MitD theories

[Ted The Bug]

Because unfounded ideas make the world go round!
Basically, I'm just curious about what people think the MitD COULD be, and why. I'm sure there have been many topics on this, but I'm somewhat new here (this is around my fifth post).
Random unfounded theory: Something involving the Eastern Gods. It could be interesting.

[MReav]

A lightly-psionic giant space hamster.

[Jural]

He's almost certainly Drizzt Do'Urden from Forgotten Realms fame. Since Miko dropped the mantle, it must be the MitD.

The Incredible Hulk is another solid guess, and I can't rule out Super Mario.

[Kish]

The best serious theory I've seen was...some kind of epic monster, I forget the name.

[Nerdanel]

A Half-Earth Elemental Half-Dragon (Crystal) Tarrasque.

It's the closest I could get to :mitd:'s demonstrated abilities and qualities. It fits remarkably well. (For example, this combination has Earthquake 1/day as a spell-like ability.)

Stacked templates for the win!

[magic9mushroom]

A Half-Earth Elemental Half-Dragon (Crystal) Tarrasque.

It's the closest I could get to :mitd:'s demonstrated abilities and qualities. It fits remarkably well. (For example, this combination has Earthquake 1/day as a spell-like ability.)

Stacked templates for the win!

Explain what prompted each of these, if you wouldn't mind. I'm interested.

[Underground]

Especially I would love to know why a being that is Half-A Half-B can also be C.

At least according to my math skills, 0.5 + 0.5 + 1 = 2 and not 1.



Oh, and about the thread: I guess my favorite theory is that the MitD is the Snarl. Otherwise, my guess would be something custom made.

[tom712]

Draconic Hill-Giant

[Tholok Razescar]

Tarrasque.
Chuck Norris.
Chuck Norris mounted on a Tarrasque.

[Ceaon]

Especially I would love to know why a being that is Half-A Half-B can also be C.

At least according to my math skills, 0.5 + 0.5 + 1 = 2 and not 1.

It makes sense if you look at it like this: Half-X is a template, which means the creature has X's blood in him - maybe from one of his parents, maybe from one of his grandparents, maybe even further back. In latter cases, half-X is simply a misnomer and could have been "X-blooded".


Oh, and about the thread: I guess my favorite theory is that the MitD is the Snarl. Otherwise, my guess would be something custom made.

Snarl would be a fun theory, but Start of Darkness makes this very unlikely.
The MitD is recognized by hunters as a certain something (although the reader doesn't find out what exactly) almost immediately. Then they comment on how weird it is they found it in the jungle.

[Nerdanel]

The reasoning behind the Half-Earth Elemental Half-Dragon (Crystal) Tarrasque:

Our base creature the Tarrasque:
- Big, scary, tough, hard-hitting, rare, iconic creature but none too smart.
- Two eyes and one head.
- Bipedal, with two hands available for grabbing things.
- An attack to swallow whole, so babies could vanish from the plate without Xykon suspecting anything.
- Tough exterior. +30 to natural armor and damage reduction 15/epic explain why neither Miko nor Belkar was able to do any actual damage.
- Vulnerable digestive tract to facilitate swallowed characters from cutting themselves out, also making papercuts (like the one the letter to Durkon) possible inside his mouth.
- Frightful presence as a supernatural ability, so that :mitd: could get Haley and Belkar shaken with a "NO!" even though, based on his earlier trial performance with Xykon, he has about zero ranks in intimidate and little charisma.
- Not a discriminating eater. Tarrasques eat pretty much anything.
- Immune to poison, so that :mitd: can eat ancient, moldy sandwiches (as in the flashback with the goblins) without harm.
- An assortment of extra stuff.

Half-Dragon (Crystal) gives:
- The ability to meet the prerequisites of Half-Earth Elemental.
- The ability/will to talk. (Justifiable but not said outright.)
- +4 to natural armor, +8 to str, +2 to con.
- Darkvision
- Gem dragons live also on the Elemental Plane of Earth, which makes this combination somewhat justifiable.
- Chaotic Neutral alignment, which I think makes Crystal the best fit of all the gem dragons.
- And more fun stuff.

Half-Earth Elemental gives:
- Gleaming eyes for :mitd:
- +3 to natural armor, +4 to str, +4 to con
- Earthquake as a spell-like ability 1/day
- Planeshift as a spell-like ability 1/day (so :mitd: could have accidentally shifted himself into the material plane and into the story).
- Several more spell-like abilities.
- And more.

Proposed parentage:
(Crystal Dragon + Earth Elemental) + (Crystal Dragon + Tarrasque)
= Half-Dragon (Crystal) Earth Elemental + Half-Dragon (Crystal) Tarrasque
= Half-Earth Elemental Half-Dragon (Crystal) Tarrasque

------

This is a truly terrifying combination. When it grows up to large size it gains the ability to fly, something that the lack of which has always been the big weakness of the unmodified tarrasque. It has a ton of powers and immunities, and just for the irony is composed at least partially of clear crystal and can also breathe 1/day a line of light.

I think :mitd: is in truth white and shiny under the cover of darkness.

[Myou]

The reasoning behind the Half-Earth Elemental Half-Dragon (Crystal) Tarrasque:

...

That would be awesome.

It seems unlikely that Rich would choose to make the monster such an unusual mix but it would certainly appear to be a perfect fit with the chracter and abilities.

[Rad]

I think that Rich said that it is something that is present in the D&D material and not something that he made up (which, unfortunately, likely rules out the Snarl).

[Nerdanel]

As far as I know there isn't a base creature in D&D that fits :mitd:'s description completely. That's why I think he's a product of template-stacking, in addition to the reputation of multiple templates on one monster being famous for producing frightful results. (Just be happy there isn't Paragon or Monster of Legend there... as far as I know.)

I don't have access to all the monsters in 3.5 though, so there could be one I had missed. However, I'm pretty certain that within the SRD monsters and the Crystalkeep list of templates, my :mitd: is the best approximation I could achieve.

[Jan Mattys]

As far as I know there isn't a base creature in D&D that fits :mitd:'s description completely. That's why I think he's a product of template-stacking, in addition to the reputation of multiple templates on one monster being famous for producing frightful results. (Just be happy there isn't Paragon or Monster of Legend there... as far as I know.)

I don't have access to all the monsters in 3.5 though, so there could be one I had missed. However, I'm pretty certain that within the SRD monsters and the Crystalkeep list of templates, my :mitd: is the best approximation I could achieve.

And sure it is a nice approximation.
Still, since the Order is a comic not only made for D&D hardcorers, a half crystal dragon half earth elemental Tarrasque would be incredibly difficult to present to the "common crowd"...

I am expecting something with a simpler name, or at least a simpler description / explanation. (Assuming we will ever find out what's the MiTD... it's entirely possible that it remains an hidden joke never to be revealed. It would be funny that way as a trope inversion).

[Ragn Charran]

(Assuming we will ever find out what's the MiTD... it's entirely possible that it remains an hidden joke never to be revealed. It would be funny that way as a trope inversion).

I doubt Rich wants a torch-bearing angry mob of geeks charging at his house, so I doubt he'd do that.

[fangthane]

The reasoning behind the Half-Earth Elemental Half-Dragon (Crystal) Tarrasque:

Our base creature the Tarrasque:
- Big, scary, tough, hard-hitting, rare, iconic creature but none too smart.
- Two eyes and one head.
- Bipedal, with two hands available for grabbing things.

Some caveats... :)
The Tarrasque is actually a quadruped Magical Beast with no hands available for grabbing things (its Improved Grab is bite-based)
The Tarrasque has a +2 wisdom mod which gives it a spot bonus and its base skill check, per the book, is +17. (What gate?!)
I acknowledge that the other aspects may fit, but these don't, at least not terribly well. Application of the other templates may help a bit but that +17 spot is still a bit of a sticking point, since he'd need about a -12 rolled (-7, tops) to miss the gate. :)


Half-Dragon (Crystal) gives:

- The ability/will to talk. (Justifiable but not said outright.)

It's always been my ruling that if the base creature doesn't speak, and if there's no specific indication that a mute creature is given the ability, the creature doesn't gain it. I'd rule that a half-dragon dire bear or a half-dragon tarrasqueling would not, therefore, gain the ability to speak Common. That's up for debate though, as I'm sure others would claim any half-dragon must be able to speak as a function of its draconic heritage. However, there's no justification for it in the rules so while it's potentially arguable, it depends on a specific, unofficial interpretation.

The half-elemental template can be applied to whatever the MitD is, since it's obviously bright enough to jump to incorrect conclusions, but there are other means by which the MitD could acquire its apparent SLAs and additional AC/DR. So while it's possible, it's neither confirmed nor counterindicated by the information we've had available thus far.

[Dogmantra]

Childish and powerful? I'd say it's Pun-Pun :smalltongue:

[SkredlitheOgre]

The love child of Vaarsuvius' and Belkar's egos

[allenw]

I think that Rich said that it is something that is present in the D&D material and not something that he made up (which, unfortunately, likely rules out the Snarl).

He said that in "War and XPs", which I'm in the middle of reading. He also said that he's known what the MitD is since around #100, and has been leaving clues, which make it possible to guess correctly, and that he's sure someone will do so someday.

Of course, someone may have already done so, but Rich is unlikely to confirm it. A Half-Earth Elemental Half-Dragon (Crystal) Tarrasque, eh? That should be the same size as a "regular" Tarrasque, so it'd have to be a baby. I wouldn't believe in a baby Tarrasque (them being unique and unkillable and all), but a baby half-breed could be possible: Even if the Tarrasque should logically lack the capacity for sexual reproduction, that's overruled (for purposes of OotS, anyway) by the fact that the rules say that Dragons can interbreed with any living, corporeal creature.

There is at least one snag in your theory: the MitD was found in a jungle, which was apparently a surprising place to find it. The Tarrasque (and hence presumably it's "descendants") has "Environment: Any", so finding one in the jungle should be no more surprising than finding one anyplace else.

[Nerdanel]

Well, perhaps I should say the Tarrasque is rather a semi-bipedal or has been portrayed that way in some books.

Follow the link (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/monsters/tarrasque.htm) and click on the eye icon for one example. Even though the pictured Tarrasque's forelimbs reach the ground, they are clearly for grabbing things while the two hindlegs are structured for walking. Based on its anatomy, this version probably walks on its knuckles like a gorilla.

I've also seen images of the Tarrasque that look like they had been patterned after the Tyrannosaurus Rex with its relatively small and slender forelimbs.

According to my theory, the especially surprising part of finding :mitd: in the jungle was that he would be an Outsider (Earth) and therefore not native to the material plane.

[Brauley]

MitD is funny

[Llama231]

I am currently going with a Braxat.
No one has disproved this yet.:smallamused:

[Trixie]

You know, there has been already one monster who was a whole cheap of templates piled on a basically weak creature, so it is either possible, or unlikely (in case Giant doesn't want to repeat jokes).

By the way, what is CR of this modified Tarrasque?

[xyzzy]

As has been pointed out in other threads, Rich didn't specify that Monster-san would be a pre-existing D&D monster, only a pre-existing monster. It could be Cloverfield or Godzilla or something.

Also pointed out elsewhere, there's no way Monster-san will be some absurd combination that requires five books to comprehend what it is. When the reveal is made, Monster-san will be something iconic and recognizable to the sizable portion of the audience that's never picked up a rulebook.

[Myou]

You know, there has been already one monster who was a whole cheap of templates piled on a basically weak creature, so it is either possible, or unlikely (in case Giant doesn't want to repeat jokes).

By the way, what is CR of this modified Tarrasque?

Which monster was that? I can't remember.

[Rotipher]

The Tarrasque has a +2 wisdom mod which gives it a spot bonus and its base skill check, per the book, is +17. (What gate?!)

Maybe the MitD just didn't know what a "gate" looked like? :smallwink:

[Nerdanel]

A Half-Earth Elemental Half-Dragon (Crystal) Tarrasque has CR 25 as a grownup (CR 20 from Tarrasque. +3 from Half-Earth Elemental, +2 from Half-Dragon). At level 23 Xykon (he's probably a little below, but he could level up) he would have the same CR.

I think CR 25 may be underpowered for a grownup :mitd: though. Flight from a large-sized half-dragon is a massive game-changer. A normal Tarrasque is a tank. :mitd: would be a flying tank. And as per normal Tarrasque, it would take a Wish or a Miracle to get him stay dead, since he can regenerate from ANY damage, even something like Disintegrate + Gust of Wind. (Well, the Snarl might do it, but then there's a decent chance he would kill the Snarl instead, depending on how powerful it is.)

[MickJay]

Has there been a thread which summed up everything that's known about MitD in a nice, ordered list? Then someone who has all the monster manuals could simply go through them and see which monsters may fit (unless the hybrid tarrasque is the result of it). :smallwink:

[tom712]

Has there been a thread which summed up everything that's known about MitD in a nice, ordered list?
Yes, here (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?p=3067140#post3067140) in thread called Monster in the Darkness :smallbiggrin:

[Manga Shoggoth]

There is at least one snag in your theory: the MitD was found in a jungle, which was apparently a surprising place to find it. The Tarrasque (and hence presumably it's "descendants") has "Environment: Any", so finding one in the jungle should be no more surprising than finding one anyplace else.

If I recall correctly (never played beyond 2e), the Tarrasque is also unique, so it would be pretty surprising to find it at all.

My favourite theory so far (I forget who originally posted it):


It appears to be immune to damage from edged weapons, and by extension, scissors
It is vunerable to paper cuts, and by extension, paper
If it can defeat scissors and is defeated by paper it must therefore be a stone.

[Z-dan]

To all the people saying the size of MitD means he must be a baby tarrasque (or whatever): if it is indeed something not normally found on the material plane, then don't you remember when an archon appeared tiny, simply because although it could be over 7 feet tall on one plane that doesnt necessarily mean it is on this one? Can't remember where abouts the strip is, and I'm quite sure I didnt dream it...

I havent read War and XPs yet so I don't know what exactly Rich said, but if it's not necessarily a d&d monster then there's hundreds of possibilities...

[Bavarian itP]

Which monster was that? I can't remember.

There was a vampiric half-dragon half-troll lycantrophic fiendish snail (CR14) in one of the dragon magazine strips, the same strip that is referenced here: http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0475.html

[magic9mushroom]

I'd dispute that Earthquake --> half-Earth Elemental. The Earthquake could simply be by attacking the ground. It is worth noting, though, that the eyes on the MitD in its first appearance are identical to those on the Titanium Elementals. So that might be right.

From the way Xykon intends to reveal it, it is evidently a well-known monster. It also must be more scary than him. IE, it has a CR over 20. The only very-well known monsters in that CR range are very old dragons and tarrasques. Very old dragons aren't Medium-sized, that's for sure. Baby tarrasque therefore seems obvious.

"What gate" doesn't necessarily mean it has low Spot, as everyone seems to think. Remember that the Gates aren't literal gates. Hence, it's entirely plausible that MitD can see the gates, but doesn't put two and two together. Tarrasques have Int 3, they aren't going to be able to figure that one.

[Bavarian itP]

Remember that the Gates aren't literal gates.

http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0096.html

Looks pretty literal to me.

[Myou]

There was a vampiric half-dragon half-troll lycantrophic fiendish snail (CR14) in one of the dragon magazine strips, the same strip that is referenced here: http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0475.html

Ah. That's not really the same thing then, most readers won't have read those.

[magic9mushroom]

http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0096.html

Looks pretty literal to me.

Evidently not enough for the MitD, seeing as (in that very strip), he notices it AND DOESN'T RECOGNISE IT AS A GATE.

[Optimystik]

Evidently not enough for the MitD, seeing as (in that very strip), he notices it AND DOESN'T RECOGNISE IT AS A GATE.

He also thinks the "O" tiles in Scrabble are donuts, right up until he eats them. The things he says only indicate his low intelligence, not how things actually appear to be.

[Tre of the Wood]

Here is the thread that I made with my well thought out, supported theory. http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=92834

[Kish]

It makes sense if you look at it like this: Half-X is a template, which means the creature has X's blood in him - maybe from one of his parents, maybe from one of his grandparents, maybe even further back. In latter cases, half-X is simply a misnomer and could have been "X-blooded".

I don't think that's a good way to look at it. At least in 3ed, "half-fiend" and "tiefling" are distinctly different templates, even though they both represent fiendish blood. They're different because of the amount of fiendish blood, and "half-fiend" means exactly half. "A touch of dragon blood makes you a full half-dragon with all these features" would conclusively prove that sorcerers don't get sorcery from dragon ancestry--"Where are your scales?" and...um, it would be really silly. Arguably even sillier than humans being able to breed with everything.


Evidently not enough for the MitD, seeing as (in that very strip), he notices it AND DOESN'T RECOGNISE IT AS A GATE.
This is a circular argument. "The MitD need not have low spot, since the Gates aren't literal gates. It's a literal gate? Well it's not literal enough for the MitD."

[magic9mushroom]

He also thinks the "O" tiles in Scrabble are donuts, right up until he eats them. The things he says only indicate his low intelligence, not how things actually appear to be.

Exactly. Thanks for backing me up.

[magic9mushroom]

This is a circular argument. "The MitD need not have low spot, since the Gates aren't literal gates. It's a literal gate? Well it's not literal enough for the MitD."

No, it isn't. The MitD spots the Gate. That means his Spot isn't necessarily low. The MitD doesn't recognise the Gates as gates, hence low Int or Wis.

[Chronos]

In addition to RAGE KING!'s extensive list of knowns, we also now know, thanks to O-Chul, that Monster-san is definitely not evil. My money's on True Neutral, but I won't argue with Chaotic Neutral, either.

And I think that I was the one who came up with the "rock" (of paper, rock, scissors) theory, but my favorite serious answer is the one that I think Surfing Half-Orc came up with, that the Monster is the son of Godzilla. He's powerful enough and recognizable to almost all the readers (without crawling through splatbooks), while still being rather naïve. Size is a bit of a problem, but I'm willing to file that under Rule of Funny.

[Assassin89]

It could be possible that MitD holds black onyx gems since Redcloak comments in 299 (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0299.html) that unless MitD is volunteering his services as raw materials, he isn't going to help create undead.

[Rotipher]

"Raw materials", at least to me, sounds like what the spell is being cast upon, not "material components". The Target for the Animate Dead spell is one or more corpses.

OTOH, the fact that Redcloak made such a joke does indirectly imply that the MitD isn't already an undead creature. Not definitive, but it does narrow things down a bit.

[Surprise!]

"Raw materials", at least to me, sounds like what the spell is being cast upon, not "material components". The Target for the Animate Dead spell is one or more corpses.

OTOH, the fact that Redcloak made such a joke does indirectly imply that the MitD isn't already an undead creature. Not definitive, but it does narrow things down a bit.

I believe the giant already is letting us know with the MitD's speech bubbles. Black on white would denote something of this plane.

I am guessing a...

Geriviar!

It is a six limbed rock giant thingie from MM 3 (Which the Giant admitted to doing some monster for) It has the Shout ability ( http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0475.html ) And it's 33 strength could explain : ( http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0477.html//www.giantitp.com/comics)/oots0477.html (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0477.html)

The rule of funny could be used to explain it's inexplicable medium size (See Redcloak and Celia) and its listed intel is 11, while not as low as we have seen, the giant could have again rolled it down for the lulz.

Also fits in nicely with the Rock Paper Scissors theory.

Can't find it on SRD, here is description:

This massive, six-limbed creature stands a full 30 feet tall. Its rough gray hide is covered in thick, armored plates bulging with spiky protrusions that resemble oversized caltrops. The creature's head is sunken between its massive shoulders, and each of it's four arms has two elbow joints, giving the creature a rolling, smooth gait.

CR: 19
Usually Neutral Evil
Enviroment: Temperate Marshes

[DrakebloodIV]

Im guessing the worlds most effeminate Terraesque

[lothos]

Hey, rather than trying to guess exactly what the MITD is, I had an idea about how it might get revealed. Spoiler tags in case anyone doesn't want to read my crazy theory:



We are pretty sure that Kraagor's gate near the Northern polar cap will be the last gate in the story. We also can be reasonably confident Rich won't want to reveal what the MITD is till near the end of the story.

We know that Kraagor's gate was defenced by Srini - "...she decided she would fill it with the nastiest monsters in the world...."
(see http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0277.html)

So what if one of the monsters in the Tomb around Kraagor's gate is another of the species of the MITD ? They meet in the Tomb and the other one is also in a box/cage whatever in the darkness...... Perhaps they even fall in love and live happily ever after :-)



Apologies if others have posted this idea before.
Cheers !

[hamishspence]

problem is- Sabine also has black text white background. Odd. Maybe she's an exception.

[daggaz]

The MiTD is actually huge sized... he's just stooped over under that umbrella, as it is otherwise too small to hide him in the darkness.

[magic9mushroom]

Unlikely. A Huge creature can't fit into a 5-ft corridor.

[Number 6]

The best serious theory I've seen was...some kind of epic monster, I forget the name.

I think he's a Goristro from the Manual of the Planes, mostly because of the stamp attack.

[Adeptus]

What the heck is this Terrasque anyway? Some 3.0 or 3.5 critter?
http://www.wizards.com/dnd/images/dx0728ab_AD1_terrasque.jpg

I'm sure the MitD is something much more recognizable to the non hardcore 3.5 crowd.