Multiwand fighting?

[Malacode]

I've jsut had an idea: A caster who, rather than use their spells per day, wields a ridiculous number of wands both bought and self-crafted. Ok, so it's not that original... Yet. First, we start with a non-psi Thri-keen. Then the Insectile template for four MORE arms. Next, a few levels in a spellcasting class, probably Wizard with many ranks in UMD or a multiclass Wizlock. After that, the Fang of Lolth PrC. All of the feats taken are wand based, with things like dual wand wielding (Taken multiple times if that works, maybe work with the DM to come up with a feat like Multiattack for wands). With a total of twelve arms you're letting off multiple spells a round (At the cost of a LOT of charges) and getting in a few claw attacks if need be. Obviously this is't exactly well thought out yet, what with all the flaws and all (So few casting levels, for example. LA 6 needs work on. A way of doing this that doesn't rely on the DM allowing you to stack Dual Wand Wielding... So most of it), but I still think a giant, 14-limbed insect wand user is a pretty cool concept, even if it's because it's so odd to imagine.

[jcsw]

Play an artificer instead of wizard/warlock. It's made for these things. Plus you can craft your own wands more efficiently.

[Tokiko Mima]

Just promise not to name two of your wands Hurt and Burn (http://www.penny-arcade.com/comic/2006/5/19/), ok? :smallamused:

[Kurald Galain]

First, we start with a non-psi Thri-keen. Then the Insectile template for four MORE arms.

That makes about as much sense as making a Half-dragon Dragon. :smallbiggrin:

[Malacode]

Maybe Thri-keen evolved from lobsters? That's actually one of the few parts of the idea that IS RAW, oddly enough. And why can't I name them Hurt and Burn? I wanna make my enemies rue the day they were born. Rue it hard.

[bosssmiley]

I'd like to congratulate the OP on making the Caterpillar from "Alice in Wonderland" into a D&D character. His is an excellent "Dungeonland" homage. :smallamused:

[Malacode]

Ok, now he's wielding a wand of Prestidigitation in his mouth as well. For all the floating letters.

[Waspinator]

Definitely go Artificer. They're better at making magic items (that's what the class is about) and stuff like that one homonculus that lets you start an item, walk away, and let the homonculus finish it for you would be very useful in letting you adventure while crafting.

Also, that Cannith Wand Adept prestige class from Sharn: City of Towers may be worth looking in to.

[LurkerInPlayground]

Just promise not to name two of your wands Hurt and Burn (http://www.penny-arcade.com/comic/2006/5/19/), ok? :smallamused:
"I am Grimm Shado," said Grimm Shado, his triple wand claws extending. "And I'm here to take it to the limit."

[sonofzeal]

What wands work well with a double-wanding Artificer? I'll be playing one shortly, and leaning towards Scorching Ray / Seeking Ray, with Split Ray off both, for 16d6 damage (at the cost of 7 charges). Is there a better combo?

[Thurbane]

Just promise not to name two of your wands Hurt and Burn (http://www.penny-arcade.com/comic/2006/5/19/), ok? :smallamused:
Pardon my total ignorance, but could you please tell me - is that comic a parody of an actual book, or entirely fictitious? I used to be an avid PA reader, but I haven't read it in a long time.

Sorry for the OT. :smallredface:

[PinkysBrain]

Scorching Ray is the default, an orb wand to bypass SR is handy too though.

[Eldariel]

What wands work well with a double-wanding Artificer? I'll be playing one shortly, and leaning towards Scorching Ray / Seeking Ray, with Split Ray off both, for 16d6 damage (at the cost of 7 charges). Is there a better combo?

Usual blaster Artificer:
Empower Spell
Energy Admixture (and the prereq, obv)
Twin Spell (more versatile than Split Ray; if you're fine without the Orbs, Split Ray works, but Twin Spell has many more applications)
Wand Mastery (cuts some off the wand-costs)

this gets you 4x * 1.5 spell effect. Then you just get Two-Weapon Fighting>Dual Wand Wielder, Quicken Spell and blast opponent 3 times per turn for Massive Damage. Wand-costs are multiplied as you add spell levels making it uneconomic; I strongly suggest Lesser Orb of Acid as your principal Wand. You get maximum effect at CL 9 (so you only need CL 7 Wand thanks to Wand Mastery) instead of CL 11 and a lower level slot, at the cost of few points of damage (7.5 to be precise), but is SR: No (which is huge for Wands with set CL). There's Energy Alteration Infusion, which allows you to switch the energy type when Acid doesn't cut it. The price difference is fairly huge:
CL7 Lesser Orb of Acid Wand: 5250 gp (CL 9 = 6750 gp)
CL9 Wand of Scorching Ray: 13500 gp (CL 11 = 16500 gp)

You can keep a Wand of Scorching Ray around later on (if your party has a character with Mercantile Background and you have Legendary and Extraordinary Artisan-feats, you'll have plenty of cash). Then, when you need maximum damage, get a CL 13 Orb of X Wand (I suggest Fire). Then, keep one CL8 Orb of Force-wand around for Medium Range (easily 200' at least) and incorporeal/energy immune opponents. If you imagine you'll come up in scenarios where you want to hit targets further than that (that is, you have means of detection that allow you to attack further than 200' and open areas), it may be savvy to pack a Wand of Given Long Range Burn-spell.

[Inyssius Tor]

Pardon my total ignorance, but could you please tell me - is that comic a parody of an actual book, or entirely fictitious? I used to be an avid PA reader, but I haven't read it in a long time.

Sorry for the OT. :smallredface:

Entirely (http://elothtes.pbwiki.com/RealLifeTimeLine#1980) f (http://www.penny-arcade.com/comic/2005/11/07/)ictional (http://elothtes.pbwiki.com/The+Elemenstor+Cycle).

[Tokiko Mima]

Pardon my total ignorance, but could you please tell me - is that comic a parody of an actual book, or entirely fictitious? I used to be an avid PA reader, but I haven't read it in a long time.

Sorry for the OT. :smallredface:

It's entirely fake, though there are those that go to extreme lengths to pretend that such a work does actually exist (http://tsots.pbwiki.com/). L. H. Franzibald is also not a real author, or at least if there is an auther with that name, he didn't write TSotS. L. H. Franzibald as he appears in the comic is actually a light-hearted parody of Tim Buckley of CTRL + ALT + DELETE.

So short answer: Penny Arcade made both books up for the yuks. :smallsmile:

[Lycanthromancer]

Try springing for some eternal wands, in addition to regular wands. They'll be much cheaper in the long run, though you won't be able to metamagic them as much. That's okay, though, because you'll still have a few of those regular wands to burn through.

[sonofzeal]

Usual blaster Artificer:
Empower Spell
Energy Admixture (and the prereq, obv)
Twin Spell (more versatile than Split Ray; if you're fine without the Orbs, Split Ray works, but Twin Spell has many more applications)
Wand Mastery (cuts some off the wand-costs)

this gets you 4x * 1.5 spell effect. Then you just get Two-Weapon Fighting>Dual Wand Wielder, Quicken Spell and blast opponent 3 times per turn for Massive Damage. Wand-costs are multiplied as you add spell levels making it uneconomic; I strongly suggest Lesser Orb of Acid as your principal Wand. You get maximum effect at CL 9 (so you only need CL 7 Wand thanks to Wand Mastery) instead of CL 11 and a lower level slot, at the cost of few points of damage (7.5 to be precise), but is SR: No (which is huge for Wands with set CL). There's Energy Alteration Infusion, which allows you to switch the energy type when Acid doesn't cut it. The price difference is fairly huge:
CL7 Lesser Orb of Acid Wand: 5250 gp (CL 9 = 6750 gp)
CL9 Wand of Scorching Ray: 13500 gp (CL 11 = 16500 gp)

You can keep a Wand of Scorching Ray around later on (if your party has a character with Mercantile Background and you have Legendary and Extraordinary Artisan-feats, you'll have plenty of cash). Then, when you need maximum damage, get a CL 13 Orb of X Wand (I suggest Fire). Then, keep one CL8 Orb of Force-wand around for Medium Range (easily 200' at least) and incorporeal/energy immune opponents. If you imagine you'll come up in scenarios where you want to hit targets further than that (that is, you have means of detection that allow you to attack further than 200' and open areas), it may be savvy to pack a Wand of Given Long Range Burn-spell.
Excellent advice!

I actually went in the other direction - CL1 Seeking/Scorching Ray wands (legal, since text specifically describes making CL3 Fireball scrolls) for 1500 gp each. Damage potential is reduced, but far more economical; with Dual Wand + Split Ray, I'm using 7 charges (so, 79 gp) to do 16d6 damage, which will hardly ever miss due to Seeking. I'm not a Blastificer though; I know if I put more money into it then I could do better, but I consider my character to be the support/skillmonkey/debuffer of the team. At the same time, I'd like my damage output to be as efficient and effective as possible.

How much is your combo doing, and for what price? I figure (with cost-reduction techniques) something like 51 gp per charge, each doing a base 5d8 damage. I realize the max damage is significantly higher, but we have cash flow issues so far in the campaign; we're on an isolated plane, and while we have a base, our income is generally what we loot, and most of the people worth looting are at least as powerful as we are.

FYI, relevant pieces of my character that are already established: Strongheart Artificer/Fleshwarper, ECL 12, has Wand Mastery, Split Ray, Persist Spell, and is just about to pick up Dual Wand Wielder. Has been relying on Scorching/Seeking Ray for damage so far, but also has higher-CL Magic Missile for emergencies, and Ray of Enfeeblement/Clumsiness/Exhaustion for debuffs.

[Keld Denar]

No one has mentioned Enervation? As a 4th level spell, it weighs in at a hefty 21,000 gold, or 420 (heh) a charge. Extraordinary/Legendary Artisen helps a lot with this though.

Empowered Split Maximized averages 10.5 negative levels per hit. DWW it for another 10.5, and MMST: Quicken one for another 10.5 negative levels.

Sure, its hellaciously expensive, but how else can you turn someone from Hero to Wight in 6 seconds with no save?

[sonofzeal]

No one has mentioned Enervation? As a 4th level spell, it weighs in at a hefty 21,000 gold, or 420 (heh) a charge. Extraordinary/Legendary Artisen helps a lot with this though.

Empowered Split Maximized averages 10.5 negative levels per hit. DWW it for another 10.5, and MMST: Quicken one for another 10.5 negative levels.

Sure, its hellaciously expensive, but how else can you turn someone from Hero to Wight in 6 seconds with no save?
How many charges would that take, total, to get 21 negative levels in a round?


Similarly, with the Orb of Acid combo, how many charges are we talking about?