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pyrefiend
2006-10-07, 05:14 PM
In my campaign, the four classical elements are vitally important to a certain base class I am working on. That's why it is very important that I lock down a certain damage type to use for each element. The normal types won't work- fire does fire damage, certainly, but what about air and earth? I thought about it, and it seems to me that some elements use a more basic type of damage, such as bludgeoning for earth, where other elements, like fire, demand a special type. I don’t like this idea; it has too many quirks. So I looked up the elemental savant in hope of a better damage system. Their ideas don’t make any sense at all.
Fire Element=Fire damage. That's obvious.
Water Element=Cold damage. I can handle that, but does all water have to be freezing cold? :P
Air Element=Lightning damage. That doesn't make any sense. Lightning comes from the air, so what? Does that just automatically make it air?
Earth Element=Acid damage. This is a monstosity. What does acid have to do with earth? It's just completely random. None of this was very helpful.

So I ended up with energy damage types and physical damage types for my four elements. I decided that since I didn't want to mix between the two, and neither type would apply to all the elements, I would give one of each to every element. This is what I came up with:

Fire Element=Fire+Piercing
Earth Element=Force+Bludgeoning
Water Element=Cold+Slashing
Air Element=Sonic+Shreading*

*Shredding is a new physical damage type I invented to accommodate for my four elements. I don't know of any weapon that would deal shredding damage but it was necessary in order to give each element a physical damage type.

Does anyone have any suggestions on how I could streamline this?

Fax Celestis
2006-10-07, 05:28 PM
You've got that a bit wrong.

Fire = Fire Damage
Water = Drowning Damage
Cold (an aspect of water) = Cold Damage
Air = Sonic Damage
Electricity = Electrical Damage
Earth = Bludgeoning Damage
Acid (an aspect of earth) = Acid Damage

pyrefiend
2006-10-07, 05:41 PM
1. I know you can drown in water, but the damage I'm talking about is that from a focused beam of pure element.
2. Where is it stated that sonic is the appropriate damage type for air? I don't doubt it is, but I can't figure out how I overlooked that.
3. How is acid an aspect of the earth? I know that somehow everything comes from the earth, but on a primal level I don't see the connection.

SilveryCord
2006-10-07, 05:47 PM
Then you've got a 5+ elemental system. (4 elements doesn't work very well anyway, and I absolutely LOATH the idea of air/water/fire/earth for some reason, but anyway).

If we're using the Greek Axes (and I believe that's where this four element nonsense stemed from), Dry-Wet Hot-Cold, (Earth is Dry-Cold, Fire is Dry-Hot, Water is Wet-Cold, Air is Wet-Hot), then you've got options for gradiations.

Think of Dry-Wet as the X axis (Dry is negative, Wet is positive), and Hot-Cold as the Y axis (Hot is positive, Cold is negative).
Earth would be (-1,-1), for example.
Cold damage could be considered (0, -1)
Acid could be either purely dry (-1, 0), or whatever interpretation you've got.
There, you have an entire elemental system. If you want to go crazy, use .5s to describe really, really specific things.
(And 0,0 is Quintessence, remember that.)

OR you can use the Chinese Elements (which you don't seem keen on doing).
Fire = Fire
Earth = Bludgeoning, Acid
Wood = Anything to do with animals. (IE basically most druid spells) Or just shove miscellaneous crap in here.
Steel = Electricity, Sonic.
Water = Drowning, cold, etc.

Lykan
2006-10-08, 12:18 AM
Air Element=Sonic+Shreading*

*Shredding is a new physical damage type I invented to accommodate for my four elements. I don't know of any weapon that would deal shredding damage but it was necessary in order to give each element a physical damage type.


Giant scissors?

Latronis
2006-10-08, 01:38 AM
I don't think tieing a specific element to a specific damage can really work unless you go make new damage types.

Depending on how you view how each element can damage someone the damage type can change.

Air could potentially deal piercing, slashing, bludgeoning heat or cold damage. (I don't agree with air ever doing sonic or eletrical damage) for example

bosssmiley
2006-10-08, 04:48 AM
Elemental correspondances already work if you add a little pseudo-science*.

Plane of Fire = fire damage
Plane of Water = cold damage (do you know how good a coolant water is?)
Plane of Air = electrical and sonic damage (thunder and lightning, obv.)
Plane of Earth = acid damage (elemental earth arguably includes inorganic acids, alkalis and salts)

Wood element? That read like a bad joke in MotP and hasn't improved with age. Plus it gives the players carte blanc for really bad "Beavis & Butthead" gags. ::)

I'd save the weird combos of two or three types of damage for the para- and quasi-elemental planes (if you use them). Anyone up for visiting the lung-exploding goodness of the Quasi-plane of Vacuum? ;)

* No catgirls were harmed in the making of this post.

Yuki Akuma
2006-10-08, 12:35 PM
Wood element? That read like a bad joke in MotP and hasn't improved with age. Plus it gives the players carte blanc for really bad "Beavis & Butthead" gags. ::)

Just because classical European elements never included wood doesn't mean classical Asian elements never did.

They also had metal, which makes far more sense that "earth"...

Fizban
2006-10-08, 12:51 PM
I once spent about 5 seconds trying to do this, and then decided it would never work out pretty. That said, I would suggest doing away with the standard types of energy damage, and just have the main 4 earth fire water wind. Change all resistances and immunities to an appropriate element (the subtype of dragons could help for them) and keep force damage as the "hit everything but not very hard" element. If they whole world centers around those elements then it makes more sense to base everything off of them rather than try to adapt the oddness of Dnd energy/elements to them.

I_Got_This_Name
2006-10-08, 01:48 PM
Just because classical European elements never included wood doesn't mean classical Asian elements never did.

They also had metal, which makes far more sense that "earth"...

Earth's one of the Chinese five; the Chinese five don't have air, but they have all three others that Europe has.

Now, how to match up damage types:
Fire: Fire damage

Water: I'd actually see a good arguement for putting Acid here, actually. If I remember my chemistry right, acids are usually water solutions. Water and Cold have also been long-associated, too.

Earth: I'd go with all three types of physical damage, or with untyped damage, here. To make up for it, I'd make Earth attacks less magical, and so ignore spell resistance, but be subject to DR (and gain the ability to overcome various DRs as you level; I'd start them off overcoming /magic).

Air: This is a hard one. We've only used two energy types here, so we have cold, electricity, and sonic, and I can see a good case for all three (Freezing winds, lightning, and thunder). We can also use physical wind damage (bludgeoning or slashing).

If you try to match up elements and damage types one-to-one, it gets ugly. This is because they are different things (elements are from classical philosophy/alchemy; damage types are the ways we can get hurt), and there aren't even the same number (Even if we go with the 5 asian elements, I still wouldn't be able to match them).

I wouldn't replace the damage types with the elements, though; the energy types are an explanation of how the damage is done; the elements are primal powers.

pyrefiend
2006-10-08, 04:21 PM
I'm thinking of getting rid of water and replacing it with ice entirely. That way slashing makes sense, and cold too. And I like the idea of stone overcoming SR but being subject to DR. I still want to make the element earth coupled with force when used magicly.

Rama_Lei
2006-10-08, 04:47 PM
Well, I'd consider Water as bludgeoning potential, Earth as any of them, Wind as Slashing, and at high eonigh sppeds, bludgeoning, and fFire, welll fire.

I_Got_This_Name
2006-10-08, 05:22 PM
Force is a better energy type than the others, since nothing (except Force Dragons) has Force Resistance, and because it hits Incorporeal and Ethereal things just fine. I'd probably have Force deal a bit less damage, to make up for this.

If I had to pick elemental associations for it, I'd pick Earth, and, actually, Air too (it has properties of both).

Possibly have some things that result from the combinations of elements, even opposites. Earth and Air combine to give Force; Water and Air is cold, Fire and Air is Lightning.

Earth and Water might then have Acid; I don't know what to do for Earth and Fire, or for Fire and Water.

Golthur
2006-10-08, 05:30 PM
Just a random brainstorm sort of idea, so make of it what you will...

Perhaps some of the oddball types could be viewed as a combination of two elements together, e.g.:

Water + Fire = Acid
Air + Fire = Lightning (I know this one's not "official")
Earth + Water = Ice/Cold

etc.

EDIT: Simul'ed by I_Got_This_Name. Curse you!!! ;)

Earth+Air=Force is good, though. I like it, especially in the sense of Earth="make solid". So, solid Air = force, solid Water = ice.

pyrefiend
2006-10-08, 05:56 PM
...I think the moral of the story is that elemental damage has to be taken case-by-case, depending on the situation. There are to many different types of damage "air" can deal. But my real question is this: I am working on a class called the primal mage, which has one main ray of primal element it uses all the time. This is an elemental class, Im going to have the elements be fire, air, ice, and stone/metal. So for the main ray attack they will always use, what kind of damage should be applied? Can I use the normal damage types, or do I have to scrap them for all new types? Keep in mind I am still keeping the sorcerers and wizards.

Latronis
2006-10-09, 12:14 AM
Well you could give the ray an unnamed or new damage type, perhaps with better or worse effects againest certain elemental subtypes to retain the specific element flavour and take the rest of the damages on a case by case basis.

Larrin
2006-10-09, 12:42 PM
i vote:

fire=fire
water=cold, but also spells like drown...
air=sonic and lighting
earth= force, acid.

water gets cold, not because cold defines water, but that water is a great medium to transmit the cold, an ice shard will always be more effective at delivering cold then cold winds, or cold rocks (even though they could be used)

air NEEDS to have sonic, sonic is air damaging you! but air friction is how lightning is made, so its a good way to spit out electricity (as opposesed to..banging rocks together?)

Force is like earth without the matter, and therefore really is the 'energy' of earth, IMHO. Acid as energy is non-sensicle scientifically, but its the elements of earth in the acid solution that do the 'burning' so its more earth then anything else.

you can of course go with the
fire/air=lightning water, water/earth=acid..etc but you quickly realize that this demands about four new energy type (fire/earth, water/air + 2 more) , not to mention the four three-fold combinations and all four at once....yeah, Keep It Simple, Son. four elements is about as much as you need, don't worry about keeping them too balanced....people will always choose fire even if air has 3 energy types....

Latronis
2006-10-09, 03:45 PM
Sonic is sound damaging you not the air and as for lightning well without the earth there wouldn't be any its just as important as whats above it.

For the rays if you wanted a specific damage for each just think about what all the element specific spells do damage wise, or what they could do.

Earth could well be bludgeoning damage. Its very physical. While it could therorectically be used to deal slashing or piercing most people think off a chunk of earth hitting you a think :P

Fire is easy enough.

Water can transmit heat or cold equally well, since fire is gone best not to give heat damage so cold fits well enough, also fits opposing elements theme.

That leaves Air, the most controversial. Force damage i think would be most suitable. Earth and air are classically opposites The very physical earth could be opposed by the rather magical force. Its also less... solid then earth so a physical damage might not be as appropiate but it still damages by getting blasted basically.

pyrefiend
2006-10-09, 08:50 PM
I think that I will just give a new damage type to each ray, like prime fire, prime earth, etc. They would be subject to spell resistance, but not subject to energy resistance that corresponds to it, if any. For example a monster with fire resistance 10 takes full damage from a prime fire ray, because it is composed of a more pure, spiritual flame.

Larrin
2006-10-11, 11:28 AM
Sonic is sound damaging you not the air and as for lightning well without the earth there wouldn't be any its just as important as whats above it.



Sound IS air, waves in the air. without air, there is no sound. when sound hits you, its air hitting you. air moving. in waves.

and alot of lighting is from cloud to cloud, so no it doesn't need the earth. lighting is caused by a charge imbalcance between one cloud and another, or a cloud and the ground. The charge imbalance is cause by the air's movement effectively doing the same thing as someone shuffling their feet in slippers. My point was that if a mage is trying to generate enough charge to make a bolt of lighting, magicaly "shuffling" air would be the best way to do it, hence the "airness" of lightning.

pyrefiend
2006-10-11, 02:59 PM
Sound IS air, waves in the air. without air, there is no sound. when sound hits you, its air hitting you. air moving. in waves.

and alot of lighting is from cloud to cloud, so no it doesn't need the earth. lighting is caused by a charge imbalcance between one cloud and another, or a cloud and the ground. The charge imbalance is cause by the air's movement effectively doing the same thing as someone shuffling their feet in slippers. My point was that if a mage is trying to generate enough charge to make a bolt of lighting, magicaly "shuffling" air would be the best way to do it, hence the "airness" of lightning.

Wow, that's really good. I think I'm sold on
Air= Sonic+Lightning

On the topic of force, which seems to be a damage type used for the earth element, what is force? Is it just pure magic energy or what? By the way, I'm going to be posting the primordial mage class soon, which is what this element thread is all about.

Larrin
2006-10-11, 04:36 PM
i've always felt that IF force is considered part of the Earth school of things, then force is the essence of earth; Permance, hardness, solidity, strenght, without all those pesky dirt molecules getting in the way.

if its independent of Earth magic, force is just raw magic making no use of any element, but existing purely as itself and only using itself(magic) to get things done.

either concept works just as well.

Reiku
2006-10-11, 10:51 PM
Sound IS air, waves in the air. without air, there is no sound. when sound hits you, its air hitting you. air moving. in waves.

and alot of lighting is from cloud to cloud, so no it doesn't need the earth. lighting is caused by a charge imbalcance between one cloud and another, or a cloud and the ground. The charge imbalance is cause by the air's movement effectively doing the same thing as someone shuffling their feet in slippers. My point was that if a mage is trying to generate enough charge to make a bolt of lighting, magicaly "shuffling" air would be the best way to do it, hence the "airness" of lightning.

Actually, sound is waves of kineic energy ("force" energy, mayhaps?) traveling through a medium, it does't have to be air. Likewise, lightning isn't the only example of naturally occuring electricity--just one of the better known and more spectacular ones--it's also not really tied to air as an element.

That said, the problem with making the "four basic elements" philosophy work is that it doesn't work--the phillosophy was flawed and inaccurate to begin with, so it's hard to build a logical framework to fit such a premise.

I imagine this is a problem many D&D players have wrestled with over the years, and while I don't think there really is a perfect answer, I'll offer my conclusions on the matter:

1: There are actually six basic elements in D&D--Earth, Air, Fire, Water, Positive, and Negative.

2: Rather than go with the "atoms made up of little bits of the 4 elements" explanation, my explanation for how the campaign world is created from those elements is that it's something like a soup: You mix a little of that with a little of this, and the ingredients blend to form something new with the properties of each individual component.

Working from this, several of the more problematic energy types become easier to explain. In my campaigns, I generally rule that electricity is a fusion of fire and positive energy, when an explanation is needed. I treat it as a compound element with it's own properties. Rather than having lightning bolts do 1/2 fire and 1/2 positive energy damage, the two energies combine to create something new.

3: The core "elements" are not necesarily the physical or energy forms that we associate them with, but rather are idealized forces that manifest their properties in certain ways.

This helps explain how we can have an elemental plane where the ground is made of "solid fire" for example--it's the idealized force of fire manifested in a different form from the one common to the prime material.

4: Spells which call on an element may not be relying on the basic nature of the element to do damage, but rather on a certain aspect of that element.

So while sonic damage can be generated in and travel though water as easily (in fact, more easily in some situations) as it can through air, the "wind" aspect of air is commonly called upon to create moving waves of air pressure (sonic damage). It's not the only way you can damage somebody by controlling air, but it's the favoverd method amoung magicians. Perhaps it's easier or more efficient, or perhaps they just prefer it for purely subjective aesthetic reasons.

All in all, here's how I would set up damage types for an element-using mage:

Fire: Fire, that one's easy

Earth: "Petrification" damage. Think of it as Acid damage in reverse, solidifiying and fusing an object instead of dissolving it. As for it's effects on targeted creatures, imagine calcification or hardening of the tissues, eventually resulting in "petrification" in the geologic sense--ie: Like petrified wood.

To maintain game balance, you could rule that acid and "Petrification" damage are mechanically transparent. (ie: Acid resistance also works agains petrification damage) You could explain this by saying that both do essentially the same thing, just in opposite ways: Acid drains or stagnates the elemental energies in a target, and erodes the energy that holds it's physical form together (earth) causing it to dissolve, while Petrification drains the other elements and amplifies the earth energy, causing the target to freeze in place and become petrified.

In that sense, a master of earth energy could deal acid damage by draining the earth energy from their target, rather than adding more of the stuff. Likewise, perhaps the reason water energy deals cold damage is because it's canceling out some of the target's inheirant fire energy, rather than the water energy itself being "cold"?

So, we've got:

Fire: Fire damage
(blasts target with fire energy, causing heat damage)

Water: Cold dmage
(blasts the target with water energy, cooling it by cancelling out some of it's internal fire energy)

Air: Sonic damage
(blasts the target with waves of air energy)

and

Eath: Petrification damage
(blasts the target with earth energy, which stagnates the other elements and causes petrification)

How's that?

Latronis
2006-10-12, 10:38 AM
Sound IS air, waves in the air. without air, there is no sound. when sound hits you, its air hitting you. air moving. in waves.

Only when it's travelling through air. Not to mention air isn't even a very good conductor.

Besides that sonic hurts you because the sound waves are travelling through you, that's why its extra effective againest crystalline structures and creatures it doesn't hurt because you are getting pelted with waves of air, it hurts because its damaging you inside.




and alot of lighting is from cloud to cloud, so no it doesn't need the earth. lighting is caused by a charge imbalcance between one cloud and another, or a cloud and the ground. The charge imbalance is cause by the air's movement effectively doing the same thing as someone shuffling their feet in slippers. My point was that if a mage is trying to generate enough charge to make a bolt of lighting, magicaly "shuffling" air would be the best way to do it, hence the "airness" of lightning.

cloud to cloud = water -> water

cloud to earth = water -> earth

I can bang 2 rocks together to get a spark, we get electricity from flowing water. Sound and electricity exist independant of air. The only reason its so rife in fantasy is because thunder and lightning are the most impresive naturally occuring sources and that's up there. Sound and electricity dont even like going through air if they can help it.

Now correct this assumption if it's incorrect but the rays are concentrated elemental energy, rather then an aspect of the element itself? in effect the essence of each element? Even if you decided to tie sonic and lightning damage to the air element for other purposes, do you really want those two as defining damages, the very essence of the element of air?

That's the major problem i have with it, manipulating air for the purpose of thunder and lightning i can overlook, but defining the air element as thunder and lightning? that's just not air.

The 'petrify'\acid damage, i like now its been explained that way.

Fire should be heat damage, though i can understand if just fire damage is used. Fire burns because of heat, the essence of fire should be just a pure heat ray IMO. Add causes flammables to ignite too iff you like.

Water is a little tricky, cold works for me not so much because it's cold but because it saps heat. In that way it could be justified.

Air, the controversial element. I say that the closest existing damage type to how actual air could be used without the gases and whatnot for it is still force.

Larrin
2006-10-12, 12:06 PM
In the end, using hard scientific logic will not solve this, as only four elements really isn't hard scientific logic. in the end the question i think thats most important is "Do you want to rewrite the spell lists, or use what you've got" if you want to rewrite the spells so you have a fair amout that do "prime element" damage or even adding a fair share of "petrification" spells, then you have ultimate freedom with the types of damage you can assign, and you can go with your heart. If you want to take the spells as is, then you have to take the energy types we have "fire, cold, acid,ligthning, sonic and force" Am i missing any? then you assign them as you see fit. which is really pretty easy, fire and cold make the most sense for fire and water. Sonic is not fire, its not water, its not earth, and sonic spells use air as the medium (at least 90% of the time) so air is the best home for it. Lighting is sticky, its not airlike, its not earth like, its not watery, its like fire in some ways, but behaves VERY differently, and does things fire really can't. so we look for a place to stick it, just so its somewhere. Consider air, so far it only has sonic damage lets face it, sonic spells are fairly low in stock wizards only get 3 spells with the sonic descriptor (SRD; shout, shatter and wail of the banshee, splat books have added some but its still lagging) so air needs some damaging spells, and in the end the poetry works, and with magic thats all you really need sometimes. Thunder and lightning, it works. Use it.

acid is the biggest stinker of them all with good arguments for it being water (its a liquid) fire (it burns) and earth (its chemical(?)) the thing is, there are only 3 acid spells (again SRD) so it doesn't really matter where it goes, but fire and water have lots of great spells already, none of which really need acid added to the mix. By process of elimination, acid goes with earth, not because its wonderfully obvious or logical, but it works out. (although the idea that its sort of reverse petrifcation is kinda cool)

then theres force, does it need an element, no. it could just be raw magic, but if you WANT to give it an element, i've already given my reasons it should be Earth a post or two ago.

so if you're not worried about spell selection, either because you'll make your own or use energy substituion freely, then ANY suggestions made in this thread is really a good one, we've all are own reasons for our positions and they work magically.

if you want to use MAW (magic as written), then the "classic" break up of the energy types works as well as any other.

pyrefiend
2006-10-12, 05:19 PM
Lets try to look at this semi-logicly. We have fire sapping away cold energy, and overloading a creature with heat energy. And we have cold sapping away heat and adding cold energy. So we clearly have a pattern here between opposing forces.

Doesn't it only make sence then that whereas earth energy petrifies and stagnates a target, air enegy would do the opposite? Not acid damage, but... enervation damage? Maybe the air element is loosening the bonds between the elements instead of fusing them. This would probably take away the ability for a master of earth to deal acid damge by draining earth energy.

On the note of weather the normal energy should be kept, or replaced by element-exclusive types, I am going with both. The primordial mage will exclusively use these perfect elements, but wizards can still use blends of the elements. However, I will change some wizard spells and add others to make room for earth and air element type spells.

Larrin
2006-10-13, 02:36 PM
Doesn't it only make sence then that whereas earth energy petrifies and stagnates a target, air enegy would do the opposite? Not acid damage, but... enervation damage? Maybe the air element is loosening the bonds between the elements instead of fusing them. This would probobly take away the ability for a master of earth to deal acid damge by draining earth energy.



perhaps the word you're looking for is VAPORIZE, which literal means to turns things to vapor, ie a gas ie air. vaporization damage!

pyrefiend
2006-10-13, 02:56 PM
perhaps the word you're looking for is VAPORIZE, which literal means to turns things to vapor, ie a gas ie air. vaporization damage!

Hehe... yeah. Vaporization is right... So it looks like we have:


Fire: Drains cold energy and overloads with heat.
Water: Drains fire energy and overloads with cold.
Earth: Overloads with solid earth energy, tightening the body and harming it.
Air: Overoads the body with air energy, loosining the bonds in the body and vaporizing it.

I don't think I'll call them petrification and vaporization damage. I'd rather just have it all be Primal Element damage. I think I can change some petrification wizard spells by giving them the earth subtype.
Mwa Ha HA! The world will soon see the arrival of the primal mages: Pyrophile, Hydrophile, Lithophile and Atmophile!

Latronis
2006-10-13, 04:28 PM
I like the way it's turned out ^^

Tieing thunder and lightning to air for balance reasons is one thing, using that as the primal energy of the air element is a different matter.

It has a very rough scientific foundation i find pleasing and even manages to maintain the classical view of elements in opposition

I think we all deserve a round of cheers :P

Larrin
2006-10-13, 04:49 PM
yay me, yay you, yay him! ;D

Macrovore
2006-10-14, 12:52 PM
The way I was thinking of doing it, was that fire was the only element that did actual damage. Air could be used to create gusts of wind that threw objects, earth could be used to, well, move earth. Water could do a bunch of things, like fill someone's lungs with water, or blast someone with a jet of water.

pyrefiend
2006-10-14, 04:15 PM
The way I was thinking of doing it, was that fire was the only element that did actual damage. Air could be used to create gusts of wind that threw objects, earth could be used to, well, move earth. Water could do a bunch of things, like fill someone's lungs with water, or blast someone with a jet of water.

True, very true. In the generic sence you are completly right. All the wizard spells use this general method and I intend to keep it that way. However, I am making a new base class, one that deal's with an enemy's elemental composition on a primal level. So when I say: Primal air deals vaporizing damage, I dont mean that a normal gust of wind will leave the PCs in a smoking crator. I mean that a primal air mage, or atmophile, can do just that with a ray of prime air.

zeruslord
2006-10-14, 08:54 PM
I think you could fit acid into the middle of the air/earth duality as being on some sort of 3rd axis. Melting is quite definitely opposed to solidifying, but doesn't really fit into air in any way other than opposition to earth damage.

Reeksofdung
2006-10-14, 09:18 PM
I didn't see anyone else say it so...

Water kould deal different kinds of damage than kold. For instance, what happens when you sit in a tub of pure water for a while? Your kells swell with inflowing/diffusing water and you get all wrinkly. Speed up the prokess and you kould explode!

Now, what happens when the water has lots of solutes? Water diffuses out of your kells into the water. Speeding up the prokess, you would essentially dehydrate/desikkate.

In both kases, it would be death by osmosis (whikh sounds kind of kool to me...). :)

pyrefiend
2006-10-14, 09:45 PM
I didn't see anyone else say it so...

Water kould deal different kinds of damage than kold. For instance, what happens when you sit in a tub of pure water for a while? Your kells swell with inflowing/diffusing water and you get all wrinkly. Speed up the prokess and you kould explode!

Now, what happens when the water has lots of solutes? Water diffuses out of your kells into the water. Speeding up the prokess, you would essentially dehydrate/desikkate.

True, but remember we're only being quasi-scientific here. The elements dont deal with the cells of the body, they deal with it's elemental composition. Fire is essentialy erasing the water element, because it is opposing, thus enveloping it in fire. So, quasi-scientificly, it's only natural that the water element would extinguish the inner fire of the body, freezing it. I know it doesn't make much sence in a logical state of mind, but when you think about everything being composed of four elements it enlightens things a bit.