PDA

View Full Version : Ogre mages



Abbott
2009-01-20, 04:08 PM
Are they really CR 8 creatures? The one I tried didn't perform like it, and the stats seem to support that notion. My party isn't particularily cheesy and composed of 8-level characters.

thegurullamen
2009-01-20, 04:15 PM
Technically, yes. But it's a very crunchy eight. And this is leaving aside the planing and scheming element, which can bump the simple CR 8 into a campaign arc complete with an unaltered but knowledgeable and resourceful Ogre Mage BBEG at equivalent CR 10-12.

Play him like an idiot and it's an easy 8.

Fax Celestis
2009-01-20, 04:23 PM
Here's some ways to make ogre mages a bit more formidable (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/eo/20030905a). Here (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/dd/20060721a) is a "monster makeover" by Mike Mearls, which I rather like.

Keld Denar
2009-01-20, 04:24 PM
It depends. Their Invisibility and SU Flight are a royal pain in the butt if you aren't expecting it. A couple Enervations will make a party much less potent than they would be at full strength, especially if you can hit a wizard early with one.

Especially if you can have one start messin with a party while they are otherwise preoccupied with something else, or unable to seek cover.

Eldariel
2009-01-20, 04:45 PM
The thing that allows them to kick ass is Polymorph. Of course, their HD is relatively low for it. Getting few extra HD would make them beasts; 4 levels of Sorcerer = 9-Headed Pyrohydra, for example. Invisible, flying one at that.

AslanCross
2009-01-20, 06:03 PM
Here's a tip in advancing Ogre Mages:
While Sorcerer is a favored class, it isn't considered associated.
Why? It has no innate spellcasting. It has spell-like abilities that aren't enhanced by any Sorc levels. This means that you can add up to 6 Sorcerer HD with only a CR increase of 3 (considering you're using the version that Fax posted, which is what I use too).

I find that Warlock makes a good class to add to the Ogre Mage as well.

Keld Denar
2009-01-20, 06:29 PM
Spellthief is better! A mischeivious little bastard just got moreso. Add in Darkstalker and max out hide/move silent and with their Invis, your casters won't even realize why they feel so dumb some days...lol

Fax Celestis
2009-01-20, 06:31 PM
Spellthief is better! A mischeivious little bastard just got moreso. Add in Darkstalker and max out hide/move silent and with their Invis, your casters won't even realize why they feel so dumb some days...lol

Ogre Mage + Spellthief + Master Spellthief + wand of ray of stupidity = Int damage, thieved spells, and an invisible, flying ogre mage.

thegurullamen
2009-01-20, 06:33 PM
Ogre Mage + Spellthief + Master Spellthief + wand of ray of stupidity = Int damage, thieved spells, and an invisible, flying ogre mage.

And there're the uber-CR bumping tactics I mentioned.

Feel free to check out afroakuma's Ogre Mage ninja in his VUAVillain IV. It's cool. And really well thought out.

Yahzi
2009-01-20, 10:29 PM
The thing that allows them to kick ass is Polymorph. Of course, their HD is relatively low for it. Getting few extra HD would make them beasts; 4 levels of Sorcerer = 9-Headed Pyrohydra, for example. Invisible, flying one at that.
Errr... no.

Change Shape (Su)
An ogre mage can assume the form of any Small, Medium, or Large humanoid or giant.

No Pyrohydras for ju! :smallbiggrin:

They are still cool. Invis at will + Flight + a strength bow = mad sniper. Or give them mooks to occupy the PCs while they sneak into flanking position and Power Attack. And don't overlook change shape into a helpless-looking NPC combined with charm person.

But if you just stick them on the board and say, "Roll initiative," then ya, they die easy. Especially against 4 8th level chars; an encounter like that is only supposed to use up 1/4 the party's resources.

Eldariel
2009-01-21, 04:40 AM
Errr... no.

Change Shape (Su)
An ogre mage can assume the form of any Small, Medium, or Large humanoid or giant.

Ah, I went with the version in the article Fax linked; that's listed as having a daily use of Polymorph.

Ethdred
2009-01-21, 05:30 AM
They have regeneration?? CRAP CRAP CRAP! How did I miss that? No wonder my party took it down so easily. Right, they are going to pay for that.

I was running an ogre mage as a boss of an ogre/bugbear mining camp, and the party failed in their first assault, but they did a lot of damage, which I couldn't heal up. But obviously the ogre mage would have been at full HP when they returned - and the gaseous form would have been a great escape mechanism to re-heal after they returned (the invis was useless because of the party warlock).

I now feel the need for them to run into the ogre mage's brother...

Tsotha-lanti
2009-01-21, 05:55 AM
Ogre magi, even with their regeneration and invisibility and flight, are an example of how single creatures do not make good encounters. An 8th-level party should have no trouble dealing 40+ damage to the ogre mage in a round or two, and then they can apply fire and acid at their leisure. However, when paired even with a bunch of regular ogres as meat shields, the magi are much better.

PinkysBrain
2009-01-21, 06:01 AM
The thing that allows them to kick ass is Polymorph.
Using polymorph against players invokes MAD, nothing will be left but ashes.

Eldariel
2009-01-21, 06:02 AM
Using polymorph against players invokes MAD, nothing will be left but ashes.

That's the whole point.