Another_Poet
2009-01-20, 05:22 PM
Hi guys. So, I've long wondered where the word "paladin" comes from and recently I found out. For historical trivia, see here:
"Paladin" derives from Latin palatii/palatinus, "of the palace," an adjective applied to a certain class of young nobles in Rome, having the association of "royal" or "imperial."
In feudal times it became a title in its own right. Its earliest famous usage was in the stories of the Twelve Paladins of Charlemagne's court, actually some 13-15 men (depending on the story) who were companions and men-at-arms of either Charlemagne himself or of his martyrous knight Roland. The Twelve Paladins received literary treatment as a sort of French round table, and rivaled Aurthurian stories for mediaeval popularity.
By the Renaissance the title was typically assigned to a single person who was the personal agent of the king, especially in Hapsburg-influenced kingdoms. Thus it was a viceroy position. In Germany and England it was also applied to a knight or lord who was allowed to exercise special powers normally reserved for the king; in the Renaissance it described a group of nobles who were allowed to elect new Holy Roman Emperors; and in Poland it became a title given to a second-in-command (often a relative) of any nobleman, royal or otherwise. It was generally an appointed, not hereditary, position.
As it turns out, these historic real-world paladins are quite unlike the saintly knights of our D&D games.
Gruesome paladin details:
There's a long list of paladins (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electoral_Palatinate) on Wikipedia, and it isn't all-inclusive by any means. Not every paladin was a wicked man; most were standard aristocrats, who partook in warfare, duels, and political scheming but no particular atrocities. Nonetheless, as high ranking authorities in the oft-horrific feudal system, paladins shouldered more than their share of dirty deeds.
The crimes of the paladins listed there range from wife murder to blatantly violating their own peace treaties. I think the winner for worst paladin, however, might well be Juraj Thurzo, the Palatine of Hungary in 1610. Here are the accolades of Palatine Thurzo from the Elizabeth Bathory (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Elizabeth_Bathory) entry at wikipedia (emphasis added):
Finally, in 1610, King Matthias assigned Juraj Thurzo, the Palatine of Hungary, to investigate [a series of brutal murders]... A trial was held on 7 January 1611 at Bytča... [several peasants named] Dorko, Ilona and Ficko were found guilty and put to death on the spot. Dorko and Ilona had their fingernails ripped out before they were thrown into a fire [alive!], while Ficko, who was deemed less guilty, was beheaded before being consigned to the flames. A public scaffold was erected near the castle to show the public that justice had been done. [A fourth peasant named] Katarína Benická was sentenced to life imprisonment, as she only acted under the domination and bullying by the other women, as implied by recorded testimony.
The king and palatine were very concerned about implicating nobility in the murders, and so they let the actual serial killer, a countess, remain untried and unsentenced, although she was confined to her rather large estate. Their fear was that any trial of a noblewoman would lend strength to anti-aristocratic sentiments and destabilise the government.
Of course, this being the internet, all tirades must culminate in Hitler links, and my tirade is no different: even the Fuhrer had his own paladin (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Palatine), Hermann Goring, commander of the Luftwaffe and one of the men who ordered the Holocaust. The title "paladin" was bestowed on Goring to signify, in accord with German custom, that he was second in command to the ruler; and indeed Hitler had specifically designated Goring as his successor in the event of his death.
The common thread in the biographies of most of the historic paladins is that they were indefatigable agents of law. Not lawful goodness - just law. Being highly placed within the ruling class, they had every incentive to uphold the rule of law under all circumstances.
Many of the historic paladins continued to support their king/emperor/duke even when the man hated them, or was openly hostile to their family, because they supported the system that kept him--and themselves--in power. Even if it meant guarranteeing the rights of their scheming enemies, they were firm supporters of monarchy and divine right.
The Palatine (new base class)
I am trying to homebrew a new base class for D&D 3.5 that reflects these royalist paladins. I want to portray them not as lawful evil (though some may be), but as lawful lawful, whether that be LG, LN or LE. These are the personal agents of the king's justice. These are men and women who, like the Palatine of Hungary, feel that torture and burning alive are fair punishment for those who disturb the peace, mere beheading is getting off easy, and life in mediaeval prison is appropriate for those who were in the wrong place at the wrong time. Paladins who will do anything and everything to protect the royal government. Dangerous, powerful paladins with agendas.
This is where you come in, fellow Playgrounders. I need suggestions for what class abilities such a person should have. You can invent new class abilities or you can suggest abilities from the various classes in the splatbooks. (If the latter, please explain the ability; I don't have many books to use.)
I realise this type of palatine won't do anything to make paladins better teammates for a typical adventuring party. The class may work best as an NPC class, and that's fine by me.
I will continually update the thread here until we have a workable class for levels 1-20.
Paladin Abilities I Want to Keep:
-I think adding Cha to saves is good, as the palatine survives through sheer determination and force of will.
-Ability to cast some divine spells is good. For flavour, they gain spells from their faith in their monarch, (who is a deity incarnate to them), not from some actual god.
-Smiting is good, but not Smite Evil. I think the palatine should be able to smite anyone who hinders their mission from their ruler.
Other Abilities I'd like to see:
-Diplomacy-based abilities or special uses for Diplomacy, reflecting the palatine's roll as an ambassador.
-Knightly abilities of all kinds would be great.
-Perhaps some special death attack or execution mode; feel free to suggest something along these lines.
Abilities I DON'T Want:
-Paladin's mount
-Tome of Battle-esque maneuvres or the like
Please help - all ideas are appreciated!
"Paladin" derives from Latin palatii/palatinus, "of the palace," an adjective applied to a certain class of young nobles in Rome, having the association of "royal" or "imperial."
In feudal times it became a title in its own right. Its earliest famous usage was in the stories of the Twelve Paladins of Charlemagne's court, actually some 13-15 men (depending on the story) who were companions and men-at-arms of either Charlemagne himself or of his martyrous knight Roland. The Twelve Paladins received literary treatment as a sort of French round table, and rivaled Aurthurian stories for mediaeval popularity.
By the Renaissance the title was typically assigned to a single person who was the personal agent of the king, especially in Hapsburg-influenced kingdoms. Thus it was a viceroy position. In Germany and England it was also applied to a knight or lord who was allowed to exercise special powers normally reserved for the king; in the Renaissance it described a group of nobles who were allowed to elect new Holy Roman Emperors; and in Poland it became a title given to a second-in-command (often a relative) of any nobleman, royal or otherwise. It was generally an appointed, not hereditary, position.
As it turns out, these historic real-world paladins are quite unlike the saintly knights of our D&D games.
Gruesome paladin details:
There's a long list of paladins (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electoral_Palatinate) on Wikipedia, and it isn't all-inclusive by any means. Not every paladin was a wicked man; most were standard aristocrats, who partook in warfare, duels, and political scheming but no particular atrocities. Nonetheless, as high ranking authorities in the oft-horrific feudal system, paladins shouldered more than their share of dirty deeds.
The crimes of the paladins listed there range from wife murder to blatantly violating their own peace treaties. I think the winner for worst paladin, however, might well be Juraj Thurzo, the Palatine of Hungary in 1610. Here are the accolades of Palatine Thurzo from the Elizabeth Bathory (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Elizabeth_Bathory) entry at wikipedia (emphasis added):
Finally, in 1610, King Matthias assigned Juraj Thurzo, the Palatine of Hungary, to investigate [a series of brutal murders]... A trial was held on 7 January 1611 at Bytča... [several peasants named] Dorko, Ilona and Ficko were found guilty and put to death on the spot. Dorko and Ilona had their fingernails ripped out before they were thrown into a fire [alive!], while Ficko, who was deemed less guilty, was beheaded before being consigned to the flames. A public scaffold was erected near the castle to show the public that justice had been done. [A fourth peasant named] Katarína Benická was sentenced to life imprisonment, as she only acted under the domination and bullying by the other women, as implied by recorded testimony.
The king and palatine were very concerned about implicating nobility in the murders, and so they let the actual serial killer, a countess, remain untried and unsentenced, although she was confined to her rather large estate. Their fear was that any trial of a noblewoman would lend strength to anti-aristocratic sentiments and destabilise the government.
Of course, this being the internet, all tirades must culminate in Hitler links, and my tirade is no different: even the Fuhrer had his own paladin (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Palatine), Hermann Goring, commander of the Luftwaffe and one of the men who ordered the Holocaust. The title "paladin" was bestowed on Goring to signify, in accord with German custom, that he was second in command to the ruler; and indeed Hitler had specifically designated Goring as his successor in the event of his death.
The common thread in the biographies of most of the historic paladins is that they were indefatigable agents of law. Not lawful goodness - just law. Being highly placed within the ruling class, they had every incentive to uphold the rule of law under all circumstances.
Many of the historic paladins continued to support their king/emperor/duke even when the man hated them, or was openly hostile to their family, because they supported the system that kept him--and themselves--in power. Even if it meant guarranteeing the rights of their scheming enemies, they were firm supporters of monarchy and divine right.
The Palatine (new base class)
I am trying to homebrew a new base class for D&D 3.5 that reflects these royalist paladins. I want to portray them not as lawful evil (though some may be), but as lawful lawful, whether that be LG, LN or LE. These are the personal agents of the king's justice. These are men and women who, like the Palatine of Hungary, feel that torture and burning alive are fair punishment for those who disturb the peace, mere beheading is getting off easy, and life in mediaeval prison is appropriate for those who were in the wrong place at the wrong time. Paladins who will do anything and everything to protect the royal government. Dangerous, powerful paladins with agendas.
This is where you come in, fellow Playgrounders. I need suggestions for what class abilities such a person should have. You can invent new class abilities or you can suggest abilities from the various classes in the splatbooks. (If the latter, please explain the ability; I don't have many books to use.)
I realise this type of palatine won't do anything to make paladins better teammates for a typical adventuring party. The class may work best as an NPC class, and that's fine by me.
I will continually update the thread here until we have a workable class for levels 1-20.
Paladin Abilities I Want to Keep:
-I think adding Cha to saves is good, as the palatine survives through sheer determination and force of will.
-Ability to cast some divine spells is good. For flavour, they gain spells from their faith in their monarch, (who is a deity incarnate to them), not from some actual god.
-Smiting is good, but not Smite Evil. I think the palatine should be able to smite anyone who hinders their mission from their ruler.
Other Abilities I'd like to see:
-Diplomacy-based abilities or special uses for Diplomacy, reflecting the palatine's roll as an ambassador.
-Knightly abilities of all kinds would be great.
-Perhaps some special death attack or execution mode; feel free to suggest something along these lines.
Abilities I DON'T Want:
-Paladin's mount
-Tome of Battle-esque maneuvres or the like
Please help - all ideas are appreciated!