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View Full Version : Embracing the Lovecraftian Gods: How Would You Do It For A Good Character?



Leliel
2009-01-25, 08:30 PM
Anyway, Ivan Emmerich, my PC for a CthulhuTech game (Lovecraft WITH GIANT ROBOTS!), is, shall we say...Is missing a few pipers with the Daemon Sultan.

That, combined with the fact that he has an alien parasite (well, symbiote, but still) in his right hand and is an abnormally powerful telepath leads me to believe the GM will inevitably reveal that he's been corrupted by Yog-Sothoth or somesort.

That's were the subversion kicks in: You see, Ivan doesn't like being insane: he loves it. In his opinion, all people have the glimmer of madness deep within, and if he embraces it, so what? Being off your rocker already is a bit of an advantage in the world he lives in.

That said, he's still a fundementally nice person who hates hurting people, so if somone *cough*Nyarlathotep*cough* offered him power and knowlege at the expense of humanity, he would turn it down in a heartbeat. If, however, he discovered another, less damaging way-say, using the corruption outlined above-he would do it in a heartbeat, both gaining great power and knowlege for himself, and now being able to help humanity in a whole new way (and before you point out that this help would likley entail turning humans into beings like him, he knows that his path is his own-no one else wants it).

So how would you play somone "embracing the madness" but still a good guy?

Mikeavelli
2009-01-25, 09:24 PM
The Mad musician Lovecraft wrote about in the Music of Erich Zann is a good example of this sort of person. He's a man who embraced the madness, playing music no-one had ever heard before or since; and he uses it to keep back the abominations from beyond this world.

Fluffwise you've got noble intentions, but embracing the madness in Lovecraft-inspired works almost never ends well, and depending on your GM, he'll force it to not end well.

Let him read that story though, tell him you want to be like Erich Zann.

Jothki
2009-01-25, 10:21 PM
If he keeps getting crazier, won't he eventually lose the ability to tell the difference between right and wrong, even if he still fundamentally seeks to do the right thing?

Khatoblepas
2009-01-25, 10:33 PM
That said, he's still a fundementally nice person who hates hurting people, so if somone *cough*Nyarlathotep*cough* offered him power and knowlege at the expense of humanity, he would turn it down in a heartbeat. If, however, he discovered another, less damaging way-say, using the corruption outlined above-he would do it in a heartbeat, both gaining great power and knowlege for himself, and now being able to help humanity in a whole new way (and before you point out that this help would likley entail turning humans into beings like him, he knows that his path is his own-no one else wants it).

Hah, noone would give you power if it meant you'd use it to STOP the Old Ones. Especially Nyarlathotep, who I think is the slipperiest and most cunning of them all. If you have the power, you're going to inevitably use it to speed the coming of the Old Ones. They're greater than you. They're much smarter than you. They're infinitely more significant than you. If you think you can outsmart them, you can kiss your sanity, your life, your soul goodbye. If you have an alien symbiote, you can bet your life it's got a more pressing agenda than you. You can try, but you'll fail.

Because you're nothing.

That's not to say you can't try, though. Noble goal, anyway, using the Old One's power against them. Just be warned that the likes of Nylarly are far more cunning than you, and any power given from the Old Ones have so many strings attached you'll be dancing for them as their little puppet.


So how would you play somone "embracing the madness" but still a good guy?

You're noble. You want to help people. You're a self-proclaimed philanthropist. Their messiah. But then the madness strikes.

You're slipping. Slipping away. You have trouble holding your morals, faced with the all encompassing horror that is the Great Old Ones. You hold the idea of "saving mankind" as some kind of anchor to your ailing sanity (otherwise, your life would be utterly meaningless), even if it is a crumbling, vestigial thing. You speak of your lofty noble goals, how humanity must survive, and how ultimately, noone must get hurt. Of course, that means, the individual can be sacrificed. Then the small group. Then, the majority, so long as humanity survives. You will watch the world crumble under the might of the Great Old Ones, humanity enslaved and warped beyond recognition - mere packhorses and cattle to something greater. Disparate tribes of degenerate things living in squalid caves globes apart, barely thinking, never interfering. Perhaps as living fossils, hooked up to some kind of machine to display the gruesome innards of our physiology as a macabre curiosity. Or maybe just as a bedtime story to whatever great race takes over our insignificant little rock. In all of these, mankind survives.

In whatever form possible.

Isn't that what you wanted to begin with?

Prometheus
2009-01-25, 10:56 PM
Well, I did make a joke post in this thread (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=98432) about Cthulhu being Good:

Cthulhu is misunderstood - he's really Chaotic Good.

After all, Cthulhu is more important and more aware than mere mortals like you and I, and therefore it seems only fair that he get's first priority in life decisions. If it so happens that he loves to watch mortals suffer, flee in terror, and turn on each other, so be it. Who are you to question God, (http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?book_id=22&chapter=38&version=31) anyway? Pretty much the standard utility monster (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Utility_monster).

The only other thing I can think of (that hasn't already been said) was the idea of evil as necessary to demonstrate the importance of good. When I was younger, I developed a theory (incorrect now I believe) that people like Hitler and Stalin weren't really evil, but rather did things so horrific that even people who are generally selfish and ignorant (i.e. the closest thing to real evil) would be inspired to be more conscientious in order to mentally distance themselves from the worst of humanity. Of course those individuals would make the world pay a price, but that would be nothing compared to the price that they would pay against their own pride, legacy, identity, purity etc. In a certain sense, they would be people who so martyr themselves that they condemn themselves to hell (in some form of another). Of course, this attempt in doing the convoluted greater good would fail miserably and has tenuous logic - but perhaps it is something a naive, idealistic, and mentally-corrupted person might fall for.

Leliel
2009-01-25, 11:23 PM
If he keeps getting crazier, won't he eventually lose the ability to tell the difference between right and wrong, even if he still fundamentally seeks to do the right thing?

Well, since there seems to be intrest in this idea, I'll explain a bit of his peronaslity:

Given the particular nature of his powers-he's a Zoner, which means he awakened when his mind came into contact with Azathoth's home dimension-and the fact that he purposefully engineered circumstances that way, madness is intrinsic to his very being-specifically, he has Severe Anxiety Disorder and OCD.

However, for him, there is a good side to being insane-all great works are born from the lack of regard for reality, and a touch of insanity frees the true self-the unconscious self-from the shackles of entrenched thought. True, most insanity frees that in a less than amicable way, but it can be funnled into making what once seemed insane a reality.

In that sense, to be mad, is to be human.

Here's a quote from when he got his powers:

"I looked into a realm no mortal should see...and what I saw was beautiful."

To Khatoblepas, specifically: Nor is he dumb-he knows that when dealing with a Old One, the best thing to do is to run away.

However, in a bit of a twist, it is possible by the books, however extremely, extremely difficult, to ascend to the realm of the Lovecratian gods and still be sane-By learning a way to command power beyond the pale of the mortal realms, and, should one's mind hold, will be begin to understand the laws of the univers on a whole new level-while still retaining the base of who you are, a soul unbound by time.

Are you alien and strange? Certainly. Are you insane? Perhaps by the standard of the unascended, but no-you simply understand. While you will never truly wield power as the Old Ones, but now you realize that they are not ommnipotent-the Infinite Varities, the very laws of the universe, have existed far longer then they, and with a little nudge, perhaps you can help your mortal bretheren use them against the alien gods.

Not to defeat them, mind you, but to escape them.

...I just made my first fanfiction.:smallamused:

Khatoblepas
2009-01-26, 09:55 AM
To Khatoblepas, specifically: Nor is he dumb-he knows that when dealing with a Old One, the best thing to do is to run away.

There isn't a best thing to do when dealing with Old Ones. We can't exactly run out of their sphere of influence. And if they interact with you, it's on their terms. Your encounter with Azathoth's dimension? That is either Azzy or Nyarly's will.


However, in a bit of a twist, it is possible by the books, however extremely, extremely difficult, to ascend to the realm of the Lovecratian gods and still be sane-By learning a way to command power beyond the pale of the mortal realms, and, should one's mind hold, will be begin to understand the laws of the univers on a whole new level-while still retaining the base of who you are, a soul unbound by time.

Except, you can never retain much of yourself if you gain that much power. You're thinking with the mind of someone who thinks he has power, but does not. Switch your mindset to someone who does have power. Consider, for a moment, that you join a multinational corporation, and your aims are to help people. To not be evil. As you raise in ranks, and soon, you are chairman, your perspective and goals change as other companies battle you, as your customers demand things, your goals change and suddenly helping people isn't as high on your agenda.

Also, do you care for the bacteria that infests the street you walk on? Would you want to empower dogs? It's the same thing in this instance. Once you have the power, suddenly, humans aren't that high on your agenda. You might try to help them, but you're just a little fish in a big pond, being ultimately controlled by something far greater than you can imagine. You can't be sane by human terms, and you can't be moralistic by human terms, you are above them. Which leads me onto:


Are you alien and strange? Certainly. Are you insane? Perhaps by the standard of the unascended, but no-you simply understand. While you will never truly wield power as the Old Ones, but now you realize that they are not ommnipotent-the Infinite Varities, the very laws of the universe, have existed far longer then they, and with a little nudge, perhaps you can help your mortal bretheren use them against the alien gods.

Not to defeat them, mind you, but to escape them.

I don't think you truly appreciate the sheer scale of the Old Ones compared to us. If they found you being a nuisance, you would be less than dead. Your power, your existance, you live because they're letting you. You can't escape them, we are three dimensional beings moving in the forth dimension. We're dust on the wind to them. Even with untold power, we are a wan, pathetic spark of a wet match in the darkness compared to a star. And there are a LOT of stars in the universe. Fighting them, escaping them, hindrancing them, is like spitting on the sun to put it out.

At your very, very, very best. Perhaps you have enough power to fumble a weak, flabby punch against the weakest of the Old Ones.

You're just humouring them. And even in their fevered dreams, their sleep, their prisons, they can swat you like a fly. You aren't facing them while they are awake - this is them at their worst.

And this is cosmic horror. It's all about starting off with noble intentions, giant goals, and then it all going to hell when you realise how insignificant you are. And then you kill yourself, if you're lucky. My point is, once you have power, it will corrupt you, and you won't care about humans. You might think you will, but you won't.

Leliel
2009-01-26, 10:36 AM
That would make sense, if this was Call of Cthulhu rather then CthulhuTech.

However, a big theme of the game is that, while it is highly unlikely, humanity can escape the grip of the Old Ones and survive or even thrive in their shadow.

There's already a canonical example of this: The Mi-Go (well, the name's actually spelled Migou this time but I digress) are a perfectly mortal, if alien and emotionally unreadable, species that has evolved into a spacefaring empire of sorcerers while still resisting the Old One's influence. While they are the other great enemy of the setting, and were on the brink of enslaving humanity themselves when the cults came along and they ha to divide their attention, they are still an example of a race that saw the true horrors of the universe, remained sane, and kept on going to become quite the technolgical and magical species. Indeed, that's why they hate humanity-they're afraid of them becoming as equally or more powerful then them, and they want to nip the not-just-potential-thanks-to-their-actions enemy in the bud.

That, and they're afraid of Cthulhu awakening. They aren't dumb.

Canadian
2009-01-26, 12:40 PM
He walks around yelling "Hastur, Hastur, Hastur!" With a big smile on his face.