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Gaire
2009-01-25, 12:23 PM
So I was thinking the other day about the Tarrasque, when it struck me- where the heck does a creature like the Tarrasque come from? I mean, it can't reproduce sexually and there's no proof of asexual reproduction. Is the Tarrasque a super-powerful mutant from one of the monstrous species? Is it some sort of hold-over from when the gods created the world?

Obviously, it's just there to serve as an end boss for DnD, but it still makes me wonder.

Shpadoinkle
2009-01-25, 12:33 PM
One theory I've heard is that it was created by mind flayers to be used as a biological weapon (I THINK this is canon, but I'm not 100% sure). Another is that it was created by the gods to punish the world for something or other

Eldariel
2009-01-25, 12:34 PM
Well, MM states it's percieved as a divine punishment of sorts, so a creation of divinities...like everything else in D&D. It seems much like the Abominations presented in Epic Level Handbook: leftovers from the Beginning that failed to gain a real form but refused to die away.

Flickerdart
2009-01-25, 12:46 PM
Except there's a whole planet of them somewhere in Spelljammer, so the one on the home planet is just an alien that happened to land there.

kamuishirou
2009-01-25, 12:46 PM
I think of it like The Snarl :). An ancient being of destruction that was created before the world began and has just been sleeping away until something or someone walks it up.

hamishspence
2009-01-25, 12:56 PM
Most abominations in 3.5 were the unwanted offspring of deities. Exceptions- the anaxims which were more Failed Creations than actual offspring, and the Marruspawn abomination- created by the mortal Marru, incorporating a bit of divine blood in one of their bred creatures.

in 4th ed, they became creations of the primordials and the deities- the war weapons of both sides, and the Tarrasque was included in their number- a Primordial creation.

Llama231
2009-01-25, 01:03 PM
Let me be the first to say SPAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAACE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
la li lu le lo
O.K., I consider it a natural force type thin, or an accindent.
It seems to have the same purpose as Godzilla.

The Demented One
2009-01-25, 01:23 PM
Except there's a whole planet of them somewhere in Spelljammer, so the one on the home planet is just an alien that happened to land there.
Mein Gott...in that case, it's inevitable.

Ladies and Gentlemen, I give you the Tarrasque vs. Black Hole Squid (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=75454) no holds barred grudge match. Place your bets.

Eldariel
2009-01-25, 01:39 PM
Well, if Black Hole Squid somehow ends up engaging the Tarrasque, the Tarrasque is better in straight-out fighting and wins the grapple match on its immense BAB and HP advantage, along with faster healing (both ignore each others' DR). The Tarrasque also has the advantage of being immortal. So if the Squid decides to foolishly fight the Tarrasque, it loses. It could try to batter the Tarrasque with Singularity, but it cannot really deal enough damage to bypass The Tarrasque's Regeneration with it. That said, The Tarrasque will be failing those checks aplenty and by lots; it has mere +17 Str. However, using it once draws the Tarrasque to the Black Hole Squid allowing Tarr to rip the Squid apart. So, due to its superior wrestling skills, the Tarrasque wins.

Gaire
2009-01-25, 01:40 PM
Black Hole Squid. It can swallow the Tarrasque whole, while the Tarrasque can't swallow the Squid

vegetalss4
2009-01-25, 02:23 PM
the Tarrasque on acount of the squid being unable to kill it. and that its minimum damage are less than T's regeneration. meaning that sooner or late big T will be able to attack it for enough rounds to kill it. mind you this would be a very drawn out battle, but sooner or later big T would win.

Eldariel
2009-01-25, 03:26 PM
Black Hole Squid. It can swallow the Tarrasque whole, while the Tarrasque can't swallow the Squid

Swallowing whole requires a successful Grapple-check, something the Squid won't be doing.

EDIT: 64 vs. 81, meaning that the Squid has to roll 19 or 20 vs. T's 1 to succeed. It won't have the rounds, I'd wager, especially if Big T pins it. Also, Big T can Power Attack for 20 and still autohit meaning that the non-grappling battle is also pretty bad for the Squid. And if it ends up inside, it can PA for 40 to break out automatically each round, only needing to make the DC 30 Str-check which is quite easy for it; mere 13 required, so 40% chances.

Gaire
2009-01-25, 03:45 PM
Swallowing whole requires a successful Grapple-check, something the Squid won't be doing.

EDIT: 64 vs. 81, meaning that the Squid has to roll 19 or 20 vs. T's 1 to succeed. It won't have the rounds, I'd wager, especially if Big T pins it. Also, Big T can Power Attack for 20 and still autohit meaning that the non-grappling battle is also pretty bad for the Squid. And if it ends up inside, it can PA for 40 to break out automatically each round, only needing to make the DC 30 Str-check which is quite easy for it; mere 13 required, so 40% chances.

Very true. Sorry, I didn't measure the stats against each other well enough.

Of course, we have to consider where they're fighting. There's no battleground that's fair for both of them. On land, T has a major advantage because he's going against a squid- given, a squid that spends most of its time in space, but a squid all the same. On or underwater or in space, the squid has the advantage, because T has to breathe.

vegetalss4
2009-01-25, 03:48 PM
we could place them in the arstral plane.
solid enough to be walked through. liguid enough to be swammed through.

Innis Cabal
2009-01-25, 03:49 PM
Its not canon that it was made by the Mind Flayers. As stated, there is a whole planet of them in spell jammer.

Another theory is they were made by the Princes of Elemental Evil. Which has been supported in some places

Athaniar
2009-01-25, 03:54 PM
Isn't 4e Tarrasque a Primordial?

Gaire
2009-01-25, 04:07 PM
4e Tarrasque is a primordial who CAN'T be killed, he just goes back to the center of the earth for X years. 3.5 Tarrasque can be killed, it's just one of the hardest things to do. Which brings up the point that, no matter which version of Tarrasque we use, unless the Squid has help from a caster, he can't kill Tarrasque.

Eldariel
2009-01-25, 04:25 PM
Can't be killed by Mortals anyways. All you need to do is to ascend to divinity (which seems to be about as hard as getting your Ph.D. in FR) and you can make it go away.

Artanis
2009-01-25, 04:54 PM
I think that if the Tarrasque fights a Black Hole Squid, then no matter who wins, we all lose :smalltongue:

bosssmiley
2009-01-25, 04:58 PM
So I was thinking the other day about the Tarrasque, when it struck me- where the heck does a creature like the Tarrasque come from? I mean, it can't reproduce sexually and there's no proof of asexual reproduction. Is the Tarrasque a super-powerful mutant from one of the monstrous species? Is it some sort of hold-over from when the gods created the world?

I think that's a matter of Canon Doubt and Uncertainty (http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/ShrugOfGod).


Obviously, it's just there to serve as an end boss for DnD, but it still makes me wonder.

Nah, the Tarrasque is just a natural disaster with HD and a CR. The various demon lords and godlings are the final bosses of D&D. You gank Orcus, claim the skull wand, and ascend to your throne in the Abyss as the new CEO of Orcus Inc. (it's the METAL! thing to do). :smallwink:

Starbuck_II
2009-01-25, 04:59 PM
I think that if the Tarrasque fights a Black Hole Squid, then no matter who wins, we all lose :smalltongue:
I see what you did there.

But if Tarres fights one he acts like Godzilla in a way: sure he cause death and destruction, but we need him.
Without him, he represents our heart. We may forget it is there, but you can't live without it.
:smallbiggrin:

herrhauptmann
2009-01-25, 05:00 PM
I wish I could quote which adventure module it was in, but a friend from work was telling me about an adventure he played:
In the dawn of time, there were 2 tarrasques, a male and a female, and together they were more powerful than any of the gods. (Each had 20+ class levels in addition to the stats given in the Monster Manual).
In a daring plan, the gods were able to temporarily separate the two, and in that brief instance they lobotomized the male tarrasque (who was a little weaker than the female), turning him into the mindless engine of distraction we all know and love.
While the female was still as intelligent and powerful as ever, she was now essentially alone, and the gods managed to lock her in pocket demiplane.
*****************************
Now, what makes this adventure so interesting, my friend told me they eventually came to a fork in the road. Down one path, they would enter the demiplane of the female tarrasque (who had 20 levels of Cleric), in the other, they would pass through a city of liches and demi-liches, ruled by deathknights. They chose the city.

TheCountAlucard
2009-01-25, 11:15 PM
It's obvious...

A Wizard did it.

Assassin89
2009-01-25, 11:21 PM
It's obvious...

A Wizard did it.

Isn't that the same reason for the existence of the Owlbear, the Penguinlion, the ducksnake, the Bunnywolf or the quailtiger?

TheCountAlucard
2009-01-25, 11:39 PM
Don't forget the Squidshark...

Gaire
2009-01-26, 01:30 AM
Even the most powerful, most diabolical evil god isn't as much a threat to the peace as a bored wizard.

MCerberus
2009-01-26, 01:42 AM
Even the most powerful, most diabolical evil god isn't as much a threat to the peace as a bored wizard.

Why are the two mutually exclusive?

One day Vecna was bored. He created something "quaint" and put it in a cave with an alarm clock it can't shut off. Oops forgot to feed it! Most scholars agree that this was a "D move".

Ganurath
2009-01-26, 03:26 AM
I personally theorize that the Tarrasque is the equivolent of the Six in Shadow from among the ranks of Tharizdun's followers. The only reason it survived was because they Six didn't know what they need to do to keep it dead, so just moved on after violencing it to hibernation mode.

Heliomance
2009-01-26, 06:25 AM
I was under the impression that no-one - not even the gods - were quite sure where it came from. Apparently the 2nd ed Tarrasque was even gnarlier, to the point where it made the gods slightly nervous. The 3.5 Tarrasque is quite easy to deal with - Charm Monster will do it. One guy I know theorises that the Lady of Pain might have had something to do with it, possibly.

BobVosh
2009-01-26, 06:48 AM
I wish I could quote which adventure module it was in, but a friend from work was telling me about an adventure he played:
In the dawn of time, there were 2 tarrasques, a male and a female, and together they were more powerful than any of the gods. (Each had 20+ class levels in addition to the stats given in the Monster Manual).
In a daring plan, the gods were able to temporarily separate the two, and in that brief instance they lobotomized the male tarrasque (who was a little weaker than the female), turning him into the mindless engine of distraction we all know and love.
While the female was still as intelligent and powerful as ever, she was now essentially alone, and the gods managed to lock her in pocket demiplane.
*****************************
Now, what makes this adventure so interesting, my friend told me they eventually came to a fork in the road. Down one path, they would enter the demiplane of the female tarrasque (who had 20 levels of Cleric), in the other, they would pass through a city of liches and demi-liches, ruled by deathknights. They chose the city.

That is kinda neat actually. Although...if the gods feared them, who were they clerics to?

Talic
2009-01-26, 06:59 AM
That is kinda neat actually. Although...if the gods feared them, who were they clerics to?

The answer is obviously...

Chuck Norris.

BobVosh
2009-01-26, 07:07 AM
The answer is obviously...

Chuck Norris.

Great flavor for a god, but his domains suck. Strength, destruction, beard and roundhouse kick? I can't even find the spells for those last two.

Although congrats to him wrestling bread from Moradin.

mikeejimbo
2009-01-26, 07:16 AM
The Tarrasque is clearly a giant kitten.

Gaire
2009-01-26, 02:59 PM
The Tarrasque is a cleric to ITSELF.

Telonius
2009-01-26, 03:48 PM
The Tarrasque is clearly a giant kitten.

Seconded. Indestructible, spends most of its life asleep, deadly to D&D minis... yep. Some Wizard did an experiment on his cat, and Big T was what resulted.

TheCountAlucard
2009-01-26, 03:49 PM
Although congrats to him wrestling bread from Moradin.

Now THERE's an image! :smalltongue:

I take it you meant "beard," right?

Overlord Nicy
2009-01-26, 06:11 PM
Tarrasque and Squid join together to become superhero fighting force of justice. Obviously.

Heliomance
2009-01-27, 02:30 AM
No, no. One, an indestructible killing machine that lives to eat. One, a sea-bound cephalopod with tentacles. They Fight Crime! (http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/TheyFightCrime)

Khanderas
2009-01-27, 03:20 AM
When I read about it the first time, it was described as "a punishment of a now forgotten god" and I found it to my liking.

Makes me sad when level 10 characters go around and kill him. All but swore if I was DM'ing and this guy was involved he would be unkillable. Perhaps not unstoppable, but certainly whatever they did, he would be back a few months later, like Sin (Final fantasy X) or a lich (Error 404:phylactry not found). Best tactic would be distracting it towards less settled areas and saving intelligent life about to be rampaged upon.

I like the idea there is something that is not killable by mortal hands, that it sleeps for years and rampages for months lets a DM use it or ignore it as fitting. I think there should be something the PC's cannot dispose of at will. Everyone else disagrees :smallamused:.

Deth Muncher
2009-01-27, 03:21 AM
No, no. One, an indestructible killing machine that lives to eat. One, a sea-bound cephalopod with tentacles. They Fight Crime! (http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/TheyFightCrime)

You know, I tried citing that trope IRL. All it got me was a bunch of confused looks.

Sebastian
2009-01-27, 06:08 PM
The Tarrasque is a test. If your civilization is able to resist its rampage without being wiped out or it is even able to kill it then it means you are ready.

I am not totally sure ready for what, tho. Maybe you gain access to new powerful levels of magic, maybe a powerful warrior race in search of a challenge see you as a worthy adversary and begin an invasion. Either way the defeat of the tarrasque could be an great introduction to a epic level campaign.

Tacoma
2009-01-27, 06:45 PM
Black hole squid
Look what you did
You put on all the pain
Black hole squid
Look what you did
Look what you did

I think the spelljammer Tarrasque answer is the best one. Maybe when the gods of the FR crystal sphere found one they used it for their own purposes.

Keld Denar
2009-01-27, 07:02 PM
I believe it was Tshern over on the CharOps boards that redid the Tarrasque's feats, then sent it against a highly opitimized party. Apparently, the party got slaughtered. He gave the Tarrasque feats like Shape Soulmeld, Martial Study and Martial Stance. Oh, and Mage Slayer and friends, for extra goodness.

Molant
2009-01-27, 07:34 PM
I wish that thing was on the moon/in space/in the planet core/in the middle of freaking SUN!

Problem solved.

Ascension
2009-01-27, 09:08 PM
I believe it was Tshern over on the CharOps boards that redid the Tarrasque's feats, then sent it against a highly opitimized party. Apparently, the party got slaughtered. He gave the Tarrasque feats like Shape Soulmeld, Martial Study and Martial Stance. Oh, and Mage Slayer and friends, for extra goodness.

I seem to remember a flying, teleporting, spiked-chain-wielding, martial adept Tarrasque... and a picture of same. Truly frightening.


I wish that thing was on the moon/in space/in the planet core/in the middle of freaking SUN!

Problem solved.

I'm sorry, which crystalline sphere was that you wanted him embedded in?

It really bugs me when people expect D&D characters to understand space. Besides, Wish does actually have limits...

theMycon
2009-01-27, 10:34 PM
Black hole squid
Look what you did
You put on all the pain
Black hole squid
Look what you did
Look what you did


That you go perfectly to the tune of "Black Hole Sun" if I could find a way to pronounce "squid" as a long syllable*. I can clearly tell what you're trying to do, and the lyrics are at least as sensible as the original. Also, it produced a slight chuckle. However, all those years of Latin (And mother loving Virgil...) in Highschool left me with a sensitivity to when people try to fiddle with dactyls to make them rhyme, and end up with a tiny scansion error.

I give it a B+. In other words, much better than I could do.

*One where the vowel (or pseudo-vowels, like R & L) are the overbearing sound.

chiasaur11
2009-01-27, 11:08 PM
The Tarrasque is a test. If your civilization is able to resist its rampage without being wiped out or it is even able to kill it then it means you are ready.

I am not totally sure ready for what, tho. Maybe you gain access to new powerful levels of magic, maybe a powerful warrior race in search of a challenge see you as a worthy adversary and begin an invasion. Either way the defeat of the tarrasque could be an great introduction to a epic level campaign.

No. It's...

A NEW CAR!

Big T is a gameshow that got a bit out of hand. He's a beloved television mascot on his home plane. He even has a theme park.

Callos_DeTerran
2009-01-28, 08:59 AM
If you want to try and find a close-to-an-answer-but-not-one then look at the Ecology of the Tarrasque in the last issue of Dragon magazine. Every planet has a Big T, but I neither have the article in front of me nor remember what vague hint they alluded to why it/they exist. Might want to check there for a non-humor reason for it existing. One thing IS certain though. A wizard didn't do it.