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-Baldur-
2009-01-25, 08:14 PM
So, I've only played D and D maybe....twice, three times max, and I mean sessions not campaigns. So forgive me if this is a little below par for a first design, but I am more interested in designing characters than playing them, so maybe someone could play test it and let me know how it goes.

I wanted to build an ability heavy class that doesn't rely on spells per day or extreme combat ability per se. A class that could dish out damage but harvest the results of his and others damage around him. Neutral characters are best suited to this class, as Death is not evil nor good, and takes only those whose time it is. Disciples emulate this in life, if a dying animal is seen on the side of the road, the Disciple would typically leave that animal, for if it is that creatures time, then so it is.

Anyway, without further adu:

Disciple of the Reaper

"You think you know...about death? Have you ever looked deep into the darkest pit and made friends with it's residents? You know nothing."

-DotR to Dread Necromancer

Class Abilities per level.

The DotR can use all simple weapons, as well as the scythe, the DotR acts as if he had Greater Weapon Focus with a Scythe.

The DotR is proficient with Light Armour only. Medium armour can be worn at a 30% Deaths Touch failure rate, and his abilities only work 50% of the time.

Fortitude- Average, Reflex- Poor, Will-Good.

Disciple of the Reaper

{table=head]Level|Base Attack Bonus|Fort Save|Ref Save|Will Save|Special

1st|
+0|
+x|
+x|
+x|Deaths Touch (1d6) - Borrow from death (1/day, Spell)

2nd|
+1|
+x|
+x|
+x|Black Aura - Scythe Specialist (+1d6 to Scythe damage, +2 to hit)

3rd|
+2|
+x|
+x|
+x|Deaths Touch (2d6) - Modify Touch (Range, Area of Effect)

4th|
+3|
+x|
+x|
+x|Borrow from Death (1/day, SLA), Scythe Throw and Return (-2 to BAB)

5th|
+3|
+x|
+x|
+x|Deaths Touch (3D6), Modify Touch- (Area of Effect shape)

6th|
+4|
+x|
+x|
+x|Aspect of Death (Hood), Borrow from Death (2/day)

7th|
+5|
+x|
+x|
+x|Deaths Touch (4D6), Black Aura+5ft

8th|
+6/+1|
+x|
+x|
+x|Aspect of Death (Black Marsh Boots), Deaths retribution (1, once a day)

9th|
+6/+1|
+x|
+x|
+x|Deaths Touch (5D6) - Black Aura +10ft

10th|
+7/+2|
+x|
+x|
+x|Deaths Retribution (2, 1/day) - Deaths Aspect (Cloak)

11th|
+8/+3|
+x|
+x|
+x|Deaths Touch (6D6) - Modify Touch (Energy Type, Positive/Negative)

12th|
+9/+4|
+x|
+x|
+x|Deaths Retribution (2, 2/day) - Black Aura, Greater (+15ft)

13th|
+9/+4|
+x|
+x|
+x|Deaths Touch (7D6) - Empower Scythe (+3D6, +5BAB) (3/day)

14th|
+10/+5|
+x|
+x|
+x|Black Syphon (2/day) - Borrow from Death (3/day, BAB)

15th|
+11/+6/+1|
+x|
+x|
+x|Deaths Touch (8D6), Black Aura (+20ft)

16th|
+12/+7/+2|
+x|
+x|
+x|Cloudkill, SLA, (2/day) - Circle of death, SLA (1/day) - Black Syphon (3/day)

17th|
+12/+7/+2|
+x|
+x|
+x|Deaths Touch (9D6) - Modify Touch (Elemental Type)

18th|
+13/+8/+3|
+x|
+x|
+x|Finger of Death, SLA, (3/day) - Borrow from death (4/day)

19th|
+14/+9/+4|
+x|
+x|
+x|Deaths Touch (10D6) - Power Word Kill (2/day) - Wail of the Banshee (2/day)

20th|
+15/+10/+5|
+x|
+x|
+x|TimeStop (2/day) - Black Syphon (3/day) - Maximise Deaths Touch (2/day), Avatar of Death, Deaths Retribution (4, 3/day)[/table]

--ABILITY DESCRIPTORS--
Borrow from Death Death grants his minions the ability to take from the souls of the dead, as where they are going, they will most certainly have no need for it. A certain amount of times per day, a Disciple can touch a recently deceased Character, enemy or individual, and take part of their essence, this begins at allowing the Disciple to borrow a spell, then a SLA all the way up to a characters BAB. This ability lasts for 1 round per level of the Disciple, or until that spell/ability/BAB has been used once. The level of spell that can be taken is equal to one half the Disciples level, thus one at second level, two at fourth, three at sixth etc.. Up until nine at eighteenth, only one Spell/Ability/BAB can be taken and stored.

Black Aura -Gain 1 HP for every death that occurs in range and 1 Aura Point per every third enemy.

Black Aura, Greater- Gain 2HP for every death that occurs in range and 1 Aura Point per every third enemy.

Aspect of Death, Hood-Only death can see everything, those in this world and in others no longer hide from the eyes of death. This allows the character to see all invisible creatures permanently. This nullifies the effect of Blink, Mirror Image, Invisibility, Greater Invisibility etc.

Aspect of Death, Black Marsh Boots- Death is the swiftest of movements in any world, coming and going at leisure. This ability grants +30 Movement (5/day)

Aspect of Death, Cloak- Death creeps upon life like an ever silent dagger, coming and going as he pleases. This ability grants +20 to Hide (3/day) Stone Meld as per the spell SLA (3/day)

Black Syphon - Sometimes Deaths minions need others to stay alive to further their cause. Thus death grants the Disciple the ability to shorten the life of one, to increase the life of another. What is given must be taken. Steal HP from yourself, or other party members to heal yourself or another party member, the amount able to be stolen, is equivalent to the DotR's Deaths Touch ability, the HP stolen cannot be healed for a twenty four hour period. No roll needs to be made, only willing persons can be Syhoned from.

Avatar of Death- The DotR becomes the avatar of Death, increasing his BAB to that of a fighter of equivalent level +3BAB on top of that, as well as gaining all good Ref/Will/Fort saves, on top of this- two CR 10 creatures (temporary until proper suitable creature is found) bodyguards arrive to assist Deaths Avatar. This lasts 1 round per 3 levels of DotR.

Deaths Retribution- Death is not the only force to be reckoned with in the world, thus sometimes he will offer the souls of the dead in aid of the Disciples cause. The enemies of the DotR get up and avenge his will, as per the spell the DotR can animate dead a number of enemies a certain amount of times per day.

Deaths Touch- At first level this ability is only a melee ability, until the Disciple gains Modify Deaths Touch. The DotR core ability, this power is at will, an unlimited number of times per day. It does not run out, and anti magic fields do not stop the ability. A touch attack is made for a successful attack, both ranged and melee. The Disciple can make a Deaths Touch attack as a standard action only.

The Black Aura pool raises at one point per level, the DotR thus has a maximum of 20 points at 20th level, these points can be spent to "Burst increase" a certain roll, BAB or skill use. The number thus added is not ongoing, and is only usable for one die roll. Thus if the DotR were facing off against a fighter, they could spend 10 points on their next "To hit", 10 points on their next "AC check" and 10 points on to damage. Making a possible definite hit, but only once until they again accumulate the necessary Aura Pool.

Notes: Whilst this class is almost finished, I am open to any and all suggestions on improvements, comments, helpful insights, --CONSTRUCTIVE-- criticism etc. I need to know if it is under or over powered, or spot on. I need to know exactly how it would do in a fight, using skills etc.

I have not included skills as of yet, but they will be added, just don't critique those for now.

I am aware that the saves have not been done, this is to be edited next.

Thanks guys!

P.S: Again, I am new to D and D, and to design, so unless your criticism is helpful, please don't bother.

-Edited- Table added, BAB/Ref/Will/Fort changes still to be made, abilities to be updated, abilities added, some fluff added and Table modified.

Innis Cabal
2009-01-25, 08:16 PM
Look here on how to format. (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=10313). Your post otherwise is a very massive wall of text and is very hard to go through.

Also, you can just use the & between the two D's, alot easier.

Now for the class


Black Aura -Gain 1 HP for every death that occurs in range and 1 Aura Point per every third enemy.

Black Aura, Greater- Gain 2HP for every death that occurs in range and 1 Aura Point per every third enemy.

Not all that useful, 1/2 HP per creature killed, you won't be killing enough creatures to make these abilities viable. Not only that, what type of HP are they? Do they simply heal you? Are they temporary hitpoints? How long do they last? If they are permanent then this is way to powerful.


Aspect of Death, Hood- True Seeing at will.

Aspect of Death, Black Marsh Boots- +30 Movement (5/day)

Aspect of Death, Cloak +20 to Hide (3/day) Stone Meld as per the spell SLA (3/day)

I thought you stated that you wanted a class that didn't rely on spels. So far thats all this class does. Spell like abilities are still spells. Not only that, as pointed out in the table above they get more then just these, such as Power Word Kill, Wail of the Banshee and Time Stop. Way to powerful, and seems to go against what you said you wanted in the first place


Black Syphon - Steal HP from yourself, or other party members to heal yourself or another party member, the amount able to be stolen, is equivalent to the DotR's Deaths Touch ability.

Do you mean this is in addition to the death touch ability? Do you have to roll for it? Or do you have to max the roll and go with that? It needs some clarification


Avatar of Death- The DotR becomes the avatar of Death, increasing his BAB to that of a fighter of equivalent level +3BAB on top of that, as well as gaining the Wizard, the Reflex Save of a thief, and the Fortitude save of a fighter, on top of this- two Solar (MM3) bodyguards arrive to assist Deaths Avatar.

Why solars? This dosn't seem to be an all togather GOOD class, so why can it summon angels? Not only that, solar's are some of the strongest core monsters, and granting two is asking for Miracle abuse. As written this is way over powered.

Aside from that, the ability is not that great for a capstone. You don't need to provide examples of class. Just say they get Good ref, fort and will saves and a max B.A.B. But again, not that great of a capstone. How many times a day can he use this? How long does the ability last?


Deaths Retribution- The enemies of the DotR get up and avenge his will, as per the spell the DotR can animate dead a number of enemies a certain amount of times per day.

Why can he do this? Some fluff would be nice along with this class. As far as an ability goes, how many HD of undead can he control at a time. How long do they last? As per what spell? Animate Dead? The wording needs a little work.


Deaths Touch- The DotR core ability, this power is at will, an unlimited number of times per day. It does not run out, and anti magic fields do not stop the ability. The touch is made at the DotR's BAB, but only a touch attack needs to succeed to hit.

The bolded part dosn't need to be said, its understood it uses the B.A.B of the class unless stated otherwise.


The Black Aura pool raises at two points per level, the DotR thus has a maximum of 40 points at 20th level, these points can be spent to "Burst increase" a certain roll, BAB or skill use. The number thus added is not ongoing, and is only usable for one die roll. Thus if the DotR were facing off against a fighter, they could spend 10 points on their next "To hit", 10 points on their next "AC check" and 10 points on to damage. Making a possible definite hit, but only once until they again accumulate the necessary Aura Pool.

The pool is way to large. Its not a bad idea....but its just way to high. Cut it in half and it would be a little more usable.

Outside of this, what are their armor prof's and weapon profs. What Hit die are they on?


As its written, this class needs alot of work, fluff and clarification. Its really weak at low levels and really really powerful later on. Being able to summon CR 20 creatures that can cast miracle, along with the loads of spell like abilities you've given them making them a top heavy class.

Hope that helps

-Baldur-
2009-01-25, 08:46 PM
It did, it did. Extremely so, I will have to work on this. Keep an eye out for changes. Fair enough on the Solar call, do you have any "Divine Evil Intervention" type suggestions for monster class that could be called as Body Guards? As for the lack of spells, I more so meant a "spells per day" pool than just SLA, I guess I really should of clarified that.

As for the Black Aura, it is every death, not just enemies killed, if the class wished he could slaughter a town and heal himself (obviously the drawback to this being that he draws the attention of every authority for miles). Should I make the HP gain higher or lower on this? Would it be better as just a heal to maximum HP only, or make them temporary hit points that can go above the maximum?

I'm considering taking out Time Stop, but want to keep the SLA's Power Word Kill, Wail of the Banshee etc. It runs with the death theme and helps him to power his black aura and Deaths Retribution abilities.

You're right, I do need a LOT more fluff though.

Black Syphon is auto-hit (per se). The points are not curable for a whole day. I'll have to add this in. I thought this would balance it out, as no character would readily give up non-curable HP without it being to save a life of a team mate in peril. Balanced? Not balanced?

Is Deaths Touch too over or under powered?

Innis Cabal
2009-01-25, 09:43 PM
What you have here is very similar to a weak more melee based Warlock.

I think you should really take a look at this class and gauge what you want. You can use the invocation base to make a cleaner and less day based.

As it stands this guy is a glass cannon with a ticking clock on it.

Death touch should be limited to one standard action, as its easier to hit then with a S.A, and you don't need to be flanking/etc.

Baron Corm
2009-01-26, 12:14 AM
A little hint for class making: If your class features are "another class's best features, but better", your class is overpowered.

3/4 BAB plus the best arcane spells is too good. Fighter's BAB +3 is just insulting the fighter (and has nothing to do with death).

If Death's Touch deals damage, you should probably mention that. And it pretty clearly should be a Supernatural effect, so anti-magic fields should stop it. You don't wield the epic-level magic of death, you're just an adventurer.

I think your description of the Black Aura pool is under Death's Touch but should really belong under Black Aura...

Borrow from Death needs limits. Stealing epic spells from a caster dead for thousands of years should not be possible... let alone at level 1.

Your class features should be arranged in the order in which the class gets them, so that the class from 1-20 is easier to comprehend. Look at existing classes in the SRD (http://www.d20srd.org/) to see how it's done, and to see what your ability descriptions should look like. Right now you have descriptions for mechanics which are self-explanatory, and just clog up the screen.

-Baldur-
2009-01-26, 12:21 AM
Fair fair and very fair.

Should his only really primary way of dealing damage be stopped via anti-magic field though? He's pretty much useless without that Touch, especially if he's already used his death abilities per day.

And you're right about the cap, I did state recently dead, but I didn't put a limit, any suggestions on what the limit might be? 1 day per caster level? 1 round per caster level?

Also, I'm new, you'll have to explain to me what abilities I've taken that are one classes best feature? Innis Cabal said I'm pretty much an under powered warlock, so through logical deduction I'm presuming you mean that? I've never seen the warlock though so I'm not sure. Is there anyway to underpower this class without leaving him lacking in the Bringer of Death for the Death god type vein?

Please let me know, I'll keep on top of it all if possible.

Baron Corm
2009-01-26, 12:34 AM
Should his only really primary way of dealing damage be stopped via anti-magic field though? He's pretty much useless without that Touch, especially if he's already used his death abilities per day.

The touch does 10d6 damage as a standard action at level 20. Using a 2-hander and Power Attack, you're doing at least 2d6+30 (but definitely a lot more with items and other bonuses). I wouldn't call it his best means of dealing damage. Mostly just useful against someone with high AC but low touch AC. Rogues' 10d6 thing is damaging because they can apply it to all of their attacks.


And you're right about the cap, I did state recently dead, but I didn't put a limit, any suggestions on what the limit might be? 1 day per caster level? 1 round per caster level?

There's no problem with just saying "as long as the body is intact and in good condition". That would be subject to DM approval. It just prevents you going through a graveyard of long dead dudes and becoming superman at level 1.

The other, possibly bigger problem is that you can still steal 9th or epic level spells at level 1, so just shrink that down.


Also, I'm new, you'll have to explain to me what abilities I've taken that are one classes best feature? Innis Cabal said I'm pretty much an under powered warlock, so through logical deduction I'm presuming you mean that? I've never seen the warlock though so I'm not sure. Is there anyway to underpower this class without leaving him lacking in the Bringer of Death for the Death god type vein?

That was this: "3/4 BAB plus the best arcane spells is too good. Fighter's BAB +3 is just insulting the fighter (and has nothing to do with death)."

I really think the best help you can get though, is by looking at other classes in the SRD and following their formats and wording more.

Edit: There appear to be things on the table that aren't in the description... especially regarding scythe damage and Death's Touch. Could you expand upon those?

-Baldur-
2009-01-26, 03:13 AM
Hehe that'll teach me for posting when I'm tired won't it?

Well your input has been great so far, so give me a few days and I'll try and get round to ironing out the issues you both discussed, I'll add some fluff, take a little, add a little, see if we can make it the perfect recipe.

I'll change some things and then we'll see how we're going. Thanks for the constructive criticism though, I've seen some people on these boards and they can be pretty harsh!

Edit * The Borrow from dead ability was changed to be: One half the Disciples level, thus 9th level spells can only be stolen at eighteenth level. Also, it already said that only -one- spell OR bab OR sla can be stolen and stored. Does this make it more balanced or...?