newbDM
2009-01-28, 04:28 AM
[3.5]Replacing the abyss/hades/nine hells with a Disgaea-like netherworld? Perhaps working it into an adventure?
This idea has been floating around in my head since before I even tried my hand at DMing, and now I finally want to ask what you all think about this. Please be as honest and critical as you please.
I am not 100% sure how I would go about it, but I want to keep all this consistent with the current progress and events that have happened in my homebrewed multiverse so far, and if possible somehow make it something PCs can play a part in in some way (it seems a bit significant for simple PCs, though).
Fluff concept so far:
Basically, what I keep picturing in my head is a scene where all of a sudden an NPC (who will never be named) will pop into my multiverse from a vortex/gate similar to the one which first connected to the Farm Realm (hence making the Far Realm aware of the standard D&D multiverses). Said NPC will look a lot like, but isn't, a certain character from a certain game named Disgaea. He will then look around, begin laughing manically in a humorous way like the certain character I mentioned above, who he isn't, followed by what I picture to be an overview shot of my multiverse's greatwheel functioning normally, but then suddenly being rammed by a completely unknown plane which seems to have materialized out of nowhere.
http://i47.photobucket.com/albums/f173/celestialkin/NPCs%20in%20my%20multiverse/Disgaea_Laharl.png
The greatwheel then proceeds to fall into disorder, as all the divine level powers (and equivalents) become utterly confused as to what is going on.
Then, as the new plane begins to materialize into existence around the mysterious gate and the still laughing young looking NPC, who is again not that character you are probably thinking about, a somewhat succubus looking (although too young looking for such a race) teenage girl holding a trident walks out, followed by what seems to be a celestial deva with wings and a halo (again, apparently very young looking) and a handful of what seem to be blue penguins with pirate wooden legs, all of which seem to be confused as to what the heck/netherworld is going on.
http://i47.photobucket.com/albums/f173/celestialkin/NPCs%20in%20my%20multiverse/Main3transparent.png
Essentially, what I am picturing in my head is a situation where both sets of "Bad Place(s)" + "Good Place" (aka outer planes) are competing with each other for dominance, and with that permanent existence in my homebrew multiverse's continuity. This would also mean that when the conflict finally ends (if it ever does, since I guess it could go on indefinitely) if the "new" planes win it takes over the cosmology's continuity present, future, and past, which would mean that history would essentially be rewritten from the start.
For the fluff of why this is happening I am thinking the following (Warning, slight Disgaea spoilers!):
For those who played the game, you might know that there is an alternate/side route/plot you can take with the characters that leads to "alternate netherworlds", each of which seemed to have it's own slightly different and complete cosmology, with its own "King of the Demons".
The Demon Kings are fighting among themselves to be the ruler of all the netherworlds, with another certain NPC being near to completing his goal. If you beat this side adventure, then Laharl may become the one who rules all the netherworlds.
All of this is actually what started me on this whole idea a year ago back, since I figure that this could mean that they could potentially connect to the D&D cosmology's set of "netherworlds" by this mean (I know, silly idea, but I seem to constantly get such thoughts...). So basically, now Laha...I mean the nameless NPC who just happens to have divine ranks, with the help of those two other NPCs who function as his cohorts in D&D terms, are here to conquer this cosmology as well.
I have been planning a similar "event" with the classic older edition plane of Nirvana appearing from seemingly nowhere (perhaps the Far Realm?) and ending up in a conflict with Mechanis for survival in the continuity, but my first campaign ended just short of beginning this plot. Picture the Modrons fighting against the Inevitables/Formians in an epic LN vs. LN interplaner war (although both planes are somewhat similar...) as the rest of the multiverse looks on in a "WTF?! O.o" expression.
So, although it is cheap as a DM, I decided to recycle the above method I never got to use (well, for now I hope) for this campaign concept.
All these ideas are sketchy and have only been worked on/thought off during some of my free time as I daydream, so I am hoping you guys can give me your opinions and criticism on the whole idea.
I do want to make it a fair chance for either side to 'win", so I figure I should be grateful I can gather PCs/players for that! :smallbiggrin:
I do not want to run epic games, but I do not see how I can possibly involve normal characters into such an epic thing as deciding/tipping the balance of what sets of planes would remain in existence, especially since if one side of the conflict wins it means the PCs have caused/helped rewrite all history (potentially ending the blood war as well, in a way I guess...).
Then again, I guess I could just make it a survival style game, with the PCs' goals being to merely survive what is happening after initially getting stuck on one of the planes at the very start of the campaign? (Hmmm, this could make for an interesting plane hopping adventure as the PCs scatter for safety/a way back to the Prime Material as they planehop from say The Abyss, to Hades, to the Nine Hells, to the new Netherworld. Perhaps even stopping by Celestia, and the Disgaea version of Heaven?)
p.s.
Some P.S. notes:
I figure that Celestia and Heaven would probably be a lot more civil about this. Perhaps both sides simply calmly wait to see the result of the Abyss/Hades/Hells and Netherworld conflict, with the side who loses out willingly getting absorbed to some extent to the winning side?
To make things a bit easier on myself, if the Netherworld wins perhaps after the standard evil planer trio fades some of their creatures get assimilated into the Netherworld? From what I remember of the game, there was a vast verity of demon/devil types in the Netherworld, so I guess it makes sense. If I go this route, perhaps a much lesser version of the bloodwar between the chaotic demons and lawful devils remains? Or would all of them also be humorously less evil like the rest of the Netherworld demons/devils?
To make things a whole lot simpler for myself, would simply reflavoring all the demons and devils into monsters I see in the game be a good idea? It is very cheap as a DM, though. I am also worried about this method causing confusion for the players.
In addition to a number of the planes and many of the monsters/creature changing, wouldn't changing the "good and bad places" into the Disgaea comical versions essentially change the character and humor/humor style of the entire multiverse into that of the Disgaea game?!
If the Netherworld wins, then would simply reflavoring the celestial creatures/devas/etc into "Angels" without mechanical changes be a good idea as a DM? Or does this completely defeat the purpose of making such a major change to my cosmology?
This idea has been floating around in my head since before I even tried my hand at DMing, and now I finally want to ask what you all think about this. Please be as honest and critical as you please.
I am not 100% sure how I would go about it, but I want to keep all this consistent with the current progress and events that have happened in my homebrewed multiverse so far, and if possible somehow make it something PCs can play a part in in some way (it seems a bit significant for simple PCs, though).
Fluff concept so far:
Basically, what I keep picturing in my head is a scene where all of a sudden an NPC (who will never be named) will pop into my multiverse from a vortex/gate similar to the one which first connected to the Farm Realm (hence making the Far Realm aware of the standard D&D multiverses). Said NPC will look a lot like, but isn't, a certain character from a certain game named Disgaea. He will then look around, begin laughing manically in a humorous way like the certain character I mentioned above, who he isn't, followed by what I picture to be an overview shot of my multiverse's greatwheel functioning normally, but then suddenly being rammed by a completely unknown plane which seems to have materialized out of nowhere.
http://i47.photobucket.com/albums/f173/celestialkin/NPCs%20in%20my%20multiverse/Disgaea_Laharl.png
The greatwheel then proceeds to fall into disorder, as all the divine level powers (and equivalents) become utterly confused as to what is going on.
Then, as the new plane begins to materialize into existence around the mysterious gate and the still laughing young looking NPC, who is again not that character you are probably thinking about, a somewhat succubus looking (although too young looking for such a race) teenage girl holding a trident walks out, followed by what seems to be a celestial deva with wings and a halo (again, apparently very young looking) and a handful of what seem to be blue penguins with pirate wooden legs, all of which seem to be confused as to what the heck/netherworld is going on.
http://i47.photobucket.com/albums/f173/celestialkin/NPCs%20in%20my%20multiverse/Main3transparent.png
Essentially, what I am picturing in my head is a situation where both sets of "Bad Place(s)" + "Good Place" (aka outer planes) are competing with each other for dominance, and with that permanent existence in my homebrew multiverse's continuity. This would also mean that when the conflict finally ends (if it ever does, since I guess it could go on indefinitely) if the "new" planes win it takes over the cosmology's continuity present, future, and past, which would mean that history would essentially be rewritten from the start.
For the fluff of why this is happening I am thinking the following (Warning, slight Disgaea spoilers!):
For those who played the game, you might know that there is an alternate/side route/plot you can take with the characters that leads to "alternate netherworlds", each of which seemed to have it's own slightly different and complete cosmology, with its own "King of the Demons".
The Demon Kings are fighting among themselves to be the ruler of all the netherworlds, with another certain NPC being near to completing his goal. If you beat this side adventure, then Laharl may become the one who rules all the netherworlds.
All of this is actually what started me on this whole idea a year ago back, since I figure that this could mean that they could potentially connect to the D&D cosmology's set of "netherworlds" by this mean (I know, silly idea, but I seem to constantly get such thoughts...). So basically, now Laha...I mean the nameless NPC who just happens to have divine ranks, with the help of those two other NPCs who function as his cohorts in D&D terms, are here to conquer this cosmology as well.
I have been planning a similar "event" with the classic older edition plane of Nirvana appearing from seemingly nowhere (perhaps the Far Realm?) and ending up in a conflict with Mechanis for survival in the continuity, but my first campaign ended just short of beginning this plot. Picture the Modrons fighting against the Inevitables/Formians in an epic LN vs. LN interplaner war (although both planes are somewhat similar...) as the rest of the multiverse looks on in a "WTF?! O.o" expression.
So, although it is cheap as a DM, I decided to recycle the above method I never got to use (well, for now I hope) for this campaign concept.
All these ideas are sketchy and have only been worked on/thought off during some of my free time as I daydream, so I am hoping you guys can give me your opinions and criticism on the whole idea.
I do want to make it a fair chance for either side to 'win", so I figure I should be grateful I can gather PCs/players for that! :smallbiggrin:
I do not want to run epic games, but I do not see how I can possibly involve normal characters into such an epic thing as deciding/tipping the balance of what sets of planes would remain in existence, especially since if one side of the conflict wins it means the PCs have caused/helped rewrite all history (potentially ending the blood war as well, in a way I guess...).
Then again, I guess I could just make it a survival style game, with the PCs' goals being to merely survive what is happening after initially getting stuck on one of the planes at the very start of the campaign? (Hmmm, this could make for an interesting plane hopping adventure as the PCs scatter for safety/a way back to the Prime Material as they planehop from say The Abyss, to Hades, to the Nine Hells, to the new Netherworld. Perhaps even stopping by Celestia, and the Disgaea version of Heaven?)
p.s.
Some P.S. notes:
I figure that Celestia and Heaven would probably be a lot more civil about this. Perhaps both sides simply calmly wait to see the result of the Abyss/Hades/Hells and Netherworld conflict, with the side who loses out willingly getting absorbed to some extent to the winning side?
To make things a bit easier on myself, if the Netherworld wins perhaps after the standard evil planer trio fades some of their creatures get assimilated into the Netherworld? From what I remember of the game, there was a vast verity of demon/devil types in the Netherworld, so I guess it makes sense. If I go this route, perhaps a much lesser version of the bloodwar between the chaotic demons and lawful devils remains? Or would all of them also be humorously less evil like the rest of the Netherworld demons/devils?
To make things a whole lot simpler for myself, would simply reflavoring all the demons and devils into monsters I see in the game be a good idea? It is very cheap as a DM, though. I am also worried about this method causing confusion for the players.
In addition to a number of the planes and many of the monsters/creature changing, wouldn't changing the "good and bad places" into the Disgaea comical versions essentially change the character and humor/humor style of the entire multiverse into that of the Disgaea game?!
If the Netherworld wins, then would simply reflavoring the celestial creatures/devas/etc into "Angels" without mechanical changes be a good idea as a DM? Or does this completely defeat the purpose of making such a major change to my cosmology?