OOTS #627 - The Discussion Thread

[The Giant]

New comic is up.

[detrevnisisiht]

Absolute hilarity

[Spiryt]

Heh, being reptilian is probably only reason why this dragon isn't wearing a monocle and stroking a white cat.

[BobVosh]

:smallconfused:What the angry face?

[RowlieBowlie]

Finally some high-level spellslinging, however, I missed the arrogance in Vaarsuvius character this time...

He even fled without a long:

I will for now astray this battle-field to be certain I will be able to overcome you in a nt-so-distant past as to the fact that once we will meet once again, you can be certain I will be far more prepared for a challenge as the likes of you, but for now you are just a waste of my magical talents and an encumbarance too my research, seeing this I will not waste my time on you henceforth....etc.....

[Salty]

Nice. Great moment for V. I see an epipheny coming.

Also, I think it's a lot more likely that it's a relative of the other black dragon.

[Athaniar]

That dragon is my new favorite villain. And new proof that the dragon is Disintegrated Dragon's mother: Quarr refers to it as "her". Apparently imps can tell male and female dragons apart. And V is so dead.

[Z-dan]

One word: eep :smalleek:

[ghost_warlock]

I wonder if the pointy-eared monkeys are as tasty as the round-eared ones are... :smallamused:

[Laketh Stadt]

Ouch, the battle went rather predictably. Sucks to have an ancient dragon as your stalker...

[MickJay]

Yet again someone rubs in how V's powers can be completely useless :smallamused:

Plus the pointy-eared monkey. Ouch. :smallbiggrin:

[Thorin]

OMG!!!!

V is joining the "celestial choir" any minute now

[ref]

80 electricity damage, save for half. Not as efficient as the blue ray...

V's in trouble now. Awesome comic, and updates are coming fast now! *Starts waiting for 628*

[SPoD]

That dragon is my new favorite villain. And new proof that the dragon is Disintegrated Dragon's mother: Quarr refers to it as "her". Apparently imps can tell male and female dragons apart.

Yeah, this comic kicks the "dragon = Kubota's true form" theory in the nuts a few times. It also utterly kills the "dragon = polymorphed V's mate" theory, since an Anti-Magic Shell would cancel Polymorph.

[tom712]

Wow, so many 7th level spells.

I hope Durkon won't have to resurrect another member of the Order.

[T.S. Dibs]

Oww! That can't be good.

[Shadowcaller]

Yeah, this comic kicks the "dragon = Kubota's true form" theory in the nuts a few times. It also utterly kills the "dragon = polymorphed V's mate" theory, since an Anti-Magic Shell would cancel Polymorph.

:smallsigh:
How many times do I have to say it was a unlikely theory? I knew I never should have mentioned it.

The still most likely theory is that the dragon somehow is related (maybe not by blood but still) to the black dragon some hundred comics ago.

[TheBST]

Woah, you're really cranking these out quickly, Rich.

Cheers for not leaving us in suspense too long.

[Klose_the_Sith]

Woah! That is intense, and I can't see V getting out of this without some part of hir caving in seriously.

[Coldwind]

That was cool, V totally "pwned".

Hoping that next strip will be coming soon, too..

[Seonor]

I don't mind the sometimes long time between updates, but the fast pacing of the last few is awesome.

And poor V, your magic desertes you once more!

[magic9mushroom]

Well, that was fast.

I predict the dragon will best V easily only to be tapped on the shoulder by an Infernal. Or Sabine will show up.

OR V will use Wall of Force.

Also, isn't it Antimagic Field, not Anti-Magic Shell?

[Liliedhe]

Color me impressed. :smallbiggrin:

So there are ways around spellcasters... :smallcool:

[Squall83]

Wow, so is V now Level 17? I saw him cast 7 spells of level 6 or higher (4x disintegrate, forcecage, bugsbys hand and prismatic spray)

[neoseph7]

Rapid Fire posting! Awesome!

I had a session that went something like this. The dragon won though, so I'm hoping that isn't the case.

Magic set of four words for Qarr's help and eventually ultimate power?

[Dausuul]

Heh. I've said before that one of the meanest, nastiest, ugliest monsters in 3.X is a dragon that knows how to cast anti-magic shell. V is going to have to do some really, really fast talking now.

Oh, and just to get this out of the way:

Argument: Ancient black dragons cast as 11th-level sorcerors. It shouldn't have access to 6th-level spells.

Counter-Argument: It said it has "a passion for the arcane arts... even more so than others of [its] kind." So it probably took a level in sorceror.

There we go.


Wow, so is V now Level 17? I saw him cast 7 spells of level 6 or higher (4x disintegrate, forcecage, bugsbys hand and prismatic spray)

No, V is probably level 14. Don't forget bonus spells from Intelligence and specialization.

[Skaven]

Yay Dragon!

She rocks.

I'm rooting for her.

V has become a very nasty and quite lawful evil person of late.

While her? She's a mother fighting for a murdered child.

Yes, it was murder. They walked into someone else's home and killed the occupants and took their stuff.

Its a strange fallacy of D&D.

[small pumpkin m]

Honestly, the phrase "you are as skilled as my information has led me to believe." Suggests to me that there is something going on here besides revenge, indeed, this is the the way Evil potential employers seem to talk before offering a job, or while testing an opponents skill for other reasons.

Kind of a shot in the dark though.

[The Giant]

Also, isn't it Antimagic Field, not Anti-Magic Shell?

Yes, yes it should. Fixed now. (I left the dash in to make it easier to read.)

[Jaysyn]

Also, isn't it Antimagic Field, not Anti-Magic Shell?

It was Anti-Magic Shell in 2nd Ed., but that sure isn't a 2nd Ed. black dragon.

[Fafnir13]

I love the personality of this dragon. Hopefully, she will last a bit longer then the last one we had.

[Elfanatic]

Sweet monkey Jesus

Normally I would say that our pointy-eared hero would survive whatever's thrown at hir, but with Burlew nothing is certain. That cunning bastard.

[SPoD]

Wow, so is V now Level 17? I saw him cast 7 spells of level 6 or higher (4x disintegrate, forcecage, bugsbys hand and prismatic spray)

Hardly; three of those spells were Evocations, which is V's specialist school. A 14th level wizard could have easily done that without even taking bonus spells for high Int into account.

Plus, if V was 17th level, wouldn't he/she be using 9th level spells against the dragon instead of 7th level spells?

[Marlowe]

Ok, so we've confirmed the dragon is a she, has a good source of information, and is hostile. The young 'uns mother and the oracle's client is looking like a sure thing.

Oh, and that things are going to get worse before they get better.:smalleek:

Still, "And me? I am still a dragon". Badass.

[Johnny Blade]

I love the personality of this dragon. Hopefully, she will last a bit longer then the last one we had.
I fully agree with these two statements. :smallcool:

[factotum]

V is BONED... :smallbiggrin:

[SolkaTruesilver]

I'm not sure if Ancient Dragons can have 6th-level spells.. (Antimagic Field). But on the other hand, it's perfectly Kosher for a dragon to have sorcerer levels, which boost his natural caster level like any prestige class could.

Can someone tell us what is Sorcerer equivalent to an Ancient Black Dragon?

the Challenge Rating would also be interesting. I'm wondering on how many XP V can gain.

Edit: Bloody me, I've had the Monster Manual I right by me...

Okay.. hmm.. 11th level Sorcerer. Which means.. err.. it could usually only cast 5th-level spells. It probably took 1 level of Sorcerer (or one prestige class?)

As for challenge rating: 19 for a Vanilla Black Dragon. V is sooooo screwed... :smalleek:

[HandofShadows]

V is in big trouble. This pushed the situation where the "four words" might be needed for V to stay alive. But that does not fit the prediction though.

[HOLEkevin]

I don't know why that dragon found that so fascinating. I knew what was going to happen.

[Kingrat]

Come on V!!!!

man, the sheer impact (pun intended) of this comic is awesome.

Get up V!!!!

[Trixie]

Finally, someone got their just desserts :smallamused:

It's nice to see someone owned by karma that has been accumulating for so long :smallbiggrin:

I have a feeling that someone will kill that dragon in the next strip, though :smallfrown:

[Estelindis]

Ooooh. Harsh. :smalleek:

[pendell]

Wow, so many 7th level spells.

I hope Durkon won't have to resurrect another member of the Order.

Not unless Durkon gains true resurrection. If the dragon kills V -- and I find it awfully unlikely V survived that -- it's quite likely the dragon will eat V as well, leaving nothing to resurrect.

That dragon is made of 100% awesome and win. This is why you have teammates and don't rely solely on magic, even if you ARE the most awesome wizard ever.

I can't pretend I'm happy with the way things are looking for V, but that dragon is just an *awesome* villain. Cool, intelligent. Powerful. I hope we see more of her.

Respectfully,

Brian P.

[Miraqariftsky]

Delicious work, Giant!

Or rather, not yet, it seems. Looks like yond draconic matron's more bent on inflicting a painful revenge than a quick and easy kill...

...though being smashed against a mountain has chances of doing just that...

Well, well... hoho, looks like a role-reversal of Earendil and Ancalagon the Black at the battle where there latter was smashed against the spires of Thangorodrim...

[Estelindis]

Well, well... hoho, looks like a role-reversal of Earendil and Ancalagon the Black at the battle where there latter was smashed against the spires of Thangorodrim...
Vaarsuvius is no Eärendil. :smallwink:

What with Eärendil actually being able to fight, you know? :smallbiggrin:

[warmachine]

Wait a minute, the elves as a species were created by the gods, rather than evolving from an earlier species of ape. In our world, the idea that people were monkeys was triggered by the Theory of Evolution. This suggests dragons subscribe to that theory despite, presumably, lack of evidence to support it and verifiable evidence in favour of divine creation. Mind you, in our world, people can believe some ridiculous ****, so I shouldn't be surprised that dragon does.

[Pandabear]

Ouch.. I hope V survives..

[Fingolfin]

I will just say: "Power overwhelming" :smallamused:

[SPoD]

Wait a minute, the elves as a species were created by the gods, rather than evolving from an earlier species of ape. In our world, the idea that people were monkeys was triggered by the Theory of Evolution. This suggests dragons subscribe to that theory despite, presumably, lack of evidence to support it and verifiable evidence in favour of divine creation. Mind you, in our world, people can believe some ridiculous ****, so I shouldn't be surprised that dragon does.

They can still be related to monkeys even if they were created. In a D&D world, you would still say that horses and ponies were related, even though the gods created both types of animals. Same idea here: Elves (and humans, etc.) are all classified as a type of ape, regardless of how they came into being.

[ChristopherDK]

well.. here's hoping that V has contingency with a teleport or similar escape spell cast (contingency is an evokation as far as i recall) and the dragon will throw V out of the anti-magic field, before killing her.

and Auch... first Belkar, now V seems to be forced into character development and recognizing the use of friends. I'm sure V now blames Cerebus like Haley in strip 242 :D

[Hamilkar]

I like that dragon.....! He is almost as cool as V him/herself! :smallbiggrin:

[Gwyn chan 'r Gwyll]

Those last two lines are now my favourite lines ever. Good job Burlew!

[tremodian]

Always nice to see high level magic used.

Umm... doesn't antimagic field explicitly NOT affect wall of force (and hence Force Cage), prismatic spray or prismatic wall? Similarly Force Cage cannot be negated by an antimagic field, only disintegration, sphere of annihilation, rod of cancellation or mage's disjunction, right?

Having the dragon cast mage's disjunction would have been monumentally scary but then an ancient dragon that can cast ninth level magic is very, very scary indeed and even more difficult to defeat.

T.

[daggaz]

So this is how V finally catches up to Roy..

At least He can finally scry on Hailey, now. =)

Also, why do people keep hoping V will cast spell X and save the day? The dragon has Him pinned within its antimagic field. NO SPELLS for V. Kind of the whole point of the dragons diatribe...

[elonin]

Great comic Giant. I'm glad to see V suffer the fall that has been building up from her arrogence for awhile now.

[The Bookworm]

Great comic! That dragon is incredible!

[RMS Oceanic]

Wow. Another ego-bashing - as well as physical bashing - for Vaarsuvius. Assuming (s)he survives, I predict one of two things to happen, depending on who saves h**.

1. If Qarr saves h**, (s)he will lament that once again h** magic has failed, and may be more receptive to Qarr's offer of research.
2. If Durkon and Elan were to unexpectedly bring the cavalry, and the Cleric of Loki's message got through, maybe (s)he will have the long-overdue epiphany that Magic is not absolute, and that no (wo)man is an island.

Either way, I'll wait 36 hours, then destroy my F5 button waiting for #628.

[Ronnoc]

I believe this comic has also killed the "V make a deal with Qarr theory". If Qarr follows his own rule he'll be trying to join up with the dragon now.

[kreszantas]

About time V got what hir deserves for leaving Durkon, Elan and crew... Solo wizards last about as long as a wet noodle no matter the level.

[thubby]

awesome badass villain.
I could be wrong, but isn't there some rules flubbing going on here? between the dragon flying in anti magic (doesn't the draconomicon say something about that?) and the force cage?

knowing V, he will (rather reasonably) deduce that he needs a better spell selection. if the charop boards have told us anything, it's that antimagic is only a minor setback.

[Stormgale]

A dragon with anti magic field....
Like a shark with a laser

Pure awesomenes :P

[Trixie]

Well, well... hoho, looks like a role-reversal of Earendil and Ancalagon the Black at the battle where there latter was smashed against the spires of Thangorodrim...

I've always wondered how exactly a tiny (relatively) elf could throw or defeat Balrog or Dragon in Tolkien's stories. Did they stab their opponents feet until they give up? :smallconfused:

[NeonRonin]

As the Internet personality known as Strong Bad might say in a situation like this...

:smalleek: Oh, Crunchberries. :smalleek:

[Trixie]

Wait a minute, the elves as a species were created by the gods, rather than evolving from an earlier species of ape. In our world, the idea that people were monkeys was triggered by the Theory of Evolution. This suggests dragons subscribe to that theory despite, presumably, lack of evidence to support it and verifiable evidence in favour of divine creation. Mind you, in our world, people can believe some ridiculous ****, so I shouldn't be surprised that dragon does.

It is a taunt :smallsigh:

[wRAR]

between the dragon flying in anti magic (doesn't the draconomicon say something about that?)

Yes, it does.
"however, dragons have been known to take wing and maneuver inside antimagic areas where their spells and breath weapons do not work"


and the force cage?

"Certain spells, such as wall of force, prismatic sphere, and prismatic wall, remain unaffected by antimagic field (see the individual spell descriptions). "
Well, by RAW forcecage description doesn't say anything about AMF (WoF description does).

[warmachine]

They [humanoids] can still be related to monkeys even if they were created. In a D&D world, you would still say that horses and ponies were related, even though the gods created both types of animals. Same idea here: Elves (and humans, etc.) are all classified as a type of ape, regardless of how they came into being.

Why would it be said that horses and ponies are related in the D&D world? Just because they're a similar shape? Elves, dwarves and humans have similar shapes but, in the OotS universe, they were created as separate species. Worse, if D&D rules are considered useful in describing OotS biology, apes are categorized as animals whilst elves are humanoids. Spells or effects that can only work on humanoids, such as Hold Person, don't have partial effects on apes. There is no evidence that apes are any more related to elves than, say, ogres.

Classifications in our world should not be assumed in OotS. In the same way that real world physics cannot be applied in D&D, real world biology cannot be applied in OotS. That is, in the OotS universe, there is no evidence that Vaarsuvius being a pointy-eared monkey is even loosely reasonable.

[Crod]

Definitely revenge, or assassin. But she's talking about informants, not contractors, so I'd go for revenge.

A vague similarity to the black dragon assassin in the Gaming section, but probably just coincidence.

[kabbes]

Oh noes! Now I must know what happens next!

Damn you, cliffhanger.

[Demus]

Welcome to the school of pain V. Your teacher is the dragon that is currently kicking your ass.

[Surfing HalfOrc]

Holy Crap! V is in big trouble this time!

To bad there's not a big, muscley guy with a sharp pointy piece of metal around! Maybe there is a use for fighters, after all. :smalltongue:

[Lauren]

Classifications in our world should not be assumed in OotS. In the same way that real world physics cannot be applied in D&D, real world biology cannot be applied in OotS. That is, in the OotS universe, there is no evidence that Vaarsuvius being a pointy-eared monkey is even loosely reasonable.

Maybe the dragon's just spent more time studying magic than genetics? :smalltongue:

[whatchamacallit]

Very, very cool, I'm loving every panel. When is the Oots movie coming out by the way? :elan:

[SPoD]

That is, in the OotS universe, there is no evidence that Vaarsuvius being a pointy-eared monkey is even loosely reasonable.

The evidence is that a very intelligent dragon just said so. Presumably she is in a better position to know what happens in their world than we are.

Yes, the OOTS world doesn't need to follow real-world biology, but it also doesn't need to NOT follow real-world biology just because it was created. That is certainly one way to create a D&D world, but it is not the way this world is created, as evidenced by the dragon's dialogue.

[bluedolphin359]

Holy crap, V is dead. Deader than dead. It's like the afterlife is becoming the time-out corner for people who take too great of a risk. First Roy, jumping on the back of a zombie dragon (Just noticed that a lot of people seem to die near dragons, coincidence?), and now, probably V, for abandoning hir teammates.

Now that I've said that, I'm sure that V will be alive next strip, just to prove everything I said wrong. :smallbiggrin:

[Vargtass]

Holy crap, V is dead. Deader than dead. It's like the afterlife is becoming the time-out corner for people who take too great of a risk. First Roy, jumping on the back of a zombie dragon (Just noticed that a lot of people seem to die near dragons, coincidence?), and now, probably V, for abandoning hir teammates.

Now that I've said that, I'm sure that V will be alive next strip, just to prove everything I said wrong. :smallbiggrin:

I guess V's best chance is that the dragon may not be able to resist the urge to gloat. Given her personality so far, I find it probable.

[Green Bean]

Why would it be said that horses and ponies are related in the D&D world? Just because they're a similar shape? Elves, dwarves and humans have similar shapes but, in the OotS universe, they were created as separate species. Worse, if D&D rules are considered useful in describing OotS biology, apes are categorized as animals whilst elves are humanoids. Spells or effects that can only work on humanoids, such as Hold Person, don't have partial effects on apes. There is no evidence that apes are any more related to elves than, say, ogres.

Classifications in our world should not be assumed in OotS. In the same way that real world physics cannot be applied in D&D, real world biology cannot be applied in OotS. That is, in the OotS universe, there is no evidence that Vaarsuvius being a pointy-eared monkey is even loosely reasonable.

Who says it has anything to do with evolution or biology? It's a taunt. Monkeys look kind of like hairy people, especially viewed through the lens of a different species, and are not nearly as smart. Would you have objected if V called the dragon an overgrown iguana?

[Lunaya]

:eek: I'm resisting the urge to do a Cartman impression.

[The Greek]

Who says it has anything to do with evolution or biology? It's a taunt. Monkeys look kind of like hairy people, especially viewed through the lens of a different species, and are not nearly as smart. Would you have objected if V called the dragon an overgrown iguana?

Historically (in the real world):

There was the belief Englishmen had tails...

And there was a monkey hanged in Hull after being mistaken for a French spy...

so I can see how a Dragon could make some sort of connection.

[Leewei]

Wow. This is the best episode to come along in a while. Great dialogue! Keep it up, Rich!

[Phrozt]

Man... poor V!! And I thought *I* had a bad day...

[Eldariel]

Anti-Magic Field does not work like that! Or the abbreviated version, Force-effects persist regardless of how many AMFs, Dispel Magics and Reaving Dispels you cast. You need at least Disintegrate or Rod of Cancellation to rid yourself of a Forcecage.

[Ronjun]

Who says it has anything to do with evolution or biology? It's a taunt. Monkeys look kind of like hairy people, especially viewed through the lens of a different species, and are not nearly as smart. Would you have objected if V called the dragon an overgrown iguana?

Totally agree. Evolution probably does not exist in OotS. We are just reading too much into it and relating it to evolution, since it's so familiar a concept.

And regarding the AMF, I really thought that it didn't affect Forcecage and other Wall of Force type of spells. But, you know what? I guess it's a house rule or something...

[stsasser]

Anti-Magic Field - don't it turn my red eyes - and your red dress - brown?

No worries for V; The Dragon and The Monkey make great friends.

[Saph]

Anti-Magic Field does not work like that! Or the abbreviated version, Force-effects persist regardless of how many AMFs, Dispel Magics and Reaving Dispels you cast. You need at least Disintegrate or Rod of Cancellation to rid yourself of a Forcecage.

Not true, actually. Wall of Force is immune to antimagic - but Forcecage isn't. So yes, Anti-Magic Field does indeed work that way. :)

- Saph

[RMS Oceanic]

Anti-Magic Field does not work like that! Or the abbreviated version, Force-effects persist regardless of how many AMFs, Dispel Magics and Reaving Dispels you cast. You need at least Disintegrate or Rod of Cancellation to rid yourself of a Forcecage.

AMF specifically ignores Wall of Force, Prismatic Wall and Prismatic Field, and advises us to look at a spell's description for other spells it ignores. Forcecage is not mentioned. Maybe RAI it's meant to be ignored, but RAW, it's not.

[Ronan]

Nice. Great moment for V. I see an epipheny coming.

Also, I think it's a lot more likely that it's a relative of the other black dragon.

Epipheny... it's been a long time since I don't hear this word. :smallbiggrin:

[Scarlet Knight]

Hmmm, how may points of damage does a dragon do when it performs a Flamenco upon your head?
:smallcool:

[ichini_sanshigo]

Poor V. In the Azure City battle, when se ran out of spells, the lesson se should have taken away was, "Hm, maybe I should diversify my skill set". Instead, se decided, "Moar spells, pls!" Now, it's coming back to bite her in the booty.

[SteveMB]

Wait a minute, the elves as a species were created by the gods, rather than evolving from an earlier species of ape. In our world, the idea that people were monkeys was triggered by the Theory of Evolution. This suggests dragons subscribe to that theory despite, presumably, lack of evidence to support it and verifiable evidence in favour of divine creation. Mind you, in our world, people can believe some ridiculous ****, so I shouldn't be surprised that dragon does.

Not a distinction the dragon is likely to bother with.

("Fascinating. I cannot help but notice that the squashed remains of an elf are indistinguishable from those of a human, or a halfling, or a dwarf....")

[brized]

Always nice to see high level magic used.

Umm... doesn't antimagic field explicitly NOT affect wall of force (and hence Force Cage), prismatic spray or prismatic wall? Similarly Force Cage cannot be negated by an antimagic field, only disintegration, sphere of annihilation, rod of cancellation or mage's disjunction, right?

Having the dragon cast mage's disjunction would have been monumentally scary but then an ancient dragon that can cast ninth level magic is very, very scary indeed and even more difficult to defeat.

T.

Yeah, one could argue that the dragon cheated but the AMF-immunity is not explicitly stated in the forcecage description like it is for prismatic wall relating to prismatic sphere.

http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/antimagicField.htm

http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/wallOfForce.htm

http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/forcecage.htm

http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/prismaticWall.htm

http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/prismaticSphere.htm

[Mauve Shirt]

Oh crap. Poor V, more proof for him that magic is not all-powerful.

[Geno9999]

:smalleek: V!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
You gotta admit, that dragon is awesome, but V!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!:smalleek:

[Ronjun]

Hmmm, how may points of damage does a dragon do when it performs a Flamenco upon your head?
:smallcool:

2d8+16 (2d8+1 and a half STR mod).

Also, WoF does not state that is unaffected by AMF in its description. And AMF does state that WoF, prismatic wall and prismatic sphere, as well as others are not affected. Well the exact words are certain spells, but you get the gist.

[ericgrau]

Grrr... there's a reason that spell has a 1500gp material component. Then again Rich could see that as OP and house-rule it out. I just think a dimension door or disintegrate would have been more plausible.



Like a wall of force spell, a forcecage resists dispel magic, but it is vulnerable to a disintegrate spell, and it can be destroyed by a sphere of annihilation or a rod of cancellation.

Barred Cage
This version of the spell produces a 20-foot cube made of bands of force (similar to a wall of force spell) for bars




Certain spells, such as wall of force, prismatic sphere, and prismatic wall, remain unaffected by antimagic field (see the individual spell descriptions).

[The Tygre]

"While I? I am still a dragon."

That was pure EPIC AWESOME WINS!

[Kaytara]

Whoa...:smalleek: Poor V...

Frankly, I am really surprised at the amount of schadenfreude I'm seeing here. :smallconfused: Sure, Vaarsuvius has been acting like a jerk lately, but for one thing, he still has good intentions, not to mention deep psychological trauma. And now V's faced with an opponent who's way out of his league, has Spell Resistance, formidable physical abilities, is an able spellcaster AND has had the chance to prepare specifically for this encounter. And you're all cheering for how V had it coming? It is anything but fair.

As for karma, would the battle really have gone all that differently if V had faced the dragon with Elan and Durkon at his side, even including the two paladins? The dragon can fly and is easily out of reach anything the others can toss. It likely would have just ignored the companions.

[Rakim Avishot]

Vaarsuvius is no Eärendil. :smallwink:

What with Eärendil actually being able to fight, you know? :smallbiggrin:

"Sky's the limit Ears, sky's the limit."
-A quote from the sexiest, shoeless-iest:smallconfused:, godiest god of war!!
V could very well be related to anyone with the word ear in his name :smallbiggrin:
I actually have no idea what you guys are talking about, so I was just deliberately wasting your time. I am sorry.

[Dunesen]

What? Instead of getting answers to all our questions about who the dragon is and what they're here for, we instead get an awesome battle scene complete with grade-A mustache twirling from the villain? What a letdown! Order of the Stick sucks, just like it's always sucked since all those other people started reading it immediately after I started to read it. (/sarcasm)

Seriously, this was a great strip. Even though we just got little teases about the dragon (we know it's a female and that they've done research on V), the fight was worth the delay in finding out the dragon's backstory (though I'm pretty sure we've all guessed it since we saw the last strip).

And I want to say it was AWESOME to see a villain monologing at the RIGHT time, ie. while still ACTING and making sure the hero is getting beaten down, not after incapacitating them for a moment and thinking they're down for the count.

That said, we'll probably get a wall of text with the next strip, since V most likely IS down for the count now (battered, no high-level spells, probably no magic at all, just got slammed into a rocky mound). The next strip (early tomorrow morning, please? I have a plane to catch and them I'm at Disneyworld for a few days without internet access) will most likely be the dragon pinning V to the ground while explaining who they are and what they're after. Perhaps while grinding V into the rocks a little for added torment.

[Dunesen]

Frankly, I am really surprised at the amount of schadenfreude I'm seeing here.

Schadenfreude? I barely know her!

Now everyone reading groans :smallsigh:

[shakes019]

By my count, V should still have access to one 6th-level Evocation, leaving hir with the following options:

Chain Lightning: 1d6/level damage; 1 secondary bolt/level each deals half damage.
Contingency: Sets trigger condition for another spell.
Forceful Hand: Hand pushes creatures away.
Freezing Sphere: Freezes water or deals cold damage.

As mentioned previously, Wall of Force is immune to AMF, and is only 5th level.

[Zevox]

:eek:

Oh, damn. That's about the worst possible situation V could find herself. The only spell that can destroy an Antimagic Field is beyond her power - Mordekein's/Mage's Disjunction, a 9th-level spell. And even if she had it, being grappled by a Dragon is not a situation any wizard can easily escape, and in itself cuts off her ability to cast spells with somatic components. If something big doesn't happen soon here, she's dead, no two ways about it.

Zevox

[HUMVEE Driver]

So why does the dragon simply say "No" when hit with the Prismatic Spray? Was that just arrogant battle-talk or what ?It seems that the dragon was not affected at all. Yet the spell (yellow beam) does 80hp, 40hp if the save is made. I think it goes without saying that the dragon made her save. And I guess that 40hp is just a drop in the bucket for her. But she appears totally unhurt. Spell resistance, maybe? I guess a tiny scar on the dragon would have been satisfying. Anyone?

[Optimystik]

Honestly, the phrase "you are as skilled as my information has led me to believe." Suggests to me that there is something going on here besides revenge, indeed, this is the the way Evil potential employers seem to talk before offering a job, or while testing an opponents skill for other reasons.

Kind of a shot in the dark though.

Wow, now that would be one hell of a twist. It never explicitly said it was there to kill V, after all. Certainly that dragon might be more likely to give V UAP than a lowly imp, ignoring infernal assistance.


So why does the dragon simply say "No" when hit with the Prismatic Spray? Was that just arrogant battle-talk or what ?It seems that the dragon was not affected at all. Yet the spell (yellow beam) does 80hp, 40hp if the save is made. I think it goes without saying that the dragon made her save. And I guess that 40hp is just a drop in the bucket for her. But she appears totally unhurt. Spell resistance, maybe? I guess a tiny scar on the dragon would have been satisfying. Anyone?

SR is indeed the most likely explanation.

[Kaytara]

SR is indeed the most likely explanation.

Indeed, apparently (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/monsters/dragonTrue.htm#blackDragon) Ancient Black Dragons have 25 SR. Vaarsuvius would be royally screwed even without the anti-magic.

[Vitellio]

More proof of the fact that banning conjuration is utterly asinine.

I would have used disintegration to get away from the forcecage, but good anyway... poor V :smallfrown:

[B.I.T.T.]

Whoa....V's appears to be up a certain creek, whose name shall not be spoken, with no means of propelling his or her raft, canoe, or other small boat. If only he had the help of a cleric of Thor, or perhaps a bard with a prestige class in dashing swordsman. Oh well, can't be helped

Good comic.

[AtomicKitKat]

I don't get why people are so hung up on the "pointy-eared monkey" comment. To a dragon, all ape-like beings look the same(ie, barely worth the effort to swallow), with minor differences.

Regarding the rest of the comic, page right out of the Draconomicon. :D

The "No" is classic "That doesn't deserve any more attention than one word". Suggests the SR kicked in, and it simply ignored the Spray.

[Kaytara]

f only he had the help of a cleric of Thor, or perhaps a bard with a prestige class in dashing swordsman.

Heh, then what? Elan wouldn't be able to do anything against a Ancient Dragon (or a regular one, for that matter) on his best day. And Durkon only has three avenues - his little hammer, useless against a flying opponent, and Thor's Lightning and Thor's Might, both of which would still be at odds with the SR and the Anti-Magic if with nothing else. They likely wouldn't even have been able to serve as a distraction, as the dragon would've been able to ignore them entirely.

[Ronjun]

Indeed, apparently (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/monsters/dragonTrue.htm#blackDragon) Ancient Black Dragons have 25 SR. Vaarsuvius would be royally screwed even without the anti-magic.

Could have also been hit with either of the 3 colors that have a Negate save: Blue (Fort negates), Violet or Indigo (Will negates).

As it stands, V has a 50% chance to bypass SR. Not that bad. Although I do believe being an Evoker is quite a cunning trap the designers laid out. Evocation gets progressively worse with each passing level (IMHO), what with everything having a Half save, evasion, improved evasion, SR, antimagic and all sorts of shenanigans. There's nothing like a Conjurer with high Dex to take care of things. True, you don't have that much of a mass effect, but you can always go with the Permanent Shrinked Boulder of doom.

[Mojique]

Marvelous! Remains me of dialogues between Spider-Man & Doc Ock. :smallbiggrin:

[RMS Oceanic]

Could have also been hit with either of the 3 colors that have a Negate save: Blue (Fort negates), Violet or Indigo (Will negates).

When V stoned the pit fiend, the Blue beam was the widest, suggesting that was the ability the spell had chosen. This time, it was the yellow one, which is electricity damage. Wee buns to a dragon with a CR of 6 or more higher than your caster level.

[B.I.T.T.]

Heh, then what? Elan wouldn't be able to do anything against a Ancient Dragon (or a regular one, for that matter) on his best day. And Durkon only has three avenues - his little hammer, useless against a flying opponent, and Thor's Lightning and Thor's Might, both of which would still be at odds with the SR and the Anti-Magic if with nothing else. They likely wouldn't even have been able to serve as a distraction, as the dragon would've been able to ignore them entirely.

Uhh...then...then they'd perform one of the many bits done by either Monty Python or the 3 Stooges, and the black dragon would laugh herself to....okay nevermind that wouldn't work. But I'm sure they'd think of something.

[Optimystik]

Heh, then what? Elan wouldn't be able to do anything against a Ancient Dragon (or a regular one, for that matter) on his best day. And Durkon only has three avenues - his little hammer, useless against a flying opponent, and Thor's Lightning and Thor's Might, both of which would still be at odds with the SR and the Anti-Magic if with nothing else. They likely wouldn't even have been able to serve as a distraction, as the dragon would've been able to ignore them entirely.

I'd think a cleric that can cast 7th-level spells would be slightly more useful than that. Off the top of my head, Wind Walk would have given both V and Durkon a chance to escape (it's faster than Overland Flight and they would both get DR to boot), not to mention Harm or tanking with Thor's Might before the Dragon's AMF was cast, giving V breathing room to spray.

[KIDS]

Nooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo ooooooooooooo!

Can't fly... can't cast... can't move... hate monsters with class levels!

p.s. been trying to post this for an eternity, all the lag :)

[Inkling]

Okay, so I've never played D&D, so I don't know if this works or not. But how can you use magic to produce an anti-magic field? It seems like a paradox.

[Luircin]

Now this... this is what solo wizard vs. dragon is supposed to look like.

Sure, you might be able to use cheese, luck, a surprise attack, and/or high level spells to take down one, but do you really think that the other dragons are going to just ignore you doing that?

I hope V gets out of this situation without killing the dragon. One of the most awesome villains EVER.

Comic probably won't go in that direction, but the last revenging-the-villain character we had ended up joining the Linear Guild. Wonder what would happen if the dragon joined up, by which I mean made Nale, Sabine, and Thog into minions under threat of teeth and claws.

[MammonAzrael]

Absolutely excellent. And I love the speed these have come out in, it really makes the battle more intense instead of letting the tension/excitement die down a bit.

The monkey comment is likely to just be a battle taunt, and not to be taken as some literal insight into V's ancestry (but rather an insult to it).

The Anti-Magic Field, by RAW (if possibly not RAI), cancels out Forcecage, since neither spell mentions the other. So Rich is still playing by the rules.

The dragon, at Sorcerer CL 11 persumably took either levels in Sorcerer or a CL advancing PrC, a theory supported by it's passion in the arcane arts.

This dragon is almost certainly the winged visitor the Oracle had, as it is the best way it to have the knowledge of V it displays (without introducing some new element, that is).

Furthermore, the theory that it is the Young Adult Black Dragon's mother is even more likely, given we know now it's female.

Personally, I believe that if V is going to accept some type of offer that will lead h** down the dark side towards ultimate arcane power, it probably going to come from this dragon. The one that just trumped V in so many ways, and is a big fan of the arts herself. Perhaps the offer will even lead to Tiamat somehow.

Great job Giant! :smallbiggrin::smallbiggrin::smallbiggrin:

(And please keep up the speedy updates!)

[Nevitan]

Ah!
So many updates!

I hope V doesn't die...

[Pandabear]

Okay, so I've never played D&D, so I don't know if this works or not. But how can you use magic to produce an anti-magic field? It seems like a paradox.

Pretty much the same idea of making a wall of matter (e.g. bricks) to stop matter (e.g. arrows, etc.).. or something like a wall of particles that affect every other type of particle that comes into contact with it..

[Simons Mith]

I hope V gets out of this situation without killing the dragon.


You hope V gets out without killing the dragon?!? 8-)

And I didn't even know Optimist was available as a prestige class. How many levels have you got in it??

[Gilmiril]

"Sky's the limit Ears, sky's the limit."
-A quote from the sexiest, shoeless-iest:smallconfused:, godiest god of war!!
V could very well be related to anyone with the word ear in his name :smallbiggrin:
I actually have no idea what you guys are talking about, so I was just deliberately wasting your time. I am sorry.

They're talking about Tolkien's world. Read The Silmarilion for the full story of Ancalagon the Black, greatest of the winged dragons, and his death at the hands of Eärendil. Or if you just want something quick, you can look them up in the following:

The Encyclopedia of Arda (http://www.glyphweb.com/ARDA/default.asp)
The Thain's Book (http://www.tuckborough.net/)

[Feefers]

I think V fell into a trance and this is a dream just now.

[Gilmiril]

I don't know why that dragon found that so fascinating. I knew what was going to happen.

Sarcasm, perhaps? The dragon is flaunting its superiority over V.

[Sholos]

Pretty much the same idea of making a wall of matter (e.g. bricks) to stop matter (e.g. arrows, etc.).. or something like a wall of particles that affect every other type of particle that comes into contact with it..

Not exactly. It's more like making a wall of matter out of energy. Of course, that's science, and science has to make sense.

[Blaznak]

Oooh! A fun confrontation. It also shows that the Order of the Stick is much stronger together than individually. Yes, Haley and Belkar got out of their jam, but after what sort of troubles and tribulations? Here V has gone off the deep end by not staying true to the group. I can only wonder how Durkon and Elan are doing!
Later

[The Wanderer]

Holy s---!

I actually said that twice, once at seeing things updated already, and secondly at the last panel in the strip. Wow.:smalleek:

Qarr better heal fast and do something quick to save V's hide.

[Quorothorn]

Well, this settles it: these are clearly the words and actions of someone on a vengeance trip.

[Adeptus]

Awesome!

I love dragons who aren't just big dumb monsters.

[lordhaw]

WOW!!!

Now that's the way a dragon should be. Too often they are treated like...well Wyverns really, with breath weapons. Their intelligence and magic casting capabilities aren't treated properly.

And the dragon's dialogue is AWSOME!!!

Poor V. The whole exercise by the dragon was to thoroughly humiliate V and that succeeded...with major overkill.

[Scarlet Knight]

Heh, then what? Elan wouldn't be able to do anything against a Ancient Dragon (or a regular one, for that matter) on his best day. And Durkon only has three avenues - his little hammer, useless against a flying opponent, and Thor's Lightning and Thor's Might, both of which would still be at odds with the SR and the Anti-Magic if with nothing else. They likely wouldn't even have been able to serve as a distraction, as the dragon would've been able to ignore them entirely.

You are correct, an ancient dragon is likely to win against almost any combo. Still their odds would have to be better, even if they used the same strategy that worked against the devil. If the dragon ignores Durkon, he gets cursed and perhaps that increases V's chance of success with the prismatic spray. Bard song may help a little, too.

A party may still lose, but it is usually stronger than the sum of it's parts.

[Lord Vukodlak]

Wall of force isn't effected by an antimagic field(check the fields spell description) so I'm fairly sure forcecage is as well. Then again I'm fairly sure a 20 by 20ft cage wouldn't be large enough to contain an ancient black dragon.

So either way the dragon would be free to crush V

[Wanton Soup]

Woah! That is intense, and I can't see V getting out of this without some part of hir caving in seriously.

Theory: V's friends and maybe a few of the AC guys will turn up and save V.

Epiphay: Magic isn't everything. Any losses can be made up by having friends.

[Wanton Soup]

Oh crap. Poor V, more proof for him that magic is not all-powerful.

Not really.

Without the magic of Anti Magic Field, the dragon would be unable to persue.

[wzeller]

I think it's clear that the dragon is not here to kill V. When she showed up she had an obvious surprise round that she intentionally forfeited by inviting V to cast another Disintegrate instead of using it to blast V to bits. She could have killed V (or at least badly maimed V) before V even knew she was there.

Clearly, she wants something. And she's clearly got a personal grudge, too.

She's probably the mother of the other black dragon, and probably wants V dead. But before finishing off the kill, she's going to make an offer V can't refuse.

The irony will be that V is forced to partner with the dragon and will wish he'd partnered with Qarr when she had the chance. Qarr will probably try to tempt the dragon and will probably fail. In fact, the dragon might find a way to force Qarr and V to work together on something. (That would be even more ironic.)

Of course, the dragon will still eventually want V dead but before that chance comes V will get into the situation that causes the four words to be uttered and then the dragon won't have a chance.

Now let's find out how incredibly wrong I am on all fronts.

m

[[sWc]Konman]

haha, great comic. keep em coming giant.

[silvadel]

This reminds me of a player vs DM battle...

V Player: I want to ditch this party and finish up my spell research undisturbed

DM: The party is already split up 3 ways -- please reconsider.

V Player: Waves to party -- hello island...

DM: You are annoyed by an imp.

V Player: Try to get it to leave then once that is not working splatter it.

DM: Ancient Black Dragon

V Player: Youch -- I got it -- the perfect spell -- forcecage

DM: Um it has class levels -- antimagic....

V Player: That shouldnt work against my forecage

DM: Dragon grabs you and slams you into a mountain.

V Player: .....

[Morgan Wick]

Things look bad for V... could s/he say those Fated Four Words(tm) very soon, for much different "wrong reasons" than everyone has been expecting?

Hmm... maybe a line could be drawn from this dragon to Belkar somehow? Perhaps the dragon kills V, and V says the Fated Four Words to some deity AFTER s/he's dead.

[BurntOfferings]

Apparently imps can tell male and female dragons apart.

Why of course she's a girl dragon. She's just reeking of feminine beauty.


Wall of force isn't effected by an antimagic field(check the fields spell description) so I'm fairly sure forcecage is as well. Then again I'm fairly sure a 20 by 20ft cage wouldn't be large enough to contain an ancient black dragon.

Black dragons only grow to Gargantuan size, so even a great wyrm would fit inside a forcecage.

As a DM with a couple of rules lawyers in my group, this is exactly the kind of situation I try to avoid. Forcecage is higher level than wall of force, has a pricey material component, and is "similar to a wall of force spell". Antimagic field doesn't specifically mention forcecage as being unaffected, but doesn't really close the door to the possibility, either, and specifically mentions wall of force. I'm in the "forcecage is unaffected" camp, but I can understand how someone could think otherwise. Personally, as a player I wouldn't force the issue unless, for example, my character was suddenly buried under several tons of angry dragon. Oh wait....

:smallwink:

It's still a great and exciting strip, though.

[hamishspence]

Otiluke's Telekinetic sphere- is like forcecage but better. And isn't mentioned as immune to antimagic. So, unless one wants to retcon the Force spells that cage targets as all immune, I see no problem with Wall of Force being immune, but other Force spells, not.

[SpacemanSpif]

Not exactly. It's more like making a wall of matter out of energy. Of course, that's science, and science has to make sense.

I'd compare it most to using matter to create anti-matter. There's really no other way to do it, you know?

[Morgan Wick]

I think V fell into a trance and this is a dream just now.

This is surprisingly plausible, if a bit jerking-us-around too much.

Another possibility: the dragon is a deus ex machina that will lead V to Haley and Co.

Speaking of which, I have a new theory as to what happens when V meets Haley and Co: s/he finds out about Cloister, and we get cryptograms 2.0!

[fractal]

I don't think anyone has mentioned that the dragon's comment in the 7th panel is quite parallel to Vaarsuvius's observation following his/her defeat of the first black dragon.

http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0186.html
(paraphrased) "Fascinating. A dragon (which I have just killed) is just like a humanoid (which all of you are)."

http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0627.html
(paraphrased) "Fascinating. A humanoid (like you are) is pitiful in an anti-magic field, while a dragon (me) still rocks."

This is definitely a draconic response to Vaarsuvius's earlier bout of dragon-slaying. Probably the mother, as already observed.

[recluso]

IMO the difference of (non)immunity of force cage could have a reason: in contrast to the other spells it is a prison, not a defense.

[Person_Man]

Awesome.

My prediction for what happens:

While the Black Dragon gloats and explains exactly why he is about to kill V, our imp friend Quaar will somehow save V's life. I'm not exactly sure how, because antimagic field lasts 10 minutes per level and imps don't have any supernatural abilities that might help (unless he's some obscure type of demon that I don't know about - even then, V's Dimensional Anchor prevents him from fleeing with her). I'm guessing he strikes some sort of bargain, in which V performs a service for the dragon, and Quaar becomes V's Familiar (or NPC follower or whatnot). This sets up V as a potential antagonist, or for your standard hero goes bad but is then redeemed plot line.

[T-O-E]

Take that, V!


This reminds me of a player vs DM battle...

V Player: I want to ditch this party and finish up my spell research undisturbed

DM: The party is already split up 3 ways -- please reconsider.

V Player: Waves to party -- hello island...

DM: You are annoyed by an imp.

V Player: Try to get it to leave then once that is not working splatter it.

DM: Ancient Black Dragon

V Player: Youch -- I got it -- the perfect spell -- forcecage

DM: Um it has class levels -- antimagic....

V Player: That shouldnt work against my forecage

DM: Dragon grabs you and slams you into a mountain.

V Player: .....

I would sig this...

[Green Bean]

Hmm; reading through the archives, I just noticed this

*speculation*

#188

V: Draconic runes...indicate that the starmetal was brought to the cave by a dragon-though I do not believe it was the dragon you just killed.

Roy: A different dragon? What makes you think that?

V: The starmetal was enshrinedwell over a century ago, while this dragon was only a Young Adult.

Possible foreshadowing?

[SpacemanSpif]

Not exactly. It's more like making a wall of matter out of energy. Of course, that's science, and science has to make sense.

I'd compare it most to using matter to create anti-matter. There's really no other way to do it, you know?

[tremodian]

Yeah, one could argue that the dragon cheated but the AMF-immunity is not explicitly stated in the forcecage description like it is for prismatic wall relating to prismatic sphere.

http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/antimagicField.htm

http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/wallOfForce.htm

http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/forcecage.htm

http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/prismaticWall.htm

http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/prismaticSphere.htm

True but then mage's disjunction is not explicitly mentioned in the Force Cage description or the Antimagic field description but it is mentioned in the wall of force. But you would expect mage's disjunction to work ie eliminate a force cage. Also antimagic field is mentioned explicitly in the mage's disjunction description (1% chance per level to destroy it).

I think it is odd that it would specifically stop one and only one force effect spell and not others. There is some cross-checking needed and potential holes in the spell descriptions. The rules are vague at best and open to interpretation.

T.

[hamishspence]

There are lots of force effects- why then would it work on Magic Missile?

Maybe its just a matter of 3 defense spells, picked to be immune, for gaming purposes.

Prismatic Wall/Sphere aren't even force spells, and they are immune to it, but no other Prismatic spells can get through the field.

[Zack Norglad]

Nice comic in action means. The Dragon looks quite powerful...
I have a feeling that V will survive, and that #628 will continue with other characters... Team evil? Elan and Durkon?

Waiting for new one :smalltongue:

[TheBST]

Hmm; reading through the archives, I just noticed this

*speculation*

#188

V: Draconic runes...indicate that the starmetal was brought to the cave by a dragon-though I do not believe it was the dragon you just killed.

Roy: A different dragon? What makes you think that?

V: The starmetal was enshrinedwell over a century ago, while this dragon was only a Young Adult.

Possible foreshadowing?

This.

This is the answer.

Wow, that's some time Rich has waited to fire off that one.

[tremodian]

There are lots of force effects- why then would it work on Magic Missile?

Maybe its just a matter of 3 defense spells, picked to be immune, for gaming purposes.

Prismatic Wall/Sphere aren't even force spells, and they are immune to it, but no other Prismatic spells can get through the field.

Good point, had not thought of MM. For me it still seems a little odd.

T.

[hamishspence]

antimagic is always a little odd in handling. Because it only suppresses magic, and only within the area, and the actual effect works on either side of the area, you could have, say, a lightning bolt fired at target on far side, it would cut off, then reappear several feet further on, to strike target.

The magic is still there, its just "invisible" in a sense.

[Ave]

Wait a minute, the elves as a species were created by the gods, rather than evolving from an earlier species of ape. In our world, the idea that people were monkeys was triggered by the Theory of Evolution. This suggests dragons subscribe to that theory despite, presumably, lack of evidence to support it and verifiable evidence in favour of divine creation. Mind you, in our world, people can believe some ridiculous ****, so I shouldn't be surprised that dragon does.

In another case a red wizard of Thay calls people 'simian'. So, apparently this theory made it into fantasy too.

[hamishspence]

Going by Elder Evils and Lords of Madness, the deities might be lying a bit about the divine creation.

[Maltore]

Most people seem to interpret that last panel as V smashing down and the dragon doing a touch down / little victory dance on hir head, but to me it looks different. To me it looks like a cat playing with a helpless mouse. As in, the dragon flies down with V (if she doesn't, V leaves the AMF) and catches hir right before impact, effectually shielding V from the damage. The special effects (sound, rocks crumbling) are there because the dragon, a lousy flyer, can't pull up immediately and lands non-too-softly. The reason? She obviously wants to play mind games before revealing her intentions, for which I'm sure she wants V intact.

As for the entire Force Cage / Anti-Magic Field debate, that's just artistic licence. We all agree the dragon could've Desintegrated the cage, followed V into the air and then cast AMF the next round. Showing it that way would've required one or two extra panels that would've added nothing else to the story other than satisfying the rules lawyers among us, while adding X more time to the development, and thus the update time. For the sake of steady updates, hurray for the cage-suppressing AMF!

[Hectonkhyres]

Why is it that I am considering the possibility of V somehow mindswapping with this goddamn dragon through that spell (s)he has been working on? Why??

[Majorman]

The fastest update ever... I think. It must be my birthday.

Well, good thing is that I know V will survive that one. If I may refer to the Prediction, V should live long to achieve "ultimate arcane power" at least. Then, and only then the elf can die (yeah, twisted logic... much like the death of Dent in the "Hitchiker's Guide"). But then again, how many HPs does an elven mage have? V probably has a racial-based Con penalty...

[Shadic]

Most people seem to interpret that last panel as V smashing down and the dragon doing a touch down / little victory dance on hir head, but to me it looks different. To me it looks like a cat playing with a helpless mouse. As in, the dragon flies down with V (if she doesn't, V leaves the AMF) and catches hir right before impact, effectually shielding V from the damage. The special effects (sound, rocks crumbling) are there because the dragon, a lousy flyer, can't pull up immediately and lands non-too-softly. The reason? She obviously wants to play mind games before revealing her intentions, for which I'm sure she wants V intact.

To me, it actually looks like V is in the dragon's claws, and it slams Vaarsuvius into the rocks.

[xv bones]

All this about V's 'arrogance' catching up to her, good lord.

Remember that bit about how V ran like a coward, helpless to stop hundreds or thousands of soldiers from being slaughtered?

There were no less than three strips dedicated to that.

Including a really recent one, where V mentions that her mental state is being obliterated by her incessant internal recreation of that one event.

Arrogance my hinder, 'just desserts' that exact same mass of flesh. V's been tearing out her own mind for the past two hundred strips. What did you think was going to happen when she finally contacted Haley?

V was going to break down.

Lighten up. A dragon stomping on the poor androgyne's face isn't remotely near to what V did to herself, and will continue doing to herself until the moment she dies and rises as a Lich.

...which is kinda looking like an "any day now" situation...

[otakuryoga]

antimagic = dragon pwnzr in teh face!!!!

not looking good for the elf team here

[skyclad]

"V should not have left the group!"

What you need to realize is that even if he stayed that dragon would have kicked their asses.

[Brother Arthur]

Damn! I mean Boop!

I'm guessing that should have been a dimension door/teleport and not fly as an exit strategy.

[xv bones]

"V should not have left the group!"

What you need to realize is that even if he stayed that dragon would have kicked their asses.

More than that, she'd have obliterated everything that was left of Azure City's army, fleet and half the Order of the Stick.

It's traditionally been either V or a Dues ex Machina that saves the party's collective glutes from the really freaking huge monsters.

Elan vs. an ancient black with levels in Sorcerer and a probable CR of about 23?

Yes, that would end well.

[Scarblade]

Well, good thing is that I know V will survive that one. If I may refer to the Prediction, V should live long to achieve "ultimate arcane power" at least. Then, and only then the elf can die (yeah, twisted logic... much like the death of Dent in the "Hitchiker's Guide"). But then again, how many HPs does an elven mage have? V probably has a racial-based Con penalty...If I remember correctly the prediction was about how V could get ultimate arcane power.It didn't say anything about if he would ever get it.

[Rrhain]

Umm... doesn't antimagic field explicitly NOT affect wall of force (and hence Force Cage), prismatic spray or prismatic wall? Similarly Force Cage cannot be negated by an antimagic field, only disintegration, sphere of annihilation, rod of cancellation or mage's disjunction, right?

Indeed. Forcecage is not affected by antimagic. Not to mention the fact that an ancient black dragon would never fit inside a forcecage: The cage is only 20 feet on a side.

Dramatic license, I guess.

[EmeraldPhoenix]

OMG OMG! I just realised: That dragon isn't a mother or any of the other guesses- IT'S NORBERT! *Laughs at HP joke*

But seriously, now would be a good time for a cut-away. I'm dying to find out whether or not Durkon got the message.

[hamishspence]

those spells destroy forcecage, but, by strict RAW, walking up to one with an antimagic field on you will cause it to wink out while you are near it and reappear when you leave.

Only spells explicitly stated in antimagic field description, don't do this. And Forcecage isn't one of them.

[Raenir Salazar]

Indeed. Forcecage is not affected by antimagic. Not to mention the fact that an ancient black dragon would never fit inside a forcecage: The cage is only 20 feet on a side.

Dramatic license, I guess.

Metamagic feat, enlarge area.

[David Argall]

Very good. Strips coming out rapid fire. Now let's see...

Our writer is playing fast and loose with the D&D rules again. [The rules of funny and drama trump game rules.] Not at all his worst case, but the dragon really should not be able to cast anti-magic field [at least not without a little bit of help somewhere], and anti-magic field should not work against force cage.
Again the point is somewhat close, and you might convince your DM otherwise, but anti-magic field acknowledges itself useless vs wall of force, and FC is a more powerful and specialized form of WF. Now FC is not mentioned as immune, but there are unmentioned spells that are immune, and WF does not mention it is immune to AMF. [WF & FC seem to have just about identical language on such points.]



I think it's clear that the dragon is not here to kill V. When she showed up she had an obvious surprise round that she intentionally forfeited by inviting V to cast another Disintegrate instead of using it to blast V to bits.
This is covered by the rules of drama. The villain must pause to gloat/threaten/etc at any opportunity.



Clearly, she wants something. And she's clearly got a personal grudge, too.
It's not at all necessary that she want things. Now being a dragon, she undoubtedly reasons "Revenge is my sole motive. I will do all that is necessary to kill the killer of my beloved child and nothing will...how much gold did you say?", but all her actions to date amount to rubbing it in. V is to not just be killed, but to be humiliated and hurt.



You hope V gets out without killing the dragon?!? 8-)

And I didn't even know Optimist was available as a prestige class. How many levels have you got in it??
Probably not many, or even any. This is a story, and V's role in it is clearly not finished. Therefore she is going to survive this fight one way or another. Obviously killing the dragon by some contrived deus ex machina is a possibility.

on which point We still have Qarr alive and healing on the scene, and so the idea of some sort of rescue is in the air. This may involved some sort of teleport by the imp. But we look to be having Qarr getting at least some hook into V.

[Raenir Salazar]

More than that, she'd have obliterated everything that was left of Azure City's army, fleet and half the Order of the Stick.

It's traditionally been either V or a Dues ex Machina that saves the party's collective glutes from the really freaking huge monsters.

Elan vs. an ancient black with levels in Sorcerer and a probable CR of about 23?

Yes, that would end well.

Like I said, NEVER EVER DESTROY THE ARTIFACT.

Well in this case not quite, but the same logic applies, there are some actions that you should never just whimsically do just in case someone bigger and more powerful takes notice.

[Shadowbane]

OK. Dragon is officially as awesome as V. I really love the way Burlew is writing it.

"I am still a dragon."

YES!

[Twilight Jack]

Indeed. Forcecage is not affected by antimagic. Not to mention the fact that an ancient black dragon would never fit inside a forcecage: The cage is only 20 feet on a side.

Dramatic license, I guess.

Forcecage is not explicitly immune to antimagic, although said immunity is strongly implied by its stated similarity to wall of force. But, as we've seen before, the implied conclusions and common sense outcomes are often ignored in OotS to humorous consequence (like 1st & 2nd edition monsters not having any Will saves). Assuming V is able to speak next strip, we may well see h** comment on the fact that the forcecage should have remained up. To which the dragon will no doubt reply along the lines of, "Yeah, you'd think so, huh? Turns out it doesn't say so specifically. Should have read more carefully."

Also, an ancient black dragon is only Huge size. 15 ft. space. The barred version of forcecage works just fine.

[rman]

Seeing as how Lich's are unlikely to cast anti-magic fields at ground zero,
Force cage == Lich containment field.

V was prepared for the wrong foe.

Calvary expected as how does Durkon get to Haley? Someone in the fleet would be able to cast a spell to get a direction to V.

[xv bones]

"I accept your terms."

[Raenir Salazar]

In another case a red wizard of Thay calls people 'simian'. So, apparently this theory made it into fantasy too.

Remember that while Evolution is a fact for our world doesn't mean it is there, but incase it is for them (remember Dragons, Ilithids, and Aboleths are ancient creatures) some creaures may have long memories and or histories and KNOW that they USED to be Monkeys.

And also once more, remember its Oots they make Anachronistic smartass comments all the time.

[xv bones]

And also once more, remember its Oots they make Anachronistic smartass comments all the time.
This.

OOTS makes a habit of breaking the fourth wall, directly referencing the real world, alternate realities (DC comics, World of Warcraft) and most importantly... seriously, when an ancient black is chasing one of the principle leads, are the direct specifics of the insult directed at said principle immediately before an at-least-incapacitating-if-not-thoroughly-fatal attack really all that important?

[Da'Shain]

Black Dragon: My mom taught me Lizard, said it was important to understand other cultures." More suggestion that this one's that pile of ash's mom.

Great strip, BTW. I don't see why people are quibbling over the rules involved, though. A) Force Cage is not specifically stated to be immune to AMF, and B) The ONLY effect it would have had if Rich adhered to the "common sense" interpretation is to add one or two more panels where the dragon Disintegrates its way out of the cage and THEN casts AMF.

[Raenir Salazar]

Seeing as how Lich's are unlikely to cast anti-magic fields at ground zero,
Force cage == Lich containment field.

V was prepared for the wrong foe.

Calvary expected as how does Durkon get to Haley? Someone in the fleet would be able to cast a spell to get a direction to V.

On Persistent world servers i prepare my wizard with take-out-single-target spells like Bigby's, forcecage probly works just as well.

[teratorn]

Obviously killing the dragon by some contrived deus ex machina is a possibility.

Last time we had a skeleton de-undeaded by a falling dragon head. So this time we should have a dragon killed by a fallen skull.

[xv bones]

I disagree with the concept of this dragon killed by a convenient deus ex machina in any means.

It knows V's name, has done research on V, is by far stronger both physically and metaphysically and very, very clearly has a serious axe to grind.

this is not a nameless Death Knight conscripted simply because it looked a lot like Xylon.

This dragon is a Nemesis.

[teratorn]

It knows V's name, has done research on V, is by far stronger both physically and metaphysically and very, very clearly has a serious axe to grind.

Yeah, like a certain kobold against a defenceless Belkar.



this is not a nameless Death Knight conscripted simply because it looked a lot like Xylon.

This dragon is a Nemesis.
It's the third time this happens to V. We had lawyers, a falling zombie dragon head, I'm still waiting for something absurd.

[Kaytara]

Most people seem to interpret that last panel as V smashing down and the dragon doing a touch down / little victory dance on hir head,
I think you misinterpreted the way most people interpreted it. Vaarsuvius' puny 39 kg could hardly gain enough momentum in such a short fall to smash into the rocks like that. It's clear the dragon is active here.


but to me it looks different. To me it looks like a cat playing with a helpless mouse. As in, the dragon flies down with V (if she doesn't, V leaves the AMF) and catches hir right before impact, effectually shielding V from the damage. The special effects (sound, rocks crumbling) are there because the dragon, a lousy flyer, can't pull up immediately and lands non-too-softly. The reason? She obviously wants to play mind games before revealing her intentions, for which I'm sure she wants V intact.

Like Shadic, I rather thought that the dragon had actually grabbed V in mid-air only to slam him down on top of the cliff.
If you look at the last panel, you see the dragon's left paw squarely across V's chest and face, with V's red-sleeved arm dangling out. It's quite clear that Vaarsuvius is pinned underneath the dragon, which would not be the case if the dragon had just grabbed him and was crushing the cliff by setting down on it, like you suggested.

What I'm curious about is how the hell Vaarsuvius can survive something like that. :smallconfused: V is literally trapped between a rock and a hard place, with that hard place consisting of several tons worth of dragon.
I just know Vaarsuvius can't be dead yet because Qarr is still alive for a reason.

[dsavereide]

Assuming that V isn't dead yet, because he still has to fufuill the prophecy ...

<SPOLIER>
This is the dragon that originally put the starmetal in the cave. But she's not looking for revenge. She wants her starmetal back. Maybe revenge after. So she wants V alive to find out where it is and help get it back.
</SPOLIER>

[Doug Lampert]

Damn! I mean Boop!

I'm guessing that should have been a dimension door/teleport and not fly as an exit strategy.

V has bared conjuration and can't teleport or DD.


Indeed. Forcecage is not affected by antimagic. Not to mention the fact that an ancient black dragon would never fit inside a forcecage: The cage is only 20 feet on a side.

Dramatic license, I guess.
Wrong twice. Ancient black dragon is huge, 15' on a side, even a Great Wyrm black is only gargantuan and will STILL fit.

Antimagic works on everything except three spells and others so stated in their own descriptions. It tells you this. THERE IS NOTHING in forcecage or antimagic field that says anything more about the other.

RAW there's not even a good argument. Forcecage is similar to wall of force, but it isn't identical, and it isn't wall of force and force effects in general aren't able to ignore antimagic. It doesn't say it has all other properties as Wall of Force or is immune to everything wall of force is either of which would be EASIER to say than what they actually do.

Yet we have multiple posters saying WoF is immune to antimagic without giving any reason other than that the spells are similar, yes, and the similarities are listed and don't include AMF, live with it.

[Rrhain]

Otiluke's Telekinetic sphere- is like forcecage but better. And isn't mentioned as immune to antimagic. So, unless one wants to retcon the Force spells that cage targets as all immune, I see no problem with Wall of Force being immune, but other Force spells, not.

Ah, but Otiluke's Telekinetic Sphere essentially just adds weightlessness to Otiluke's Resilient Sphere which specifically says it can be brought down by a targeted Dispel Magic which cannot affect a Wall of Force.

Thus, assuming a sane DM (madness, I tell you, madness!) OTS would be brought down by an AMF.

A Forcecage, since it specifically references Wall of Force, should not be affected by an Antimagic Field.

The other issue is if the dragon would fit inside a Forcecage in the first place. It's only 20 feet on a side. An ancient black dragon is listed as Huge, which means its height or length is somewhere between 16 and 32 feet. Since Ancient is only one category down from Wyrm, which is listed as Gargantuan which is 32 to 64 feet, I would say that an ancient dragon would not fit in a Forcecage. A mature adult, probably since that's the first time they reach Huge size, but an ancient one? No.

[xv bones]

Yeah, like a certain kobold against a defenceless Belkar.

Throwaway joke, minor character child of a minor character whose sole purpose was to separate Belkar from Elan, not ever actually prove a genuine threat.


We had lawyers

Another throwaway joke, one that V specifically alluded to never returning.


a falling zombie dragon head

On a nameless villain that knew absolutely nothing about any character involved and whose tentative claim to "Nemesis" status was to have high magic resistances and high magic resistances alone.

V wouldn't even have been there to fight the Death Knight if she hadn't been knocked down off the wall.

This, on the other hand, (follow me, here) is an ancient black dragon with magical abilities beyond those of otherwise equal black dragons that has been actively hunting Vaarsuvius, after having gathered information about her.

Not a throwaway joke, not a plot device, not a gentle poke at the Wizards of the Coast.

A unique and extremely powerful entity with an assuredly complicated backstory who wishes to destroy a principle lead due to personal motivations.

I will place large sums of cash on "no deus ex machina.'

[Rrhain]

I'd compare it most to using matter to create anti-matter. There's really no other way to do it, you know?

But magnetic fields repel each other. You can easily use a magnetic field to repel a magnetic field. In fact, that's the reason why solid objects can't pass through each other: The electromagentic field of one object repels the electromagnetic field of the other.

[Da'Shain]

The other issue is if the dragon would fit inside a Forcecage in the first place. It's only 20 feet on a side. An ancient black dragon is listed as Huge, which means its height or length is somewhere between 16 and 32 feet. Since Ancient is only one category down from Wyrm, which is listed as Gargantuan which is 32 to 64 feet, I would say that an ancient dragon would not fit in a Forcecage. A mature adult, probably since that's the first time they reach Huge size, but an ancient one? No.The Dragon's tail is poking out through one of the gaps in the bars, and its neck and wings were drawn in towards its body by the casting of the spell. It's hunched up to fit inside the cage, which a creature with a length of 32 feet that is mostly neck and tail would be perfectly capable of doing.

[Rrhain]

There are lots of force effects- why then would it work on Magic Missile?

Maybe its just a matter of 3 defense spells, picked to be immune, for gaming purposes.

Prismatic Wall/Sphere aren't even force spells, and they are immune to it, but no other Prismatic spells can get through the field.

You just answered your own question: It isn't that antimagic is useless on force or prismatic magic. It's that the specificities of Wall of Force, Prismatic Wall, and Prismatic Sphere are such that they aren't affected by Antimagic Field.

[Bilbo27]

Speechless---Wow=---- speechless

[fluffybunny]

Ohhh, the matron dragon(-ess?) delivered such a smackdown on V!

THIS is why i keep reading Order of the Stick!
Such detail, such dialogue and such evil!

Thanks Rich for the awesome speedy updates!

[Emilinah Adams]

Why analyze it so much? This strip is loosely based on Ad&d. Give the author some creative license will ya... Man, you guys look over every panel for inconsistencies in what you think the rules of the world are. Well news flash- this isn't the WoTC's world its Rich Burlew's world where he can bend what you think are the rules anytime he feels like it. Deal with that. It was a good strip. Can't wait to read the next one. :)

[Rrhain]

Metamagic feat, enlarge area.

Then our friendly giant forgot to mention that. When a spell-caster casts an augmented spell, it gets mentioned in the casting words. V would have said, "Expanded Forcecage" (Enlarge is 4th edition which OOTS is not playing, and it extends range, not size.) That said, Expand Spell only adds 5 feet: An Expanded Forcecage is only 25 feet on a side. An ancient black dragon is more like 30 feet long...too big to fit inside, though I suppose a case could be made that if it curled up, it could fit (and the dragon is drawn as such.) Too, an Expanded spell takes up a slot one higher meaning V would need to be able to cast 8th level spells as Forcecage is 7th (perhaps V can).

Still, a Forcecage isn't affected by Antimagic Field.

Perhaps this is evidence of all this being a Dallas moment: Just another trance-dream of V's.

[xv bones]

Why analyze it so much? This strip is loosely based on Ad&d. Give the author some creative license will ya... Man, you guys look over every panel for inconsistencies in what you think the rules of the world are. Well news flash- this isn't the WoTC's world its Rich Burlew's world where he can bend what you think are the rules anytime he feels like it. Deal with that. It was a good strip. Can't wait to read the next one. :)

no offense at all and with all respect, you must be new here, and by 'here', i mean 'to the internet'.

endlessly debating pointless minutiae is the fuel the internet burns to continue to exist.

you should have seen the seven-thread cluster$@#& when Miko escaped from a Force Cage by tipping it over.

dear god, did the nerds rage over that.

[dogmac]

That is one mega-cool dragon.

I don't believe that V is dead. I think the dragon is just making a very good point. I can imagine some crevaces in which V has hidden, being deliberately put there by the dragon.

[Carnivorous_Bea]

All this about V's 'arrogance' catching up to her, good lord.

Remember that bit about how V ran like a coward, helpless to stop hundreds or thousands of soldiers from being slaughtered?



Yes, the stuff about V's arrogance catching up to him is just basically absurd.

He risked his life in the battle, attacking two titanium golems with only a couple of mooks to help him, then cast every single spell except invisibility, and finally used that to retreat when he was out of spells -- after all, there was no reason for him to commit suicide, and he was useless after running out of spells.

Now, for several months, he's been so wracked by guilt over being unable to save or even help some of the retreating soldiers that he can't sleep, literally, and has been frantically trying to contact Haley and Belkar, whom he also feels guilty over leaving behind.

And you're saying that he deserves to be mashed by a dragon for his arrogance, people? Come on! :smallannoyed:

It's like someone who's been working 22 hours a day literally for weeks to try to pay someone else's medical bills, and then they get hit by a truck, and you gloat because they 'got what's coming to them'? :smallconfused:

If V was displaying arrogance, he'd be sitting back on the ships, well-rested, well-fed, and saying something like, "well, those fools had no magical power, so I'm not losing any sleep over their deaths, or worrying where Haley, that inferior being with no spells, is. Pass me the caviar, flunkey."

[Sethek]

Sorry to disappoint those fascinated with wild theories.
V is dead by now - as a doorknob.

Being slammed into the ground by the full force of an ancient black dragon IS lethal. And if you look at the last panel closely, you see V's hair well underneath the dragon claws. He/she hit the ground head first with enough force to sunder rock, inside an anti-magic zone which would render things like Stoneskin or Iron Body useless.

The only reason you cannot see the X in his/her eyes is because they are covered by dragon claws.

C'mon, look at that picture closely - it IS pretty obvious. That's it. Killing off a main character at short notice, without built up tension and stuff, has been done by writers many times before. It helps to illustrate just how dangerous that imaginary world the characters live in really is. Heck, even GMs do that to now and then remind players that they don't survive everything.

Baseline, as sad as it may be: For now, V is a goner.

[xv bones]

Yes, the stuff about V's arrogance catching up to him is just basically absurd.

.....

If V was displaying arrogance, he'd be sitting back on the ships, well-rested, well-fed, and saying something like, "well, those fools had no magical power, so I'm not losing any sleep over their deaths, or worrying where Haley, that inferior being with no spells, is. Pass me the caviar, flunkey."

for seriously.

There is a very strong difference between "mental stress tearing one's soul apart and making one extremely unpleasant to be around" and "arrogance."

besides which, 'arrogance' is practically a wizard Class Requirement.
Name me one wizard that is actually powerful and accomplished (as opposed to a comedy bumbling fool) and yet humble in any lore of any author, and I will eat my own pants.

(Rincewind and Schmendrick, by the way, fall into the "Comedy Bumbling Fool" category, before they're mentioned)

[Luircin]

You hope V gets out without killing the dragon?!? 8-)

And I didn't even know Optimist was available as a prestige class. How many levels have you got in it??

1, but I violated its code of conduct after I took those 5 levels of Cynic.

I more meant, "I hope that whatever saves V, if anything, leaves the dragon alive. She (the dragon, that is) is awesome."

[Da'Shain]

An Expanded Forcecage is only 25 feet on a side. An ancient black dragon is more like 30 feet long...too big to fit inside, though I suppose a case could be made that if it curled up, it could fit (and the dragon is drawn as such.) Too, an Expanded spell takes up a slot one higher meaning V would need to be able to cast 8th level spells as Forcecage is 7th (perhaps V can)."A case could be made"? The dragon, as drawn, is at least two-thirds neck and tail. Even if it is 36 feet long, that means having its neck and tail compressed near its body brings it down below 20 feet nicely. And it is shown to barely fit, with its body pressing against the edges and part of the length of its tail poking out through the bars.


Still, a Forcecage isn't affected by Antimagic Field.RAW can go either way. As explicity written, a Forcecage is affected.


Sorry to disappoint those fascinated with wild theories.
V is dead by now - as a doorknob.

Being slammed into the ground by the full force of an ancient black dragon IS lethal. And if you look at the last panel closely, you see V's hair well underneath the dragon claws. He/she hit the ground head first with enough force to sunder rock, inside an anti-magic zone which would render things like Stoneskin or Iron Body useless.

The only reason you cannot see the X in his/her eyes is because they are covered by dragon claws.It could go either way. Being hit with multiple arrows or sword swings is more than enough to kill a normal human, but in D&D mechanics characters higher than level one or two have enough HP to survive many things that should kill them regardless of experience.

[EtherealStrife]

I more meant, "I hope that whatever saves V, if anything, leaves the dragon alive. She (the dragon, that is) is awesome."

Ditto that.

Here's hoping V's new familiar helpful assistant has a res scroll and sufficient umd skill. And doesn't get himself killed before the dragon is done. And there's enough left of V to res.
Optimism, Captain!

EDIT: Scratch familiar. Otherwise he wouldn't stick around after V died.

[Tobimaro]

Ouch. This is not going well for V. And anti-magic fields are a pain, unless it is on your side. I remember a D&D game where our party was getting its collective a**** handed to us. We worked hard to win the fight, mainly via a convenient anti-magic field cast by our arcane caster (wizard/fatespinner who shaped it so that she was not in the effect). Then our justicar came up and grappled the enemy wizard, thus ending the threat.

Unless some miracle cavalry comes along, V is screwed.


well.. here's hoping that V has contingency with a teleport or similar escape spell cast (contingency is an evokation as far as i recall) and the dragon will throw V out of the anti-magic field, before killing her.

and Auch... first Belkar, now V seems to be forced into character development and recognizing the use of friends. I'm sure V now blames Cerebus like Haley in strip 242 :D

V can't do this. One of the schools barred to V is conjuration, which includes teleport. And it also includes dimension door. But then again, unless the wizard plans, anti-magic fields are their worst enemies.

[Woodsman]

Has anyone remembered the Oracle's answer to Belkar's question?

V is the only one still alive (well, sort of, as mentioned earlier since Windstriker is stuck in the Celestial Realms) that Belkar asked about. The mental stress over trying to find Haley and Belkar is what drove V to Fly to that deserted island with no help around what-soever.

So, I'm willing to bet V's going to be out of action for a while. Unless Qarr comes up with something or manages to summon another devil.

[Rotipher]

Name me one wizard that is actually powerful and accomplished (as opposed to a comedy bumbling fool) and yet humble in any lore of any author, and I will eat my own pants.


Well, Albus Dumbledore didn't exactly demand the red carpet treatment from people....

[GoC]

About time V got what hir deserves for leaving Durkon, Elan and crew... Solo wizards last about as long as a wet noodle no matter the level.

Level 21+time=wizard makes party irrelevant.

[xv bones]

Well, Albus Dumbledore didn't exactly demand the red carpet treatment from people....

No, but he did bend, break or thoroughly ignore his own rules on behalf of exactly one of his students, and... and...

.... goddamn it hang on, eating my pants

stupid pants :(

stupid rowling :(

(can i get out of this by pointing out that Harry himself is unbelievably arrogant, or ca-hmmblblggggffgphhfrnm.)

[Selene]

V is so screwed.

*hands xv salt for his pants*

[JonahFalcon]

Keep in mind, it's an ANCIENT black dragon, which practically makes it a reptilian demigod.

[JonahFalcon]

Level 21+time=wizard makes party irrelevant.

Tragedy+time=comedy

[xv bones]

Sorry to disappoint those fascinated with wild theories.
V is dead by now - as a doorknob.

Not likely.

Immediate foreshadowing from last strip: "It would take a great deal more than a handful of misplaced acquaintances before I would consider allying myself with the... forces... of..." *DRAGONED*

Also, V is going through a significant storyloop of her own, ending it with a sudden killing is out of mr. Burlew's style.

Far, far more likely, those four words:

"I accept your terms!"




V is so screwed.

*hands xv salt for his pants*

mrrrglefmmmphwump.

ffn'koo

[Woodsman]

I would like to point out that the Antimagic field was likely that dragon's only 6th level spell, as an ancient black dragon only gets one such spell per day. of course, the dragon herself mentions its more into magic than most dragons, so this could say something.

The eyes say something as well. They're red. The dragon earlier defeated had green eyes. (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0181.html)

There is also the fact the dragon never mentioned it was a dragon. It simply mentioned it was more into the arcane arts than its kind. It could easily be of another race.

Of course, with Burlew's new rules for polymorphing/shape-changing, it may not be.

[JonahFalcon]

Sorry to disappoint those fascinated with wild theories.
V is dead by now - as a doorknob.

Being slammed into the ground by the full force of an ancient black dragon IS lethal.

Getting punched by Superman with full force would be lethal, too. You're making the assumption the dragon wants to kill V.

[Rrhain]

"A case could be made"? The dragon, as drawn, is at least two-thirds neck and tail. Even if it is 36 feet long, that means having its neck and tail compressed near its body brings it down below 20 feet nicely. And it is shown to barely fit, with its body pressing against the edges and part of the length of its tail poking out through the bars.

Indeed, but only because of dramatic license.

"Creatures within the area are caught and contained unless they are too big to fit inside, in which case the spell automatically fails."

The dragon was not curled up when it attacked V, so it would not have fit in the Forcecage when it was cast. Note that the tail of the dragon is sticking out of the cage. Ergo, the dragon cannot fit within the cage and thus it would automatically fail.

But again, dramatic license. The plot requires that V make an attempt that seems to work but doesn't at which point V realizes that now is the time to run away except that doesn't work, either. The specifics don't really matter. It's just that the one chosen can't work given the expectations of the "We're in 3.5 D&D World" paradigm.


RAW can go either way. As explicity written, a Forcecage is affected.

Incorrect. For Antimagic Field:

"Certain spells, such as wall of force, prismatic sphere, and prismatic wall, remain unaffected by antimagic field (see the individual spell descriptions)."

"Certain spells, such as..." is not indicative of an exhaustive list.

For Wall of Force:

"The wall cannot move, it is immune to damage of all kinds, and it is unaffected by most spells, including dispel magic. However, disintegrate immediately destroys it, as does a rod of cancellation, a sphere of annihilation, or a mage’s disjunction spell. Breath weapons and spells cannot pass through the wall in either direction, although dimension door, teleport, and similar effects can bypass the barrier. It blocks ethereal creatures as well as material ones (though ethereal creatures can usually get around the wall by floating under or over it through material floors and ceilings). Gaze attacks can operate through a wall of force."

No mention is made of Antimagic Field, only that "it is unaffected by most spells."

Since Forcecage specifically indicates that it is derived from Wall of Force:

"Like a wall of force spell, a forcecage resists dispel magic, but it is vulnerable to a disintegrate spell, and it can be destroyed by a sphere of annihilation or a rod of cancellation."

[emphasis added]

Then claims that because Forcecage doesn't specifically mention it being impervious to Antimagic Field is disingenuousness at best.

Since a Forcecage is specifically described as being "like a wall of force," then it shares the same strengths and vulnerabilities. In fact, one version of the Forcecage is to create a cube made of Walls of Force:

"Windowless Cell: This version of the spell produces a 10-foot cube with no way in and no way out. Solid walls of force form its six sides."

Look, I detest player rules-lawyering just as much as the next guy ("But a curled up ancient dragon could fit in a 20x20 cube!") but I also despise DM rules-lawyering. If the tiger was declawed by the player in a way the DM didn't anticipate, then the player gets away with it.

[Woodsman]

Like something and being something are two totally different things.

[Wolfram]

Getting punched by Superman with full force would be lethal, too. You're making the assumption the dragon wants to kill V.

Immedeatly.

/Jonah, I remeber you from RATMM...

[Ronnoc]

I'm suprised that so many people expect Qarr to save V. given Qarr's rule of sucking up to the most powerful being around and his statementthat he wouldn't have gone to V if he knew a dragon, the only case I could see Qarr helping V is if V defeats the dragon. Also V just stated that he would not risk eternal damnation, for an advantage in this mortal plane. Unless the dragon starts talking about soul binding V I see no reason why V would suddenly seek Qarr's help.

[Woodsman]

V said he would not risk eternal damnation for fleeting dominance in this mortal coil.

Meaning that while V is alive, he's not going for political power.

[Rrhain]

Wrong twice. Ancient black dragon is huge, 15' on a side, even a Great Wyrm black is only gargantuan and will STILL fit.

Wrong thrice.

An ancient black dragon is Huge, but Huge is 16 to 32 feet. An ancient dragon is only one molting away from wyrm, which goes to Gargantuan which is 32 to 64 feet.

Thus, a mature adult dragon, which is newly Huge, would be closer to 16 feet. An old dragon should be about 20 feet, a very old dragon about 25, and an ancient dragon about 30 feet.

Too big to fit inside a Forcecage, even an Expanded Forcecage (which wasn't what was cast).


Antimagic works on everything except three spells and others so stated in their own descriptions.

Incorrect. Antimagic merely says, "Certain spells, such as..." and lists WoF, PS, and PW. It is not an exhaustive list. Wall of Force, in its description, does not mention that it is unaffected by Antimagic Field. It simply states that is unaffected by most spells and then states what spells and magic items will bring it down.

Forcecage specifically states that it is like a Wall of Force and uses the same language, that is is not affected by Dispel Magic but will be brought down by Disintegrate, a Rod of Cancellation, or a Sphere of Annihilation.

So if Forcecage is "like a Wall of Force," then it has the same strengths and weaknesses as a Wall of Force, including immunity to Antimagic Field.


It tells you this. THERE IS NOTHING in forcecage or antimagic field that says anything more about the other.

Incorrect. Forcecage specifically states that it is "like a Wall of Force." The specific description of how to bring it down is the same as for a Wall of Force. Ergo, it is naught but a fancy version of Wall of Force and has the same strengths and weaknesses.

Antimagic Field does not indicate that the list of spells it is ineffective against is exhaustive.


RAW there's not even a good argument. Forcecage is similar to wall of force, but it isn't identical,

Indeed. It is more powerful. A Wall of Force only gives you a single flat surface. Forcecage can give you a cube: 10x10 if you want it solid, 20x20 if you allow gaps in the field. Since it specifically states it is "like a Wall of Force spell," then it has the same strengths and weaknesses.


and it isn't wall of force and force effects in general aren't able to ignore antimagic.

I never said force effects in general ignore antimagic. I am saying that Forcecage, specifically because it is described as being "like a Wall of Force," has the same strengths and weaknesses as a Wall of Force: Immunity to Antimagic Field.


It doesn't say it has all other properties as Wall of Force

It doesn't have to, and yet it does. It is explicitly described as being "like a Wall of Force" and even goes so far as to give the same description of it being immune to Dispel Magic and requires Disintegrate, a Rod of Cancellation, or a Sphere of Annihilation to bring down.


or is immune to everything wall of force is either of which would be EASIER to say than what they actually do.

You mean "like a Wall of Force spell" isn't actually indicative of it being "like a Wall of Force spell"?

[Simanos]

Yes, yes it should. Fixed now. (I left the dash in to make it easier to read.)
I really really wish you could do that to the SRD and the official books.
I prefer anti-magic to antimagic. The spell-checker agrees too :smallcool:

[Rrhain]

The Dragon's tail is poking out through one of the gaps in the bars, and its neck and wings were drawn in towards its body by the casting of the spell. It's hunched up to fit inside the cage, which a creature with a length of 32 feet that is mostly neck and tail would be perfectly capable of doing.

Ah, but Forcecage specifically states that if the creature cannot fit in the cage, the spell automatically fails. If the tail is sticking out, then it cannot fit in the cage and thus the spell would automatically fail. It is a bit much to think that the dragon collapsed its wings and hunkered its neck down. The gaps in the cage version of Forcecage are only half an inch in size. There's no way an ancient dragon's tail is going to fit through them. And, since Forcecage is "like a Wall of Force," anything that penetrates the force will make it collapse.

Look, I get the dramatic license. But this particular rendition of the plot device was sloppy. V's Forcecage should have automatically failed and the dragon's Antimagic Field should also have failed to bring it down. But, the two failures together bring us right back to where we needed to be: V at the mercy of the dragon.

[Wonton]

On a mostly irrelevant note, I didn't see V throw "ruby dust worth 1,500 gp" into the air for his/her Forcecage, but that's probably something Rich houseruled out. :P

[Rrhain]

Name me one wizard that is actually powerful and accomplished (as opposed to a comedy bumbling fool) and yet humble in any lore of any author, and I will eat my own pants.

Ponder Stibbons.

[Rrhain]

Like something and being something are two totally different things.

True, and if Forcecage were "exactly like" Wall of Force, well, it wouldn't be a cage, now would it? A Wall of Force only gives you a single flat surface. Forcecage gives you six arranged in a cube. That's why it's a higher level spell (7 versus 5).

Since Antimagic Field does not claim its list is exhaustive but states otherwise, since Forcecage claims it is "like a Wall of Force," since the description of how to bring down a Forcecage is the same as that of Wall of Force, it is naught but DM rules-lawyering to claim that a Forcecage is affected by Antimagic Field. "Wah! My player figured out how to neutralize my big baddie! I didn't think of that!"

But since the Forcecage shouldn't have worked in the first place (an ancient dragon is too big to fit), we're back to where we should have been: V at the mercy of the dragon.

[Dausuul]

Why analyze it so much? This strip is loosely based on Ad&d. Give the author some creative license will ya... Man, you guys look over every panel for inconsistencies in what you think the rules of the world are. Well news flash- this isn't the WoTC's world its Rich Burlew's world where he can bend what you think are the rules anytime he feels like it. Deal with that. It was a good strip. Can't wait to read the next one. :)

You're missing the point. Debating and analyzing the way the game-rules interact with the comic strip is part of the fun for some of us. I for one enjoy considering how an ancient black dragon could be made, under the rules, to cast 6th-level spells, or arguing over whether forcecage trumps anti-magic field (if I were asked to rule on the matter as a DM, I would have to give forcecage the win, but a good rules lawyer could make a case either way).


Look, I get the dramatic license. But this particular rendition of the plot device was sloppy. V's Forcecage should have automatically failed and the dragon's Antimagic Field should also have failed to bring it down. But, the two failures together bring us right back to where we needed to be: V at the mercy of the dragon.

An ancient black dragon is Huge. Under the rules, a Huge-sized creature is a 15-foot cube. This is both rules as written and rules as intended (a deliberate simplification for ease of play). Hence, by the rules, the dragon fits.

You can argue that the rules ought to be waived in this instance for greater realism, but that would hardly be in keeping with the traditions of OotS.

[xv bones]

Ponder Stibbons.

Stibbons has never shown any magical ability of his own - it's Hex that does all the magic work. Ponder is more or less a magitech nerd - and when in any conversation about how Hex works, he gets pretty arrogant, much like any computer nerd confronted with an employer who has no idea which button makes the computer do stuff.

And I've already eaten my damn pants over goddamned stupid grandfatherly Dumbledore.

[Doopliss]

If the tail is sticking out, then it cannot fit in the cage and thus the spell would automatically fail.Just because it isn't fitting in the cage doesn't mean it can't fit in the cage. The angle of the tail strongly suggests to me that it could fit just fine, and it would curl up on the inside if it merely didn't make the second curve in its shape. Similarly, 30 feet long is fine and good for a statue, but dragons can bend. A 6-foot tall human can still fit in a 4-foot by 4-foot area with little trouble, and the dragon in the comic is definitely not taking up as much "length" space in the cage as it would stretched out.

[Simanos]

An ancient black dragon is Huge, but Huge is 16 to 32 feet. An ancient dragon is only one molting away from wyrm, which goes to Gargantuan which is 32 to 64 feet.

Thus, a mature adult dragon, which is newly Huge, would be closer to 16 feet. An old dragon should be about 20 feet, a very old dragon about 25, and an ancient dragon about 30 feet.

Too big to fit inside a Forcecage, even an Expanded Forcecage (which wasn't what was cast).
I think they are talking about how many squares a creature takes up in a grid, not exact measurements.
I think a grid number is more useful too.
I agree with you on the AMF Vs Forcecage though.

[Da'Shain]

Indeed, but only because of dramatic license.

"Creatures within the area are caught and contained unless they are too big to fit inside, in which case the spell automatically fails."

The dragon was not curled up when it attacked V, so it would not have fit in the Forcecage when it was cast. Note that the tail of the dragon is sticking out of the cage. Ergo, the dragon cannot fit within the cage and thus it would automatically fail.Yes, but the phrase "unless they are too big to fit inside" can just as easily mean "too big to fit inside an enclosed 20' x 20' space under any circumstances" as "too big to fit inside an enclosed 20' x 20' space because of its position at the moment". RAW again supports either conclusion, and I would actually lean towards the first interpretation, since the second one adds another criterion.




Incorrect. For Antimagic Field:

"Certain spells, such as wall of force, prismatic sphere, and prismatic wall, remain unaffected by antimagic field (see the individual spell descriptions)."

"Certain spells, such as..." is not indicative of an exhaustive list.True, but it also doesn't mean that a specific spell is immune to its effects simply because it's not on the list. It also says to "see the individual spell descriptions", which again opens it up to debate because not only does it not state clearly in the description of Forcecage whether it works inside an AMF, it also does not state this clearly in any of the spell descriptions of the SRD for the three spells that AMF specifically does mention.


For Wall of Force:

No mention is made of Antimagic Field, only that "it is unaffected by most spells."Again, leaving it open to debate. The only reason Wall of Force is recognized as working is because it is specifically mentioned to work inside of an AMF.


Since Forcecage specifically indicates that it is derived from Wall of Force:

"Like a wall of force spell, a forcecage resists dispel magic, but it is vulnerable to a disintegrate spell, and it can be destroyed by a sphere of annihilation or a rod of cancellation."

[emphasis added]

Then claims that because Forcecage doesn't specifically mention it being impervious to Antimagic Field is disingenuousness at best.
The emphasis merely has to be moved to the word "like" for you to see why this does not necessarily support Forcecage as having all of the same attributes as Wall of Force. Changing this word from "like" to "identical to" would have been simple, if that was the intention. But the word "like" means "similar to", not "identical to", and arguments that it should not be interpreted to mean something it does not are perfectly valid.


Since a Forcecage is specifically described as being "like a wall of force," then it shares the same strengths and vulnerabilities.This can't be assumed, because the word "like" does not allow for it to be. Again, you're following an interpretation which is not at all universal.


In fact, one version of the Forcecage is to create a cube made of Walls of Force:

"Windowless Cell: This version of the spell produces a 10-foot cube with no way in and no way out. Solid walls of force form its six sides."

Look, I detest player rules-lawyering just as much as the next guy ("But a curled up ancient dragon could fit in a 20x20 cube!") but I also despise DM rules-lawyering. If the tiger was declawed by the player in a way the DM didn't anticipate, then the player gets away with it.To be honest, you're doing just as much rules-lawyering as anyone else. You're insisting on your own interpretation of the spell and arguing its validity above all others, when it's perfectly valid for others to disagree based on the RAW.

By the way, your two instances of rules-lawyering both happened in the same comic. If you want to view it that way, then think about it like this: V's player came up with some cheese to get the Forcecage past his DM, and the DM couldn't come up with an argument that actually put the player's idea to rest. So he let the player get away with it, and then, perfectly legally, broke through it with another instance of cheese that is supported by RAW.

Quid pro quo, in other words.

[Raenir Salazar]

Sorry to disappoint those fascinated with wild theories.
V is dead by now - as a doorknob.

Being slammed into the ground by the full force of an ancient black dragon IS lethal. And if you look at the last panel closely, you see V's hair well underneath the dragon claws. He/she hit the ground head first with enough force to sunder rock, inside an anti-magic zone which would render things like Stoneskin or Iron Body useless.

The only reason you cannot see the X in his/her eyes is because they are covered by dragon claws.

C'mon, look at that picture closely - it IS pretty obvious. That's it. Killing off a main character at short notice, without built up tension and stuff, has been done by writers many times before. It helps to illustrate just how dangerous that imaginary world the characters live in really is. Heck, even GMs do that to now and then remind players that they don't survive everything.

Baseline, as sad as it may be: For now, V is a goner.

I think someone already earlier on calculated how much damage done to V unless hes using instant death with damage based on size...

V should have barring +Con/HP items should have between 54 and 84 hp.

How much damage does reflex save against acid breath + headbash do?

[Raenir Salazar]

BTW LAWS OF PHYSICS PEOPLE.

Two objects regardless of mass will fall at the same speed, the dragon only has bad to okay maneuverability, Ild hazard a geuss it didnt have enough room to propel V into the ground with added force but most likely simply landed on V. (with enough force to crack the ground but V is a little hard headed eh?)

[Zeful]

"Like a wall of force spell, a forcecage resists dispel magic, but it is vulnerable to a disintegrate spell, and it can be destroyed by a sphere of annihilation or a rod of cancellation."
You are aware that the commas in the sentence do not automatically separate them from the parent sentence? Which means the entire sentence can be taken as a whole. Under that assumption the entire sentence lists the ways in which Forcecage is similar to Wall of Force and is an exhaustive list. As there is no mention of a special relation to AMF, then there is none. It is suppressed as normal. There is no definitive RAW answer.

[Prak]

Wow, so is V now Level 17? I saw him cast 7 spells of level 6 or higher (4x disintegrate, forcecage, bugsbys hand and prismatic spray)


No, V is probably level 14. Don't forget bonus spells from Intelligence and specialization.
s/he'd have to have a 24/29 int, but yes, s/he's likely lv. 14, 24/5 isn't too much of a stretch. More likely than 13 with a 32/33 Int, or lv. 17, which are about the only other other mixes that work out easily.

ok, I forgot about bonus spells for specialization.


Honestly, the phrase "you are as skilled as my information has led me to believe." Suggests to me that there is something going on here besides revenge, indeed, this is the the way Evil potential employers seem to talk before offering a job, or while testing an opponents skill for other reasons.
Come to think of it, the dragon could be Mommy but rather than seeking revenge (or revenge alone), she's looking to replace the asset she lost when her son was killed, which is actually quite in keeping with standard portrayals of evil dragons.


Wait a minute, the elves as a species were created by the gods, rather than evolving from an earlier species of ape. In our world, the idea that people were monkeys was triggered by the Theory of Evolution. This suggests dragons subscribe to that theory despite, presumably, lack of evidence to support it and verifiable evidence in favour of divine creation. Mind you, in our world, people can believe some ridiculous ****, so I shouldn't be surprised that dragon does.
No, it's just that "monkey" "ape" and so on are common in-character insults used by non-humans on humans, and in some cases, non-humanoids against humanoids, owing to the fact that humans (and possibly elves, and so forth) are primates and resemble monkeys, minus tails, especially to giant scaly monsters who we commonly associate with things such as crocodiles.

[Nightmarenny]

God, I hate this. Why is it that when someone has a debate about whether something can work in-comic everyone jumps on the Its-only-a-story-lala-train-of-delusion? As well as I remember the giant has never really broken DnD rules. At most playing them for literal and intentionally missing the spirit or making a forgot the rules joke. Even the famed Thor-control weather debacle isn't really out of bounds as it is something that often happens around a table, Divine intervention.

This particular event can be argued either way because neither spell is crystal-clear. It is then left to the DM to interpret. This is a house-rule plain and simple. The people who say this wouldn't work in their campaign are right and so is the comic. That's how DnD goes sometimes. Look the guy writing this bothered to write and detail a fight that we didn't even see to make sure it would work, this story does care about the rules, stop acting like is doesn't.

[Assassin89]

Looks like the rules of magic are in conjunction with probability in servicing drama.

[Weiser_Cain]

Yah! (I forget how that's spelled) I don't know where the strip is going!

[Nightmarenny]

Looks like the rules of magic are in conjunction with probability in servicing drama.

Or maybe the rules of magic are followed completely here and this is just difference in opinion? Why do you have to go for the Everything happens 'cause it makes for good story idea? There were plenty of other spells each could have used. No one even suspected she had a force cage. This happened because Giant saw nothing wrong with it.

[Sethis]

And this is why my wizards always have a Contingency spell active which states "If an antimagic field gets withing 20 feet of me..." then triggers a teleport.

Usually the FIRST contingency.

There are other ways around it too, like using instantaneous conjurations. Wall of Stone for example. Or Orb spells.

[KilltheToy]

This is bad. This is really, really bad :smalleek:.

As I'm sure has already been pointed out, Anti-magic field has a duration of 10 minutes per caster level. Considering this is a dragon, and one with an intrest in the arcane arts no less, I'd say :vaarsuvius: is pretty much screwed :smallfrown:.

Vaarsuvius' death=DO NOT WANT!

[Nightmarenny]

This is bad. This is really, really bad :smalleek:.

As I'm sure has already been pointed out, Anti-magic field has a duration of 10 minutes per caster level. Considering this is a dragon, and one with an intrest in the arcane arts no less, I'd say :vaarsuvius: is pretty much screwed :smallfrown:.

Vaarsuvius' death=DO NOT WANT!

Only it the dragon were to get off a full attack next round. Which requires that the imp do nothing, which I doubt and the black dragon wanting V dead, which he probably, but not definitely does. Roy's death was a shock because it was sudden and powerful. You can't assume that will come along every tough spot. Especially against some no-name.

[Koretsu]

Phantom post, I know. I just wanted to say I loved this comic. Perfect Dragon-esc attitude. :D

Also, for no reason what so ever, my mind has permanently associated this particular dragon with being voiced by George Takei. :smalleek:

[Finwe]

Yeah, like a certain kobold against a defenceless Belkar.


It's the third time this happens to V. We had lawyers, a falling zombie dragon head, I'm still waiting for something absurd.

(Paladin Blues bonus strip spoiler)
Dragon:"Foolish elf, did you really think you could get away with murdering the son of the great dragon *gurk*"

:vaarsuvius: "*Gurk* is not a draconic name that I am familiar with...

Quarr: "Wohoo! Triple natural 20's"

[gambler628]

Okay, so i went and read though the entire thread and i don't think that i saw anybody list this possibility, so bear with me please

In OOTS, we have had some major growth in most of the characters, or in Belkar's case fake character growth.

But in V's case we haven't really had any at all.

In order to get some (most) of Elan's growth, he was cut of from the rest of the group in Cliffport and had to travel back to save the day. Most of his character growth was spurred by a mentor.

Now don't shoot me if i'm wrong, but it could be that the dragon is a good, and by good i mean neutral, black dragon that is looking for someone to teach. Apparently what V needs to learn is that magic can't solve everything, and this dragon would be the perfect teacher to help with that. Maybe anither prestige class with come out from this mess that V is in

*rolls for reflex safe*

[Flickerdart]

Guys, guys, guys.

The real issue is not the Forcecage VS Antimagic Field thing. It's that Rich's plan to torment us is perfectly primed. The last few days, he's been updating incredibly often, leading up th V's possible death, with the last strip sparking up an enormous argument that even got a guy banned.

This is the perfect time to end the update streak! With us already having so much to chew on, Rich is going to abandon us to the mercy of time while the people that don't care whether or not Forcecage beats AMF agonize over the fate of the most awesome character in the strip.

So, yeah. EVERYBODY PANIC!

[gjp]

wow..... just.. wow...



this got interesting really fast...


on a side note: way to go Rich.. I'm def. impressed with narrative techniques and all that good stuff.. way to keep me glued to a web comic.. seriously.. only one I ever read..

[zach12376]

NOOOOOOOOOO!!!!! V! Crap, how is s/he going to get out of this one?

I am dying here Rich! GIVE US THE ANSWER!!!!!!

[Valheru]

This reminds me of a game I ran once. There was this beholder, who was camped out at the small end of a cone shaped room. (Ironically the same size as his anti-magic gaze). Behind him was a bunch of henchmen and lackeys. Right in front of him was a wall of force, completely blocking end of the room. The beholder would open his anti-magic eye, let his lackeys into the room, and let them battle it out with the PC's (Without Magic). When the PC's eventually defeated all the lackeys, the beholder closed his anti-magic eye, the wall of force would spring up, and the PC's would be treated to his bellowing laugh as he wandered away.

[Axl_Rose]

V's friggin awesome, and is one of my favourite characters. Admittedly I have liked him/her less so lately, and so, like many others have expressed before me, I find myself rooting for the Dragon.

Sadly, she will probably be killed soon, or at the very least stopped by Durkon, Hinjo, good guys inc. etc. in some improbable stroke of good timing/luck.

Odd that I'd be rooting for the "bad guys" in Oots and the "good guys" in Earthworld.

Altho, come on, she stuffed him into a MOUNTAIN. Isn't V a bit too fragile to survive that? I don't know much about D & D so that question wasn't at all rhetorical.

[Optimystik]

And this is why my wizards always have a Contingency spell active which states "If an antimagic field gets withing 20 feet of me..." then triggers a teleport.

Usually the FIRST contingency.

There are other ways around it too, like using instantaneous conjurations. Wall of Stone for example. Or Orb spells.

None of which would help V, since the idiot banned Conjuration.

Seriously, who does that?

[Assassin89]

None of which would help V, since the idiot banned Conjuration.

Seriously, who does that?

A 3.0 edition wizard?

V is screwed right now, unless the events in the comic decide to service the elf for the better.