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View Full Version : Destroying Captain Planet-Civillization Is Good!



Leliel
2009-01-23, 10:34 PM
Well, it's finally happened-my seething hatred of the whole "Science Is Bad, Nature Is Good!" thing that writers without any clue what they're writing about has finally reached the boiling point, where I have decided to create a D&D campaign around being heroic versions of the villains of that horror of the 90s, Captain Planet!

Besides giving my PCs a chance to live out their rage against that awful series, it will also allow me to explore the dynamic between nature and civllization-I expect the PCs to be rather deeper (OK, much deeper, since just being deeper would just mean they happen to be 2D) then the characters of the actual show, and be somewhat conflicted about what they do (ie, blast a bunch of fey to shreds so that they can set up cities and businesses).

That seems pretty defined by itself, but my question is:

Do you have guys have suggestions for what the villains of this plot should be (obviously a darker version of the Planeteers and the Pseudo Matriach Supreme (Gaia), but how should I make them directly villainous instread of just somewhat annoying)?

Weirdlet
2009-01-23, 10:41 PM
I remember at one point there was a big world-building exercise around here, where a campaign setting was written up in which a major druidic-magic catastrophe had ended the world as it was known in an explosion of world-wide tropical jungle. You may want to dig it up and look to that for some ideas. The forces of nature and growth without restraint are not pleasant, that much I remember.

Assassin89
2009-01-23, 10:42 PM
Look to Order of the Stick's insane gnome druid Leeky Windstaff for some inspiration. Make one member someone who is willing to bring trees to life in order to destroy everything.

TheLogman
2009-01-23, 10:44 PM
Druids, definitely Druids! Elementals are a must.

As for the whole mood, here's the thing. Have your PC's be agents of Balance, they have the interests of the whole planet in mind all of humanity and creation, not just civilization or nature.

The first week, this cabal of Druids comes up, each uses Druidic Elemental powers, and summons Elementals, maybe even an Omnimental (From the MM 3). These guys are nuking perfectly fine cities in the name of nature, but the cities are innocent, and not hurting nature at all. This is an example of Nature going too far, at the expense of humankind. Perhaps their plot-ending act is an attempt to end all of the everything. There is some monster in the Planar Handbook that wants to Unmake all of everything, returning everything, people and places to the basic elements. The druids want to purify the multiverse by eliminating everything.

But then next week, you can have the players fight an Orcish Factory that is spewing chemicals that is mutating everything, nature and civilization. These guys are an example of Civilization going too far, at the expense of humankind.

Your players have the interests of humankind as a whole at heart, progress without harm. Perhaps they are NG or CG, while the guys they fight are LN and NE on the druid side, and LN and LE on the other side.

MCerberus
2009-01-23, 10:48 PM
Evil druids are a laugh and a half. The half laugh comes from the near-dead children that they fed to a bear. As for the Planeteers themselves, elemental magic is easy to go evil with.

Water could flood fields, causing mass food shortages to cull the civilization dwellers.
Earth could collapse mines, killing miners and leaving others to die of dehydration. That'll show them to hallow out the mountain, taking their treasure to make evil implements of decadence.
Fire could burn down villages. 'Nuff said.
Air's going to be a little harder. Tornadoes maybe?

Heart... well you can go two directions. He could be a psychopath slaughtering his way through the intelligent species to create a glorious utopia filled with wild beast. I was thinking that, since the "heart" element is a joke, you can work in an Indiana Jones reference "KALI-MA!"

newbDM
2009-01-23, 11:01 PM
<Snip>


Wow, this is pretty disturbing.

I never understood the appeal of playing evil characters/campaigns.

Lappy9000
2009-01-23, 11:06 PM
Looting and polluting is not the way,
Here's what Captain Planet has to say:
"Feel the wrath of Gaia unnatural ones!" *Smites with the fury of nature*

Back on-topic, though, you should take a look at Eberron. They have five different druidic sects:

Ashbound: Probably the best source. Fanatical druids obsessed with wiping out all unnatural things, regardless of who or what they are.

Children of Winter: Embrace death as part of the natural cycle. They tend to use disease and decay against citygoers.

Gatekeepers: Sworn to guard planar gates from extraplanar invasion.

Greensingers: Have strong ties to the fey. Obviously tend to the Chaotic end of druidism.

Wardens of the Wood: Your basic druids. Concerned with protecting their forests and the life within. Often come into trouble with farmers/lumberers/city folk, but rarely are drawn to blows.

All of Eberron's druids are against wholly "unnatural" creatures, like abberations, constructs, and undead, but the more looney groups add dragons, humanoids, and outsiders to their list.

Leliel
2009-01-23, 11:48 PM
Wow, this is pretty disturbing.

I never understood the appeal of playing evil characters/campaigns.

...Except that this isn't an evil campagin.

It's an inverted version of Captain Planet, where the eco-villains are the good guys, and the Pesudo Matriach Supreme and her lackeys...aren't.

Dude, read the entre post next time.

Mando Knight
2009-01-23, 11:57 PM
Your players have the interests of humankind as a whole at heart, progress without harm. Perhaps they are NG or CG, while the guys they fight are LN and NE on the druid side, and LN and LE on the other side.

The PCs could also be LG... as the Lawful deities tend to be the ones who promote civilization...

Raroy
2009-01-24, 12:27 AM
Air could cause soil to come up from the ground and blow over miles of land in a wave of dusty death. Houses, rivers, peoples lungs, could be filled with dust destroying the land. People would step outside to see the horizon filled with haze and blood coming from their nostrils.

*Imagines* Head west young man.....

Seffbasilisk
2009-01-24, 01:13 AM
I had an Ashbound Druid do a few firebomb strafes of lumber camps with alchemist's fires. Any similar structure would work.

Trizap
2009-01-24, 01:16 AM
Well, it's finally happened-my seething hatred of the whole "Science Is Bad, Nature Is Good!" thing that writers without any clue what they're writing about has finally reached the boiling point, where I have decided to create a D&D campaign around being heroic versions of the villains of that horror of the 90s, Captain Planet!

Besides giving my PCs a chance to live out their rage against that awful series, it will also allow me to explore the dynamic between nature and civllization-I expect the PCs to be rather deeper (OK, much deeper, since just being deeper would just mean they happen to be 2D) then the characters of the actual show, and be somewhat conflicted about what they do (ie, blast a bunch of fey to shreds so that they can set up cities and businesses).

That seems pretty defined by itself, but my question is:

Do you have guys have suggestions for what the villains of this plot should be (obviously a darker version of the Planeteers and the Pseudo Matriach Supreme (Gaia), but how should I make them directly villainous instread of just somewhat annoying)?

Mad Scientist Trizap agrees with you

BobVosh
2009-01-24, 01:27 AM
But..but...but Captain planet fought Hitler once. Hitler with a Fu Manchu. Also angry eyes.


Anyway. Rings of elemental control do exist in the DMG. Surprised noone mentioned it. As for heart...well. I'm with the indian jones thing.

thegurullamen
2009-01-24, 01:46 AM
They each had power over an element. Power corrupts. So...

(song plays)
Earth! (shows a labyrinth of quarries filled with toiling earth elementals and slaves stretching as far as the eye can see--non-polluting of course)
Fire! (armed troops and battlemages swarm an industrial area or laboratory, destroying everything they can find)
Wind! (that Eurotrash b**ch is pummeling a favored soul of kord for daring to incite revolt against the planeteers)
Water! (ships and coastal towns who refuse to bow down to environmentalism meet with a large, rapid watery demise)
Heart! (Oh, dear God, the potential for Nightmare Fuel Unleaded Morality Event Horizon wonders is horrifying)

By your powers combined, I am...

TYRANNICAL OMNIMENTAL REBELS' HEADS ASPLODE!!!!! ENVIRONUKE!!!

lordhack
2009-01-24, 01:51 AM
The heart villian could be a sort of evil cultist, serving the opposit roll as in the series, and being pure evil, rather than the team "heart". Also, depending how dark you want to go, he could cut out the hearts of "civilized" beings, and use them in dark rituals.

chiasaur11
2009-01-24, 01:52 AM
But..but...but Captain planet fought Hitler once. Hitler with a Fu Manchu. Also angry eyes.


Anyway. Rings of elemental control do exist in the DMG. Surprised noone mentioned it. As for heart...well. I'm with the indian jones thing.

And Hitler hating him enough nearly killed him.

If you have trouble punching Hitler, you're a poor excuse for a superhero.

Deth Muncher
2009-01-24, 01:58 AM
And Hitler hating him enough nearly killed him.

If you have trouble punching Hitler, you're a poor excuse for a superhero.

Godwin's Law?

Mando Knight
2009-01-24, 02:15 AM
What kind of lame power is "Heart," anyway? (http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/WhatKindOfLamePowerIsHeartAnyway) Seriously.

...Or perhaps throw out "heart" ...as the villains decide that "heart" is a lame power.

MCerberus
2009-01-24, 02:18 AM
I still think that the heart guy should have a crazy cult Temple of Doom style. It just seems so fun.

Lycanthromancer
2009-01-24, 02:20 AM
Bloody heartless is what it is... (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/psionic/prestigeClasses/thrallherd.htm)

Agrippa
2009-01-24, 02:21 AM
I came up with this idea when thinking about what kind of really stupid things that Avatar's Koh could do to upset his fellow spirits. One of them was creating a corrupted alternative to the Avatar with multiple "Avatars". They would each start out with one element and would be villains from different fiction universes. It could work rather well without Koh and with only one elemental ring each.

Earth! The Kurgan
Fire! The Joker
"Some men aren't looking for anything logical. They can't be bought, bullied, reasoned or negotiated with. Some men just want to watch the world burn."
Wind! Jonathan Teatime
Water! Since water is also connected to life and change, I'll say Davros.
"It is an interesting conjecture. The only living thing. A microscopic organism reigning supreme. A fascinating idea. Yes, yes. To hold in my hand a capsule that contained such power. To know that life and death on such a scale was my choice. To know that the tiny pressure on my thumb. Enough to break the glass, would end everything. Yes, I would do it! That power would set me up above the gods! AND THROUGH THE DALEK RACE I SHALL HAVE THAT POWER!" (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Tr-Vt9EuRLw&feature=related)
"Today the Kaled race is ended, consumed in a fire of war. But from its ashes shall rise a new race. THE SUPREME CREATURE, THE ULTIMATE CONQURER OF THE UNIVERSE! THE DALEK!" (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_4Ae7hyGejU&feature=related)
Heart! Randall Flagg or Light Yagami

Draco Ignifer
2009-01-24, 02:24 AM
Heart is only a crappy power if you have morals. If you're amoral, then you build an army of fawning, desperate servitors who will die for your love, and drive those who love your foes from them. And, of course, there's the question as to how far the control goes...

"Yes, my lord!" *BANG!* (http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/CodeGeass)

Tempest Fennac
2009-01-24, 02:34 AM
I always thought Heart refered to Life energy, in which case it would be useful (thankfully, I can't remember enough abotut hat cartoon to remember what Heart exactly did*). I agree with using Winter's Children and Ashbound sect members as antagonists. You could also have them trying to open gates to elemental planes while attempting to turn people who won't abandon civilization into animals or plants (while that doesn't sound particularly evil, the antagonists could always have animals which eat their polymmorphed victims).

* I just checked that link. Wouldn't Mind have been more accurate?

Randel
2009-01-24, 03:05 AM
Well, one theme you could go for is that civilization is constructed by intelligent agents who each can work together to accomplish what they want while nature is made up of unintelligent animals who largely work just to help themselves (or at least only their own species) and can't really coopetrate.


If a disaster strikes a town, people can usually count on their neighbors or the local authorities to help them out. At the very least the kings or other leaders will work to stop the disaster and protect their subjects because otherwise they would lose people to tax.

If disaster strikes an area of animals, they are pretty much all going to fend for themselves and likely just run away. If there is a problem with the ratio of pedetors/prey/plants in an area then the whole ecosystem slowly rights itself via creatures starving to death or getting eaten. Evolution takes generations before a trait could manifest that might change anything.


Thus, you could say that nature itself is cold, merciless, chaotic, and largely uncaring about forming plans that would actually help the animals in the wild. A desert will remain a desert for pretty much all eternity, a few plants and rats might evolve to survive in a low-water environment and you would get cacti and kangaroo rats, but largely it would stay a desert. Nature wouldn't lift a finger to change that but civilization might. However, farmers could build aquaducts to bring water to the land and possibly grow crops there.


Civilization adapts the environment to suit its needs, nature just adapts stuff to the environment.


The Planeteers themselves could be rather shallow and chotic characters, their directive is basically to destroy anything that isn't biodegradable and not worry too much about the damages (seriously, Gia gave Weeler a ring that shoots fire. Does that sound like something you could use to protect forests with?).


Idea -

The planeteers work for the ancient primordials who created the universe. As raw elements and forces of nature, the primordials don't care much for complex things like trade, metallurgy, medicine, or the arts. They basically would love for the universe to remain as floating chunks of rock and magma in the intersteller void.

However, those first sparks or creation caused the gods to come into being... and the gods thrive on change, order, and patterns. A war was raged between the two groups, largely forming a stalemate as the gods and newly formed archons and angels battled the primordial forces.

Eventually, life emerged. Few people know exactly how or when. Some think that all life as we know it was actually created as some sort of biological weapon... possibly by the gods to damage and absorb the elements. Others believe that life is a manifestation of the primordials, a mix of the elements infused with positive energy... the element of 'heart'.

There is also the theory that all life as we know it is decended and evolved from the inhabitants of the Far Realm who had once swarmed through rifts in space that had erupted due to the cosmic battle being waged. That neither the gods or the elements can claim full power over living things.

Regardless, the old primordials and their elemental forces have an undying hatred for the gods and also to the intelligent mortals who serve them. The faith of these mortals gives power to the gods, making the gods and other celestial beings too powerful for the primordials to conquer at the moment.

Some mortals have been recruited by primordials, usually atheists or discontented youths who don't think things through enough. These youths are given special rings that channel primordial power and harness the faith they posess. It was a controversial plan, a gambit the primordials made which essentially created an elemental god who served loyal to the primordials. This "Captain Planet" had both the power of his primordial kin and the deities he is sworn to fight.

The Planeteers have been tasked with the job of destroying civilization, particularly places of worship or areas of particular hope like businesses or homes. The planeteers are often told by their primordial sponsers of all the evils that commited by humans. Several others have followed them, largely druids and certain mentally retarded paladins and blackguards. The powers of the primordials help fuel many of their followers, including the heart power which allows them to mentally dominate living creatures. This is used often by druids who try to give examples of the power of nature... ironically by mind-raping woodland animals and forcing them to charge into the spears of armed warriors or traps.

The primordials hold little more than disdain for all life, only caring about their planeteers and the animals so far as they are useful in the fight against the gods and mankind. They hope to one day destroy the gods and then all life in the universe, letting it return to the perfectly natural state.

Randel
2009-01-24, 03:44 AM
Oh, another crazy thought I once had was that when Gaia was handing out the rings, that she would give Wheeler his fire ring, then try giving earth to Kwame but he doesn't want it and wants fire instead. Gaia says that he should get earth since it suits him, Kwame gets angry and asks just what she means by that... and then Gaia gives him fire as well.

Wheeler and Kwame: Awesome! Fire! *both use fire*

Gaia then tries giving Linka the Wind ring but she thinks thats the lamest power around "You expect me to be the 'wind girl'? How am I supposed to do anything by blowing air at stuff?" after more argument Gaia gives her a fire ring as well.

Wheeler, Kwame, and Linka: FIRE!!

Gi sees the other using their fire power and thinks that water would be a good power to have. Gaia agrees and is about to hand her the water ring until Wheeler discovered that the fire ring can produce water (since fire is a result of burning flammable gasses then it can have water as a product of the reaction. Like turning methane which is hydrogen and carbon and igniting it with oxegen it results in carbon dioxide and water vapor). Gi asks if the water ring can create water and Gaia stalls for a bit before admiting that it cant it only lets you manipulate existing water. Gi thinks thats lame and she grabs another fire ring.

Wheeler, Kwame, Linka, and Gi: FIRE FOREVER!! *flames!*

Gaia looks at the big pile of rings she has left over and then says to Ma-Ti. "Okay, this is different. Listen I'll give you four each of these other rings. Earth, Water, Wind, and Heart if you'll just accept them. We need these rings to come in sets to keep balance and all so..."

Ma-Ti: I'll take those off your hands. *yoinks all sixteen remaining power rings*

End result, is that the planeteers are unable to summon Captain Planet because four of the group are equiped with what amounts to unlimited ammo magical flamethrowers... and Ma-Ti has massive power over the other four elements, presumably wearing eight rings on each hand. He's decided to take over a small country with the power of heart, and then use Earth, Wind, and Water to create a flying castle that rides on a thundercloud shaped like his own head.


The Planeteers try to stop loggers from cutting down a forest.

Kwame: Uh oh, looks like we'll have to do our thing again. FIRE!
Wheeler: FIRE!
Linka: More FIRE!
Gi: I also use FIRE!

Ominous Voice: By your powers combined, I am Captain FIRE!!

*A big human-shaped mass of fire appears and starts to "save the forest"*

Wheeler: Hmmm... maybe this wasn't such a good idea...

Cybren
2009-01-24, 04:45 AM
If the premise that infuriated you was the idea that 'science is eebil and nature is good!!', I think representing the conflict between progress & civilization and stagnation & nature just "the enemies are druids" is kind of lame. The mechanics of how they're represented is unimportant compared to the situation and set up of the setting.

Gaia should be a powerful and influential spiritual leader, with, naturally, a band of adventurers at her disposal (the planeteers). Whether they literally wield their corresponding element or simply have it as inspiration, the personality of the characters from the cartoon should show so that the players get the satisfaction of beating Wheeler into a bloody mess.

If you look at history, you will see a recurring theme of the "Golden Age" crop up repeatedly. We take the term from Greek history, but in all instances it is something of a myth where one believes that the current era is a dark age, and that the past held greater prosperity, knowledge, or any other quality valued. Gaia's spiritual leadership should hold that the current age is one of sin, impiety, and injustice. It should encourage living simply, respecting the 'natural order', and labor for its own sake (mechanical or magical assistance to work being seen as impure). At the same time, new schools of thought exist that have sought out knowledge, technology, and philosophy. The player characters are either the poets, philosophers, and scholars at the forefront of this, or the hired muscle by those who are.

I'd avoid using theology itself as a source of the conflict by doing something like making the PC's divinely charged to defeat Gaia, as that will remove the element of [demi]human civilization as a major player. Gaia represents magical thinking as opposed to rational thought.

Ganurath
2009-01-24, 05:07 AM
Earth: A Dwarf Stonelord who wants to isolate the dwarven race from the rest of the world so it will have peace. If that means destroying a few dwarven fortresses for the greater good...

Fire: A Tiefling Warmage gone Elemental Savant upon meeting up with the big bad, this pyromantic maniac has decided to purge the malign forces of the world with fire... Namely civilization.

Wind: A Raptoran Druid that launches bandit raids on urban areas with a small army of like-minded Raptorans and avian animal companions. They are prey in their nests, and as predators they shall feast upon their unguarded bounty.

Water: A Merfolk Beguiler who takes the conventional pranks to a wicked extreme in order to disrupt the world's naval infrastructure. Protect the fishies!

Heart: A Gnome Savage Bard is raising an army or armies under various disguises to bring down one of the bastions of civilization.

Gaia: A Succubus/Warlock/Mindbender with her heart set on puppetmastering the end of civilization, she's duped the five above into aiding her toward her nefarious ends. It's not as intimate as she'd prefer, but the ends justify the means, right?

horseboy
2009-01-24, 05:12 AM
I hated that show.

This one time I had a dream where I was a werewolf and I infected Cpt. Planet. Then together we hunted down the planeteers.

Neat idea, that way you can poke fun at the oWoD tree humping garou, too.

Tsotha-lanti
2009-01-24, 06:01 AM
Plot ideas? Plot ideas! (Warning, potentially politically offensive!)

- The ecoterrorists are planning to destroy a new genetically manipulated crop that would help fight starvation worldwide!
- The bad guys are supporting foreign aid that is reducing the viability of local industry and farming in the recipient countries, and the PCs must ... Huh, turns ut just punching doesn't solve these problems. The PCs must foster local industry so that it can actually find local markets, then become exports!
- The ecoterrorists are going to schools and lying to children about global warming and about rainforests being the "lungs of the planet" - they must be stopped before they turn the next generation into a bunch of antiscientific hippies!
- A charlatan is using trickery to convince people about the power of his newage crystal-herbal medicine, turning them into unscientific, irrational dumbos!
- Smug privileged hippies are appropriating aboriginal and foreign cultures to sell nonsense books about "energy" and ESP and astral projection - someone has to educate the public!

Er, I guess it'd help to know what sort of setting you're dealing with - real world? - but most of those can surely be worked into most settings that would support this...

martyboy74
2009-01-24, 08:32 AM
Godwin's Law?

Unfortunately, not. (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V0MVuWDc5RQ)

newbDM
2009-01-24, 08:37 AM
...Except that this isn't an evil campagin.

It's an inverted version of Captain Planet, where the eco-villains are the good guys, and the Pesudo Matriach Supreme and her lackeys...aren't.

Dude, read the entre post next time.

I did. I just figured killing off entire communities of sentient creatures to take their homes for yourselves (the fey) was more on the evil side of things.

Assassin89
2009-01-24, 08:39 AM
Unfortunately, not. (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V0MVuWDc5RQ)

Better negate that weakness in your Captain Planet. Come on, being weakened by someone staring at you should not be a weakness, unless it is part of a gaze attack.

Leliel
2009-01-24, 10:05 AM
-snip-

Well, actually, it was a bit of a perfect storm that caused me to lash out against The Great King Smurf in particular.

You see, I was fortunate enough to have not watched Captain Planet as a kid, so I only recently found out about the show (through the Nostagia Critic, but so what).

Up until then, I have always been an anti-Luddite, and that tv program was enough to put me over the edge. I was already planning on a game where the PCs are on the side of Science in the Science vs. Nature deabate, but that...thing...was the cincher.

Plus, I do not plan on portraying either side as inherently good or evil. The dichcotomy may be there this time, but it isn't there naturally.

Agrippa
2009-01-24, 01:23 PM
Instead of the heroes blasting away fey and druids to further civilization have the fey and druids realize, because they're not hippies or Luddites themselves, that humanity is part of nature as is our innovation and technological growth. The fey and druids are helping to build a world in which high technology and nature not only coexist but are mutually beneficial. Of course being the bloody-minded fanatics they are the Planeteers accuse the fey and druids collaborating with the "rape of nature" and attempt to slaughter them. Instead of nature vs. science you'd have nature and science vs. Ludditeism.

Dacia Brabant
2009-01-24, 02:35 PM
Eh, it may not be what you want but personally I would rather draw more inspiration from something like Princess Mononoke than Captain Planet, it's a lot more serious in its man-vs.-nature and the Balance between them themes.

Working on behalf of an "Iron Town" makes sense for PCs who defend the town from bloodthirsty Awakened Dire animals, tricky or just downright terrifying Fey and a crazy barbarian-druid girl who are attacking your city because it's "taking too much from the land and not giving anything good back" or something.

Then, if you aren't opposed to adding conflict on the good-guys' side, have a faction in the city who really do want to "rape the earth" of all its resources, and likewise a faction on the side of Nature who want to live in peace with their urban neighbor through diplomacy and some kind of fantasy version of applied environmental science. Putting the PCs in the middle of all that tension could be fun, and Awakened Dire Wolves who want to eat your face and Fey version of a Nightshade:Nightwalker are orders of magnitude cooler than four elemental rings plus Ma-Ti.

Unless it's the Four Fiends of the Elements, then that's a whole other story. A personification of rot, possibly an undead Shambler (Earth), a Dragon Turtle who can create tsunamis (Water), a human cyclone, possibly an advanced Djinn or Aerial Servant (Air) and a blaster sorcerer (Fire), who are all controlled by an evil overlord who's using them to wipe out the civilized races to make room for other life forms, that could work for you.

Uncle Festy
2009-01-25, 12:11 AM
(through the Nostagia Critic, but so what)

NC FTW!

This post brought to you by the association for abbreviations. Abbreviate everything!

xanaphia
2009-01-25, 01:27 AM
I still think that the heart guy should have a crazy cult Temple of Doom style. It just seems so fun.

Yes!!!!!!!!!!

Also, have the greenies be deluded, not evil. More fun that way.

Devils_Advocate
2009-01-26, 07:49 PM
I was already planning on a game where the PCs are on the side of Science in the Science vs. Nature deabate, but that...thing...was the cincher.
Well, Science and Nature aren't inherently opposed to each other at all.

Now, you can have a setting with a group of civilization-destroying, anarchist, luddite douchebags and a group of environment-destroying, native-slaughtering, imperialist douchebags, and those two groups will naturally be opposed to each other. You can even put the PCs in one group or the other. Just keep in mind that they'll both be opposed by anti-jerk factions, like the churches of Ehlonna (who seeks peace between wild and civilized beings) and Pelor (who opposes evil in all its forms).

Egregious, non-sustainable exploitation of natural resources is already attributed to goblins, hobgoblins, and orcs in the official books, I think. Maybe you could have the players play as those races?


but most of those can surely be worked into most settings that would support this...
Well, a plot where global warming is sham requires a fictional setting, obviously.

Also, several of your suggestions are Rationalism vs. Mysticism conflicts that don't really have anything to do with the environment. They don't actually make much sense in a D&D setting, where there's plenty of genuine magic, and it's magic that's the basis of advanced technology. But you could still have people trying to pass off phony tricks as real magic, just like people try to pass off bogus pseudoscience as real science in the real world. As in the real world, some of them may genuinely not realize that what they're hocking is fake.

So long as you keep it Skepticism vs. Gullibility, it's fine. If you turn it into Science vs. Magic, though, Science should lose in any remotely normal D&D setting, where magic is super pimp and mundane technology isn't too far past the level of water clocks and maybe primitive firearms.

Nerd-o-rama
2009-01-27, 02:19 AM
Heart!

Heart! (http://www.vgcats.com/comics/?strip_id=164)

Vizen
2009-01-27, 02:55 AM
The power of heart sounds kind of weak, but didn't it give Ma-Ti a kind of mind control?

Either way, if you give your guys one lots of mind-affecting abilities you could probably make him a formidable foe.

NeoVid
2009-01-27, 04:00 AM
The Heart power was essentially emotional manipulation.

And there's a reason mental manipulators are always depicted as EEEvil, except on that show.

...Was I the only one who liked that cartoon? :smalleek:

Khanderas
2009-01-27, 04:42 AM
If there is anything near Evolution going on, you got your villaineous motives there.
As Jaylyss put it while explaining to a doped up hippie (webcomic)... something like 'Evolution does not work that way. Mother nature is not nurturing every species to be all that they can be... she is a violent psychotic bitch who kills everyone weak enough so only the strong may leave their offspring.'

Basically, civilisation is putting intelligent races (or perhaps just races with opposable thumbs) above the natural strife and selection and must therefore be wiped out to preserve Mother Gaia's idea on what life "should" be. For this she empowered her 5 champtions with the forces of element and life (aka heart), as well as mutate homicidal creatures who can only eat manflesh, to rid herself of this disease known as civilisation.

Humankind now faces extinction and/or being beaten down to the stoneage. Will they bow down into the mud under this powermad elemental force of nature... or stand up to her, risking extinction of the human race.
... not to mention killing her, just may kill the ecosystem and thereby the whole world.:smallamused:

horseboy
2009-01-27, 04:46 AM
Well, a plot where global warming is sham requires a fictional setting, obviously.

I loled.

Anyway, to fit it into a D&D setting I'd suggest something like the old X1 Isle of Dread module, slightly modified. The human settlers bring in all their food plants and animals because they're unable to eat any of the local foods. The feral pop, rakasta and phantos (it's been quite a while I don't remember their exact spelling), freak out because of the introduced species and the pirates have been taking them as slaves. IIRC they didn't have much in the way of tech, well, I think the rakasta had "war claws" but they could just as easily be leather and bone. They fight and war with the humans then when things are almost settled a dinosaur comes in with a purposeful grimace and a terrible stomp where everyone has to work together.

Khanderas
2009-01-27, 04:55 AM
The Heart power was essentially emotional manipulation.

And there's a reason mental manipulators are always depicted as EEEvil, except on that show.

...Was I the only one who liked that cartoon? :smalleek:
I actually had a secret love of this show and it's over the top black and white morailty. More specifically when they summoned Captain planet, I got goosebumps even if the rest of the show was farily unmemorable.

I suggest Heart be upgraded into Life. Take life. Reanimate life. Induce biological functions (adrenaline, berserker rage, lust). Permanent mutations. Ma-ti or whatever your name for him/her would gain a lot of respect fear. Or, if you want pure hate from the PC's on him... a streak of sadism (say psychological warfare by mutating civilised humans livestock so they scream in pain every night... in humanlike voices).:smallbiggrin:

They should also function like liches, insofar killing them only sends them back to Gaia (she is able to clone them as ... well Gaia), with the rings worthless in anyone elses hands.

Im sure I can make up some nasty versions of the Elemental planeteers as well, but I always make posts too long to read.

Roderick_BR
2009-01-27, 06:36 AM
First: I don't know why you think that CP is "awful". They are not against technology, but about polution and destroying the natural world. Heck, they have an airplane/submarine that runs on solar power! You want more technology than that?

Second: Agreed with druids. Crazy guys that think that humans are a "stain" in the world, and tries to fanatically destroy everything is a good use of nature-based villains. For CP himself, you could use an unarmed swordsage elemental.

Oh, yeah, the rings are artifacts that works only in the "choosen ones" hands, and can teleport to it's rightful owner (I know the Earth ring did it once)

JeenLeen
2009-01-27, 10:47 AM
For Heart, I recommend an evil Evangelist, from Complete Divine. I'm not sure how powerful he would be in a fight with the PCs, but his ability to convert enemies would make for terrifying stories: peaceful druids suddenly join the villians, or a town's paladin turns evil. For a normal Evangelist, the player either gets a throwing save or a choice to stay evil when the ability wears off, but you could make the ring give him higher DC for the ability. He could also be the evil party's diplomat, creating cults or subverting society until the others come and destroy it.

Tacoma
2009-01-27, 02:57 PM
First off, I think your backlash is wrong, for these reasons:


Civilization may be good for people, but you still have to live within a natural environment. If you tear down all the forests and pollute everything, where will you get food? The carrying capacity of a desert planet is almost nil. It's better, in a logical as well as moral sense, to manage resources rather than clear-cut.

Second, these druids and fey and such are intelligent, perhaps kind creatures - they just like to live in loose communities under an open sky instead of dense artificial cities. And for that sin the PCs will kill them all? A genocide warranted by a different way of living and a desire for their resources? Sounds an awful lot like textbook Evil to me.

Third, resources may seem infinite but they're really not. There are a number of trees, a limited amount of nutrients in the soil, a limited amount of metal and gemstones and water. But in the standard D&D setting we don't encounter anything close to those limits. There's always another forest just over the next hill. And there aren't nearly enough people to fill the world. Unless the forces of Civilization are going into the wild places and destroying them just for the fun of it, there are far more wild places than civilization can make use of. There's no reason to have conflict. Again, humanity must be evil to go out pillaging the unicorn horns and sacred springs just because they want to.

Captain planet may have been too black and white, too simple an analysis, and too reactionary. But the answer isn't really to go in the exact opposite direction - that's just as simpleminded and wrong.


That said, if the PCs are on the side of civilization and their enemies are on the side of the wilderness, we can assume a win-lose scenario:

PCs win: Humanity destroys the wilderness, fueling their industry. The (demi)human population blossoms. The monsters all get hunted down, or starve for lack of hunting / grazing land. We go for a Tippyverse where magic solves every problem, or not, but it's really boring because minus magic it's basically real life. The result minus magic would be more like Dark Sun. With magic, which is either renewable or of such vast quantity that it can sustain all the (demi)human races, it's more like Necromunda.

PCs lose: Humanity continues to live in small communities with just enough farming and herd animals to sustain themselves. Or humanity is forced into a hunter-gatherer lifestyle imposed by the druids.

One way to keep the PCs from a guarantee of being evil is to have the Druids be evil in the first place. The druidic extremists want to destroy civilization and impose that hunter-gatherer lifestyle - even though most people would consider that to be wrong. In any case, defending yourself against an attacking force can hardly be called a bad thing.

The trick is not muddying it by having the druids' attack be in retaliation for rampant clearcutting and such. Because the root cause then is the attack upon the druid forest by the city's sawmills and so the city is at fault for the conflict. The city, if good, must back down and stop the attack.

horseboy
2009-01-28, 12:56 AM
Civilization may be good for people, but you still have to live within a natural environment. If you tear down all the forests and pollute everything, where will you get food? The carrying capacity of a desert planet is almost nil. It's better, in a logical as well as moral sense, to manage resources rather than clear-cut.

The problem is never the concepts of things like "replant a tree and cut the new one down in 15 years". That's pretty common sense (and yes, we can throw in the adage about "common sense" here). It's more the fascism that's hiding behind it. CP was so painfully obvious an indoctrination tool I expected at any time to see the Planeteers start goose stepping.

Inyssius Tor
2009-01-28, 01:46 AM
The problem is never the concepts of things like "replant a tree and cut the new one down in 15 years". That's pretty common sense (and yes, we can throw in the adage about "common sense" here). It's more the fascism that's hiding behind it. CP was so painfully obvious an indoctrination tool I expected at any time to see the Planeteers start goose stepping.

Can we please, please not get this thread locked? Please?

That is to say, this forum is very sensitive around real-life issues like environmentalism. Two posts like yours could very well be plenty of justification to just lock a thread that I would be very interested in seeing continue. I hope this isn't "vigilante modding", but the usual mod reply to this sort of thing is "discussion of real life political issues goes against the Forum Rules, and even if you've been mostly polite so far some of the posters have clearly demonstrated that it's treading a very narrow line. Thread locked" ... so I don't see any other alternative.

Khanderas
2009-01-28, 03:12 AM
I agree with above poster (Inyssius Tor).
The thing that irks people about Captain Planet, is that the villains were so very out there. They poured toxic waste because they thought it was fun or because they hated nature. Only one of the regular villains were in it for the money, when most, if not all, pollution is a direct effect of negligence / saving money.

Industrialised forests are not usually cut down after 15 years, it is more like 80.

And noone loves my ideas as much as I do:smallfrown:. Frankly I thought my two posts here were beyond good and past awesome in creating a good set of protagonists (save civilisation, possibly all humankind) and evil-with-justification antagonists (nip the upstart despoilers before they get worse).
:smallredface:

skeeter_dan
2009-01-28, 05:02 PM
I like Captain Planet purely out of nostalgia, not because it was any good.

In any case, Heart is an awesome power if you're evil. Emotional manipulation plus animal control = sweet. I'm picturing a Druid with hordes of animals under his sway...

MickJay
2009-01-28, 08:16 PM
Idea for "bad guys'" agenda:

Setting: civilisation and advances in science/magic/whatever make life easier for intelligent creatures. This ultimately leads to degeneration: a number of generations were using artificial aid, and if the magic/technology was lost, whole species would face exctinction, as they become too reliant on their "crutches". Many of those who would have otherwise died without having children were able to live long enough to reproduce (thanks to the civilisation's advances, of course); their children, in turn, often need those advances to even greater degree to survive and have children of their own, and so on; natural selection stops working and the percentage of population that would be able to survive if the civilisation was to break down is gradually decreasing.

Enter the nature-oriented radicals. Their aim is to eliminate "unnatural" things that aid survival of those who would have perished if nature was to take its course. Their ultimate goal is to ensure the survival of the fittest, and the survival of the species as whole. They reason that if the current trend would continue, any future crisis that would deprive people of the technology would also ensure their total extinction. Thus they want to speed up the crisis(which they consider inevitable, sooner or later) while there's still time, to strenghten the intelligent races and ensure their survival, even at a cost of huge casualties; better to cause deaths of 2/3 of population now than to observe its total extinction later.

Of course, presented in this light the agenda of radicals would be a genuine lesser evil; it's aimed at breaking stagnation and introducing, beneficial in the long run, chaos. To prevent PCs from wanting to join the eco-terrorists, it would be useful to create strong doubts about the validity of some of the "bad" beliefs, for example: crisis is not inevitable; if crisis happens nature will take its course anyway, no need to speed it up; there would be survivors anyway, no need to make people die now; artificial crisis would actually be even more against the natural course of things than the civilisation is; or the whole theory is merely a cover for some grand sinister scheme (ensuring huge supply of fresh corpses for a group of powerful necromancers?) that may be a secret to even the majority of "bad guys" (who, with exception of the few on top, are acting in good faith).

Ellisthion
2009-01-29, 07:20 AM
Wasn't there an episode where the planeteers were being tempted and corrupted by the power of some snazzy arm bands that were better than there rings? Or something? (Loooooooong time ago)