Relationship Woes and Advice, The Seventh Saga

[Syka]

Well...After the confession thread, I saw way too many "what do I do in this situation" threads popping up, so here is one nice compendium. Come here to post questions about how to approach the opposite sex, the dread first date and, should you be in a relationship already and fairly certain they don't read Giant, a place to complain/seek advice about a current flame.

If you'd rather not make it public, I will compile a list in this thread of people who will accept PM's to give advice.

The biggest bit of advice I've seen bandied around is the truest- no matter what else is true about the situation, always be yourself. It's no good to act like someone else, because eventually the true you will come out and the other person will not be happy you hid that from them.

Rules Of Relationships:
#1- Communicate. If you can't talk with your partner, it's probably not going to work.

#2- Be yourself. Admittedly, if you have some really bad habits you should probably try to change them, but be honest about who you are. No one wants to find out they were loving a lie, and no one likes to live a lie (...well, normally).

#3- Accept your partner. In mine, and other people's, experience you have to be able to accept your partner as they are, because they probably won't be able to change. Also, don't change drastically for someone. I've tried it, my friends have tried it, it doesn't work and it doesn't end pretty.

#4- Hints. Do. Not. Work. Or they might, but the chance of that happening is limited. Some people are like me and just utterly oblivious unless it is blatantly stated, others are (also like me) and don't want to assume, and yet others don't care. You won't know which they belong to unless you actually spell out your intentions and/or feelings. I would consider this a corrolery to Rule #1 except that it comes up so often. Do NOT assume someone should know something from hints. Hints, by nature, are subtle. Clue Bats/Crow Bars/Mack Trucks are not. Try hitting them with one of those. ;) (No, not literally. I mean be upfront if you are trying to get someone to know something.)

Private Advice Givers:
Eh, I'm pretty sure any regular has an open PM box for you.


RULES. YOU READ THESE.
-Anything of a sexual nature, please PM to either myself or one of the regular advice givers. If you just want general opinions post something like: "I have this problem, but it is not board appropriate. Could one of you guys PM me?" I know from experience that you will in fact get help.

-KEEP IT NICE. Disagreements are bound to happen, but please don't be rude.

-Joking is all fun and games, within reasons. Please do not get derogatory.

I decided to put this up because, evidently, it was not apparent that these should be followed. I do not want this thread to be scrubbed again, and we were blessed to get it back.

Cheers,
Syka

[Pyrian]

It looks like the banners are all dead links.

[Syka]

OK, I'll take them down I guess. If Felix wants to repost them, that'd be awesome.

Cheers~

[skywalker]

Ok, I'm going to respond here to the outpouring of advice I received, since I know kung fu (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EmEPXXJ4sKw) tab fu...

Some statements that jumped out at me:
1. That's a ridiculous situation.
2. Why did she even need a date-date in order to go and dance at all? One can dance with friends without taking someone as a date, yes? Or even just go with her girlfriends and dance with thems as aren't attached at the pelvis to boytoys for the entirety of the dance.

3. Yeah, she's been silly, but she's probably more defensive about you seeming to be making her feel bad about having fun than actually having any ill intent.
4. Grinding is always sexual due to the fact that the genitals are stimulated, most especially in the male. If it's not all but frottage, it ain't grinding. And that's a no-no that should have been laid down from the get-go and communicated about clearly if it was to be an issue.

5. So yeah, she's defensive, you both failed to communicate about what would and would not be happening due to her dancing with others, you're upset...

It's not exactly a "go without a date" type of dance. It's sort of like prom, you can go without a date, but it is socially less acceptable.

I'm with you about the "it's always sexual" thing. She claims she can demonstrate to me the sort of non-sexual grinding that took place. We'll see. She admitted that it is, at the very least, always suggestive.

I really didn't know I had a choice in the matter of her dancing. She asked me if I would be ok with her taking him to the Sadie Hawkins dance (Christ that school has a lot of dances), and I said yes, as much as I was ok with her taking him to this dance, and the dancing that went on. I had assumed she knew I wasn't ok with it, because I thought it had come up as an issue in the past. Apparently, she hadn't. I understand somewhat better where the defensive-ness is coming from. She thought it strange I had picked now to suddenly start caring about it.

Serp:She oddly drew the same comparison, that a tango would be more worrisome. I feel, personally, that there are reasons to tango besides the sexual element, all the steps, etc. Grinding, by contrast, has no attractive elements besides the sex and the ease of the dance. Pelvises/organs were definitely touching in this example.

Ranna:She said she would be fine with this, and my best friend actually recommended the same course of action. I find myself not wanting to. I also remember what happened the last time she told me she was ok with something I suspected she wasn't (it was bad).

xPx:It's not that I worried, just that I find it inappropriate and don't want my girlfriend doing it.

To all, I have an update, I called her today and we talked some more about it, she said she was prepared to tell whoever her date to this next dance was that that was not ok. She didn't like it, but she was prepared. I explained to her that I don't even like her going to dances with other guys at all, and I think I'm already making that and other compromises in our relationship, and so I didn't think asking her to not dance in one specific way was a large thing to ask for. She agreed. She also asked me to prom, which I declined.

Thanks for the advice, guys.

[Syka]

So...why can't you go to the dances with her? I know at least at schools around here you could still go even if you weren't a student (and, I'm assuming, didn't look like you were like 40 or something). If you are only a year or two off, you'd still have been able to go here. I know a number of people dating above/below them that still got to go to dances with their SO's.

[skywalker]

So...why can't you go to the dances with her? I know at least at schools around here you could still go even if you weren't a student (and, I'm assuming, didn't look like you were like 40 or something). If you are only a year or two off, you'd still have been able to go here. I know a number of people dating above/below them that still got to go to dances with their SO's.

Students are allowed to take dates from outside the school to Winter Formal and to Prom, altho in my day there was (and I think there still is) a form involving the signature of the principal of the date's school. Who the hell would I get the signature of, the dean of my college? That's just a comment on the absurdity of my situation.

This here Sadie Hawkins that she wants to take him to, no, I cannot attend. My school had some (a lot) of trouble with students drinking, outside guests not behaving properly, etc, and so now dances have much stricter regulations compared to when I was in my first two years there.

Beyond the regulations, I don't really want to go to Winter Formal/Prom. She thought she was taking me to Prom last year, which is why her eventual date now has a shirt that is far too large for him. But I am (obviously) well known to her classmates, given that I was a senior when they were freshmen. And it could turn out one of two ways. They could remember me as the cool guy they thought I was when I was a senior (seriously, those kids love me), or they could see me as the creepy college guy hanging around at a high school dance. I just don't want to chance that 2nd one, because frankly, we always classified guys who did that as the second, not the first. Now, I'm not sure it was ever a graduate doing that, but I still don't want to be that creep.

[Felixaar]

OK, I'll take them down I guess. If Felix wants to repost them, that'd be awesome.


Damn, that would be awesome.

I'll do me best...

Skywalker, I think I should start of by saying that theres a problem with the world if there is a dance known as "Grinding." Especially if it's acceptable at a school dance.

Anyway... I suppose you just need to see what happens as time goes on. If it's really that big a difference between you, then you have things you need to consider. Since it's a freedom you don't want, maybe you should trade it in for a different freedom?

I dunno mate. You've done the good thing and talked to her about it, if she refuses to compromise then I guess you have to take stock of how big an issue it is and make your choice from there.

[Edge of Dreams]

going to be as concise as I can here, maybe oversimlifying a few of the situations, but I want to give an overview, not details.


Timeline:
First girlfriend, high school through first year of college, 2 and a half years, barely got up to kissing, boy were we both repressed/scared/whatever.

Second year of college - spent some time trying not to think about dating, then had my first experiences with "sorry I'm busy" type excuses and finding out a girl I'm interested in is already taken.

Start of third year of college - second "girlfriend" if you can call her that, only free one day a week to hang out, and after a couple months of taking it slow, told me she wasn't going to kiss anyone until she's engaged. Yeah, that wasn't going to work for me.

Second half of third year of college through now, midway through fourth year: 1) First date, then sorry, old boyfriend is back. 2)Seriously interested in girl, but she's just gotten out of a long relationship. After spending a significant amount of time around her, I find out she's finally gotten together with another guy (yes, she knew I was interested). Says I was "too much like her last boyfriend". 3) get to pseudo-first-date, then inquire about future dating, she's not interested. 4) Ask out friend I've known for a year or so. After first date she informs me that she's so busy with school that she's happy to be single right now (why didn't you tell me sooner? grr arg). A few months later, we end up snogging on a couch after a party - my first french kiss and first serious make-out, as far as I've gotten with a girl even up to today. 5) Meet girl at folk dance, go out on one date, then she's so busy we'll pretty much never get to hang out again for a couple months. Never heard back from her (not that I tried that hard after hearing that). 6) Meet random girl, get to *Second* date, then she gives me a "just friends" email. 7) Finally decide to stop putting up with mixed signals from close female friend and tell her that I'm interested if she is. She turns me down, apparently afraid she'll "walk all over me" and "hurt me". She's a really dominant type, and I'm pretty passive, so I explained that I didn't mind that dynamic. She still says no.

During this time there were also at least a couple girls who turned out to not be single or lived too far away or some other coincidence that stopped me from trying to get past the first conversation.


So, I am incredibly frustrated by the *seven* rejections I have gotten over the last year. I'm also rather frustrated by how little I've gotten to experience in the physical side of relationships. Now, I'm a fairly conservative romantic idealist who was raised Christian, but regardless of whether I'm putting off sex 'til mairrage, I'd still like to have a little fun along the way.

Part of my brain is screaming "Love me!" I want *someone* to hang out with, cuddle with, share my secrets with. The other part of my brain, of course, is screaming "I wanna get laid!" This is all adding up to put me in a serious funk, and it's starting to seriously affect my ability to deal with just normal life.

I'm an outgoing, intelligent, decent-looking guy. I have no problem with confidence - I can start a conversation with almost anyone, and friends joke that I flirt with every girl I meet. Somehow, I can get first dates, no problem, but nothing ever goes past that. One of my friends even said "You're a great fisherman, your problem is that you're all catch-and-release".

All in all... WTF?
Help, please?

[Pyrian]

Ooof, Edge. Well, it could be just a string of bad luck. More likely, you're doing something wrong, but guessing what from my perspective would be like playing Minesweeper on expert mode except without the little numbers - how the heck would I know? I guess all I can suggest is running down Serpentine's list, but I think you've already got it reasonably covered.

Serpentine's famous list: http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=3566241&postcount=483


I think I should start of by saying that theres a problem with the world if there is a dance known as "Grinding."Gah, you people want to take all the fun out of life. :smallwink: ...Hell, grinding's the best thing I got last year. :smallyuk: So who the hell am I to be giving relationship advice!? ...Sigh.

[Serpentine]

Serpentine's famous list: http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=3566241&postcount=483[/COLOR]Whee, I's famous! :smallbiggrin:

Wait... It isn't just famous cuz I keep pointing people to it, is it? :smalltongue:

[Edge of Dreams]

Whee, I's famous! :smallbiggrin:

Wait... It isn't just famous cuz I keep pointing people to it, is it? :smalltongue:

Nah, it's actually a pretty good basic list. Thanks for the link, Pyrian.

I don't think any of that is really my problem, though. I mean, I'm not perfect running down the whole list, but nothing stands out to me that would be a consistent major turn off to every single one of my past dates. I mean, I've had dates with girls who already knew me for quite a while, so I can't be too inherently disgusting, right?

[Serpentine]

Well, lets see now...
You have no problem asking people out, obviously. And they're often quite willing to go on at least one date, right? Three possibilities:
1. Bad luck. It could just be that you happen to keep catching these girls at just the wrong time. All you can do with that is try not to let it get to you and keep on trying.
2. There's something wrong with your first dates. What do you do, or have you done? Do you come on too strong, maybe? Too light? Are they too formal, or too casual? How does conversation go?
3. You fail at follow-up. Looking at some of your stories, you seem to bail pretty quickly, at the very first sign of difficulty (Second college year, 4)), effort (5)) or some issue (Start of 3rd year (though you did well to hold out for months)). If you're really interested in someone, try to go to that effort after the first date. Maybe you just haven't met the person you're that into.

[xPANCAKEx]

Edge - from reading it i'd be more inclined to ask more into your first date manners: Whats your mindset going into the first date? How do you act? Whats your body language like?

And a the toughest question of all (and you really have to be honest with yourself here, after reading what you said in your original post) - are you desperate?

relatedly: Being too laid back can across as either eager to please or too scared to say no. After your response to your dominant friend saying you wouldn't mind it if she walked all over you (as that is effectively what you said), i'd be inclined to say the former. Theres a massive difference between being laid back and being a push over, so make sure if you have boundries you state them and stick to them.

stating the obvious here, so i don't neccisarily know if it applies, or if you already know:
if you're too intense/upfront/latched-on on the first date then its a no-go. A first date is all about showing the other person they can have a good time around you in a romantic setting, NOT act as an interview to see if the other person is compatible to be your life partner.

[Coidzor]

You ever have moments where the loneliness just comes upon you and bites and claws and tears tatters in your Self?

I'm not quite sure what it is, but I think the nostalgia of the rain-water and the sound of the falling tree limbs in the ice is serving as a trigger.

Sliding in and out of lucidity. *phew* It just passed but I still feel sick from it in the pit of my stomache.

Something about being up when everyone and everything else with half a brain has long since passed out if nothing else. Just makes me lonely and think of her. Yearn, even. Bleh.

I need someone to smack me upside the head.

V: I always wonder how to make myself who I want to be... or at least feel I should be instead of the shell that displeases me and those around me.

Haven't figured it out yet, but I seem to be muddling through things ok for the most part.

[Ichneumon]

I just read Serpentine's list, it completely destroyed my self-confidence.:smalleek:

so much that I do wrong.... so much....

[Serpentine]

Hey, it's Icky! =D
Hm. That's not... quite the outcome I was looking for with that... Don't forget, they're not all "right/wrong" questions. I just wanted it to be a starting-point for introspection and assessing how you come across to other people, maybe a trigger for improvement.
Just make yourself, who you want to be =/

[Quincunx]

[snipped]. . .I need someone to smack me upside the head.

V: I always wonder how to make myself who I want to be... or at least feel I should be instead of the shell that displeases me and those around me.

Haven't figured it out yet, but I seem to be muddling through things ok for the most part.

Going to loop together the last few days' worth of posts here, since I've had to catch up.

Creeping out someone who ought to be a peer in skeeviness, and that over the Internet where only the words count, hints that something is not OK. Getting a restraining order laid against you screams that your interpersonal relations are not OK. Earlier, in order to soften the blows and allow for the ambiguity of the 'net, I hinted that both your girl troubles might've been the girl's fault. I retract that. Get yourself to a counselor. Have someone who can see you in real life, in totality, figure out what's intimidating others.

[Gray Jester]

I just read Serpentine's list, it completely destroyed my self-confidence.:smalleek:

so much that I do wrong.... so much....

Don't worry, we all have to start somewhere. And that list, Serp, is pretty impressive. I only skimmed it last time, this time I read it through fully: it's pretty accurate for both genders, while still being vague enough that it's applicable. There are some gender specific things that could be added under "hygiene", which would change it more to "health/hygiene", but they aren't absolutely necessary.

Fortunately for many guys, you don't have to do -every last thing- on that list: usually basic hygiene (teeth, deodorant, washing up), the basic social skills one (knowing when to leave/stay, ability to converse), and the more basic style ones (look in Men's fashion magazines/websites, they exist and are wonderful resources*). Of course, the more you have going for you, the greater your chances are. Furthermore, most people can practice almost every thing on that list, and often more then one at a time.

*Just make sure you don't just copy it, and try to find a model with similar looks to yours. Modify the actual look slightly, but keep in mind things like fit, lines on the clothing, etc.

[Serpentine]

Thanks :smallsmile: As I say at the start of it, I'm always open to suggestions for things to add to it.

[Keinnicht]

I just read Serpentine's list, it completely destroyed my self-confidence.:smalleek:

so much that I do wrong.... so much....

Really? My response was that I do almost everything on that list and people still aren't interested in me.

I by the way, is anyone else having problems with network timeouts on this site?

[Sir_Norbert]

o (girls only) Do you shave your armpits regularly?
• This would be one of those “some like it, some hate it” ones.
o Do you shave your legs regularly?
Surely a line "This would too" or something like that needs to be added here.

[Serpentine]

Well, I said right at the start that "there are several items that may not be clear-cut, that may be totally repulsive to one person and a huge turn-on to another", and on the line you specify, I say "this would be one of those". See your point, but if I did that for every single one of those...

[Gray Jester]

Really? My response was that I do almost everything on that list and people still aren't interested in me.


Serpentine's list is good for self image and being tolerable, and it's honest: if you don't meet a majority of those, your chances with girls are cut by a great deal. Some people tolerate the things listed, but only very rarely are they considered -appealing-. If you meet most of them, pat yourself on the back.

However, there are more things in attraction then just that. For instance, is your conversation engaging and emotionally stimulating? (Emotional stimulation is pretty key, as I understand it. People like people who make them feel.) Do you come across as confident, or arrogant? (I come across as arrogant, but I try to balance that with humor. I'm working on the humility thing.) There's a notable difference between "I'd spend time with that person because they aren't gross" and "I'd date that person because I like them."

Serp, if you wouldn't object, I'd like to change your list of negatives into a list of positive steps to take, combining like ones as needed and cutting it down into a manageable list of things people can do, instead of a checkup list.

[Serpentine]

Mmmm... You can if you want. However, it was intended as a guide to looking at yourself and the manner in which you present yourself rather than a guide to doing anything, and it was also more about not repelling people rather than specifically attracting them. More "think about whether you're doing anything to turn people off", rather than the "do this to turn people on" I think you're after, y'know? But yeah, if you think it'd be useful, go ahead. I just like to... be general and have people... think about their situation and what they can come up with themselves to fix their own situation, or something like that.
Anyway... It's not all negative, is it? I mean, there's "Do you have decent manners?" and stuff...

edit: I just figured it out. I don't feel qualified to tell people what to do. If you tell them to do something, there's too much chance that it'll be completely wrong. If you get them to think about their own situation, then they can come up with a solution tailor-made to their circumstances, with an added bonus of low responsibility on your behalf.
Conclusion: I'm too unsure of myself to give direct advice :smallwink:

[sktarq]

......I'm an outgoing, intelligent, decent-looking guy. I have no problem with confidence - I can start a conversation with almost anyone, and friends joke that I flirt with every girl I meet. Somehow, I can get first dates, no problem, but nothing ever goes past that. One of my friends even said "You're a great fisherman, your problem is that you're all catch-and-release".

All in all... WTF?
Help, please?

Okay...ever thought you may be asking the wrong kind of girl on those first dates? Really. You seem to be attracted to girls who are so busy they don't have time for you....not a set-up for a win, eh? There is always frat row type parties for the "wanna get laid" part which may well help you with the air you give off on your dates in trying to actually keep a GF.
Really this is just a shot at that little darker region under the blindfold of the short post/internet but best of luck.

[Coidzor]

Get yourself to a counselor. Have someone who can see you in real life, in totality, figure out what's intimidating others.

I have good news, everyone! I am. Still no real indication of what it is.

[VeisuItaTyhjyys]

Some items of Serpentine's list are ambiguous; I recall a question about showing off one's intellect. While this can be seen as boorish and arrogant, being unafraid of your own intellect shows confidence and, obviously, intellect. It treads a rather fine line. Some, like smoking or shaving, are entirely dependant upon the person cited.

[Serpentine]

That's true. However, I wasn't just talking about being intelligent and not being afraid of showing it, I meant going out of your way to make sure that everyone knows how clever you are, leaping in ahead of everyone else to answer a question, belittling people for errors, etc.
And meh, it's allowed to be ambiguous. It's that sort of a list *shrug*

[Zeful]

Serpentine's famous list: http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=3566241&postcount=483
According to this I am doing better than I thought in the area of Social skills than I thought (with about 50% of them), though I almost completely failed the Aesthetics portion (a majority of "I don't knows" and "nos"), of course much of that I can't improve on without becoming very uncomfortable very quickly (I have no friends so would have to ask my mom, or a clerk about clothes that suit me, and that ain't happening). Though I'm curious as to what an "Unusual lack of piercings" means, there are a lot of people that don't get piercings at all (I don't have any because I don't think I'd find a pair that would suit me and I'm horribly indecisive).

[Felixaar]

Gah, you people want to take all the fun out of life. :smallwink: ...Hell, grinding's the best thing I got last year. :smallyuk:

Ohh, nothing wrong with grinding persay, but calling it a dance is kind of like referring to my compost heap as a work of art.

Edge, I think you might just be dating the wrong girls. You're looking for something a bit more long term, where these ones seem to be the mess around and then ignore you type. It can appear attractive from the outside, but blech, not a good idea in the end. Try going for some girls you wouldn't go for normally, maybe? Or try becoming friends with girls first, and getting to know them before anything else? Or maybe you should try a break from relationships for a while, just to see what happens and tempt fate? Best of luck, mate.

Coid, start hanging out with people who don't pass out quite so fast. Seriously though, I don't think I can give you any better advice than try to move on, time heals all wounds, etc. Take it easy, pal.

Opinions: How much right do I have to question the life choices of my friends?

[Serpentine]

Zeful: I don't have any piercings either. That's pretty much what I meant. Some people find them particularly attractive *shrug*
Obviously, some points on that list are much more important than others...

[Archpaladin Zousha]

I have what might be a bit of an unusual problem. Y'see, there's this person I know on another forum. They're the most prominent admin, and a fantastic roleplayer to boot. The thing is, when we were initially introduced to this person (whose username and any other aliases will remain anonymous), they claimed to be a male, and included pictures. We went with the assumptions that our admin was a guy who happened to play girl characters. Nothing wrong with that, even if some of his characters had serious issues (one being violated, and the other a sadistic murderer, and a host of others).

Years later, our admin surprises the entire forum by announcing that he is in fact a she, and includes pictures to prove it. While we're all stunned, this isn't that big a deal. We just have a good laugh, say "you sure had us fooled!" and moved on. I think that was over a year ago. Since that time, her problems only seemed to intensify apparently being placed in a mental hospital over the holidays, where she apparently learned she herself had been violated years ago and had repressed the memory. And then apparently witnessed the suicide of a friend. And yet she claimed her friends on the forum were what helped keep her from killing herself. Though her pessimism sometimes rubbed me the wrong way, we became friends, and now I'm helping co-author the campaign setting for the 4e game on the forum.

Today, a new member joined the forum with what we believed was the intent to troll the forum and slander our admin. He claimed that our admin had been lying to us this whole time. That he really was a guy the whole time. That he'd never been to a mental hospital or witnessed anyone's suicide. Naturally I leapt to the defense of my friend. I couldn't believe what he was saying. He claimed "he/she/whoever it was" had been doing something similar on a Dresden Dolls fan forum, and had just confessed the truth after hurting the feelings of several other members, and dropped the fact that if "she'd" been in a mental hospital "she" wouldn't have had internet access around 5 in the morning. One of our other admins banned the offending poster.

And now, this evening, our admin's telling us it's all true, providing links to the thread where he confessed to the other forum (they were pretty pissed.) I don't know what to say or do now. This is a person I came to trust and care about as a friend. I tried to offer "her" emotional support during her times of troubles. I was the first one to come to "her" defense when that new poster started badmouthing her. "She's" complimented me many times on the NPC's and backstory I've created for our campaign setting. And now he comes out and confesses that he's been lying to us this whole time. Lying to me! He had the entire forum eating out of the palm of his hand! What do I do!? I feel horribly, totally crushed, devastated and most of all betrayed.

[Syka]

Felix, I let my friends know if I think they are messing up, like I'd want them to tell me. I don't think I'd be a very good friend otherwise. That said, I let them know it's their choice whether or not to take the advice.

Zousha, I really don't know what to tell you. It's why I take everything online with a grain of salt, though.

[Archpaladin Zousha]

So no one has any advice? I feel like I'm gonna be sick over here.:smallfrown:

[Alleine]

@ zousha
Well, for now you can try to push it out of your mind. Do something, play a game, read a book, watch a movie. Just don't dwell on it. Trust me, you think on it and you'll only feel worse. So call up a friend or something, just don't think about it. After awhile of trying to keep busy, you really will forget about it for the moment. That should help a little bit as you sort the information a little bit unconsciously.

[celtois]

Zoushu

What it seems to be is that is person needs attention. I'd say don't take what they say to be the truth all the time. But continue to talk to them, they sound like a nice enough person and would probably be very hurt if you stopped. I understand this can be tough because they were lying about something big. But try and forgive them, keep talking to them. You obviously enjoyed talking to him in the past.

Just my penny in the pool.

[Zeful]

So no one has any advice? I feel like I'm gonna be sick over here.:smallfrown:

I have advice, but most of it would not help you except put you (and me) in jail, so I keep that advice to myself.

You could simply unassociate yourself with this admin.

[Berserk Monk]

Zousha, ask yourself which is more important: playing this campaign and the character you created for a game you like, or being able to trust someone and know they're not BS you?

I know this doesn't really answer your question, but it does present it to you, and only you can decide which is more important.

If you're really stumped, just confront the person and ask why they felt the need to lie and get them to swear never to claim say something so false and serious ever again. I know it feels hard to forgive and forget, but remember people aren't perfect. We all make mistakes, and we need to remember that, and forgive someone if they admit they were wrong and are sorry. Just don't be a doormat. If this happens again, I'm not sure I would forgive them.

[Pyrian]

Erg, post eaten... I'll try again.

Ah, Zousha. Here's one of my favorite old sayings:

"This is what optimists call a learning experience."

Seriously, though, the first reversal should have been a big, red flag that this role player was, well, into role playing. The old saying that on the internet, the men are men, the women are men, and the little girls are FBI agents is a cliche for a good reason, and that reason is that all too often it's true. For all you know, this latest round might all be wrong, too.

It's a good idea, on the 'net, to try to not care so much who these people really are. To not get too attached to the window dressing of the persona they project.

[Archpaladin Zousha]

At least one member of the forum seems not to willing to forgive, but he's kind of always been the snarky anti-social type. I know I'm not the only one who's probably taking it hard. He had EVERYONE on the forum fooled. This is gonna shake up everything!

[Pyrian]

Why must it shake everything up? It's a forum literally based on fictional identities, right? I mean, it's one thing for you to be angry at being lied to by a friend, but a lot of people are unlikely to take the second reversal any more seriously than they took the first.

[Serpentine]

Zousha: I think, in your position, I'd react just as badly. I don't have much advice... Just that I think, for your own sake, it might be good to confront them about it and get it all off your chest, then decide what to do from there.

[Quincunx]

Everyone? Did you have no females there or what? (Apologies for the generalization, but it's held up against observation. All of the people who misidentified males as females were males. Female mistakes tend more to the person's relations than to the person's identity.) All that's left is to wring some funny out of this, to salvage the face of the liar and to lighten the attachments of the fooled. Reworking the Russian doll joke (". . .and the next face to be revealed will be. . .") with a gentle touch might do.

[Archpaladin Zousha]

Why must it shake everything up? It's a forum literally based on fictional identities, right? I mean, it's one thing for you to be angry at being lied to by a friend, but a lot of people are unlikely to take the second reversal any more seriously than they took the first.

Well, most of us on the forum have developed an out-of-character friendship outside of the roleplays, and we have several out-of-character threads for general conversation and banter.

Yes, we do have females there too, and generally most of us are honest about our gender. I've never claimed to be anything but a guy. Sure one of the guys has an avatar of what he'd look like as a girl, but he doesn't deny being a guy (and the avatar is so boyish it's hard to tell anyway).

I've told these people things that I've never told anyone else, and that forum is probably the one place I can talk about my sexual preferences openly.

Most of us knew each other since when we were all on the WOTC Boards, before roleplaying on the Mature Board was banned and before the Mature Board was done away with. This admin wasn't part of that circle, and admitted to being a guy when we first met him.

And the thing is, we punished the people who were trying to warn us. He'd pulled the same garbage on their forum over the course of ten days, and had apparently hurt many feelings there. He was banned after he confessed to them. But since one of the members of that forum was also a major supporter of banning the roleplay we had on the WOTC Boards, as well as being a general detractor of our social circle, and accusing one of our other admins (who is a devout Christian, a good roleplayer and a good friend) of being a pedophile because his character's wife had the appearance of a young girl, despite the fact that she was a legal adult, we didn't believe them.

[Coidzor]

And now he comes out and confesses that he's been lying to us this whole time. Lying to me! He had the entire forum eating out of the palm of his hand! What do I do!? I feel horribly, totally crushed, devastated and most of all betrayed.

Well, I'm sure your characters and such were still good his deceit regardless. All in all it was a very suspicious situation, since in that sort of setting, why bother giving gender at all...

I recommend vomitting it out of your system first off if you have the urge to vomit. Then, cartharsis is really the only other thing I can recommend beyond the act of getting it out of your head so that it doesn't poison you.

Sorry you fell in love. gained any sort of respect, admiration, or belief of closeness between the two of you then.

V: there.

[Quincunx]

There's no love here. The loss of a false perception is not the loss of love.

[Felixaar]

Zousha, call the admin's local mental hospital and make their story a little more true? There's not really a lot you can do - I see three options. Number One, forget it ever happened and move on with life. This isn't a very fun one and I don't reccomend it as it lacks closure. Number Two, send the admin a PM about your feelings on this matter. Number Three, report the admin too whoever you can and make sure he is served justice - this sort of person should not be admining. (If you do two, better do three first so you don't get yourself banned).

[Archpaladin Zousha]

Zousha, call the admin's local mental hospital and make their story a little more true? There's not really a lot you can do - I see three options. Number One, forget it ever happened and move on with life. This isn't a very fun one and I don't reccomend it as it lacks closure. Number Two, send the admin a PM about your feelings on this matter. Number Three, report the admin too whoever you can and make sure he is served justice - this sort of person should not be admining. (If you do two, better do three first so you don't get yourself banned).

How am I supposed to call a mental hospital if I don't know which one it is? I've never been to England before!

And as for your suggestions, I'm taking a fourth option. I've talked about it with the other two main admins, and they've decided it's not worth taking action over. Regardless of who he is, he's still one of the best roleplayers on the entire forum, and we've had fun all the time.

Hell, his first character triggered the single-most dramatic and romantic story arc in the roleplay!

I've let the admin in question know that I've forgiven him. He was actually surprised. He's even changed his title on the forum from "The Misanthropic Destroyed" to "Lying Scum." I'm really starting to feel more pity for him than anger at him.

[Felixaar]

The Mental Hospital thing was a joke (though a good idea all the same, just not one you should act on) - sorry, I'll be more careful.

I'd warn against pity, it sounds like it could just be the beginning of a vicious cycle. I have to applaud your maturity, though, in forgivness - well done. I hope things work out for the better.

[Shanty Man]

Hi
I'm just going to come out with it and say that I tend to put girls off with my total madness.
I am usually singing (I am known as that singing guy)
I'm quite good at singing so that's not the problem, the problem is I'm just too weird! People think of me as "that weirdo that sings all the time" apart from my freinds that see me as "my freind weirdo that sings all the time", well you've got the point. I sing alot, I talk rubish all the time. Umm that's about it, I'm just too strainge for most girls... and I'm not that atrative. I mean what would you do if "that weirdo that sings all the time" asks you out?

[Felixaar]

Me? If I was a gal, I'd think it was pretty neat.

To be honest, i don't think theres anything wrong with singing all the time - if It's what you want to do, do it.

saying you 'talk rubbish all the time' is a bit worrying though. Do you mean, profanity, like swearing or whatever?

[Alleine]

what would you do if "that weirdo that sings all the time" asks you out?

I would be disappointed. I would've expected to be serenaded!

[Syka]

If someone who doesn't mind talking about the effects of certain intimate acts, or lack there of, in relationships could PM me I'd be grateful. It might be a bit of a long story, and some slight TMI (vague, but it's kind of necessary to my issue).

Thanks in advance.

[xPANCAKEx]

Hi
I'm just going to come out with it and say that I tend to put girls off with my total madness.
I am usually singing (I am known as that singing guy)
I'm quite good at singing so that's not the problem, the problem is I'm just too weird! People think of me as "that weirdo that sings all the time" apart from my freinds that see me as "my freind weirdo that sings all the time", well you've got the point. I sing alot, I talk rubish all the time. Umm that's about it, I'm just too strainge for most girls... and I'm not that atrative. I mean what would you do if "that weirdo that sings all the time" asks you out?

girls like guys that can make them laugh and smile. Especially extroverted guys. That way, when your choral antics make you the center of attention, she can smile and feel a bit smug and tell herself "yep. he's mine"

as long as you bring positive attention upon yourself, and can keep a lass smiling, you'll be doing just fine

[MrEdwardNigma]

Okay, so I don't usually do this, but I need to vent. Come to think of it, I don't really even have that much to tell.

Anyways, you should know that I don't like a lot of people. Or rather, I do, but I get bored of people rather fast. I have loads of friends, but I try to prevent seeing the same ones too much. There's a couple of exceptions, sure, but even them I can't talk to every day for hours.

I met this girl who I can talk to every day for hours, and did. On MSN, usually, because we're in different schools and we both had exams at different times, making this a quite inopportune moment to meet her. She's smart, interesting and talented, and I really liked this girl, even before I met her IRL (she got my MSN through her sister, and we talked a lot before actually meeting). In real life she was great as well. So I decided I liked liked this girl, or whatever you want to call it, and I told her. I asked if we could be more than friends. And she said she really, really liked me, but no. Why not? Because there was some guy she didn't even know that well who she liked. Apparently he was more handsome than me. She didn't say this, but she apologised for being shallow, so I guessed.

So I was rejected, and I don't know quite how to deal with it. It's harder for me, since there's way less people out there I could like enough, and it hurts to learn that when you finally find someone they don't like you back, not in that way.

I'm not sure if there was actually a question in there, but as I said, I needed to vent. I don't really know what to do now.

[Shanty Man]

saying you 'talk rubbish all the time' is a bit worrying though. Do you mean, profanity, like swearing or whatever?

Oh no I don't mean swearing I mean I'm always say something stupid or out of place and my convosations are about as weird as they can be. Also although I (in normal cercumstances) am one of the most frendly people possible (I talk to compleate stangers and they normally end up likeing me) when it comes to girls I relly like... Where o where dose my confidence go (at this point if I was talking to you I would proberbly burst into song) but one of the reasons I am poasting this on here is that pratickally no-one knows who I am.

[Coidzor]

^: That... always sucks. I have... similar problems... I've not really found anything that helps with the awkward conversations other than trying to be more vigilant before I say anything to keep the bad stuff in.

As far as having no one really know you... *shrug* I've somehow managed to get a reputation as a sex-obsessed A-hole when I go out of my way to be polite to others. And find out even my friends have a tendency to agree with this. When sex only comes up in conversation about as often as one would expect for a group of college guys.

So yeah. Sorry mate, I wish I had some advice there.

Anyways, you should know that I don't like a lot of people. Or rather, I do, but I get bored of people rather fast. I have loads of friends, but I try to prevent seeing the same ones too much. There's a couple of exceptions, sure, but even them I can't talk to every day for hours.

So I was rejected, and I don't know quite how to deal with it. It's harder for me, since there's way less people out there I could like enough, and it hurts to learn that when you finally find someone they don't like you back, not in that way.

Might've been a "I'm not really available right now because I'm currently going after someone" rejection rather than a "I will never find you attractive, **** off" rejection.

So you try to avoid developing close friendships?

[MrEdwardNigma]

Might've been a "I'm not really available right now because I'm currently going after someone" rejection rather than a "I will never find you attractive, **** off" rejection.
One can only hope, I suppose.


So you try to avoid developing close friendships?
No, I have close friendships, I just avoid seeing people too often. People I see every day I grow to resent. Except her.

[Berserk Monk]

Mr. Edward whatever, PM me. I've got a story for you.

[Felixaar]

Shanty, I wouldn't worry too much, then. You're just the type of guy some girls like and some girls dont. There's nothing wrong with you being the way you are and eventually you'll find a girl who likes it. Just don't give up hope. Also, if you need help in feminine conversation check out the Talking to Girls link in my sig - it mainly pertains to asking girls out but theres a few useful things in there anyway. Best of luck and don't get discouraged.

Ed, it happens, and there's not really anything you can do about it. There's really no better advice that I can give you than Move on, let it pass, cause there's nothing else you can do.

[Coidzor]

So what is the usual period of time to abstain from dating that is considered "proper" to avoid looking really bad after a breakup?

I'm getting some mixed messages here from my friend group and so I'm thinking they've all taken to snorting mothballs, since I've only asked out two people, only one of whom they know about because of the weirdness where she asked me out and then wasn't able to make it due to some family things coming up so I asked her out and then she bailed at the last minute while dumping all of her date rape issues from HS in my lap and then disappearing for a month while she tried to work up the courage to tell the guy she likes that she loved him and she apparently has only so far managed to get to the point where she could tell me she bailed due to him rather than seriously thinking I'm a date-rapist.

Still, I was not amused. And am still insulted by that situation.

What's more worrisome is the fact that I was accused of asking people out that I never actually asked out. Since that's just bizarre.

But mostly I'm wondering what the time periods are, since they seem to be different between the sexes.

[Felixaar]

I'd wait a while, Coid. A long while. My advice, don't try for anything until you come across a really special girl - one who's far above the cut.

[Midnight Son]

Oh no I don't mean swearing I mean I'm always say something stupid or out of place and my convosations are about as weird as they can be. Also although I (in normal cercumstances) am one of the most frendly people possible (I talk to compleate stangers and they normally end up likeing me) when it comes to girls I relly like... Where o where dose my confidence go (at this point if I was talking to you I would proberbly burst into song) but one of the reasons I am poasting this on here is that pratickally no-one knows who I am.Trust me. You're not alone. (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Zl1IplJkUGk) In fact, there's a place That many like minded individuals have used as a gathering place; kinda like a support group. Its called the local pub or café.

[skywalker]

I'm getting some mixed messages here from my friend group and so I'm thinking they've all taken to snorting mothballs, since I've only asked out two people, only one of whom they know about because of the weirdness where she asked me out and then wasn't able to make it due to some family things coming up so I asked her out and then she bailed at the last minute while dumping all of her date rape issues from HS in my lap and then disappearing for a month while she tried to work up the courage to tell the guy she likes that she loved him and she apparently has only so far managed to get to the point where she could tell me she bailed due to him rather than seriously thinking I'm a date-rapist.

Still, I was not amused. And am still insulted by that situation.

I would be too. Being accused of being a date-rapist is a very serious thing. Have you expressed to her how awful a thing that is to even imply about someone?

I don't think it's a big deal to wait any particular period of time, follow your heart, if your heart leads you toward someone the day after you break up, then follow it. But that means really, really follow your heart, don't get tricked by those bad ideas that pretend to be your heart.

What do I mean by that? I think what I mean by that, is kinda what the Dalai Lama says, to ask yourself "Will this make me happy?" Which is the advice he gives for curbing actions that are pleasurable, but not necessarily good for you or conducive to happiness. So really follow your heart, and not that "scared of loneliness" part, you know?

If that's too thick/eastern/a bunch of crap for you, here's some more advice. Don't worry about it so much. It will never be enough for some people. You will learn what your appropriate amount of time will be.

Felix's advice is good too. Just cuz I have other advice doesn't mean I think it's bad. In a way, it's rather similar.

[averagejoe]

I'd wait a while, Coid. A long while. My advice, don't try for anything until you come across a really special girl - one who's far above the cut.

I agree with this in principle. In fact, it's how I've lived my life, and I've never regretted it. However, I am fast approaching the point where if I was a few years younger and a good deal less sensible I'd be sitting around writing bad poetry, all the while hoping that someone would ask me what I was doing so I could wax poetic about exactly how I would be doing. Which is to say that if one is going to try this then it helps to be open to the idea that the glass is indeed half full.

[Keinnicht]

This is really more like psychoanalysis than relationship advice, but here I go.

So, I asked some one out a bit back, and she said she wasn't looking for a relationship. We're reasonably good friends now, but I have feelings for her still. Now, I recently found out she has a significant other. However, she never mentioned this to me (Or really anyone else) so I figured it was a recent development. Upon further conversation with someone, I learned she actually has had this boyfriend for a reasonable length of time. Now, every single other one of my female friends I spoke to who have a boy friend responded to the question "What would you say if some one asked you out?" with something relating to their boyfriend (I presume they weren't just saying this to make me feel better, because I asked the question basically without context. Which I suppose seemed mildly strange for a few seconds.) whereas said girl specifically didn't mention why she wasn't looking for a relationship. Furthermore, she considered for several days before giving me an answer.

Now, I figure there's probably two basic camps here: One, she's interested and therefore doesn't want me to know she's in a relationship, or two, she simply never bothered to tell me she had a boyfriend and I'm reading too much into things. Really they seem about equally likely.

I suppose not knowing her, you guys can basically only give me very general guesses, but whatever.

[xPANCAKEx]

Coidzor - 21 days and then you're a free agent. It gives both parties a FAIR chance to express any feelings they need to. Anything longer than that, and well... sorry. Missed your chance. Suck it up. And if you meet someone special in this time, then they will understand that you still need time n space to sort your own head out and wait. If they arn't willing to wait - they arn't worth losing sleep over

of course the question of "how long to wait before getting into your next relationship" is a totally different bucket of syrup - thats one you'll have to ask yourself and be brutally honest about. Even if you like someone, if you don't feel ready, then you're not ready. Its not something that can be rushed. Just stick to dating for a while.

and yeah - that girl that dumped on you still owes you a massive appology. I'd steer WELL clear of her for a while. And no - simply saying "bad things happened, im a **** up, took it out on you, sorry" - doesn't constitute a full appology on this one. I can only begin to imagine how much what she said hurt. Cut her some slack by all means given the situation... but still...

Keinnicht - try looking at this from a different angle. MAYBE what she said was she true: shes not looking for a relationship. So how would that play out re: her "significant" other. He may not be that significant. Maybe they've been dating a while, but its not a big thing? Such arrangements are entirely possible, depending on where two people are emotionally.

In all fairness - if she was interested, she wouldn't try to put you off (an excuss that is innacurate by ommission is still an excuse), so its probably not best to try and read into it too much to try and convince yourself you may have a chance.

If you really are desperate for answers (as i know some people don't like living with uncertainty) then by all means ask her some straight questions. Just don't go into it with any expectations that everything she tells you will be something you want to hear.

[Jarade]

Ok, so.

I asked a girl to go see dinner or a movie, and she said yes, but she needed to leave before we could decide where or when to do something.

This is my first actual only girl and me hang out/date thing, and I was wondering if the playground could possibly give me advice on what to do, where to go, things to avoid and the like.

Thanks in advance

[Stadge]

Hello all, sorry to post a problem on this without having first tried to help others. But well, I’m not sure what I’m doing tbh.

I’ve been dating a girl, call her B, since mid July last year, I was introduced to her by a JG (my ex-crush of a few years back) who has since revealed that she introduced us hoping that we’d get together lol. We spent a month or so just talking over myspace, and I thought “hey, she sounds quite nice”, we then started hanging round a bit around college (uk) and really got to know each other on the two-day open day we went on for Cambridge university. About a week later, I asked her out, and well, we’re still together.

Things seem to have been going fantastic, we 1st exchanged “I love you”s a few months back, initially in Gaelic by me lol, and I know that on my behalf I truly meant it. We’ve had and kinda still have really great times.

But of course, this thread being as it is, there’s a catch. Well two really.

The first isn’t directly related, but on the 3rd of December my dad passed away. Completely unexpectedly, and due to divorce I was left as next-of-kin at 17. Anyway, obviously this has affected me, but B was there for me all the time over Christmas and new year, and well, has said she still is if I need any help. But well, understandably, I’ve not been quite so chipper as late, and I don’t know if it’s due to my pessimistic mood, or if its got any grounding in truth, but I’ve been worrying that my poor-mood has been putting a strain on our relationship. B has said it hasn’t, but I’m not too sure. Think the whole thing has made me worry more tbh.

The second point is a bit more related. From October 2007, until I’m not exactly sure when in 2008, after April at the earliest, B was really close to a lad, J?. She had, and still has, only spoken to him via the internet, he lives 200 miles away (which to a 16/17 year old in the uk is a massive distance). Anyway, they were really close, so close in fact, that I had vey nearly consigned myself to just staying friends with B, not making a move because of J?, a boy I’d never even spoken to.
I still wouldn’t have said anything, except a few days after Cambridge; I spent the evening with B, JG and a few others, JG and B got a lift home from the same person, and I got a text from JG asking me if I liked B. Obviously my attempts at trying to act like I just wanted to be a friend didn’t work. I said yes, but mentioned the whole issue with J?. And was told that B liked me, and to go for it. I did, though she didn’t know I knew how close she and J? were, and like I said, it’s been great. Until the new year.
She’d been really quiet for about a week and after much coercion, I eventually got it out of her. She was upset and feeling guilty for not really speaking to J? properly over the past six months. She hadn’t wanted to tell me in case I reacted angrily or tetchily. I hugged her and told her, roughly as I remember “talk to him. I know that if he lived locally, I would have been introduced to the two of you as a couple, and he’s the reason I nearly didn’t approach you. It doesn’t make me tetchy, it just makes me realise how incredibly lucky I am to be with you”
Soon after exams overtook us, and these, as well as a rejection from Cambridge for B, have meant she’s still been quiet, though she has said that she knows I’m here for her.
The thing is, exams are over, she’s still quiet, won’t tell me what’s up, and what with other little things, I get the feeling its more stuff to do with J? and I know in my heart that she’ll always love him above me, and that I’m always going to weigh in second each time, which I try to not let get to me. Thing is, even though I know this, and have tried to speak about it, I really don’t know what I’m supposed to do. If she ended it, I’d understand and stay friends if I could, but I can’t bring myself to leave of my own accord, even though I know there’s stuff eating her up inside.

Sorry for the ramble. And well, even if no good comes of this post, it’s helped me just to type stuff.

[xPANCAKEx]

Jarade - as its your first date, i'll assume you're quite young, so wont advise anything too pricey (besides - flashy dates rarely impress on a first date).

Avoid movies as a - i know they are 'popular' choice but in all fairness they are a poor one: you can't talk at a movie. For a 'low pressure' date (assuming you have a romantic interest in this girl), go for coffee and cake/pastries at a nice cafe. Failing that, a light meal or even the holdback of pizza and milkshakes will do.

also - as its the season for it, ice skating can be a winner too

Stadge - don't worry, its not a trade system. Everyone offers advice out of kindness alone here

firstly - its completely ok to feel upset over your loss, so don't for one second feel guilty about it. B will be there to help you, as long as you keep showing you appreciate her for it

As for the J thing - i think you over estimate it entirely. If she was head over heels for the guy, something would have happened long before now (when i was 16 i was dating a girl over a 100 miles away. even at a young age you can make it happen). Its not a case of who she loves "above" the other. She loves you in a romantic sense for all the many reasons you are together. She loves him as a friend. You need to accept that and stop feeling threatened by it or it will affect things. If you keep telling her you think she loves him more than you then of course she feels guilty for it.

I think the best thing would be appologise for if you've ever made her feel guilty about her friendship, and tell her how much you've appreciated all her support. Let her know that you trust her, and she shouldn't feel like she should should have to keep her friendships secret from you. And most importantly, let her know (even if she already knows it) that no matter what you're going through, if she needs to talk, she can can come and talk to you

When the person you're going out with is having a tough time, its kinda hard to approach them for support about your own problems, so it may help to let her know that it really is ok to do so

[Felixaar]

Joe, there there mate. don't start writing crappy poetry :smallwink: what ever happened to that girl you met?

Kein, move on, this is not an avenue worth pursuing and will most likely lead you into danger if you attempt to press yourself on this girl. It really is a good idea to just back off now and see what happens, take a passive stance and just be friends.

Jarade, in my experience, girls preferr to eat dinner rather than just see it. Of course, if like me you're too poor for that, they'll probably appreciate the effort. Despite what people say, movies arent such a bad idea. If you like in Friendly Banter a bit more I think someone made a topic on "Fun Date Ideas", check out this topic (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=103335) for date ideas. Just do something you both like doing, and if you cant think of anything, do something you like doing and think she might like doing and hope for the best. I would also reccomend trying to finalise the situation ASAP before it just slips her mind. Also, way to go on working up the courage to ask her out! I applaud you.

Stadge, listen to xPANCAKEx's advice, he is spot on with this one.

[Syka]

Coidzor, if you are asking about how long after one of YOUR relationship ends, it's purely up to you. Only you can determine how long you need.

Stadge, I second Felix- listen to Pancake. From age 16-19 I was in a relationship with a Boy, who was 15-18 during the relationship and lived 1000 miles away from me. The distance didn't stop us trying, we didn't even see each other for the first year (we'd met at a Latin Convention in Texas; he lived in New Jersey, I in Florida) and only every 6 months after that.

Cheers~

[averagejoe]

Joe, there there mate. don't start writing crappy poetry :smallwink: what ever happened to that girl you met?

Nothing at all, which is the problem. Didn't see her over break, which was expected, going back home to see her family and all that. A week before break was over she actually called me to arrange a meeting when I got back in town (a good sign, I think), but then the day we were supposed to meet she called me, told me that a few days earlier something bad happened to her (I didn't ask, she didn't seem to want to talk about it) and she hadn't been doing any of her usual stuff and wanted to be alone for a bit. Which is fine, but the waiting has really started to get to me over the past few days. In a lot of ways it's worse than a flat rejection, found preferable only because of the fact that I have reason to hope that it will turn out well. She gave me her AIM during this last exchange, but I have yet to catch her on the damn thing.

Mostly just complaining, really. Signs would indicate that she does like me, at least a little, and writing this helped me see that again. This is, however, a bit like waiting for christmas as a kid times a thousand.

[Serpentine]

Stadge: I second Syka, listen to Felix when he says to listen to Pancake :smalltongue:

Hey Pancake, why is it that we agree perfectly on about half the issues, and are completely at odds with about the other half?

[Starshade]

Stadge: i agree with the others posting above me.
Maybe one of the big weaknesses of english, is the word "Love" mean much, much more than in some other languages, of couse she can LOVE him, it dont mean she want a relationship with him.

If she'd want an relationship it would possibly already happen, even if two persons get along really well, it dont mean, they WANT an relationship. If its someone she only chat with online i think you over estimates that relationship.

[Coidzor]

Ok then. For appearances sake then? Seriously. I just got a bunch of BS thrown at me about asking my group of female friends out "immediately after" my break up. Which is especially funny since I never asked them out except for one and that was after we'd slept together and not seen each other all winter break due to her living aways away, so I was kinda curious as to whether she wanted to pursue things, having kept in touch over winter break but been curious as to what to do when she never mentioned it.

And I'm pretty sure she never told them, or I would've been eviscerated by them for it, since obviously I must've done something wrong in order to sleep with her in the first place.

It's been since October. I made a couple of dates over winter break but got bailed on by the girl who had date-rape issues, but didn't really care all that much since they were just dates rather than asking someone into a relationship. Then I had a date with a friend in one of my classes after having her all over me cuddling while we were studying together, and we ended up making out.

Got a bit of crap over that, despite it being halfway through January and the breakup being half to 2/3 through October.

[Pyrian]

Frankly, Coidzor, I'd probably tell them off. They're being horribly rude and inappropriate. The proper time to start a new relationship is after the previous one is over - that's it. Any additional time you do or do not need is purely your own affair and nobody else's, and anyone who tells you otherwise is being a busybody and ought to mind their own business. :smallannoyed:

[Player_Zero]

Frankly, Coidzor, I'd probably tell them off. They're being horribly rude and inappropriate. The proper time to start a new relationship is after the previous one is over - that's it. Any additional time you do or do not need is purely your own affair and nobody else's, and anyone who tells you otherwise is being a busybody and ought to mind their own business. :smallannoyed:

With the provisional requirement that you are not seeing the next person specifically because the last relationship ended I would interject.

[Phaedra]

I don't know. I think if you want to rebound, that's your choice. Everyone takes a breakup differently. Perhaps it might not be fair on the other person if you can't commit, but it's still only the business of the people in the relationship, not anyone else's.

[Player_Zero]

I don't know. I think if you want to rebound, that's your choice. Everyone takes a breakup differently. Perhaps it might not be fair on the other person if you can't commit, but it's still only the business of the people in the relationship, not anyone else's.

If you're not in a ready state of mind to be in a relationship then how fair is it to the other person to get into a relationship in the first place? You say that's between the people in the relationship, but really, isn't that the problem of the person just out of a relationship? Not necessarily going to end in tragedy indeed, but you should be aware of what you're doing at least.

Also, as a side-note and somewhat tangentially, the notion of making a previous partner jealous is right out. Perhaps you don't much care if their feelings get hurt due to breaking up on bad terms, that's alright, I mean, it's not particularly nice but it's not unfair. But to specifically have the purpose of making the previous partner jealous is stupid and unfair to everyone concerned I think we can all agree.

[Phaedra]

I agree that going into a relationship with the express intention of making another person jealous is unfair, though I don't suppose that ever stops anyone. Love makes people a little bit crazy.

If you're not ready for a relationship, then like I said, yes, it CAN be unfair on the other person. But really, if you're going into a relationship with them, you should discuss your situation with them, at least to the extent that they know you've just broken up. If they know, it's just as much their choice to enter the relationship as yours.

Besides, not every relationship is long-term. If I'd just broken up, I'd like to date and have a few short-term things just to enjoy being free again. If no one's expecting commitment, no one will get hurt. It's my business who I date, when I date and what I want from that date.

[Serpentine]

Frankly, Coidzor, I'd probably tell them off. They're being horribly rude and inappropriate. The proper time to start a new relationship is after the previous one is over - that's it. Any additional time you do or do not need is purely your own affair and nobody else's, and anyone who tells you otherwise is being a busybody and ought to mind their own business. :smallannoyed:Agreed, but with the added (from Zero) provisio that if you're still in close quarters with the recent ex and have any hope of maintaining a positive relationship with her, for heaven's sake keep the whole thing as far away from her as you can - for example, if you're still living with her, don't bring the new one over to stay the night - no matter how "cool with it" she might seem.

Speakin' from experience, here.

[Syka]

If it's been three months, if you feel good I see no problem with it. As I said, I was asked out 5 days after my break up and the date was about a week or two afterwards. We dated for 9 months until I decided I needed committment or nothing. The whole just casually dating thing worked well for both of us. It was a rebound, technically, but neither of us ended up getting hurt ultimately.

That said, I think 3 months is generally enough time for most people, excepting those who've lost a partner to death or otherwise non-relationship related issue and those who are still hung up on their ex-partner.

I'm really not sure why you're friends would be getting on you about it, honestly, unless you were rubbing it in her face. All my friends were happy when I was dating again.

Also, Serp's addendum is appropriate- don't rub the ex-partner's face in it.

[SharpWolf]

Hi, everyone!

Some of you might remember me from some time ago (thanks for the support, by the way), where I was stuck in a pretty bad situation with my girlfriend and her crazy-control-freak parents. Well, I won't get much into details, but let's just say that, with her parents putting insane pressure on the both of us, her being unable to break free from their influence and still living with them, me being unable to cope anymore with the craziness and the sheer absurdity of it all anymore, and the two of us being too exhausted by the whole thing to deal with our own problems, our relationship eventually crash-and-burn-ed horribly, finally coming to an end a few days after the new year.

I'm the one who took the final decision when I realized that I had come very close to hitting her over a small and very random argument, and that this wasn't going to be solved anytime soon, with her planning to continue living with her parents for an undetermined amount of time and me on the verge of completely breaking down.

So right now, I'm feeling pretty weird. It's been a month now and, these past weeks, I've come to realize that our relationship had gotten pretty toxic in the last year and, while I know for certain that I've made the right decision, I can't help but feel seriously bad over it all. I hate the idea that I've hurt her by breaking up and I feel like I've abandoned her to her crazy parents. On the other hand, well, things had gotten pretty ugly for me and I just couldn't take it anymore. She had started doing some passive-aggressive stuff, like telling me that nobody she knew liked me and that I was so lucky to have her because nobody else would have me, that I was so clumsy and pessimistic and constantly inventing new problems and compromising peace and... well. She had never done that before and it was pretty hard for me to deal with. Eventually, after the break-up, I had to cut off all contacts because I was completely exhausted and she kept calling or emailing me to either tell me how absolutely horrible and disgusting I was to put her through that, or that she loved me and would sacrifice everything for me and that we could still make things better, if only I was willing...

Since a few days, I'm feeling like it's time to move on, appreciate my freedom, start doing new things, do more stuff with my great friends, meet new people -- maybe try my luck with that sweet girl whom I've know for quite some time and who I would certainly have considered for more serious stuff, had I not been in a relationship at the time. And I'm not thinking about anything particularly serious for now, just maybe dating, having fun and enjoying each other's company, without all the pressure, the judgments and all that... that certainly would be a welcome change from all the stupid drama I've had in my life the past year. It's just that, sometimes, I feel like it's wrong of me to feel like that, that I'm being unjust to my now-ex-girlfriend or something. My friends have told me that I am absolutely in my right and that they can't believe "just how the hell did I last that long?!", and I'm inclined to believe them and follow their advice, but I just feel guilty, sometimes...

So here I am, and I'm not planning to go back on my decision anytime soon, but right now, I'm left wondering: what now? If I'm to start anew, where to start?

[Midnight Son]

SharpWolf Sounds to me like you have it pretty much figured out. My only suggestion is that you not date seriously till the guilt you're feeling subsides somewhat. It'll taint any relationship, otherwise. As for that guilt, its a natural consequence of being the one to break the relationship. Only the most callous of people would be able to do that and not have a few pangs of guilt. The feelings will pass in time. Date casually till then.

[Starshade]

SharpWolf: I’ve had issues among my own relatives, and had in periods no real desire to involve any girl at all into the madness. You seem to have dealt with the girl way better than id seem to have done, at last I know i don’t tolerate cruel mental manipulation meant to break down and control people, it’s what I’ve seen and had issues with: Id have thrown any woman out, or left her on the minute, and shut all contact immediately furious if i was attempted manipulated with "no one like you, you should be lucky you got me".
I hope id not been furious enough to be aggressive, but, I know that tactics would make me quite mad.

Id not worry about her, if she got normal intelligence to any degree, there is no reason she would not be able to make her own opinions and decisions, and not be controlled by her parents, at least not mentally, if she'd not been able to be independent economically.
Edit: i also dont know if you two are legally adult. it changes a lot if you are not of couse.

[evil-frosty]

I am having trouble getting over a relationship. Here are her exact words when she broke up with me:

"I'm really trying to put my feelings into words but i really suck at it....i want to go out with a guy whose a little more social, you're kinda strange at times, and i think if my friends or people like that met u i might be kinda embarassed that you're my boyfriend."

I know that I am not like everyone else for one i play AD&D and thats universally looked as dorky i guess but thats no reason to break up with someone also we go to different schools and at our old school most of the people there were complete idiots who i didnt like cept for a few people, so thats where she is getting me not being social i guess. I Love her, i truly do and all i want is her to be happy even if that makes me miserable, I just cant move on. I just keep thinking back to times when we were together and having fun. I just cant stop dwelling on the past. The only reason i can think that i am having a hard time getting over it is because i felt like she was the only person i could go to, to talk about something and now i dont think that i can. I just want to know how i can move on. And now shes getting mad at me because i am having trouble getting over it. She still wants to be friends and so do i but i just dont know if i can be.

[Syka]

Evil, if she's more worried her friends will think her a dork/nerd/whatever for dating you than about how you treat her, you deserve better. Like, my friends knew me well enough to know that just because I dated a guy that surfed did not mean I was a surfer.


Sharp, what MS said. You seem like you have a good handle and I commend you for cutting off contact. I had to do that with my ex (also an unhealthy relationship for the last year of it) and, it was hard, but best decision I made. Especially since he'd gotten upset at me dating a MONTH after he broke up with me and began dating the girl he CHEATED ON ME with. oO Talk about hypocrite.

Once guilt subsides, feel free to get in a serious relationship if you desire. But after a long term relationship, having something casual is actually really nice.

Cheers~

[Felixaar]

Coid, screw you female friends. Or on second thoughts, don't, that seems to be the problem.

Sorry, couldn't help myself.

Anyway I would say that you should stop worrying so much about what other people think. If you feel ready to date again, date again.

Sharp, you did the right thing and I must say I am both proud of you and respect you for making that move. Well done, sir. Don't worry about your ex - everything she has, she has brought upon herself. Best of luck with that sweet girl and take it easy (also, start at the very beginning. After all, it is a very good place to start.)

evil, you might want to be with her, but she doesn't want to be with you. There's nothing you can do about that, and you just have to move on. Theres no key. Theres no trick. It just takes time. If you need someone to confide in, try one of your other friends, or if that doesnt work both here and in the Depression thread people will listen to you. You can also PM me if you need someone to talk to.

Random update: Rachel now has a 23 year old boyfriend (she is 17), and my best mate has split up with his girlfriend. He is dropping out of school and she is into heavy drinking and drugs. What the hell happened to all my friends?

[averagejoe]

Random update: Rachel now has a 23 year old boyfriend (she is 17), and my best mate has split up with his girlfriend. He is dropping out of school and she is into heavy drinking and drugs. What the hell happened to all my friends?

I know what you mean. Two of my friends recently failed at college because they were getting stoned the whole time, so now they're being all they can be. Or whatever the advertisement is for the army these days.

[Syka]

Yup...my friends are having a fun time of it.

One was having an emotional affair with a (now former) grad student teacher of hers; I know they kissed at least once, but as far as I know they're still keeping up the emotional part. One is now moving in with his girlfriend, whom none of us like AND isn't taking precautions to avoind mini-him's (confirmed by him). My best friend is going to be shipped over seas sometime in the next 6 or so months. And one of our other friends, whose our other friend's fiancee, is currently living nearly an hour away from us. oo'

Oh, and that second friend and the last set of friends I mentioned...they aren't really talking anymore. :smallsigh:

I think it's one of those social circle explosion times.

[Felixaar]

It's mad, mad world. I guess I just need to stop feeling so responsible for all my friends.

[Keinnicht]

Keinnicht - try looking at this from a different angle. MAYBE what she said was she true: shes not looking for a relationship. So how would that play out re: her "significant" other. He may not be that significant. Maybe they've been dating a while, but its not a big thing? Such arrangements are entirely possible, depending on where two people are emotionally.

In all fairness - if she was interested, she wouldn't try to put you off (an excuss that is innacurate by ommission is still an excuse), so its probably not best to try and read into it too much to try and convince yourself you may have a chance.

If you really are desperate for answers (as i know some people don't like living with uncertainty) then by all means ask her some straight questions. Just don't go into it with any expectations that everything she tells you will be something you want to hear.

Currently my plans are just to hang out with her some and see if I can ascertain her level of interest in her boyfriend and even if I can still stand her after spending long periods of time with her. Which is probably good to find out before starting a relationship. Even if she's not interested, I like talking to her, so whatever.

Also, Coidzor, I'd say your female friends are of questionable sanity. One, when you start dating someone after ending a relationship should not be at the approval of friends, and two anyone who gets mad at you for asking you out when you didn't do any such thing needs a head exam.

[averagejoe]

Semi-cheerful update/critique. I finally sent her a message in which I spelled out that she needn't have responded to it, but she gave me a call anyways. As it turns out, a leg injury she had is actually worse than had been indicated by medical tests and whatnot, and her being a dancer makes this a rather bigger deal than it might be for most people. So I guess she's going to be staying with her mom for a couple of weeks to sort things out. Guys, waiting stands at the left hand of suck, and uncertainty at the right.

Still, it was nice to hear her voice, so I consider this a net win for me.

Let this be a lesson to the timid; stuff rarely happens unless you do something. For every relationship that has come about via movie-esque providence there is a whole bunch that have never came about because one or both of the participants were expecting the movie-esque providence that never came.

[xPANCAKEx]

Keinnicht - i wouldn't go into such a situation thinking that the answers will just appear. She's not been very forthcoming so far, and the ball is firmly in her court so to speak. If you wanna know the state of play with her and her boyfriend, then just flat out ask her - no harm in that - but i think if shes not spoken about it to you before its going to be a hot topic of conversation anytime soon




Let this be a lesson to the timid; stuff rarely happens unless you do something.

fully backed

rejection is better than regret

[VeisuItaTyhjyys]

Ah, the horrible call given to ex-girlfriend on her birthday. If I smoked a cigarette for everything I hated about the world, I wouldn't have to live in it half so long as I doubtlessly will. If I smoked a cigarette, however, for everything I had come to hate about her, I would quit entirely. Which is, it would seem, what I am doing.

[xPANCAKEx]

sometimes if wounds are still fresh it can certainly sting a bit - but its best to put in the effort now. As long as you didn't split on bad terms, and you still get on on a personal level, these little efforts have great long term dividends

[Felixaar]

Let this be a lesson to the timid; stuff rarely happens unless you do something. For every relationship that has come about via movie-esque providence there is a whole bunch that have never came about because one or both of the participants were expecting the movie-esque providence that never came.

Damn it Joe, stop being so awesome. You might be tall, but eventually it'll grow to big for your body to contain!

Veisu, sorry to hear of your hardships. I hope everything works out for the best, and quickly - stay strong and keep moving forward.

[Coidzor]

Say... What's something appropriate for a first date that's also on valentine's day?

I've known her off and on for about 5 years now, but I'm not really sure how to wrap myself around the whole first date and valentine's day occurring together...

[Syka]

First- ugh, Valentines day. I need to brace myself for the onslaught of pink and flowers everywhere. I'm so glad I'll be unemployed during Valentine's Day.


That said...I think anything appropriate for a first date would be appropriate in general. Ice skating is always a fun first date, although since you've known her a while a movie and dinner would be OK (but cliche and probably extremely busy). Maybe go to the zoo or a museum or something. I had a kind of first date at a bookstore and it was a lot of fun.

If you really feel the need to do something Valentine's Dayish get her flowers or something. I think it was Trog or MS or one of the resident GiantITP suave men who suggested not necessarily getting her favorite flower but getting her flowers that remind you of her.

Cheers~

[Felixaar]

Syka is wise with the suggestion of something unusual - anything traditional is going to be absolutely swarmed.

[Coidzor]

Err, already got a bit of a plan. We're hanging out for most of the day, catching some DVDs, and then going out for a bite to eat later, where the clawing through the crowds simply to get anywhere comes into play.

Thankfully I think the roads'll be more clear earlier in the day when we meet up.

I was more thinking in terms of appropriate garnishes in terms of gifting.

Especially since I have to deal with meeting the family at the same time earlier that day. argh.

[Syka]

In that case, I'd keep it simple. Steer away from jewlery in general right now, I'd say. Flowers, small stuffed animal, chocolate would all be appropriate 'Valentines Day-ee' gifts for a first date, although all of the above would be overkill.

I would say if you had one of those paint your own ceramics thing that doing something from there would be unique, but I don't think there'd be time by Valentines Day. Personally, I find something made (card, anything really, that's more personalized) is more appreciated.

Good luck with meeting the parents.

[averagejoe]

Damn it Joe, stop being so awesome. You might be tall, but eventually it'll grow to big for your body to contain!

I do appreciate you saying so. You're pretty cool too. Um...

Either giving or receiving compliments actually embarrasses me to no end. So, uh... *hides*

[DrizztFan24]

Two Things

-Has anyone else had to deal with a relationship that feels like you are also getting parents in the deal? My pseudo-girlfriend’s mother is super over-protective after her first two children didn’t do exactly as she said. So now my friend is stuck with Dearest Mother constantly grounding her and making it impossible for her to date anyone. I am the only guy that she has been allowed to leave the house with for a date and we have done that twice in two years. Now I feel like I am falling out of touch with the magic that we once seemed to have because of her Mom’s boundaries and my never getting to see her.

-Does anyone else feel like they are living in a freaking’ chick flick*?! I had such a crazy time these past two weeks with relationships I can’t even put my head on straight, let alone think straight.

STORY TIME
I have a wonderful lady that I have had kind of an on and off relationship thing-ish deal with for the past few years living 35 miles away. I go off to Pierre for Legislative Page duties and meet an incredible girl there who I swear up one side and down the other was flirting with me. I thought I was pretty dang lucky. I had just met a new friend that instantly had that romantic spark go off and we seemed to agree on everything and became best-friends instantly. I find out that she is in a relationship. All signs point to it being a healthy relationship. And I am still getting the distinct vibe that she is flirting with me. I naturally kept half-flirting with her while I am being torn up inside because of my actions. I was flirting with a girl that I KNEW was “off the market.” It just took an addictive personality and a pretty face to throw all of my scruples and chivalry out the window. So now I have been feeling like crap because I don’t know if I was cheating on one girl and stealing the other or if my knack for reading people totally went to pot for two weeks or if something else I haven’t thought up happened. I won’t have to worry about a relationship with the newest girl though; she lives nearly three hours away. In high school that is a LONG way for a relationship.

*No offense meant towards movie’s labeled as chick flicks. I was simply referring to the appearance of many lady movies having crazy romantic situations such as the one above.

[Syka]

Flirting depends on the relationship. Some couples are perfectly fine with each other flirting with others, other couples not so much. I wouldn't say you cheated (that'd be stretching it a lot), if you felt like you were betraying your girlfriend then you probably shouldn't do it again. As for the other girl, any flirting she does is her and her boyfriend's thing. If they are cool with it, no harm no foul. Chances are, if it's a good relationship she's just a natural flirt and meant nothing by it.


As for with your girlfriend. First, is she actually your girlfriend or is it a kinda sorta not really type thing? If you can't handle how her parents are (and I'm assuming you are early high schoolish here), then it's not going to work. While she is under 18, technically her mom has every right to not want her dating. It's definitely not fair and it's kind of creepy, but there isn't really much you can do except sneak her out, which I'm sure would go over wonderfully.

[VeisuItaTyhjyys]

I really miss the cigarettes more than her.

[xPANCAKEx]

DrizztFan24 - the girlfriend thing? You either have to accept it as her problem to deal with, and leave her to it; OR, if the arrangement no longer works for you, you have to consider breaking up.

Its not fun dating someone with a controlling parent, but if shes not willing to stand up for herself, and you can't accept it all as part of the deal, i can't see it working out long term. How does your girlfriend feel about it all? And how old is she?

The flirt thing? some of us flirt for fun - its entirely harmless. She may just like you as a friend and thats her way of being friendly. Hell - i flirt with half my friends (girls and guys) just for laughs half the time. Different people have different ways. Watch to see if theres a hint of sarcasm to it or if she does it with anyone else. Further more - as shes in a healthy/happy long term relationship, it would further lean towards "just being flirty for fun"

[Felixaar]

Drizzt, I think I should applaud you on your good position - you are no doubt a good person. The past actions are something you do not normally do but you can't take them back - you just need to do your best to stop and move on from it. I might also suggest attempting to sort things out with your current girlfriend, and get something more defined than on and off again :smallsmile: as for her mother... such is life, mate. Trying to work against her won't end well. Just be happy for what you get. Maybe try talking to her mother about it? And yeah, I've lived in a chick flick a few times in the past. It's not that bad though - after all, chick flick's are suckers for happy endings.

[DrizztFan24]

Actually, Syka, we both graduate this year. I just turned 18 last wednesday and she turns 18 March 26. So I don't know if that changes the situation at all or not.

And the relationship is kind of hindered because of her mother. The last guy that got in a relationship with her (friend from school stole her the day after I asked her to prom) got a call from her mother and forced the two to break up. I am not sure I can define it other than put on hold. It was developing and then was checked. So it has no real state of being.

I am also considering talking to the other girl about the situation. I want to know if it was just a wierd situation or my knack for reading people has had its polarity reveresed or some such wierdness.

EDIT: oh, and Felix while chicks flicks usually have a happy ending it is usually only after much frustration and tormenting of the poor guy in the movie.

[Felixaar]

Hey, I never said otherwise :smallsmile:

I wouldn't worry about talking to the other girl. The fact is that a lot of people flirt regardless of the fact that they are in relationships, or flirt with people they don't necessarily want to be in a relationship with. Theres also people like me who flirt by accident... the point is that talking to her doesn't really need to be done, and I wouldn't worry about it.

What concerns me is the hold you seem to have on your girlfriend. This whole 'stole away one day after you asked her to Prom' thing seems a bit iffy - are you absolutely sure she feels the same way you do? I don't mean to be pessimistic but I'd hate to see a good guy such as yourself get hurt.

edit: @v once again syka puts it better than I ever could :smallsmile:

[Syka]

Can you define your relationship a bit more? It sounds more like a friendship in which a couple dates have occured. >>

[skywalker]

In that case, I'd keep it simple. Steer away from jewlery in general right now, I'd say. Flowers, small stuffed animal, chocolate would all be appropriate 'Valentines Day-ee' gifts for a first date, although all of the above would be overkill.

Roses are too much. Chocolate, don't spend over $25 on. More than $25, and you're trying too hard. And trust me, she can tell how much it costs. If she can't, her friend/mother can. A small stuffed animal could come off too cute.

I say chocolate under $25 for the win, assuming she likes it. Stupid girls being unique and throwing wrenches into plans!


I really miss the cigarettes more than her.

I'm sorry. On the upside, you have a really great start to a song/poem. Probably a song, that poem would probably be morbid :smalleek:

[Felixaar]

And trust me, she can tell how much it costs. If she can't, her friend/mother can. A small stuffed animal could come off too cute.

He's right. They can smell it :smalleek:

[Coidzor]

So the pedestrian 10-15 dollar heart-shaped box/pot of gold sort of thing. I can do that. Currently trying to get a feel for her preference, whether she's a choco-cherries kind or variety stuff.

Flowers, a bit stickier. I mostly worry about getting her something due to the aforementioned being given the once over by her mom. :smalleek:

So I don't wanna seem too over the top, but I don't want to show up empty handed either. I actually have a bit of a problem where I feel awkward if I go to visit someone and don't bring something with me. Probably some sort of misplaced/misremembered/misinterpreted sense of tradition and xenia.

[DrizztFan24]

Can you define your relationship a bit more? It sounds more like a friendship in which a couple dates have occured. >>

That is pretty much it; however, she has expressed a desire to take things further and I wouldn't mind giving things a shot either.

[xPANCAKEx]

That is pretty much it; however, she has expressed a desire to take things further and I wouldn't mind giving things a shot either.

well i think before getting invovled in anything it would be wise to address the mother issue with her - how does she intend to handle it differently from what shes doing now? With things as they stand i would have serious doubts about her being able to commit to a relationship without either some serious sneaking around, or direct confrontation on the issue - both of which have to be her call (if you ask her to do it, it will cause resentment later down the line)

if shes not willing to do either, then you'll either have to walk away, or accept that the relationship WILL move at what ever pace her mothers commands dictate

[VeisuItaTyhjyys]

Roses are too much.
Roses are never too much. I get friends roses for no occasion.



I'm sorry. On the upside, you have a really great start to a song/poem. Probably a song, that poem would probably be morbid :smalleek:
"I woke up this mornin'
My babay was gone
I woke up this mornin'
OH GOOD LORD I NEED A ****ING CIGARETTE"

[Jimp]

I met a girl recently at one of my band's gigs and we were getting on pretty well. She had to leave a short while after the gig ended so we didn't get to talk much more nor did I get her number, but we have mutual friends so I may bump into her again. The only thing in the way is that she is the daughter of one of my college lecturers. The lecturer himself is a nice guy and I get on well with him, but just as a general question what do you guys think? Risky business? This fact aside she's a real nice girl and I'm not one to be mean to someone so if anything did happen it's not like I'd mistreat her.
Opinions?

[Felixaar]

Jimp, It would probably be wise to talk to her dad, or perhaps some authority figure at the college, before 'making a move' on the girl. After all, depending on various party's reactions to the idea, it could be either tremendously horrific or extremely beneficial. So, in short - proceed with caution, but do proceed.

Also, good to see you again, man! Not necessarily in the RWA, of course, but... well, you know what I mean.

Drizzt, I really think you should try to get some more certainty on your relationship before doing anything else. You're showing a lot of loyalty to this girl, which is an admirable thing, but rather pointless if it turns out she just doesnt feel the same.

[xPANCAKEx]

Jimp - if you can keep your college life and personal life seperate, then sure, why not?

If however, he voices an opinion that it may create an ethical conflict for him, then it might be wise to steer clear. You don't want to seem to defering to him, but at the same time you have to be understanding about the awkward position it may put him in.
However - if he says he's fine with it, then go for it, and don't bring it up. If you make an issue out of something that isn't an issue, then its just going to cause problems

also - make sure for his class you have all your assignments in an on time. Infact, make it a priority to get them done. It will help you avoid ever mixing college and personal life together

[snoopy13a]

Say... What's something appropriate for a first date that's also on valentine's day?

I've known her off and on for about 5 years now, but I'm not really sure how to wrap myself around the whole first date and valentine's day occurring together...

I've gone with the single rose with baby's breath before. It looks nice and isn't expensive at all. Plus, it isn't over the top which you don't want to do on a first date. Essentially, you want to show consideration but not be overwhelming about it. Pink is probably the best color for first dates. Red is for significant others and yellow is for platonic friendships .

I've also gone on a valentine's day first date with no gift :smalltongue:

[Serpentine]

NEWSBLAST: Ex and Gorgeous-former-Friend have started working where they know I work. Sister described it as "extremely rude". I'm inclined to think "if they can't get jobs anywhere else, fair enough, but seriously man, you're asking for trouble." Dolphin says "sardines are delicious". News at 6.

[Syka]

That is quite coincidental. :\ I take it you aren't on speaking terms with either, given the former friend label?

Not much advice I can give other than just treat them like you would any other coworker. :) I know it's not the same but Ex and I actually both joined the same game on these forums post-break up and post-not talking. He IM'ed me asking what I wanted to do about it. I told him I had no problem, he would be treated like any other player, and it didn't mean I wanted to speak with him.

So, just do your best to not pay them any more attention than you would a new coworker.

[xPANCAKEx]

Serp - be professional. If either of them try to talk to you about anything non-work related, don't be rude, but just keep it short. Don't ask any follow up questions/anything in return

if they ask you why, tell them while you're not going to be friends any time soon, you can be co-workers and adults about everything and leave it at that

[GrandMasterMe]

So I would like some advice. I am currently a junior in high school in a very small town. I am somewhat of an outcast with many of the male members of our school, due in part, to my facination with clothing and my getting along unusually well with members of the oppisite sex in friendships. A friend of mine and I spoke about how we feel about each other this afternoon and came to the conclusion that we like each other but are not sure if we want to do anything about it. I would certianly like to pursue the relationship but she claims that she is worried what people will say. To me this seems a little silly, but I can empathize with her sentimants since people in high school can be exceptionaly cruel. I am not sure what I should do and would apreciate any feedback you fellow playgrounders can give me.

[Syka]

Actually tell her that you are interested in a relationship, not just "Well, I'm not really sure." You sound like you ARE sure, and if you let her know you are sure it might give her a reason to go out on the limb and risk that. I wouldn't want to risk anything for someone who was only half heartedly in it.

So let her know you definitely would like to and see where it goes from there.

Cheers~

[Serpentine]

That is quite coincidental. :\ I take it you aren't on speaking terms with either, given the former friend label?I don't think coincidental counts when they both know I work there. It's more "disregarding facts". And it's not so much "not on speaking terms" as "I can't stand being in their presence". And she has the nerve to be angry at me :smallannoyed: - apparently, moreover, for the chief reason that I didn't react the way she expected.
Sort-of-update kinda note, the main remaining reason I'm angry at them: The beginning of the Really Bad Bit was at least as much my fault as theirs. I told him I'd be fine with him having her over when he was in the studio (WRONG!). When I started not being fine with it, I didn't say anything because of the above and I felt like I should be fine with it, and I was positive that he'd refuse to change anything as a matter of principle. So, I squished it, and when at the end of that first week back she was still there, I exploded into nastiness. So far, all my fault. They didn't, and couldn't, know that would happen.
HOWEVER. At that point, and over... weeks, maybe a month or two, it was very, very clear to them that I couldn't handle it, through means quite civil or much less so. They knew that what they were doing was practically killing me, and they did nothing about it. She had her own place, granted with a housemate but one who wouldn't give a rat's what they did. Instead, she kept on coming here. She started sneaking in - not because she thought it might make it easier on me if I didn't see her waltzing in through the front door, but because she was "sick of being glared at". They knew that what they were doing was hurting me, they had an easy solution at hand that would be no more than a mild inconvenience to them, and they did. Absolutely. Freaking. Nothing. No, wait: They blamed me for it. They blamed their refusal to change the behaviour that made me react terribly on the fact that I reacted terribly.
And they don't even see that maybe, just maybe, they're not utterly and comprehensively in the right, don't acknowledge even the possibility that maybe they made a teensy mistake or two. She's aware that she's lost all her female friends in all this, and she still acknowledges nothing wrong in her behaviour! (this stuff goes out wider than just me and them, btw. Man that was a ****ed-up year)

So, yeah. Not really on speaking terms. And now they're moving in on my turf, so to speak :smallsigh: Really, it's pretty unlikely I'm going to have to deal with them at all. I'm mostly down in the basement, and they're probably on shelving. I'll shelve sometimes, too, but it'll be easy enough to avoid overlapping times. Worst-case scenario, they're actually working the front desk when I'm working there, so I'll have to see them when I come in and leave, and talk to them when I call the library. Well, worst worst but less likely scenario, it turns out they're freaking brilliant at their jobs and end up muscling me out of mah newspaper ironing gig. But that's just me being paranoid and insecure. It's more just the principle of the matter, y'know? They really are just asking for trouble.

Lessons learned, friends tested, moving on. Slowly.


GMM: Ha, giving advice after all the above :smalltongue: Yeah, I think tell her exactly how interested you are, and then proceed to be a very good, interesting, fun friend - you know, like you already are :smallwink: Maybe sneak some hand-holdings in the dark or when noone's looking... If she's worried about what other people will think, try to get alone with her more and leave any romanticness to then. If you do anything publicly, you'll make her uncomfortable and more likely to (possibly unconciously) resist. So, in public just be a good friend. In private, think about doing some cosier things to remind her you're still interested.

[SilentNight]

Well, it seems chance has led me here again dear playground.

Spoilered for length and general lack of coherentness.
So Valentine's day is coming and I find myself without a significant other. A friend of mine suggests I ask my ex, citing the evidence, "You know, she's probably not gonna have a valentine." And this has got me thinking as I haven't really felt anything for anyone else since. For those that weren't here for round one, a couple months back we developed feelings for each other, decided to give it a try and then stopped after about a month as a combination of awkwardness (we've known each other since kindergarden) and mutual shyness caused the relationship to stall and plummet. We've still been good friends in the interim months and things are pretty good. So what I've come to ask playground is how? Currently my plan is simply to say something along the lines of "Hey, you know, we never really found out what could have happened with us. You want to give it another try?" And then inviting her to a sort of valentines day get together with a couple other couples. If it matters, it was she who asked me out the first time and I who suggested breaking it off.
So, advice?

[skywalker]

I don't think coincidental counts when they both know I work there. It's more "disregarding facts".

I fink Foxy Lady (don't tell Oz I said that, I don't want to die) was being sarcastic.


So I would like some advice. I am currently a junior in high school in a very small town. I am somewhat of an outcast with many of the male members of our school, due in part, to my facination with clothing and my getting along unusually well with members of the oppisite sex in friendships. A friend of mine and I spoke about how we feel about each other this afternoon and came to the conclusion that we like each other but are not sure if we want to do anything about it. I would certianly like to pursue the relationship but she claims that she is worried what people will say. To me this seems a little silly, but I can empathize with her sentimants since people in high school can be exceptionaly cruel. I am not sure what I should do and would apreciate any feedback you fellow playgrounders can give me.

What does she think people will say?

EDIT: @SN Do it!!! Persistence pays off!

[Coidzor]

Any recommendations in particular about what kind of boxed chocolates might be a good idea for Vday?

Serps: I'm sorry. ... yeah... I'm kinda speechless right now.

SN: As long as you're prepared to eat your crow and do what's necessary to give things another chance... No worries. But don't just do it for a date on V-Day unless that's what you're communicating to her.

[Syka]

This makes me so happy that I don't have to deal with exes in any form. And gives me a whole new respect for Oz and his ex maintaining a friendship post-breakup while still living together. :smalleek:

Honestly, though, it could have happened with any roommates (the whole anger at her being over). A couple of friends recently had a falling out. A, D, and Z all lived together with the express agreement Z's girlfriend, AL, not stay over since they weren't comfortable with her. Well, D had to move out 3 months before the end of the lease for medical reasons but kept paying rent AND utilities. About a month and half before the lease was up, A finds out that AL has been staying over. She talks to Z about AL paying some rent, since she is there ALL THE TIME. He blows up at her. They don't talk. A subsequently finds out that AL started getting her mail sent there. :smalleek::smalleek: There is a bit more, but A and D don't talk to Z anymore.


Skywalker, no worries. :) Oz isn't the jealous sort, he'd see it as an ego boost to him. :smallwink:


SN, I generally advise against trying a second time with an ex. Usually the reason you broke up would still be there, and I think that would be the case with you guys. If you want a Valentine, go to uncharted territory. Don't feel obligated to have a Valentine, either.

[skywalker]

Skywalker, no worries. :) Oz isn't the jealous sort, he'd see it as an ego boost to him. :smallwink: I would want to kill me. But then, I am, obviously, the jealous sort... :smallbiggrin:/:smallfrown:


SN, I generally advise against trying a second time with an ex. Usually the reason you broke up would still be there, and I think that would be the case with you guys. If you want a Valentine, go to uncharted territory. Don't feel obligated to have a Valentine, either.

But the reason was silly.

[Syka]

It's not really that silly. Awkwardness isn't a bad reason- maybe they are just better friends than lovers.

But even given that, I doubt that reason would have changed in the last month. It will still likely be awkward and unless one of them has had a major personality change, they will likely still be shy.

[SilentNight]

For the record, it's been about three months, please continue. :smallbiggrin:

[Syka]

Sorry, the couple of months thing threw me off. Thanks for clarification. :smallsmile:

[Serpentine]

Syka: I still think it could have worked, except for various ****-ups and all-round naiivity (well... considering She had been doing this for a good 3 or 4 other men previously, maybe she could've had an idea of what to expect, except that everyone acts like she has chocolate-flavoured nipples and a halo, so this is the very first time there've been any real repercussions).

I also think it could work, having another shot with your ex, so long as you both have a frank and honest discussion of what each person perceives as going wrong and whether the problems are still there, and if they are whether they can be solved. It doesn't sound as though there was any resentment in this case, so it might be more likely than others to work.

[averagejoe]

I'd just like to say how much I've grown to despise Valentine's day. So many of my friends seem bummed out about being single on this particular day, even though there's really no reason to feel so beyond the reasons one might usually have. Of course, this seems to be, broadly speaking, an extension of the problem people have where they desire to have a boyfriend/girlfriend for the sake of having one instead of, well, for good reasons. This stupid holiday just reminds single people that they're single and puts more pressure on people to be with someone.

So, in conclusion, the only good thing about Valentine's day is Batman and Power Rangers Valentine cards.

[Rawhide]

So, in conclusion, the only good thing about Valentine's day is Batman and Power Rangers Valentine cards.

What about videos like this (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=56I1m__fnBY)?

[averagejoe]

What about videos like this (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=56I1m__fnBY)?

I'm torn between gushing over how cute that is and stern disappointment in the cat for failing at the only thing those animals do that make them worth having around. :smallyuk:

[eidreff]

@ Serp:

I have an ex that I still work with. The first few weeks were hardest, I ended up taking leave and going on a long holiday because proximity to the woman grated against wounds that hadn't healed. Space was required, and from the sound is what you want. Can you take leave/holidays? Even just a few days to set yourself in order and brace for the inevitable contact? It does take time and after a while you can become inured to the point where they are like a part of the office furniture.

After about 18 months (I was the one with the problem, and was majorly peeved by her actions) I was able to talk to her reasonably about subjects other than work. We are now reasonably good friends to the point of being able to go for lunch together and talk candidly.

I guess what I am trying to say, in my roundabout way, is that any kind of reconciliation won't happen whilst one party or other feels the injury still. Avoid re-opening wounds, and be professional.

I know it's not the best advice in the worl but hope it helps.


Edit: Valentines day = A commercial dream, the warping of what is essentially a good idea with hyper inflated prices, and a "beat the Joneses" whirl of who got what for whom.

[SilentNight]

Well, thanks guys, I think I am gonna try to have a talk with her, at the very least to figure out where things stand.

As far as Valentines day: I agree with Joe, although it is a handy excuse.

[evil-frosty]

Well I am finally ready to move on from my last relationship. And there actually is a girl i like but i am your stereotypical dork who cant talk to girls at all. So does anyone have advice for asking a girl out?

[averagejoe]

Edit: Valentines day = A commercial dream, the warping of what is essentially a good idea with hyper inflated prices, and a "beat the Joneses" whirl of who got what for whom.

I dunno about that, I just think a lot of people react self-detrimentally to it due to something that's only true if they think it is.

@SilentNight: I wasn't really reacting to your post, sorry if there was a mix up. It's just that a few of my friends have seemed pretty bummed out of late.


Well I am finally ready to move on from my last relationship. And there actually is a girl i like but i am your stereotypical dork who cant talk to girls at all. So does anyone have advice for asking a girl out?

Just ask her out. Be sincere, direct, confident, and upfront about it. It's just like, say, jumping off the high dive, you just have to grit your teeth and take the plunge. There's really no way around that, except that it becomes easier with practice.

[Coidzor]

Felixaar has an entire guide to how to talk to girls in his signature.

First off. Have you ever spoken to her?

[evil-frosty]

yes i have spoken to her. But i just get really nervous when i am talking to a girl i like and its just us, i just want advice on how to overcome my nervousness.

[Gray Jester]

yes i have spoken to her. But i just get really nervous when i am talking to a girl i like and its just us, i just want advice on how to overcome my nervousness.

Felixaar has a guide, but I think the advice is probably going to boil down to this: Tell yourself it doesn't matter. Take a deep breath, and go with it. You can't force yourself to not be nervous, but you can control your response to it: just pretend it's normal, and eventually, it will be. It'll take some practice, though. You can't just get good at talking to people you like overnight. Don't get discouraged, and keep working on it.

[evil-frosty]

Thanks i guess thats all i can do.

[Felixaar]

Serp, I reccomend knives, or possibly axes. Though admittedly, reorith is better with that kind of advice. Seriously though, I don't really know what you could do. If they start to actually harass you you could talk to your boss, otherwise your best bet is just to avoid them. Of course, you could always try talking to them about it but that kind of sounds like a lost cause.

GMM, I agree with everyone else, she definetly needs to know how you feel. After all she could be feeling the same way about it, wanting to but not sure if you do. Go double or nothing and hope for the best. You might want to check out the talking to girls link in my sig.

SilentNight, I hate to be a downer but I have to agree with Syka on this one. Unless you feel like you have fundamentally changed and are ready to be a bit less awkward and a bit more confident in the relationship, it just seems like going back for another beating. Of course, if you are ready to try again from a new angle and with more knowledge, then all speed ahead, captain. Keep in mind you don't necessarily have to be in a relationship with someone to be their Valentine, or have any romantic feelings towards them.

Coid, best to go with something neutral since you don't have any knowledge yet. Perhaps just some typical milk chocolates in a heart shaped box. A lot of girls tend to like Dark chocolate as well, I've found.

evil-frosty, first of, congratulations on getting over your previous relaitonship. That's a very hard thing to do, and you should be commeneded for doing it. As for asking girls out, as Coid already mentioned there is a talking to girls link in my sig which should be of some help.

edit: I find the best way to get over nervousness is just to do things despite the nervousness. After you do it once, it'll be easier, and so forth. The important thing is just to do things before you can think too much about the consequences (obviously this should not be applied to some situations, but when it comes to talking to girls I think it's pretty safe).

On Valentines Day, I like it. The key is not to get to serious about and just to have some fun with the whole idea. After all, if I ask a million girls sooner or later one of them will say yes and then we can enjoy the day.

[Shraik]

I don't nessecarily feel like I need advice, just, err stuff.

Well, beginning of the school year I met this girl. Rather cute. We're great friends now. Do stuff together and all that, saw a play last week. We saw a movie a while aog and are planning for watchmen. In december, I asked her to a movie, and then she later asked me if it was meant as a date(I had meant to ask her if she wanted to consider it that), stating she wants to stay friends. So we're still friends. More time goes by, more stuff happens, and after me asking her, she tells me she thinks it'll never happen between us. Depressing, quite. I'm a bit more calm with it now. I'm one of the few people from School she really talks to outside of school, we spend alot of time together during the day, hugs and all that jazz still going on, and we are for the most part comfortable with each other.
Even though she said it will never happen, I stil have this odd feeling that it could. A sense of optimism I usually don't have even without rejection. Things just seem so different this time. It's weird.(and of course things are alot more serious this time also. Crushes previously were trying to find someone when I felt lonely and teenage lust. Neither are good. THis girl really is something great, someone well versed, smart, mature, and really caring, and well basicly the premise of the song "Bargain" by the Who sums up what I think. No matter what I do, if I won her, it would be a bargain. It's alot more sweet then it sounds.)

[snoopy13a]

I don't nessecarily feel like I need advice, just, err stuff.

Well, beginning of the school year I met this girl. Rather cute. We're great friends now. Do stuff together and all that, saw a play last week. We saw a movie a while aog and are planning for watchmen. In december, I asked her to a movie, and then she later asked me if it was meant as a date(I had meant to ask her if she wanted to consider it that), stating she wants to stay friends. So we're still friends. More time goes by, more stuff happens, and after me asking her, she tells me she thinks it'll never happen between us. Depressing, quite. I'm a bit more calm with it now. I'm one of the few people from School she really talks to outside of school, we spend alot of time together during the day, hugs and all that jazz still going on, and we are for the most part comfortable with each other.
Even though she said it will never happen, I stil have this odd feeling that it could. A sense of optimism I usually don't have even without rejection. Things just seem so different this time. It's weird.(and of course things are alot more serious this time also. Crushes previously were trying to find someone when I felt lonely and teenage lust. Neither are good. THis girl really is something great, someone well versed, smart, mature, and really caring, and well basicly the premise of the song "Bargain" by the Who sums up what I think. No matter what I do, if I won her, it would be a bargain. It's alot more sweet then it sounds.)

Well, you entered the dreaded "friend zone". On the bright side, she hasn't uttered the words: "You're like a brother to me" yet. That's when all hope is lost :smalltongue:

I'd say there are two possible reasons why she doesn't want to date you:

1) She doesn't want risk your platonic friendship by entering a romantic one that could end badly
2) She doesn't feel a physical attraction

Chances are that she'll always want to stay "just friends". If you want to pursue romance, I'd suggest looking elsewhere.

[Serpentine]

@ Serp:

I have an ex that I still work with. The first few weeks were hardest, I ended up taking leave and going on a long holiday because proximity to the woman grated against wounds that hadn't healed. Space was required, and from the sound is what you want. Can you take leave/holidays? Even just a few days to set yourself in order and brace for the inevitable contact? It does take time and after a while you can become inured to the point where they are like a part of the office furniture.

After about 18 months (I was the one with the problem, and was majorly peeved by her actions) I was able to talk to her reasonably about subjects other than work. We are now reasonably good friends to the point of being able to go for lunch together and talk candidly.

I guess what I am trying to say, in my roundabout way, is that any kind of reconciliation won't happen whilst one party or other feels the injury still. Avoid re-opening wounds, and be professional.

I know it's not the best advice in the world but hope it helps.Well, I only work there four hours a week over two days at the moment, so extended proximity isn't going to be too much of a problem :smalltongue: Thanks, though. It does make me feel a bit better to know that it took you 18 months to... "get over it". Makes me feel not so bad about still being angry and uncomfortable around them 8+ months afterwards (though the really bad stuff only ended about 3 months ago. Holy crap, did it go for that long? :smalleek:)

Serp, I reccomend knives, or possibly axes. Though admittedly, reorith is better with that kind of advice. Seriously though, I don't really know what you could do. If they start to actually harass you you could talk to your boss, otherwise your best bet is just to avoid them. Of course, you could always try talking to them about it but that kind of sounds like a lost cause.They're far too self righteous to do anything except be all high-and-mighty at me. My last-ditch effort at salvaging something positive from our relationships was a couple of emails sent in October or November. In December he'd told me that he hadn't had much access to the internet (he'd been using mine in November!), and that his email was chock-full of stuff, but he'd get round to reading it in January (how generous). So far as I know, he hasn't, and never will. So, yeah, lost cause, at least for probably some years.
Thanks y'all.

Evil-frosty: "Hey. I find you pretty interesting, and was wondering whether you'd like to come to [place/event] with me on [date/time]?" If you do do something with her, talk to her. I cannot stress this enough. Don't sit there like a lump. Basic conversation isn't all that hard, just an exchange of questions and answers.

Snoopy: You don't have to give up hope entirely, just don't hang out waiting for her or put pressure on her. Give her an occasional gentle reminder that you still like her in that way, but without expectations.

[skywalker]

I don't nessecarily feel like I need advice, just, err stuff.

Well, beginning of the school year I met this girl. Rather cute. We're great friends now. Do stuff together and all that, saw a play last week. We saw a movie a while aog and are planning for watchmen. In december, I asked her to a movie, and then she later asked me if it was meant as a date(I had meant to ask her if she wanted to consider it that), stating she wants to stay friends. So we're still friends. More time goes by, more stuff happens, and after me asking her, she tells me she thinks it'll never happen between us. Depressing, quite. I'm a bit more calm with it now. I'm one of the few people from School she really talks to outside of school, we spend alot of time together during the day, hugs and all that jazz still going on, and we are for the most part comfortable with each other.
Even though she said it will never happen, I stil have this odd feeling that it could. A sense of optimism I usually don't have even without rejection. Things just seem so different this time. It's weird.(and of course things are alot more serious this time also. Crushes previously were trying to find someone when I felt lonely and teenage lust. Neither are good. THis girl really is something great, someone well versed, smart, mature, and really caring, and well basicly the premise of the song "Bargain" by the Who sums up what I think. No matter what I do, if I won her, it would be a bargain. It's alot more sweet then it sounds.)

My advice is to give up on it. Forget it. Don't even think about it. Just do what you do. Wonderful Zen proverb: "When you seek it, you cannot find it."

In this type of situation, I find that just letting it fall into your lap works wonders. Luck, if you will. Of course, you should be prepared when the opportunity presents itself, that is all that luck is. Anyway, forgetting it, not even considering it has worked just fine for me. Gotten me two girls I never even came close to when I was making an effort to get them or even considering them options.

YMMV, of course.

[snoopy13a]

My advice is to give up on it. Forget it. Don't even think about it. Just do what you do. Wonderful Zen proverb: "When you seek it, you cannot find it."

In this type of situation, I find that just letting it fall into your lap works wonders. Luck, if you will. Of course, you should be prepared when the opportunity presents itself, that is all that luck is. Anyway, forgetting it, not even considering it has worked just fine for me. Gotten me two girls I never even came close to when I was making an effort to get them or even considering them options.

YMMV, of course.

That sounds like The Tao of Steve from the movie of the same name:

1. Eliminate your desires.
2. Do something excellent in her presence, thereby proving your sexual worthiness.
3. Retreat, for as Heidegger said, "We pursue that which retreats from us".

It actually does make sense. One of the strategies of talking to women is act like you already have a girlfriend. The goal is to present yourself as being friendly, interesting, relaxed and somewhat aloof, essentially the same way a buddy in a relationship would talk with a single woman. Ideally, the woman will find your aloofness intriguing and she'll start the aggressive flirtation in order to pursue you. Of course, this is much easier said then done as the "eliminating your desires" aspect is difficult.

[Felixaar]

Shraik, there's not really much you can do. You want to be with her, she doesn't want to be with you... theres really nowhere to go from that. Maybe just tell her that if she ever feels like pursuing it to tell you and you'll think about it, but if you try to court her futher you'll just wind up in trouble. Sorry, mate.

edit: oh, and I wouldn't recomend the pretend you have a girlfriend course of action to anyone. It does occasionally work, but it never works out. It's just not a good basis for a long term relationship.

[Coidzor]

edit: oh, and I wouldn't recomend the pretend you have a girlfriend course of action to anyone. It does occasionally work, but it never works out. It's just not a good basis for a long term relationship.

I think he meant mentally. As in, act as you would if you were in a relationship with another that you loved and did not want to betray. Rather than, y'know, just saying that you have a girlfriend in say, Canada.

Also, **** her just to spite her for not giving you something better than that. That way at least you're together in mild annoyance. At the very least, grab some distance and hold yourself much more aloof from her.

[snoopy13a]

edit: oh, and I wouldn't recomend the pretend you have a girlfriend course of action to anyone. It does occasionally work, but it never works out. It's just not a good basis for a long term relationship.

To clarify, you don't lie and say that you have a girlfriend. It is about trying to change one's mindset.

The strategy comes from the observations of that women tend to flirt more with men that currently have girlfriends even though the women are not aware of this. This is because men in a relationship are relaxed, confident, and not pushy. Since they aren't looking to impress anyone, they simply are being themselves. Men who are actively pursuing women are often nervous, overly aggressive and lack confidence. By the simple fact that many of the single men are shooting themselves in the foot, the man already in a relationship looks much better to the opposite sex. Combine that with his natural aloofness due to no interest to the women there and women can be attracted to him.

The key is to try and change one's mindset to be loose, relaxed, slightly aloof and confident in the same manner that a guy with a girlfriend does naturally without thinking. It is much easier said than done. Everyone knows that they are supposed to be confident and relaxed but many simply cannot pull it off.

There isn't really any true dishonesty involved as you aren't actually lying to anyone and the method is really only used to set up a first date. All it entails is changing one's mental approach, a sort of Zen dating :smalltongue:

[Felixaar]

I didn't say you do, and that's not really the problem - the crux of the issue is that it means the relationship would be based on the girls desire to prove she can have any man she wants, and about two weeks in it's likely to fizzle and die painfully.

[Coidzor]

I didn't say you do, and that's not really the problem - the crux of the issue is that it means the relationship would be based on the girls desire to prove she can have any man she wants, and about two weeks in it's likely to fizzle and die painfully.

I think still you are taking things a tad bit too literally here. Is more about the mental state anyway. Better chance with girls is better chance with girls. Flighty creatures that they are.

Fizzling would vary from girl to girl, of course.

[Felixaar]

You could well be right, Coid, but I don't think it'd be productive to continue discussion :smallsmile:

[Zeb The Troll]

So, in conclusion, the only good thing about Valentine's day is Batman and Power Rangers Valentine cards.Interestingly, while Alarra and I were out last night celebrating her passing of her test, I got a random Kung Fu Panda valentine from some kid at a nearby table. It was kinda cool. On the back it said "To: Ray Lewis From: (kid's name)" which is funny only in that I look NOTHING like Ray Lewis. But that's okay, my grandtroll got one from the same kid that was "To:The Dolphins".

:smallcool:

Slightly on topic and out of curiosity - What do people think about letting him/her know how you feel electronically? I put myself out there with Alarra via PM after we met at a meetup in TN (Woooo, Johnson City!) and it's obviously worked well. But I'm wondering if that's something that would normally work or if I'm just lucky that she didn't read some sort of cowardice into my message.

Some thoughts I have on it...

Pros - It lets you craft your message rather than fumbling around with it. It takes the pressure away from the other about being put on the spot and having to turn you down in person if they don't reciprocate. I mean, most people have a harder time hurting someone's feelings in person.

Cons - It could look like you're too afraid to talk to them in person. They don't get to see how cute you look being all squirmy around them. :smallredface:

Thoughts?

[Midnight Son]

Zeb, I asked my girlfriend out via chat session. Seems to be working out so far...:smallsmile:

[xPANCAKEx]

Zeb - unless its for the most basic of dates ("lets grab coffee some time") with minimal romantic interest, or in situations where other methods of communication (ie: the phone) are a no-go, then i'd avoid it

[Syka]

Zeb, it depends. In your situation, I'm inclined to say it was OK. In ones where there is frequent face-to-face contact or frequent face-to-face contact is possible, it's usually better to not do it through electronic means.

Then again, you could call me a raging hypocrite here. :smallsmile: The major events with the last guy I dated happened through AIM and Myspace: he asked me out and said I Love You over AIM, and I broke up with him on Myspace. That whole relationship-dating-thing was just weird, though, plus I was over 200 miles away for most of it (although not when he asked me out, we still had a class together then *rolls eyes*).

Cheers~

[Coidzor]

Well, most of my communication with my first girlfriend was online through AIM, so that's pretty much where our flirtation came to anything first. We went to High school together but I wasn't really comfortable on the phone, especially with my older brother who knew her listening in and what I knew of her grandma that she lived with hearing us.

So I had a wiggy experience where I had already asked her out over AIM and we were going out but she insisted that I ask her out in person in front of a witness before she'd make out with me after school. Which was a bit odd. But, y'know, I think that was more Highschool stuff than anything else.

Hmm... I can't remember if I asked out my third girlfriend over AIM or email or if it was over the phone sometime after she called me up randomly out of the blue and confessed that she had been in love with me for awhile, and yadda yadda yadda about why she had pushed me away when I first asked her out and such... That was nice... until I found out that she went from that when I told her I had to go for five minutes and would call her back and couldn't get ahold of her (so I just thought she went to sleep) but instead decided to screw some guy she didn't even know.

We might never have actually formally had an "asking out" moment beyond that phone call and the subsequent phone calls before she moved back to town from two states over where she'd moved with her family during high school.

#4 we started flirting on AIM after she found me on myspace after hanging out at a class picnic, and then we started making out at her place when one of us proposed watching the harry potter movie(s?) the night before the release party for book 5(I think). Then we went to the release party together and that was pretty much that, I just had to get in touch with #3 in order to dump her since she had moved back to live with her family and whore it up at some military base there. Which was harder than you'd think, despite the fact that we had left on good terms, if a bit chilly due to my finding out about her... proclivities.

And now you know why I have difficulty respecting or trusting girls who place an inordinate amount of respect or attraction for men in uniform. :smalltongue:

[eidreff]

I have two friends who are now married, but met their partner's online, and had a purely online relationship for a good time before arranging an actual real life date.

Both marriages seem to be doing fine.

These two are unusual in my experience tho' *shrug* different strokes for different folks i guess. It could also depend on just how poetic and crafted the proposal is.

[Totally Guy]

I was going out with a girl at the beginning of the year until about a week ago.

She was getting very busy with lots of shifts at her place of work and increased loads of coursework from uni. So the last time I caught her online about a week ago she suggested we cool off a bit until she actually has time for a relationship.

And just now she's boasting about her bisexual threesome conquests on facebook.

I'm very upset now.

[xPANCAKEx]

Glug - your upset with the situation is understandable, as it seems both partially dishonest on her part, and has left some unanswered questions for you. For now i'd suggest avoiding initiating contact, and also avoid reading over her facebook where possible - although this isn't always possible with status updates, i know (one of the worst mistakes anyone can make after a break up is 'keeping tabs' on their ex through electronic means - you'll never get the whole picture on a social networking site).

A few things to bear in mind - despite any upset you may be feeling, don't get too down on yourself. From what you've said, theres no blame/guilt that you can assign to yourself. Secondly - she may have been entirely right about not having time for a relationship: emotional relationships are much more demanding than purely-sexual ones, and she may have felt it was unfair to you to only be able to offer the latter.

Get some 'distance' for yourself and give the wounds time to heal - if she tries to talk to you about, make sure you express yourself fully but constructively -shutting her out at such a time will cut out an oppertunity to get the answers that you may need. You won't ever get the answers you need for closure if she feels like you're interrogating her or having a go.

Although it may be worth spending a little time asking yourself "would you want to pick things back up where they left off, knowing what she has done after calling it off" - you may not be operating with full knowledge of the situation, so make sure you ask the questions you need to ask if the possibility arises

[Syka]

Everything Pancake said, plus this:

Are you sure she wasn't joking around? I have a lot of friends who joke about stuff like that with their friends and even my friends and I sometimes do. There is a picture of me and a friend fake groping each other for instance (hands obviously not in contact with said areas).

But yeah, what Pancake said.

[Pyrian]

I was going out with a girl at the beginning of the year until about a week ago.

She was getting very busy with lots of shifts at her place of work and increased loads of coursework from uni. So the last time I caught her online about a week ago she suggested we cool off a bit until she actually has time for a relationship.

And just now she's boasting about her bisexual threesome conquests on facebook.

I'm very upset now.The thing that really strikes me about this is your perspective. Essentially, you believed that you were dumped due to her not having enough time in her life for you. That's something people get told a lot, but not only is it generally not realistic, it's very nearly impossible. No, it's not totally impossible, but as a rule of thumb any time somebody doesn't have time for you in their life you should take it as being let down "easy".

The underlying reality is that scheduling is matter of priorities. When someone says "I don't have time to ... with you" what they are also saying is that "doing ... with you is not important enough to me to find time for". You have fallen off the bottom of their priority list. If they're really into you, this simply does not happen.

So, when someone breaks up with you claiming they don't have time for a relationship, it's almost guaranteed that they basically mean they won't make time for a relationship with you but don't want to put it that way. In my experience, people saying that frequently have their next relationship already lined up!

Anyway, I'm sorry you were broken up with, but you'd best move on. She probably has.

[VeisuItaTyhjyys]

It is the morning of Friday the Thirteenth and she smokes a cigarette out her window as though it is nothing. There are lines shaved in her hair, up like a bird of Paradise, red and dyed, a colour between wine and blood that makes me think of Christ, as does the sacrifice between her lips, slowly crucifying lungs and throat and sacred heart for some beauty impossible to endure, an idea of love that coming even close to sent me spiralling into the sea, beneath which the only devil is oneself, and the only hell the ashes of one's foolish wings. It is when looking at her I see the idiocy of desire for flight; all that happens when one flies is tired wings, and distance from the things most worth seeing.

The sun, harsh and close as it is where we come from and where she has remained, and I have fled, contrasts the clouds behind me, and the smoke from her American Spirit tries to connect us, she turns a fan on and tears its guts out to remind it not to repeat her mistakes. Her eyeshadow is green and growing, like a forest she weaves with her hands. I think of watching her mix her pigments and paint and the pulsing palpitations of my heart as I braved the sun which makes me sick, more rebellious than the contraband cigarettes or clashing clothes and coloured, counter-culture cut hair, to watch her paint a tree. It's boring, she says, I tell her I love her boring pictures the most, since she still finds a way to make them unique. It is hot in the late fall and I have just begun to smoke again, to taste her kiss when it is not on my lips, a habit I still find trouble breaking, though the chemical addiction has no hold upon me.

This morning, I have no anger, I have Nick Cave, a glass by my side, a cigarette in my lips again (because everything, even transience, is transient), and I'm smiling coyly through a computer like I am younger than I have ever felt, save a few moments when I tasted rain not wracked with pollution, sweet like candy I never knew how to enjoy. She is not and never will be anyone's girlfriend, or wife, or lover, or baby, or doll. She is her own, and happy only in her unhappiness. I am the same, and it is from that our tragic attraciton comes, and our brutal repulsion, with a wordlier, more banal sadness to it, rises, a morose, arguably ironic joke of a metaphysical dance where a real one will never be placed.

I love her fingers, the thick brows of her eyes. I love the way she erases each line once and draws it again, no-matter how correct it was. I love the way she hesitates to be humble, afraid even that is too proud for so lowly a creature as her. I love her scars, the bumbs on a skin that confirm a being, rather than a skeleton more lifeless than movies make them, lives inside it. I love the memories of her; biting at her lips as though I could get inside her head through them if I fought enough, smoking for her when her wisdom teeth were out, a poison kiss where we shared our unique breath. I love that we come to each-other's longing and our own demise. I love her personality, and each of her aspects, I love the intellect she buries beneath shy words and downcast eyes. That everything is a secret, slipped out into the world only for you, by a mistake brought on by the occasional poetic turn of phrase pretty enough to puncture her defenses.

I love her, and I love her wholly andcompletely, though, and more, even, because, it can never and will never "work out." Love isn't about sex, marriage, relationships or even a chance. It's about a better, more beautiful, emotion, and I wish it for all of you. Happy Valentine's day, Hope and all of you.

[averagejoe]

Interestingly, while Alarra and I were out last night celebrating her passing of her test, I got a random Kung Fu Panda valentine from some kid at a nearby table. It was kinda cool. On the back it said "To: Ray Lewis From: (kid's name)" which is funny only in that I look NOTHING like Ray Lewis. But that's okay, my grandtroll got one from the same kid that was "To:The Dolphins".

That's cute, and pretty cool. One might even go so far to say that's what Valentine's day is all about.

Wow, the more I think about it the better idea that is. Too bad I'm sick and won't be seeing many people tomorrow or I would totally do that.

[Totally Guy]

The underlying reality is that scheduling is matter of priorities. When someone says "I don't have time to ... with you" what they are also saying is that "doing ... with you is not important enough to me to find time for". You have fallen off the bottom of their priority list. If they're really into you, this simply does not happen.

I thought this was the case as I've kind of used it myself. Not to get out of a relationship but to condition myself into not seeking relationships. "No relationships until I'm through education", I'd say to myself. But I abandoned that motif several years ago. Unfortunately by this time I was vastly less experienced than everyone else in the dating pool and it's just been an insecurity ever since. So for her to even say she's having some kind of intercourse full stop is just taking that insecurity and dragging it through a field.

I'm feeling really lonely today as I'm not seeing any friends. In fact now I'm doing nothing all weekend so I need to find some kind of back up plan.

[xPANCAKEx]

I'm feeling really lonely today as I'm not seeing any friends. In fact now I'm doing nothing all weekend so I need to find some kind of back up plan.

exercise - "personal health is personal wealth" and all that. An excercise regime not only boosts your self esteem and sense of self confidence, but also does wonders for focusing the mind on educational matters.

so spend the day concentrating on yourself

[Felixaar]

Everything Pancake said, plus this:

Are you sure she wasn't joking around? I have a lot of friends who joke about stuff like that with their friends and even my friends and I sometimes do. There is a picture of me and a friend fake groping each other for instance (hands obviously not in contact with said areas).

But yeah, what Pancake said.

...buh?

Sorry, I heard groping and sort of trailed off.

On online asking out, it works in some cases and doesn't work in others. I don't think it's really a right or wrong factor, because it depends on the people involved. I, personally, have been turned against online relationships simply because I've grown sick of the whole 'waiting' thing - every confirmed i-like-you-you-like-me thing I've ever been in has been "we'll be together in a few months/years" and just run out of passion a long time before then.

Midi, Damn it, Man! You have to tell us when there is such news.

...Damn!

Glug, that's pretty harsh. If her boasts are true than I guess you just have to accept she's probably not the kind of girl you'd want to be with in the first place. In the end, this will probably work out for the best, even though it feels hard now. Be strong.

[Pyrian]

I, personally, have been turned against online relationships simply because I've grown sick of the whole 'waiting' thing - every confirmed i-like-you-you-like-me thing I've ever been in has been "we'll be together in a few months/years" and just run out of passion a long time before then.Heheh, I'd totally be all "Hey, I see there's a P.F. Chang's near where you live, how about great Chinese food at 6:30pm?"
"But, but you're 1000 miles away!"
"Yup. I could pick you up at six?"

Ah, long-term professional employment coupled with a near-total lack of financial obligations. :smallcool:

[xPANCAKEx]

Midi, Damn it, Man! You have to tell us when there is such news.

...Damn!


i hope that rule doesn't apply to me - else this thread would just get backed up with "weekly updates of pancake's manslaggery and womanising"

[Copacetic]

i hope that rule doesn't apply to me - else this thread would just get backed up with "weekly updates of pancake's manslaggery and womanising"

Thanks for Not sharing!


In other news, ummmmm

*does not actually have relationship news*

Look! A badger!

*flee*

[xPANCAKEx]

meh - im at a stage in my life where i don't want a relationship, but still enjoy companionship and having fun in both the PG-13 sense and the "lets hang out and all have a laugh sense"

i manage to do so while keeping it all above board and fair

[Coidzor]

I'd say the worst thing about a first date after being in a relationship for awhile is the intense longing for the intimacy that was lost that's triggered by getting that taste of closeness.

Because wow... I was enjoying myself on the date and everything... and now that I'm back in my room alone on Valentine's Night. Hit me like a ton of bricks, this rather creepy and infantile desire to be held. @_@ So now I'm all melancholy despite having enjoyed myself quite thoroughly after I finally get her talking.

Main problem with geeky chicks is that it's hard to interact with them if there's a shiny game around, even if you're playing with them and kicking their ass while they learn the differences between Smash Bros Brawl and Melee...

We had to reschedule our movie for tomorrow since we took longer eating dinner than I had expected (seriously, an hour and 20 minutes at dinner when we scheduled dinner an hour and 20 minutes before the movie so we'd have travel time as a buffer...@_@ That was crazy)...

So how does one draw someone out into conversation? Because I've had a little success in getting her to start talking by asking about her and her college goals and why she wants to become a doctor and all... but keeping it going was like pulling teeth both in figuring out how to do it for myself and...yeah...

V: But would anyone really care if you had gone beyond PG stuff with the guy?

[Syka]

On contact during games: the boyfriend and I generally hook arms while gaming together. :smallsmile:

On conversation: find a topic of mutual interest that doesn't have to do with her obligations (like school).

That said, maybe she just isn't much of a conversationalist? :\ I'm bad with the whole what to talk about thing since I'm one of those people who spontaneously make friends but never consciously try. >>

Pancake, have fun. :smallsmile: Being young is fun. Even though I didn't date around, I definitely dated a guy in between my two serious relationships that was more "He's attractive, we have similar interests, and neither of us wants anything serious- awesome." Granted, he ended up being more eye candy than substence which is probably the main reason we fell out of contact, but...hey, it was fun (and nothing beyond PG-13 stuff).

[Pyrian]

So how does one draw someone out into conversation? Because I've had a little success in getting her to start talking by asking about her and her college goals and why she wants to become a doctor and all... but keeping it going was like pulling teeth both in figuring out how to do it for myself and...yeah...One of the most interesting people I ever dated was a lot like this. Our first date was hell on chatty ol' me. I really didn't know what to do, or what to make of it. She had a pretty bad case of Asperger's Syndrome. It took a long, long time to draw her out of her shell, but it really was worth it.

That's one possibility... There are others. :smallconfused:

Anyway, I recommend a couple large helpings of patience, gentleness, and persistence.

[Coidzor]

One of the most interesting people I ever dated was a lot like this. Our first date was hell on chatty ol' me. I really didn't know what to do, or what to make of it. She had a pretty bad case of Asperger's Syndrome. It took a long, long time to draw her out of her shell, but it really was worth it.

That's one possibility... There are others. :smallconfused:

Anyway, I recommend a couple large helpings of patience, gentleness, and persistence.

I mean... I know she's a fan of star wars and other nerdy things, it's just... been a bit hard to bring that up since she's all self-conscious of starting to rant about them or something...

Hmm...

[xPANCAKEx]

the aim of a first-date is to make the other person feel good about you: to feel comfortable and to have a good time. Non-talkers fall into 3 catagories:
a) those who lack self confidence to talk about themselves
b) those people who arn't that interesting
c) they're having a cruddy day

now when i say this people have a tendancy to focus on group B and go off on a tagent discussing why they're even they are even there. Lets not waste time on that for now, and discuss a solution (why complain about a problem when you can spend time solving it)

usually the best advice to give to a guy on a first date is to "get them talking about themselves for a while" - its both a familiar topic (comfortable), and also shows that you've got an interest in them (good time - ego boosting), but of course with non-talkers this isn't always a viable option. So talk about yourself instead - keep it fairly light at first, throw in a few jokes and get a few laughs. For the A group this will ease their nerves and help them relax. For the B group, it may turn a few heads and may make them think twice about you. For the C-types it will hopefully improve their moods a bit (but to be honest if their days been that bad that they're anti-social they should really call rain check - with the onnus being on them to re-schedual)

now im not saying this is the be-all and end all of problem solvers on this one, but in more than a few situations it helps, so give it a whirl. Talk about yourself for a while - if they still don't warm up, then cut your losses and call it a night

After all - if you make the effort and they don't, is that REALLY someone you want to date, let alone get into a relationship with? Let them make the effort from now on. If they want to ask for a second date, thats their call, but you have to bare in mind if it will be a repeat of the first. Don't make excuses for them or 'chase' after them

Further considerations for the future

this is all second-date related stuff - not neccisarily relavant, but some of you may like to read/ponder over things

now im breaking into pop-psych here a bit, but i know if you've been wanting to date a person for a while, you've usually built them up in your head a bit - how they're going to be great/funny/make you feel all warm and fuzzy

the reality is if you don't click on a date because they're not communicating, you may need to re-asses this

A-types - if they're so shy that they take a while to come out of their shell, then you're going to have to put in that effort (And it IS effort on your part - i know its valentines day, but im not letting you romantic types have a free pass here :smallwink:). Take that into consideration. Do you want someone to date, or a project?

B-types - if they're not that interested in you enough to hold a conversation, for the LOVE OF SNUGGLES AND ALL THAT IS YARN-LIKE please don't persue them. You're just smashing your own ego and sense of self worth against the rocks here. Don't assume they are C-types. Its up to them to appologise and ask to reschedual - and not your place (no matter how optimistic you're trying to be) to make excuses for them. If you do you're just leading yourself on. After all - if you're worth dating, and they've had a bad day, you diserve an appology. No appology? lump them into B


C-types -as stated, this catagory is really only something they can personally elect into. If they don't, they're a B. You can't choose to call them a C just because it suits your romantic desires better. Call a spade a spade. But if they do make the effort to appologise for being in a bad mood, and ask you for a second date, then TAKE NOTE. They've not only got the confidence to "man-up" (i don't know what the female equivilant is, sorry girls :( ) and appologise, but also think you're worthy of better treatment. Two attributes worth considering in a potential date. If you chose to accept, and they have another bad day - then don't rush into a third if they ask for it. Its not worth dating anyone whos going to continually be in a bad mood.


Coid - hell no - if shes into it and so are you, then get talking about it! Laugh at the idiosyncrisies of it all (going on a "sorry fan boys, boba's dead!" schpiel can certainly get a few laughs). Us nerds to love a bit of self-deprocation after all. Even if she goes on a mini-rant then bring it back to something that gets her laughing every time and she'll soon warm up

[Klose_the_Sith]

Well, what brief happiness I had has dried up (wasn't that much but it was something) and now I'm back to unrequited like with someone completely oblivious, and being unable to even try something with the cute girl who is making it increasingly likely that she has an interest. Grah.

Not so much asking for advice as just looking for an outlet, but I am having serious trouble relaxing around girls at my new school and was wondering about it ...

[Pyrian]

A-types - if they're so shy that they take a while to come out of their shell, then you're going to have to put in that effort (And it IS effort on your part - i know its valentines day, but im not letting you romantic types have a free pass here :smallwink:). Take that into consideration. Do you want someone to date, or a project?While I agree with the denotative substance of this, I kind of disagree with the tone of it. Relationships are something worth working on, inherently. Few if any relationships are always easy. If you're not willing to consider the relationship (as opposed to the other person) at times to be a "project" then maybe dating is not for you and you should consider prostitutes.

Most jewels are found in the rough. :smallcool:

[xPANCAKEx]

While I agree with the denotative substance of this, I kind of disagree with the tone of it. Relationships are something worth working on, inherently. Few if any relationships are always easy. If you're not willing to consider the relationship (as opposed to the other person) at times to be a "project" then maybe dating is not for you and you should consider prostitutes.

Most jewels are found in the rough. :smallcool:

for clarity (as i can see why on re-reading it can be misinterpreted) when i say a "project" i mean more for the people that its going to require a lot of time helping them come out of their shell,... and bare in mind that this is still all in the context of DATING and not a relationship (they're a completely different kettle of fish)

Sadly i've heard too many people say "oh its no trouble at all" - and thats dismissive of their own self worth. Even if you give your time, care and attention and affection to someone freely (as you well should - you should not consider yourself owed anything by right), be conscious of the fact you are giving them. In the course of a relationship you sometimes have to ask yourself "is this person worthy of it" - and you should especially make sure to ask this at the start of something (ie: starting dating)

If you're going to spend so much time concentrating on helping build your potential other half's self esteem that they can stop being so cripplingly shy that they can't hold a conversation, then it can detract from the point of going on a date all together: TO HAVE FUN. It should feel fun for you and the person you're dating. Not fun for them, and emotionally draining for you. The point at which someone stops being a date and becomes a project is when the emotional toll on yourself put into helping them relax and ease up outweighs the actual enjoyment you gain from it.

We've all got our issues, but you should never go on a date with someone with the intention of having to play councillor. Put someones nerves at ease by all means - dating can sometimes be a scary thing - but you shouldn't have to sit there and convince them that its ok to open up and relax a little.

If you're worth dating, you're worth more than that.

[Pyrian]

It's the conflation of "emotionally draining" with "dealing with a cripplingly shy date" that I find objectionable. I mean, obviously it stressed out Coidzor, but I'd like to think that's just inexperience. I like introverts. I find extroverts far more "emotionally draining". It's always a challenge to begin building intimacy (and yes, I conflate that with dating because I'm not particularly into casual dating and not because it's strictly speaking necessary) but that challenge is just as tough - indeed, in my experience tougher - when it's shallow conversation freely given.

[Coidzor]

I think the main problem was that we hadn't seen each other in awhile so we were getting acclimated and basically doing that thing where you translate the flirtation and such that was going on through IM and the phone into how you actually interact in person. Because, y'know, even though she was flirting with me about dancing and maybe even making out if I were good, I could tell she was still getting used to seeing me again, since the last time we really spent much time together I still went clean-shaven...

and also, she's just one of those people who is quiet. The problem is, that those people who are quiet won't let you know how they're feeling unless you draw them out somehow. Which is annoying since she didn't mention that she had hurt her feet until after we'd gone on an hour long walk. :smallmad:

...She apparently was rather impressed at how...deftly or whatever I ordered our meal at the restaurant after she hesitated for some reason even though she'd decided what she was going to get within a minute of looking at the menu. I just went with something I'd had before since she had been so quick. :smallsigh: Which saddened me because I like trying out something new there when I go since it's really authentic and pretty good szechuan cuisine they have there.

And now I have heartburn from coughing or something during eating that spicy food and gorging myself on 6 reese's cups due to feeling horrible when I got home due to missing my ex's dinner conversation.

I tried being funny, is always risky for me since most of my humor is... well, collegiate male humor. Or nerdy humor which I'm more rusty at and I'm not sure how much of that she can appreciate it.

Did ask her about other things but still was rather difficult. About the time the food arrived we actually did get to talking, but I think I had gotten tired out from having wanted to talk earlier when we were playing Brawl and trying to draw her out during the walk and earlier when we were heading to dinner that I was kinda exhaustedish.

I know after I walked her to her door I just sorta...zonked out for a few minutes and even after I came to from that daze I zoned in and out for half of the drive. Fortunately and unfortunately I wasn't actually driving. :/

I think partially I was disappointed that no dancing was to be had, since she had said she was going to be digging up some appropriate music for it... and she didn't really. And I didn't really care about the music so much anyway. :smalltongue:

The other part is that I think I'm partially feeling some aftershocks of nostalgia for my ex. Mostly because I'm worried about her having just gone to China this past wednesday.

V:Felix: Yeah... I think it's mostly just the panic of not being used to having to draw someone out into conversation. We're not really dating per se, but we had to take a rain check on the movie tonight for tomorrow so whatever that means. I know I definitely don't consider myself going out with a girl if I haven't even made out with her yet.

[Felixaar]

Heheh, I'd totally be all "Hey, I see there's a P.F. Chang's near where you live, how about great Chinese food at 6:30pm?"
"But, but you're 1000 miles away!"
"Yup. I could pick you up at six?"

Ah, long-term professional employment coupled with a near-total lack of financial obligations. :smallcool:

...So... so... what do you do again? Because I could be totally in on this.

Coid, some people are difficult to have conversations with. I know that I can be a pain in the ass until you get to know me (after that I'm a pain in more places), mainly because I have difficulty keeping a conversation going - as you know, a conversation is a series of questions and answers, and while I'm damn good at the answering part I often have a lot of trouble coming up with things to ask people about. This may however be related to the fact that most of my conversations lately have been with my parent's friends, and once you get past "soooo... nice weather we've been having lately...." or "****, those bush fires are terrible, arent they?" (<which I don't really like to talk about anyway), there's just not much to talk about with them.

But! I'm not terrible with all people. Rather, there are some people who I just constantly ask about themselves all the time. Dragonrider for one will attest that whenever I manage to catch her online, I just hammer her with incessant quesitons until she manages to conjurr up a reasonable excuse to ditch me :smallwink:

The point is, people either click or they don't, and as much as I hate to say it, if you have such difficulty with conversation, and it frustrates you so, then it just doesn't bode well for the relationship. By no means break up with her, I'm probably horribly wrong, but I'm just saying... don't put too many eggs in this basket.

Klose your love life is like one of my homemade sweaters - namely, it's tangle of wool that once swallowed my cat. A few questions - the girl who is totally oblivious, ever tried making her unoblivious? and the cute girl who you think is interested, why can't you try anything with her? Sorry for the recent end of happiness, but, hey, such things happen mate. *hugs* dun worry. There's plenty o' girls out there (they actually putnumber us. Scary, innit?) and so long as you leave at least one for me, I'm sure you can find a good'un... 'ventually.

[skywalker]

It is the morning of Friday the Thirteenth and she smokes a cigarette out her window as though it is nothing. There are lines shaved in her hair, up like a bird of Paradise, red and dyed, a colour between wine and blood that makes me think of Christ, as does the sacrifice between her lips, slowly crucifying lungs and throat and sacred heart for some beauty impossible to endure, an idea of love that coming even close to sent me spiralling into the sea, beneath which the only devil is oneself, and the only hell the ashes of one's foolish wings. It is when looking at her I see the idiocy of desire for flight; all that happens when one flies is tired wings, and distance from the things most worth seeing.

The sun, harsh and close as it is where we come from and where she has remained, and I have fled, contrasts the clouds behind me, and the smoke from her American Spirit tries to connect us, she turns a fan on and tears its guts out to remind it not to repeat her mistakes. Her eyeshadow is green and growing, like a forest she weaves with her hands. I think of watching her mix her pigments and paint and the pulsing palpitations of my heart as I braved the sun which makes me sick, more rebellious than the contraband cigarettes or clashing clothes and coloured, counter-culture cut hair, to watch her paint a tree. It's boring, she says, I tell her I love her boring pictures the most, since she still finds a way to make them unique. It is hot in the late fall and I have just begun to smoke again, to taste her kiss when it is not on my lips, a habit I still find trouble breaking, though the chemical addiction has no hold upon me.

This morning, I have no anger, I have Nick Cave, a glass by my side, a cigarette in my lips again (because everything, even transience, is transient), and I'm smiling coyly through a computer like I am younger than I have ever felt, save a few moments when I tasted rain not wracked with pollution, sweet like candy I never knew how to enjoy. She is not and never will be anyone's girlfriend, or wife, or lover, or baby, or doll. She is her own, and happy only in her unhappiness. I am the same, and it is from that our tragic attraciton comes, and our brutal repulsion, with a wordlier, more banal sadness to it, rises, a morose, arguably ironic joke of a metaphysical dance where a real one will never be placed.

I love her fingers, the thick brows of her eyes. I love the way she erases each line once and draws it again, no-matter how correct it was. I love the way she hesitates to be humble, afraid even that is too proud for so lowly a creature as her. I love her scars, the bumbs on a skin that confirm a being, rather than a skeleton more lifeless than movies make them, lives inside it. I love the memories of her; biting at her lips as though I could get inside her head through them if I fought enough, smoking for her when her wisdom teeth were out, a poison kiss where we shared our unique breath. I love that we come to each-other's longing and our own demise. I love her personality, and each of her aspects, I love the intellect she buries beneath shy words and downcast eyes. That everything is a secret, slipped out into the world only for you, by a mistake brought on by the occasional poetic turn of phrase pretty enough to puncture her defenses.

I love her, and I love her wholly andcompletely, though, and more, even, because, it can never and will never "work out." Love isn't about sex, marriage, relationships or even a chance. It's about a better, more beautiful, emotion, and I wish it for all of you. Happy Valentine's day, Hope and all of you.

Why doesn't anybody ever tell this guy what a good job he's done? Good job... guy whose name I can't pronounce. Sad and sweet. A little glimpse into some very private things... Thanks for sharing. I don't know why no one else commented.

Oh, in somewhat related and if you couldn't tell news, I had a great Valentine's Day and evening with my lady friend, and I'm high as a kite (metaphorically, not chemically). I love you all in a friendly way.

[Felixaar]

I love you all in a friendly way.

That's all? But... GAH!

In more serious news though, I would have commented on it but I didn't really know what to say. It's very poetic but... I'm just lost for words. I don't dare say anthing lest I appear (even more) like a fool.

Oh, and I too had a nice Valentine's Day :smallsmile:

[Klose_the_Sith]

Klose your love life is like one of my homemade sweaters - namely, it's tangle of wool that once swallowed my cat. A few questions - the girl who is totally oblivious, ever tried making her unoblivious? and the cute girl who you think is interested, why can't you try anything with her? Sorry for the recent end of happiness, but, hey, such things happen mate. *hugs* dun worry. There's plenty o' girls out there (they actually putnumber us. Scary, innit?) and so long as you leave at least one for me, I'm sure you can find a good'un... 'ventually.

I tried, but she remained completely oblivious. Sigh. As for interested girl, it's a bit embarrassing, but she looks just like an ex (to me anyway) who wound up doing some things that ... well, they messed me up.

It's so not fair to this girl that I feel incredibly bad about it, and yet can't change my current mental block. Maybe I should just turn gay, guys seem a bit simpler (blatant irony).

Yeah, I know, but it was never really more then an extended fling. Even if I didn't really get flung, you get the idea.

I'm sure they outnumber us, my life atm seems to be FULL of the damn things!

[averagejoe]

I don't know why no one else commented.

The bit about smoking intimidated me. People who smoke are much cooler than I am. Because smoking makes you cool.

Actually, I try not to comment on stuff like this. Expressing oneself in such a way is something that has always eluded me, and I can never think of any way to respond that isn't completely cold and analytical. Which seems an inappropriate response to me.

Oh, and smoking doesn't actually make you cool. And even if it does, it's pretty gross. You'll regret having such a gross habit that's tough to quit. Oh, yes.

[Midnight Son]

Valentine's was good(for the first time in years). Even crashing the car on the way to dinner was more of an adventure than a deterrent. No one was hurt and only superficial car damage. The gifts were sweet and romantic. Midnight Son is happy.

[Felixaar]

Well, at least it wasn't as bad as the other time you crashed your car :smalleek: but I'd like to point out you still haven't actually told us anything about your lady friend! We need gossip!

Klose heh, yeah. Well mate, you're in a frustrating situation - you didn't need me to tell you that - and there's not very much you can do about it. There'd be no point pursuing the look a like girl only to be always messed up about her, but it could be worth a try actually just asking the first girl out, if you feel like it?

Joe, agreed.

[VeisuItaTyhjyys]

skywalker: Thank you very much. And for the record, t's Vay-soo Ih-tah (or ee-tah) tih-yiss, which (probably poor, I only lived there for about six months) Finnish for "songs of emptiness." It was how I described the kind of music and poetry I liked to a friend, there, and thought it had a nice ring to it when I said it.

felixaar: Kindness, which seems to be mostly what you give, never looks foolish. As for not knowing what to say, it's rather the story of most everyone's life, I would imagine.

averagejoe: There is nothing wrong with being cold and analytical. As for smoking and regret, sentimentality is all that keeps me smoking them. I don't regret that at all. I'll give up white teeth and some time to remember what a kiss from long ago tasted like.

[skywalker]

Oh, and smoking doesn't actually make you cool. And even if it does, it's pretty gross. You'll regret having such a gross habit that's tough to quit. Oh, yes.

Smoking does make you cool(er).

It's just a question of whether you actually want to be cool, and are willing to give up what you do to have that coolness.

Not personally something I'm interested in, I'm just saying.

[snoopy13a]

..
I, personally, have been turned against online relationships simply because I've grown sick of the whole 'waiting' thing - every confirmed i-like-you-you-like-me thing I've ever been in has been "we'll be together in a few months/years" and just run out of passion a long time before then.



I've never even tried to start an online relationship. What I don't want to happen is to make an emotional connection with someone only to find out later that she isn't attractive enough for me (or vice versa). With regular dating, I can make the "attractive enough" judgment before I get to know the person.

[Klose_the_Sith]

Klose heh, yeah. Well mate, you're in a frustrating situation - you didn't need me to tell you that - and there's not very much you can do about it. There'd be no point pursuing the look a like girl only to be always messed up about her, but it could be worth a try actually just asking the first girl out, if you feel like it?

She doesn't feel the same way about me, and that's already been clearly established (somehow she still doesn't suspect that I like her >.>).

I think there's another girl who was interested in me up until this afternoon.

Klose is not particularly dashing.

[Coidzor]

She doesn't feel the same way about me, and that's already been clearly established (somehow she still doesn't suspect that I like her >.>).

lies, damn lies, and statistics.


I think there's another girl who was interested in me up until this afternoon.

Klose is not particularly dashing.

So what did you do to scare the new girl off?

Have you spent any real length of time around the girl? Or is it just the short bursts of the look-alikeness that get you? Because if you haven't really spent much time with her, you might just get desensitized and start to notice the real differences and later be able to laugh about it.

[Klose_the_Sith]

So what did you do to scare the new girl off?

Actually, strictly speaking I was the one scared off, and I am NOT GOING BACK THERE.


Have you spent any real length of time around the girl? Or is it just the short bursts of the look-alikeness that get you? Because if you haven't really spent much time with her, you might just get desensitized and start to notice the real differences and later be able to laugh about it.

Not much, and we had a better conversation today then previous ones that we've had. I'm just worried that in the end it will be too big a mental block.

[Coidzor]

Actually, strictly speaking I was the one scared off, and I am NOT GOING BACK THERE.

That's... pretty bad then. Wow. She was really that creepy? @_@ Holy Crap!


Not much, and we had a better conversation today then previous ones that we've had. I'm just worried that in the end it will be too big a mental block.

mmm... probably for the best to try to break it though. Since you don't want yourself having a freak flashback during some kind of dicey situation where you don't wanna have a flashback sequence.

[Klose_the_Sith]

That's... pretty bad then. Wow. She was really that creepy? @_@ Holy Crap!

Her friends, actually.

I was so terrified I forgot that I was waiting for a bus, watched said bus go past and then wound up walking home in my uncomfortable boots :smallredface:


mmm... probably for the best to try to break it though. Since you don't want yourself having a freak flashback during some kind of dicey situation where you don't wanna have a flashback sequence.

Yeah, I know. Problem is it's a catch 22, because if I knew her better then we could probably talk and joke about it, but I can't get to know her better because of it.

[Coidzor]

Her friends, actually.

I was so terrified I forgot that I was waiting for a bus, watched said bus go past and then wound up walking home in my uncomfortable boots :smallredface:

...Terrified?... A grown male adult terrified by a girl's friends? That's... pretty bad. I'm sorry, man.


Yeah, I know. Problem is it's a catch 22, because if I knew her better then we could probably talk and joke about it, but I can't get to know her better because of it.

Seems like you have some sort of contact that you come into with her often enough that it's a factor weighing on your mind from time to time though. Why's that?

[Klose_the_Sith]

...Terrified?... A grown male adult terrified by a girl's friends? That's... pretty bad. I'm sorry, man.

I'm not fully grown yet!

(Or ... am ... I?)

Either way, I defy you to have not been scared by these people who showed up in a few seconds and practically turned this very small place (Bus Shelter) into a shouting, swearing contest.


Seems like you have some sort of contact that you come into with her often enough that it's a factor weighing on your mind from time to time though. Why's that?

She sits next to me in Maths?

[xPANCAKEx]

Either way, I defy you to have not been scared by these people who showed up in a few seconds and practically turned this very small place (Bus Shelter) into a shouting, swearing contest.


aaaaah, sounds like a night out with me and my friends (the shouting/swearing/loud part)

but in all seriousness klose, the fact that she looks TOO much like an ex is completely understandable as a turn off. It shouldn't stop you talking to her in general (if it does then thats a different kettle of fish - but one that you sound like you're handling fine), but if shes interested, and you're not, and she asks you why - saying "im sorry, but you just look a bit too much like an ex girlfriend for me to be comfortable with it" is ok.

Of course she might not take it ok - but would you really want to go out with a girl who can't handle a perfectly polite let down anyway?

Just because someone likes you, you are under no obligation to like them back

[Starshade]

On contact during games: the boyfriend and I generally hook arms while gaming together. :smallsmile:

On conversation: find a topic of mutual interest that doesn't have to do with her obligations (like school).

That said, maybe she just isn't much of a conversationalist? :\ I'm bad with the whole what to talk about thing since I'm one of those people who spontaneously make friends but never consciously try. >>

Pancake, have fun. :smallsmile: Being young is fun. Even though I didn't date around, I definitely dated a guy in between my two serious relationships that was more "He's attractive, we have similar interests, and neither of us wants anything serious- awesome." Granted, he ended up being more eye candy than substence which is probably the main reason we fell out of contact, but...hey, it was fun (and nothing beyond PG-13 stuff).

That PG-13 comment made me think back when i was in my early teens, for some reason, from i was about 10 or so, i took relationships way too seriously, looking for some deeper, meaningfull relationship, just hanging out with someone seemed to be not interesting, even, if they wanted that, i just shied away, since i wanted some deeper mental/spiritual relationship than that. The boys' immature way of showing how they was interested in girls at 10-13 was, plain, horrible. It disgusted me.
The girls was good looking, yes. That didnt mean, i was thereby interested, since, i was not, in having any PG-13 type of relationship. I didnt understand how people, could just be in a relationship, without genuinely love or feel something.

Its finally dawned on me in the later years, i should have just "jumped into it" and tried, it just seemed to be quite a few more i'd probably have liked better as friends than having a relationship with. In most cases, i just walked past those others would have drooled all over for a chance to get a date with. :smallannoyed:



One of the most interesting people I ever dated was a lot like this. Our first date was hell on chatty ol' me. I really didn't know what to do, or what to make of it. She had a pretty bad case of Asperger's Syndrome. It took a long, long time to draw her out of her shell, but it really was worth it.

That's one possibility... There are others. :smallconfused:

Anyway, I recommend a couple large helpings of patience, gentleness, and persistence.

People with Aspergers might retreat into a shell, so to say, yes. Only case i personally retreat into a shell and turn unsocial, is if i end up spending time with people i dont *get* at all.
I personally, could still be chatty without being too open, so i personally, at least isnt turning too non chatty if i'm a bit unshure or too cautious, not in smaller groups at least. In bigger, i just sit and say, absolutely nothing, and mostly look on the others chat. -_-

Being, say, a shy trekkie, dont make anyone an Aspie. Its just a stereotypical idea ppl have, of ppl who do same mistakes as, say, Cmd Data, sitting and watching Startrek fascinated by the series.

Also related to this:
- I only appear horribly geeky, if i'm retreating "into the shell", and dont know the person i talk to. If i open up, i talk more freely, and about many things. Most horrible, is it if i feel the person, is a bit booring, and only got 1 thing in common with me; then id say "No" to a date automatically, anyway.
- Some people, isnt having any "issue" at all, even if they sit and say, absolutely nothing. They just is extremely shy. A Girl i know is like that, too shy to speak much at all. If someone is shy,getting to know them can take a while, but, they still is the same person as before, just daring to talk more to you. You cannot alter the wery basic personality of a person, just try to help them open themself a bit, and, see what happen.

Klose the Sith:
Dont feel bad, ive sometime had same experience, and i am even a Martial Artist, i am both grown up, and quite good at defending myself if needed, still... It dont appear i realize, i got nothing to fear from some people. I dont even bother "going out" to public places serving alcohol much, or almost ever, since i dont see the point if the drinking make ppl more prone to fights.
Im not particularly brave, dislike taking risks, and run off if i see bawdy gangs of loud guys, or girls for that matter.
MA is, for me, mostly some way to get some exersize. I dont turn braver of it anyway.

[averagejoe]

Guys: the smoking comments might have been a little tongue in cheek.

[Coidzor]

So Coraline was a good movie. Only got to see the 2d version rather than the 3d, but eh. She was the one who wanted to catch that showtime at that price. For some reason. I was the one paying anyway. :smallconfused:

Not quite sure how one goes about initiating touching during a movie, so I pretty much left it at... none unless she wants to hold hands or something after she jerked rather suddenly away from me when my foot accidentally brushed hers when I shook it due to a cramp.

Hmm. I appear to be moving onto the, dangit, I miss being held stage of whatever process I started going through in January.

Am I really now just processing that I'm through with my ex, even though we broke up in October? That seems a tad ridiculous. I'm trying to remember what it was like when I was starting to date again after a break up, but it's been awhile... So it's a bit hazy

hmm... but... yeah, I think I did go sort of weird when I started dating again after a break up, a sort of weird melancholy at being reminded of what I don't have and want to have again sort of thing. Oddly enough it's mostly weird things like being held and cuddling as opposed to more visceral sorts of pleasures.

How weird is that? I'm thinking pretty weird.

[Felixaar]

I've never even tried to start an online relationship. What I don't want to happen is to make an emotional connection with someone only to find out later that she isn't attractive enough for me (or vice versa). With regular dating, I can make the "attractive enough" judgment before I get to know the person.

I've always found people more or less attractive based on the calibur of their personalities rather than their physical looks, but then, I'm very strange.

Of course, I occasionally get bloody lucky and find a girl who's both a fantastic person and drop dead gorgeous. O'course, I always fail at step 2, having them like me.


Klose is not particularly dashing.

Neither is Felix. I trip over a lot.

Personally Klose, I think you should try to forget about girls for a while and just enjoy being single - you're not in a good place for any love affairs right now and it all seems so sordid. I'd rest back and wait till something better comes along... believe me, being single is pretty fun :smallsmile:


felixaar: Kindness, which seems to be mostly what you give, never looks foolish. As for not knowing what to say, it's rather the story of most everyone's life, I would imagine.

Heh. Thankyou :smallredface: It's so refreshing to talk to a person who does not yet understand my potential for foolishness :smallwink:


Not quite sure how one goes about initiating touching during a movie, so I pretty much left it at... none unless she wants to hold hands or something after she jerked rather suddenly away from me when my foot accidentally brushed hers when I shook it due to a cramp.

What I wouldn't give for your love skills :smallwink: I kid.

Coid, I don't think I can tell you anything you don't already know - this too shall pass, and sooner or later things will improve. I might reccomend the same advice I gave to Klose.

[Serpentine]

Aright, bit o' Honesty for Serpentine time: To what extent am I justified in being... some combination of annoyed, frustrated, insulted and peeved, that both ex and his girlfriend, my former friend, have started working at the front desk of my work?
Some possible pertinent information:
1. They both know I work there, and have been for a year already.
2. They are both working at the front desk. This means that I have to see them (or more likely, one one day and the other the next) every time I go in, and every time I leave.
3. They're working in IT. That means that any time I need computer help, there is a good chance I'll have to speak to one of them.
4. She mentioned to my beau that they'd gotten jobs at the uni (though she didn't say what, or where), in the context of "We're just so awesome at writing resumes, that we both got the first job we applied for!" That makes my hoped-for explanation, that they're just desperate for work and wouldn't have applied for that job if they had another choice, less likely, and more likely that it's a case of stupidity and/or selfishness.
5. They know I still can't handle being around them or even really seeing them. I know that she, at least, also finds it extremely uncomfortable having to even so much as momentarily make eye contact. They know, or at least could guess, that it would distress, discomfort or even outright upset me. I can't think that it would be especially comfortable or pleasant for them, either.

Now, I know I obviously have no right to dictate where they do or do not work - oh boy does he know his rights. I don't think that makes it any less rude, and surely they realise that it's just begging for trouble.
Really, I'm pretty over it at the moment. I've made it clear, from a distance, that I'm decidedly unimpressed with their appointment, and now I intend to just ignore them. I'm still bemused and irked by their decision, though.

Annnnnnd... over it :smallbiggrin: 'least as far as here is concerned.

...
Nah, I got no advice for anyone this time. I'm having trouble with a friend of mine, but I don't know where to start articulating, much less expect to be able to get anything useful. Ah well.

[Berserk Monk]

So my love life may or may not have just received a steroid shot to the arm:

Question: If a girl calls you "sir" what does that mean? Oh and the context is we're both college freshman taking the same art class. It's probably nothing, but I thought it was an odd choice of words to use.

In other news, I got an odd text the other day. Someone (not sure about gender, assuming girl based on message) text me out of the blue. No idea who it is. To quote the message, it said:

"hii :P I got ur numbr off a friend, I bet you won't guess who I am! LOL I'm so shy.. u can find me online, my page is ---*"

I tried to text them back but there was no return number. Weird.

*For obvious privacy reasons, I not giving out the web page.

[Felixaar]

Serp, I'd say you entirely within your rights to feel how ever you want to feel - unfortunately other than send them bad vibes, theres not much you can do unless one or both of them actually starts to harass you. Stay the course and continue to ignore them as best you can - unfortunately theres not much else you can do.

BM, I don't pretend to understand women... but I try. And I personally would have to say that a girl calling you sir, to me, doesn't seem to bely any romantic feelings - rather, it could be the other way around, since such a formal term might be a sign of distance. It really depends on how she said it and in what context. As for the text message... do you have any friends around with your phone number? And did you check out the web page? Do you recognise it? Do you think you could be interested in someone with such poor text speech? Also, not to bring you down, but since there was no return message, are you absolutely certain it's not phone spam that will download a virus to your computer?

[Player_Zero]

Also, not to bring you down, but since there was no return message, are you absolutely certain it's not phone spam that will download a virus to your computer?

This.

If the URL isn't a facebook or a similar reputable page then it's a scam.

[snoopy13a]

Question: If a girl calls you "sir" what does that mean? Oh and the context is we're both college freshman taking the same art class. It's probably nothing, but I thought it was an odd choice of words to use.

In other news, I got an odd text the other day. Someone (not sure about gender, assuming girl based on message) text me out of the blue. No idea who it is. To quote the message, it said:

"hii :P I got ur numbr off a friend, I bet you won't guess who I am! LOL I'm so shy.. u can find me online, my page is ---*"

I tried to text them back but there was no return number. Weird.

*For obvious privacy reasons, I not giving out the web page.

The girl is Marcie from Peanuts :smallsmile:

The text is probably spam for some sex talk site. I get e-mails all the time with text like:

"i saw ur profile on facebook and ur so hot. let's get 2gether at www.somewebsite.com"

Of course, I don't have a facebook site :smalltongue:

[Felixaar]

I get the same sort of emails, generally telling me that country girls like several things that make me go :smallyuk:

[Klose_the_Sith]

Neither is Felix. I trip over a lot.

Personally Klose, I think you should try to forget about girls for a while and just enjoy being single - you're not in a good place for any love affairs right now and it all seems so sordid. I'd rest back and wait till something better comes along... believe me, being single is pretty fun :smallsmile:

Ah, but the second that I stop trying my life loses this delightful sitcommish element. I'm literally stuck between a rock and a hard place. Wait, no, it's still metaphorical.

SOMEUPDATES:

Had entire conversations with girl who sits next to me in maths. We would appear to be getting on really well, but there's still a bit of skull****ery about her.

Girl who freaked me out hung out with me and my friends today, and it was surprisingly non-awkward. Good times. She still scares the **** out of me, but don't tell her that, especially seeing as how eager she was to hug me.

[Felixaar]

Oh, right. I know that feeling :smallsmile: Well, do it the way you want to I suppose.

[JeminiZero]

@Serp: A wise man once said: Never attribute to malice, what can be sufficiently explained by stupidity.

I'm pretty certain they are not doing this to purposely antagonize you. They may or may not even know how much pain they are causing you.

But if they do, they either just don't care, or they have more important things to worry about than further ticking off former friend whom they have already offended. (Like having a job/career in the company of their dreams).

In any case, the best retort to this, is usually to show that you don't care that much and have moved on.



"hii :P I got ur numbr off a friend, I bet you won't guess who I am! LOL I'm so shy.. u can find me online, my page is ---*"

I tried to text them back but there was no return number. Weird.

*For obvious privacy reasons, I not giving out the web page.


As PlayerZero mentioned, look at whether the site is reputable. And don't trust it simply because "myspace" of "facebook" is somewhere in the title. Lots of scammers can easily add a popular site's name into the address. E.g. myspace.spammers.com is NOT the same as www.myspace.com.

If you still need help deciphering it, you can post the main url without the specific page. E.g. "http://www.giantitp.com/forums/forumdisplay.php?f=30" would have the main url of "http://www.giantitp.com/". This lets us judge (part of) the address without breaching privacy

[Serpentine]

@Serp: A wise man once said: Never attribute to malice, what can be sufficiently explained by stupidity.Heheh, I live by that quote. Trouble is, sometimes things can't be sufficiently explained by stupidity... And somehow I doubt that working IT in a university library is the job/career of the dreams of a guy with a Bachelor of Communications and doing a Diploma of Education, or a girl with a Bachelor of Arts in Linguistics. But yeah, I know. It's just, you know, they insisted that they gave a flying expletive about me, and this is just yet another action that indicates quite the opposite.

[xPANCAKEx]

Serp - perhaps they have no consideration for your feelings.

If they arn't your friends anymore, then its understandable that they show you no consideration. If you're not someones friend its a bit silly to waste time worrying about their feelings

If they did it to get at you, its a bit pathetic

Either way - making a big deal out of it, no matter how much it currently pains you, is counter productive. It either draws attention to something which isn't an issue, OR, plays into their hands... neither of which is desirable. Obviously you've still not gotten over the issue, and thats fair enough, but allowing yourself to get drawn into it won't help you in the long term

tough it out, act professional, and leave it at that - you'll feel MUCH better about yourself in the long term for it

[paddyfool]

I have a problem in a nascent relationship: I'm sort of with someone really smart, and really fun, and we enjoy spending time together a great deal... but on the other hand, I'm a long way from head-over-heels for reasons I can't identify. And I've just realised that I have no exit strategy. Particularly as I've just been moved into the same office as her at our Uni.

It would be unimaginably awkward to end this, no matter how I do it. I see no way to broach a conversation about how I really feel about her - it goes well beyond what we've talked about in terms of avoiding awkwardness with the new office arrangements. I'm pretty sure she doesn't want to be just a friend-with-benefits (as a friend, I'm pretty sure I wouldn't want that for her anyway); and the longer this goes on, the worse it'll be if/when it does come crashing down.

OK, some details. We're both PhD students, she's Canadian, I'm British, I'm 28 and she's 36, we've known each other four months and been going out for one. I've never really been beyond this stage in a relationship before; the last time I started one (when I was 24) I ended it soon after since I was going to work in Uganda for two years (which turned into three). The previous one (also when I was 24) was ended soon after it started by the other party partly because she was going back to the States from London... and prior to that, there just wasn't very much happening in this way at all.

Right now, I see only two options that are remotely decent. Should I wait, and give us a chance, and just see how things go? Or should we talk right away, and work out how we feel about this? Your thoughts on my choices would be greatly appreciated.

[xPANCAKEx]

Paddy - sometimes it takes a while for things to kick in... but as long as you keep it casual for the time being, and if the subject is broached, be honest about your feelings, at least to a point. As long as you tell her you don't want to rush further into the relationship, and just want to take things easy, then that will stop any awkwardness of being lead on... but i think giving it a fair chance is ok if you're honest with her about your feelings

if you don't mind my asking, what is it about her, or your situation that makes it unexciting?

RE: office awkwardness after ending things. As long as you act like a professional in the office, you'll be fine. Show her some consideration, by all means, but if you need to discuss something work related with her, then get on with it. If you act timid around her wondering how things will be then she may start asking herself "hes acting like there is a problem - is there a problem?". Sure you may not be best office buddies, but you can still certainly be great colleagues - as long as you end things in a respectful manner.

If however it does become an issue and affects your work, then ask the dean to relocate you if possible

[snoopy13a]

I have a problem in a nascent relationship: I'm sort of with someone really smart, and really fun, and we enjoy spending time together a great deal... but on the other hand, I'm a long way from head-over-heels for reasons I can't identify. And I've just realised that I have no exit strategy. Particularly as I've just been moved into the same office as her at our Uni.

It would be unimaginably awkward to end this, no matter how I do it. I see no way to broach a conversation about how I really feel about her - it goes well beyond what we've talked about in terms of avoiding awkwardness with the new office arrangements. I'm pretty sure she doesn't want to be just a friend-with-benefits (as a friend, I'm pretty sure I wouldn't want that for her anyway); and the longer this goes on, the worse it'll be if/when it does come crashing down.

OK, some details. We're both PhD students, she's Canadian, I'm British, I'm 28 and she's 36, we've known each other four months and been going out for one. I've never really been beyond this stage in a relationship before; the last time I started one (when I was 24) I ended it soon after since I was going to work in Uganda for two years (which turned into three). The previous one (also when I was 24) was ended soon after it started by the other party partly because she was going back to the States from London... and prior to that, there just wasn't very much happening in this way at all.

Right now, I see only two options that are remotely decent. Should I wait, and give us a chance, and just see how things go? Or should we talk right away, and work out how we feel about this? Your thoughts on my choices would be greatly appreciated.

I'd play it by ear for a little. Right now, you seem to not know whether or not you think she is right for a long term relationship. Waiting a little bit to make this decision is alright.

However, she is 36, which means her biological clock is ticking. You do owe it to her to make a decision fairly soon. Take a month or so to reflect whether or not she is right for you and then make a decision.

[Coidzor]

Should I be worried at the vehemence with which my friends are suggesting I burn one of my ex's shirts that I just found where it had gotten lost in between my bed and the wall?

Considering that we're not openly trying to kill one another or anything.

v: Oh no, we're still talking. But I can't give it back since I don't wanna mess with her parents while she's in china, studying abroad.

[skywalker]

Should I be worried at the vehemence with which my friends are suggesting I burn one of my ex's shirts that I just found where it had gotten lost in between my bed and the wall?

Considering that we're not openly trying to kill one another or anything.

Yes.

That sort of thing isn't healthy.

Burn wood, nothing else.

I mean, you probably don't want a reminder of her around... Have you considered giving it back to her? If you aren't speaking/don't have a mutual friend/can't bear to have a reminder of her around... I suggest giving it to goodwill. That way, it can suit someone else. Awfully wasteful to burn it. Not as bad as burning books, but pretty close, in my opinion.

[paddyfool]

if you don't mind my asking, what is it about her, or your situation that makes it unexciting?


Wish I knew. It's not altogether a bad thing - I have a small obsessive streak that comes out when I really am head-over-heels about someone. Thank you for your advice - you make a lot of sense.

@Snoopy,

Yeah, I had considered the biological clock thing, and the related matter that if she wants to have kids she's right up against the deadline now. It's a conversation that maybe we'll have should things get more serious, and that I'm obviously not looking forward to.

[xPANCAKEx]

re: the whole biological clock thing...

not every woman WANTS children, and its pretty presumptuous to make any assumptions. So until she brings that up - or makes her views on the matter clear - it should not enter into your consideration

[Syka]

Paddy, it's only been a month. Some relationships that work really well don't have the head over heels thing, some start off slower and you realize "Hey, I really really like this person". Maybe if you normally have the head over heels obsessive streaks, perhaps this is a healthier start than before.

As for the biological clock, I'm betting that if she's a PhD student, 36, and not pressuring a serious relationship by now that it's muted or non-existent. As Pancake said, not all women have or listen to their's. I wholeheartedly second that.

Coid, yeah...I'd be worried if friends were doing that, especially if there is a lack of malice between you and the ex. Just give the shirt back or give it to Goodwill or something if there is no way to contact her.

[Dragonrider]

OK, Syk, this has been nagging at me for a while now - assuming "Oz" is a pseudonym, did you call him after Oz from BtvS on purpose? :smallbiggrin:

...Yeah. That's my big, serious relationship question. :smalltongue:

[Syka]

Actually, no. :smallsmile: I don't watch Buffy, actually.

I have another friend (who I've known longer) with the same name as him, so before we began dating my sister dubbed him the Other Z, or OZ for short (it just got confusing otherwise). The nickname just kinda...stuck. I actually call him that more in real life than his true name.

His old college friends who knew him by a different nickname or his real name actually like Oz a heck of a lot better, and it's approved by him, so it works. :smallsmile:

[Dragonrider]

Actually, no. :smallsmile: I don't watch Buffy, actually.


I see. :smallsmile: I only asked because Oz is one of my favorite characters from Buffy. (I don't like Buffy herself all that much....)

[skywalker]

v: Oh no, we're still talking. But I can't give it back since I don't wanna mess with her parents while she's in china, studying abroad.

Well... You could mail it?

If that's too expensive... Ask her what she wants you to do with it?

And, no offense at all, but judging from what you've said about your friends in this thread in the past... your friends are weird.

[Felixaar]

Coid, don't go giving the shirt to goodwill - I almost lost a jacket to goodwill once and it was the most horrifying day of my life (it was a good jacket). Save it for her until an appropriate time to give it back.

Pad, I'd say don't worry about it just yet. Don't say things you don't mean or make actions that suggest things you don't mean, but there's no need to cast doubt. Things may work out, or the may not - so long as she doesn't think she's been guaranteed anyting she hasn't, then it's all okay.

[averagejoe]

Recent events have made it clear to me that I'm more bothered by this whole affair than I've been letting myself believe. Which I find somewhat bothersome, for many reasons, not the least of which is the fact that, prior to now, I've been quite successful at being happy in spite of whatever external stimuli present themselves. Or, at least, I've been able to control the external stimuli to the point where I can make myself happy. I dunno. Point is it worked. Recently I've been having trouble just taking an interest in my surroundings.

I mean, this is completely stupid, and I know it's completely stupid. Not only is this stupid, but it's completely contrary to how I normally react to things. I'm used to either just making jokes or behaving in an ultra-rational manner in times of stress. I should be way past the point where I feel the need to whine incessantly about anything. The only reasonable conclusion I can come to is that part of me wants to feel like this.

It wouldn't be so bad, maybe, if I was able to open up to people more easily. I was talking with a buddy the other night, one of my oldest friends, and the only reason I was even able to tell him about this is that he related a similar problem to me. And even then I couldn't say anything beyond relating the facts without any emotional input. I mean, heck, the only reason I even started posting here was because I forgot that Felix posts here, and the first time he responded to something I wrote I freaked the heck out. I've since gotten used to the idea, but having someone I know find out things about me is something I have extreme difficulty with.

I mean, I do have one or two confidants, but I try not to bring up this subject a lot, just because it's all I really want to talk about, and I don't want to irritate them by just talking about one thing.

Part of me wants to just forget about this, let it fade. I mean, I could; it wasn't just a passing thought when I speculated that part of me wants to feel like this. I think part of it is that it's been so long since I've seen her that this is the only thing I currently can feel, and it's better than nothing. Some days it's hard to remember. So I could just forget. It would be much less troublesome. Then again, maybe a little mental distress is good for me. It's been so long since mental distress really challenged me that I might have been getting complacent. Anyways, I don't start things to quit them. So forgetting isn't even an option. It never was.

Well, I needed that. Thanks for bearing through.

[Felixaar]

Joe, I hope you know and feel that you can trust me with such things - after all, I'm as much an impartial and zipper-mouthed observor as anyone.

Have you any way of contacting the girl? Because I think it's really time to go double or nothing and roll the dice on this one, so that you can move on form there.

[averagejoe]

Joe, I hope you know and feel that you can trust me with such things - after all, I'm as much an impartial and zipper-mouthed observor as anyone.

Have you any way of contacting the girl? Because I think it's really time to go double or nothing and roll the dice on this one, so that you can move on form there.

No, it isn't that I think you'll tell anyone, and I don't think I'd even care very much if you did. It's not you; as I said, I have this problem with my oldest and most trusted friends. The only person I really feel comfortable telling things to is this one girl I know, and that's largely because a lot of our relationship early on consisted of her telling me deep personal secrets about herself while she was going through a bad breakup and needed a neutral party to talk to (at least, from my point of view they were deep and personal), so there's probably a certain level of familiarity there, or something. I just have trouble opening up to people, for whatever reason.

Double-or-nothing is pretty much my plan, I just need time to implement it as she is currently across the country. So I'm just twiddling my thumbs until then. I think she'll be back in about a week, though, so I'll act then.

Edit: To be clear, I'm more concerned that my emotional state is what it is at the moment. Not having a plan would be very un-me. :smallcool:

[Zarrexaij]

How do you get someone to understand they have you on a too short of a leash, so to speak, and it's alienating you, and causing a lot of psychological and emotional harm?

[Player_Zero]

How do you get someone to understand they have you on a too short of a leash, so to speak, and it's alienating you, and causing a lot of psychological and emotional harm?

Telling them is a good start.

Ya' know, conversing. Speech. Communication.

[Zarrexaij]

Telling them is a good start.

Ya' know, conversing. Speech. Communication.I've tried that, they don't seem to get it.

"BUT I CAN'T TRUST YOU WAAAAAAAAAAAAHMBULANCE."

Despite the fact I've been nothing but honest and done absolutely nothing to make them think they can't trust me... :smallsigh:

[xPANCAKEx]

How do you get someone to understand they have you on a too short of a leash, so to speak, and it's alienating you, and causing a lot of psychological and emotional harm?

a bit more detail of the situation would help me give better advice... but

tell them how what they're doing is affecting you. Use as simple a laungauge as possible - over explaining things/being too verbose rather than just stating a simple "you're too controlling and its upsetting" or something equally similar and blunt may allow them to make excuses to themselves to continue their behavior, but depending on whats going on, it may well require a bit more delecate wording. Control issues usually boil down to trust

[THAC0]

a bit more detail of the situation would help me give better advice... but

tell them how what they're doing is affecting you. Use as simple a laungauge as possible - over explaining things/being too verbose rather than just stating a simple "you're too controlling and its upsetting" or something equally similar and blunt may allow them to make excuses to themselves to continue their behavior, but depending on whats going on, it may well require a bit more delecate wording. Control issues usually boil down to trust

Yes, and remember to use "I" wording instead of "You" wording.

"I feel XYZ" instead of "You're doing XYZ." Makes a big difference.

[Phaedra]

I've tried that, they don't seem to get it.

"BUT I CAN'T TRUST YOU WAAAAAAAAAAAAHMBULANCE."

Despite the fact I've been nothing but honest and done absolutely nothing to make them think they can't trust me... :smallsigh:

Have they said why they feel they can't trust you? P_Z is right - communication is key. If you know why they have trust issues then you can find a way to deal with this. Set out precisely what they are doing that bothers you, make sure they understand why it bothers you and ask why they act that way and what you could do to help them feel more secure. As others have said, try to word it so you don't sound accusational or as if all the problems in the relationship are their fault - it just makes people defensive.

If you've discussed it in detail with them and they won't move from their position, and you can't do anything more than you've done, than sadly it may be time to end it.

[Zarrexaij]

tell them how what they're doing is affecting you.I've done this. The person has a ferric cranium, I swear.

The counter is always the same: that I'm not to be trusted because I've done a few rotten things four or so years ago that have made them completely distrust me even though I'm tried hard to regain they're trust. They see everything I do as a breech of their trust and something to watch carefully over, as if I'm some dangerous criminal. If I go alone with a friend (or a really particular male friend that I admitted I was very attracted to), this person goes nuts and is angry with my for a day, and lectures me over the fact that I ABSOLUTE CANNOT be trusted because I wanted to spend ONE ****ING HOUR with one of my friends without asking them. I have to do EVERYTHING with their approval, and it is driving me insane.

[xPANCAKEx]

Yes, and remember to use "I" wording instead of "You" wording.

"I feel XYZ" instead of "You're doing XYZ." Makes a big difference.

i'd disagree - if you're significant other is doing something THAT upsetting then as adults you should be able to call them on it, and hold them accountable to their own actions

we're each responsible for how we act on our own feelings. If they choose to act on their insecurities by trying to control you rather than address their issues, its not going to be a healthy situation

[Pyrian]

How do you get someone to understand they have you on a too short of a leash, so to speak, and it's alienating you, and causing a lot of psychological and emotional harm?Just like that, I suppose.

I've seen similar issues far too often, and the common denominator seems to be that the other person sees the situation COMPLETELY differently - so much so, that it's very hard to bridge the gap in expectations. People really do get their ideas of how relationships are "supposed" to work more or less randomly, and are remarkably loathe to adjust preconceptions for the individual partner; it's really very sad, IMO.

Anyway, a discussion of expectations might be a good place to start. Ask them (within context) how they expect you to behave, how they expect to behave, and then, importantly, how they expect you to think and feel about their behavior. Then, discuss the vice-versa; how you expect to act, how you expect to be treated, how you expect to feel about it. Finally, let loose with how you actually think and feel about their treatment of you.

With everything in the open, maybe you can come to a new understanding.

Don't get me wrong - this sort of thing is extremely difficult to deal with and I usually see it tear relationships to shreds. So, don't be surprised if the conversations are very frustrating, or if there is a lot of backsliding afterwards. But you have to keep at it - being treated with decency is not optional!

Good luck!

[xPANCAKEx]

I've done this. The person has a ferric cranium, I swear.

The counter is always the same: that I'm not to be trusted because I've done a few rotten things four or so years ago that have made them completely distrust me even though I'm tried hard to regain they're trust. They see everything I do as a breech of their trust and something to watch carefully over, as if I'm some dangerous criminal. If I go alone with a friend (or a really particular male friend that I admitted I was very attracted to), this person goes nuts and is angry with my for a day, and lectures me over the fact that I ABSOLUTE CANNOT be trusted because I wanted to spend ONE ****ING HOUR with one of my friends without asking them. I have to do EVERYTHING with their approval, and it is driving me insane.

If its gone on for that long then things may have run their course.

Appologising for past misdeeds certainly goes a long way - but if they've not accepted the apology, acknowledged your efforts to make up for it, and regained some trust in the last 4 years, then you have to ask yourselves as a couple if they will ever trust you again, and what if anything can be done to make that happen

If they don't want to let go of they pain the may still be carrying, or want to trust you again (without making you jump through hoops to obtain it) then you have to ask if they want to continue the relationship.

Trust is in part based on respect - and if they can't respect your space or privacy, then how can they hope to continue things in any sort of healthy fashion where they don't have to watch over you every 10 minutes


being treated with decency is not optional!

couldn't have put it better myself... so i'll quote it instead

[Player_Zero]

So you're asking how to tell someone something without talking to them? :smallconfused:

If talking doesn't work there's not much other option in way of communication. You could write a passive aggressive note or something equally stupid, but really just talking and making sure you're understood is the only way to go about it.

It doesn't seem like they're going to be readily able to trust you. This would seem to indicate that they are somewhat insecure in the present situation. If it isn't justified that they can't trust you then you could attempt trying to make this apparent to them. Admittedly, hanging around alone with people you say you are very attracted to probably isn't the best course of action in my opinion.


P_Z is right

Oooo. Say it again.

[Pyrian]

Dangit, take a while writing, have some issues getting it to post, and find a whole conversation has occurred in the meantime.

Okay, it actually sounds like communication is NOT the problem, here. He knows you don't like it, and he cares more about satisfying his own distrust than about making you happy. (Read that sentence again, it's important.)

I doubt you can "force" him to change his behavior through normal conversation. You might be able to force an attitude change via ultimatum, but that could just as easily result in a "passive-aggressive" response of some type, at best. He'll likely take it as evidence that you are or want to cheat on him! I've even seen people take such an action as an excuse to cheat themselves...

Another possibility is to simply refuse to satisfy him. Do as you will. When he throws a fit, tell him it's his own insecure fault and you refuse to indulge him any more.

I guess the bottom line is that you have to decide what you're going to do, because I think he's made it clear that his mind is made up.