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Rogue 7
2009-01-20, 01:16 AM
So, I'm going to be involved with a Dark Sun campaign this semester (tenative idea is a ninja-assassin-rogue type), and I know nothing about the setting. Hence: Enlighten me!

RTGoodman
2009-01-20, 01:18 AM
Athas.org (http://www.athas.org). That's the official website for (3.x) Dark Sun. Read and be enlightened.

Also, for more basic/general info, check out Wikipedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dark_Sun)/Google (http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q=Dark+Sun)/whatever.

newbDM
2009-01-20, 02:57 AM
Dragon Magazine #319 had a pretty nice (although miniature) updates to the rules, and is arranged to be a miniature "Rulebook" for the setting. I believe a corresponding Dungeon Magazine issue serves as a DM's guide.

lisiecki
2009-01-20, 02:58 AM
So, I'm going to be involved with a Dark Sun campaign this semester (tenative idea is a ninja-assassin-rogue type), and I know nothing about the setting. Hence: Enlighten me!

Wearing black pajamas on Athas strikes me as a poor idea

Tsotha-lanti
2009-01-20, 07:07 AM
Athas.org is a far superior to the Dragon magazine as a resource for Athas. Unfortunately, last time I downloaded their books, they had nearly no fluff - presumably because that stuff is still under copyright now owned by WotC. So you're a bit screwed there.

Which means it's probably a good idea to give a run-down of the setting:

Athas, the world of the Dark Sun, is a dying world of barren deserts. The long-dominant humans live in great city states ruled by the Sorcerer-Kings and -Queens, (mostly) evil psion-wizards on the path to becoming dragons (which is a whole different sort of beast in Athas). Great merchant and noble houses control the water, and thus the farming and all trade and life, but must bow to the power of the Sorcerer-Kings.

Elves live nomadic in the wastes, towering and spindly dune-runners with a well-deserved reputation for treachery and thieving.

Dwarves, hairless and stubborn, live in their small villages or among humans.

Halflings, once the flesh-bending psionic masters of the world - when the sun was still Blue and Green - are now cannibal (in the sense that they'll eat intelligent humanoids) savages living in the few jungles of the world, or in the wastelands.

The thri-kreen are insectile hunters of the wastelands, with their own alien conceptions of pack and honor, living for the hunt.

Muls, half-dwarf and half-man, are tall, powerful, hairless bundles of muscle and sinew, popular as slaves and gladiators.

Most familiar fantasy races - orcs, etc. - were long since wiped out in a genocidal war that aimed to kill all non-humans (well, the real aim was to wipe out humans at the end, too, and leave the world for the halflings, but that didn't go over well with the human Champions of Rajaat).

Pretty much everyone has some latent psionic ability (and, in the AD&D edition, I think every single PC was a wild talent), and everyone is significantly more powerful than in the average world, because of the harshness of the conditions (not reflected in the 3.5 versions; then again, the AD&D version said that you'd have to convert abilities down if you moved the characters out of Athas).

Divine magic comes from the Elemental Planes - some of the few planes with any connection to Athas. It is channeled by druids and clerics who worship the land itself, or the sun or the wind or the silt; and by templars, who gain their magic from the Sorcerer-Kings, who have made themselves conduit for elemental power.

Arcane magic uses the energy of life - originally derived from the sun, but drawn by mortal spellcasters from plants around them (or living animals - including humanoids - by the vilest defilers). Preservers are wizards who draw carefully, so as to not kill the precious few plants around; defilers have no such regard, and recklessly reduce all living plants around to ash in order to wield greater power. In ages past, great magics were worked that drew energy directly from the sun, weakening it and turning it first from blue to green, then green to yellow, then yellow to dark, dark red - the Dark Sun. (The climate is less a function of the sun's own heat and more of the lack of water in the atmosphere - I forget how the heck that happened, though.)

Oh, and almost every freaking way to die is likely to leave behind an undead creature. Well, I exaggerate a bit, but seriously, there's tons of them, and strikingly different types for different circumstances of death.


Wearing black pajamas on Athas strikes me as a poor idea

The color is kind of irrelevant. Black clothes don't really get that hot, since the color doesn't matter that much for non-visible spectrums of light (i.e. infrared), which may be a lot more significant for how hot you are. The weave of the garment and how they're layered or arranged is more significant.

The Straight Dope on this. (http://www.straightdope.com/columns/read/1886/does-black-clothing-keep-you-cooler)

Black clothes are not uncommon in hot desert regions.


Edit: Oh, and ninjas would actually fit into the setting quite well. They'd just be called bards, and would have abandoned even the pretense of being entertainers... Athasian bards are assassins and poisoners first.

Other differences... no paladins (on account of no gods; forgot that above; they haven't been worshipped for millenia or more, and may never have existed), gladiators are an essential base class... weapons are almost exclusively wood or bone or rock or obsidian, because iron is extremely rare and valuable...

Evilfeeds
2009-01-20, 07:35 AM
This may be of some interest:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dark_Sun:_Shattered_Lands
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dark_Sun:_Wake_of_the_Ravager

If you are able to purchase/borrow/steal a copy of either of them, and dont mind the horribly outdatedness of it all, it might be an easy way to jump in. I enjoyed them back in the day, although I pretty much played anything that had D&D stamped on it.

hamlet
2009-01-20, 08:45 AM
The only advice I offer in terms of Dark Sun is to ignore 3.x and play it using AD&D 2e rules. Trust me, it just works better.

That said, to add to what was said above, the world of Athas is harsh and unforgiving. Antiquated notions such as "heroes" and "good guys" will accomplish only getting you killed in this world where securing your next sip of water is far more important than confronting the evil (and do not mistake, the powers that be are wholly evil and wholly in control and wholly beyond your power) that rules this world.

The Dragon Kings (i.e., the rulers of the various city states) are as close to gods as you can get in this world short of Rajaat himself, and if you are smart and ignore utterly the revised setting material you won't ever even hear of Rajaat anyway. They rule with iron fists, smashing dissent into the dust. The arcane magic of the lesser beings of the world sucks life energy from the planet around them, killing plants and the soil itself. The magic of the Sorcerer Kings slays living beings just as handily.

Metal is extremely rare and extremely valuable. Finding a cache of usable steal of pig iron is worth more than all the cermic coins an average person is like to see in his entire lifetime. People will kill to obtain even a basic steal dagger.

lisiecki
2009-01-20, 08:53 AM
[QUOTE=Tsotha-lanti;5672484The color is kind of irrelevant. Black clothes don't really get that hot, since the color doesn't matter that much for non-visible spectrums of light (i.e. infrared), which may be a lot more significant for how hot you are. The weave of the garment and how they're layered or arranged is more significant.[/QUOTE]

?

Ok...
There still tacky either way

Tsotha-lanti
2009-01-20, 09:34 AM
The only advice I offer in terms of Dark Sun is to ignore 3.x and play it using AD&D 2e rules. Trust me, it just works better.

I think Satyr has often mentioned using Unisystem (All Flesh Must Be Eaten / Witchcraft) for Dark Sun, which I can imagine works way better than any D&D edition.

That said, 3.5 works fine when you just ignore WBL and magic items and keep everyone using regular bone/obsidian weapons. (Wizards will have severely limited spellbooks, too.) Combat is just as lethal as it should be, pretty much, especially against monsters.

hamlet
2009-01-20, 09:37 AM
I think Satyr has often mentioned using Unisystem (All Flesh Must Be Eaten / Witchcraft) for Dark Sun, which I can imagine works way better than any D&D edition.

That said, 3.5 works fine when you just ignore WBL and magic items and keep everyone using regular bone/obsidian weapons. (Wizards will have severely limited spellbooks, too.) Combat is just as lethal as it should be, pretty much, especially against monsters.

While I'll grant that Unisystem might work, I won't agree that it'll work better than any D&D edition, but that's a very subjective thing anyway.

My point, though, was that 3.x is unsuitable unless you apply huge and widesweeping changes that will make many 3.x players cranky. I've tried it.

Satyr
2009-01-20, 11:15 AM
While I'll grant that Unisystem might work, I won't agree that it'll work better than any D&D edition, but that's a very subjective thing anyway.

Unsurprisingly, I am almost completely convinced that the Unisystem is a great imporvement over both D&D 3.5 and the original rules. If you want, I can send you the stuff I wrote about it and you can see for yourself.
It's probably easier than adjusting the 3rd edition rules to the setting.

hamlet
2009-01-20, 11:29 AM
Unsurprisingly, I am almost completely convinced that the Unisystem is a great imporvement over both D&D 3.5 and the original rules. If you want, I can send you the stuff I wrote about it and you can see for yourself.
It's probably easier than adjusting the 3rd edition rules to the setting.

I've seen Unisystem and don't particularly care for it. Just not my thing.

But then again, I've always been a sucker for the original Dark Sun boxed set as is and wouldn't be making much in the way of modifications to it.

If I had to pick another system to use with Dark Sun, it'd probably be Alternity, but that would involve LOTS of tweaking.

Tsotha-lanti
2009-01-20, 01:17 PM
It's probably easier than adjusting the 3rd edition rules to the setting.

I really don't think it's necessary to adjust the rules much at all. I use Athas.org material and Sandstorm, and that's it.

You increase the lethality to just about the right levels by removing magic items, most armor, and wealth in general. This is the setting where you had to create 3 characters to get started, in AD&D, after all. Because they were going to be dropping like flies.

Unisystem is still better, though.