Revy VS Lara

[Brewdude]

Bat**** Crazy gunslinger Revy from Black Lagoon vs
Rich English Indiana Jones Wannabe Lara Croft.

Black Lagoon shipping has just been hired to acquire and transport a significant archeological artifact from point a to point b. Lara Croft has just been informed of the same artifact, both are going for it.

Who ends up with it?

[Foeofthelance]

It kinda depends. If Butch sends in just Revy, Lara is probably a goner. Both have high acrobatic skills and dual wield, but Lara is much more stealthy, whereas Revy's thoughts would be something along the lines of "Guns+outfit= B***** bimbo competition" and just shoot Lara before Lara gets a chance to say something.

If Butch sends Rock with her, there's a 50/50 chance of a prolonged hostage situation, at which point things get worse for Lara as Butch and Benny, and then probabably Balailaka get involved, or Rock manages to convince Lara to pony up more money than they are already being paid to turn the artifact over to her. Unless Balailaka hired the Lagoon, at which point Lara once again dies, since Butch won't cross her on a job.

[Nerd-o-rama]

And here I was hoping for some Finaru Herru...Judecca! Just goes to show I need to actually watch Black Lagoon and lay off the imported video games.

[Brewdude]

Ah,but you are forgetting the acquisition portion. Lara always has more information about the site than her competitors, not to mention vehicular and swimming/athletic dominance. Revy's definitely got her on the draw, but Lara's a slippery fish when it comes to running away from bad guys, not to mention her ability to use the surroundings to her advantage.

Straight up, Revy'll beat her to the draw, but then they'll John woo it as Lara takes off on her snowmobile. Lara also has the tech advantage, having all the latest toys. Unfortunately, Lara will be shooting to distract, while Revy will be shooting to kill. Eventually Revy's Bloodlust will win out, unless Lara makes it all the way home, in which case, Lara's robot training partner will waste her.

Now, if the whole team is involved, Bennie will nullify the tech advantage, and yes, Rock will negotiate the settlement. Unknown what happens if Bailaila is involved, other than negotiations will break down. Lara should actually be able to survive the special forces goons as they assault her home, so as death isn't the winning condition, I give this one to Lara.

[Tengu_temp]

My stance is biased, but I'll say Revy - while I've never seen Black Lagoon I'd imagine it's amusing in its over-the-topness, while all Tomb Raiders beyond the first, maybe second, were disappointing and the only thing that kept them running were hordes of fanboys drooling over the shallow Mary Sue that is Lara. Yeah, I really don't like Lara Croft. And my urge to kill people rises each time someone calls her the original video game heroine.

[Closet_Skeleton]

In a fight Revy would win. She has the advantage of being a psychotic killer, no matter how much Lara trains she'll never match Revy's ruthlessness.

[Foeofthelance]

Ah,but you are forgetting the acquisition portion. Lara always has more information about the site than her competitors, not to mention vehicular and swimming/athletic dominance. Revy's definitely got her on the draw, but Lara's a slippery fish when it comes to running away from bad guys, not to mention her ability to use the surroundings to her advantage.


"I'm a business man, Bennie. Do you really think I would have hired her if she was only good with guns?" -Butch, on Revy

First, I'm going to have to disagree with Lara having physical, swimming, and vehicular dominance. Cites:

Vehicular dominance: Revy is constantly operating out of vehicles, whether it is a car or boat, and has never shown and capacity to be hindered by them.

Swimming: Revy's main place of occupation is a boat. Butch describes her as being an excellent swimmer, which is one of the reasons he hired her in the first place. At one point in the series she dives on a sunken Nazi submarine, using full SCUBA kit, which requires some knowledge/training.

Physical: At one point Revy engages in a multiple shoot-out with several boats, by jumping from one to another to another and shooting the crews at point blank range.

As for recovery... I once again point to said SCUBA dive on the sunken wreck. If she has no problem hacking her way into a downed U-boat, I don't see why she would have a hard time collecting the artifact from whatever death trap it might be safeguarded by. She displays quite a bit of savvy when it comes to not getting killed, and doesn't hesitate to pull the trigger herself.

[Talya]

Revy is anime. Lara is awesome. So by default, Lara wins. :)

[Illiterate Scribe]

My stance is biased, but I'll say Revy - while I've never seen Black Lagoon I'd imagine it's amusing in its over-the-topness, while all Tomb Raiders beyond the first, maybe second, were disappointing and the only thing that kept them running were hordes of fanboys drooling over the shallow Mary Sue that is Lara. Yeah, I really don't like Lara Croft. And my urge to kill people rises each time someone calls her the original video game heroine.

Gah, the disease of misusing that word is spreading. Lara barely even has enough character to be anything, let alone the complex net of delusion, self-insertion, and wish-fulfilment to count as a Sue.

[Selrahc]

Don't know anything about Revy. Know a fair amount about Lara, but don't really like her. Here is my perspective:


In a fight Revy would win. She has the advantage of being a psychotic killer, no matter how much Lara trains she'll never match Revy's ruthlessness.

Lara is a totally ruthless bitch from what I've seen. She spends her entire life hunting down treasure, which she then stores in her basement. To do this she ruthlessly guns down armies of enemies, whose only crime is doing the same thing she is attempting to do.
Lara is not a hero.



Swimming: Revy's main place of occupation is a boat. Butch describes her as being an excellent swimmer, which is one of the reasons he hired her in the first place. At one point in the series she dives on a sunken Nazi submarine, using full SCUBA kit, which requires some knowledge/training.

That um... doesn't seem like much? Lara is doing underwater puzzles all the time. Not many media put that much focus on swimming, but the Tomb Raider franchise seems to put a hardcore emphasis on it. Lara has for example swum through the length of a sewer with no air; fought octopus, shark, and crocodiles as well as weird subteranean monsters; been swimming in jungles, tropical islands, catacombs, temples, the artic, deep under the ocean and various other locales; she has pulled levers, cranked gears, shifted rocks, picked locks and various other things underwater. I'm not sure why they go for the underwater thing so much, but I'd say if there was just one area that Lara Croft stands out in, then it is in swimming.

Work on a boat, and being a strong swimmer with scuba training is all fairly run of the mill stuff. I mean, that describes my dad and I wouldn't be betting on him to beat Lara.



Physical: At one point Revy engages in a multiple shoot-out with several boats, by jumping from one to another to another and shooting the crews at point blank range.

Sounds about equivalent really. Lara has for example, jumped from train to train fighting military forces. Or jumped from collapsing pillar to collapsing pillar in an erupting volcano. Between multiple layers of shifting masonry while being attacked by an angry god.


Vehicular dominance: Revy is constantly operating out of vehicles, whether it is a car or boat, and has never shown and capacity to be hindered by them.

I'm not quite sure what that means...
Lara can drive a variety of vehicles of different sorts at some level of skill, but I don't think she ranks as any sort of stunt driver. Revy could be better.

[Illiterate Scribe]

I'm not sure why they go for the underwater thing so much,

It justifies putting her in a wetsuit.

[Llama231]

Revy is anime. Lara is awesome. So by default, Lara wins. :)

^This.
Too much anime.

[Nerd-o-rama]

Revy is anime. Lara is awesome. So by default, Lara wins. :)

^This.
Too much anime.This sort comment is a fair bit insulting to those who happen not to share your tastes, you know.

I remember Tomb Raider mostly for its exceptionally bad controls for a platformer/action game, so I certainly hope Lara can move better than I the player can make her move, or she's toast.

[Llama231]

This sort comment is a fair bit insulting to those who happen not to share your tastes, you know.

I remember Tomb Raider mostly for its exceptionally bad controls for a platformer/action game, so I certainly hope Lara can move better than I the player can make her move, or she's toast.

Oh, sorry, I just have an in general dislike for most animes, as they are popular now.:smalltongue:
la li lu le lo
No offense intended.:smalleek:

[Cubey]

Oh, sorry, I just have an in general dislike for most animes, as they are popular now.:smalltongue:
la li lu le lo
No offense intended.:smalleek:

It's Popular, Now It Sucks, huh?

To quote Yahtzee (yes, HIM. I can't believe he said that either, but he did): "Sometimes, popular is popular because it's good".

[Tengu_temp]

Gah, the disease of misusing that word is spreading. Lara barely even has enough character to be anything, let alone the complex net of delusion, self-insertion, and wish-fulfilment to count as a Sue.

Lara is perfect at anything to the point of boredom, athletic, smart (supposedly), has huge boobs and no vices. She's supposed to be the character the player would love to have as a girlfriend, fantasize about and f*censored* over. That sounds like a Mary-Sue in my book.

[Closet_Skeleton]

It's Popular, Now It Sucks, huh?

To quote Yahtzee (yes, HIM. I can't believe he said that either, but he did): "Sometimes, popular is popular because it's good".

Sometimes popular is popular because people are shallow.

Though I'd go for "things are popular they suck slightly less than other things" myself.


Lara is perfect at anything to the point of boredom, athletic, smart (supposedly), has huge boobs and no vices. She's supposed to be the character the player would love to have as a girlfriend, fantasize about and f*censored* over. That sounds like a Mary-Sue in my book.

Sort of. Perfect audience surrogates are more Mary Sue than perfect girlfriends but I suppose you could say that every player character is a Mary Sue. Is Lara any less of a Mary Sue than Master Chief 1? Though my vote for biggest Mary Sue in video games is Alex Vance2 so I'm not the best judge of these things.

1 I don't bother with Gary/Marty Sue myself because calling guys Mary is so hilarious

2 seriously, my nickname for her is "NPSue" because everything she does shows up the player character while at the same time trying to be endeering

[Tengu_temp]

Though my vote for biggest Mary Sue in video games is Alex Vance2 so I'm not the best judge of these things.


Hmm, we actually agree on something once! Well, she's maybe not the biggest video game Mary-Sue for me, but surely somewhere on top of the list.

[Talya]

This sort comment is a fair bit insulting to those who happen not to share your tastes, you know.

Only if you define yourself by a genre of entertainment. In which case, everyone who dislikes anime will be offensive to you. Sorry about that. Can't be helped. I still despise almost every bit of anime I've ever seen. (I'll leave an exception open for the first Appleseed movie. And 80's Robotech.)


I remember Tomb Raider mostly for its exceptionally bad controls for a platformer/action game, so I certainly hope Lara can move better than I the player can make her move, or she's toast.

Tomb Raider had bad controls? They seemed pretty good to me, but I only played it on PC. Didn't like any Tomb Raider games after the first one (which was the first 3D accellerated PC game I ever had), at least until Tomb Raider Legend (and Anniversary was a decent remake), but that first game was a wonderful experience. Legend and Anniversary were the first PC games I ever used a console style controller for, I admit (XBox 360 controller on PC.)

[Texas_Ben]

Hmm, we actually agree on something once! Well, she's maybe not the biggest video game Mary-Sue for me, but surely somewhere on top of the list.
How do you figure? She never stuck me as being very sue-ish. Annoying, but not sue-ish. Just annoying. Oh so annoying.

*Edited to add some on-topic content*

I'm not very familiar with Tomb Raider but I'll vote the chick from black lagoon just because of how rediculously overpowered most anime is.

[warty goblin]

Hmm, the comparison of bad media in a combative context, my favorite!

To paraphrase Hector from Troy:
All my life, I've lived by a code, and the code is simple. Never bet against women who can kill Tyrannosaurs using only handguns.

It's not a code that applies often, but on occasion it proves quite valuable.

[Tengu_temp]

More offtopic, but one more reason why I don't like Lara are people calling her the original video game heroine. Hello, there's been a crapload of female main characters before her, and the actual holder of the title is Samus Aran.


Only if you define yourself by a genre of entertainment. In which case, everyone who dislikes anime will be offensive to you. Sorry about that. Can't be helped. I still despise almost every bit of anime I've ever seen. (I'll leave an exception open for the first Appleseed movie. And 80's Robotech.)


There is a difference between saying "I didn't like (almost) any X I watched", which you're doing now, and saying "all X is crap", which you implied in your previous post, and which suggests that all people who like X have bad tastes because they enjoy watching crap. Not to mention that anime is a (very loose) style, not a genre - people who dislike anime for reasons other than not being able to stand the drawing style simply have not seen the right series for them.

[warty goblin]

More offtopic, but one more reason why I don't like Lara are people calling her the original video game heroine. Hello, there's been a crapload of female main characters before her, and the actual holder of the title is Samus Aran.

So you don't like something because some people make factually incorrect statements about it? I'm not trying to be flamey, I'm just curious, since it seems an odd reason to dislike something.

[Tengu_temp]

I said "one more reason". I can't stand most of Tomb Raider's fandom, but there are other reasons than the fandom for my dislike of Lara as well.

[Selrahc]

More offtopic, but one more reason why I don't like Lara are people calling her the original video game heroine. Hello, there's been a crapload of female main characters before her, and the actual holder of the title is Samus Aran.

Uh... Samus Aran isn't either. I don't know what the actual first female game protagonist is, but the first one I can find is Ms. Pacman. I'm sure some of the games released in the decade before Ms. Pacman had female main characters too.

[Tengu_temp]

Huh, good point. Original video game action girl, then. I don't think if Ms. Pacman counts as an action girl.

[Talya]

There is a difference between saying "I didn't like (almost) any X I watched", which you're doing now, and saying "all X is crap",

What if I were to say, "the Spiderman movies are crap." Would I be insulting spiderman fans then? Giving one's opinion of entertainment, be it wonderful or garbage, cannot be construed as an attack or praise upon its fans.


Not to mention that anime is a (very loose) style, not a genre - people who dislike anime for reasons other than not being able to stand the drawing style simply have not seen the right series for them.


I find most of the anime "style" then, if you prefer, has certain common traits that go way beyond the artistic style and more to do with dialogue, voice-acting, and most importantly, storyline, that rubs me the wrong way. I say most, because I don't mind the artistic style at all. Like I said earlier, Appleseed is great. And Robotech (particularly in the books written by pseudonym Jack McKinney) has one of my favorite story plots. Note that the related Macross doesn't. I think that probably it's specifically the "Americanization" of its plot that made it more palatable to me.

[Tengu_temp]

The difference here is rating vs being judgemental - giving an opinion on something you have seen vs givning an opinion on something you haven't seen. I don't mind people saying "all anime is crap" if they 1. say it in a context that clearly shows it's a subjective opinion and 2. have indeed seen all anime. Since point 2 is obviously not the case for anyone, nobody has the right to say "all anime is crap". "I didn't like all the anime I've seen" is fair, though.

By the way, have you seen any series marketted towards adults (and I don't mean those that are "adult" because they're full of nudity and violence)? From my experience, most people who "hate all anime" have seen little of it beyond Pokemon, Dragonball and Naruto.

[Talya]

By the way, have you seen any series marketted towards adults (and I don't mean those that are "adult" because they're full of nudity and violence)?


I've worked pretty hard at trying to like anime. I have several friends who happily call themselves "Otaku." I tried to get into it so I'd have an additional point to relate to them on. For the most part, the more i watch, the more it irritates me.

I was told to start with Hayao Miyazaki's stuff that Disney republished here in North America with high quality english dubs. I started with Princess Mononoke, Spirited Away, Kiki's Delivery Service, Howl's Moving Castle, and Nausicaa. I almost liked Nausicaa. After running out of Miyazaki, I tried Akira, Ghost in the Shell, and Appleseed. Appleseed grew on me. I disliked it after I watched it, but now I can happily watch it over again and enjoy it. Forget its sequel though...it was awful.

Hardly comprehensive, but i was told these were some of the best Anime movies there were...

[Tengu_temp]

So you tried cyberpunk, and Miyazaki's movies. That's two genres (if Miyazaki can be considered a genre), out of an extremely huge pool - every genre that exists in western fiction exists in abundance in anime as well, plus several almost unheard of in other forms of media on top of that. I still think there's be a lot of stuff you'd enjoy, and you just haven't happened to see it.

But enough offtopic, if you ask me. Let's continue with Revy vs Lara.

[warty goblin]

As a fellow Person Who Does Not Watch Anime, I can say that I mostly don't due to art style. I've really never seen any of the stuff that doesn't make me want to look at pretty much anything else. Is there some out there I find less eyebleeding? Almost certainly, but I've got enough stuff I like watching/reading/playing that I'm not going to spend the time to find out.

[Closet_Skeleton]

Hmm, we actually agree on something once! Well, she's maybe not the biggest video game Mary-Sue for me, but surely somewhere on top of the list.

Hey, it isn't like I try to disagree with everyone.

Of course she isn't the biggest Video-game Mary Sue, I don't play JRPGs (or non original XBox console games) so I would have no way to know what the real biggest Video-game Mary Sue was. In fact, I rarely play any video games nowadays because comic books are eating too much into my budget. That and most video games aren't worth spending money on anyway.


How do you figure? She never stuck me as being very sue-ish. Annoying, but not sue-ish. Just annoying. Oh so annoying.

Has martial arts moves the hero doesn't.

Has a robot dog that can kill striders which takes ages for Gordon to kill.

Isn't Barney, who's a well implemented anti-sue.

Can open doors Gordon can't use her stupid sonic screwdriver.

Everyone around her is oblivious to the fact that she's annoying and for some reason trust her on important missions.

The moment she gets injured an entire species is scrabbling around trying to heal her.

The developers want us to like her but haven't actually suceeded in doing so.

Lara has cooler sunglasses than Revy. I'll give her that.

[Nerd-o-rama]

Only if you define yourself by a genre of entertainment. In which case, everyone who dislikes anime will be offensive to you. Sorry about that. Can't be helped. I still despise almost every bit of anime I've ever seen. (I'll leave an exception open for the first Appleseed movie. And 80's Robotech.)I tried to respond to this last night, but it was, alas, completely impossible. Even now, it's too much of a hassle to open the thread and read any other responses on this tangent, for which I apologize; I usually try my hardest to do that.

Anyway, there's a difference between not liking a medium and going out of your way to tell people "This thing you like? It sucks." in every context where it's remotely relevant. I'd feel the same way if someone came into, say, a Doctor Doom vs. Sauron thread just to say "Comics suck!" or "Novels suck!" It's...pointless, except to irritate people who don't think those things suck.

I will say hell yeah, Robotech, though. I like what little I remember of it, and am debating between picking up the show (easier to access) or the Japanese originals of it (not hacked together out of three different animation styles. And less ear-rending singing).


And back on a slightly more related topic, Lara Croft isn't a Mary Sue. She's just a rather flagrant Indiana Jones knockoff (which in turn just makes her a more educated Alan Quartermain knockoff) with boobs and money.

[kyoten]

Try to drop the bickering please.

Now for my two cents:

Physical

Swimming- I'd say Lara since we haven't seen Revy's limits outside of a wetsuit

Endurance- I'd say Revy, she was able to run around and fistfight for over an hour. Lara is seen to become exhausted in the games if you push her too much.

Melee- I'd say Revy, mainly because I don't recall ever seeing Lara's melee capabilities.

Reflex- Lara, Revy is probably better when directly involved in combat. I'd have to say Lara wins overall.

Mental

Level head- Lara hands down. If you know about Revy 'nuff said.

Willpower- I'd say tie.

Social- Overall Lara, Detecting BS Revy

This is merely my opinion.

Side note:
Finally someone else who actually likes the Robotech novels. YES!