The Dying Earth [OOC] [Archive] - Giant in the Playground Forums

Grey_Wolf_c

2009-01-26, 03:17 AM

I'm slightly confused. I thought that the cure had been discovered by a group of heroes, as per the setting's description ("Finally a band of heroes discovered a secret that could stop the Red Plague."). I had assumed that once that was discovered, it quickly became a well-known remedy - in fact, I added the Remove Disease ritual to Dolgan as representative of it.

Anyway, going to assume that the heroes' cure is the remove disease ritual (that has an excellent chance of killing the recipient), and that the Princess' cure is, instead, one that doesn't risk the life of the person. That would really interest Dolgan. If this turns out to be completely wrong assumptions, I'll edit the post to something more appropriate.

Re: talking: I use both colour and quotes. It is a handy visual indicator, and in my mind is the "accent" of the person - I normally even change it slightly when my characters are in disguise or chanting or whatever.

By the way, how do y'all want me to handle healing? Shall I wait for your character's cue? If you want me to use my own initiative in keeping y'all healthy, I'd like to request that, during battle, you post your HP & defences (or a link to your char sheet, if you keep it updated).

Grey Wolf

NecroRebel

2009-01-26, 11:08 AM

By the way, how do y'all want me to handle healing? Shall I wait for your character's cue? If you want me to use my own initiative in keeping y'all healthy, I'd like to request that, during battle, you post your HP & defences (or a link to your char sheet, if you keep it updated).

Grey Wolf

I'd say use your own initiative. You can plan your actions better if you aren't beholden to our whims as much, and that hopefully will mean better tactics overall. I, at least, will be keeping my hit points posted (though ideally I'll be out of melee as much as I can maintain combat advantage without it, which implies that I'll be hiding a lot).

Tequila Sunrise

2009-01-26, 12:33 PM

Anyway, going to assume that the heroes' cure is the remove disease ritual (that has an excellent chance of killing the recipient), and that the Princess' cure is, instead, one that doesn't risk the life of the person. That would really interest Dolgan. If this turns out to be completely wrong assumptions, I'll edit the post to something more appropriate.
Yes, your assumption is correct. I could have made that clearer though. In game terms, the Red Plague was a high level disease.

Grey_Wolf_c

2009-01-26, 02:31 PM

Yes, your assumption is correct. I could have made that clearer though. In game terms, the Red Plague was a high level disease.

Ummm... I deliberately left the details on the "second battle of the kinfisher's pass" a little vague because I realised I'm not sure how much lore we can add to your game. If you don't have major battles already set, I'll sprinkle some here and there, and maybe even say who won and on what side Dolgan was at the time :smallbiggrin:

By the way, not sure if y'all get the dwarven bread reference - I tend to quote/reference Pratchett quite a bit, but I can tone it down, if you find it a bit of a bother.

Grey Wolf

Edit: The relevant quotes about dwarf bread:

"The one positive thing you could say about the [dwarven] bread products around him was that they were probably as edible now as they were on the day they were baked. Forged was a better term. Dwarf bread was made as a meal of last resort and also as a weapon and a currency." ~Terry Pratchett, The Fifth Elephant

"But it was miraculous, the dwarf bread. No one ever went hungry when they had some dwarf bread to avoid. You only had to look at it for a moment, and instantly you could think of dozens of things you'd rather eat. Your boots, for example. Mountains. Raw sheep. Your own foot." ~Terry Pratchett, Witches Abroad

There are many recipies for the flat round loaves of Lancre dwarf bread, but the common aim of all of them is to make a field ration that is long-lasting, easily packed and can disembowel the enemy if skimmed through the air hard enough. Edibility is a kind of optional extra. ~Terry Pratchett, Lords and Ladies

Tequila Sunrise

2009-01-26, 03:53 PM

Ummm... I deliberately left the details on the "second battle of the kinfisher's pass" a little vague because I realised I'm not sure how much lore we can add to your game. If you don't have major battles already set, I'll sprinkle some here and there, and maybe even say who won and on what side Dolgan was at the time :smallbiggrin:
I like players inventing history, it makes my job easier. :smallbiggrin: If you ever invent something that clashes with my plans, I'll tell you, no big deal. I think Dolgan would have been fighting with the Andoran forces, who were outnumbered but managed to hold the keep on the pass because the attackers, a Shimal army, was attacked from behind by a Bolshy force.

By the way, not sure if y'all get the dwarven bread reference - I tend to quote/reference Pratchett quite a bit, but I can tone it down, if you find it a bit of a bother.
I was laughing my @ss off when I read the dwarven waybread conversation--I love Pratchett!

TS

Grey_Wolf_c

2009-01-26, 06:46 PM

OK, I keep meaning to roll the restful bedroll temp HP, and I keep forgetting in each IC post, so I'm just going to roll it here.

[roll0]

Grey Wolf

Crucival

2009-01-26, 07:02 PM

Add my appreciation for the Pratchett dwarf bread comment. I may play my elf like a stoic, detached scholar, but I'll be damned if he won't have a dry sense of humor.

Vox Clamantis

2009-01-27, 06:01 AM

Sorry about my absence from the conversation; I've had trouble accessing the forums.

~Gabriel

P.S. Having one character hold two conversations at once really strains immersion. :smallconfused:

Grey_Wolf_c

2009-01-27, 06:11 AM

Sorry about my absence from the conversation; I've had trouble accessing the forums.

~Gabriel

P.S. Having one character hold two conversations at once really strains immersion. :smallconfused:

Really? I imagine he is just answering one, then turning his head and answering the other. I've held similar conversation IRL often enough. Only when the topic is heady do I need to ask "one at a time, please".

Regardless, this is PBP. It would take forever if we wrote a line, then waited for the answer, and left others waiting for a conversation to be resolved.

Grey Wolf

Vox Clamantis

2009-01-27, 07:22 AM

I've answered questions in the middle of a conversation before, but never so extensively. Regardless, it's just a small concern.

~Gabriel

Grey_Wolf_c

2009-01-27, 09:03 AM

I've answered questions in the middle of a conversation before, but never so extensively. Regardless, it's just a small concern.

~Gabriel

Not so small - you said it strains immersion. I'd rather not break your willing suspension of disbelief if I can help it. Thing is, it is a delicate balance between immersion and posting efficiency. When starting a conversation in PbP, it is a fact that, due to our varied schedules and time zones, it could be hours before the other character answers, and in the mean time, you may get involved in a second conversation. The way I usually picture it in my mind is a time-shift. Both conversations happen while we walk, one after the other, for example.

Hope that helps,

Grey Wolf

Tequila Sunrise

2009-01-27, 09:51 AM

Sorry about my absence from the conversation; I've had trouble accessing the forums.

~Gabriel
You too, huh? You know I'm thinking of moving this game to a pbp-oriented site; I haven't been able to access the forum since yesterday morning and I'll be surprised if this post goes through without a hitch.

Is anyone else having problems with GitP?

TS

Grey_Wolf_c

2009-01-27, 10:12 AM

You too, huh? You know I'm thinking of moving this game to a pbp-oriented site; I haven't been able to access the forum since yesterday morning and I'll be surprised if this post goes through without a hitch.

Is anyone else having problems with GitP?

TS

It takes me a few refreshes to get anything to load, so I suppose that's a yes, but it doesn't bother me all that much. Richard has been busy lately (he's posted a comic, what, every other day three times in a row?) and, every time, the massive posting brings the forum to its knees.

I am not particularly in favour of moving, but if we do, please consider myth weavers. We all have our characters there, and the amount of bells and whistles for PbP is quite amazing.

Grey Wolf

NecroRebel

2009-01-27, 11:23 AM

I've also had quite a bit of trouble with the forums here, particularly in the later afternoons and evenings, but I've just assumed it's because there's more traffic than the servers can handle. It would seem to me that the upcoming thread purge will help fix the problem if that is the case, as it will mean more space on the servers.

For roleplaying multiple conversations, I'd rather have each go at a reasonable pace simultaneously than to have them go one at a time and at a crawl. That is one of the prices of play-by-post: speed.

Crucival

2009-01-27, 11:52 AM

I think they're slowly doing a major forum update to make them less craptastic, but I'm also happy to move to myth-weavers if you like.

As for the conversations thing, well, part of the problem is you never know when someone's having a last word or expecting a reply, so people end up interrupting instead of starting afresh. In the future I will attempt to make conversations more inclusive so that there's more of a sense of all three of them being in the conversation rather than two separate ones. In this particular case, Variel (who lacks social skills :smallwink:) was reminiscing about things that Dolgan is more likely to remember and care about than Reed, and so it kinda...bifurcated the conversation. My bad.

Tequila Sunrise

2009-01-27, 01:56 PM

When is this forum purge supposed to happen?

NecroRebel

2009-01-27, 02:03 PM

Supposedly as early as February 1st. You can read about it here (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=103125), though a copy of the first post in that thread at least is stickied in every forum AFAIK.

Grey_Wolf_c

2009-01-28, 06:55 AM

Anyone else can think of something we need to check out before calling it a night?

Also, how do we approach the night? Shall we lock ourselves in the keep? Choose a defensible room? Camp outside? Also, how are we going to do the watches?

Grey Wolf

Vox Clamantis

2009-01-28, 08:22 AM

Four characters, three watches. Every three days, somebody gets to sleep the whole night. :smalltongue:

Laertius has an Instant Campsite, so we can sleep anywhere we like.

~Gabriel

Grey_Wolf_c

2009-01-28, 08:25 AM

Four characters, three watches. Every three days, somebody gets to sleep the whole night. :smalltongue:

Laertius has an Instant Campsite, so we can sleep anywhere we like.

~Gabriel

It's four watches of two hours each, if the non-elven want to get their requisite 6 hours. But I was refering to the fact that, having fey in the team, they can rest and keep watch at the same time.

And while Laertius may have that, I'm not sure how it could possibly come up, given that he won't talk to the rest of us :smalltongue:

Grey Wolf

Vox Clamantis

2009-01-28, 09:46 AM

In the real world, when traveling on foot one has to stop when it starts getting dark. Even if they're rising at dawn, the night is going to be longer than 8 hours. Depending on the season, anyway. I've done my fair share of backpacking.

Laertius is a very old man who's used to spending all of his time alone. Making friends isn't in his nature. And nothing that's been talked about so far has interested him in the slightest. Once things get going a bit, they might have something to talk about.

~Gabriel

Grey_Wolf_c

2009-01-28, 09:58 AM

In the real world, when traveling on foot one has to stop when it starts getting dark. Even if they're rising at dawn, the night is going to be longer than 8 hours. Depending on the season, anyway. I've done my fair share of backpacking.

Agreed... for humans. At least three of the members can see in the dark (not sure about half-demons), so there is no real reason for them to stop when it starts getting dark.

That said, I am unsure what your point is. As per RAW, 6 hours of rest is necessary to regain the daily powers. Since anyone standing watch doesn't get rest, that means that we need four turns of 4 hours each to all get the 6 hours. And even if this was otherwise, the keep is a good place to stop for the night, since it is defensible and has a ceiling.

Sure, we could figure out a way to reduce this by playing with the fact that eladrin need only four hours, but when you get down to it, elfs and eladrin can take the entire watch because they remain fully aware of their surroundings even while sleeping. I just feel that is hardly fair.

Laertius is a very old man who's used to spending all of his time alone. Making friends isn't in his nature. And nothing that's been talked about so far has interested him in the slightest. Once things get going a bit, they might have something to talk about.

~Gabriel

And there is nothing wrong with him being this way. It will give you a nice character development possibility, if you want to develop it. But Dolgan can hardly plan to use an object he has no idea exists, now can he?:smallwink:

Grey Wolf

Vox Clamantis

2009-01-28, 10:21 AM

My point, which wasn't necessarily going to affect anything in-game, was that when you have to stop at dusk to make camp and then wait for the sun to rise, even two watches would give everyone enough time for the required 6 hours of rest.

I'm also assuming that some kind of minor conversing has taken place during the hours of traveling. He keeps to himself, but that doesn't mean they're not all sharing basic information like 'hey, what's in yer pack'.

~Gabriel

P.S. He does have low-light vision, incidentally.

Tequila Sunrise

2009-01-28, 12:36 PM

I run night ambushes by watch schedule, so specific length of watches aren't really important. Just let me know in what order you're all taking watch, and where you're spending the night.

Grey_Wolf_c

2009-01-28, 01:34 PM

I run night ambushes by watch schedule, so specific length of watches aren't really important. Just let me know in what order you're all taking watch, and where you're spending the night.

Dolgan will look for rooms with good single set of doors, and at the top of towers. If none look particularly attractive, he will check out others. It would help to have a little more description of the place. We know there is a great hall, probably with several doors and with dead people in the fireplace. Lets call this place the bottom line. What other options have we found while looking all over the place?

Grey Wolf

NecroRebel

2009-01-28, 06:34 PM

Grey_Wolf_c

2009-01-28, 06:48 PM

How big are the canoes? I'm guessing that they're big enough for 2 Medium humanoids each, which would mean about 10 feet long. I'd suggest Reed and Dolgan crossing the river in one canoe, if we do decide to cross the river, and Variel and Laertius in the other canoe, as that would more evenly distribute the weight between the two.

Also, how much would a canoe cost? And, part of how big they are, would they fit into a Bag of Holding? We might want to take one with us :smallwink:

I think we're not so much crossing the river as we are sailing down to the mouth, from what I can remember of the map. Still, your weight distribution applies. Good call too with the cost, I had forgotten I will need that if we are to use the "make whole" ritual to speed things up (if we do, I'd ask that we all bear part of the cost).

Grey Wolf

NecroRebel

2009-01-28, 06:58 PM

I think we're not so much crossing the river as we are sailing down to the mouth, from what I can remember of the map. Still, your weight distribution applies. Good call too with the cost, I had forgotten I will need that if we are to use the "make whole" ritual to speed things up (if we do, I'd ask that we all bear part of the cost).

Grey Wolf

Ah, right... Maybe I should've checked the map instead of just assuming we were crossing it :smallredface:

Make Whole was my thought on asking those questions, actually, though I was a bit worried about people just beginning to repair stuff without checking the OOC thread for my perhaps overly-veiled suggestion. I would agree with splitting the cost for it, though for a 1st-level ritual used on mundane items the price will be fairly negligible.

Tequila Sunrise

2009-01-28, 07:22 PM

Oh, I forgot about Make Whole! MW will definitely work; let's say each two-person canoe is worth 100 gp, so MWing both will cost 10 gp per character.

A bag of holding has 20 cubic feet of volume, so you wouldn't be able to fit a canoe in there.

Tequila Sunrise

2009-01-29, 12:29 AM

Crucival, there is no corpse inside the house, just the remains of a hearth fire and the fire that burned the house.

NecroRebel

2009-01-29, 12:59 AM

A bag of holding has 20 cubic feet of volume, so you wouldn't be able to fit a canoe in there.

Hmm. I see. I guess I was thinking of the older-style Bags of Holding that could hold hundreds of cubic feet rather than the relatively-small volumes we have available now. Oh well, no carrying around transportation I guess, unless we want to invest in a Handy Haversack or two.

Crucival

2009-01-29, 01:19 AM

Whoops! Sorry, I misread your line about the hand's owner staying in the house. You meant to say that there were signs of recent habitation, not a corpse.

My bad. I've edited the post accordingly.

Another question, TequilaSunrise:

Since Variel's "Anarch of Shyr" fluff is that he's slowly tapping into the power of the Soul of Chaos, could I make an Arcana check to sense other creatures who are created/mutated/influenced by the Soul of Chaos? You would, of course, be free to make the check as difficult as you want (and, perhaps, to make it dependent on his Anarch level more than his Swordmage level), but it might be fun/useful to give him a minor "sense chaos-creature" ability attached to his skill.

Tequila Sunrise

2009-01-29, 02:24 PM

Since Variel's "Anarch of Shyr" fluff is that he's slowly tapping into the power of the Soul of Chaos, could I make an Arcana check to sense other creatures who are created/mutated/influenced by the Soul of Chaos? You would, of course, be free to make the check as difficult as you want (and, perhaps, to make it dependent on his Anarch level more than his Swordmage level), but it might be fun/useful to give him a minor "sense chaos-creature" ability attached to his skill.
Yeah, I think that's alright. I probably won't be giving you very detailed information, as many Chaos creatures are totally new to the world, but Variel is on the cutting edge of Chaos research so he'll usually be able to at least discern whether a creature is a monster of Chaos or not.

NecroRebel

2009-01-29, 11:13 PM

Grey_Wolf_c

2009-01-30, 01:21 AM

I have no problems to jumping to on the river and/or whatever will happen when we get on the boats. If no one else has any objections, I say we jump to that stage.

Once again, I will suggest that we go Reed/Dolgan and Laertius/Variel as a group in each canoe.

Well, Dolgan *is* still waiting to get his money before he starts using alchemical ingredients. You don't expect a Dwarf to work without pay, do you? :smallbiggrin:

Grey Wolf

NecroRebel

2009-01-30, 01:49 AM

You don't expect a Dwarf to work without pay, do you? :smallbiggrin:

Grey Wolf

Yes. Yes I do :smallbiggrin:

In fact, I expect a dwarf to pay the halfling for the privaledge of working for him!

Thievery to steal all of Dolgan's money - (1d20+19)[20](39)
Yoink! Not at all serious...

Crucival

2009-01-30, 03:01 AM

Grey_Wolf_c

2009-01-30, 03:12 AM

Um. Anyone else starting to freak out over the preponderance of Reed's critical successes? The guy makes a joke roll and it crits!

Edit to make this post seem useful: I'm fine with the idea of jumping ahead to canoes-repaired-and-going-mobile, even if it means auto-subtracting some cash from Variel's pocket. It's hardly like he cares about money, anyway.

Errr... you may want to quote his post. Then you'll see that he *wrote* the crit. He also has a (spoooooky) secret message. I almost laughed out loud - and I'm in the office!

Thankfully, the DC to steal gold from a dwarf is at least 40. Remember:
Dwarfs are very attached to gold. Any highwayman demanding "Your money or your life" had better bring a folding chair and packed lunch and a book to read while the debate goes on.
~Terry Pratchett, Men-at-Arms

Edit: Following this disturbing trend of making useful posts (*shudder*), I'll say that I've assumed you all pay, so I've gone ahead and added 30 gp to my sheet, and subtracted 40 gp worth of alchemical reagents.

NecroRebel

2009-01-30, 11:28 AM

Errr... you may want to quote his post. Then you'll see that he *wrote* the crit. He also has a (spoooooky) secret message. I almost laughed out loud - and I'm in the office!

And I would've gotten away with it, too, if it weren't for your meddling Pratchett :smalltongue:

Um. Anyone else starting to freak out over the preponderance of Reed's critical successes? The guy makes a joke roll and it crits!

As Grey_Wolf_c said, I actually typed out the "roll." I figured that the joke wouldn't be as funny if I rolled, say, a [roll0], so I forced the issue.

Anyway, continuing this disturbing trend of somewhat-useful posts yet further, I have now removed 10 gold from my stockpile.

Vox Clamantis

2009-01-30, 05:34 PM

I forgot to roll these in my IC post, so I'll put them here instead of double posting.

Rolls to identify the hands:

Dungeoneering: [roll0]
Arcana: [roll1]
Religion: [roll2]

Oh, and nothing personal at all Crucival. Laertius just really wouldn't go along with that sort of obviously bad plan. He's too cautious by nature.

~Gabriel

Crucival

2009-01-30, 06:22 PM

No personal offense taken. I like the idea of playing Variel as a hyper-focused sort of field scientist. Anything not directly related to uncovering new power or understanding is simply a distraction to be brushed aside. He'll rant a bit and have his feathers ruffled, and be ready to go by the time anything evil climbs out of the water.

TequilaSunrise, I jut assumed that since it's a close burst, the power just bounced harmlessly off of the water when Laertius pulled a sudden turn of the canoe.

Edit: Also, if Variel starts to get significantly obnoxious, rather than just characterful, tell me ASAP and I'll rein in his behavior. I'm still playing around with his characterization.

Vox Clamantis

2009-01-30, 08:23 PM

I forgot to roll initiative IC.

[roll0]

~Gabriel

Grey_Wolf_c

2009-01-31, 03:58 AM

I have to say, I am not sure how the area of effect powers work in the hex system. Take, for example, one of the powers I will be using in this fight: Channel Divinity: Turn Undead; It is a close burst 5, i.e. a square touching Dolgan with side lengths of five squares. But I cannot form a square in hexes. So, does it turn into a heaxgon with five squares on the side? This would be simple, but the area will be much bigger, I would think. If not, how do I shape it?

Thanks,

Grey Wolf

Vox Clamantis

2009-01-31, 07:39 AM

I would really prefer that any game mechanics stuff in the IC thread be spoilered. I'm not sure why, but it bothers me to go from reading narrative to suddenly stumbling over a block of data.

~Gabriel

Grey_Wolf_c

2009-01-31, 07:43 AM

Vox Clamantis

2009-01-31, 08:13 AM

Thanks! I hesitated for a long time before hitting the Submit button. It felt like such a trivial thing to mention.

~Gabriel

Grey_Wolf_c

2009-01-31, 08:15 AM

Thanks! I hesitated for a long time before hitting the Submit button. It felt like such a trivial thing to mention.

~Gabriel

I really hate getting my willing suspension of disbelief broken. It is only natural I would be sensitive to other's as well. Do let me know if there is anything else I can help you with.

Speaking of helping one another, since we are going into a fight, can I ask that you all make an effort to include the info somewhere? I'm the medic, so I do need to know it, but I'd rather not have to keep track of how everyone is doing.

Grey Wolf

Vox Clamantis

2009-01-31, 09:02 AM

Sure, I'll throw a tag at the bottom with HP and defenses. Although with armor, Staff of Defense, Shield, Blur, and a Cloak of Distortion, I'm hoping that damage won't be much of an issue for me...

~Gabriel

Tequila Sunrise

2009-01-31, 11:33 AM

NecroRebel

2009-01-31, 03:05 PM

*Blinks* I... got another natural 20 on a Stealth check :smallconfused: I know I had earlier said that it was like I couldn't roll badly on one, but this is rediculous!

For AoEs on hexes, I actually prefer them a bit as it means that you get more circular bursts and blasts. It's very odd under normal circumstances to have your fireballs inscribe a square, and hexes at least reduce that strangeness. They do make describing movement accurately a bit harder since you have to specify which direction left-right you're moving when you go up or down, but that's not too bad.

Vox Clamantis

2009-01-31, 03:10 PM

Hmm. I should have hit more pale guys with that Blood Pulse, but oh well. It won't make any difference in the long run, I think.

~Gabriel

Tequila Sunrise

2009-01-31, 06:16 PM

*Blinks* I... got another natural 20 on a Stealth check :smallconfused: I know I had earlier said that it was like I couldn't roll badly on one, but this is rediculous!
I'm sure eventually you'll fail a Stealth check. At the most inopportune time, if the cruel gods have anything to do with it.

Hmm. I should have hit more pale guys with that Blood Pulse, but oh well. It won't make any difference in the long run, I think.

By all means, roll attacks for the other four pale men. If it was just one or two, it probably wouldn't be worth the extra post, but this is sort of a test fight so I'd like it to be a fairly accurate gauge of what you four can do.

TS

Vox Clamantis

2009-01-31, 09:08 PM

Hm, ok. I guess I'll roll them here so as not to disrupt the IC thread.

PM1 - [roll0]
PM2 - [roll1]
PM3 - [roll2]
PM4 - [roll3]

Come on, crits!

~Gabriel

Edit: Woohoo! Crit on Pale 4 does, er, 23 damage instead of 21. :smallmad:

NecroRebel

2009-02-01, 01:02 AM

Edit: Woohoo! Crit on Pale 4 does, er, 23 damage instead of 21. :smallmad:

You have a magic implement, a Staff of Ruin +2. That's +2d10 more damage from the critical! Take your extra damage!

Also, I'm a bit disappointed that you stated your next-round actions while I was figuring out mine, as you might've hit if you had taken advantage of the combat advantage I so kindly granted you (though probably not :smallfrown:)

Oh well, at least I'm probably as attractive a target for Pale5 as you at the moment, and somewhat harder to hit too. Unfortunately, I don't have combat advantage against him, so it'll be harder for me to take him down, but I can fix that with a bit of effort.

Crucival

2009-02-01, 03:10 AM

TequilaSunrise:

Just to make sure, did you factor in the splash damage from the lightning longsword's power? The secondary attack from the Lightning Clash missed, I know, but since that first melee attack hit I can use a free action to trigger the magic weapon's daily power and blast everyone within 2 hexes with that extra d6+1 of lightning damage that I rolled.

Sorry things were so complicated. The item power doesn't work except on a hit with a melee attack, so I can't trigger it if the original attack didn't hit.

Vox Clamantis

2009-02-01, 09:36 AM

Good point about the crit!

Pale Man 4 should take an extra [roll0] damage.

~Gabriel

That roll was awesome. :smallsmile:

Grey_Wolf_c

2009-02-01, 12:23 PM

Good point about the crit!

Pale Man 4 should take an extra [bajillion] damage.

~Gabriel

That roll was awesome. :smallsmile:

Tequila, if Dolgan attacks using option #2 (Split Sky) and Pale4 is dead by then (given the massive pounding the poor thing just received), Dolgan will instead attack Pale3, shifting west 1 hex.

Also, if you could let me know which of the two options actually happened, I'll go back and add some fluff.

Grey Wolf

Edit: also, does pushing trigger the movement damage from Laertius' spell? I think it does, in which case I'm going to have fun if they are affected by the turn undead spell...

Vox Clamantis

2009-02-01, 12:37 PM

Edit: also, does pushing trigger the movement damage from Laertius' spell? I think it does, in which case I'm going to have fun if they are affected by the turn undead spell...

Any movement does. The wording of the spell is 'for every square they leave.' Teleportation would only cause 1d6, but any kind of slide/shift/push/move does 1d6 per square.

~Gabriel

Grey_Wolf_c

2009-02-01, 12:42 PM

Any movement does. The wording of the spell is 'for every square they leave.' Teleportation would only cause 1d6, but any kind of slide/shift/push/move does 1d6 per square.

~Gabriel

Then it is worth risking loosing a turn. Tequila, let me change the conditional: if Dolgan is not sure if they will be affected, he will try to turn undead. Only if he is positive that it won't affect them will he go for the HtH attack.

Grey Wolf

Tequila Sunrise

2009-02-01, 12:43 PM

I forgot about crit dice too, but I did factor in Variel's sword's lightning power. Man, this fight is just a slaughter!

Also, if you could let me know which of the two options actually happened, I'll go back and add some fluff.
The pale men are not undead, just regular ol' demons.

Edit: also, does pushing trigger the movement damage from Laertius' spell? I think it does, in which case I'm going to have fun if they are affected by the turn undead spell...
Yes, it does.

Grey_Wolf_c

2009-02-01, 12:55 PM

The pale men are not undead, just regular ol' demons.

Pity. Oh well, there will be other chances to unleash massive damage. Dolgan uses the Split sky, then. I'm rolling the 2d6 in case whomever he hits was under the blood spell:

[roll0]

Grey Wolf

Crucival

2009-02-01, 01:08 PM

NecroRebel

2009-02-01, 02:37 PM

I'm kind of annoyed that I got hit after I had used Trickster's Blade... I had hoped the AC boost from that would protect me. Unfortunately, the other one decided to flank. Jerk :smallannoyed:

Still, it looks like I punished him for it. Fairly decent damage rolls there. Still, Variel might want to change his actions if I drop the thing, probably to attack Pale5 though that is of course up to Crucival.

Crucival

2009-02-01, 03:24 PM

Grey_Wolf_c

2009-02-01, 03:42 PM

Did Reed accept the teleporting swap after he was finished attack, or reject it entirely? I couldn't tell. I just figured since the pale man was attacking you, I could get you flanking/sneak attack bonuses if we swapped and you ended up behind it.

You guys look like you're dancing a conga :smalltongue:. You do realise that, by swapping him, you've left him open to getting both flanked *and* charged by Pale6? Reed should probably just get out of there. Or take the damage - Dolgan can drop by next turn for a quick healing session.

I do have to ask, Vox: why didn't you just shift him one instead of taking an AoO? Is there an advantage to it? Or only to keep the flanking bonus? Do you get flanking bonus with ranged attacks?

Grey Wolf

NecroRebel

2009-02-01, 04:43 PM

Did Reed accept the teleporting swap after he was finished attack, or reject it entirely? I couldn't tell. I just figured since the pale man was attacking you, I could get you flanking/sneak attack bonuses if we swapped and you ended up behind it.

I wanted to accept the teleport as that'll put me where I can't be flanked if Pale2 drops, though of course I could get charged either way, and charged and flanked if Pale2 stays up. Also, I get combat advantage/sneak attack whether I'm behind or in front of it as long as somebody is flanking with me, so I got it where we were, too :smalltongue:

You guys look like you're dancing a conga :smalltongue:. You do realise that, by swapping him, you've left him open to getting both flanked *and* charged by Pale6? Reed should probably just get out of there. Or take the damage - Dolgan can drop by next turn for a quick healing session.

Pale2 will probably drop, either from my attack+sneak attack or from that and Variel's attack. If I get out of there, I would have to burn my last easy positionless sneak attack, which we might want to save a bit longer. Besides, a charge from most things aren't particularly much worse than what they could do anyway, and oftentimes better due to forcing a basic attack. I'll just want a healing word after the battle is all.

I do have to ask, Vox: why didn't you just shift him one instead of taking an AoO? Is there an advantage to it? Or only to keep the flanking bonus? Do you get flanking bonus with ranged attacks?

Grey Wolf

I had assumed he was staying put to get combat advantage from flanking the thing. He should have gotten the bonus from it AFAIK, so it's +2 hit at the cost of taking an attack. Doesn't seem too bad.

Crucival

2009-02-01, 04:46 PM

Grey_Wolf_c

2009-02-01, 04:56 PM

I thought that by switching with Reed before his turn came up, I could give him more freedom to shift around, flank, or try and leave the combat altogether, since he'd be behind the Pale Man and thus not subject to an AoO if he runs off to attack someone else.

Clearly, I was at least partly mistaken. I'd be happy to cancel that minor teleporting action.

Eh. We're wiping the floor with them, regardless. We should definitely try to coordinate better for our next fight, but it is looking fairly realistic for a first fight of a group of mostly-unknowns. I still have three healing actions ready to go off in this battle without dipping into the dailies, so if/when Reed drops by my side I can heal him up no problem.

Grey Wolf

Tequila Sunrise

2009-02-01, 05:31 PM

Complete side note:

Using Del Toro's creations from Pan's Labyrinth as demons of chaos was a GREAT idea. I was already creeped out by the various accumulating omens, but having the submerged hands actually belong to Pale Men.....wow.

I don't like to suck up to DMs, but I do like to reward good behavior, y'know?
Thanks! An occasional compliment goes a long way toward keeping a DM confident and interested in the game.

P's L is officially one of my favorite movies of all time. So sad, but so cool at the same time.

Grey_Wolf_c

2009-02-01, 05:51 PM

Tequila,

You never did say if these things are hurt extra by the radiant powers. Now that I've run out of encounter powers and will start with the at-wills, it actually becomes important because there is a definite difference in damage (1d12+10 vs 1d6+8). But if they are vulnerable, the second is probably the better choice.

Also, I have to say that this is the first time I've gone through a whole round of battle in PbP in a single day. This game really is moving forward. :smallsmile:

Grey Wolf

NecroRebel

2009-02-01, 06:24 PM

NecroRebel

2009-02-01, 06:34 PM

My rolls in the IC thread aren't working for whatever reasons, so I'll be posting them here instead.

[roll0]
[roll1]+[roll2]

Grey_Wolf_c

2009-02-01, 06:41 PM

I'm not quite sure when my turn is actually coming up. I beat you all on the initiative, so I think my actions come out before any of yours, so most of your positioning should happen after mine, so oftentimes you've not been giving me any advantage at all :smallredface:

It might be beneficial for us to have a running tally of who's turn is coming up in the future, though for this battle it certainly won't matter. We're basically destroying them.

I've been assuming that it didn't matter in which order we went, and thus that however we happened to post would just mean that the others had delayed for the first one to post. That said, if you need us to wait for you to post, do say so. So far, I have tried to use powers or move into positions that would give you combat advantage. That being so, all you need to do is state that you have delayed until the end of our turns to best use our combat advantages.

Also, since PbP tends to be slow, the fact that we are not following strict combat turns, I believe, is part of the reason why this battle is going so quickly.

Grey Wolf

(Edited for clarity)

NecroRebel

2009-02-01, 07:04 PM

I've been assuming that it didn't matter in which order we went, and thus that however we happened to post would just mean that the others had delayed for the first one to post. That said, if you need us to wait for you to post, do say so. So far, I have tried to use powers or move into positions that would give you combat advantage. That being so, all you need to do is state that you have delayed until the end of our turns to best use our combat advantages.

Also, since PbP tends to be slow, the fact that we are not following strict combat turns, I believe, is part of the reason why this battle is going so quickly.

Grey Wolf

(Edited for clarity)

I very much agree. At this rate, we'll probably have this battle done by tomorrow. I just don't know how Tequila is running the order of turns, so it may or may not matter.

I hadn't considered delaying consistently to take advantage of your moves, though. That's a very good idea that I should probably do, as it saves me some of my desperation moves (like Ferret Out Frailty, for one).

Vox Clamantis

2009-02-01, 07:08 PM

Yeah, I took the OA to gain Combat Advantage. Since my AC goes up to 32 against those, I figured I had a very small chance of getting hit. And, of course, the dice gods responded with a crit. :smallamused:

Anyway, I'm really enjoying this. We're moving more rapidly than I've ever seen PbP go, and everyone seems to be on the ball about things. Not to mention which, my concept lends itself to some cool visuals. That's always fun.

~Gabriel

Tequila Sunrise

2009-02-01, 10:05 PM

You never did say if these things are hurt extra by the radiant powers. Now that I've run out of encounter powers and will start with the at-wills, it actually becomes important because there is a definite difference in damage (1d12+10 vs 1d6+8). But if they are vulnerable, the second is probably the better choice.
Oh right, sorry, the pale men are not vulnerable to radiant.

I'm not quite sure when my turn is actually coming up. I beat you all on the initiative, so I think my actions come out before any of yours, so most of your positioning should happen after mine, so oftentimes you've not been giving me any advantage at all

It might be beneficial for us to have a running tally of who's turn is coming up in the future, though for this battle it certainly won't matter. We're basically destroying them.
For this fight I've been resolving actions in the order that you post. Normally I'd post the initiative order and resolve actions by that, but since this fight started with you all jumping the pale men as they left the river, there are only two initiatives: the PCs and then the pale men.

Yeah, I took the OA to gain Combat Advantage. Since my AC goes up to 32 against those, I figured I had a very small chance of getting hit. And, of course, the dice gods responded with a crit.
Actually your high OA AC paid off; the crit was the pale man's regular attack. You immobilized him and then stood right there next to him, so he decided that he'd rather tear a hole in your face than try to escape. :sabine:

Vox Clamantis

2009-02-01, 10:21 PM

Actually your high OA AC paid off; the crit was the pale man's regular attack. You immobilized him and then stood right there next to him, so he decided that he'd rather tear a hole in your face than try to escape. :sabine:

I stayed to provide combat advantage to the guy on the other side, but he attacked something else. Go figure.

~Gabriel

Vox Clamantis

2009-02-01, 11:13 PM

Another couple of checks to examine the things up-close and in their entirety.

Arcana - [roll0]
Dungeoneering - [roll1]
Religion - [roll2]

~Gabriel

NecroRebel

2009-02-01, 11:33 PM

I stayed to provide combat advantage to the guy on the other side, but he attacked something else. Go figure.

~Gabriel

Yeah, sorry about that. I thought that it was more likely that I could drop the other one, and as I'm the squishiest party member I felt it important to get me out of a flanked position :smallredface:

Vox Clamantis

2009-02-02, 12:29 AM

I think I'm going to have a hard time adapting to the idea that the wizard isn't squishy any more. :smalltongue:

~Gabriel

NecroRebel

2009-02-02, 12:37 AM

I think I'm going to have a hard time adapting to the idea that the wizard isn't squishy any more. :smalltongue:

~Gabriel

Remember, you burned 4 feats getting hide proficiency, specialization, and Toughness and you have the Staff of Defense feature, so both those pump up your AC significantly and you have decent Con. All that together mean that you're squishier than me. If you were an orbizard who didn't invest in armor feats, you'd have a slightly lower AC than me and possibly worse HP too.

Altogether, I'm kinda built to stay out of the fray as long as possible while dealing heavy damage, while you have a lot more staying power but not as much single-shot damage. Of course, you also have AoE powers which I lack, so your potential one-round damage is technically higher than mine as well, but practically speaking that's not quite as useful in most cases.

Vox Clamantis

2009-02-02, 01:20 AM

Survival is the ultimate damage multiplier. :smalltongue:

Anyway, Laertius wasn't an exercise in optimization, so comparison of hypothetical performance doesn't interest me.

~Gabriel

NecroRebel

2009-02-02, 01:43 AM

Survival is the ultimate damage multiplier. :smalltongue:

Anyway, Laertius wasn't an exercise in optimization, so analysis of hypothetical performance doesn't interest me.

~Gabriel

Reed should be survivable enough, but he does it by going unnoticed or by being out of melee range. That +20 Stealth modifier means that it's highly improbable that anything will spot him before he attacks, and even then I have several means of disappearing again, all of which are encounter powers.

I'm eagerly looking forward to when (if) we get to level 16, because then I can pick up Hide in Plain Sight, pick a spot in the middle of a battlefield, and become permanently invisible unless they can force me to move. At that point, I can have a 12-square reach in all directions, perpetual combat advantage due to being unseen, and they need to beat my Stealth check to even know I'm there despite getting daggers in the eye every round, and all those benefits are with an encounter power!

Edit: Hmm... I should see about picking up a Determined dagger. +Dex to attack range can't hurt. Of course, it's too pricy to grab now, but later it'd be nice.

Tequila Sunrise

2009-02-04, 11:37 AM

Sorry everyone, haven't been able to access the site since Sunday!

Crucival

2009-02-04, 11:42 AM

Me neither. Hopefully people will slowly trickle in and discover that the forums are back up. I made my inane little post just in case people have email alerts/subscriptions for our thread.

NecroRebel

2009-02-04, 12:00 PM

I actually noticed the forums were back up shortly after they were back up last night, but had nothing to say IC and was the last poster OOC, so... Yeah.

Still, I don't think we should blame anyone if they haven't posted due to the forums themselves being dead for a couple days.

Vox Clamantis

2009-02-04, 12:16 PM

I got bombarded with emails from players, reminding me to update their campaign. :smalltongue:

So I found out almost instantly that the server was back up.

~Gabriel

Grey_Wolf_c

2009-02-04, 01:05 PM

Me neither. Hopefully people will slowly trickle in and discover that the forums are back up. I made my inane little post just in case people have email alerts/subscriptions for our thread.

I don't think the subscriptions are working. I, at least, have yet to receive any alerts due to the postings in this thread. I've gotten so used to those alerts I'm not sure how good I'll be at keeping up with the game now. I'll do my best, but I'm notoriously absent-minded.

Grey Wolf

Edit: Necro's latest post reminds me: Dolgan will make no active checks on the newcomer (mostly because that will involve staring, which he is too polite to do), but his passive instincts are engaged. Particularly, P. Insight at 20. If and when she talks about her proposal, I'll also want to roll an active insight check (which I wouldn't expect to roll myself), so to save time, when the time comes, please roll it immediately for Dolgan, Tequila.

GW

Vox Clamantis

2009-02-04, 11:25 PM

I wouldn't say any of those checks involves staring. Looking, sure, but looking at somebody who calls attention to herself is natural and expected.

~Gabriel

NecroRebel

2009-02-04, 11:49 PM

Well regardless of other concerns, I don't think "Dalbert" has any real qualms about offending some random fey woman. "Rangers" aren't known for their social graces, after all :smalltongue:

Oddly enough, my knowledge rolls indicate that Reed might actually know something about this creature, which is kinda funny since most of my other knowledge rolls were abnormally low. Still, I might be able to fake being a ranger better if I can identify something natural around here... Except I rolled low on Nature. Nuts.

Vox Clamantis

2009-02-05, 01:48 AM

"Hi, I'm a ranger. Ooh look, coleus blumei! I should take a clipping!"

:smalltongue:

~Gabriel

NecroRebel

2009-02-05, 02:18 AM

"Hi, I'm a ranger. Ooh look, coleus blumei! I should take a clipping!"

:smalltongue:

~Gabriel

I... have no idea what that is :smallredface:

Also, wikipedia has no article on it, so maybe you misspelled it? I'm confused.

In any case, I've claimed that Reed is from out of the western mountains, wherever those are, so I can just claim unfamiliarity with the flora and fauna of the region we are in now due to focus on the stuff he supposedly grew up around. My Bluff checks will get me through where my Knowledge checks fail! I declare it!

Bluff to make you guys believe me - (1d20+14)[1](15)

...Dang. :smalltongue:

Grey_Wolf_c

2009-02-05, 02:56 AM

I... have no idea what that is :smallredface:

Also, wikipedia has no article on it, so maybe you misspelled it? I'm confused.

Google popped out an article on how to grow those for smoking and achieving psychedelic experiences.

I'm officially distubed. :smalleek:

:smalltongue:

Grey Wolf

Vox Clamantis

2009-02-05, 03:19 AM

Grey_Wolf_c

2009-02-05, 03:24 AM

Coleus blumei is a red and green plant that's pretty popular during the Christmas season. :smallwink:

And google just came up with a whole bunch of hits using my spelling, so I don't know what's going on there...

~Gabriel

I would've used Amanita phalloides (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Death_cap) myself, for brand recognition. "ooooh. We should make an omelet with these white mushrooms"

Grey Wolf

Crucival

2009-02-06, 02:46 AM

Funny, spouting obscure latin names for things strikes me as the sort of thing Variel would do....

Tequila Sunrise

2009-02-06, 06:44 PM

Out of curiosity, does anyone play Magic: the Addiction?

Grey_Wolf_c

2009-02-06, 07:28 PM

Out of curiosity, does anyone play Magic: the Addiction?

Ummm... never heard of it, and google only throws up a page related to Magic: The Gathering. Are you refering to that? If so, I do play, and used to own several decks, but sold them long ago. These days, I help one of my younger cousins with their deck building and strategy.

By the way, unless Tequila objects, everyon knows that in dwarven religion there is only three male Dwarven gods (the Sultan in the Sky: Sultan of the gods, god of hierarchy, Moradin: god of forging and battle and a "evil dwarf god" (name pending): god of greed). There is many dwarven goddesses, though (how many would require a good religion check... and for me to figure out the details). Most would be married to the Sultan in the Sky, and cover the whole range of classic portafolios (home & buildings, family & love, life & nature - that would be Iðunn -, commerce, etc.).

Grey Wolf

NecroRebel

2009-02-06, 08:15 PM

Out of curiosity, does anyone play Magic: the Addiction?

I'm guessing you drew the lobster-like creatures' appearance from M:tG. I used to play, but haven't in years. Now that you say that, I will suspect that they are based off of... Um... The old lobster-folk that were dropped. Homirids! That's it! Homirids!

...I had to look up the Old Fogey as a reference for their name :smalltongue:

Tequila Sunrise

2009-02-06, 08:43 PM

Yeah, I mean Magic: the Gathering. I haven't played or bought cards in about seven years; it was about that time that I stopped getting an allowance and had to make my own money. Go figure! :smallwink: Anyway, I've recently gotten an itch to play again. Only problem is I don't know anyone immediately accessible who plays. Oh and I'm broke, so if I play anytime in the near future it'll be with photoshopped proxies, and some players are leery about that. Mountains to climb and oceans to cross.

By the way, unless Tequila objects, everyone knows that in dwarven religion there are only three male Dwarven gods (the Sultan in the Sky: Sultan of the gods, god of hierarchy, Moradin: god of forging and battle and a "evil dwarf god" (name pending): god of greed). There is many dwarven goddesses, though (how many would require a good religion check... and for me to figure out the details). Most would be married to the Sultan in the Sky, and cover the whole range of classic portafolios (home & buildings, family & love, life & nature - that would be Iðunn -, commerce, etc.).
Sounds good to me.

PS: The lobster men were just my way of refluffing another MM race. They're not inspired by anything in particular.

Vox Clamantis

2009-02-10, 09:19 PM

So can I use Shield or Staff of Defense retroactively (to say "that missed me") or should I declare beforehand that I'm going to use them? Since they're both encounter interrupts, I'd be fine if you just assumed that I'll use them on the first attacks that they would let me avoid.

Shield is +4 to AC and Reflex.

Staff of Defense is +4 against any one attack (any defense).

Should we just say that I'll use Staff of Defense on the first attack that hits me by a margin of 4 or less, and Shield on the next one after that?

~Gabriel

Grey_Wolf_c

2009-02-12, 03:14 AM

Tequila, do we need to post in initiative order (or close enough, Reed and Variel, I imagine, could switch around)?

Thanks,

Grey Wolf

Tequila Sunrise

2009-02-12, 11:46 AM

Should we just say that I'll use Staff of Defense on the first attack that hits me by a margin of 4 or less, and Shield on the next one after that?
Sounds good to me. But I may forget, so if you get hit with an attack and I don't write something about defensive magic, remind me.

Tequila, do we need to post in initiative order (or close enough, Reed and Variel, I imagine, could switch around)?
Yes, it is a bit easier for me if you post in initiative order.

Tequila Sunrise

2009-02-12, 12:17 PM

Oh, and I think someone asked whether you've gotten a 5 minute rest, and the answer is yes. Delayed neurons on my part. :smallredface:

NecroRebel

2009-02-12, 01:00 PM

Yes, it is a bit easier for me if you post in initiative order.

The problem with this is that it oftentimes makes people not post when they otherwise would, so it slows down combat significantly :smallfrown: Hopefully that won't be a problem with this group, though, considering how quickly we got through the last combat.

I'll probably post Reed's next action before I go to class regardless of whether Grey_Wolf_c has posted, as it's unlikely that Dolgan will end up killing any of the Dazed lobsters, and if he does I'll just end up hitting the other one. I just noticed today that Dazed targets grant combat advantage to everyone! Isn't that something? :smallamused:

Grey_Wolf_c

2009-02-12, 01:10 PM

The problem with this is that it oftentimes makes people not post when they otherwise would, so it slows down combat significantly :smallfrown: Hopefully that won't be a problem with this group, though, considering how quickly we got through the last combat.

I'll probably post Reed's next action before I go to class regardless of whether Grey_Wolf_c has posted, as it's unlikely that Dolgan will end up killing any of the Dazed lobsters, and if he does I'll just end up hitting the other one. I just noticed today that Dazed targets grant combat advantage to everyone! Isn't that something? :smallamused:

I'm posting right now. Sorry for the delay. Very busy day at work, only just got out.

Grey Wolf

Edit: Critical (the feat deadly axe gives Dolgan critical range of 19-20). Reed may need to find a new target :smallbiggrin: J/k - I probably put it into bloodied, but I doubt it was enough to kill it.

NecroRebel

2009-02-12, 01:40 PM

I'm posting right now. Sorry for the delay. Very busy day at work, only just got out.

It wasn't much of a delay... I just have to leave for class in another half-hour and didn't want to delay the game by three hours myself if I didn't post beforehand :smallsmile:

Edit: Critical (the feat deadly axe gives Dolgan critical range of 19-20). Reed may need to find a new target :smallbiggrin: J/k - I probably put it into bloodied, but I doubt it was enough to kill it.

And yet you still only deal 7 more damage than my at-will power :smalltongue: That's only one more than my average with that power, too... It's seems strange that one of my at-wills is my second-most damaging attack, and that by only 1 average.

Grey_Wolf_c

2009-02-12, 01:49 PM

And yet you still only deal 7 more damage than my at-will power :smalltongue: That's only one more than my average with that power, too... It's seems strange that one of my at-wills is my second-most damaging attack, and that by only 1 average.

Err... 17, since I also gave it at least one turn of ongoing 10 damage. More if it fails its saving throw. And I also cured Variel and dropped the thing prone, making it either attack with -2, or spend its turn getting up (daze only allows one or the other). A very succesful attack, I have to say.:smalltongue:

And most of the damage Reed does comes from the backstab, rather than the attack itself. Which is why I made sure I have plenty of powers that make enemies give combat advantage (my favourite, a daily that lasts all the encounter, and marks enemies one at a time. Reed is going to adore that one, I suspect)

Grey Wolf

NecroRebel

2009-02-12, 01:57 PM

Err... 17, since I also gave it at least one turn of ongoing 10 damage. More if it fails its saving throw. And I also cured Variel and dropped the thing prone, making it either attack with -2, or spend its turn getting up (daze only allows one or the other). A very succesful attack, I have to say.:smalltongue:

Bah. Semantics... Or something :smallbiggrin:

And all the damage Reed does comes from the backstab, rather than the attack itself. Which is why I made sure I have plenty of powers that make enemies give combat advantage (my favourite, a daily that lasts all the encounter, and marks enemies one at a time. Reed is going to adore that one, I suspect)

I need to hit with a power to backstab, so I could argue that my backstab damage is simply part of the attack.

I will like Spiritual Weapon during the battles where you use it, of course, though hopefully those fights won't last long. After all, I'll be gaining sneak attack damage every round while retaining my range advantage, something that is a bit tricky for me to manage on my own.

Vox Clamantis

2009-02-12, 03:05 PM

Grey_Wolf_c

2009-02-12, 03:28 PM

The strictly enforced party roles of 4e dictate that rogues do more damage. This whole discussion is a bit surreal.

~Gabriel

P.S. And I just hit six targets for 36 damage each. :smallbiggrin:

P.P.S. With an Encounter power.

The discusion was very tongue-in-cheek (thus, emoticons) over the fact that Reed had almost done as much damage with an at-will as Dolgan with a critical. Just a bit of fun.

Oh, and I think I'll wait until the enemies actually, you know, act before posting my next action. I suspect I'll hit the one that escaped your power in the first round with my encounter that will send it tumbling down the river, but we shall see. I may hit them all with my burst attack so Reed can continue to have fun with combat advantage.

Grey Wolf

Vox Clamantis

2009-02-12, 03:39 PM

Oh, and I think I'll wait until the enemies actually, you know, act before posting my next action.

In my case, it doesn't really matter what they do. Burst 3 is big enough to get all of them if they attack at range or move closer, which are really their only options, being dazed and all.

Unless Tequila is metagaming, that is. :smalltongue: In that case they'll all sprint out of my AoE, never to bunch together again.

~Gabriel

Grey_Wolf_c

2009-02-12, 03:59 PM

In my case, it doesn't really matter what they do. Burst 3 is big enough to get all of them if they attack at range or move closer, which are really their only options, being dazed and all.

Unless Tequila is metagaming, that is. :smalltongue: In that case they'll all sprint out of my AoE, never to bunch together again.

~Gabriel

Oh, I wasn't saying it was bad that you had posted again. I was just letting y'all know not to expect me to post again. I'm in melêe, so what the enemy does (particularly the non-dazed one) is of close interest to me.

Hopefully Tequile won't metagame, but even if he does, can those things get out of the way quickly enough? By the underwater rules, they will have to spend most of their movement just staying where they are. I suppose that they could let themselves be dragged by the current, but they are supposed to be guarding the hole.

Ummm... I wonder how those rules about loosing movement mesh with being prone...

Grey Wolf

Vox Clamantis

2009-02-12, 04:11 PM

Ummm... I wonder how those rules about loosing movement mesh with being prone...

Funny, I was just wondering how to rule the 'prone' position on a creature that's swimming or flying.

~Gabriel

Grey_Wolf_c

2009-02-12, 04:23 PM

Funny, I was just wondering how to rule the 'prone' position on a creature that's swimming or flying.

~Gabriel

Oh, flying's contemplated in the prone rules: You’re lying on the ground. (If you’re flying, you safely descend a distance equal to your fly speed. If you don’t reach the ground, you fall.)

Not a peep about swimming, though. Speaking of which, a round is still about 6 seconds, right? So the fights would take a couple of minutes, tops. I'm just not looking forward to worrying about how much time the gillyweed lasts, and if I can ignore battle length, all the better.

Grey Wolf

Tequila Sunrise

2009-02-12, 04:36 PM

NecroRebel

2009-02-14, 12:42 AM

I suspect that part of the reason these battles have been so easy for us is because the creatures had relatively weak defenses - I landed a blow on a 5, albeit with combat advantage - and we have relatively strong attack. I'm still not entirely sure what the +2 unnamed bonus to attack rolls you've given us is supposed to compensate for, so that of course alters the attack/defense balance that is built into the monster stats.

Um. Looking through the Monster Manual, my character at least hits all the level 11 non-soldier standard and minion enemies but 2 on a 2 or better if I have combat advantage, which I usually will due to it being pretty essential for my combat role. Everyone else will be hitting on an 8 most of the time, too, from what I can tell.

Further, everyone but me has boosted defenses pretty heavily. Those same level 11 monsters tend to have +15-18 to hit AC, but we have 27-31 AC, so they hit less than they should unless they attack me, which they often can't due to marks, my standoffish combat style, my semi-constant attemps to hide, or me staying behind the defenders. All this combines to make their attacks significantly weaker than they probably would be normally.

Finally, the first battle I get the impression that you had bad luck on attack rolls and sent fragile enemies against us, while for the second half the enemies didn't attack us at all until we had cut the other half down. Due to our strong offensive capabilities, the former was ineffectual, while the second was somewhat-bad tactics, particularly since they were all bunched up for our AoEs.

As a solution to the difficulty with monster difficulty, I would recommend using Elites and Solos and/or increasing encounter level by 2 to 5. Because of the aforementioned houseruled +2 attack bonus, we're significantly more able to hit monsters and thus more dangerous than more standard characters of our level, so we can deal with more dangerous enemies ourselves.

Vox Clamantis

2009-02-14, 02:28 AM

I prefer 'interesting' to 'challenging'. Mostly because challenge is such a hard thing to define. I mean, the PCs are more or less expected to win. Challenge becomes a matter of 'how much damage do they take first/how long does it take.' In light of that, I think interesting is a much more achievable goal.
I mean, interesting just requires variation and good storytelling.

So far, I've been interested. Good enough for me.

My 2 silver.

~Gabriel

Tequila Sunrise

2009-02-15, 10:59 AM

NecroRebel

2009-02-15, 07:02 PM

The +2 unnamed bonus is to compensate for the fact that most PC stats don't scale as fast as monster stats. The golden rule for monster stats is +1 per level, but the only PC stat that can match that pace is heavy armor AC. I don't know why the designers wanted PCs to become relatively worse as they gain levels, but I don't want to run epic fights that go like "monster hits! PC misses! monster hits! PC misses!..." Especially not a pbp game.

Fair enough, but I think that you're overcompensating a bit. PCs are expected to get +1/2 levels, +1/8 levels from stat boosts, +1/5 levels from enhancement bonuses, and another +1/21 levels from more stat boosts. That comes out to +733/840, or .8726190476/level. Call it 1/level and you wouldn't be too far off; with +2 extra at level 11, we're about 20.8% ahead of the expected curve by my math.

...Actually, I'm more than a little surprised that it's that close to even :smalleek:

Edit: Wait, no, that's not quite right. Stat boost gains aren't quite an even 2/8 levels even disregarding the tier changes. So it should be +3/28 rather than 1/8, changing the gain per level to .8547619048.

Also, your armor class increase values are mistaken. Heavy armor wearers' armor class caps out at +1/2 levels, +1/5 enhancement, and +3/15 masterwork for .9/level, while light armor gets +1/2 levels, +1/5 enhancement, +1/15 masterwork, +3/28 stat boosts, and +1/21 stat boosts, for .9214285714/level. Light armor actually scales up faster than heavy.

Incidentally, it's been shown that the highest attainable armor class in core is 51, which is possible only through a Hide-wearing and specializing Wizard. Plate and heavy shield users cap out at 50.

...Wow, I'm really being a geek today, aren't I? :smalltongue:

Tequila Sunrise

2009-02-15, 09:51 PM

...Wow, I'm really being a geek today, aren't I? :smalltongue:
I'm good with math, but your fractions make my head hurt. :smallwink: Here's how I gauge typical PC stat increases (per tier):

Light AC
+5 level
+2 enhancement
+1 masterwork
+1.5 stat
=9.5 per tier

Heavy AC
+5 level
+2 enhancement
+3 masterwork
=10 per tier

(I know it's possible for a hide-wearer to out-AC a plate-wearer, but I'm only concerned with stat advancement.)

All Attacks
+5 level
+2 enhancement
+1.5 stat
=8.5 per tier

So over thirty levels, PC attacks lose 4.5 bonuses compared to monster defenses. That's why I'm giving unnamed bonuses at 6th, 11th, 16th, 21st and 26th. It does overcompensate by half a bonus, but I'd rather favor you four than the monsters.

All this math is also why I think the NAD booster feats (iron will, great fort, lightning reflexes) and the armor spec feats are broken, because they change 4e's careful balance of bonuses. I won't ban them though, because at least they're one-purchase-only deals.

TS

Crucival

2009-02-17, 02:28 PM

Grey_Wolf_c

2009-02-17, 02:44 PM

Dude, living lair!

Seriously, it's kind of Borg-like, except organic instead of cybernetic. Hybernating drone beasts, melded into the walls, with central hearts...

Also, as far as my 2 cp goes on the bonus-crunching, I'm fine with hitting more often. 4e gives a LOT of hp to any monster that's not a minion, and so the more often we hit, the better.

*shudders at memories of his first encounter with a rat swarm in 4e. Takes half damage from everything, has like 40 hp, and never quite does enough damage to be threatening until you ignore them for too long and realize you're bloodied*

It reminds me of an old RPG game, where you went into a giant ant colony and there were veins along the walls you could burst (and indeed had to, to advance). Same with one of the dungeons of Phantasy Star IV (Grubek tower, IIRC). While this seems to be going in the same general direction, I think I'll wait for the checks to resolve before I start making deductions.

And I agree with the general feeling - we've been hitting pretty much every turn and it still takes three-four turn to drop each enemy - burst attacks included. We've been using, waht, about 4 healing surges per fight? That sounds about right, for the initial skirmishes.

Grey Wolf

Crucival

2009-02-19, 03:18 AM

Let's hope 22 is a success. Otherwise this skill challenge will be over with surprisingly quickly....*fingercross*

Grey_Wolf_c

2009-02-19, 03:22 AM

Let's hope 22 is a success. Otherwise this skill challenge will be over with surprisingly quickly....*fingercross*

Yeah, sorry for the crappy rolls.

Maybe it is a success for cutting throats, but not for arcana? We don't have the huge bonuses to athletics that you two have for arcana.

Edit: and because that sound a little too meta-game-y, also because it's probably easier to cut throats than to calm demonic eggs with non-demonic blood...

Grey Wolf

Crucival

2009-02-19, 12:17 PM

Well, TS has shown that he's pretty fair with game mechanics. Even if we fail, he'll probably come up with some formula for deciding how many we managed to kill before we failed, so the resulting battle will at least be influenced by our actions.

Edit: Yay, victory!

Also Edit: If we have another downtime that lasts more than 24 hours, I think that'd be a good indication that it's time to move this game to mythweavers. Would everyone else agree?

Tequila Sunrise

2009-02-24, 07:14 AM

Well it seems a bit odd, but I can't find anything in the rules that excludes skill challenges from contributing to milestones. In the future I think I'm going to let you use action points in skill challenges to ignore a failure, and possibly use daily powers in certain challenges. I think that'll make things a bit more interesting.

Variel's skill checks don't reveal anything specific, but he guesses that using lightning against the big demon would probably not be effective. At all. The heart-proto-demons look like they'll come apart with one good hit. Or possibly in a strong current.

I hate to pause just before the big fight, but I have to leave home for a couple days. I'm hoping I'll be able to post tomorrow evening, but if not I'll be able to on Thursday.

EDIT: I wouldn't mind moving to another site at all, but myth weavers seems to have quite a bit of downtime too. But maybe I just visit at the wrong times; I don't go there very often.

Vox Clamantis

2009-02-27, 01:46 AM

Grey_Wolf_c

2009-02-27, 05:16 AM

(Not sure whether I roll once for the whole burst, or once per target)

In 4E, you only roll damage once per attack, even if you hit multiple targets. They may be hurt by different amounts, but only once you take into account critical rolls, vulnerabilities, resistances, etc.

Hope that helps,

Grey Wolf

Tequila Sunrise

2009-02-27, 10:34 AM

I don't mean to nag, but could Laertius have used Shield or Staff of Defense to protect himself against the demon attacks so far? I'd like to get some use out of them, if possible. :smalltongue:

~Gabriel

Oops, I completely forgot about your AC tricks. Yes, either one would prevent the lobster attack. I'll mark off your staff power used for the encounter.

TS

NecroRebel

2009-02-27, 11:27 AM

Grey_Wolf_c

2009-02-27, 11:38 AM

Um. I can't quite tell from the flavor post, and it's going to be important for my turn once it comes up, so I feel I should ask: did the demon save vs. Easy Target? It matters because if it did, I have no CA, but if it didn't, I won't have to use any of my other ranged CA tricks.

I think it is clear that you did hit, only that thing has regeneration. Depending on how my attacks go, I may use my spiritual weapon anyway, though.

Grey Wolf

NecroRebel

2009-02-27, 11:53 AM

I think it is clear that you did hit, only that thing has regeneration. Depending on how my attacks go, I may use my spiritual weapon anyway, though.

Grey Wolf

Yeah, it probably does have regeneration, but the wound in its leg healing could also mean that it isn't slowed anymore, and if it isn't slowed anymore than Easy Target no longer grants me CA. And since more than half of my damage per round hinges on whether or not I have CA, it's something important for me to know :smallsmile:

Grey_Wolf_c

2009-02-27, 01:01 PM

Yeah, it probably does have regeneration, but the wound in its leg healing could also mean that it isn't slowed anymore, and if it isn't slowed anymore than Easy Target no longer grants me CA. And since more than half of my damage per round hinges on whether or not I have CA, it's something important for me to know :smallsmile:

Oh, I see what you mean: it is not clear if the demon saved against your ongoing effect. And I agree, I cannot tell either.

Speaking of ongoing effects, my rolls were not that clear, so I'm going to do a list of damages:

Demon gets hit with critical for 34
Demon becomes vulnerable to Dolgan's damage until he saves
Demon gets ongoing 10 damage from Dolgan until he saves. I looked through the PHB and didn't find anything about exceptions to vulnerability for ongoing damage, so I think that would be 15 ongoing at least the first turn.
Demon probably was hit by extra attack for 22
Every other demon may or may not have been hit for 17
Everyone hit by the last attack are stunned

I am not terribly sure about the whole vulnerability+ongoing. If it had been "vulnerability to radiant" it would be clear, since every turn is radiant ongoing damage. But it is "vulnerability to Dolgan's damage", which muddies the water. I'd like an official ruling one way or the other for future occasions - although I hope it does become 15 (until he saves), because that's a very nice combo (and since it is created by a daily power + 1 action point, it's not like I'm going to be using it in every fight).

Grey Wolf

Edit: by the way, looking at the map, Lob 2 seems to be *inside* a wall. is it actually stuck to the wall (like the other's we've been killing), it's in a niche, or does it look like a passage?

GW

Tequila Sunrise

2009-02-27, 03:40 PM

The demon is still slowed and CA-generous; I could have made that clearer.

Edit: by the way, looking at the map, Lob 2 seems to be *inside* a wall. is it actually stuck to the wall (like the other's we've been killing), it's in a niche, or does it look like a passage?

GW
Lob2 is in its resting-niche in the wall. I'll read up on the vulnerability issue.

Tequila Sunrise

2009-02-27, 04:13 PM

The Vulnerability description doesn't have exceptions, so I'm ruling that ongoing damage is increased by vulnerability. It makes sense if you think about the reverse situation; if you dealt ongoing fire damage to a devil with fire resistance, it would make sense to reduce each round's damage.

Unfortunately, you made a little mistake: Radiant Action requires a foe within 5 hexes of you so you'll have to either move, save your action point or waste Radiant Action.

Grey_Wolf_c

2009-02-27, 04:18 PM

Unfortunately, you made a little mistake: Radiant Action requires a foe within 5 hexes of you so you'll have to either move, save your action point or waste Radiant Action.

Ummm... but the first thing I had Dorgan do was move close enough to the demon. Northwest->West->SouthWest->Southwest, that would put him 2 west from the heart, and 5 east from the demon. Am I counting wrong?:smallfrown:

Grey Wolf

Crucival

2009-02-27, 08:40 PM

In 4E, you only roll damage once per attack, even if you hit multiple targets. They may be hurt by different amounts, but only once you take into account critical rolls, vulnerabilities, resistances, etc.

Hope that helps,

Grey Wolf

Sorry, I was asking about to-hit rolls. Though good to know about the damage, too. Sometimes you roll one attack roll for a burst and use it, other times you roll for each creature in the burst. Or am I wrong?

Vox Clamantis

2009-02-27, 09:14 PM

Sorry, I was asking about to-hit rolls. Though good to know about the damage, too. Sometimes you roll one attack roll for a burst and use it, other times you roll for each creature in the burst. Or am I wrong?

You always roll to-hit every creature.

~Gabriel

Grey_Wolf_c

2009-02-28, 11:50 AM

Tequila: the demon didn't save any of the effects on it this turn? (IIRC: slow/combat advantage from Reed; ongoing 10 damage; vulnerable 5 to Dolgan's damage). I'm not complaining about our luck, just wondering - particularly since Reed's attacks are very much dependant on his effect. Also, that thing is not yet bloodied?

Everyone else: it seems 14 force damage is a "small wound". Not sure if that is compared to the 36 damage from Reed and the 71 damage from Dolgan, or if it is a subtle clue that it is resistant to force damage. Variel may want to hold another turn before going into the electrical field (maybe kill the heart in the meantime?), although we are doing well health-wise, so not a big issue if you charge into the field. I'm a tad worried that the big demon has absorbed 120 damage without complaining, but otherwise we seem to be doing well.

Grey Wolf

Tequila Sunrise

2009-02-28, 04:50 PM

NecroRebel

2009-02-28, 05:13 PM

The big guy is still an easy target and still taking ongoing damage; I've been having horrible luck with saves. Describing the force effect as a small cut was just me changing pace from a near hit. None of the demons are bloodied yet; the big guy's wounds continue to slowly close.

It might be helpful if you just listed what conditions a target was suffering from in your DMPosts. It is fairly important for us to know to determine our tactics, IIRC we're supposed to be able to tell by RAW, and then we wouldn't have to keep asking :smallsmile:

Vox Clamantis

2009-03-01, 03:25 AM

The dice gods love me. I rolled maximum damage on the Color Spray, crit on a Lobster, and rolled 17 for additional damage from the crit. I knew I should have used Bolstering Blood on Color Spray!

~Gabriel

Vox Clamantis

2009-03-01, 05:23 AM

Attack roll against Variel, if necessary...

[roll0] vs Will

~Gabriel :smalleek:

Vox Clamantis

2009-03-01, 07:26 AM

Given that everything is stunned, anyone wanting to move forward could delay until after my turn...

~Gabriel

Crucival

2009-03-01, 02:43 PM

Grey_Wolf_c

2009-03-01, 02:56 PM

...well, I'd love to retcon my behavior to avoid hurting Variel if at all possible. >_>

Also, when this battle is over, TS, could you explain your house rules with regard to preparing/retraining powers? I'm finding that Variel has a few less useful abilities I might want to swap out, and I remember you mentioning that this campaign did things a bit differently.

IIRC, the idea was that any character could follow the wizard's spellbook rules (minus the extra power per level, I would imagine). So, instead of swapping out powers, you write them down, and every morning you choose which powers you want to have ready for the day. The downside is, of course, that you cannot swap powers at level up, but Tequila said he would be giving us plenty of scrolls of training or whatever, so we would have a choice to make. I'm still mulling it over, myself. But then, I rather like how 4E has implemented the encounter/daily thing, and feel the wizard's system is there mostly for old time's sake and flavour. When we do level up, for example, I'm probably going to drop bless, since we don't seem to need the +1 to hit, and take something else.

Grey Wolf

Vox Clamantis

2009-03-01, 04:07 PM

This is a weird situation. I've already rolled for my turn, but I expected Variel to kill the last heart demon before running into melee next turn.

So...may I change my actions for the round, with the understanding that I'm doing so to avoid dazing/damaging Variel rather than to get a free reroll (since I actually rolled pretty well)?

~Gabriel

Grey_Wolf_c

2009-03-02, 11:14 AM

I'm still slightly confused by the hex maps, but isn't what you have drawn a close blast 3? I.e. 3 hexes on the side? A close blast 5 would have 5 hexes on the side, and basically fill the entire cavern west of Laertius. Which at this point would hurt us more than it would hurt them, so as the party's medic I'm happy with him changing actions regardless.

Also, what is our glass cannon doing charging into melee? And into an electric field?

Grey Wolf

NecroRebel

2009-03-02, 11:38 AM

Grey_Wolf_c

2009-03-02, 11:47 AM

As far as I can tell, I'm outside the electric field, and I'm charging into melee with another artillery-type. I'm banking on my OAs being significantly better than theirs, particularly since I get the big pluses to my OA AC from Artful Dodging and Halflingness. That effectively neuters that lobster so it cannot make ranged attacks without taking OAs from me, it is probably less effective in melee (it might not even get that nasty "-2 attacks and daze" effect), and doesn't actually hinder my ability to hit the big one.

Besides, it's not like I'm too glass-like. I'm roughly as durable as a normal level 11 character; it's just that everyone else in the party is abnormally resistant to attacks.

OK, sounds reasonable (I was just exagerating for effect :smallwink:). Reed is, however, inside the field: it extends three hexes from the demon. Check to the south-east: you can just make out some of the green dots under the AoE. Still, the field may not be that bad, and Dolgan can heal two people per turn, just not for very long. Reed can always disengage, if it gets too expensive to stay there.

Grey Wolf

NecroRebel

2009-03-02, 05:43 PM

OK, sounds reasonable (I was just exagerating for effect :smallwink:). Reed is, however, inside the field: it extends three hexes from the demon. Check to the south-east: you can just make out some of the green dots under the AoE. Still, the field may not be that bad, and Dolgan can heal two people per turn, just not for very long. Reed can always disengage, if it gets too expensive to stay there.

Grey Wolf

I don't think that's the thing's aura... I think that's supposed to represent the coins and such that are scattered about the chamber floor. Further, TS specifically described the water within three meters of it as laced with lightning, which works out to about 2 squares under normal circumstances, which seems to correspond to 2 hexes under the rules we're using.

...Actually, I'm confused as to what size the hexes are. If the big demon is Large-sized, it would be a 2x2 square normally, and here it's a large hex 2 hexes on a side. However, TS also claimed that the AoE on the map, which is 3 hexes on a side, is a blast 5, which would imply that a blast is an area 5 across at the largest, which would imply that all areas are defined by their largest dimension, which would imply that the big demon is Huge. So, either hexes and squares don't correspond 1-to-1 like I had thought, TS made a mistake in the blast area, or a combination of the two.

Vox Clamantis

2009-03-02, 06:01 PM

I don't think distances matter all that much. I, for one, am totally content with having Tequila just eyeball the distances.

If I'm allowed to redo my action, Laertius will use Spectral Ram on the big demon and sustain Mordenkainen's Sword.

~Gabrie

Tequila Sunrise

2009-03-02, 11:15 PM

Also, when this battle is over, TS, could you explain your house rules with regard to preparing/retraining powers? I'm finding that Variel has a few less useful abilities I might want to swap out, and I remember you mentioning that this campaign did things a bit differently.
Grey Wolf covered it; the Power Prep rule is optional for each character. I made it because I love the concept of a high level wizard having access to a library of spells, and RAW doesn't allow that potential. You can have a library of rituals by RAW, but it just doesn't complete the concept. This is how I think of it: if you can cast magic missile, and can swap spells around every morning, you're a wizard. If you can cast magic missile, but can't swap spells around every morning, you're a sorcerer.

Anyway, I give every class the option to use the Power Prep rule to be fair to everyone, but also because prayer libraries and martial libraries have the potential to be cool too. If anyone wants to opt to use this option by the end of the fight, I can drop some power books into that big pile of loot.

So...may I change my actions for the round, with the understanding that I'm doing so to avoid dazing/damaging Variel rather than to get a free reroll (since I actually rolled pretty well)?
Go for it.

I'm still slightly confused by the hex maps, but isn't what you have drawn a close blast 3? I.e. 3 hexes on the side? A close blast 5 would have 5 hexes on the side, and basically fill the entire cavern west of Laertius.
I've been doing blasts a little differently. Instead of 5 hexes per side, I've been doing 5 hex diameters because it looks more appropriate. Though to be honest, I haven't counted number of hexes vs. number of squares.

Btw, if any of you are ever in a situation where you could save an ally from an AoE power by simply reducing its area, go ahead. For example if Laertius wants to hit a flanked foe with a fireball, he could reduce it to burst 0 so that only the foe's square would be hit. Because it's a spell, not a grenade.

Besides, it's not like I'm too glass-like. I'm roughly as durable as a normal level 11 character; it's just that everyone else in the party is abnormally resistant to attacks.
No friggin' kidding! It's almost like I'm DMing for a party of defenders.

Reed is, however, inside the field: it extends three hexes from the demon.
The aura is only 2 hexes. Sorry I've been playing vague and loose with distances. From now on, one hex will be two meters. If anyone has a doesn't know the metric system, I'll be happy to explain it. No I'm not European, I just like simple and logical systems. :smallsmile:

...Actually, I'm confused as to what size the hexes are. If the big demon is Large-sized, it would be a 2x2 square normally, and here it's a large hex 2 hexes on a side.
The demon is Large; it looks bigger because there's no neat way to group four hexes together. So Large creatures have a 3 hex diameter, Huge creatures have a 5 hex diameter, etc.

TS

Vox Clamantis

2009-03-03, 12:07 AM

I accidentally posted here instead of in the IC thread. I'm really spaced out at the moment...sleep deprived.

~Gabriel

NecroRebel

2009-03-03, 12:24 AM

I'm tempted to ask to replace Gap in the Armor, my level 10 utility, with something else, but I have no idea what. I don't really need another +2 to hit since I already seem to hit ~80% of the time or better, and 95% on many things. Shadow Stride would be good if it functioned off of concealment, but as written it only lets you rehide if you have cover, which I can't provide myself. And Peripheral Concealment would be another standard-action CA granter, but then again I already have 3 available as encounter powers from my armor and Bluff skill, so I'm not sure that would be helpful either :smallsigh:

I wanna be level 16 so I can be invisible all encounter every encounter, with relatively few limits :smallfrown:

Well, at this point anyway I'd rather just get my hands on a Determined dagger to extend my combat range than any skill tomes or whatnot. It would push my range out to 18 from 12 now, though I'd probably still try to finish enemies with my current magic dagger. Free concealment is quite nice, particularly with all the other fun stuff I've got that can trigger off it.

...Crap, I just realized that I didn't actually hit the heart with my Blackshroud Dagger. I hit it with a mundane one, so no bonus from that :smallfrown: If I had realized, I would've used From the Shadows on it so I could hide afterwards. Doesn't actually matter too much anyway (I hope).

Crucival

2009-03-03, 12:38 PM

First off, a few IC-related things:

Did the Demon take the 8 force damage from moving while under the effects of Variel's Spikes of Agony power? You said it moved painfully, but I figured I'd make sure.

Also, since it made an attack that does not include Variel as a target, should I post an Aegis of Assault tele-slice?

On to the OOC:
I mostly was asking about retraining because, well, blastback swipe and glamor blade aren't as good as they sound. And, well, burning blade is okay, but I'm not sure.

I'm looking forward to Variel being able to analyze his enemies and then pick a series of elemental attacks specifically designed to exploit their vulnerabilities. THe level 12 utility power works towards this--+1d12 lightning, cold, or fire damage for -2 to hit for the rest of the encounter unless he ends it with a minor action. Also, the double aegis feat. Two marks at once!!!

Finally, Vox_Clamantis, Laertius might want to consider the War Wizardry paragon feat from the FR players' guide. It gives -5 to hit allies and half damage to hit allies inside any spells that you cast. Somehow, I can totally see Laertius being able to thread a needle...with a fireball.

Vox Clamantis

2009-03-03, 02:11 PM

Finally, Vox_Clamantis, Laertius might want to consider the War Wizardry paragon feat from the FR players' guide. It gives -5 to hit allies and half damage to hit allies inside any spells that you cast. Somehow, I can totally see Laertius being able to thread a needle...with a fireball.

Oh ya, it's definitely on my shopping list.

~Gabriel

Tequila Sunrise

2009-03-03, 02:13 PM

Also, since it made an attack that does not include Variel as a target, should I post an Aegis of Assault tele-slice?
The big guy missed both attacks, so no. (It was a half damage on a miss power.)

On to the OOC:
I mostly was asking about retraining because, well, blastback swipe and glamor blade aren't as good as they sound. And, well, burning blade is okay, but I'm not sure.
Well if you play by RAW, you're free to retrain a power per level as normal. If you want to play by Power Prep, I'll be happy to throw some new powers Variel's way. If you mention which ones you want to try, I might even throw him those. :smallwink:

Btw, I resolved Laertius' actions so Variel can go.

Crucival

2009-03-03, 05:10 PM

Variel strikes!

Well if you play by RAW, you're free to retrain a power per level as normal. If you want to play by Power Prep, I'll be happy to throw some new powers Variel's way. If you mention which ones you want to try, I might even throw him those. :smallwink:

So, just to clarify: Power Prep means you get X spells/level/day, which are drawn from your dailies, utilities and encounter powers. I imagine daily powers will probably be limited so that they can only be taken once per level per day, whereas encounters will be limited by the overall number of spell slots?

I'm just trying to do a breakdown of what Variel's spell list would hypothetically look like.

Grey_Wolf_c

2009-03-03, 05:18 PM

Variel strikes!

So, just to clarify: Power Prep means you get X spells/level/day, which are drawn from your dailies, utilities and encounter powers. I imagine daily powers will probably be limited so that they can only be taken once per level per day, whereas encounters will be limited by the overall number of spell slots?

I'm just trying to do a breakdown of what Variel's spell list would hypothetically look like.

The way I understand it, you cannot pick the same power twice, and you do have levels associated to the slots, so you could take to level 1 powers instead of, say, a level 1 and a level 3, but not two level 3s.

Grey Wolf

Crucival

2009-03-03, 06:45 PM

The way I understand it, you cannot pick the same power twice, and you do have levels associated to the slots, so you could take to level 1 powers instead of, say, a level 1 and a level 3, but not two level 3s.

Grey Wolf

This strikes me as a little odd--a RAW encounter power would get used anywhere from 1-5 times in a day, let's say, depending on the activity level.

So let's say you do Power Prep instead. You should get an extra 2-3 spell slots per day to fill with encounter-level powers.

This is how I see the breakdown, for Power Prep, if it were to be roughly equivalent to RAW while still retaining Vancian characteristics:

Before resting at the end of a day, you must prepare powers. At-will powers remain infinitely usable (Not sure if they should be swappable or not). For each level in which you gain an encounter power, pick X (3? 4? More?) encounter powers of that level for the day, including repeats. For each level in which you gain a daily power, pick one daily power for the day. Using a power expends that slot for the rest of the day, as if it were an arcane spell in 3.5E.

Tequila Sunrise

2009-03-04, 12:19 AM

So, just to clarify: Power Prep means you get X spells/level/day, which are drawn from your dailies, utilities and encounter powers. I imagine daily powers will probably be limited so that they can only be taken once per level per day, whereas encounters will be limited by the overall number of spell slots?

I'm just trying to do a breakdown of what Variel's spell list would hypothetically look like.
Okay I think I get what you're asking now. Prepped encounter powers aren't lost after you use them. You can't use a spent encounter power for the rest of the encounter of course, but it refreshes after a short rest.

A Power Prep PC has the same "slots" as a normal PC, like Grey_Wolf said. For example right now as an 11th level PC, Variel would have two at-will slots, four encounter slots (levels 11, 7, 3, 1), three daily slots (levels 9, 5, 1) and three utility slots (levels 10, 6, 2). And yeah, you can swap at-wills around too.

TS

Crucival

2009-03-04, 01:14 AM

Oh, so basically you get all the same numbers of the same kinds of powers, and use them at all the same frequencies, you just...pick which set of powers you want for the day when you sleep the night before? I might just have to accept that after all.

Sorry about all the confusion. I was trying to shoehorn a 3.5e style Vancian system into the 4e system, and it hurt my brain.

Edit: WE LEVELED UP WOOOOO.

Variel takes the "Stance of Chaos" Encounter power, and the Double Aegis feat.

And...is strongly leaning towards becoming a power prep character.

Vox Clamantis

2009-03-04, 01:41 AM

With the level, Laertius gains:

- 4 hp

- Soul Burn (Paragon Utility) (renew encounter power by spending healing surge)

- one feat (War Wizardry, due to popular request)

~Gabriel

P.S. Also going to spend a healing surge to bring himself up to max.

NecroRebel

2009-03-04, 01:48 AM

Yay level!

Character changes:
-Added Impossible to Catch level 12 encounter utility
-Added Weapon Focus in Light Blades
-Improved all attacks, defenses, and skills by 1
-Improved HPMax by 5

I figure increasing my damage dealt can't hurt, hence Weapon Focus. Impossible to Catch will increase my durability and independence, as it's effectively a 2-round CA granter. Minor action invisibility is fun :smallbiggrin: Also, improvements to my durability are up across the board via increased HP and defenses and the aforementioned Impossible to Catch.

Crucival

2009-03-04, 02:46 PM

First of all Variel also gained the level based +1 modifier, and the 6 hp he's due. Forgot to mention that, above.

Second of all, I'm going to pass on becoming Power Prep, and just retrain out Blastback Swipe for Sloth Strike.

Glamor Blade...jury's still out. I've done some googling and it sounds like Glamor Blade is partly nonsensical without some house ruling involved. I'll discuss below, in the spoiler, for anyone curious.

Basically, it allows Variel to copy himself, and then share an action pool and hp pool with the copy, as long as they stay within 5 squares of one another. It's nice for doing things like causing flanking and giving yourself CA on an enemy, or causing interesting AoO situations.

But a few things remain unresolved. Can the copy mark people separately from the original, for aegis purposes? Do they share the same pool of powers? Do they have separate status effects?

The easiest house rule is to essentially say the character occupies two squares, but anything that happens to either square gets marked on the same sheet. But if that's all it is, would I be better off with a power that just...does damage?

Tequila Sunrise

2009-03-04, 03:03 PM

Variel and Dolgan took 5 damage from the demon's aura, but Reed is fine.

Okay, a couple questions for you guys:
1. Btw, are any of you not guys? I generally assume that posters are guys, but I like to be inclusive. :smallcool:
2. How were those four skill challenges? Was it too obvious how to complete them? Too simplistic? Repetitive? I've only run one skill challenge before this game, and I'm not comfortable with them yet.
3. How have the fights been? I've been cutting them short when it becomes clear that you'll win, to avoid grind. Anyway, have they been exciting despite the high probability of hitting and low probability of getting hit? Any particular kinds of fights you'd like to try? (Halfway through this last fight I realized I should have had you rolling Athletics checks to move, but whatever. Next aquatic fight.)

Oh, so basically you get all the same numbers of the same kinds of powers, and use them at all the same frequencies, you just...pick which set of powers you want for the day when you sleep the night before? I might just have to accept that after all.
Exactly.

Grey_Wolf_c

2009-03-04, 03:20 PM

1. Btw, are any of you not guys? I generally assume that posters are guys, but I like to be inclusive. :smallcool:
Yes, I'm a guy. And I'm near UK time. And that's about as far as my internet paranoia lets me reveal :smalltongue:

2. How were those four skill challenges? Was it too obvious how to complete them? Too simplistic? Repetitive? I've only run one skill challenge before this game, and I'm not comfortable with them yet.

A little repetitive and unimaginative (only a little). From what I've read, the fun of the skill challenges is for each player to think of skills that can help the situation, and of course that match the role-playing you happen to be doing. Slitting throats didn't really mash all that well with Dolgan. Had I had the option, I would've used religion to "purify" the demons (i.e. burn them away). Mind you, the way you did it did make it fast, so it didn't get boring. Yes, I understand that the DM sets the base checks, and that strange checks can only be used once per RAW, but there are plenty of ways to approach any given situation, I think.

3. How have the fights been? I've been cutting them short when it becomes clear that you'll win, to avoid grind. Anyway, have they been exciting despite the high probability of hitting and low probability of getting hit? Any particular kinds of fights you'd like to try? (Halfway through this last fight I realized I should have had you rolling Athletics checks to move, but whatever. Next aquatic fight.)

Fights have been fun, although they may have been missing a little challenge (not much, I like to play on easy :smallbiggrin:). I won't pretend I managed to follow the maths when you guys/gals talked about power curves and so on, but I think the evidence suggests that the bonuses to hit and to defence you gave us are excessive. We could try a couple of encounters without them, see if the probability curve turns towards enemies too much.

I don't really have a reason, just the fact that we hit with 5s and enemies hit less than 50%. Maybe the curve is not +1 per level because we get bonuses from magic weapons? I don't know - I don't even know if that was taken into account in the calculations y'all did - but I've heard that this time WotC hired mathematicians to level the game, so I'd be inclined to trust that they did a good job until I see evidence against it.

All that said, do not feel that I am not enjoying the game, or think there is a need to change how things are going. I'm liking this game quite a bit, and for all the rant above, I'll be happy to leave it exactly as it is. It is meant as constructive criticism, and nothing else (my rules say that complaints about a game are sent via PM to the DM, never posted publicly, in case anyone ever wonders).

Grey Wolf

Vox Clamantis

2009-03-04, 08:39 PM

I was a man last time I checked... :smallamused:

I'm not a huge fan of the skill challenge mechanic, so the rapidity with which you got us through that was much appreciated. I grew up with 2nd Edition, where the DM just presented a situation and it was up to the player to figure out a way around it using the skills at his disposal. All 'skill challenges' feel scripted and tedious by comparison.

The fights have been fun, but it's always good to surprise the players. Ambushes, hidden hazards, physical obstacles, complicated terrain; those are the things that make fights interesting. Dice odds have little or nothing to do with it.

Of course, designing a really engaging encounter can be very time consuming, so it's entirely a matter of what you feel up to. There are a number of ways you could liven up the combat, but I have no complaints so far.

~Gabriel

Crucival

2009-03-04, 08:40 PM

Exactly.
*Sheepish look* Um...um...can I switch to power prep after all? I want to have Frost Backlash as an option instead of Burning Blade, and Be Gone instead of Glamor Blade, and of course Sloth Strike instead of Blastback Swipe, among other things.

Variel and Dolgan took 5 damage from the demon's aura, but Reed is fine.

Okay, a couple questions for you guys:
1. Btw, are any of you not guys? I generally assume that posters are guys, but I like to be inclusive. :smallcool:
Dude, I'm totally a dude, dude.

2. How were those four skill challenges? Was it too obvious how to complete them? Too simplistic? Repetitive? I've only run one skill challenge before this game, and I'm not comfortable with them yet.
I like being able to think outside the box. So coming up with ways to use different skills is more fun that rolling them repeatedly. That said, I appreciated how it cut down on repetitive combat grinding. Though I do appreciate how you've been letting me use Variel's chaos-related fluff to do unconventional things with Arcana like sense demons and such. I'd like to continue developing his tenuous love-hate-ultimate power relationship with the Soul of Chaos and its minions as we go. :smallwink:

3. How have the fights been? I've been cutting them short when it becomes clear that you'll win, to avoid grind. Anyway, have they been exciting despite the high probability of hitting and low probability of getting hit? Any particular kinds of fights you'd like to try? (Halfway through this last fight I realized I should have had you rolling Athletics checks to move, but whatever. Next aquatic fight.)

I, too, enjoy playing games on Easy, but wouldn't mind if we tried without the extra-RAW bonuses for a little while. I'd like to try a fight with interesting environments. Cover, places to run up, jump off of, swing on, or knock over onto people. It's fun when you feel like you're having an impact on the battlefield. :smallbiggrin:

NecroRebel

2009-03-04, 09:45 PM

1. Btw, are any of you not guys? I generally assume that posters are guys, but I like to be inclusive. :smallcool:

I am, in fact, male. Whether that makes me a "guy" or not may or may not be questionable. It does.

2. How were those four skill challenges? Was it too obvious how to complete them? Too simplistic? Repetitive? I've only run one skill challenge before this game, and I'm not comfortable with them yet.

I dunno, it seemed a bit repetitive, but then again, I suspect the fights that they prevented would also have been repetitive. Further, from what I've read, both in other people's experience and from looking at the skill challenge mechanics themselves pre- and post-errata, that's actually how they're kinda supposed to be :smallconfused:

However, there's at least one suggested skill challenge that seems as though it might be spread over several days or weeks gametime. I thought it was in Open Grave, but I can't find it now... It involved the party needing to get through a land controlled by some villainous creature, and the challenge would prevent the villain from sending very threatening minions after the group. This one, at least, could be split up over a long period of time, putting unrelated combat or social encounters in between the skill checks, while at opportune moments the party would continue the challenge, for example by finding a hidden back road, identifying the dark lord's spy, or the like, all over the course of an adventure that would end in getting out of the hostile territory.

It might be better to do things that way; figure out how many successes and failures we need to win or lose the challenge, then keep track of them as, say, we move through a dungeon or downriver. Pick a number of points equal to the number of successes and failures we would need and ask for relevant skill checks then, and then count those as part of the skill challenge. This doesn't even have to be all in one go; it can have battles between checks. Heck, a battle might even be a check (as in, does an enemy escape or not).

I wish I could find that premade challenge I remember seeing again, but I can't, so I can't refer you to it :smallfrown:

3. How have the fights been? I've been cutting them short when it becomes clear that you'll win, to avoid grind. Anyway, have they been exciting despite the high probability of hitting and low probability of getting hit? Any particular kinds of fights you'd like to try? (Halfway through this last fight I realized I should have had you rolling Athletics checks to move, but whatever. Next aquatic fight.)

The fights have been fun. There's been at least some sense of danger, at least for me, without being so threatening that we've had to put everything we've had into them just to survive. It's also allowed us to try some more fun things that we might not otherwise, like my choice to engage the lobster-thing in that last fight. That probably wasn't the best idea ever, but it worked out just fine because things have been easy.

I do like having the fights cut short when it's clear that the rest is just cleaning up. Even if the last couple of opponents go down in 2-3 rounds, that still takes days realtime.

I wouldn't mind dropping the random to-hit bonus, or at least dropping it to +1 per tier instead of +1 per half-tier as it is now. I would also like to try fights with much more dangerous terrain, like fighting on 2-5 hex pillars/rocks over a precipice or lava or piranha-analogue infested waters. Also, traps; very few of the DMs that I've played under have included any in combat encounters, so those are something that I feel would be surprising and refreshing to see.

Vox Clamantis

2009-03-04, 09:51 PM

Also, time restrictions are good. I vote that our next major fight be on the lip of an active volcano that's about to erupt. That would make us all kinds of anxious...

~Gabriel

NecroRebel

2009-03-04, 10:06 PM

Also, time restrictions are good. I vote that our next major fight be on the lip of an active volcano that's about to erupt. That would make us all kinds of anxious...

~Gabriel

Volcanoes have always seemed a bit contrived to me, especially with the timescale of most pnpRPG combats. I mean, volcanoes don't just go from "it's about to erupt!" to "it's erupting!" in half a minute (at least, not if there's an "it's about to erupt!" stage at all), but most fights are over that quickly in 4E.

I'm agreed on time limits, though. I'd feel more comfortable with enemy reinforcements coming in overwhelming numbers or an enemy magic item/ritual coming active within 30 seconds after we begin combat rather than a force of nature doing us in if we're not quick, but time limits of any sort do give a good sense of urgency to things.

Vox Clamantis

2009-03-04, 10:32 PM

Volcanoes have always seemed a bit contrived to me, especially with the timescale of most pnpRPG combats. I mean, volcanoes don't just go from "it's about to erupt!" to "it's erupting!" in half a minute (at least, not if there's an "it's about to erupt!" stage at all), but most fights are over that quickly in 4E.

Naturally erupting volcanoes don't, but then naturally erupting volcanoes would be incongruous in a fantasy game.

~Gabriel

Crucival

2009-03-05, 01:19 AM

Perhaps a volcano made of enemy reinforcements? Lava golems will overwhelm us if we don't defeat the evil mages in under 10 rounds....

NecroRebel

2009-03-05, 01:39 AM

Perhaps a volcano made of enemy reinforcements? Lava golems will overwhelm us if we don't defeat the evil mages in under 10 rounds....

Or, neat idea: the battle begins in an unremarkable cavern chamber against a single mage-type enemy. Mage-type enemy uses a random fire spell on a couple unoccupied squares in the first round of combat, which then suddenly melt into magma golems!

In fact, the entire dungeon is made out of solidified magma golems, which will melt and activate if they take too much fire damage (though cold damage to inactive golems reduces the amount put towards activation), leaving 5-foot-deep gaps in the floor, whose bottom is also shallowly covered in lava. Also, all of the golems have a fire aura, so they'll be slowly melting the ones around them, and these auras stack so multiple golems around one unmelted one will melt it quicker!

Then, we have to deal with the mage (who's still tossing firebursts and such) and the golems while dealing with constant reinforcements and steadily vanishing safe space to stand on! It'll be a time-limit mission (kill all enemies before all the ground is gone), a constantly-reinforcing mission (with magma golems spawning), and a treacherous-terrain mission (with gaps from golems), all in one!

For increased challenge, make it so that the golems don't actually "die" when reduced to 0 hp, but rather resolidify back into a blocking hex, making random pillars wherever we drop one. However, the fire auras and the boss's firebursts can also remelt them again, putting them back into combat at full strength!

...Actually, that sounds like a really scary, but really fun encounter.

Vox Clamantis

2009-03-05, 03:49 AM

...Actually, that sounds like a really scary, but really fun encounter.

And another circumstance in which I'm not allowed to throw around my specialty fire spells...

:smalltongue:

~Gabriel

NecroRebel

2009-03-05, 11:10 AM

And another circumstance in which I'm not allowed to throw around my specialty fire spells...

:smalltongue:

~Gabriel

Um. Well, maybe the magma golems just obey whoever did the most to awaken them rather than just being overtly hostile? That would solve that problem.

Besides, do you realistically think TS would actually use such an encounter for us after we specifically laid it out? I don't think it would be much of a surprise if we went up against it.

Vox Clamantis

2009-03-05, 04:30 PM

Besides, do you realistically think TS would actually use such an encounter for us after we specifically laid it out? I don't think it would be much of a surprise if we went up against it.

:smalltongue: = not serious.

~Gabriel

Tequila Sunrise

2009-03-05, 07:41 PM

*Sheepish look* Um...um...can I switch to power prep after all? I want to have Frost Backlash as an option instead of Burning Blade, and Be Gone instead of Glamor Blade, and of course Sloth Strike instead of Blastback Swipe, among other things.
Sure. *Adds to loot pile*

About Glamor Blade...I feel like it should have been a utility power. And that 'glamor' shouldn't be in its name, but whatever. Anyway, I'm going to rule that it actually makes a second Variel. They're both real, and anything that happens to one happens to the other. (So if one gets hit with a status effect, both are effected. You'll roll one save per turn to free both Variels from the effect.) You could use this power as a makeshift teleport power; Variel makes a second Variel and then dismisses the original Variel.

More coming soon...

Tequila Sunrise

2009-03-08, 10:30 AM

:smallfurious: I hate daylight dumb@ss time.

No short rest yet, so you can use APs and cool powers only if you didn't use 'em already.

Also, a heads-up for you guys: Very soon I'm going to be moving to South Korea (that's the friendly one) to teach English. I haven't bought my ticket yet, but the exodus will probably happen sometime next week. I really want to continue this game, and I'm pretty sure it'll be possible, but there will probably be a hiatus for a few days as I get over jet lag and culture shock...yeah, I know exactly 13 words of Korean. They're gonna love me. :smalltongue:

NecroRebel

2009-03-10, 12:08 PM

I'm a bit confused. You say that Reed moved far enough that he can get another attack next turn, but Variel and Dolgan haven't gone yet. I think that means that they have to go before I do again, right? I've been waiting for them to go before posting another set of actions (which, depending on how far away she is, will involve me attempting to grab her, moving and using Deft Strike, using Deft Strike and running, using Sly Flourish and running, or moving and using Sly Flourish, roughly in that order of desirability).

Regardless, you're not waiting on me, are you? I don't think so, but I could be wrong.

Grey_Wolf_c

2009-03-10, 02:10 PM

Tequila Sunrise

2009-03-10, 02:48 PM

Tequila Sunrise

2009-03-10, 02:57 PM

Crucival

2009-03-10, 04:49 PM

Sorry. Got confused, got busy, then got confused again. I think my actions make some sense though. Two annoyed swordmages attempting to block a tunnel are better than one!

Grey_Wolf_c

2009-03-10, 05:45 PM

No, I'm not waiting on Reed. A PC will need to move at least 12 hexes on a turn in order to get a second shot next turn. (Sorry if this is a little confusing without the map, but I erased it already. This'll end quickly one way or the other, anyway.)

I'm a tad confused about what is going on without the map, I'll admit. I think I pushed her back and knocked her down with my attack (a sprite wouldn't have much fortitude defence, would it?), which means that Dolgan should be able to get another attack after this one (she'll have to use one movement to get up, and another will place her, at most, 4 spaces beyond Dolgan, close enough he can catch up again). Am I correct? If Dolgan missed, all this doesn't apply, of course.

Grey Wolf

Tequila Sunrise

2009-03-10, 07:39 PM

Sorry. Got confused, got busy, then got confused again. I think my actions make some sense though. Two annoyed swordmages attempting to block a tunnel are better than one!
Only one flaw that I see in your plan: Glamor Blade is a standard action, which means that one Variel will be able to reach Ms. Took but won't be able to attack.

I'm a tad confused about what is going on without the map, I'll admit. I think I pushed her back and knocked her down with my attack (a sprite wouldn't have much fortitude defence, would it?), which means that Dolgan should be able to get another attack after this one (she'll have to use one movement to get up, and another will place her, at most, 4 spaces beyond Dolgan, close enough he can catch up again). Am I correct? If Dolgan missed, all this doesn't apply, of course.
Yeah, you definitely knocked her down. At least after we resolve Variel's actions. You might be underestimating Ms. Took's need for speed though. :smallamused: (She's sacrificing standard actions to run and using minor actions to shift.)

Grey_Wolf_c

2009-03-10, 08:07 PM

Yeah, you definitely knocked her down. At least after we resolve Variel's actions. You might be underestimating Ms. Took's need for speed though. :smallamused: (She's sacrificing standard actions to run and using minor actions to shift.)

You can use minor actions to shift? How does that work? At any rate, right now, she has to burn one move action gettin on her feet again, so all she has is one move next turn. She moves one more than Dolgan (if she runs, so does he), the same as Variel, and one *less* than Reed. And we are all between her and the exit at this point (since she got knocked back into the cave), so if she moves through us, that's three AoO, and next turn we're close enough for another go.

Grey Wolf

Crucival

2009-03-10, 09:12 PM

Grey_Wolf_c

2009-03-10, 09:42 PM

Hm. How about spending an action point? I'm pretty sure Variel has one left. (He didn't use one during any of the fights before the big demon, so when they hit the milestone, he got a total of 2 AP. He spent one during the big demon encounter, leaving him with one remaining.) He could use it to make a move into the exit, putting two Variels between Ms. Took and her escape.

Again, the point isn't to attack her. The point is to make it impossible for her to leave so he can use his intimidate skill to talk her into sharing why she's really there. Variel doesn't want to hurt another fey, dammit! :smalleek: He just also doesn't want her to run away with the seed for the Tree of Destroying The World With Gnarly Roots.

You needn't use the action point if you don't want to attack: move to get into postion, then standard action to double yourself and block the exit. Right now, she would have to get through us to leave, which would mean plenty of AoOs for free.

Oh, and by my count, the big demons was our 4th encounter since we woke up, so we got an extra action point at the end of it, so we are up to three, minus whichever we have used.

Grey Wolf

NecroRebel

2009-03-10, 10:00 PM

You needn't use the action point if you don't want to attack: move to get into postion, then standard action to double yourself and block the exit. Right now, she would have to get through us to leave, which would mean plenty of AoOs for free.

Oh, and by my count, the big demons was our 4th encounter since we woke up, so we got an extra action point at the end of it, so we are up to three, minus whichever we have used.

Grey Wolf

Um. Were there 4? I thought it was 1. Pale Men ambush from the boats, 2. Pale Men/Lobsters guarding lair, 3. Demon/Lobsters/Hearts in the lair.

Not that it matters; I already asked about action points/encounter powers and TS said that we haven't taken a short rest since the demon fight, so we can't use another regardless of how many we have left. It's why I was 'only' able to move 21 instead of my maximum 1-turn dash, 41 :smallbiggrin: (That takes From the Shadows, hitting with FtS, running, then an action point to double run, but still neat).

Vox Clamantis

2009-03-10, 10:18 PM

Grey_Wolf_c

2009-03-10, 10:29 PM

Um. Were there 4? I thought it was 1. Pale Men ambush from the boats, 2. Pale Men/Lobsters guarding lair, 3. Demon/Lobsters/Hearts in the lair.

Not that it matters; I already asked about action points/encounter powers and TS said that we haven't taken a short rest since the demon fight, so we can't use another regardless of how many we have left. It's why I was 'only' able to move 21 instead of my maximum 1-turn dash, 41 :smallbiggrin: (That takes From the Shadows, hitting with FtS, running, then an action point to double run, but still neat).

I asked Tequila about it, and the skill challenges count as encounter. Stands to reason, since that there are abilities that allow action points used to reroll skill rolls, not just get extra actions. But you are right, since we didn't get a breather, those of us that used an action point against the big demon can't use another. Pity in more ways than one, because Dolgan really wants to use his Solar Wrath to check if this sprite really is one...

Grey Woolf

NecroRebel

2009-03-10, 10:37 PM

I can teleport a goodly ways...but Laertius doesn't actually think they should be chasing or hindering her. She hasn't hurt them in any way, so any use of force would (in his opinion) be not only unjustified, but impolite.

~Gabriel

I think Reed would've been fine with it if she had just taken the seed and walked out without saying anything, since he was distracted by the shinies and wouldn't have realized she hadn't given them their reward yet (...because I forgot about the reward OOC until earlier today... :smallsigh:), but since she called attention to the fact that she was doing something she shouldn't be per the characters' agreement, she's getting attacked.

Besides, breaking our deal was pretty unjustified and impolite, wasn't it?

Vox Clamantis

2009-03-10, 10:53 PM

Besides, breaking our deal was pretty unjustified and impolite, wasn't it?

Not in any way comparable to the use of violence.

~Gabriel

NecroRebel

2009-03-10, 11:19 PM

Not in any way comparable to the use of violence.

~Gabriel

That's why we're trying to subdue her rather than killing her. It's just not possible, by the rules, to do without using powers that would be deadly.

Also, keep in mind that as far as our characters are concerned, they just met this woman, what, 20 minutes ago? Less? As far as they know, she could be more dangerous than anything they've yet fought, particularly if she got her hands on what may well be a weapon.

...I know, we're kinda metagaming to think we should be stopping her, but at the same time, IC we haven't known her long enough to build up much trust, she apparently randomly came upon us, many miles from where what she sought was, followed us out of sight all those miles, and then, immediately after we were ambushed (during which she gave no aid), she appeared and asked us to risk our lives for a reward that is now not apparently forthcoming. Given all that, she's probably less trustworthy than the creatures we just slew, whether or not she has reason to distrust us as well.

We all seem to be professional adventurers/heroes, but that also means that we've all dealt with people in the wilds who aren't what they seem. Survivors in our lines of work probably fight at the first sign of betrayal; it's only the heroes who actually set out to ask questions later.

Crucival

2009-03-11, 01:39 AM

So, she outright said that she was lying to us, retrieved an object which two characters confirmed to be covered in an illusion, and said something mysterious about it not being what she claimed.

If she had just said "I lied to you before, it's actually an X and I thought you wouldn't get it otherwise" Variel might not have cared because he likes facts. Similarly, if she had simply walked out with it as if there was nothing wrong, or acted surprised at it being illusion-wrapped, he might've just let it go.

Also, he's not attacking her, unlike the hyper-violent :smalltongue: Reed and Dolgan. He just wanted to keep her from leaving until he could be sure that she wasn't going to do anything untoward with the seed.

But, regardless, she went with looking guilty, "apologizing" for lying, acknowledging that the seed was not what she had said, and then turning invisible and attempting to flee. Sorry, but that totally screams "I just tricked you foolish heroes into finding the seed of the Armageddon Tree for me" to me, and makes Variel more than a mite suspicious.

In a totally non-metagamey way, right? :smallwink:

Vox Clamantis

2009-03-11, 06:13 AM

Grey_Wolf_c

2009-03-11, 06:46 AM

Looking at this from her point of view, I've just met four people out on the wilderness who agreed to help me in exchange for important information. These casually violent individuals then proceeded to massacre a bunch of relatively helpless supernatural creatures. 'Relatively helpless supernatural creature' sounds a lot like 'unarmed female sprite out alone in the world.' I would be extremely uneasy around these people, to say the very least.

Laertius, who is himself disinclined to trust anyone, would never fault her for thinking the worst of him. He might be upset that she wasn't going to give up her information, but he'd never resort to violence over it. Man, as they say, carries his civilization with him. I don't think Laertius is really going to trust the other members of the group as readily from here on out.

~Gabriel

Err... no, from her point of view, she has been following a group of people to make sure she could lie and trick them into recovering an object she wants that she knows they wouldn't recover if she was honest with them.

Now, we (characters/players) do not know what this object is, but it is going to be central to the morality argument, and there is two possibilities:

1) The object is important but innocuous. For example, the keys to her tree, with an embarrasing key-ring of her S.O. posing with only a couple of leaves in strategic place. In this situation, the use of violence is, I agree, unwarranted.

2) The object in important, and dangerous. For example, the egg of a world-eating insect. In this case, violence is perfectly acceptable, since she can obviously can no longer be trusted to do what is right with such an object, after having demonstrated her desire to cheat, lie and steal.

(I'm going to skip the "uninportant object" line for obvious reasons: one does not lie about unimportant objects)

The bottom line is that she removed our ability to make a moral decision. Would we have helped her to recover the object if she had told us what it really is? Evidence seems to sugest we would have not. Thus, until such time as we *can* decide if that object should be in her hands, stopping her is the only way. And notice we hardly went directly to charging at her: we are giving her every opportunity to explain her actions and be civilised. Every time she refuses, she strengthens the 2nd possibility.

Also, predicting a possible counter-argument, "why should we be the ones to decide if keeping the object is good", three things:

1) Dolgan is a priest. He makes moral decisions as part of his job/calling (others may have similar arguments).
2) We acted in good faith, and we might have let her take the object regardless, but our decision-making was removed under false pretenses.
3) She lied.

Now, I'm not going to even start to pretend all this went through Dolgan's head. Right now is pumped full of adrenaline and just saw someone stealing from him, so he is acting on a basic instinct: "she lied, she's taking that thing, which is not a seed, I need time to think about it, I better stop her so I have that time"

Hope that helps,

Grey Wolf

Edit: by the way, I didn't go into the whole "massacre a bunch of relatively helpless supernatural creatures" because it is inmaterial to my argument, but I still want to say: these are demons, and we know they are so because they are paralised by Dolgan's power. The fact that we are much better fighters than them is irrelevant. You are probably refering to us killing the one in the walls as the massacre part, but since she lied to us before we even got to that part, introducing that argument into the morality of the situation is specious.

Also, obviously, but just in case, everything expressed here is in my opinion, as filtered through Dolgan's view point.

GW

Tequila Sunrise

2009-03-11, 09:07 AM

I think it's very interesting that the most cynical character of the party is the one who doesn't want to attack or subdue her.

...an embarrasing key-ring of her S.O. posing with only a couple of leaves in strategic place.
This discussion cracks me up. Please continue.

NecroRebel

2009-03-11, 11:01 AM

It did seem a bit odd to me that the suspicious tiefling would be the most apparently-trusting of all of us. I felt it IC for Reed to a) be on a hair trigger for betrayal, given his line of work and heritage, b) be unwilling to just let someone leave without fulfilling their end of a deal, and c) be very suspicious of someone who claimed to be a liar.

I agree with Grey_Wolf, though; she followed us through the wilderness specifically so that she could see if she could manipulate us into killing the guardians of what she sought.

It may be, of course, that the seed is something harmless overall and that we would've helped her if merely asked, though as she met us in the wilds she was probably wise not to just tell us what it is. Meeting random people in the wilderness is, as I implied before, an extremely dangerous prospect when there's the possibility of carnivorous shapeshifters or vicious bandits about. They might have decided to take her precious thing, which could for all we know be a fairy egg or otherwise her children in disguise, lying about what it is could have been beneficial.

However, it's probably unlikely that our characters would decide that she was right to distrust us. Most people get very insulted if you say that you don't trust them, and that tends to color their reactions. It may not justify the party's actions, but it does help explain them.

As to the line about 'relatively harmless supernatural beings,' there are a few things to pay attention to. First, we haven't yet destroyed any of the immobile hearts AFAIK. The mobile creatures were, from what I've gathered of Chaos Beasts, the rough equivalent of a pride of man-eating lions: they hunt sapient beings preferentially, they attack on sight with little to no provocation, and are just generally extremely dangerous. It probably isn't a bad thing in most people's eyes to protect oneself when attacked, and probably is a good thing to prevent attacks on who-knows-how-many other people, and as everyone probably knows, these creatures would attack others given the chance. Destroying them is something even the most selfish and cruel mortal or immortal would do given the chance simply because they are dangerous to anyone who comes near.

Crucival

2009-03-11, 11:13 AM

Corrolary to this whole line of argument: She tricked the party, and they are now responsible for anything she is able to do with the object she now possesses.

If she becomes a world-threatening villain, it is because we empowered her to do so.

If she is able to embarrass her S.O. using fig-leaf pictures...and thus depose a rightful, benevolent ruler and replace him with a tyrant (see what I did there?) then it is because we gave her the chance.

So for all this talk about who's using violence for what, it's a question of who actually cares about the consequences of her deception. Laertius doesn't want to push her on the issue because he feels that she's justified in her mistrust, and I understand that. But saying "Why would she trust us in the first place? It's no more than I would do, so let her go" is the first step on a slippery slope towards apathy and a potentially dangerous lack of inquisitive drive.

Let me also add to this line of thought one other important piece of information: We are talking about a magical artifact, protected by deformed, powerful beings of pure hate and destruction. That alone should give the characters pause, when they discover that it is encrusted with illusions. You don't hide a bottle opener in a chaos hive.

Tequila Sunrise

2009-03-11, 07:41 PM

How is Dolgan getting a +21 Insight? His base is +11 and if he's using Discern Lies it should be at least +25, depending on the total of his Religion check.

Grey_Wolf_c

2009-03-11, 08:30 PM

How is Dolgan getting a +21 Insight? His base is +11 and if he's using Discern Lies it should be at least +25, depending on the total of his Religion check.

Yeah, that's my mistake, sorry. I used my passive insight value as the bonus. It should be +11 - so only 30 to see if she's lying.

Grey Wolf

Vox Clamantis

2009-03-11, 09:48 PM

Laertius is intensely suspicious and untrusting, but reneging on a bargain isn't the sort of thing he'd resort to violence over. He's no pacifist, but it would go completely against his nature to attack a defenseless female regardless of her social transgressions (which breaking a bargain falls under).

We'd already agreed to let her have the seed, so the 'what if it's evil' argument holds no water unless you were intending to go back on our word.

But I don't suppose any of this really matters.

~Gabriel

Crucival

2009-03-11, 10:52 PM

....one last comment, before I give up on this argument.

The PCs agreed to let her keep the seed back when they thought they knew what it was. A seed for a particular brand of tree, which has beneficial alchemical properties. But between the illusion they detected and the "Sorry that I was lying to you, gonna go invisible and run off now!," she made it clear that the seed was not what the PCs were told. I don't think that the party said "you get to keep the seed, I don't care what it is."

I think, perhaps, this doesn't bother you because you assume the deception is a natural and understandable precaution in an untrustworthy situation. I think you also put a greater negative value on violence, and make certain assumptions about Ms. Took's intentions and vulnerability.

I don't, personally, care about the bargain, as much as I care about her lying about the object of the quest. Plenty of adventurers get suckered with "Defeat the evil demon--whoops, he's actually the guardian of the Sealed Evil in a Can that you just released" or "fetch this object that will save the world--whoops, that's actually the last piece of the weapon I need to destroy it." It wasn't a matter of planning to go back on the bargain, it was a matter of "Suddenly, I realized I had no idea what the hell I had just accomplished, or why, or for what side, because many of my fundamental assumptions were challenged/wrong."

ANYWAY!!! I think you have a valid point about us overreacting, but I also think that we have some good points about why Ms. Took's behavior is worryingly deceptive. But we're kinda stuck with what happened, now. :smallfrown:

While these arguments are interesting, I refer you to this (http://xkcd.com/386/) as an example of why they might eventually become detrimental to our collective health.

Tequila Sunrise

2009-03-12, 03:48 PM

If Dolgan and Variel are satisfied with the Took situation, we can move on to the loot...:smallsmile:

Grey_Wolf_c

2009-03-12, 04:07 PM

If Dolgan and Variel are satisfied with the Took situation, we can move on to the loot...:smallsmile:

Dolgan isn't particularly happy with the situation, but oh well. Shall we RP, or are you just going to move us forward to the camp where, after a short rest, we ID the items?

Grey Wolf

Crucival

2009-03-14, 05:35 PM

Variel's...y'know. Done.

Satisfied? Probably not. But we should get a-lootin. :P

Tequila Sunrise

2009-03-14, 09:18 PM

Don't you love the Friday GitP forum lock-down? :smallannoyed:

Anyway, on to other matters. We'll be continue adventuring on Monday. On the topic of HR bonuses, I don't want to drop them but I did plot them out level-to-level and decided to tweak them. Up until now I've been refluffing MM monsters, but I'm going to start tweaking them to make fights slightly more challenging. I know it seems counterproductive to give you guys bonuses and tweak monsters at the same time, but I have my reasons. (It lets me give the monsters a flat boost to attacks and defenses that I can use in all three tiers, rather than having to scale my tweaks with level.) For those of you interested in the math behind the curtain, here's how my HR bonuses work:

At the third and seventh level of each tier (3, 7, etc.), PCs get a +1 enhancement bonus to weapon/implement attack rolls, weapon/implement damage rolls and all defenses. They also get a 1d6 critical die at these levels, which does not stack with the critical dice of any weapon or implement they might have.

At the first and fifth level of the paragon and epic tiers (11th, 15th, etc.), PCs get an extra +1 level bonus to all attack rolls and all defenses. When a character wears heavy armor, this bonus doubles for the purpose of AC.

So Dolgan's stats should now be:
Weapon Attacks +16, Implement Attacks +14, AC 29, Fort 24, Ref 23, Will 26
Reed's stats should now be:
Attacks +19, AC 27 (33 vs. OAs), Fort 21, Ref 27, Will 23
Laertius' stats should now be:
Attacks +15, Fire Attacks +16, AC 29 (31 vs. OAs), Fort 22, Ref 24, Will 21
Variel's stats should now be:
Weapon Attacks +17, Implement Attacks +14, AC 30, Fort 22, Ref 24, Will 21

NecroRebel

2009-03-14, 09:27 PM

Alright, so the loots and their book locations:
determined dagger: AV67
fireburst boots: AV129
survivor's belt: AV167
heavy cold iron shield: AV116

I vote that Reed gets the dagger for reasons that should be obvious, Dolgan gets the shield since he's the only one that uses them, Variel takes the boots so he can have improved mobility while also attacking, and Laertius the belt just to be fair :smallwink: Anyone think that this is a bad distribution?

...Also, what level is the dagger? It's still important due to critical hit properties.Nevermind, question got answered. However: And what happened to the magic ring mentioned in the IC post #239? Presumably we'd want to take it if we know its there and felt its magic aura.

Finally, with 8000gp present, we can easily split it evenly between the four of us. I'd suggest we go that route, again just to be fair. We may not want to simply pool our resources just yet, after all, seeing as IC we've not known each other long.

Vox Clamantis

2009-03-14, 09:39 PM

I can't access myth-weavers at the moment, but that looks as though all of Laertius' stats dropped by 1. I guess I'm fine with that. Doesn't really make much of a difference.

Unfortunately, I don't remember off the top of my head whether I would have any use for the belt. I suspect I already have a belt item.

~Gabriel

Grey_Wolf_c

2009-03-14, 10:52 PM

As far as I know, Mythweavers is down until mid-week. It no longer shows a message, but it said something about upgrading to a new version.

I agree with the distribution of loot (although I like the belt better than the shield, mostly because I prefer always-on powers), and also would like to know what happened to the ring. I do need the level of the shield, since the daily changes a bit as it goes up in levels.

Grey Wolf

Edit: Necro, we do need the level of the dagger. Without magic weapon, we all have +2d6 in criticals, but if the dagger is level 13, you get +3d6. Which also reminds me, does that mean that Dolgan gets (+2d6 +2d12) for his critical?

GW

Tequila Sunrise

2009-03-14, 11:31 PM

Whoops! The dagger is 13th level, the shield is 15th level. The ring is of feather falling (AV 158).

I also forgot the spell book which contains: The two At-Wills that Variel doesn't know, Foesnare, Frost Backlash, Fear No Elements, Sloth Strike, Deep Freeze, Dimensional Warding, Flamewall Strike, Be Gone and Arcane Awareness

Edit: Necro, we do need the level of the dagger. Without magic weapon, we all have +2d6 in criticals, but if the dagger is level 13, you get +3d6. Which also reminds me, does that mean that Dolgan gets (+2d6 +2d12) for his critical?
Where would the +2d12 come from? Dolgan uses a jagged axe right?

Grey_Wolf_c

2009-03-14, 11:44 PM

Tequila Sunrise

2009-03-15, 09:34 AM

The 2[W] from Deadly Axe/High Crit is in addition to standard crit dice, so you get them both.

Crucival

2009-03-16, 03:51 PM

Thanks for clearing up the spellbook stuff. When mythweavers goes back up on wednesday/thursday, I'll add it in.

Variel's quite happy taking the boots. If you look closely, I sneakily grabbed them earlier before the loot-parceling happened, though Variel would gladly put them back into the pot before reclaiming them. TS might've edited out the identities of the items in the first post, by my inbox kept them. Mwahaha. :smallwink:

Anywho, I'm fine with the drop of 1 from our various bonuses, and the modification of monsters.

Vox Clamantis

2009-03-16, 06:47 PM

Laertius doesn't need the belt, so he'll just sell that off when he gets the chance.

Once myth-weavers goes up again, I'll be changing Laertius' memorized spells. Variety is the spice of life. :smallwink:

~Gabriel

Crucival

2009-03-16, 11:23 PM

Random question:
When you re-did all the various bonuses, TS, did you take into account the extra +1 to all defenses/attacks we all got when we hit level 12?

It looks like, given the level we're at, we all have a total of a +3 bonus to attacks and defenses, i.e. the equivalent of having a +3 weapon, but with no additional bonuses on top of that.

Grey_Wolf_c

2009-03-17, 09:26 AM

Mythweavers is back, although their scripting is not working well.

Grey Wolf

NecroRebel

2009-03-17, 10:40 AM

Yeah, I wasn't sure before, so I was just assuming TS was right, but now I think the attack roll bonuses and defenses he's giving us are lower than they should be.

Basically, all our enhancement bonuses dropped by 1 and our unnamed bonuses dropped by 1 (though in my case I have +3 armor and now a +3 weapon), so everything should've been 2 lower than before. Due to our increased level, though, that drops to 1 lower, and if we have +3 equipment for anything we should have the same bonus in that area as before.

So, by my reading, I have:
Attacks +20 (6 level + 6 Dex + 1 Class + 3 Prof + 3 Enhance from new dagger + 1 Unnamed)
AC 28 (10 + 6 level + 6 Dex + 3 Enhance + 1 Unnamed + 2 Leather)
Fort 21 (10 + 6 Level + 2 Str + 2 Enhance + 1 Unnamed)
Ref 27 (10 + 6 Level + 6 Dex + 2 Class + 2 Enhance + 1 Unnamed)
Will 23 (10 + 6 Level + 4 Cha + 2 Enhance + 1 Unnamed)

In short, you were ignoring the possibility of us actually having splurged on +3 equipment for whatever reason. In my case at least, feytouched armor gives an initiative bonus equal to the enhancement bonus, so I picked the higher-level version of that, and the determined dagger you just gave me is +3 too so it's going to be my primary weapon for the time being, though I'll probably try to score kills with the Blackshroud Dagger +2 for the better property.

Tequila Sunrise

2009-03-17, 04:09 PM

As much as I'm looking forward to Reed wandering around a demon infested city alone, :smallamused:, I think now is a good time to pause the adventure.

Is Reed scouting or searching for anything in particular?

Who's taking the feather fall ring?

Variel's quite happy taking the boots. If you look closely, I sneakily grabbed them earlier before the loot-parceling happened, though Variel would gladly put them back into the pot before reclaiming them. TS might've edited out the identities of the items in the first post, by my inbox kept them. Mwahaha. :smallwink:
Damn, I'm going to have to start editing my posts before posting!

When you re-did all the various bonuses, TS, did you take into account the extra +1 to all defenses/attacks we all got when we hit level 12?
I did take level 12 into account, but it's possible that I made mistakes anyway. (+3 to attacks and defenses is correct. +2 damage and +2d6 crit too.)

NecroRebel: Your math would be right, except that items don't actually have enhancement bonuses under my HRs.

NecroRebel

2009-03-17, 04:33 PM

As much as I'm looking forward to Reed wandering around a demon infested city alone, :smallamused:, I think now is a good time to pause the adventure.

Is Reed scouting or searching for anything in particular?

My thought was just scouting, checking to see if the city is demon infested, how many hives are about, checking routes through for safety, and just general recon.

Of course, I did nearly botch my first three Stealth rolls here, so I might be running back to the group in a hurry. At least I wouldn't have as far to run as if I'd been on the other end of town, right? :smalleek:

NecroRebel: Your math would be right, except that items don't actually have enhancement bonuses under my HRs.

Ah, fair enough. I wasn't sure how that was working with the HRs; I assumed that if we had had higher enhancement bonuses they'd actually make a difference beyond the lower-important stuff that works off the same thing, like critical properties or my armor's initiative bonus. I've corrected the stats on my character sheet since that's what I tend to reference most.

Vox Clamantis

2009-03-18, 04:58 PM

NecroRebel

2009-03-20, 11:32 AM

Do you lads have copies of the PHB II? I was hoping to retroactively use my lvl 12 retraining to swap out one of the new feats.

~Gabriel

Edit: So...all of our stats are now one lower than they were before we gained a level? :smallconfused: In that case, I would very much like to have the opportunity to switch out a few feats from the PHB II.

Edit 2: I forgot that my damage was dropping, too.

I'm hoping to pick up a copy in another week or so, but for now I don't have one.

Speaking of which, I'm on spring break for another week or so and am visiting my parents for the duration, so my internet and book access won't be the best. Also, I'll be moving next Wednesday, so it might be a couple of days before I can get internet in my new place at all, so I might just simply be missing for that time. It really just depends on whether I can pirate someone else's wireless until I can get my own.

NecroRebel

2009-03-27, 10:06 PM

Umm... I hope you guys weren't waiting for me to get back to keep playing, even though I am back at this point.

Actually, I hope you guys were waiting for me to get back, since the alternative is probably a dying game and that would make me sad :smallfrown:

Vox Clamantis

2009-03-28, 04:27 AM

I was just wondering why everything stopped.

~Gabriel

Crucival

2009-03-28, 01:35 PM

Since TS mentioned something about "pausing the game here," I thought maybe something had come up, lifewise. Didn't TS mention that there was a trip to South Korea to teach english coming up, at some point?

Maybe our intrepid DM is traveling. And getting used to living in a country where they don't speak english.

TS, if you have internet, now would nonetheless be a good time to make a quick post and tell us that our awesome paragon game isn't dead. :smalltongue:

Tequila Sunrise

2009-04-01, 12:56 AM

NecroRebel

2009-04-02, 11:58 PM

Sorry for going MIA guys. This is my second week living in Korea, and I don't have a computer of my own here. I'm being given a computer soon but I don't know how good it is. I also don't have my books here, though hopefully I'll be able to download books once I get the computer.

As to the PHBII, I'm okay with you retroactively retraining for 95% of the new feats. The exceptions being weapon/implement expertise and any other feats that grant constant bonuses. If you want to know why I don't like those feats I'll be happy to spend a short time ranting about them, or you can read one of the many w/i expertise threads. :smallsmile:

If anyone is curious about Korea, feel free to ask. A lot is frighteningly similar to the USA, while a lot is very different. I'm learning Korean, which is surprisingly simple so far.

Well, hopefully we'll all still be around when you're ready to continue.

Just... It might be best to PM us when that happens. Otherwise, I suspect that some of us will miss it. I know Vox, Crucival, and I are all going to be taking part in an epic game that's going to be starting in the next few days, so we'll be a bit busy. Especially me, as I'll be DMing it :smallwink: