorcerers (although it's a bit dated, I'm guessing you don't have access to a huge number of books for your first game anyway, so it should be fine.) She might also want to check out Gleemax's lists for individual spell schools; although they're a bit directed at wizards again, it's still a good general hot-or-not guide:

Conjuration, (http://forums.gleemax.com/showthread.php?t=1005797) Transmutation, (http://forums.gleemax.com/showthread.php?t=1003624) Divination, (http://forums.gleemax.com/showthread.php?t=969772) Abjuration, (http://forums.gleemax.com/showthread.php?t=990722) Evocation, (http://forums.gleemax.com/showthread.php?t=968899) Necromany, (http://forums.gleemax.com/showthread.php?t=1000627) Illusion, (http://forums.gleemax.com/showthread.php?t=1010026) Enchantment. (http://forums.gleemax.com/showthread.php?t=1010044)

There are a small number of sorcerer-only spells, several of which are extremely awesome (possibly even broken), but they're from specific sourcebooks that you probably don't have on-hand, and it doesn't sound like you'll need them anyway.

In general, sorcerers should look at a few specific things when they choose their spells:

* Versatile spells. The more situations your spells can apply to, and the more different things you can do with your spells, the better. You only get a few spells, so you want to ensure that they're as applicable as possible, and avoid ones that will only be useful occasionally. Disintegrate, say, is nice because it is effective both as a direct killing spell, and for changing the terrain (and it works on some kinds of golems to an extent, to boot.) Illusions and the beneficial polymorph-type are valuable because they can do a lot of different things (although many DMs ban or modify the polymorph line on account of being exploitable.) Shadow Evocation and Shadow Conjuration (or their greater versions) are important because they give you access to an entire list of spells. Glitterdust both gives you a save-or-blind, and can reveal invisible creatures.

* A versatile overall list. Avoid spells that duplicate the same effects. (While illusions are great, you don't want to grab every single one.) Try to have ways to hit every different save; in particular, Slow is important in core because it's one of the few will saves that will work on mindless creatures like Undead, whose weakness is often Will. Resilient Sphere is a rare Dex save that can turn battles -- it only removes the victim from the encounter for a bit, but that's enough for you to kill everyone else, heal, and buff, or for you to just run away. Avoid focusing too much on one save. Likewise, you'll want spells that are useful even when fighting things with high SR, and ray spells that can exploit a low touch AC. You want both buffs and terrain alteration, too, for when you can't hit the enemy with spells directly.

* You want spells that don't become obsolete. (There is some leeway here because spells can be swapped out, but because that's limited you don't want too many spells in this category.) Sleep is a bad choice in the long run because of the HD restriction, say. At higher levels, mind-affecting spells because a bit less useful because so many opponents are immune (although this depends heavily on setting, and it can still be worth having a one or two. Just avoid too many of them.)

For other specific nice spells, Rope Trick is nice because once you hit CL 8, it gives your whole party the option of retreating, regrouping, resting eight hours and recovering all your spells if things get really bad. (This is really better for your wizard to handle if you have one, of course, since you're not going to cast it more than once per day... but with no wizard, it's still a fine sorc pick at only level 2.) The Teleport line is an obvious must-have if your DM allows it (many don't, since it completely changes your party's capabilities to be able to zip around like that. Not to mention the advantage it gives you when you need to run away. Some way of flying, either Flight, Overland Flight, or Phantom Steed is also a must. Enervation is nice because it only requires a ranged touch attack, and doesn't allow a save (its effect isn't as overwhelming as some people imply unless you use metamagic with it, but it's still nice.)

Most people say that casters of all types should avoid focusing on direct damage-dealing; fighters and rogues and so forth are better at that. Wizards are better functioning as a force multiplier for the damage done by others, and by adding totally new functionality to the party via things like Fly or Teleport. Generally, the rest of the party can already do damage, they don't really need the wizard contributing most of the time. (Yeah, yeah, there are exceptions, like your current situation, but in general if the wizard is the only one doing damage you're in trouble anyway.) A few damage-dealing spells can't hurt (and there are some that are nice, especially if they come with some other effect), but don't go overboard unless you really want that.

Obviously, she can modify this to fit her character concept, but if you want to avoid having a bad spell list, those are the important things to keep in mind.

Oh. And make sure she carries a few scrolls, especially of low-level utility spells that only come up occasionally like Knock or Comprehend Languages. Those aren't spells a sorcerer would generally want (although they do have the advantage of never getting obsolete the way, say, Magic Missile will), but you can get scrolls of them cheap it can be nice to have them to fall back on in a pinch.

[Talic]

As the Cleric mentioned by Dancing Monkey, here are the spells that I currently have prepared at the time we paused if it helps with ideas:

I have the Chaos and Strength spheres.

Level 0 - Cure Minor Wounds, Light, Guidance, Resistance
Level 1 - Cure Light Wounds, Magic Weapon, Enlarge Person, Doom

Some additional information about the room and circumstances that may also help (or not). The room has a running stream/river running through it, and it was across this that the werewolf ran into the darker recesses of the room. The asphyxiation by strangulation could be modified into also drowning if needs be, hadn't even thought of that before.

In the room behind the Ranger who took the surprise round crossbow shot is where most of the party still is, with the Half-Dragon Fighter and the Dwarven Cleric ironically enough towards the middle of the room, furthest from the encounter at this point. We'd just finished off a small group of kobolds who'd attacked us with spears/javelins and slings. What would the effectiveness be of using a sling with a impromptu bullet of a silver coin? We have a sack we'd found that had some 600 of them I think from earlier in the dungeon that the Fighter is packing around. We also found a wand of invisibility that the Ranger has at the moment.

In the room just behind where the rest of the party is at appears to be a laboratory that has a table with vials of various things, as well as a huge fire pit with a rather large cauldron over it. Any ideas on the possibility of melting down silver quickly enough to coat weapons in or pour into vials to make impromptu silver potions to throw at it?

Again, most of us are mostly 3.x system virgins, so some of the newer rule changes and such we're basically flying by the seat of our pants on. Thanks to all who've posted some pretty good ideas already, hope the additional info helps.


Enlarge the Half Dragon. The additional +2 Size modifier to Strength and increased weapon damage based on size will give him a shot at taking the wolf. Follow up with heals as necessary, and have other characters flank for bonuses, trip for bonuses, etc.

If the wolf is flanked and tripped, the Half dragon gets +6 to hit. This allows for a reliable 2 for 4 power attack as well.

[Thurbane]

I actually can't find a good single sorcerer spell guide (Solo wrote a sorcerer guide on the forums a while back, but its spell list is... idiosyncratic, you might say, since he felt other people had written better ones for wizards that would work just as well.)
Making a Swiss Army Knife from a Spoon (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=102493)
Optimal sorcerer spell list (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=30344)

[Quietus]

To those saying "Enlarge the half dragon" : The half dragon is a Dragon type creature. Enlarge Person enlarges Humanoids. The half dragon is not a valid target for Enlarge Person.

[Talic]

I think that the rogue and ranger would be better served with harrying/aiding tactics over attempting zany -4 penalty improvised attacks with 50/50 igniting weapons. At level 2, a good medium sized rogue will have no better than a +6 to hit (Elf, 20 dex, 1 BAB), which turns the attack itself into a coin flip, not to mention the ignite chance.

No, If one flanks and Aids another, and the other trips? +8 to hit for the dragon. Turn your best asset into a sure hit.

Cleric. Enlarge followed by buffs and heals, as necessary. For the love of Pete, stop memorizing cure spells, you can spontaneously cast them.

Sorceror - Throw add on damage where you can, whether it's magic missile, Kelgore's Firebolt, Orb of X, or even acid splash.

[ericgrau]

^ They're touch attacks, so hitting should be easy. Plus if they fail to ignite you can always torch him later. Werewolves only have 20 HP, so this combined with cantrips from the sorc and damage from the half-dragon and rogue sneak attacks wouldn't take the party long to drop him. But I think the OP said they had no oil.

If someone really can't contribute anything else, he could use aid another, etc., as Talic & others mentioned. Especially given their shortage of options since this is an unplanned fight.

[Fixer]

Back out of the room.
Close the door.
Return to town with the loot you have.
Buy some silvered weapons.
Return to the dungeon and then resume clearing it out, better equipped.

If the werewolf hasn't left by then, it deserves to be killed.

If some monsters have moved into the rooms you have already cleared, more gold/xp.


Charging headlong into a fight you are very badly equipped for is foolish if retreating and re-arming is an option. ESPECIALLY against a creature far above your challenge level (like Mr. Werewolf).

[Aquillion]

Back out of the room.
Close the door.
Return to town with the loot you have.
Buy some silvered weapons.
Return to the dungeon and then resume clearing it out, better equipped.I considered suggesting this (in some ways it's the best option, and there's at least a small chance the werewolf doesn't actually want to fight.)

But the thing is, it can just turn into its hybrid form, open the door, then turn into a wolf and use its 50 move speed to chase them down. They can't hide, either, since it has scent.

The combination of scent + high move + DR makes werewolves a particularly nasty encounter for an unprepared low-level party...

[DancingMonkey]

I considered suggesting this (in some ways it's the best option, and there's at least a small chance the werewolf doesn't actually want to fight.)

But the thing is, it can just turn into its hybrid form, open the door, then turn into a wolf and use its 50 move speed to chase them down. They can't hide, either, since it has scent.

The combination of scent + high move + DR makes werewolves a particularly nasty encounter for an unprepared low-level party...

That is indeed one problem with trying to evade and return to town. There is also that two of our party members are midgets (the Dwarf and the Halfling), and the fact that our DM has already shown he's ready for us to be a little more aggressive in our decisions as we've been more passive and all-defense so far.

We're also on a bit of a time-sensitive quest that wouldn't work too well with regrouping, no matter how badly we could use it. I think we'll need to find a way to survive this Dungeon and use it as a great learning experience for us all going forward. No more allowing the DM to suggest we have what we need, and then roll to randomly generate each room and encounter as we progress.. kinda giving us the shaft so far. ;)

Here is a question I have that I didn't mention before - any suggestions on how to handle one of us getting infected if the beasty happens to get a few claw strikes in?

[Kyouhen]

That is indeed one problem with trying to evade and return to town. There is also that two of our party members are midgets (the Dwarf and the Halfling), and the fact that our DM has already shown he's ready for us to be a little more aggressive in our decisions as we've been more passive and all-defense so far.

We're also on a bit of a time-sensitive quest that wouldn't work too well with regrouping, no matter how badly we could use it. I think we'll need to find a way to survive this Dungeon and use it as a great learning experience for us all going forward. No more allowing the DM to suggest we have what we need, and then roll to randomly generate each room and encounter as we progress.. kinda giving us the shaft so far. ;)

Here is a question I have that I didn't mention before - any suggestions on how to handle one of us getting infected if the beasty happens to get a few claw strikes in?

Bites. Lycanthropy is spread via bites. That said, depends on how you view it. I'm pretty sure that becoming a lycanthrope won't affect your character's ability to think like it normally would otherwise. If anyone other than the half-dragon can survive getting nibbled, you might even be tempted to try and make the thing bite you. :smallwink:

[Starbuck_II]

Bites. Lycanthropy is spread via bites. That said, depends on how you view it. I'm pretty sure that becoming a lycanthrope won't affect your character's ability to think like it normally would otherwise. If anyone other than the half-dragon can survive getting nibbled, you might even be tempted to try and make the thing bite you. :smallwink:

Actually, first becoming a afflicted lycantrophe sucks because you don't get control the first time.
Your basically an Evil (if werewolf ) NPC until you change back (alignment returns to normal after the change). After the first change you can control it (with skill Control Shape).

[Lycanthromancer]

The way lycanthropy is done in D&D pretty well sucks anyway. You either A.) have absolutely no control over your actions when you shapeshift, and go on an orgy of slaughter, or B.) you gain control of your actions while shapeshifted but automatically relish slaughtering innocent creatures for some inadequately explored reason.

So, you either rampage willingly or you don't put any effort at controlling yourself (which is completely irresponsible) and rampage unwillingly.

This basically means that in most games you either retire your character once they contract lycanthropy or your entire character concept is trashed (assuming you're not CE to begin with).

Really, it's as bad as death, barring houserules.

[Starbuck_II]

The way lycanthropy is done in D&D pretty well sucks anyway. You either A.) have absolutely no control over your actions when you shapeshift, and go on an orgy of slaughter, or B.) you gain control of your actions while shapeshifted but automatically relish slaughtering innocent creatures for some inadequately explored reason.

So, you either rampage willingly or you don't put any effort at controlling yourself (which is completely irresponsible) and rampage unwillingly.

This basically means that in most games you either retire your character once they contract lycanthropy or your entire character concept is trashed (assuming you're not CE to begin with).

Really, it's as bad as death, barring houserules.

Well, that mostly applies to evil ones.

Weretiger is safe. Your like a Druid, Neutral.
Bear is god too except for HD issue (so many means no level for a while)

[ericgrau]

Actually if you become a werewolf you can't control it for a while. And you might transform every time you take damage or during the 3 days of the full moon. You need to keep making wisdom checks to try to control it, then you can finally control it. Even then you have to make checks, and until you finally level up and take skill ranks in Control Shape the DCs will be hard to make. Even when you can control it, you're still chaotic evil when transformed, and transforming willingly changes your alignment even when not transformed. Fortunately you can hire a cleric to fix it when you get back to a large enough town to have a cleric with a high enough level. Or find some wolfsbane fast.

A weretiger would still be a problem. Natural tigers are also neutrally aligned.

[Lycanthromancer]

RAW, I can't play a CG or TN werewolf, and I can't play one without tons of racial HD and level adjustments, without houserules. This makes me a sad Lycan.

[martyboy74]

For the record, the DR of a werewolf is only bypassable by silver. Fire won't help. Acid won't help. Magic weaponry won't help.

It should be noted however, that this only applies to attacks with physical weapons. Spells get by scot-free.

[Starbuck_II]

For the record, the DR of a werewolf is only bypassable by silver. Fire won't help. Acid won't help. Magic weaponry won't help.

It should be noted however, that this only applies to attacks with physical weapons. Spells get by scot-free.

Fire and acid bypass DR because DR only blocks Natural and weapon damage (reread the Monster Manual or was it the DMG for this reference).
Since energy is neither weapon nor natural: they go through DR.

[archon_huskie]

Why do you have to kill it in battle?

Throw your food at it. let it get full and then go to sleep.

Then chain it up. Then kill it.

[Triaxx]

My initial reaction is to threaten to make the DM snort his DMG. The second reaction is to politely explain that if he wants you to die in the most painful manner possible, then tell you, and you can role-play it, and start a new campaign.

My third reaction is to Prepare as follows: Rogue on one side of the door, Half-Dragon opposite. Ranger a few steps back where he can shoot at the Werewolf. Cleric uses Enlarge on the Rogue. Sorceror stands with one square between him and the Half-Dragon. The Ranger stands so he's got a shot. He shoots. If the werewolf goes hybrid, it's going to charge and attack the Sorceror. This means he takes two AoO's, including the Sneak attack bonus for being flanked, the extra weapon damage from the Rogue being enlarged, and then whatever the wolf can do to him. He'll get to the Sorceror, and if the Sorceror doesn't go down instantly, he can blast off Color Spray. If you have a turn to prepare, then cast Mage Armor. If not, prepare to cast Color Spray as soon as he's in the sorceror's face.

[Thurbane]

For the record, the DR of a werewolf is only bypassable by silver. Fire won't help. Acid won't help. Magic weaponry won't help.

It should be noted however, that this only applies to attacks with physical weapons. Spells get by scot-free.
As does alchemical fire, any form of acid etc. Damage Reduction and Energy Resistance are unrelated.

AFAIK, a standard werewolf has no innate defence from fire or acid, magical or otherwise, unless it gets it through a spell, item, another template or base creature...

For instance, a +1 flaming, non-silver longsword would inflict (1d8+1-10)+1d6 damage to a werwolf. The figure in (brackets) cannot go below zero, meaning that a blow would always inflict at least 1d6 damage...

[Talic]

^ They're touch attacks, so hitting should be easy. Plus if they fail to ignite you can always torch him later. Werewolves only have 20 HP, so this combined with cantrips from the sorc and damage from the half-dragon and rogue sneak attacks wouldn't take the party long to drop him. But I think the OP said they had no oil.

Even if they did, improvised weapon -4 penalty.
Assume rogue has a +7 to hit (+5 Dex, +1 BAB, +1 Point Blank shot), which is generous.

Weapon has a range increment of 10 feet.

So, at 10 feet, you take a -2 penalty to hit, bringing the total penalty to -6. Either that or provoke an AoO when you throw, which is NOT optimal.

Now, we've got a +1 effectively to hit, after modifiers.

Assume the Lycanthrope has a +2 dex (conservative estimate). Touch AC is now 12. Roll needs an 11 or better to hit. As I stated, a coin toss. Then there's the 50/50 ignite chance, which means that now, we have a 1 in 4 chance of doing anything at all, even with a 2nd level ranged specialist.

No, the attack is too unreliable to use, considering it takes a move action to draw, a full round action just to prepare, and a standard to throw. That's an attack rate of 1 per 2 rounds, followed by a hit rate of 1 in 4, so you're looking in 1 hit for minimal damage every 8 rounds. Far too inefficient. Better to stick with Aiding/tripping/flanking.

****
Contrast this with a Human Half Dragon fighter with a 26 strength. (18 base +8 template mod)

Enlarge boosts to 28 strength. (+9 mod)
Assuming a Greatsword, the attack will be at +10 (9 str, 2 bab, -1 size), for 3d6+13, or 23.5 average damage (13.5 after DR). With power attack, this goes to +8 to hit for 17.5 damage after DR. If the sword's masterwork, make that a +9. Add in flanking and aid another? +13. If one person manages to trip? +17. Include the fact that one way or another, reach or standing from trip provokes an AoO, and you've pretty much got the critter down.

Note: Charge + Leap attack will provide the extra oomph needed to one shot, as will replacing the human base race with Orc (pure orc, not half orc). There are a wealth of actions, but the huge added accuracy bonus, damage bonus, and reduced time required to attack means that it's more efficient. Even without the charge, the sorceror can likely toss on a magic missile or somesuch to finish it off.

[ericgrau]

I would hope that an ECL 4 half-dragon would do better than the ECL 2 rogue. A better comparison would be to compare rogue to rogue. Or better yet ranger to ranger or cleric to cleric, since I already said the half-dragon and rogue should be attacking while those two chuck oil if they have it and the sorc chucks damage cantrips.

If you check at www.d20srd.org, the werewolf has a touch AC of 12 and a regular AC of 16. Splash weapons, like oil, do not have improvised weapon penalties to hit. Depending on how far away he is, his chance to hit could be better.



A pint of oil burns for 6 hours in a lantern. You can use a flask of oil as a splash weapon


Splash weapons require no weapon proficiency, so you don’t take the -4 nonproficiency penalty

The half-dragon should be level 1 and still waiting to catch up in xp with the party (otherwise he's ECL 5, and even more imba). The sorcerer does not know enlarge person prepared, would impose a size penalty to AB that would balance out the bonus to strength, gives -2 AC and it would consume a precious round that he could use for a color spray instead (the spell that he does have). That has a 60%+ chance of royally screwing the werewolf over for 1d4+1 rounds. Much better.

1 BAB + 8 str (assuming 26 strength at most) = 9 AB, maybe 10 with a masterwork weapon. 75% chance to hit times 9 average damage (after DR) = 6.75 damage per round. 70% x 11 = 7.7 if he has power attack. Aid another gives 80% x 11 = 8.8 if it succeeds. 1.1 more damage on average. A flask of oil gives 2d6 damage over two rounds, for 7 average damage. Assuming 5 AB for the ranger (2 BAB + 3 str), he hits the aid another "AC" of 10 80% of the time. His flask hits the touch AC 12 wolf 55% of the time, assuming a range of 10-15 feet (-2 AB). 50% x 55% x 7 / (2 rounds) = 0.9625 avg. 80% x 1.1 = 0.88 avg. The two tactics are almost the same in effectiveness, but the flask of oil is a little better. That assumes 50% failure from failing to ignite. In the likely event that someone lights the unlit oil later (perhaps with another oil flask or a torch), the average damage of the oil doubles.

But they don't have oil, so their best option left is aid another :smalltongue:.

EDIT: Wait a second. 1 damage per round either way? Forget everything I said in this thread until this point. Cleric, ranger and rogue stay back so the sorc doesn't hit you with color spray. Half-dragon attack. When sorc runs out of color sprays, cleric and ranger go grapple the werewolf to give him -2 AC, -11 (!) AC if they manage a pin. Since the werewolf only has 1 AoO per round, and the two of them get twice the grapple checks, it should work pretty well. The werewolf only has 15 strength and 2 BAB, for a grapple mod of +4. Natural attacks count as light weapons for grappling, so thats a -4 to hit. Unarmed damage (via grapple checks) is 1d2+str nonlethal IIRC if the werewolf tries to avoid the -4. Plus this lets the rogue sneak attack the werewolf. You have no chance of accidentally hitting your grappling ally in melee, only range. Yeah, that's way better.

[Renx]

For ridiculously good Cleric spells, I'd recommend reading Frostburn.

1st level ice slick - 20' square of slippery ice, anyone wanting to walk on it has to make a BALANCE check for 1rd/level or be stopped or fall down. Pile up those modifiers and let your sorcerer/bowman blast blast blast while your foes slip futilely! mwahahaha.

1st again, Shivering touch - 1d6 dex damage at 1st level? LUDICROUS.

2nd level - obscuring snow

3rd level - shivering touch - 3d6 dex damage? That gives you about cleric level rounds of automatic crits against any regular critter -- including and not limited to very old dragons. Empowered, 5..27 dex damage. Ouch.

4th level - frostburn, 3d12 +1/lvl frostburn damage. Doesn't heal well, some penalties.
4th - Freeze armour. Basically freeze up metal armour and equipment, making them useless.

5th lvl - Frostbite - 6d6 cold damage, 2d6 dex damage for 1 creature/2 levels. HURTS.

Or you could just go Clericzilla and hog all the kills.

[Lycanthromancer]

Any word on how the fight's gone? We're all on the edge of our seats here. ^_^

[TrogdorX]

Well, it didn't go anywhere near what we'd planned, that was for sure. We played yesterday and we started the session by having the Ranger who'd taken the surprise crossbow shot from the werewolf step back into the other room, and the Rogue locked the door behind him. We healed him with a potion and then "debated" on the course of action. We settled with the idea of having the Half-Dragon Fighter grapple him since they are immune to contracting lycanthropy, while the rest of us would start using torches or spells and such to beat it up.

It was then that the DM pointed out that we'd let one kobold escape from the previous encounter that had fled through the alchemists room, so we figured we'd quickly backtrack to make sure we didn't get jumped from behind by a reinforcement of other monsters. In doing so we found some random items, including some potions of alchemist fire and a nifty two-bladed sword that had a bonus vs. Humans and flames on command, so we were thinking "Sweet! That werewolf is gonna get pwned now!" So we headed back to find that the room was still locked, but after sneaking in we found it empty. The ranger and rogue tracked it to a back wall and a secret door.

We follow the secret door and path to another room, only to find a circle of robed cultists standing around a magic circle with a glowing rune in the middle, with the aforementioned werewolf skewered on a corkscrew looking spear with silver all over it. Apparently he ran for help and ended up becoming the sacrifice for a Summon Planar Ally spell that was bringing in a Horned Devil. So we used our surprise round to jump them and try to interrupt the spell.

We finished battle and afterwards got a bit of a chuckle at the fact that we'd spent all that time trying to plot out how to defeat this werewolf only to never actually have to face it, but we did face 13 cultist mages, including their master. :smallbiggrin: Thank you to everyone who gave us ideas and better ideas of how the rules worked in fighting it, as it really started our party thinking together on how to use what we had in standard and unconventional ways.

[Aquillion]

It sounds like your DM realized that you were likely screwed vs. the werewolf. :smallbiggrin:

[Lycanthromancer]

At least your DM isn't like one I played with.

We were level 16.

He threw a level 60 demigod at us, divine powers and all, and expected us to win.

The really fubar'd thing about it was, we did. :smalleek:

[d13]

I still have 2 questions...

* Why in the world is that ECL 5 Half-Dragon adventuring with a bunch of ECL 2... things?

* Why didn't that half dragon use his 6d8 Breath Weapon, and made that werewolf explode?

[DancingMonkey]

I still have 2 questions...

* Why in the world is that ECL 5 Half-Dragon adventuring with a bunch of ECL 2... things?

* Why didn't that half dragon use his 6d8 Breath Weapon, and made that werewolf explode?

1) The Half-Dragon hasn't been gaining Class levels, and has had his Half-Dragon "benefits" slowly added at each level up. We hit level 4 after fighting the Cultists and he just barely received his full STR and Natural AC, as well as his full Breath Weapon.

2) We actually had added that as part of the new plan, a contingency at least, but ended up using it on the Cultists instead. Worked very nicely there.

As for the comparison of the Wolf vs. the larger group - oddly enough the "minion" Cultists all ended up being effectively level 3, and their master a splendid level 6. :P Thankfully for us between a nice surprise round, 1 Color Spray, 1 Breath Weapon and having killed 6 of the minions before the Master showed we took him out after only one action. His first action, however, did about 35-40 combined damage to the entire party. It very nearly could've ended just as badly as the Wolfy would've had our rolls not all been very nice. :)

[Talic]

And that? That is the ideal use of color spray. Multiple foes in a tight area. Especially if the meatsticks have an action to get in the way after the spell, but before the baddies.

The wolf would have been just as difficult as 13 cultists and a boss. Probably a little less so. the Cultists just gives the whole party a chance to feel like they're doing something effective. Sounds like your DM made a very good play to support party involvement, as well as a quick lesson.

Carry silver, or at least, silversheen.

[DancingMonkey]

And that? That is the ideal use of color spray. Multiple foes in a tight area. Especially if the meatsticks have an action to get in the way after the spell, but before the baddies.

The wolf would have been just as difficult as 13 cultists and a boss. Probably a little less so. the Cultists just gives the whole party a chance to feel like they're doing something effective. Sounds like your DM made a very good play to support party involvement, as well as a quick lesson.

Carry silver, or at least, silversheen.

Never heard of silversheen. What is it specifically?

[Seonor]

Silversheen (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/magicItems/WondrousItems.htm#silversheen).

[TrogdorX]

Silversheen (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/magicItems/WondrousItems.htm#silversheen).

Thank you for the link! Not only is it informative, but it finally gave me a chance to remember to bookmark d20srd.org. :smallsmile: I will definitely add that to my shopping list when we return to town and sell off what we aren't using, especially if we can't find any silver weapons.

Just curious as this was something we'd discussed when we thought we'd be taking out the werewolf ourselves, is it possible to skin a werewolf to make hide armor of any sort that would retain the werewolves natural damage reduction? Haven't found anything on my own yet to say one way or the other on that.

[Fixer]

Just curious as this was something we'd discussed when we thought we'd be taking out the werewolf ourselves, is it possible to skin a werewolf to make hide armor of any sort that would retain the werewolves natural damage reduction? Haven't found anything on my own yet to say one way or the other on that.
A werewolf, once slain, reverts to their non-wolf form.

So, if it was human, you would be skinning a human and wearing its skin as armor. I doubt that would give you DR. ;)