Covenant vs Star Wars Empire.

[An Enemy Spy]

The Covenent have wound up in the star wars galaxy for some reason or other (Probably involving Forrunner tech) and are shocked to find humans there. So they get to work on their genocide. Naturally, Emporer Palpy is none to pleased about all this and decides to fight back.

Btw, the Covenent is Pre Schism so they do have Sangheili.

[Texas_Ben]

Empire hands-down. It takes them a good while to wear down humans in the haloverse, and their (haloverse humans) tech is not nearly as advanced as starwars tech.
Covenant tech is pretty insipid actually. I'd love to write more but I'm pretty hungover and my head hurts, so I'll wait until someone else writes something interesting and then we'll have ourselves a discussion.

[An Enemy Spy]

I dunno. UNSC soldiers can shoot straight, Stormtroopers can't. And the Covenant don't ever conquer planets for the Empire to retake either. They just glass them. From what I've seen seen of star wars (Granted, thats just the movies) the Empire doesn't have any infantry that match a Sangheili in battle. Even a Kig-Yar would probably be a match for stormtroopers. Banshees on the other hand, probably wouldn't be able to match the Empires air vehicles, but I don't know enough about that. Even if the Covenant lose the ground war, they can simply pull back and glass the planet. Also, they might be able to convert some of the aliens in the Galaxy. We all know they don't like the Empire.

[Renegade Paladin]

The Empire, hands down. The Imperial Starfleet could crush the Covenant navy beneath its boot without even breaking a sweat; they're nowhere near the same tech level.

[The Glyphstone]

Also, keep in mind that Imperial Stormtrooper Marksmanship Academy training only takes effect in the presence of designated protaganists, so the stormtroopers have the capability to be excellent shots against any Covenant except the Arbiter, if he's around in this Vs.

[kpenguin]

I'd also like to point out that logistics come out in favor of the Galactic Empire. The Covenant control a large portion of one of the spiral arms of the Milky Way. The Galactic Empire... controls a galaxy.

[xanaphia]

Star Wars Empire. The Covenant aren't anywhere near as big, as powerful, or as high tech. Covenant has Energy Swords, Star Wars Empire has Lightsabers. Both are elite, but Lightsabers are a hell of a lot better.

[An Enemy Spy]

I obviously made a mistake when I pitted my two favorite sci-fi antagonists against eachother. Obviously the Covenant couldn't possibly defeat the entire Empire.
So let's move the action to a smaller scale. A Covenant fleet about the same size as the one that attacked Reach advances on an Imperial planet. (You will have to explain to me how Imperial planetary defense work.) By the time reinforcements arrive, the battle will be over. Who will win?

[An Enemy Spy]

Star Wars Empire. The Covenant aren't anywhere near as big, as powerful, or as high tech. Covenant has Energy Swords, Star Wars Empire has Lightsabers. Both are elite, but Lightsabers are a hell of a lot better.

There's what, two people in the Empire with lightsabers as opposed to god knows how many Sangheli with energy swords?

[kpenguin]

So let's move the action to a smaller scale. A Covenant fleet about the same size as the one that attacked Reach advances on an Imperial planet. (You will have to explain to me how Imperial planetary defense work.) By the time reinforcements arrive, the battle will be over. Who will win?

The hyperspace technology of the Empire makes it unlikely that a battle will be over before reinforcements arrive, barring a gross imbalance in power.

[purple gelatinous cube o' Doom]

How about the Covenant against the Yuuzhan Vong? Now I haven't really read any of the NJO books, so I probably am not the best person to comment on this.

[An Enemy Spy]

The hyperspace technology of the Empire makes it unlikely that a battle will be over before reinforcements arrive, barring a gross imbalance in power.

How dare you bring logic and reason into this! All the Imperial ships on the way over get eaten by Michael Jackson and thus no help is coming.

How about the Covenant against the Yuuzhan Vong? Now I haven't really read any of the NJO books, so I probably am not the best person to comment on this.

I don't know what that is

[warty goblin]

This is actually a bit difficult. It strikes me that both have really quite large manufacturing bases, but the Covenent FTL is lightyears better than Star Wars,' which can count for a lot.

[An Enemy Spy]

One more note, please don't bring in the Sun Crusher!

[Renegade Paladin]

A Covenant fleet about the same size as the one that attacked Reach advances on an Imperial planet. (You will have to explain to me how Imperial planetary defense work.) By the time reinforcements arrive, the battle will be over. Who will win?
The Covenant can, obviously, glass the surface of a planet, though it takes them a significant amount of time to do this. Whether or not they do anything depends on whether or not the planet has a planetary shield. A major core system would hold out until the sector fleet showed up, simply because Star Wars planetary shields can hold off any bombardment the Star Wars universe can throw at it for days short of the Death Star or specialized torpedo spheres designed to penetrate the shield by overwhelming it at a small point and destroying the generator through the split-second hole that develops. A backwater like Tatooine might not; the fleet that destroyed Reach was exceedingly large, and unlike with the Star Trek powers, the tech disparity isn't so big that they stand no chance of overwhelming lighter Star Wars vessels or doing significant damage to the planet before a heavy ship could stop them thanks to their numbers.

At the end of the day, though, they can't defeat an Imperial war fleet. Their ships can be destroyed by a concerted effort by UNSC cruisers, which, while nothing to sneeze at, have nowhere near the offensive firepower of a Star Destroyer. This means their defensive capabilities simply aren't up to withstanding the firepower of Imperial warships.

This is actually a bit difficult. It strikes me that both have really quite large manufacturing bases, but the Covenent FTL is lightyears better than Star Wars,' which can count for a lot.
I somehow doubt that. Star Wars FTL can cross the galaxy in a day. If the Covenant had that kind of mobility, then there are two possibilities: One, that they control the galaxy, which we know is not the case. Two, that there's some other force powerful enough to stop them preventing them from doing one, which we know is not the case. I don't have any numbers for Covenant FTL speed, but the facts suggest that they don't have the kind of speed necessary for easy transit of the galaxy.

[An Enemy Spy]

What kind of defense does your average planet have? Are planetary shields common?

[kpenguin]

How dare you bring logic and reason into this! All the Imperial ships on the way over get eaten by Michael Jackson and thus no help is coming.

Impossible.

Michael Jackson is a normal human who is roughly 5'9'' and grossly underweight for that height. An Imperial stardestroyer is a little under a mile long. Any attempt to eat one would result in Mr. Jackson's body exploding.HA!

[An Enemy Spy]

Impossible.

Michael Jackson is a normal human who is roughly 5'9'' and grossly underweight for that height. An Imperial stardestroyer is a little under a mile long. Any attempt to eat one would result in Mr. Jackson's body exploding.HA!

I laugh at your statement. Everyone knows MJ isn't human!

[Renegade Paladin]

Depends on location in the galaxy and importance to the Empire. Core systems all have significant defenses, and God help them if they attack Coruscant. On the Outer Rim, you're not going to see that kind of heavy defense except on important planets and military bases.

In the case of not having a shield, everything depends on what ships are in system at the time. A flotilla of Star Destroyers would give the Covenant an exceedingly bad day.

I'll see if I can get some hard numbers for Covenant weapons and run a comparison tomorrow. Right now I need to go to bed; it's getting late for me.

[kpenguin]

I somehow doubt that. Star Wars FTL can cross the galaxy in a day. If the Covenant had that kind of mobility, then there are two possibilities: One, that they control the galaxy, which we know is not the case. Two, that there's some other force powerful enough to stop them preventing them from doing one, which we know is not the case. I don't have any numbers for Covenant FTL speed, but the facts suggest that they don't have the kind of speed necessary for easy transit of the galaxy.

Indeed. According to Halopedia (http://halo.wikia.com/wiki/Slipstream_Space), Covenant ships can reach a speed of 9.12 lightyears. For comparison, Alpha Centauri, the closest star system to ours, is 4.37 lightyears away.

Wookiepedia (http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Hyperspace) tells us that the travel time for Hyperspace varies greatly depending on hazards such as asteroid fields and gravity wells. For a good example of how fast hyperspace vehicles can travel, however, consider that the travel time between Alderaan and Tatooine is only 7 hours, despite being on separate ends of the galaxy.

[An Enemy Spy]

I'm gonna skip the space battle and move onto the ground for the moment. Obviosly, Sangheili are more then a match for stormtroopers, especially Zealots and Ultras. Yan'mee make exellent support troops due to their ability to move in behind and above the enemy. Unggoy would be about as effective as a pile of horse turd in small numbers, but when they are in massive groups, they are a force to be reckoned with, especially if there are Sangheili or Jarlhanae to keep them in line. Kig-Yar's energy sheild would probably be fairly ineffective against blasters, but that couple seconds before their sheild runs out would probably give them the edge against stormtroopers. And the troopers aim is so bad that a pair of Malekgolo could probably fight them with out having to worry about getting hit in the vulnerable spots.

[Mando Knight]

Galactic Empire. Sure, the largest Covenant warships are three times the length of an Imperial Star Destroyer, but the Executor out does them, and the Super Carrier.

Furthermore, the Empire has the ability to annihilate planets, not just make them uninhabitable.

On land, the AT-AT could very well prove to be the bane of the Covenant: most Covenant weapons are better against shields than armor... and the AT-AT is mostly armor. And heavy-caliber laser cannons. And is larger than the UNSC Scorpion.

On top of that, if the Covenant can be wasted by a single man in (rather good) power armor... could they stand a chance against the Ham (http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/LargeHam)peror (http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Palpatine) and Lord Vader (http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Anakin_Skywalker)?

Yes, the Covenant has some big, scary weapons. However, the GFFA as of the GCW was just a couple of decades after the last galaxy-spanning war... where even more big (http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Malevolence), scary (http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Heavy_Assault_Vehicle/wheeled_A6_Juggernaut) weapons (http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Separatist_Droid_Army) were both used and destroyed. And whose plans are likely still in the Emperor's possession.

...also, if the Covenant attacks during the Dark Trooper (http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Dark_trooper) project's life, and Katarn's efforts regarding its destruction are ignored, then the Covenant may be in for a devastating surprise.

[An Enemy Spy]

Galactic Empire. Sure, the largest Covenant warships are three times the length of an Imperial Star Destroyer, but the Executor out does them, and the Super Carrier.

Furthermore, the Empire has the ability to annihilate planets, not just make them uninhabitable.

On land, the AT-AT could very well prove to be the bane of the Covenant: most Covenant weapons are better against shields than armor... and the AT-AT is mostly armor. And heavy-caliber laser cannons. And is larger than the UNSC Scorpion.

On top of that, if the Covenant can be wasted by a single man in (rather good) power armor... could they stand a chance against the Ham (http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/LargeHam)peror (http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Palpatine) and Lord Vader (http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Anakin_Skywalker)?

Yes, the Covenant has some big, scary weapons. However, the GFFA as of the GCW was just a couple of decades after the last galaxy-spanning war... where even more big (http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Malevolence), scary (http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Heavy_Assault_Vehicle/wheeled_A6_Juggernaut) weapons (http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Separatist_Droid_Army) were both used and destroyed. And whose plans are likely still in the Emperor's possession.

...also, if the Covenant attacks during the Dark Trooper (http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Dark_trooper) project's life, and Katarn's efforts regarding its destruction are ignored, then the Covenant may be in for a devastating surprise.

What are the odds of Vader being on the planet? Plus, the Chief doesn't fight thousands of Covenant at a time. He's more of a spec-ops guy.

[Mando Knight]

What are the odds of Vader being on the planet?

Yeah... I kinda took too long to write my post, and missed a large amount of discussion... *facepalm*

Imperial planetary defenses are quite sufficient... if it's a planet that the Empire cares about. Coruscant and Byss are nearly unassailable due to their importance as the Emperor's main bases. Kuat is also a no-no, as the main ISD manufacturing plant has flotillas of ISDs... and an Executor-class or two. On an important planet, if the Covenant manages to get past the Empire's defense fleet, they'll still have to land. The Rebel's second-hand shield generator and defense systems installed on Hoth were capable of making Vader's Death Squadron (http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Death_Squadron) take a round-about path by launching a land invasion. The second Death Star was defended by a single shield generator complex... and was invulnerable to the Rebel main fleet before the strike team's efforts to lower the shield.

Attacking any of these planets (http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Fortress_world) is a mistake.

[Texas_Ben]

Indeed. According to Halopedia (http://halo.wikia.com/wiki/Slipstream_Space), Covenant ships can reach a speed of 9.12 lightyears. For comparison, Alpha Centauri, the closest star system to ours, is 4.37 lightyears away.
Light-years is a measure of distance, which is the distance that light can travel in a year. It is not a speed. Please clarify.

[Texas_Ben]

On land, the AT-AT could very well prove to be the bane of the Covenant: most Covenant weapons are better against shields than armor... and the AT-AT is mostly armor. And heavy-caliber laser cannons. And is larger than the UNSC Scorpion.
Let's talk about covenant armor while we're on the subject shall we? It's abysmal. Okay, that wasn't much talking, but it's true. Consider their heaviest piece of armor-- the scarab. It's pretty bad. Sure it's main weapon is pretty nasty, but it's extremely exposed... I mean you can shoot most of the crew right off of it! And it's (very volatile) power source is completely exposed. A well-trained and well motivated soldier armed with a rifle and a few grenades is perfectly capable of taking one out. Let's not even think about what real anti-armor weapons would do to it (The thing is massive, but not well armored. Remember that it was built as a mining machine).

[kpenguin]

Light-years is a measure of distance, which is the distance that light can travel in a year. It is not a speed. Please clarify.

Sorry. Lost my train of thought as I was typing that. I meant 9.12 lightyears per day.

[Mando Knight]

Light-years is a measure of distance, which is the distance that light can travel in a year. It is not a speed. Please clarify.

He means lightyears per day. Covenant ships max out at around 9 ly/day (http://halo.wikia.com/wiki/Slipstream_Space#Velocities). Star Wars ships can cross the galaxy in a matter of days (http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Hyperspace#Navigation). Star Wars vehicles have an advantage on four orders of magnitude.

[turkishproverb]

Light-years is a measure of distance, which is the distance that light can travel in a year. It is not a speed. Please clarify.

He might not be able to, it might just be bad science in the fiction.

EDIT: Crap. Already sorted out.

[Texas_Ben]

Sorry. Lost my train of thought as I was typing that. I meant 9.12 lightyears per day.
Thanks. It happens.

[Oslecamo]

The covenant couldn't stop a single nonprecon named guy from screwing them over.

Palpatine managed to crush an army of named lightsaber waving precon characters, including space ship crushing Yoda, army slaughterer Mace Windu and prodigy boy Anakin Skywalker

Empire hands down.

[Mr. Scaly]

And then there's the fact that Palpatine can devastate entire fleets on his lonesome.

[Llama231]

Are we assuming that the rebellion is taking place?
Because if so, the Empire would loose flat out.

[JerryMcJerrison]

Definitely Empire. Even assuming that for some strange reason that their ships are of comparable strength, the Covenant have grown fat and lazy, and are pretty much entirely dependent on the superior numbers and tech. They never learn from their mistakes, something that even the UNSC was able to take advantage of. Ignoring that, even, the Empire still wins because they'd eventually develop new and better weapons to deploy, where the Covenant have pretty much been using the same stuff for centuries.

On the ground though, I think the Covenant actually has the advantage, at least until someone with the Force comes to scramble their brains. Brutes, Elites, and Hunters are all MUCH stronger than humans, and they have personal energy shields. And they'd be much better equipped to fight lightsaber-bearers, since I doubt plasma would bounce off like a laser would.

[Mando Knight]

Palpatine managed to crush an army of named lightsaber waving precon characters, including space ship crushing Yoda, army slaughterer Mace Windu and prodigy boy Anakin Skywalker

AndStar Destroyer-slinging Galen Marek... after Palpatine decided to fight for real in the cutscene and being thrown around a bit in the boss fight.
If the Covenant make enough racket that Palpatine decides to take care of them personally, they're in for trouble without a Skywalker (http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Skywalker_family)... who, might I add, are human, like much of the Rebel Alliance, and thus would not be likely to ally with the human-killing Covenant.

Then there's Thrawn. Without "Lady Vader (http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Leia_Organa_Solo)"'s intervention regarding the Noghri assassins, he was more than a match for the New Republic, which by that time had plenty of stolen Imperial tech and Coruscant.

[Texas_Ben]

On the ground though, I think the Covenant actually has the advantage, at least until someone with the Force comes to scramble their brains. Brutes, Elites, and Hunters are all MUCH stronger than humans, and they have personal energy shields. And they'd be much better equipped to fight lightsaber-bearers, since I doubt plasma would bounce off like a laser would.
I'm not so sure. Covenant plasma weapons (which are by far the most common covenant weapons) cannot be reloaded... They are either discarded or (presumably) shipped off somewhere to be recharged. That means that most of your soldiers will be getting 100 shots or so, then they need to run off to a crate and grab a new gun. Because of this, I imagine that covenant ground forces are not able to operate independantly for extended periods. That means that in a serious ground war they have a big disadvantage. Covenant military doctrine centers around quick raids (the first arbiter level in Halo 2) and heavy strikes with overpowering force (Reach, Earth).
Also Brutes, Elites, and Hunters make up only a portion of the Covenant ground forces: Grunts and Jackals comprise the bulk of the infantry, and I don't give them anywhere near as good a chance as the upper echelons of the covenant heirarchy.

At any rate, the extreme limits on ammunition suffered by Covenant plasma weapons is a big disadvantage, One that I'm not sure they can easily overcome.

[factotum]

Ignoring that, even, the Empire still wins because they'd eventually develop new and better weapons to deploy, where the Covenant have pretty much been using the same stuff for centuries.


Actually, I'm pretty sure the idea is that the galaxy the Empire is in has been technologically stagnant for the best part of 25,000 years--they've achieved the absolute peak they can within their universe and can't advance any further. This is why they get trounced by the Yuuzhan Vong when they turn up, because the Vong are using technology the Empire have never developed and don't know how to deal with.

However, I think the Covenant gets owned hard in this scenario--the Empire gets a massive tactical advantage from their much faster hyperdrive even without any other factors in play.

[Athaniar]

I don't know what that is

The Yuuzhan Vong (http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Yuuzhan Vong)

Can't judge what would happen since I've only read one whole book (Vector Prime) so far, but in short, they're an extragalactic species of evil warrior aliens using only organic technology and immune to the Force. It is said that Palpatine created the Empire in order to organize the galaxy against them.

[Mando Knight]

Actually, I'm pretty sure the idea is that the galaxy the Empire is in has been technologically stagnant for the best part of 25,000 years--they've achieved the absolute peak they can within their universe and can't advance any further. This is why they get trounced by the Yuuzhan Vong when they turn up, because the Vong are using technology the Empire have never developed and don't know how to deal with.

Not really... according to official material, stable Class 1 hyperdrives were state-of-the-art around the Naboo Invasion and Clone Wars... and starfighter-mounted hyperdrives were rare, much less Class 1. By the Galactic Civil War, the Incom/Subpro T-65 X-Wing had an internally mounted Class 1 hyperdrive as part of the standard system... not to mention the Millennium Falcon's Class .5 hyperdrive, which was the fastest in the galaxy at that time, though extremely unstable.

Weapons have also developed significantly in the 20-year span between the end of the Clone Wars and the Battle of Yavin... Imperial AT-AT (http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/All_Terrain_Armored_Transport)s improved significantly thanks to the efforts of a certain Maximilian Veers (http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Maximilian_Veers), turning them from an experimental, blocky war machine in the Clone Wars to the nigh-invulnerable armored behemoths that laid waste to Echo Base.

On the starship side, Clone Wars era vessels are far outpaced by GCW war machines, with the TIE Interceptor outpacing almost every Clone Wars fighter for a fraction of the cost; the late Imperator-class, barely fresh off the docks when the Clone Wars ended, becomes the infamous, innumerable Imperial-class, itself dwarfed by the nearly 20 km long Executor and the 17 km long Eclipse; and the TIE Defender and Imperial Missile Boat become the TIE Broken (http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/GameBreaker) and King Hell God Emperor Starfighter of Death. The New Republic built Star Defenders, which themselves outpaced the Executor class in terms of ship-on-ship combat; redesigned and improved the A-Wing, B-Wing, and X-Wing, already the deadliest starfighters in the galaxy (barring the limited-production TIE Defenders and Imperial Missile Boats); and developed more reliable Class .5 hyperdrive modifications. In the second Galactic Civil War, the Mandalorians, lead by Boba Fett, created a starfighter of nearly unrivaled quality and durability thanks to the newly discovered vein of the bes'kar ore, one of the few substances capable of stopping lightsabers, and nearly indestructible (Vader's right glove was said to be plated with the stuff).

Jump forward another 100 years, and the Pellaeon-class (http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Pellaeon-class_Star_Destroyer) Star Destroyers are in production, shorter but far more powerful than the Imperial-class Star Destroyers that preceded them.

[An Enemy Spy]

The Covenant would likely try to incorporate the other Star Wars races. I bet they would love to fight the Empire.

[Mando Knight]

The Covenant would likely try to incorporate the other Star Wars races. I bet they would love to fight the Empire.

Though probably not alongside a dogmatic, technologically-backwards theocracy like the Covenant. Remember also that the Rebel Alliance, the leading group of dissidents within the Empire, has a large number of the one species the Covenant has been shown in their official material to despise beyond all reason.

The Covenant also isn't shown to be all that clever: Cortana was able to reapply Covenant tech in ways that their owners couldn't understand... evidently, the Covenant has little in the way of engineering and scientific communities, or else they don't have such communities in close communication with their military.

[Da'Shain]

On the issue of ground combat:

Aren't Covenant plasma weapons not so great against armor? They do great against shields and alright against flesh, but it seems to me that stormtrooper armor might actually be effective for a few shots against plasma weapons, as opposed to against their own blasters which pierce right through.

Not sure how blasters would do against Covenant shielding, though. Pistol-size weaponry seems useless against pretty much any Star Wars shielding, but rifles (or the smaller, SMG-looking E-11s) do much better, at least in the EU. Plus, we don't know what the relative strengths of Star Wars personal shields vs. Covenant personal shields are.

[Fan]

Well, I've seen a Small privately owned personal shield take a direct hit from a lightsaber wielded by Luke Skywalker before shorting out in the Jedi search trilogy. I've also seen it take a few blaster shots in a few other books, so I'm sure they could stand up to the super heated gases of the covenant weapons... Hell a magnet could disable a covenant cruiser if it was large enough as they use ultra special awesome magnets of their own to guide the gas so if you had robotic ram ships (a tactic used often by forces opposing the new republic... ) outfitted with a form of magnet that would draw the shots to it. They could technicly have it ram a captial ship with more than a few plasma torpedos of the covenants to aid in the impact.

And Star wars capital ship shields manny more magnitudes more powerful than the Covenats. Whi8le the covenats are wiped out by a explosion equivalent to a nuke the star wars ships take MANY hits equivalent to the largest payload bombs ever made in ship to ship combat.

No contest SW is unbeatable by everything but WH40K, and a select few.
Halo doesn't even come close in tech level.

[Mando Knight]

Pistol-size weaponry seems useless against pretty much any Star Wars shielding, but rifles (or the smaller, SMG-looking E-11s) do much better, at least in the EU. Plus, we don't know what the relative strengths of Star Wars personal shields vs. Covenant personal shields are.

There aren't many personal shields around by the GCW period, due to the bulk needed to fully protect against the blaster pistols. It'd be like wearing full-plate while fighting a US Marine: You're slowed down a lot and your improved armor isn't likely to provide sufficiently more protection against his rifle than his vest is. Han's DL-44 blaster pistol is capable of vaporizing chunks of concrete. A smuggler was able to afford a sidearm that releases as much energy per shot as a modern heavy caliber rifle. And there are larger weapons available to the Empire, like the E-Web blaster.

[Dervag]

Not really... according to official material, stable Class 1 hyperdrives were state-of-the-art around the Naboo Invasion and Clone Wars... and starfighter-mounted hyperdrives were rare, much less Class 1. By the Galactic Civil War, the Incom/Subpro T-65 X-Wing had an internally mounted Class 1 hyperdrive as part of the standard system... not to mention the Millennium Falcon's Class .5 hyperdrive, which was the fastest in the galaxy at that time, though extremely unstable.On the other hand, most of the improvments you describe to technology are to specific applications. Except for hyperdrive technology, most of them were weapons technology. Since the Star Wars galaxy had enjoyed many centuries of relative peace before the Clone Wars began, it's quite possible that their weapons technology stagnated at a level below what the available science allowed.

That doesn't mean that Star Wars is making new fundamental scientific discoveries. On the other hand, if they aren't, it's basically because they've discovered all of science, which makes them about as badass as it is theoretically possible to be, once they figure out how to turn their science into engineering.


A smuggler was able to afford a sidearm that releases as much energy per shot as a modern heavy caliber rifle. And there are larger weapons available to the Empire, like the E-Web blaster.Minor point:

Given his career choice, Han Solo is most likely to wind up in high intensity, short range combat against a single opponent or a small number of opponents. He needs to be able to get a one-shot kill against professional bounty hunters. Ideally, even against the ones who are not idiots and are wearing full body armor (to mix settings), the ones who are in fact assassin droids, and so on.

Given that, it seems likely that Han would invest in the hand blaster equivalent of a .44 Magnum or .50 Desert Eagle. It may not fire fast, and it may not be able to fire many shots before needing to be reloaded (recharged?). But if you hit something with it, it should stay dead.

Heavier infantry weapons would exist, naturally- the blaster equivalent of the .50 caliber machine gun, which appears to be the heavy tripod-mounted E-Web blaster. But even by the standards of military-grade small arms in the Star Wars setting, Han Solo would carry a weapon whose power per shot is not to be despised.

[Oslecamo]

A smuggler was able to afford a sidearm that releases as much energy per shot as a modern heavy caliber rifle. And there are larger weapons available to the Empire, like the E-Web blaster.

Said smuggler also managed to afford the fastest ship in the galaxy, so I guess he's one of a kind, with direct contacts with the technology development industry, able to get his hand on the best techs available that not even the imperium has fielded yet.

Thus one shouldn't be suprised if his blaster was actually a prototype that not even imperial elite troops could ever hope to get their hands on.

[kpenguin]

According to Wookiepedia, Han's blaster is a DL-44 heavy blaster pistol (http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/DL-44_heavy_blaster_pistol) and costs 750 credits. For comparison, the standard blaster rifle used by stormtroopers, the E-11 (http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/E-11_blaster_rifle), costs 1000 credits.

[Oslecamo]

According to Wookiepedia, Han's blaster is a DL-44 heavy blaster pistol (http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/DL-44_heavy_blaster_pistol) and costs 750 credits. For comparison, the standard blaster rifle used by stormtroopers, the E-11 (http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/E-11_blaster_rifle), costs 1000 credits.

Han Solo and Mara Jade were among the many smugglers and bounty hunters who wielded modified DL-44 blasters.

I rest my case.

[Mando Knight]

Said smuggler also managed to afford the fastest ship in the galaxy, so I guess he's one of a kind, with direct contacts with the technology development industry, able to get his hand on the best techs available that not even the imperium has fielded yet.

He won the Falcon in a game of chance, like many of its previous owners. He was also on the run from Jabba the Hutt for being behind on his deliveries. He's not rich, and didn't have much contact with tech development. The weapon was personally modified.

[Oslecamo]

He won the Falcon in a game of chance, like many of its previous owners. He was also on the run from Jabba the Hutt for being behind on his deliveries. He's not rich, and didn't have much contact with tech development. The weapon was personally modified.

Well then the imperium's logistic department should have some heads chopped since a bunch of nonrich game addicts have acess to better technology than the emperium's finest.

[UltraDude]

Well then the imperium's logistic department should have some heads chopped since a bunch of nonrich game addicts have acess to better technology than the emperium's finest.

My bet is that the original owner was super rich, and was probably incredibly intoxicated when he decided to bet his incredibly advanced prototype... freighter. Then someone less rich got it, and it eventually found its way down to someone so nonrich that he had to fix the thing with the intergalactic equivalent of duct tape. Or maybe he really did use duct tape.

[Oslecamo]

My bet is that the original owner was super rich, and was probably incredibly intoxicated when he decided to bet his incredibly advanced prototype... freighter. Then someone less rich got it, and it eventually found its way down to someone so nonrich that he had to fix the thing with the intergalactic equivalent of duct tape. Or maybe he really did use duct tape.

Well, that would be actually a reasonable explanation to why there aren't any other millenium falcons around.

Palpatine: Good morning, my minion. As combined, I'm here to see the progress in the new space superiority fighter/transport you've been developing for several years now.
Evil scientist: Actually, your highness, I kind of got completely drunk in a card game last night, so I kinda beted the prototype, but luck wasn't with me, so well, it's not in my hands anymore...
Palpatine: You've had billions of credits for your research, and not only you haven't built anything, you still dare to come up with such lies?
Evil scientist: It's no lie, your highness, I swe AACCKKKK(force choke)

[Talkkno]

Well then the imperium's logistic department should have some heads chopped since a bunch of nonrich game addicts have acess to better technology than the emperium's finest.

Keep in mind that they .5 hyperdrive is really unstable, given the amount of times it breaks down and needs to be fixed.

[Oslecamo]

Keep in mind that they .5 hyperdrive is really unstable, given the amount of times it breaks down and needs to be fixed.

Yet it can be fixed with spit and duct tape by some poor smuggler who didn't even help building the ship. It if it looks unstable, it's probably because of the really bad maintenance it receives.

[Mando Knight]

The history of the Millennium Falcon (http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Millennium_Falcon), condensed into Wiki form, and most of the pre-Solo information culled from the book titled after the ship.

And the outlaw (http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Klaus_Vandangante) responsible for the hyperdrive of the fastest ship in the galaxy. He developed a "hyperspace streamlining" process that he used to allow the Falcon to move at speeds through hyperspace that would tear non-modified ships to shreds.

[Dervag]

He won the Falcon in a game of chance, like many of its previous owners. He was also on the run from Jabba the Hutt for being behind on his deliveries. He's not rich, and didn't have much contact with tech development. The weapon was personally modified.On the other hand, I kind of doubt that personal modifications to a hand weapon made by a random guy could greatly improve its firepower. "Personally modified" might mean adding a sight. Or customizing the pistol grip so that it fits the hand of Han Solo, specifically, rather than being a generic design that would work just as well for scaly three-fingered aliens as for humans (not very, that is).

I doubt it means taking a standard target-shooting pistol and converting it into something that blasts holes in walls like a bazooka.
_______

As for the Falcon, I suspect Oslecamo is right. The idea that the Falcon is a "prototype" which uses technology not available to the richest powers in the galaxy defies all engineering logic, given that it can be kept running out of the budget of a man like Han Solo.

It seems more likely that the genius who designed it was a genius because of his ability to use off the shelf parts to do something that would normally be impossible without custom-fabricated equipment from the galaxy's most prestigious manufacturers.

[Mando Knight]

It seems more likely that the genius who designed it was a genius because of his ability to use off the shelf parts to do something that would normally be impossible without custom-fabricated equipment from the galaxy's most prestigious manufacturers.

Exactly. (http://www.starwars.com/databank/character/doc/index.html) And the problem with his design going mainstream was that he was wrongly blacklisted by the management of his first engineering job.

[Renegade Paladin]

Are we assuming that the rebellion is taking place?
Because if so, the Empire would loose flat out.
Where do you get this idea? The Rebellion was constantly on the run; they were hardly a huge drain on Imperial mainline forces.

[JerryMcJerrison]

Aren't Covenant plasma weapons not so great against armor? They do great against shields and alright against flesh, but it seems to me that stormtrooper armor might actually be effective for a few shots against plasma weapons, as opposed to against their own blasters which pierce right through.

Moot point, since they've already been slaughtered, but I think the bullet/plasma differences were mostly for game balance and whatnot. When the SPARTANs first got their armor, which had been specifically modified to dissipate plasma as best as they could get it to, a single shot burned a hole in one guys side, and most certainly would have sent him into shock if not for his superhuman resilience. I'd say what they lack in penetrating power they more than make up for in extreme pain. I don't remember if this still happens in the newer games, but it used to be one of the larger advantages of plasma weapons was that the made your target flinch with each hit, even while you were in the tank.

Also, the thought occurs to me that the point of the Empire having superior or at least equal tech on many fronts might just send the Covenant into a self-destructing spiral of doom once they realize the Forerunners weren't responsible for it.

[Texas_Ben]

I don't remember if this still happens in the newer games, but it used to be one of the larger advantages of plasma weapons was that the made your target flinch with each hit, even while you were in the tank.

They took the plasma freeze out for Halo 2 and 3.

And as far as what happens in the books in concerned, the games are a higher level of canon than the books, as for star wars the movies are a higher canon than EU. I don't want to get into a fight into what is and is not canon, I just thought I'd point it out. I offer no opinion one way or the other, just bringing it to attention.

[An Enemy Spy]

I'd say that as long as the books don't interfere with the games/movies, then they are the same level of canon. You'll notice that the games, especially the third one, reference the books now and then.

[kpenguin]

Also, the parts of the game that only make sense because of game mechanics (weapons not doing ANY collataral damage, for instance) should be considered canon, obviously.

[Sholos]

Also, the parts of the game that only make sense because of game mechanics (weapons not doing ANY collataral damage, for instance) should be considered canon, obviously.

I believe you mean should not be considered canon. On that note, Master Chief cannot flip a tank. He works hard to flip a jeep. I think that the book actually trumps the games in most areas that they collide, since most of those areas (if not all of them) are simply game mechanics. Obviously the sections of the book that deal with John's actions beat the game for canon-status, if for no other reason than that there isn't really a "canon" way to beat each level.

[kpenguin]

I was being sarcastic.