Dwarf Fortress In The Playground (Succession Game?)

[Aergoth]

The Gist: For those who have played Dwarf Fortress, many of you might know what it is. Does anyone want to try running a Playground Fortress?

The Details: For those who don't understand what I'm talking about!
Dwarf Fortress is an Ascii based game by a group of people called Bay 12 Games. It's still in the Alpha stage, but it's a fairly solid game, at least in my opinion. You control a bunch of dwarves, as they build a fortress. Simple enough. The devil as they say is in the details. You have to make sure you have enough food, booze and supplies to keep the fortress from dying. You can have caveins, sieges and marauding elephants, muskoxen or several other unpleasant creatures. Your fortress could be invaded by undead carp, or flooded. Or both! Your dwarves could go crazy.
In a succession game, each person runs the fortress for one year, and then passes the save on to the next year's ruler. Simple. Easy.

Dwarf Fortress (http://bay12games.com/dwarves)

Questions:
How do I _____?
Look at the wiki (http://www.dwarffortresswiki.net/index.php/Main_Page) They should explain many things that would otherwise take several aborted fortresses (such as preparing a fortress, building things, what not to do... and of course fun!)

I still don't get how a succession game works!
Go read the historic tale of Boatmurdered (http://lparchive.org/LetsPlay/Boatmurdered/intro.html) (Note, some language that may offend those who it offends), the fortress besieged by elephants and wild mandrils. Be warned, you might need a fair bit of spare time, and a prepared explanation for why you are laughing so loud.

I don't get it! It's just a bunch of symbols!
Dwarf Fortress (in it's base form) uses ascii characters (read: things from the keyboard and Alt-Code range.) to represent things in the game. Eventually you get used to it, all you see is dwarf, kitten, carp, CARP!
That being said, you can get a more graphical interface from the following link (http://www.dwarffortresswiki.net/index.php/List_of_user_character_sets) The page contained has quite a few tilesets for use. I still use the basic tileset at the moment, so you would have to ask someone more knowledgeable or perhaps read some of this (http://www.dwarffortresswiki.net/index.php/Tilesets)

I think that about covers it. So... Who want's in?

Aergoth
Justyn
Illiterate Scribe
Artanis
Agent Paper
Terror_Incognito
Moosefisher
Kane
Sanzh
catseyed
Destro_Yersul
LordofDucks
Rockphed
Summoner
Z-Axis
Player Zero

The World!
http://img228.imageshack.us/img228/4586/worldmapregion33001ab8.th.png (http://img228.imageshack.us/my.php?image=worldmapregion33001ab8.png) Click for full image.

[Astrella]

A lot of guys at the Picture Wars forums I frequent play it. We have a 30+ page thread (http://www.picture-wars.com/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=40&t=124) about it if you're interested.

I've played it myself a couple of times, but I find it has a steep learning curve. I didn't get further then digging out some corridors.

[AgentPaper]

I'll sign up for a succession game. Not as first, but I'd like to be in there somewhere.

Edit: Also, I vote we take the first random fortress name we get, instead of doing it until we get something we like. What we get will likely set the theme for the rest of the game, whether it's epic and serious or insane and silly. (especially insane)

[Illiterate Scribe]

I'd be up for a succession game, like a shot. Terrifying forest with a river running through it, or something similar that gives skeletal carp.

[Artanis]

It sounds like fun.

[Aergoth]

@Illiterate: We might have some newbies along so, I'd rather not try to murder the entire fortress on year two.
I've got the world generated, and I'm going to add a map and a screenshot to the first post.

I've gone over a few areas. There's a mirthful mountain in the freezing south with a river that might meet the difficulty or novelty for a few folks,
an entire terrifying/haunted glacier. A few islands if that's your thing. There's quite a few good/evil regions (i counted no fewer than 5 evil/haunted regions, including an entire mountain range, from when I zoomed out all the way, and a few smaller ones that you need to look for. Toss up some criteria and I'll see if I can find the sites.

[Artanis]

1) Make sure Goblins can get to the site. Kobolds are a plus, but not strictly necessary.

2) Try not to settle in a benign area (Serene, Calm, or Sinister). It's boring when you don't have so much as a groundhog wandering around :smallfrown:

3) If we do indeed have newbies aboard, don't be too quick to grab a "difficult" area. A challenge is good, but losing isn't quite so fun if you get eaten by skeletal carp while trying to figure out just how the hell an aquifer works.

[Aergoth]

Well I've found a few... spots. I'm going to add the screenshots as soon as I crop them.
Do we want me to deliberately search for a source of magma?

[Artanis]

*shrug* If you want. Not having magma has its charms though (preferably if you're in a ridiculously well-forested area).

[Aergoth]

All right, I've found three.
Two are cold, one is hot. One's in a swamp, the other two are on mountain. Two good (non-benign) one neutral. One's got forests. Two have bottomless pits and chasms for sure, as well as other goodies, they're all decent elevations.
I'm running a fourth search including magma hoping it will get a partial of some kind. It's a little slow though. The more criteria you add to the mix, the more time it has to spend on each colum (not to mention it's effing huge.)
Screenshots
http://img217.imageshack.us/img217/2257/fortress1hu1.th.png (http://img217.imageshack.us/my.php?image=fortress1hu1.png)
http://img297.imageshack.us/img297/3827/fortress2ju1.th.png (http://img297.imageshack.us/my.php?image=fortress2ju1.png)
http://img217.imageshack.us/img217/1771/fortress3ap1.th.png (http://img217.imageshack.us/my.php?image=fortress3ap1.png)

click any for full size.

[Sanzh]

Sign me up, please.

[Illiterate Scribe]

All right, I've found three.
Two are cold, one is hot. One's in a swamp, the other two are on mountain. Two good (non-benign) one neutral. One's got forests. Two have bottomless pits and chasms for sure, as well as other goodies, they're all decent elevations.
I'm running a fourth search including magma hoping it will get a partial of some kind. It's a little slow though. The more criteria you add to the mix, the more time it has to spend on each colum (not to mention it's effing huge.)
Screenshots
http://img217.imageshack.us/img217/2257/fortress1hu1.th.png (http://img217.imageshack.us/my.php?image=fortress1hu1.png)
http://img297.imageshack.us/img297/3827/fortress2ju1.th.png (http://img297.imageshack.us/my.php?image=fortress2ju1.png)
http://img217.imageshack.us/img217/1771/fortress3ap1.th.png (http://img217.imageshack.us/my.php?image=fortress3ap1.png)

click any for full size.

For a faster game, wouldn't more wood be helpful? There's nothing worse than 'LOL NO BEDS' when a migrant wave strikes.

[Aergoth]

The second one appears to have enough. My third search for magma fell out. There are a few volcanic islands, but I'd rather not deal with that.

[criticalstriker]

I'd really like in on this. I love Dwarf Fortress (though I completely suck at it). I'd prefer not to be the starting group, otherwise the whole thing might implode by the third year.:smalltongue:

[Aergoth]

Critstriker: stick around then. We'll put you on later in the line. I've got the save, so I'm going to start it off, let someone else take it second year, I think Illiterate third and then we'll see from there.

[Kane]

Oooo! Ooo! Sign me up!

If I'm handed a fortress that's running, I think I can keep it running; but aside from that, I'm pretty no0bish. I'm hoping for a place at least a year or three into the succession. (Tips from my predecessor as he leaves would be nice.)

I found out that screaming "****ING BOATMURDERED!" when my friends asked why I was laughing so hard worked pretty well, but they're pretty tolerant.

[Aergoth]

Alright, I'll put you down in line before Agent Paper then? That would put you after Illiterate, who I assume knows a fair bit, and myself so we'd have a more-or-less opperational fortress baring rains of elephants or skeletal carp. Or goblins/kobold strike teams with bronze colossi.

[Justyn]

I'm in. I'm okay with, and would actually prefer having, the starting group, that way I can pick out an easily defended entrance.

I would vote yes on a magma pipe with running water with sedimentary layers and soil; while everything else is okay, but not needed; HFS would be preferred, but is, again, not needed.

If it would be okay, I prefer having larger starting areas. Maybe 8x8 or even 9x9?

[TFT]

*Wishes to be put on the list*

[Aergoth]

Justyn, much as we would all love to have such things, magma cannot be found off of volcanic islands. Trust me. I've tried. We've got a site with plenty of wood, and we get enough uselesss immigrants. That being said: Not everyone has an uber-leet computer which they can play the game on. Best I could give you is 7x7. Other people have to be able to play. Two of the three locations are guaranteed chasm and bottomless pit locations.
I think we're currently leaning towards the one in the first screenshot based on what people have been saying.

[Illiterate Scribe]

Justyn, much as we would all love to have such things, magma cannot be found off of volcanic islands. Trust me.

I've certainly found magma outside of volcanic islands. Also, remember that we can make it easier on everyone's computers by turning off weather and temperature.

Also, versionwise, I'd rather stick with vanilla 40d, it being the only working on the mac.

[Artanis]

OK, let's see if I can get the post to work today. I have two things to say:

1) If there's room left, I'm in :smallcool:

2) How much vegitation does the third site's other biome have? I see where you have a lifeless mountain selected, but it looks like there's some grassland or something in the site as well. Either way, I really, really don't want to have to deal with site #2's aquifer.

Edit: I have a decent amount of experience making a successful fort. No real megaprojects just yet (some rather large projects, but nothing like a 10 z-level tall lava fountain made of pure olivine or something), but my forts are quite good at not dying a horrible, horrible death. I can link you to a couple of mine on the map archive if you want to see them.



If it would be okay, I prefer having larger starting areas. Maybe 8x8 or even 9x9?
Dear lord man, is your desktop a Cray? :smalleek:

[Aergoth]

I'll need to update mine it seems. I'm running 40c.
Artanis, you're already on the list. I didn't mean that magma only exists on volcanoes, I just can't find any. Unless we really want magma, I can throw up a new one. ( I may have to anyways.)

@ALL: The list is posted in the first. We've got a fairly good line up, though if anyone would desperatly like to be moved to a different position in the line-up, tell me now.

The sites so far:
Site 1
Tropical Grassland
Advantages: It's got some trees out there
there's a guaranteed river underground, and there's a brook, though I couldn't tell you if they're the same.
It's a nicely elevated location, so there shouldn't be much worry about building, or keeping a roof over our heads.
Sand and flux stone, moderate vegetation.
Neutral area
Disadvantages: It's hot. The means murky water evaporates in the summer. This won't matter if we turn off temperature, but that's really just a cop-out.
Sparse trees. We might have to bring some towercaps with us to start, just so we know we have enough. We could also try for the smelt your own axe trick if we can make it work.
Site 2
Temperate Freshwater Swamp
Advantages: Guaranteed water
Lots of trees and vegetation
It's a Good area, with high savage. Likely enough to get lots of wonderful little fuzy creatures to shoot at if memory serves.
Four kinds of dirt, flux and two other layers to go through, including marble.
Disadvantages: It's a swamp, so we might have to pick-and-choose the fortress entrance. We'll have to dig down to get to anything.
Aquifer. Need I say more? Two layers it looks like.
Site 3
Cold Mountain
Advantages: Neutral Good terrain
Nice elevation, very easily defended.
Flux, sand (not pictured, I surveyed this one in-game.)
And a brook
Plenty of fuzzy critters to shoot.
Disadvantages:
The brook is frozen.
No plants
No Trees
Underground river backs on to the chasm. It's a ways back, so tunneling there through the solid granite would take a while, even with upgraded picks.

From top to bottom, best to worst. You can work around an aquifer, but you can't get by without plants very easily, and water is a definite need.

Searches reveal that we can get a magma pool if we forgo having flux.
We either don't get flux (a definite bad thing here) or we don't get magma (which we can live without.) and we get HFS (bottomless pit, chasm and other features.)

EDIT: We can get Magma Pool, Underground River and Flux without the hidden fun stuff. So it's really up to those who want it which is more important. You can make steel without magma, same with glass. You can't work steel even if you have magma without flux. Oh. And it's calm.

[Justyn]

Dear lord man, is your desktop a Cray? :smalleek:

No, just a 2004 (I think) Gateway, with an upgraded video card. I just got it reformatted recently, and I really don't keep many things running simultaneously. On a 16x16 map with 180 dwarves, I can get about 10 FPS (hey, I said it would run, I never said anything about fast), which is playable... but I can get a good frame rate on an 8x8.

[Aergoth]

Let's settle on 7x7. Just to be fair to the people who can't/don't run rigs like that. Or need to multitask.

[Destro_Yersul]

I might be interested in this. I've played a few fortresses, and I'm not bad at the game by any means, even if I still don't understand how everything works.

[Moose Fisher]

I'm no expert, but I can manage. Some Wiki browsing will cover any problems in game.

Some questions:
1) I don't want to lose my files, so some instructions (what goes where and any minute changes) for loading and uploading the fortress would be appreciated.

2) How long do we have until our turn is over?

3) What site will we use to transfer files?


Anyway, I vote for the 7x7 Tropical Grassland area with a random fortress name.:smallbiggrin:

[Illiterate Scribe]

3) What site will we use to transfer files?

I've found megaupload is plenty good.

[Artanis]

I'll need to update mine it seems. I'm running 40c.
Artanis, you're already on the list. I didn't mean that magma only exists on volcanoes, I just can't find any. Unless we really want magma, I can throw up a new one. ( I may have to anyways.)
I just meant that I hadn't built anything on the scale of what I mentioned. I've done some fairly elaborate construction projects, but nothing remotely as big as some of the more insane projects (http://www.bay12games.com/forum/index.php?topic=24641.0) that I've seen.



The sites so far:
Site 1
Tropical Grassland
Advantages: It's got some trees out there
there's a guaranteed river underground, and there's a brook, though I couldn't tell you if they're the same.
It's a nicely elevated location, so there shouldn't be much worry about building, or keeping a roof over our heads.
Sand and flux stone, moderate vegetation.
Neutral area
Disadvantages: It's hot. The means murky water evaporates in the summer. This won't matter if we turn off temperature, but that's really just a cop-out.
Sparse trees. We might have to bring some towercaps with us to start, just so we know we have enough. We could also try for the smelt your own axe trick if we can make it work.
Looks like there's an aboveground brook, based on the picture you gave. Plus, if we have a brook, the murky pools drying up isn't an issue. Tower Cap logs are cheap, and it's MUCH better to leave the anvil behind and buy one from the caravan than it is to try to smelt your own axe.

All in all, it looks pretty decent.



Site 2
Temperate Freshwater Swamp
Advantages: Guaranteed water
Lots of trees and vegetation
It's a Good area, with high savage. Likely enough to get lots of wonderful little fuzy creatures to shoot at if memory serves.
Four kinds of dirt, flux and two other layers to go through, including marble.
Disadvantages: It's a swamp, so we might have to pick-and-choose the fortress entrance. We'll have to dig down to get to anything.
Aquifer. Need I say more? Two layers it looks like.
Ugh.



Site 3
Cold Mountain
Advantages: Neutral Good terrain
Nice elevation, very easily defended.
Flux, sand (not pictured, I surveyed this one in-game.)
And a brook
Plenty of fuzzy critters to shoot.
Disadvantages:
The brook is frozen.
No plants
No Trees
Underground river backs on to the chasm. It's a ways back, so tunneling there through the solid granite would take a while, even with upgraded picks.
This has serious potential. If the cave river can be properly exploited, it would solve pretty much all of the downsides...but I don't think that would work out so well, especially in a succession game. I would be OK with it, but it's not my favorite.

Also, the quality and material of picks does nothing when it comes to mining speed. It's just the miner's skill.



From top to bottom, best to worst. You can work around an aquifer, but you can't get by without plants very easily, and water is a definite need.
Of the three presented, I'd prefer #1



Searches reveal that we can get a magma pool if we forgo having flux.
We either don't get flux (a definite bad thing here) or we don't get magma (which we can live without.) and we get HFS (bottomless pit, chasm and other features.)
HFS doesn't stand for "hidden fun stuff" like chasms and whatnot. It stands for "hidden Fun stuff", which is another matter altogether :smallcool:

I think HFS might make for an interesting fort. Especially if I send the miners in a beeline for it :smalltongue:



EDIT: We can get Magma Pool, Underground River and Flux without the hidden fun stuff. So it's really up to those who want it which is more important. You can make steel without magma, same with glass. You can't work steel even if you have magma without flux. Oh. And it's calm.
Hrm...this is the most "perfect" site mentioned so far, but perfect isn't necessarily interesting. I'd definitely be OK with using such a site, but site #1 sounds a bit more interesting.

[Terror_Incognito]

I'll sign up. I've just started playing DF so I'd like to see how a proper fortress works.

[Aergoth]

Terror: I'll drop you in the middle of the list. Try running a fort or two of your own, remember Losing is fun, and use the wiki. We don't want people completely without experience, but newbishness is tolerable.
@ Moose: Can't help with 1 from a proper point of view, but all you really need to do is make sure the regionX numbers of the folders in the save folder of data aren't the same. That should keep you from messing up.
2. I was planning 1 year per, and run it on a rotation. If we run out of new people we spit the people back up in a different order and start the list over again.
3. I have good experiences with fileden. Or we could just email it from person to person. My plan was just to rar/zip everything into one nice little compact, send it along and have the next person unrar or unzip.
@Destro: I'll add you to the list tommorrow.

[Moose Fisher]

Ok, add me to the list.

We'll have to set up the method of file transfer after/during your turn Aergoth.

[GrassyGnoll]

I've tried to get one of these going before. Lasted three players before fizzling. I'm up for it as long as I don't have to organize it.

[Rockphed]

Add me to the list(though I will need to get myself a clean install of 40d).

I am okay with any of the three sites.

[AgentPaper]

I'm no noob, I just want the fort to be up and running before I get it, so I can make a giant statue in my image without causing the fortress to kill itself in the process. Bonus points if I can get it to spew lava, or since we have no lava spew water. WATER INFESTED WITH SKELETAL CARP! WITH LASERS ATTACHED TO THEIR HEADS! BWAHAHAHA!

[Aergoth]

Sorry if I implied that Paper, but it does seem to be what's happening. Ducks and Moose you two are on. I'm handling the out-of-game logistics myself, so no need to worry.

[Artanis]

@ Moose: Can't help with 1 from a proper point of view, but all you really need to do is make sure the regionX numbers of the folders in the save folder of data aren't the same. That should keep you from messing up.
Just a note: you can rename the folder. It doesn't have to be "regionX", because you can just change it to whatever the name of the world itself is, or better yet, rename it GitP.

[Aergoth]

Sounds like a plan. I'm going to get started then, some time this evening. Any suggestions for the starting build?
My typical is

Miner/Mason
Cutter/Carpenter
Cook/Brewer
Mechanic/Architect/Whatever else (usually a bone carver)
Hunter/Butcher
Miner/Something else again (another craft dwarf, or a soldier)
Trader/Diplomat

Most of the builds are novice, but that let's me work on a few things on the side. I rarely get first-year immigrants, but peasants usually get drafted into farming, metalshop, crafting or military jobs.

Cats, pair of war or hunting dogs (maybe 1 each, unless sentry cat sounds good) and a spare horse, drop the anvil, random stone blocks (usually bauxite, or another cheap stone) and then load up on turtles and booze, usually a few ropes. Whatever isn't used is dumped into plump helmets and spawn, or tower caps.

[Illiterate Scribe]

If we're going for competent military (which I'd recommend - I think that we should probably avoid traps, since they make base defence too boring, with the exception of improvised traps like drowning chambers), then I'd recommend armoursmith.

Legendary bonecarvers/woodcarvers can give us legendary bolts, and are quite common to get, but armoursmith takes ages to train up.

Also, what's your opinion of the 'take 11 of every meat to get more barrels' trick?

[Artanis]

My typical starting 7 includes:

Proficient Wood Cutter / Proficient Carpenter
Proficient Cook / Proficient Brewer
Proficient Grower / Proficient Herbalist
Proficient Weaponsmith / Proficient Armorsmith

My other three dwarves are similar in that they are proficient in two skills. I always try to have the resulting 6 skill slots skills include:

TWO Proficient Miners (yes, two)
Proficient Mason
Proficient Stonecrafter
Proficient Glassmaker (only if we have sand)

The last one or two skills can be filled by:
Novice Appraiser + Novice Judge of Intent + Novice Negotiator (to be the broker and expedition leader)
Proficient Mechanic


Some tricks with items:
*The anvil is a ridiculously huge amount of points that can buy a LOT of goodies. Leave it behind, and have the stonecrafter work his ass off to buy one from the first caravan.
*Barrels hold 10 plants/meat/fish or 25 booze. So if you have 1 more than that, you get an extra barrel. For instance, 20 horse meat gets you 2 barrels, while 21 horse meat is put in 3. Buying 1 of every single meat and fish available further maximizes the number of barrels we get.
*The material of a pick has no effect on mining speed, so ditch the steel ones and take copper (or whatever the cheapest available is) instead.

[Aergoth]

@Illiterate: I think that the 11/+1 of everything is a little bit in the way of cheating. I always just load up on turtles anyways, so I rarely care, I won't buy different types of meat just for the sake of more barrels unless it would deliberatly increase the difficulty not to do so (for instance, the freezing mountain with no trees and frozen water, when I tested it, I did that, because I also had bring logs, and wasting them would be bad.) But with location one there, lay it off. Now, the dump/reclaim trick for getting rid of stone, I'm fine with. Also, drowning rooms are fun to watch, I couldn't build one to save my life.


Suggestion in advance, we should probably make one modification since we're using 40d. Fix the Cat cancels Store Item: Too Injured bug. It's just silly.
I should probably build a list here:
Things we are not going to do:
DWARVEN ATOM SMASHER (abusing drawbridges)
STEALING FROM MERCHANTS (by deconstructing the trade depot)
GET BACK TO WORK (drafting/undrafting civilian dwarves to force them back to work)
MODDING (with the exception of the aforementioned cat problem.)
USING OUTSIDE UTILITIES (with the exception of things like foreman, that make life easier without doing what could be thought of as cheating (essentially, no tweaking game scripts, no using tweak, or modbase or similar.)

That make sense to everyone. Don't cheat. If you ca't wrap your head around why this isn't cheating, don't do it. (The atom smasher is an excellent example, it actually requires that you build it in a certain way on occasion to have it work.)

[Illiterate Scribe]

As an addendum to that list, I'd like to add savescumming, i.e. quitting the application directly, then loading to an earlier save. Sure, it can be very helpful if you totally muck up your siege, but we want to see disastrously handled sieges, no?

[Aergoth]

Sounds like a good idea. I'm going to start the fortress then. From here on out, we start recording.
Booze, Camera, Cave-in!

[Artanis]

I would like to add boozecooking to the list of things we can't do.



Also, regarding atom smashers: do we have magma or a chasm? Because if we don't, the only way to permanently get rid of garbage is via atom-smasher, so a 2x1 one built waaaaaaaaaaay in the back of the fort well away from any potential victims is sometimes considered a legit use of one.

Of course, this would have the caveat that "if you aren't sure the location is legit, don't do it".

[Illiterate Scribe]

I would like to add boozecooking to the list of things we can't do.


But how will our dorfs survive without an endless supply of +Dwarf wine biscuits+? Answer that one now.

[Artanis]

By eating plump helmets and ☼quarry bush leaf roast☼ [28]

[Aergoth]

How do you get around boozecooking?
We have a chasm, so atomsmashing is out of bounds.

@Justyn: This area is so easily defended it's not even funny. It's a valley, with a brook running through the middle of it. Sand and rock outer walls, I might just try a compartmentalized fortress.

[Illiterate Scribe]

How do you get around boozecooking?
We have a chasm, so atomsmashing is out of bounds.

@Justyn: This area is so easily defended it's not even funny. It's a valley, with a brook running through the middle of it. Sand and rock outer walls, I might just try a compartmentalized fortress.

But can it defend from internal conflict ... :smallamused:

[Artanis]

Oh good, no smasher needed then :smallbiggrin:

You get around boozecooking by going to the kitchen tab in the status screen (z key) and telling it not to cook booze.

[Aergoth]

@Illiterate. I compartmentalize my fortress. Dwarves don't have the buildingdestroyer tag. Doors seperate everything. Including the workshops. Every individual workshop has a door between it and the next workshop three of them. Someone can't finish an artifact? BOOM! lock the doors!
@Artanis: Yes. Guaranteed chasm, just need to find the damn thing.

[Illiterate Scribe]

You're no fun. :smalltongue:

[Aergoth]

I'm paranoid, so it's fun for me. Remember, I have to build all the doors.
So far, the fortress starts on one side of the valley, and there's a tunnel that does a little bend back around to avoid damp stone, heads down again and is planned to come back up on the other side. Solves noise problems, and it means you can shoot at things from both sides of the valley, once I get catapaults.

[Kane]

Well, my post got eaten, but it was pretty short anyway;

What's atom smashing? I tried to look it up on the DF wiki, but no dice. Explanations of some of the other obscura you mention wouldn't go amiss with me, at least.

[Moose Fisher]

Well, my post got eaten, but it was pretty short anyway;

What's atom smashing? I tried to look it up on the DF wiki, but no dice. Explanations of some of the other obscura you mention wouldn't go amiss with me, at least.

Object/creature + lowering a bridge = ATOM SMASH! (http://www.dwarffortresswiki.net/index.php/Bridges)

[Aergoth]

@ Kane:

Stealing From Merchants: Caravans sometimes visit your fortress. In which case, you trade with them for worthless trinkets (instruments, toys and jewelry). You can also seize goods from them at the depot (where you trade) but this means they likely won't be back next year. If the fort needs this stuff, and they won't trade, seizing it is probably the way to go, BUT, people have figured out that if the traders die, or you take apart the depot, you can steal all their stuff. Some prefer causing cave-ins, or drowning them, but the deconstruction of the depot is bloodless/corpseless, and so the prefered method. Don't do this.

Modding: Editing the base files can make things happen, like causing cats to go thermonuclear, or dwarves to not need alcohol. This is cheating. Don't do it. The exception is to fix the cat bug, which the wiki page (look up cat error) explains how to do this.

Outside utilities; There are programs which do some of the more sensitive and tedious modding of things like memory files automatically. Don't use these. There are a few programs that allow you to easily change things enmasse, Foreman and Manager are examples of these. These are fine.

Work Drafting: There exists a minor flaw in the game that allows you to force dwarves back to the daily grind when they have "On Break" as their job, by drafting them into the military and then releasing them. Don't do this.

Otherwise, if you think it's exploiting something in the game that probably shouldn't work that way, ask a question.

[Player_Zero]

You could sign me up as long as you don't mind me buggering up all your plans and mostly RPing about pet cats of which I will have millions.

[Illiterate Scribe]

A stray cat (tame) has been struck down!

Player Zero has fallen into a melancholy.

[Aergoth]

sounds like a plan. Deliberate sabotage will be rewarded with a revert though.

[Bryn]

A succession game? Oh hey, sign me up!

Here's hoping I won't be bringing disaster and ruination upon us, but nothing is certain...

[Aergoth]

Will do later.

Status update, I've just started summer. The infrastructure is almost finished. Beds exist, I just need to carve out space in stone for bedrooms and stuff, and then we're all good.

[TheSummoner]

Sign me up... I'm a little intimidated by being so late on the list, but I'm fairly good...

Drawback is my favorite defence method has always been a flood trap in a giant channel but theres no way I could set that up in a single year... Ah well, I can work with whatever I'm given...

Edit: Also... should we set a groundrule that you aren't allowed to build monuments to yourself and set a limit on the size of burial chambers for former leaders? (7x7 max for example?). Thats the kinda thing that killed Boatmurdered afterall... that giant gecko monument...

[Artanis]

I thought it was the elephants :smallconfused:

[TheSummoner]

The elephants didn't help things, but unless I'm not remembering correctly, one mad king decided to build a giant monument to himself... labor was wasted, dwarves were killed, I think there may have been a food shortage as a result...

In any case, it doesn't help anyone to waste so much on something like that in a succession game...

As for the burial chamber size limits, I think all rulers should be fairly equal... some of the Boatmurdered rulers got kinda petty trying to overshadow eachother... give each a 7x7 room and they can do whatever they want inside of it... a tomb, some aimals chained as guards, weapon racks, statues... whatever they like...

[Illiterate Scribe]

Edit: Also... should we set a groundrule that you aren't allowed to build monuments to yourself and set a limit on the size of burial chambers for former leaders? (7x7 max for example?). Thats the kinda thing that killed Boatmurdered afterall... that giant gecko monument...

I vote against this. Boatmurdered was seriously on the way out by the time that the Gecko went up (it's here; (http://lparchive.org/LetsPlay/Boatmurdered/chapter2-17.html) also, my analysis of boatmurdered would probably be that it died of the obvious external factors and noble overload)

Furthermore, if we don't build ridiculous monuments to everything and anything, that shower our dwarves in a pleasing shroud of lava mist, then the fortress might become efficient or work. Building an efficient, fully functioning fortress means that you've lost Dwarf Fortress.

[Moose Fisher]

I vote against this. Boatmurdered was seriously on the way out by the time that the Gecko went up (it's here; (http://lparchive.org/LetsPlay/Boatmurdered/chapter2-17.html) also, my analysis of boatmurdered would probably be that it died of the obvious external factors and noble overload)

Furthermore, if we don't build ridiculous monuments to everything and anything, that shower our dwarves in a pleasing shroud of lava mist, then the fortress might become efficient or work. Building an efficient, fully functioning fortress means that you've lost Dwarf Fortress.

Seconded. Successful fortress are boring. Nist Akath got that way and the player had to start modding in challenges, manipulate events for better narrative, and build complex labyrinths.

For now, we focus on surviving. Things will grow from there.

[Justyn]

The elephants didn't help things, but unless I'm not remembering correctly, one mad king decided to build a giant monument to himself... labor was wasted, dwarves were killed, I think there may have been a food shortage as a result...

In any case, it doesn't help anyone to waste so much on something like that in a succession game...

As for the burial chamber size limits, I think all rulers should be fairly equal... some of the Boatmurdered rulers got kinda petty trying to overshadow eachother... give each a 7x7 room and they can do whatever they want inside of it... a tomb, some aimals chained as guards, weapon racks, statues... whatever they like...

The gecko didn't kill Boatmurdered, if I remember correctly, the person who made the gecko noted that the fortress had taken a gut shot and was bleeding out, it just wasn't dead, yet. But the monument was one of the underlying causes of the end of Koganusan.

But really, the final nail in the coffin? That flaming puppy.

[GrassyGnoll]

If you all are planning to install an aqueduct system don't expect me to do it. Automated mills, waterworks, and building towers is still beyond me.

Seriously, you build the surrounding walls and then a frame and floor or what? I need a step by step here.

[Player_Zero]

A stray cat (tame) has been struck down!

Player Zero has fallen into a melancholy.

Melancholy? As if! I would berserk that fortress up! I don't care if you've got four dozen legendary crossbowdwarves I'd murder every last once of them after they killed my cat!

In fact, I might even go ahead and use game cheats in order to delete them from existence. But not until after I made them suffer.

[Aergoth]

Alright, if you start acting REALLY STUPID, we'll probably revert. Stupidity for the sake of stupidity is not okay.

As it stands: Don't go building a giant monument because it would be cool. please we're NOT trying to be boatmurdered. That stuff happens on it's own. I've got enough to deal with when there are lions trying to block my original trade depot site, then having to police a bunch of idiots.
Burial Chambers: Don't be an idiot. You can build an elaborate burial chamber, but don't let the fortress go to hell in a hand basket because of it, yes?

[TheSummoner]

If I can't beat em, you sure as hell know I'm joining them.

Expect a large monument and powerful military force after my reign assuming its plausable with what I'm given.

Could we atleast do a size limit to the burial chamber size so we aren't trying to one up eachother and agree not to mess with eachother's tombs? =/

[Justyn]

Could we atleast do a size limit to the burial chamber size so we aren't trying to one up eachother and agree not to mess with eachother's tombs? =/

Just give the nobles what they ask for, and if you have extra stone, masons, and space, feel free to give everyone a small burial chamber.

[TheSummoner]

Hah, no, screw the nobles, they can have a lava bath for all I care...

I was talking about the burial chambers for US, or more accurately, the dwarves who we choose to represent ourselves when we play.

[NeoVid]

After reading Boatmurdered, I'm looking forward to seeing how this goes.

Does the place have a name, or did I just miss it?

[Artanis]

I've got enough to deal with when there are lions trying to block my original trade depot site, then having to police a bunch of idiots.
There's lions? AWESOME!

Set up some cage traps, quick!

[AgentPaper]

If I can't beat em, you sure as hell know I'm joining them.

Expect a large monument and powerful military force after my reign assuming its plausable with what I'm given.

Could we atleast do a size limit to the burial chamber size so we aren't trying to one up eachother and agree not to mess with eachother's tombs? =/

No size limits! As far as I'm concerned, if we go the path of the Egyptians and bleed ourselves dry building larger and larger monuments, then we have WON dwarf fortress. :smallamused:

[TheSummoner]

No size limits! As far as I'm concerned, if we go the path of the Egyptians and bleed ourselves dry building larger and larger monuments, then we have WON dwarf fortress. :smallamused:

Ok, you've swayed me... Mine will be a monument that rivals the GODS themselves, and if countless sla... dwarves have to die in the process, SO BE IT!!!

[Aergoth]

Will do. As soon as I have cages.

[Justyn]

How's it coming along, Aergoth?

[Terror_Incognito]

Since this currently the most active Dwarf Fortress thread I have a few questions regarding my current Fort (it's a VERY nice spot).

Firstly: How dangerous is it to take water from the 2nd Z-level of a brook for irrigation? I have resevoirs set up, but I want to know if I will lose a miner to tap the brook?

Secondly: When I dig out my magma pit for forges and the like will it flood out of a channel?

[Rockphed]

Since the other thread is still on the first page, I'll respond to your questions there. Lets keep this thread restricted to discussion directly related to the succession game.

[Aergoth]

Finished 15th of Granite (I didn't realize that I was in spring.)
I'll send it along to the next person in line and start getting all of my wonderful pictures and commentary on the first year done. Warning, there's going to have to be obfustication.

[Gwyn chan 'r Gwyll]

mmm... obfustication.

Reminds me, I would like to be added to the list. I'm not too good, but I know the basics!

[TheSummoner]

Shouldn't be a problem... by the time either of us get to go, the basic setup should be done so at that point its mostly maintanence and monuments...

[Aergoth]

No problem Gwyn. I'll slot you in after one of the oldbies so you've got a solid base. Anyone else want to be shuffled while I'm mucking around with the list? Bear in mind, the number two spot is FIXED.

[Aergoth]

Behold. The first of quite a few posts of the epic story of INKYSAVANTS!

Why do they keep asking me to do things. Take this for example. They want me to set up a fortress. At least it's not in the arse of nowhere like that last one. So, I get on the wagon with six other idiots that apparently the boss didn't like, drawn by a bunch of idiots, and there's four dogs and three cats in it with us, not to mention the food, booze and stuff that we can't touch. Oh, right, the name. Inkysavants. I can't stand the people who do **** like this.
http://img13.imageshack.us/img13/4659/ink1we6.th.png (http://img13.imageshack.us/my.php?image=ink1we6.png)

So we get there. It's actually not half bad, except for the boulder strewn all over the valley, and the general lack of everything. There's even running water and plants. God these places make me sick. Give me blood and miasma any day of the week. At least we won't have to worry about running out of things to drink. There's at least 300 units of the stuff. We'll be eating a lot of fish though, well turtle.

http://img10.imageshack.us/img10/620/ink2vr6.th.png (http://img10.imageshack.us/my.php?image=ink2vr6.png)

Disassembled the wagon, told the two idiots with picks to start digging. It's really strange. There's this brook right. On the side with the wagon, oh look! grass! the other side? Mudstone WASTELAND. Take a look. I've been doing some sketches, sort of.

http://img15.imageshack.us/img15/9866/ink8yj6.th.png (http://img15.imageshack.us/my.php?image=ink8yj6.png)

It's like an invisible LINE One side is nice and happy, sand and trees and grass and flowers. Hippie stuff. The other side, barren wasteland. Mudstone boulders and nothing but mudstone until you hit the other side of the valley.

First order of business. Turn's out half the one side of the valley (the side with the green stuff) is SAND. No way I'm living there. So, we'll put up the workshops over there. Build an nice tunnel under the brook, two or three metres down, and come up on the other side of the barren wasteland. Then we can put nice little happy signs up. We have three cats. Did I mention I don't like cats? I decided to put some rope to good use. Maybe they were supposed to be for wells. I don't see any buckets, so I'm just going to rope a damned cat to the entrance. It'll keep the damned maggots out at least.

http://img10.imageshack.us/img10/6372/ink4jc4.th.png (http://img10.imageshack.us/my.php?image=ink4jc4.png)

These people are faliures, no wonder they got rid of them. Can't even think for themselves. I've told them to start moving the damned supplies out of the open air. You know, in case it rains? Armok strike me where I stand if that doesn't make sense. You'd think they'd never thought of that. They don't even put the garbage away! Did I mention the LUNGFISH! There's fish, flopping out on the ground. It's creeping me out.

http://img13.imageshack.us/img13/9868/ink5pm1.png


((So I forgot to start adding dates until about... mid/late summer. Mea culpa.))

[Justyn]

http://img10.imageshack.us/img10/6372/ink4jc4.th.png (http://img10.imageshack.us/my.php?image=ink4jc4.png)

Just to let you know, if that is the fortress entrace, then I'm going to have to build a new one somewhere else, and in a far diferent manner, that entrance is terrible for anything even remotely militaristic. Sorry for the bluntness of this, but building the entrance so close to the river...

[Aergoth]

It's a brook, so forcefield. The final plan was going to be to wall it off and build a roof over it to provide water to the fortress. Or redivert it underground to the chasm so I could build a well. I made a moat out of part of it With a bi-part bridge. It's defensible, trust me. But yeah. You can wall it off soon. You might need it until the planned entrance on the west side of the map is open.

I'll get it hosted, I've zipped everything you need together. Also, there's notes everywhere on the map. Suggestions really, but I've plotted out my intended plans. It's not a centralized fortress by any means.

[TheSummoner]

No comments, although I question why one would need so many cats...

I'm just going to wait til my turn and see what I have to work with...

But a few questions for my own personal game... nothing to do with fortress layout, since I have a good design that works for me... but...

1) I've read you can settle near a goblin fortress and have your starting 7 try to take out the goblins... whenever I've tried to do this, the goblins are all friendly... what am I doing wrong?

2) In cold and temperate areas, the water is suppose to freeze for part of the year, yet the best I've ever gotten towards frozen water was a few small patches of ice (not enough to dam a river) on a cold map... I can live without damming the river, and even if I couldn't, my current map has a magma pipe so I could just block it off with obsidian if I ever needed to, but I'd really like someone to explain how the freeze/thaw works (and I don't want to go to a freezing map since those are frozen year-round).

Edit: I thought of a succession game-related question, what is the evil and savagery on the map? I'm personally fond of terrifying areas, so nothings to threatening for me in that aspect, but I'm rather curious.

[Aergoth]

We're on a moderately savage neutral map.

If you were to put it on a 3x3 grid. We'd be the same location as true neutral.

[Artanis]

In terms of what that means for our fortres:
There's plenty of critters, but not eight metric ****tons of them.
Said critters are "normal", not fancy-smanshy fantasy animals or murderous skeletal monstrosities.

[TheSummoner]

So mere moderately saavage? Ah well, looks like I'll have to occupy myself with something other than killing vicious animals... perhaps something involving magma...

[AgentPaper]

No magma either, but we've got water and a bottomless pit...somewhere.

[Aergoth]

There's a chasm full of batmen. I offer you this as a replacement. Oh. And you can kill lungfish. They creep me out. LUNGFISH! Seriously. Lungfish. NOT. NORMAL!! (My fortress has no water in it (we're dwarves. Water is for the dying and the stupid.) and there are FISH in my fortress.)

[TheSummoner]

*sigh* I really prefer magma, but I suppose a chasm would work... and maybe if theres enough room left, I could set up a nice drown chamber... I'm so very fond of them ^_^

Though I usually just make the only way into my fortress a long channel that floods with a pull of a lever from a large chamber... the water chamber also fills a well located near a large dining hall... and since I finally have a map for my own personal game with most of the things I want AND magma, its going to feed my obsidian production chamber ^_^

Still... that takes more than a year to set up so a smaller but still functional chamber will have to do...

[Justyn]

*sigh* I really prefer magma, but I suppose a chasm would work... and maybe if theres enough room left, I could set up a nice drown chamber... I'm so very fond of them ^_^

Though I usually just make the only way into my fortress a long channel that floods with a pull of a lever from a large chamber... the water chamber also fills a well located near a large dining hall... and since I finally have a map for my own personal game with most of the things I want AND magma, its going to feed my obsidian production chamber ^_^

Still... that takes more than a year to set up so a smaller but still functional chamber will have to do...

Why bother with all that when a hallway full of weapon traps jammed full of large, serrated discs will perform far, far better with less of a reload time?

[TheSummoner]

Well, a few reasons, first of all is the cost... using a long hallway filled with weapon traps armed with large, serrated discs is efficient, but depending on how many discs you use per trap, its either more expensive or MUCH more expensive... Later in the game that isn't an issue, but still...

And I realize its a game, but as soon as you ignore that fact, it becomes so much more satisfying to watch them scramble hopelessly to escape than merely chop them to bits...

Weapon traps can jam.

Reload time isn't really an issue, I set it up to be fed from automated screw pumps from a nearby river. It fills fast enough between seiges.

I never said my way was the most efficient, but I still prefer it because I think its more fun that way. By all means, if you go after me, feel free to fill my drowning chamber with weapon traps as a backup.

I also enjoy cage traps ^_^ So much fun you can have with prisoners, especially if you have access to a little magma.

[AgentPaper]

Why bother with all that when a hallway full of weapon traps jammed full of large, serrated discs will perform far, far better with less of a reload time?

:smallconfused: Why would you do that? There's practically no chance of it backfiring and destroying your entire Fortress! And you can't even link up up to a single un-marked lever of doom in the middle of the dining hall! :smalleek:

[TheSummoner]

Agent, just for you, if I do a drown chamber, there will be a lever that drowns the entire fortress ^_^

[Aergoth]

Rockfall and cage traps. Half the trouble, twice the benefit.

[AgentPaper]

I see I have much to teach you in the ways of the doomlever. I will put the fear of The Lever into these dwarves, I'll tell you that much!

[TheSummoner]

Meh, I never cared for rockfall traps... cage are useful because its guaranteed to stop anything that touches it, but rockfall are comparably weak to other traps... if it can't stop a dragon in a single hit, I'm not interested!

[Destro_Yersul]

Hmm. I think my favourite way to trap the entrance depends on how far in I am. On one map I have sand and magma, so I pumped it full of weapon traps with 10 large green glass discs each. That was fun. It mangled pretty much anything that went through.

I could see doing something with a diverted river and a chasm and retractable bridges, though... Must look into this.

Oh, while I'm here, mind moving me up on the list a bit? not too much, but I'd like to be a bit sooner in the line-up.

[Destro_Yersul]

*bump*

What's going on with this? Anything new?

[Gwyn chan 'r Gwyll]

Hey Aergoth, do you have the savegame yet?

[Moose Fisher]

Aergoth, if you're unable to provide the savegame, we can always shift to a community fortress.

I want a speardwarf/fisher named Oskar... With the profession title of Moose Fisher.:smallbiggrin:

[Aergoth]

I've got the savegame. I just need to remember to put it onto a site. Eurgh. Though if we do need to kill time in between (since some of us are rather far down the list), someone could start up a community fortress if they want. I'll pass along the world if anyone wants it.

[Terror_Incognito]

<Bump>
Hi all, just checking in to make sure I haven't missed my chance to reduce Inkysavant to a hellish nightmare realm, ruled by maddwarfs.
</Bump>

[Wardog]

Meh, I never cared for rockfall traps... cage are useful because its guaranteed to stop anything that touches it, but rockfall are comparably weak to other traps... if it can't stop a dragon in a single hit, I'm not interested!

Plus, there's something particularly satisfying about caging an entire elven ambush party, and then throwing them all down a 17 z-level Pit of Doom. And then covering your fortress with engravings commemorating it :smallbiggrin:

(And btw - why, in my current game are all my ambushes by elves? No elven traders ever showed up and no diplomat came to complain about me cutting down trees. My First Contact with a local elven civilization was an ambush, and on the "civilizations" screen, they are listed as exporting "Terror" and importing "Retribution", the same as the goblins.)


And finally, how's the succession game going? I might be interested in joining.

[Maxymiuk]

(And btw - why, in my current game are all my ambushes by elves? No elven traders ever showed up and no diplomat came to complain about me cutting down trees. My First Contact with a local elven civilization was an ambush, and on the "civilizations" screen, they are listed as exporting "Terror" and importing "Retribution", the same as the goblins.)


That means your starting civilization was still at war with the elven civilization after worldgen finished. So instead of merchants, you get ambushers (a more than fair trade in my opinion).

[Galliun]

I too am interested in joining. Any chance there are still openings?

[Galliun]

Doo dee dum, twiddle doo...

*whistles*