[SPOILER] An epiphany. V and the Dragon

[Ronan]

Yay! My first theory :smallbiggrin:

I don't know if I want V to kill the dragon. More like defeat and parlay. Since black dragons cast spells anyway and this one has a more profound knowledge than the other *ancient* dragons, she would be a nice study colleague. Perhaps even leading to Ultimate Arcane Power:smallbiggrin:.

So... does anyone believe in my marvellous theory?
does anyone agree with it:smallredface:?

[SkredlitheOgre]

While I don't think V will die, IF this black dragon is related to the one from earlier in the comic, it might be tough to convince the dragon to parlay, since V killed it's kin. As for Ultimate Arcane Power, nah. Too early in the strip for that, in my opinion.

My theory is that Qarr will be rid of Dimensional Anchor and go back 'home' and return with some reinforcements to drive off the dragon, thus V owing Qarr (and his boss/reinforcements) a favor. V doesn't slide into evil, but becomes evil-ish.

My two electrum pieces, anyway.

[Optimystik]

I'm not convinced the dragon is even trying to kill V. As someone said in the comic thread "you're as skilled as my information led me to believe" sounds like something a talent scout or employer might say.

Of course, an assassin might say that too... or even a vigilante if we go with the vengeful mom theory. But one thing's for sure, this battle isn't going to go like we expect.

[Ego]

Maybe Rich plans on killing all the members of the order... That would be fun :)

[Kaytara]

I'm not convinced the dragon is even trying to kill V. As someone said in the comic thread "you're as skilled as my information led me to believe" sounds like something a talent scout or employer might say.

Of course, an assassin might say that too... or even a vigilante if we go with the vengeful mom theory. But one thing's for sure, this battle isn't going to go like we expect.

While I agree that the dragon's lines about V being as skilled as she had expected were pretty ambiguous, smashing someone with their head first through a stone cliff probably isn't the best way to test someone who you already know is a fragile pointy-eared monkey, emphasis on the fragile.
It sounds more like "Yep, you really are powerful with the magic arts. Too bad you'll have to do without them."

[MickJay]

Dragon was looking for something suitable for his familiar, and found V. Case closed.

[Nerdanel]

The dragon may not want to kill V yet, since although she has found the murderer of her son, her hoard is still missing, and her one question to the Oracle was about Vaarsuvius.

So, I expect the dragon to interrogate V about the money and the starmetal, which in turn will lead to the dragon wanting to find Haley, just like V... If V can stay alive long enough, the dragon could even find Haley for him and bring him along! She could have use for him for identification or as a hostage.

[derfenrirwolv]

Actualy, i think thats very, VERY bad for V. Momma dragon didn't ask where her hoard was... she asked who killed her son. That means she places a greater value on his life than the hoard, which means she's probably going to try to torture V to death slowly.

Dimensional anchor is not dismissable. V would have to cast dispell magic.. and he can't. Quarr could run into the field, but anti magic fields don't NEGATE the effect of spells it just supresses them. He cant be in the field because then he can't teleport and he can't be out of it because then he's stuck with the funny green lightshow.

On the other hand, the spell only lasts 1 min per level, so quaar could be ready to teleport at any time. He'd have to find some way of getting V away from the dragon to do it though.


I think momma's undoing will be in the fine print.

"Should a creature be larger than the area enclosed by the barrier, any part of it that lies outside the barrier is unaffected by the field"

[Optimystik]

Actualy, i think thats very, VERY bad for V. Momma dragon didn't ask where her hoard was... she asked who killed her son. That means she places a greater value on his life than the hoard, which means she's probably going to try to torture V to death slowly.

Where'd you see her ask anything like that? From what I saw, she just showed up without explanation and began 'pwning' elf face, there were no questions there.


"Should a creature be larger than the area enclosed by the barrier, any part of it that lies outside the barrier is unaffected by the field"

Herein lies the only silver lining to a very dark cloud.

[Mando Knight]

On the other hand, the spell only lasts 1 min per level, so quaar could be ready to teleport at any time. He'd have to find some way of getting V away from the dragon to do it though.


I think momma's undoing will be in the fine print.

"Should a creature be larger than the area enclosed by the barrier, any part of it that lies outside the barrier is unaffected by the field"

First off, the imp's name is Qarr. See the Whatever-Fiend's first speech bubble in this (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0585.html) comic.

Qarr isn't likely to be ready to teleport at any time... the spell lasts approximately 14 minutes, and it seems to have been only a few rounds (say, 14 or 20) since V casted Dimensional Anchor. Qarr is not going to be able to teleport out to gather reinforcements to get V in his debt before the Dragon gets V down to the point where V's fate is entirely in the Dragon's ha--er, claws.

The reading of AMF's radius could be taken into dispute... does the "emanation, centered on you" mean "emanating from you, with the radius of curvature centered at the nearest point on your body to the edge of the field" or "emanating in a perfect sphere from your center of mass/centroid" ? If it's the former, then V's in a mess, as the field is being defined as containing the entire dragon. If the latter, then there may be hope... except for the fact that a Huge creature normally fits within an AMF centered on itself.

[Tyrmatt]

I predict a tougher test here for V. The dragon is clearly enthralled by his arcane power and knows he can achieve a decent amount by using V. In fact, the first idea that comes to mind is having V be his mate...imagine having to deal with the act of betraying his life partner and soulmate? On top of everything else? Mindbreak!
The dragon gains what he knows to be good magical lineage for his half elf-half dragon sorcerer children and an equally analytical research partner. V gains access to the dragon's greater knowledge of the arcane. It's a good partnership logically.
The question is, can V handle the emotional baggage it would bring?

[Simanos]

Maybe Rich plans on killing all the members of the order... That would be fun :)
Hmm, V being raised (by Durkon maybe) will make the party come together again faster probably :p


"Should a creature be larger than the area enclosed by the barrier, any part of it that lies outside the barrier is unaffected by the field"
Hmm, the dragon's tail would be sticking out... too bad the imp can't cast plane shift on it... or can it?


The reading of AMF's radius could be taken into dispute... does the "emanation, centered on you" mean "emanating from you, with the radius of curvature centered at the nearest point on your body to the edge of the field" or "emanating in a perfect sphere from your center of mass/centroid" ? If it's the former, then V's in a mess, as the field is being defined as containing the entire dragon. If the latter, then there may be hope... except for the fact that a Huge creature normally fits within an AMF centered on itself.
No, there is no dispute. It specifically states that a creature larger than the area of AMF, 10 feet radius sphere, has parts of it sticking out. The description is VERY clear.

[Optimystik]

The reading of AMF's radius could be taken into dispute... does the "emanation, centered on you" mean "emanating from you, with the radius of curvature centered at the nearest point on your body to the edge of the field" or "emanating in a perfect sphere from your center of mass/centroid" ? If it's the former, then V's in a mess, as the field is being defined as containing the entire dragon. If the latter, then there may be hope... except for the fact that a Huge creature normally fits within an AMF centered on itself.

I'd say there's hope, since in every panel the dragon's been wearing its "bubble", a bit of it has stuck out, even if only the wings.


I predict a tougher test here for V. The dragon is clearly enthralled by his arcane power and knows he can achieve a decent amount by using V. In fact, the first idea that comes to mind is having V be his mate...imagine having to deal with the act of betraying his life partner and soulmate? On top of everything else? Mindbreak!

Probably an epileptic tree, but I'll bite. The dragon seems to be female judging by both Qarr's use of "she" and V not disputing it. As for how he knows, perhaps the dragon has a feminine voice. Not that it proves anything, but the dragons in NWN also have gender-recognizable voices.

[Shadowbane]

I'd like to think there's hope for V, I really do. I think this is rapidly becoming too dark and dangerous for him to survive.

Plus I'm rooting for the badass dragon. *shrug*

[David Argall]

Hmm, the dragon's tail would be sticking out... too bad the imp can't cast plane shift on it... or can it?

It specifically states that a creature larger than the area of AMF, 10 feet radius sphere, has parts of it sticking out. The description is VERY clear.

However the same rules consider the dragon a 15' cube. The fact that it is way longer than that is ignored. So the spell covers the entire dragon... unless our writer wants to abuse the rules some more...

[Lichtouch]

Listen to how the black dragon is talking. It's learned about V's arcane abilities, it has arcane abilities of its own and it appears to think of this as a bit of sport.

Sorry but I believe that the dragon has got plans for V - the other option is that the dragon is a plot device to force V to accept the imp's request. I don't believe the Giant would do something so foolish.

[xv bones]

Dragon was looking for something suitable for his familiar, and found V. Case closed.

wait, does that mean V will cease to exist until the dragon remembers she's supposed to be there?

[Optimystik]

Listen to how the black dragon is talking. It's learned about V's arcane abilities, it has arcane abilities of its own and it appears to think of this as a bit of sport.

Sorry but I believe that the dragon has got plans for V - the other option is that the dragon is a plot device to force V to accept the imp's request. I don't believe the Giant would do something so foolish.

I'm more concerned about how it learned V's name. I don't think either Qarr or V said it since he arrived on the island...

[The Extinguisher]

It probably went to see the Oracle.

Hence the important guest and all that jazz.

[Ladorak]

Although I'm skipping ahead a bit, I see this as an important choice for V. All h** arcane might has just been rendered useless, this is the moment where s/he has to decide... Admit s/he needs the other party members and what was said to :durkon:was totally out of order or concide that maybe the imp is of some value. That said I don't see how V can possibly survive without Qarr's help

[olthar]

Actualy, i think thats very, VERY bad for V. Momma dragon didn't ask where her hoard was... she asked who killed her son. That means she places a greater value on his life than the hoard, which means she's probably going to try to torture V to death slowly.


I don't see why everything thinks the dragon got all of this information from the oracle. Everything we've seen of this oracle says that if the dragon asked "who killed my son?" her answer would have been one word "Vaarsuvius." This dragon seems to have a lot more information than just that.

[chiasaur11]

"Give me full details on the killer of my son" might work.

Kobold seems nicer to the scaly types anyway.

[Kreistor]

Okay, I'm wondering why people think this dragon came to kill Varsuvius.

It came and talked first. If it wanted V dead, it would have just breathed acid before V knew what was going on, and then there's an instant gooey mess where V used to stand.

It tested second. It stood there and watched as V bounced spells off of it. Why let V do that, if not for some purpose?

It demonstrated physical superiority third. Persuasive argument, isn't it? Could probably get V to agree to any terms the dragon put forward.

Anti-magic field is a 6th level spell. Vaaruvius can perform 7th level spells, which the dragon is aware of, for some strange reason.

Perhaps, just perhaps, the dragon is looking for someone to teach it 7th level spells. And the test was merely to prove that Vaarsuvius was capable of what the dragon needed its teacher to be able to do.

[Finwe]

"Give me full details on the killer of my son" might work.

Kobold seems nicer to the scaly types anyway.

Furthermore, being capable of 6th level spells, it could use Legend Lore, or other divinations, to learn more about V once it had a name.

[Nimrod's Son]

Where'd you see her ask anything like that? From what I saw, she just showed up without explanation and began 'pwning' elf face, there were no questions there.
I think derfenrirwolv was assuming that the question had been asked offscreen and prior to the events of this strip (to the Oracle?), which is why the dragon is here attacking Vaarsuvius rather than in Greysky confronting Hayley.

[Manga Shoggoth]

Okay, I'm wondering why people think this dragon came to kill Varsuvius.

It came and talked first. If it wanted V dead, it would have just breathed acid before V knew what was going on, and then there's an instant gooey mess where V used to stand.

It tested second. It stood there and watched as V bounced spells off of it. Why let V do that, if not for some purpose?

It demonstrated physical superiority third. Persuasive argument, isn't it? Could probably get V to agree to any terms the dragon put forward.

Anti-magic field is a 6th level spell. Vaaruvius can perform 7th level spells, which the dragon is aware of, for some strange reason.

Perhaps, just perhaps, the dragon is looking for someone to teach it 7th level spells. And the test was merely to prove that Vaarsuvius was capable of what the dragon needed its teacher to be able to do.

Or alternately, the dragon is taking revenge for its kin, and so wants the victim to be very aware of who is killing it.

[Spoomeister]

Dragon's not real. V is sleep-deprived and hallucinating about her fears (loss of magic, loss of power, reprecussions of her tendancy to disintegrate creatures on general principle). It's the same as when she had the nightmare about ditching on the soldiers.

[fangthane]

It came and talked first. If it wanted V dead, it would have just breathed acid before V knew what was going on, and then there's an instant gooey mess where V used to stand.

Perhaps; quite a number of my big bad guys taunt the party in the first round though, so this could go either way. Perhaps she'd just finished casting a Protection or Resistance spell, or boosted her cha to increase save DCs.


It tested second. It stood there and watched as V bounced spells off of it. Why let V do that, if not for some purpose?
I can't possibly be the only one who noticed the "WOOSH!" coupled with acid as a seemingly-immediate retaliation to the Prismatic Spray, can I? :)


It demonstrated physical superiority third. Persuasive argument, isn't it? Could probably get V to agree to any terms the dragon put forward.

True, but it doesn't seem to have spared much effort in whumping the poor fragile pointy-eared monkey through the landscape, and you'd think less would be required if it were just making a point.


Perhaps, just perhaps, the dragon is looking for someone to teach it 7th level spells. And the test was merely to prove that Vaarsuvius was capable of what the dragon needed its teacher to be able to do.
Perhaps. I'd like to believe that the dragon doesn't constitute the mortal threat it appears, or that V will manage to somehow limp away with life, if not dignity, intact... I just don't see it, without help from the imp or his allies.

[Kreistor]

I can't possibly be the only one who noticed the "WOOSH!" coupled with acid as a seemingly-immediate retaliation to the Prismatic Spray, can I? :)

And yet, it missed. Do you know the rules on Dragon breath? You can't miss. The target can avoid if, and only if he has Evasion or Improved Evasion. Without it, you take at minimum 1/2 damage on a successful saving throw.

In other words, the dragon intentionally breathed to not hurt, just scare, Vaarsuvius.

[Zevox]

In other words, the dragon intentionally breathed to not hurt, just scare, Vaarsuvius.
What leads you to that conclusion? It looks to me like V did get hit with it - not fully, but definitely hit. Notice how her lower half is caught in the blast in panel 2, and her robes and cloak are wet in the next panel (and every panel afterwards). Looks to me like she made her save, but did suffer some damage.

Zevox

[Forum Explorer]

I hate to say it but I think V is going to die.:smallfrown:
The Oracle hinted that V would die soon, and that it could be drawn back to Belkar.

[Zevox]

I hate to say it but I think V is going to die.:smallfrown:
The Oracle hinted that V would die soon, and that it could be drawn back to Belkar.
And how exactly could this be drawn back to Belkar, even in the horrendously convoluted fashion the Oracle was using for his explanations?

Zevox

[magic9mushroom]

The Oracle didn't say anything about V dying. He said that Belkar would kill at least one of the following: Oracle, Roy, Vaarsuvius, Miko, or Windstriker. Belkar killed the Oracle, fulfilling the prophecy. The end. There is no way to get "Belkar will cause V's death" out of that.

[Kaytara]

While I don't think V can die just yet, we ARE talking about the same Oracle who presumably instructed the Mama Dragon on how to find Vaarsuvius.

"And as for the elf..." has never sounded so ominous.

I stand by my usual assertion: While the prophecy has been fulfilled and doesn't tell us anything, the Oracle was still trying to bring up Vaarsuvius in a last desperate attempt to convince Belkar, so there must have been something to bring up. However, given the pattern of his explanations, in particular the fact that Windstriker hadn't even died, I think the "death" of Vaarsuvius the Oracle might have brought up would've been some horrendously metaphorical over-interpretation that alluded to the elf significantly changing in some way without literally dying.

[Nimrod's Son]

The Oracle didn't say anything about V dying. He said that Belkar would kill at least one of the following: Oracle, Roy, Vaarsuvius, Miko, or Windstriker. Belkar killed the Oracle, fulfilling the prophecy. The end. There is no way to get "Belkar will cause V's death" out of that.
There is, though. The Oracle said, "As for the elf..." right before Belkar stabbed him. He was trying to save his own life. Belkar hadn't bought the stories of the deaths of Roy, Miko and Windstriker, so the only possible way he could stop Belkar killing him is to convince Belkar that he will cause the death of Vaarsuvius.

There's no reason to think Belkar will directly cause V's death, but entirely likely that he will have some tenuous link to it.

[Wanton Soup]

There is, though. The Oracle said, "As for the elf..." right before Belkar stabbed him. He was trying to save his own life. Belkar hadn't bought the stories of the deaths of Roy, Miko and Windstriker, so the only possible way he could stop Belkar killing him is to convince Belkar that he will cause the death of Vaarsuvius.

There's no reason to think Belkar will directly cause V's death, but entirely likely that he will have some tenuous link to it.

And weren't there a whole slew of people saying that the Oracle is always strightforward and correct?

Yet I seem to see some of those same names mentioning this completely 3-2-1-style justification for the Oracle's attempt to avoid being the one killed by Belkar as was unavoidable without the Oracle changing HIS actions. For which the Oracle punished Belkar and got lots of props from these people.

[Aris Katsaris]

Yet I seem to see some of those same names mentioning this completely 3-2-1-style justification for the Oracle's attempt to avoid being the one killed by Belkar as was unavoidable without the Oracle changing HIS actions.

Are we supposed to be able to parse this sentence? You'll have to rephrase it, I think.

Anyway, if V is to die now (or anytime in the comic), then finding remote connections to Belkar's actions isn't difficult at all: Belkar indirectly caused Roy's death, which caused Haley to seek his body, whose MIA status caused V's growing alienation from his allies, etc, etc.

But if V doesn't die at *all*, then it's indeed difficult to figure out what the Oracle was about to mention about "the elf".

[Rotipher]

The Oracle said, "As for the elf..." right before Belkar stabbed him. He was trying to save his own life.


Given that the Oracle had already forseen his death and arranged for his own resurrection, I doubt whether the kobold had ever expected to postpone his own demise. Indeed, he seems quite used to dying at the hands of his irate clients, even if he doesn't care for it.

Possibly the Oracle was trying to stir up a little discontent within the OotS: making V suspicious of Belkar would've constituted yet another form of pre-emptive payback, had the halfling's attack come just a few words later. As it was, of course, Belkar killed the Oracle before those words could be said.

[Zbyhnev]

V's refusal to trance ever since the siege of Azure city has caused him to increasingly look borderline undead, so I would not be surprised if that was actually the next step for him.

[Optimystik]

V's refusal to trance ever since the siege of Azure city has caused him to increasingly look borderline undead, so I would not be surprised if that was actually the next step for him.

If a few all-nighters made you undead, Roy would have been a wight long since :smallbiggrin:

Anyway, for a wizard who banned necromancy to undergo lichdom would require quite a bit of tapdancing to my mind.

[hamishspence]

Clerics, druids, adepts, almost any caster can become a lich. Even if they haven't learned any necromancy spells but just have Craft Wondrous Item.

so, not as tricky.

Then there is the "divine intervention" principle: being reaches out to evil deity for aid, deity responds by ensuring that when creature dies, it becomes a lich.

Talos did this to a dragon in the second Moonshae trilogy.

[Optimystik]

Clerics, druids, adepts, almost any caster can become a lich. Even if they haven't learned any necromancy spells but just have Craft Wondrous Item.

so, not as tricky.

True, but even if they've never prepared necro spells (clerics and druids don't actually learn any spells after all) they haven't barred that entire spell school either. Even if a druid's never cast Finger of Death, that doesn't mean he's physically incapable.

Still, by RAW you're correct.


Then there is the "divine intervention" principle: being reaches out to evil deity for aid, deity responds by ensuring that when creature dies, it becomes a lich.

Talos did this to a dragon in the second Moonshae trilogy.

Deities sponsoring lichdom (You're right again, Talos is famous for this: see also Velsharoon) is a special case and so they'd be able to bypass just about any of the restrictions involved. They could even grant you the CWI feat if you didn't have it, or help you meet the prereqs so you can take it, for instance.

[hamishspence]

adepts are the most spectacular "Exactly how are they doing it?" example: 11th level, can only cast 3rd level spells, can become a lich.

when none of the necromancy spells they can cast are even vaguely undead-related, it suggests that The Soul Storing Trick, whatever it is, is not much about Necromantic Skills.

[Kreistor]

What leads you to that conclusion? It looks to me like V did get hit with it - not fully, but definitely hit. Notice how her lower half is caught in the blast in panel 2, and her robes and cloak are wet in the next panel (and every panel afterwards). Looks to me like she made her save, but did suffer some damage.

Assuming an ancient black dragon, the breath is 20D4, average 50 damage. V is L14 at best, with a Con 12 or less (according to Class and Geekery thread), for 14D4+14 or 49HP average. In other words, even with a successful save for 1/2, V would be at 1/2 HP, not scratch V's clothing.

Dragon breath murders pure casters.

[edit]BTW, the DC on the save is 31. V's save would be +4 for levels and no dex bonus. No indications of magic items to improve saves, but that would at best be +5 for +9 total. In other words, V would need to roll a 20 on a 20 sided die to successfully save for 1/2 damage.

[Tre of the Wood]

I am absolutely convinced that the dragon does not exist. The dragon is being dreamed by V to convince her that she needs the other members of the party to survive. Hey, it worked with Belkar.

[Optimystik]

I am absolutely convinced that the dragon does not exist.

The thought had crossed my mind... but Qarr is very plainly there, and he saw her too.

[Tre of the Wood]

I am absolutely convinced that the dragon does not exist. The dragon is being dreamed by V to convince her that she needs the other members of the party to survive. Hey, it worked with Belkar.
Maybe Qarr isn't there either.

[Kreistor]

Yep. She didn't want to kill V. I was wrong about the reason, but I read the signals right, anyway.

[Kish]

Maybe Qarr isn't there either.
Clearly the solution is that you're not there.

[David Argall]

Clearly the solution is that you're not there.

Or at least not all there.

[Nimrod's Son]

Given that the Oracle had already forseen his death and arranged for his own resurrection, I doubt whether the kobold had ever expected to postpone his own demise. Indeed, he seems quite used to dying at the hands of his irate clients, even if he doesn't care for it.
Well, yes, quite. The idea of someone who already knows how things will turn out trying to change the outcome was obviously done only for comedy purposes. That has nothing to do with my point though, which is that if Vaarsuvius wasn't going to die, then how could the Oracle make any kind of claim (no matter how tenuous) that Belkar caused his death?

I wasn't even saying that Belkar will necessarily outlive Vaarsuvius. Merely that Vaarsuvius' eventual death can be linked to Belkar's actions in some way. Even if it is desperately grasping at straws to do so.


Possibly the Oracle was trying to stir up a little discontent within the OotS: making V suspicious of Belkar would've constituted yet another form of pre-emptive payback, had the halfling's attack come just a few words later. As it was, of course, Belkar killed the Oracle before those words could be said.
Since Vaarsuvius was hundreds of miles away at the time, I doubt he would have been too offended by the Oracle's words. If pre-emptive payback was his motive, why didn't the Oracle say something about it the first time round, when Vaarsuvius was actually there?


And weren't there a whole slew of people saying that the Oracle is always strightforward and correct?

Yet I seem to see some of those same names mentioning this completely 3-2-1-style justification for the Oracle's attempt to avoid being the one killed by Belkar as was unavoidable without the Oracle changing HIS actions. For which the Oracle punished Belkar and got lots of props from these people.
This was written in direct response to something I said, but after reading and rereading it I can't for the life of me understand what you're trying to say, or even if you're agreeing or disagreeing with me. Any chance you could rephrase it?

[Snake-Aes]

Schrödinger's dragon?

[Volkov]

Yay! My first theory :smallbiggrin:

I don't know if I want V to kill the dragon. More like defeat and parlay. Since black dragons cast spells anyway and this one has a more profound knowledge than the other *ancient* dragons, she would be a nice study colleague. Perhaps even leading to Ultimate Arcane Power:smallbiggrin:.

So... does anyone believe in my marvellous theory?
does anyone agree with it:smallredface:?

I really don't think V would want to talk with someone who is wearing a hat made out of He/She/It/Hermaphrodite's Mate and has two scrolls with He/She/It/Hermaphrodite's children's souls inside.

[Wanton Soup]

The dragon may not want to kill V yet, since although she has found the murderer of her son, her hoard is still missing, and her one question to the Oracle was about Vaarsuvius.

What's the point of killing the loser? A dead loser is gone. A loser who lives has to live the rest of their lives knowing they lost and having their noses rubbed in it for all eternity.

You're forgetting that the dragon is chaotic evil.

Not only dispenses pain and death but LOVES dispensing pain and death. If pain and death were its only reward, it would be quite happy.

[Volkov]

What's the point of killing the loser? A dead loser is gone. A loser who lives has to live the rest of their lives knowing they lost and having their noses rubbed in it for all eternity.

You're forgetting that the dragon is chaotic evil.

Not only dispenses pain and death but LOVES dispensing pain and death. If pain and death were its only reward, it would be quite happy.

Not only that but now it has a very, very strong reason to dispense pain and death. While black dragons aren't like red dragons who will incinerate everyone you know for calling them "meany heads" they still are quite easy to anger.

[Wanton Soup]

This was written in direct response to something I said, but after reading and rereading it I can't for the life of me understand what you're trying to say, or even if you're agreeing or disagreeing with me. Any chance you could rephrase it?

3-2-1 was a gameshow in the UK where you had some clues about the content of a price ticket. One price on offer was a Bin. A trashcan. If you won that, go home with a steel dustbin. And one of the clues would point to it.

However, the clues toward the end of the game's life were really weird. Like "And tube is another name for underground. And the clue goes on about where I'm not, and what does the underground lack? Dustbins. You just rejected Dusty Bin!!!!"

Likewise, Oracle on who Belkar killed.

"Well, you gave him the ring that put him on the dragon and then when Xykon killed the dragon and flew of, Roy died hitting the ground and therefore that was your fault".

I mean, may as well blame momma greenhilt for squeezing out Roy. If she hadn't done that, Roy wouldn't be alive to die,.


And lots (and lots) of people were going "Yeah, but Belkar did so kill Roy." and the same people said about the interpretation of "enjoy his last birthday cake" was "Yeah, but his answers are ALWAYS straightforward" (go back and read the justification for Windstriker's death...).

[Wanton Soup]

Are we supposed to be able to parse this sentence? You'll have to rephrase it, I think.

Yes you are.

Yes I did.

Tunt.

[Volkov]

Chromatic Dragons will destroy nations to get at the person who angered them. This black dragon is no exception.

[Wanton Soup]

Chromatic Dragons will destroy nations to get at the person who angered them. This black dragon is no exception.

Unless that nation is too powerful.

And there's no justification for the moral outrage.

[Wanton Soup]

Not only that but now it has a very, very strong reason to dispense pain and death. While black dragons aren't like red dragons who will incinerate everyone you know for calling them "meany heads" they still are quite easy to anger.

Which has what to do with what I said?

But I'll try again.

There's a much better reason to keep V alive and that is so that more pain is endured.

[B. Dandelion]

Well, yes, quite. The idea of someone who already knows how things will turn out trying to change the outcome was obviously done only for comedy purposes. That has nothing to do with my point though, which is that if Vaarsuvius wasn't going to die, then how could the Oracle make any kind of claim (no matter how tenuous) that Belkar caused his death?
If the definition of "death" itself is dubious. The attempted justifications given by the Oracle were increasingly implausible in this regard as well as their attempts to link cause and effect. The deaths of Roy and Miko could only have been indirectly caused by Belkar, but at least they were both actually killed. Windstriker was another matter. If the Oracle thought that he could stretch that to fit the prophecy, and the fate of "the elf" was the excuse on his list even after that...

[sidhe3141]

If a few all-nighters made you undead, Roy would have been a wight long since :smallbiggrin:

Anyway, for a wizard who banned necromancy to undergo lichdom would require quite a bit of tapdancing to my mind.
One word: Scirelich. (See the Literati, part 3 in the Gaming section)
Of course, xe doesn't have the requisite language either... unless there's something about xir that we don't know.

[derfenrirwolv]

First off, the imp's name is Qarr. See the Whatever-Fiend's first speech bubble in this comic.

I'm not interested in spelling discussions. Either is anyone else.



Qarr isn't likely to be ready to teleport at any time... the spell lasts approximately 14 minutes, and it seems to have been only a few rounds (say, 14 or 20) since V casted Dimensional Anchor. Qarr is not going to be able to teleport out to gather reinforcements to get V in his debt before the Dragon gets V down to the point where V's fate is entirely in the Dragon's ha--er, claws.

There was an unspecified amount of time where quarr wandered away from V and then came back while he was studying. That gives plenty of time for the Dimensional ancor to wear off at the speed of plot.



The reading of AMF's radius could be taken into dispute... does the "emanation, centered on you" mean "emanating from you, with the radius of curvature centered at the nearest point on your body to the edge of the field"

If that was how it was supposed to be interpreted then it would either be impossible to stick out of it, or would require calculus and a detailed mathematical description of the casters 3 dimentional shape.

Its also in contradiction to how the little white milky buble is being shown in the comic. Its a 10 foot radius. Any part of the dragon more than 10 feet away from its midsection sticks out.