Constructed Languages

[Collin152]

So. I've discovered, in my pursuit of zany and geeky wastes of time, the art of Conlang, the Constructed Language. So, naturally, I took it upon myself to construct, for myself, a language.
It's hard. But oh so fun.
Now I know I'm not the first. Anyone here done it before? It'd be great to hear about it.
Once I've got a more fleshed out language, I'll probably share it with all y'all, too.

[Dragonrider]

Oohooh! :smallbiggrin: I've made up three. Clicky on the picture in my sig. :smalltongue:

[Sneak]

I created Esperanto.

Word. :smalltongue:

[Moff Chumley]

How does one go about creating languages?

[VistaniMistress]

I'm currently working on an a posteriori language in it's early stages. It's a fictional language called Western European, a descendant of English in the 24th century spoken in modern day Netherlands, Belgium, France, Spain, Portugal, and border areas.

[Collin152]

How does one go about creating languages?

Well, you need three things:
An Alphabet
A Grammar System
Vocabulary

Now, Alphabet includes both the characters themselves and their pronunciation- There are many sounds that don't appear in English, you know. Even so, this is the easiest step.
My language, Tandanmo, has a fairly simple alphabet inspired by the Japanese, except for the consonant clusters. And with two more vowels.

Grammar is hard, takes a lot of planning and thought, and is really what sets the language apart. Mine isn't done yet, but, due to my familiarity with Japanese, will probably have aspects of that mixed with some English concepts, plus some other things.

Vocabulary, now, that's just time consuming, but fairly straightfoward.

[Dragonrider]

I've gone over and over mine...the first one was really clumsy and pseudo-Tolkien with no grammar whatsoever, but through learning some Farsi and Spanish, I've kind of gotten a look at very different kinds of languages. So I have three now. It's fun.

[VistaniMistress]

Well, you need three things:
An Alphabet
A Grammar System
Vocabulary

I disagree, but only slightly.

You need a phonology (System of sounds), you can create an ortography for this (System of representing those sounds in a visual medium, could be an alphabet.), but phonology should come before ortography, not after.

Otherwise, I agree with you, if you're going a priori (From scratch, basically).

If you're going A Posteriori (Heavily based on a pre-existing language, most often meant to refer to fictional descendants.), it's a different process, though.

[Dragonrider]

Collin, www.zompist.com has some really good resources on how to create conlangs.

[Collin152]

Collin, www.zompist.com has some really good resources on how to create conlangs.

Been there, saved copies of that.
See, I'm working off my laptop, which for whatever reason can't access the wifi here. Something about needing a WEP key when we encrypt with WPA or something. So I find resources, save copies to a thumb drive, and keep them there when I work. There's just no atmosphere for creation at my desktop, see...

Also, Dragonrider, I really like that first language's script, what's it called, Meroned? It's so... flowy. I'm still... refining the look of my characters, see. I'm trying to hammer out some grammar first.
Heh. Hammer grammar.

[Moff Chumley]

We should make up a forum language...

[Sneak]

We should make up a forum language...

I totally simued that ebil three-post-rule-breaker on his AFONAL day.

[Dragonrider]

Also, Dragonrider, I really like that first language's script, what's it called, Meroned? It's so... flowy. I'm still... refining the look of my characters, see. I'm trying to hammer out some grammar first.
Heh. Hammer grammar.

Thanks. :smallbiggrin: I did it in Inkscape with the calligraphy brush....

[Copacetic]

Hmm. Now I'm tempted to go and create a anguage, but I know I'll never get it finished. woould also like to second the creation of a Playgrond Language, though that also would be a monumental task due to the sheer mass of people with different ideas.

[Dragonrider]

Ahh, but we already have a Playground language. It's known as Geekspeak. :smallbiggrin:

[Collin152]

Oh, a playground language? All we have to do is agree on which language to adopt. It'd be a simple matter, we just need a few complete languages assembled and proposed, and then a massive vote.

Course, we'd never be permitted to use it, except in perhaps SMBG.
*Chaman, chaman...


* "That's no good..."

[BisectedBrioche]

I've actually thought about creating a language myself. I've had an idea of it involving putting words together using others (maybe replacing adverbs, or pronouns and other words which change the meanings of other words with a prefix or suffix).

Maybe I'll look at some languages I like the sound of (literally :smallamused:), borrow their sounds and try to create the ultimate nice and horrible sounding languages...like Tolkien!

[xyzzy]

Ahh, but we already have a Playground language. It's known as Geekspeak. TVTropes :smallbiggrin:

I fixed it for you.

Also, I've tried doing this but repeatedly get bored almost immediately.

[adanedhel9]

I've played around with conlanging a little bit. I usually start with a few key words that jump from nowhere, then do a phonology (and script if appropriate) to match. Then I usually lose interest after a few minutes of vocabulary and grammar.

Most of my work is for games that I run, and since I've been using the same campaign world for the past six years, I haven't had a good impetus to start on anything new. But once my current campaign ends, the world is going on the shelves, and I'll be thinking more about fictional languages.

[Collin152]

I hear a lot of talk of losing interest. Today alone I wrote up 250+ nouns. Is that a good measure of dedication? My first day I only got about 30 words.

[amuletts]

Oh you are so lucky to be good at languages. If I invented one I could be sure the only person not to understand it would be me.

[Dragonrider]

All three of my languages have a vocabulary of roughly 1250 words. A lot of rules, a different phonology for each, different scripts (though Korbeth and Meroned use a very similar one, just stylistically different), different mythologies.

:smallsigh: No doubt I've wasted considerable hours.

Ha.

[rubakhin]

I once tried to create some kind of North Caucasian or Kartvelian conlang for something I was working on. I wanted to write a screenplay about the war, but I wanted to do it in English, and nobody in America has heard of Chechnya so I decided to come up with a generic post-Soviet warzone. I figured if I had a conlang I could put together a few phrases just to add color. (Actually it was mostly just for the fun of it. Also because nobody in the world speaks Chechen and I would look amazingly original if I just took Chechen and messed around with it a bit. Hooray for things that make me look impressive but do not require actual effort!) That didn't last too long. Caucasic languages are TERRIBLE. They have more consonants than your mom.

Also, Dragonrider: For some reason I thought the middle language was Mongolian. Or classic Mongolian, or something. I wonder how wide-spread the Mongolian script is used these days, I know nowadays the language is written in Cyrillic.

[Assassin89]

I created Esperanto.

Word. :smalltongue:

Lies, Esperanto was not created by you, Sneak. It was created by L. L. Zamenhof (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Esperanto)

As for creating a language, it could take years before it is fully developed.

[BisectedBrioche]

I wonder if its possible to have a language where all of its words follow a basic pattern which develops from grammar and a few basic words. That way you wouldn't have to invent an entire vocabulary.

Also, am I the only one who thinks L. L. Zamenhof sounds like the name you would give to some sort of wizard-turned-rapper?

[Collin152]

I wonder if its possible to have a language where all of its words follow a basic pattern which develops from grammar and a few basic words. That way you wouldn't have to invent an entire vocabulary.

You mean like, what, the perfect Latin-based language, where all words are just formulaic modifications of Latin roots?

[VistaniMistress]

I wonder if its possible to have a language where all of its words follow a basic pattern which develops from grammar and a few basic words. That way you wouldn't have to invent an entire vocabulary.

It's called Toki Pona, and a very difficult language, I don't believe anyone ever achieved fluency in it.

[BisectedBrioche]

You mean like, what, the perfect Latin-based language, where all words are just formulaic modifications of Latin roots?

Even more so, where only a few words are needed. Maybe even to the point where its mostly based on context and doesn't need a fixed dictionary at all.

[Collin152]

Even more so, where only a few words are needed. Maybe even to the point where its mostly based on context and doesn't need a fixed dictionary at all.

Oh, so kinda like Leifenish?
"Lupa, lupa lupa lupa?"

[BisectedBrioche]

It's called Toki Pona, and a very difficult language, I don't believe anyone ever achieved fluency in it.

According to Wikipedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Toki_Pona) its quite simple, just not widely spoken.


Oh, so kinda like Leifenish?
"Lupa, lupa lupa lupa?"

No, Leifenish was based on tone. Some languages, like Tai, do actually use it (tone that is, not Leifenish).

[VistaniMistress]

According to Wikipedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Toki_Pona) its quite simple, just not widely spoken.

The basics are simple, and basic conversations are.

But more advanced discussions, like we're having right now, are very hard. Mostly because it's very difficult to determine how you should build a certain concept.

If I wish to talk about, say, hellfire, I'd have to use something akin to all-evil-dead-people-place-fire.

Try to come up with a way to invent new concepts in an understandable way, without using idioms, on the fly.

[BisectedBrioche]

Well that is more of a lesser-work-way of the word-collection. Not to say the reason for it (according to the wikipedia article its supposed to make you think).

Besides, when you've worked out how to build up a word once then you can keep using that word again and again. It basically allows you to spontaneously build up your vocabulary.

[The Extinguisher]

Lies, Esperanto was not created by you, Sneak. It was created by L. L. Zamenhof (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Esperanto)


Maybe Sneak is L. L. Zamenhof. Ever think about that?

I created a language. Only I got bored half-way through, so it uses the same alphabet as english, the same vocabulary, sounds and grammar too. The only difference is it's in italics and the first sentence spoken in any context always has an asterisk at the end of it.

See, it's fairly simple to learn.*

[VistaniMistress]

Well that is more of a lesser-work-way of the word-collection. Not to say the reason for it (according to the wikipedia article its supposed to make you think).

Besides, when you've worked out how to build up a word once then you can keep using that word again and again. It basically allows you to spontaneously build up your vocabulary.

Which will end up in really long unworkable words.

The Toki Pona for hellfire is, basically. "Ale Moni Jan Pana Seli" in the appropriate order with grammar and correct order added in. And, basically, all words are like that.

...

Maybe we have some sort of Entish style language here.

*might need to joink Toki Pona's word list for a language*

[BisectedBrioche]

Maybe Sneak is L. L. Zamenhof. Ever think about that?

I created a language. Only I got bored half-way through, so it uses the same alphabet as english, the same vocabulary, sounds and grammar too. The only difference is it's in italics and the first sentence spoken in any context always has an asterisk at the end of it.

See, it's fairly simple to learn.*

Et tu ne parler pas l'anglais?

[The Extinguisher]

Et tu ne parler pas l'anglais?

Too bad... I suppose.

Also, I believe that should Et que faire si vous ne parlez pas l'anglais

But I'm not to sure if you should use vous or tu here.

[BisectedBrioche]

For a method of making a language I was thinking along the lines of;


Getting a list of simple vocal sounds (basically, as long as they're one syllable) you like together and picking about 15-25 of the simplest ones.
Creating symbols/runes/etc for each sound (thus sorting out the alphabet). Remember that sounds really do have a "shape", so keep that in mind when designing symbols.
Decide on grammar. This means you'll have to work out how your language is going to use (or not) the various Lexical Categories (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lexical_category).
Use whatever method you want to come up with the vocabulary.



Too bad... I suppose.

Also, I believe that should Et que faire si vous ne parlez pas l'anglais

But I'm not to sure if you should use vous or tu here.

Tu, I think vous is the pluralar form of the two (I could be wrong, secondary school was years ago).

[Dragonrider]

The trouble with creating a language so formulaic is that it probably wouldn't evolve naturally. I agree with George Orwell that part of the beauty of English is its unpredictableness.

Also I think that part of the fun of conlanging is working in those little inconsistencies and snares, giggling maniacally at the thought that if anyone ever tries to learn the language, they'll be beating their head against the wall when they get to that word.

Ha ha ha.

:smallbiggrin: :smallamused:

Edit: because I was bored: A handwritten sample of Meroned.

http://i156.photobucket.com/albums/t3/soggypoptart/100_5167.jpg

[Collin152]

The trouble with creating a language so formulaic is that it probably wouldn't evolve naturally. I agree with George Orwell that part of the beauty of English is its unpredictableness.

Also I think that part of the fun of conlanging is working in those little inconsistencies and snares, giggling maniacally at the thought that if anyone ever tries to learn the language, they'll be beating their head against the wall when they get to that word.

Ha ha ha.

:smallbiggrin: :smallamused:

Edit: because I was bored: A handwritten sample of Meroned.

http://i156.photobucket.com/albums/t3/soggypoptart/100_5167.jpg

Wow, wow, it's a lovely script, but I'd be bashing my head into a wall trying to learn it. Even the right to left thing...
See, with Japanese, It's good old left to right, except when it goes up to down, in which case it flows from right to left. Either way, it feels natural. But this direct right to left nonsense? Painful enough without cursive style writin'!
So my alphabet's characters, in a fashion vaguley similar to Japanese and Chinese characters, are nicely seperated, and each posess a single distinct sound; the language is designed for clarity, precision, and logic- for the most part. I still try and throw in some naturalisticness here and there.
After all, my idea for the language is basically the English parallel of nearby dimensions. It's not really anything like English, but it's used in the same capacity, you kow? Language of commerce and imperialism diplomacy.

[Dallas-Dakota]

I'm currently working on an a posteriori language in it's early stages. It's a fictional language called Western European, a descendant of English in the 24th century spoken in modern day Netherlands, Belgium, France, Spain, Portugal, and border areas.
We'l never give up our dutch language!


Also, languages are a really, really funky area in my brains.

[Recaiden]

I've tried to make a constructed language. Haven't gotten very far though.

[Dragonrider]

I kind of modeled it after Arabic.

Figured I'd go for something a little different. :smallamused:

[KerfuffleMach2]

Awesome. I'm not the only one who's done this.

Anyway, me and a buddy are working on a major story that starts in present time and ends hundreds of years in the future. Most of it will take place in the future. And this future world will have one language.

We haven't made a name for the language. Since everybody speaks it, it doesn't need a name. Guess it'll be called Wen Rateh, since that'll be the new name for the world.

Anywho, it's mostly based off of English. I'll work on a visual aid for it and get it up here for you guys to see.

[xanaphia]

I made a language once. English vocabulary, suffix grammar. IT was fun. LAter I might post how it works.

[Felixaar]

Hmm, I guess techincally endar is a constructed language, though it's nearly as complete or thought out as the others mentioned.

The words have meanings, though, so thats a start.

[Dragonrider]

We haven't made a name for the language. Since everybody speaks it, it doesn't need a name. Guess it'll be called Wen Rateh, since that'll be the new name for the world.

Backwards that's Hetar New. Or New Hater. :smalltongue:

[Moff Chumley]

Okay, here's my idea for a a language:
Grammar is similar to Latin: parts of the nouns determine case and gender, and parts of the verb determine person, tense, and number. To Be, and similar verbs, are going to be represented by symbols.
Vocabulary is going to be drawn from, let's say, greek, and japanese.
This is my first conlang, so let's use english characters.

I'll get started on that now, and post my progress in a while.

[Collin152]

Ooh, must remain focused. Can't let myself start another language till this one is completish. Just got too many ideas, but I probably won't even use those other ones!

I seem to be borrowing a lot of Japanese grammar. But retaining a good deal of English, too. My language can now turn an adjective into a noun, and a noun into an adjective. Verbs can be modified for tense and positive/negative status. I've begun refining and simplyfying my alphabet, and plan to get a digital spread of the thing posted here for y'all to see.

[Maroon]

As a thought experiment, I've been imagining an alien language that's unpronounceable by humans. I'm going to work from the ground up and start with animal noises, assigning each a particular emotion it conveys, like irritation, excitement, anger or confusion, and have it evolve from there into some sort of Newspeak using inflection and intonation. After that I'll probably construct some sort of phonetic alphabet (which'll probably resemble musical notation more than anything else the way it's going) and start expanding the vocabulary.

Meroned looks cool, though I wouldn't be able to write it. It's a bit too flourishy for my ingrained muscle memory. Perhaps a block letter version for us uneducated peasants?

[Dragonrider]

It's a lot less so when it's broken down into individual letters.... (http://annuvar.blogspot.com/2009/01/meroned-script.html)

But the Korbeth script is actually almost exactly the same, just written in a more blocky style. The far left script and the far right in my sig are the same letters - just a different style of forming them. And, of course, some represent different sounds, because (similar to Arabic vs. Farsi) Korbeth and Meroned are distinct from each other and, though they use the same writing system, there are sounds in each that don't exist in the other.

[randman22222]

I kind of modeled it after Arabic.

Figured I'd go for something a little different. :smallamused:

Heh, I thought it seemed similar.

Anywho, the only fake language I've made was to take a Germanic runic alphabet, modify it a bit, and then make up a few names. Never got into grammatical details or even translated more than twenty words. :smallconfused:

@^: Just a thought: have you read the Dune series? :smallconfused:

[Dragonrider]

Heh, I thought it seemed similar.

Yeah...I learned quite a bit of Farsi a couple years ago, and it uses Arabic writing (though it has its own numerals) so it had a pretty heavy influence of some of the stuff I did. I didn't want an English look-alike and I wanted to write from right to left. Like Leonardo DaVinci, I'm left-handed and I like to write English backwards sometimes anyway...so right-to-left is actually easier for me.


@^: Just a thought: have you read the Dune series? :smallconfused:

Just DUNE itself, none of the sequels. My mom's read them all and she said none of the rest were as good as the original, and since I really enjoyed the first one I didn't want to spoil it for myself.

Why? :smalltongue:

[Starshade]

Hah, you break the common myth only teenaged male geeks without GF ever care for Conlanging. :smallbiggrin:

Ive thought about doing some experiments myself, latest thing ive thought of, is a language made without organic influence, evolved from semi sentience basic concepts to sentient language for self aware intelligence, like ape -> humans, just. i dont think of organic life.

I thought of Berserker drones, self replicating automata(self replicating robotic drones, a race of machines). Hm, i think first stop is to learn some lojban to figure out how a totally logical language system work, study the exellent link i found here, and, try to figure out how it would sound like. I imagine it would end up somehow like a language for mechanical ents, imho. :smallamused:
Reason for making it? for fun, while fiddling with a scifi story where it fits in.

An other think i MIGHT be tempted, is to hack out a small Elfish language for an D&D world, too many of them got cluttered, clumsy "language" pieces i think lack depht.

PS: Dune is ok. Other series, as RAMA By C S Clarke i might advice you to read first only, but those ive read of Dune is ok, only read 2-3 further from the first, not all of them. Its a bit like discussing if its worth reading the New Jedi Order, isnt it? is the bad worth the good side of, actually reading about the heroes you liked from fist books? :smallamused:
Hm, for Dune.. Think i need to track down a copy of the missing books myself, so i cant say for the last ones. But first one is definitively best.

[Dragonrider]

Starshade: I LIVE to break stereotypes. I revel in the deed. :smallbiggrin:


On New Jedi Order: I like Michael J. Stackpole. I like a LOT of the authors who write them, as a matter of fact. But. I. Hate. The Story. My favorites were those two books about Anakin and Tahiri. And then they KILLED HIM OFF. I never felt so cheated! :smalltongue: And, admittedly, I was twelve when I was reading it...but yet....

Just had to get that off my chest. :smallamused:

[Moff Chumley]

I wish I could break more stereotypes. But no matter what I do, people aren't surprised... Horrified, yes, but such is the life of a musician. :smallamused:

[VistaniMistress]

Hah, you break the common myth only teenaged male geeks without GF ever care for Conlanging. :smallbiggrin:
How about the most famous conlanger ever? J.R.R. Tolkien made the world for his languages, not the languages for his world after all.

Quenya and Sindarin where created in Tolkien's search for the most beautifl language.

Sample sentences in Western Europese.

"Dairs neffin laik dairs conlennin."

"De entekrils ef de formiulais eff apo eks es eks plis dris es de formiulais eff eks es wunalf eks skwart plis dris eks plis sei."

"Bapils de sours de lenkwuatschisar, baibils sed."

"Aim speek Westin Youropesis."

[Collin152]

Ooh, sample sentences. Well, without my notes on me, all I can muster up at the moment is "Kwo Nerai Therkla?" which means, "What is your name?"

[Zeful]

I knew I guy that created three separate English cyphers (he hadn't the time to go into grammar). From which my user name derives, which is my real name under the cypher. I tried my hand at it later but wasn't really good at it.

[randman22222]

Yeah...I learned quite a bit of Farsi a couple years ago, and it uses Arabic writing (though it has its own numerals) so it had a pretty heavy influence of some of the stuff I did. I didn't want an English look-alike and I wanted to write from right to left. Like Leonardo DaVinci, I'm left-handed and I like to write English backwards sometimes anyway...so right-to-left is actually easier for me.

Just DUNE itself, none of the sequels. My mom's read them all and she said none of the rest were as good as the original, and since I really enjoyed the first one I didn't want to spoil it for myself.

Why? :smalltongue:

Oh, the last two books get better, but at the same time, verrrrry Freudian. Not like the first one, though. I was just wondering, because I've developed a bit of a fascination of romanticised Arab culture. Unfortunately, there's not much of it left here. :smallsigh:

That's really cool that you learned Farsi... I wanted to learn Arabic here, but my schedule wouldn't allow it. :smallfrown:
And now that I'll be off to college, I've really not much of a chance to learn it, given that I'll be focusing on German during college.
Maybe another time. :smallconfused:

Anywho, how's the grammar work in the Farsi-esque language? :smallconfused:

EDIT: I don't break or follow stereotypes. I aim for nothing except for simply how I want to act. I suppose if I didn't take moderation in moderation, I could be Buddhist.
EDIT2: I swear I've mentioned this on these boards before. I hate having such a bad episodic memory. :smallsigh:

[Dragonrider]

Sample Meron:

“Babrozh rob antizho diatgol pryu.”
(Sitting on cats doesn't pay)
A proverb about not bothering someone who's in a bad mood.

I've also made up a bunch of semi-dirty euphemisms, such as "hattysyt" (whore or, literally, castcake), "zhepafeyr baba" (bastard - fool's fruit).

:smallbiggrin:

Randman: I have to go to school in three minutes, but the short version is that Farsi has wormed its way into...well, mostly Meroned and Korbeth. Korbeth has the Farsi grammar structure (SOV, or subject-object-verb), while Meroned is SVO like English but, like Farsi, has no articles.

Another oddity of Farsi that I've yet to incorporate into anything is that there's no masculine or feminine. At all. I mean, there are different words for "girl" and "boy", but there's no "him" or "her". None of my languages have that feature, but if I make up another one, I'll probably do it sheerly because it makes things different. You know? It's unusual.