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alfredbester
2009-01-23, 04:17 AM
Hey,

So one of my players, a wizard, accidently used their daily power twice and nobody caught it. The session is long over and "undoing" history really would be a silly option. I don't want to do some sort of experience penalty or anything harsh because well, I believe it was an accident (due to not playing too often between sessions) and I've been following the 4th edition "everyone has the same XP" suggestion with good success so far.

Can the wiseness of the forum think of a creative solution that doesn't overly punish the guy, or is the best solution to pretend like it's never happened?

Context: The characters are on level 3 of a 4 level tower with the presumable "boss" coming right up. It's a 6 PC party and they're level three.

It's a *fairly* casual group and I don't think anyone is going to lose sleep over it, but the wizard's daily (flaming sphere) did have a huge impact on the battle and I know the other players do have a sour taste in their mouthes because of it. (After realizing the spell shouldn't have been.) I would not really like to punish the wizard for their mistake, but at the same time I would like to award the players who take the extra time to take notes on what's happening and where their character is at. Doing nothing is certainly an option, but I believe it will maintain a slightly sour cloud over the party for a bit and lessen the "immersion" of the campaign experience and the camaraderie the players have developed.

In my brainstorming I've been thinking of giving the wizard the Fatigued condition until they long rest. Hmmmmmmmm.

Thanks!

koeldflare
2009-01-23, 04:20 AM
I probably wouldn't worry about it in most situations, but if you and your group feel that it did have a large impact on the last fight, I would simply say that the next day when the wizard picks his spells, he has doesn't have that one daily slot, since he used it the day before.

Zincorium
2009-01-23, 04:22 AM
The way I'd play it (although no matter the system I mark down uses by my players of 'per day' or charged powers):

The wizard will, at some point determined by you, lose the use of that daily power. This will be revealed past the point when delaying until the next day is not an option.

Tell the player this in a deadly serious tone, smile, and forget about the whole thing.

Nightson
2009-01-23, 04:22 AM
Do you get punished for not catching it either?

Inyssius Tor
2009-01-23, 04:23 AM
Give everyone else a coupon for One Extra Daily Use, to be redeemed whenever they feel like using it? That would seem to fit with the popular paradigm (bring the weaklings up to standard, instead of cutting the powerful characters down).

Tempest Fennac
2009-01-23, 04:28 AM
I agree with Inyssius (admittedly, none of the other players noticed wither, so they can;t really complain that much :smalltongue:).

Shpadoinkle
2009-01-23, 04:31 AM
It was one incident and an honest mistake, just let it go. But be sure to be more vigilant about keeping track of who has used thier daily powers already in the past. Call it a learning experience.

Ninetail
2009-01-23, 04:32 AM
If you really feel it needs to be addressed, give everyone in the party other than the wizard a minor perk. Maybe an action point that isn't "lost" during an extended rest, but that also can't be recovered in any way once spent. It's not quite the same effect, but everyone else's character will get to take an extra action in a future battle. If they tend to get lots of AP already, let this special one break the "one per encounter" rule.

Everyone else now has a chance, and only one chance, to be more powerful than they "should" during a future fight.

Don't punish the wizard's player for making a mistake, though. If you need to do anything (and you might not -- just acknowledging the situation before the next game and apologizing might be enough), then do something that'll lift the others up, rather than smack the wizard down. Fewer hard feelings that way.

Ellisande
2009-01-23, 04:33 AM
If it's a genuine accident, I'd generally think just saying, "Oops" and doing nothing is your best choice.

Of course, all the players that I've played with have been pretty laid back. If there's a genuine pall over your group, maybe it's not the best. Off the top of my head, other alternatives would include:

-Not giving him the daily power the next day. Simple, straightforward, and proportional. Unfortunately, in some ways in punishes the entire party.

-Giving everyone else in the party an extra use of their daily powers. Also fair to all the players, though it seems like overkill, particularly if you have a large party.

On preview, I see that both of these have already been suggested.

Is giving the wizard some sort of plot hook/enemy a possibility? It's a little less direct (and perhaps less satisfying to the other players), but could advance the story rather than create a discontinuity in the story.

Rad
2009-01-23, 04:35 AM
It was just an accident, just forget it.

Give everyone else a coupon for One Extra Daily Use, to be redeemed whenever they feel like using it? That would seem to fit with the popular paradigm (bring the weaklings up to standard, instead of cutting the powerful characters down).
No, don't do that. Seriously, don't.
Using a daily twice by mistake is one thing, having the chance to do that deliberately and knowing you have that option, being able to plan around it etc. is WAAAAY better than what the wizard did. Why did he have to "waste" his use randomly while the other players get to choose the exact right moment to spend theirs?
Just my 2cp

KKL
2009-01-23, 04:36 AM
Just do the easy thing and drop it like a rock. Oh well, crap happened.

Once, my party and I managed to sneak up on the drow encounter we were going to have to fight. One surprise round an action point, and the actual first round later, one of the male drow was dead (I take most credit for this) and one of the female drow were seriously hurting.

The fight quickly devolved into something out of Benny Hill, but we managed to win. Afterwards, he found out that one does not and cannot use action points in a surprise round. He just went "Oh well!".

So basically, forget about it. Not worth it to punish or reward everyone else.

lord_khaine
2009-01-23, 04:38 AM
yeah, it if really were a mistake then just let it pass.
in that case the rest of you are just as much to blame for not noticing.

Oracle_Hunter
2009-01-23, 04:46 AM
yeah, it if really were a mistake then just let it pass.
in that case the rest of you are just as much to blame for not noticing.

Absolutely.

People forget stuff all the time while playing D&D. Unless you suspect someone of cheating (that is "forgetting" penalties instead of just forgetting them) there is no reason to do anything but say "oops" and move on. Even in more serious RPG groups than the one you've got, the story is usually what's important, not mechanical rigor.

And why are the rest of your players bitter about the Wizard saving their butts with an extra Flaming Sphere? If they're going to carry on about it, chuck some d4's at 'em and give them something to really cry about :smallannoyed:

Kurald Galain
2009-01-23, 04:48 AM
Point him to the errata on Veteran's Armor :smallbiggrin:

Tsotha-lanti
2009-01-23, 05:43 AM
Do you get punished for not catching it either?

This seems only fair.

OP: Shrug, admit the mistake, and move on. What possible logic could there be to doing anything else?

Rules mistakes happen all the time. You won't get through any session without them, probably unnoticed. And it doesn't matter one bit. If you notice it, you should point it out and admit to not catching it before, and remind everyone how the rule actually works, and try to remember that the next time.

DisgruntledFrog
2009-01-23, 06:56 AM
I'd say that since none of the characters gained from the incident, none of the characters should be punished for it. Additionally, adding more power to the other characters to balance a percieved power imbalance is just making things worse. The solution should be out of character.

If you think your group really needs there to be consequences for this, I'd suggest you get that guy to "bribe" the group by way of punishment/apology. Get the wizard's player to buy the pizza next time or bring some beers (age dependant naturally) or bake some cookies or whatever. Just something minor that everyone will enjoy to restore the camaraderie you mentioned. Don't try and force him to do anything though, just say that you think it would be a good idea because of what happened and leave it at that.

Whatever you decide to do, since there's no precident for this situation in your group, you might just want give the guy a warning, let everyone know what the new rule is and that it applies from now on, and leave it at that.

Hope it all works out!

Leewei
2009-01-23, 06:59 AM
Letting the matter drop is fine if you trust your players. This will probably work for most people I know and play with. If people start "forgetting" and you want to add some teeth, move to a system where each player gets poker chips with permanent marker writing indicating Daily and Combat powers. The players have to toss in the chip when they use their power. You return these once they've rested up.

If you're feeling ambitious with a new group of players, a similar trick is printing out game mechanic details onto card stock. Players can then discard the power as it gets used.

caden_varn
2009-01-23, 07:01 AM
At most, I'd say to the group as a whole - 'Guys, please take care to mark off your daily power usage in future. If this happens again, there may be consequences.'
It's a one-off that you think is an accident. They happen, and it helps no one to make a big deal out of them.

If the group is working together, they should be happy as they collectively caught a break. The game is not about outdoing each other on damage, its a team game.

SmartAlec
2009-01-23, 07:12 AM
You guys use Power Cards? They can help cut down on this sort of thing in future, as well as being handy as a tool of reference.


If you're feeling ambitious with a new group of players, a similar trick is printing out game mechanic details onto card stock. Players can then discard the power as it gets used.

Basically, what he said.

Michaelos
2009-01-23, 07:16 AM
Add in that a person was stealthily following them, who has a daily power that can restore other people's daily powers from a distance and turn it into a plot point.

Satyr
2009-01-23, 07:21 AM
I wouldn't do anything in retrospective. Just mention that in the future it would have more harmful consequences than that. If the other players feel that they were penalised by this, than use the wizard as the target of the next bad thing that happens to the party for plot reasons, and that's it.
There is no reason to make a minor mistake like this should be of any signifcance for the game.

Totally Guy
2009-01-24, 04:29 AM
You think that's bad?

Today I'm going to have to tell our Dragonborn paladin that his "At Will" Healing hands is limited per day by his Wisdom modifier. He must have used it maybe 8 times in our last battle saving the party from total wipe out.

I'm just going to say "oops" and "Here's an NPC cleric".

Well actually I'm going to run a skill challenge for getting the cleric. Success being that local baddie Lady Galosia gives her blessing and throws in some money and failure being Lady Galosia objects and gets to to some local baddie retribution later for stealing the rebellious cleric.

Hopefully with all that going on the Paladin won't feel quite so bad about having his healing powers reduced.

BobVosh
2009-01-24, 06:26 AM
The way I'd play it (although no matter the system I mark down uses by my players of 'per day' or charged powers):

The wizard will, at some point determined by you, lose the use of that daily power. This will be revealed past the point when delaying until the next day is not an option.

Tell the player this in a deadly serious tone, smile, and forget about the whole thing.

This. Do this. Nothing can be more fun. Also it does solve several problems: you don't have to punish him, the other players will forget the issue, and you will have a 3 minute private chuckle.