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Dyllan
2009-01-19, 09:57 AM
I'm going to be running a campaign in a world with no divine magic (there used to be divine magic, but the gods are all gone now). The party will start with an artifact that can cast cure light wounds at CL 5, 3 times a day.

One of the first places they plan to go is a recenly burned down temple. Below the temple, they'll find an untouched catacombs. It's untouched because it was hidden by the church that operated on top of it until recently.

These constructs could detect divine magical ability - specifically access to the healing domain and the ability to cast level 4 spells. Anyone without that domain and ability was unable to pass. Since the gods disappeared, no one has been able to pass the constructs, and the church was unwilling to destroy them to access the catacombs, because they were considered holy relics of their god (of mercy and healing).

My question is, what kind of constructs should I use? Something from any of the MM's, homebrew, or whatever works. I suppose there don't have to be two of them... two just seemed like the right number.

The party will consist of a Half-Dragon Were-baboon Sorcerer (1 animal HD, 2 sorcerer HD), a Catfolk Were-Leopord Rogue (3 animal HD, 2 Rogue HD), and one or two fighter types with 2 HD in their class of choice and 3 HD in some were-creature, probably with 1 ECL base races.

I want it to be a challenge to enter, as the constructs will not react until attacked or until they attempt to pass them. But as healing is limited, I don't really want to make it TOO deadly. They shouldn't have any deaths unless they seriously screw up. There's a chance the rogue will try to use UMD to pass, and there's even a chance she'll succeed, but as that would only allow her access, not the rest of the party, I expect a fight.

Thanks,

Dyllan

Keld Denar
2009-01-19, 12:40 PM
Sounds like a case for Topiary Guardians, from MMIV, I think. They are shrubberies that ambush you when you walk down the path. Put them in a temple courtyard next to some benches. Mention that they are suprisingly well manicured, despite the abandoned temple, but don't bring any more attention to them. They should be pretty much in the power level range you are looking for.

Also, a Stone Golem would be perfect, flavor wise, for an abandoned temple, but would crush your party in seconds. I'd recommend something like a Flesh Golem, and then just re-skin it to look like a Stone Golem. Players never have to know, unless they've memorized the MM. Even then, a Flesh Golem would be a hard fight for them, so I'd put it at the end of the dungeon as a "boss" type encounter.

Best of luck!

Greg
2009-01-19, 01:02 PM
A few Warforged, reskinned. Give them adamantine plating and a range of weapons. Give them class levels and let them fight it out.

RTGoodman
2009-01-19, 01:06 PM
How about some statues (i.e., Animated Objects (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/monsters/animatedObject.htm)) of the gods that are now gone? Two Large animated objects should be an EL 5 encounter (which is about right for your party), or two Huge ones would be an EL 7 encounter (a challenging fight). Just give them the extra ability to detect divine magic however you need it to and you're all set.

Dyllan
2009-01-19, 02:43 PM
You're right that Stone Golems would be perfect, thematically. I hadn't even considered using Warforged or Animated objects. I think I'll go for the latter for these, and leave Warforged for later.

Honestly, it's not going to be much of a dungeon. I don't plan to have anything nasty down there - it's been pretty well sealed since the gods left. But it's going to be a small treasure trove of divine magic - the scrolls, wands and other trinkets I decide to put in there will be the primary source of healing for the party for some time.

Thanks,

-Dyllan

Keld Denar
2009-01-19, 02:58 PM
Yea, Topiary Guardians would be perfect single encounter then. Make them come through a gate into a courtyard with 1 or 2 of them, and then branching off from the courtyard are a few rooms. In one of the rooms is a rack with a couple Healing Belts (Magic Item Compendium). Healing Belts would be PERFECT for what you are looking for.

They have 3 charges. If you use 1 charge, you can heal for 2d6 hp. If you use 2 charges at once, you get 3d6, and if you use 3 you get 4d6. Standard action activation. Thus, if you use it out of combat, you can get 6d6 worth of healing by using the charges 1 at a time. In combat though, when you need emergeny healing, blowing all 3 charges only costs you 1 action, because actions in combat are very valuable.

Useful?

ShneekeyTheLost
2009-01-19, 03:12 PM
A re-flavored Gargoyle (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/monsters/gargoyle.htm) would also be thematically appropriate, and as a CR 4 encounter, probably on par for what your party should be facing.

I'm surprised no one wanted to play Bard. They're one of the very few Arcane classes that can get Cure x Wounds spells.

Dyllan
2009-01-19, 03:22 PM
A re-flavored Gargoyle (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/monsters/gargoyle.htm) would also be thematically appropriate, and as a CR 4 encounter, probably on par for what your party should be facing.

I'm surprised no one wanted to play Bard. They're one of the very few Arcane classes that can get Cure x Wounds spells.

My players hate bards with a passion. Also, they realized that, were they to play bard, they'd never get to cast anything but healing spells. Like Cleric heal-bot syndrome, but much worse due to a lower total healing capacity.

Honestly, I prefer it this way. Rationing healing will add a serious level of strategy to the game that rarely exists above level 3 or so when Clerics are around.

I think I will use some Topiary guardians. And maybe changing the theme, but keeping the stats, of gargoyles would be better than the animated objects. Or I can do both, one type for the entrance, and one to guard a treasure room (where they find the raise dead items).

-Dyllan

ShneekeyTheLost
2009-01-19, 03:28 PM
My players hate bards with a passion. Also, they realized that, were they to play bard, they'd never get to cast anything but healing spells. Like Cleric heal-bot syndrome, but much worse due to a lower total healing capacity.

Honestly, I prefer it this way. Rationing healing will add a serious level of strategy to the game that rarely exists above level 3 or so when Clerics are around.

I think I will use some Topiary guardians. And maybe changing the theme, but keeping the stats, of gargoyles would be better than the animated objects. Or I can do both, one type for the entrance, and one to guard a treasure room (where they find the raise dead items).

-Dyllan

Bards are a spontanious casting class. Sure, one spell per spell level is going to be a heal spell, but there's other spells they have that are quite useful. Haste and Slow both are very handy spells, and on the Bard's spell list.

I like them, personally, but I guess YMMV...

Dyllan
2009-01-20, 09:43 AM
Bards are a spontanious casting class. Sure, one spell per spell level is going to be a heal spell, but there's other spells they have that are quite useful. Haste and Slow both are very handy spells, and on the Bard's spell list.

I like them, personally, but I guess YMMV...

Yes, I realize that they'll know other spells. The question is, how often will they be able to afford using other spells, instead of using everything for healing? As the primary healer in a normal party, I think a Bard would find himself using most, if not all, his daily allotment of spells on healing. In a world where no other class gets any healing at all, this is even more likely.

Still, I'm not arguing that Bards are a bad class, just saying my players think Bards are a bad class, and that they would probably be less fun to play in this setting.

-Dyllan

Darrin
2009-01-20, 10:20 AM
My question is, what kind of constructs should I use? Something from any of the MM's, homebrew, or whatever works. I suppose there don't have to be two of them... two just seemed like the right number.


Carytid Columns (Fiend Folio p. 30) are pretty much your standard go-to whenever you need two constructs guarding a door. CR sounds a bit high for the party, though... one Carytid is CR6, two would be CR8, and the break weapon ability would probably just make the party extremely bitter.

Two Boar topiary guardians (CR3 + CR3 = CR5) sounds more manageable for the group you describe.

I'd probably put in a password or some other way to bypass the guardians, if the PCs are willing to do a little work. I like to have every challenge the PCs face have at least two different solutions. There are three primary ways to get past an obstacle:

1) Violence.
2) Social Engineering.
3) Specialist abilities.

The first one is easy enough. #2 usually boils down to roleplaying or talking to NPCs. "That old man in the tavern back at the village seemed to know a lot about the priests that used to live here. Maybe if we buy him his favorite wine, he could tell us the password to get past the guardians?" Another variation would be the guardian challenges the PCs with a riddle or some other social interaction puzzle. The guardian may want something, and if the PCs are clever, they could talk to it and find out what it wants. Guardian: "You know, I used to have a statue of a falcon sitting on my shoulder, but last month some looters broke it off and ran off with it. If you could find out what happened to my falcon, I'd be more than happy to let you through the gate."

#3 is usually class-specific abilities or a skill that one particular character may be good at. For example, you mentioned the rogue with UMD. A wizard casting a spell (invisibility to sneak past the guardians, knock to open a door without a key, etc.) can also be a specialist. Bardic Knowledge or someone with Knowledge: Religion could describe the costumes the ancient priests might have worn, and a rogue could create disguises to get them past the guardians. A ranger notices wolf prints going past the guardians, suggesting that maybe the local druid knows a way past the guardians. A search/spot/knowledge roll might reveal acid damage on the remains of a similar guardian, maybe a clue that the guardians have a weakness that can be exploited.