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Epinephrine
2009-01-27, 11:49 AM
I'm DMing, and having some trouble with how to rule on some situations involving these things. Some of it makes perfect sense, while I'm having trouble with other bits.

First - surprise. Surprise round occurs when one side is "aware" of the other. What constitues "awareness" - knowing exactly where things are, able to observe them in some way, able to infer their presence?

Yes or no:
See enemy, they don't see you: Obvious yes, you have a surprise round.
Hear enemy, can't see them?
Smell enemy, no idea where it is?
Your scout gave the "ambush" whistle/handsign, but you have no idea where they are.
Know that enemy exists (hear them through door, coming this way)?
Suspect that enemy exists (dining room, dinner time, you expect that there are guards in there having their meal)?

Readied actions: Can you ready out of combat? What is the consequence of this?
While X picks the lock, I keep my bow trained on *that* window overlooking the courtyard, ready to fire if a face appears.
I ready an action to shoot the first one of them to step forward.
The elevator is rumbling? I ready an action to fireball into it when the door opens.
I ready an action to fireball straight into the room, on a course for a square about 30 feet infront of me (if it hits a wall I don't care) into the room when X here kicks the door open.

What can you ready to do? I get that you can ready a move or a standard, and that you can 5' step if needed.

Can you ready a spear to attack when someone comes into reach, and 5' step back after? Thus getting your readied action and possibly an AoO?

When you ready a spear (set it against a charge), what happens if the opponent decides not to charge? Can he tell that you've readied it against a charge? (I think so...) Can he just walk up to you and hit you (assuming he doesn't trigger an AoO - we'll say he has spring attack, for sake of the example)?

If you ready a move action (if the enemy breathes fire at you) to move behind full cover, does the enemy have to use his action to do so? Readied actions technically happen first.

How loose can the conditions be for a readied action?
"if any of those guys steps up next to me"
"if anyone other than my party is adjacent to me"
"if he does X or Y"
"if he targets me with a spell"
"if he casts a hostile spell that I recognise" "if anything lunges out of the water"
"If he flies less than 50 feet above the ground, anywhere over the water, or within charge distance of any of our party"
"I ready an action to close the door if he throws his returning dagger through the doorway"

Reaper_Monkey
2009-01-27, 01:38 PM
I'm no rules lawyer, far from (I prefer to play half freestyle, common sense trumps rules as long as there is balance involved) however I'll give these a bash.

Surprise rounds: These can act on some but not all of the party, depending on who is aware of the enemy, those who are not to not get to act on this round, those who are can (thus half your/their party are flat-footed and take no actions, while the other half that saw you/you saw act normally). Being aware can be deduced through hearing seeing or even smelling, if correct checks have been made to state it (if need be), spotting someone giving a signal or blowing a whistle id count as being just as good (as you know *something* is going to happen and are therefore not standing around unaware) but only if the signal itself is spotted (no looking at your navel).

Readying actions: You can only ready half actions (so standard actions and single move actions) no full round actions or swift/quick movements (free actions can be taken whenever you like, but I guess you can ready them if your so inclined), it takes a standard action to ready an action. A readied action only lasts until you your next turn, where if you wish you may make another readied action until you get bored and do something else. Thus they can be made "out of combat" infact thats half of their use. Also note, when a readied action takes place your initiative moves to that point in the initiative list. Readying an action to do something before something else happens can only occur should you have a sign that this is going to happen (so no "I ready an action to use my ring of teleportation before the invisible stalker hits me" unless you hear the invisible stalker sneaking up on you and judge that he will hit you).

Now that brief overview is done ill answer your questions more exactly.



Yes or no:
Hear enemy, can't see them? No surprise round
Smell enemy, no idea where it is? No surprise round
Your scout gave the "ambush" whistle/handsign, but you have no idea where they are. No surprise round, for this person if they spotted that whistle/handsign
Know that enemy exists (hear them through door, coming this way)?No surprise round
Suspect that enemy exists (dining room, dinner time, you expect that there are guards in there having their meal)?Hard to say, if you dont see them, then surprise round, if you do then not, they could all be invisible for instance so suspecting it isn't good enough

Readied actions: Can you ready out of combat? What is the consequence of this? Yes you can, it simply moves your initiative to the top of the list should the event your readying to occurs within the next 6 seconds (a round) unless your permanently readying (and then its until you give up readying)
While X picks the lock, I keep my bow trained on *that* window overlooking the courtyard, ready to fire if a face appears.Perfectly fine, the action is readied
I ready an action to shoot the first one of them to step forward. Same again, I'd say they'd all have to be within a limited field of view, so you can act as soon as you see it, but fine still
The elevator is rumbling? I ready an action to fireball into it when the door opens.Fine again, although hope its not a friendly
I ready an action to fireball straight into the room, on a course for a square about 30 feet infront of me (if it hits a wall I don't care) into the room when X here kicks the door open. Again, fine, infact a common use of it, but watch out for fragile loot that you might blow up (as I often put in rooms so this doesnt happen all the time)

What can you ready to do? I get that you can ready a move or a standard, and that you can 5' step if needed.Anything that is covered as a standard or move action available to you, from hitting things, pulling levers, opening doors, stabbing companions or busting into tears

Can you ready a spear to attack when someone comes into reach, and 5' step back after? Thus getting your readied action and possibly an AoO?I'm not too sure you can move back actually, a readied action is *just* a standard or move action, but I'm not too sure about free 5ft steps

When you ready a spear (set it against a charge), what happens if the opponent decides not to charge? Nothing, your waiting incase they do
Can he tell that you've readied it against a charge? (I think so...) Yes, you have to be prepared to take that action, thus youd have the spear out and braced acordinglyCan he just walk up to you and hit you (assuming he doesn't trigger an AoO - we'll say he has spring attack, for sake of the example)? He can, but you do still get an AoO because he enters a square you threaten (im pretty sure spear has reach)

If you ready a move action (if the enemy breathes fire at you) to move behind full cover, does the enemy have to use his action to do so? Readied actions technically happen first.This is a bit of an odd one, you can argue that the breathing of the fire takes time to get to you, which as your ready to leap behind a rock or whatnot means you can do it before getting singed, however if your just jumping behind if it looks like hes taking a deep breath *ready* to breath fire, then in theory he can see you jumping behind and target someone else with it (but still take that action i'd say)... I've no idea how much of this is to RAW, but thats how I'd rule it

How loose can the conditions be for a readied action?
"if any of those guys steps up next to me"Field of view based
"if anyone other than my party is adjacent to me"Harder, I'd say no to this one, unless its "If any of that horde of goblins gets close to me"
"if he does X or Y"Um, as long as its similar enough, so "if he draws a weapon or seems to be casting a spell" Id accept, but not "if he scratches his nose or if he happens to stand on a red square on the floor"
"if he targets me with a spell"Hard to gauge who is being targeted when it comes to spells, I'd not allow this, no idea about RAW
"if he casts a hostile spell that I recognise"Fine, make sure you take a spellcraft check though
"if anything lunges out of the water"Fine, half of the point of it
"If he flies less than 50 feet above the ground, anywhere over the water, or within charge distance of any of our party"not a chance, too complex to gauge with speed
"I ready an action to close the door if he throws his returning dagger through the doorway"Yeah thats fine, although if he throws a normal dagger that looks like its of returning then youd end up closing the door still id say

hope thats helped a bit =)

Keld Denar
2009-01-27, 01:46 PM
You can slip into "combat mode" as soon as you are aware of an enemy, regardless of how you become aware. Anyone on your side who is actually aware would automatically get a surprise round, and anyone on the other side who would become aware at the same time also gets the surprise round. Other than that, roll off init normally. The other guys can roll init without realizing they are being attacked, since they are controlled by the DM.

No, you can not ready an action out of combat. Its in the rules. You can once you go into combat rounds though, see above.

You can take a 5' step as part of a readied action, assuming you qualify to take a 5' step (ie haven't taken any other type of movement this round). This is really useful for dealing with things like Dread Wraiths, which have reach, spring attack, and the ability to attack from the floor, walls, and ceiling. Unless you have a reach weapon, you have to ready an attack with a 5' step to hit them.

You can also take a move as a standard action, which means that you can ready an action to move around a corner in response to something. Your enemy could just retarget one of your allies though, so you haven't really cost him anything and lost your own action.

And conditions for ready can be as specific or vague as your DM requires. Some DMs requires you specify between "next person" and "next foe" while others are more lax about it, and others won't let you have too specific triggers because its harder to make critical judgements in the split second between the trigger and the result.

EDIT:
While Reaper Monkey is following what he thinks is commons sense, hes actually wrong on a couple points.

PHB, pg. 160, left column, 4th paragraph states specifically that you CAN take a 5' step

Also, just under the heading Special Initiative Actions, it says "Here are ways to change when you act during combat by altering your place in initiative order." Ready is covered under this. If you are readying, you are in combat. You can't ready out of combat. If you are effectively "ready" out of combat, then you automatically get to act in the suprise round, although a foe might get to act before you still if something allows them to act in the suprise round as well.

Curmudgeon
2009-01-27, 03:27 PM
The standard way combat starts is that somebody makes a successful Spot or Listen check, or if they have the Scent ability. The rules do not allow readying an action before combat starts. (Everybody is assumed to be as ready as they can maintain for long durations when outside of combat.) And sometimes combat doesn't start, because neither the PCs nor the wandering monsters detect each other. Maybe the PCs don't make their Spot checks, and the breeze is going the wrong way for the monster to be able to rely on Scent.