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Raenir Salazar
2009-01-28, 03:02 PM
Lavos CR 1558

Genderless Brobdingnagian Teratoid Tarrasque

Neutral Macro-Large Magical Beast

Init +4, Senses Listen +100; Spot +100; (Can pinpoint invisible objects and effortlessly defeat audible illusions)

Aura Fear (DC 4610, 4 mile radius)

Languages None (or Alien)

AC 2816, touch -1008, flat-footed 2816 (-1024 size, +6 dex, +3840 natural)

hp 200626 (6144d10+166834 HD); DR 3426/-- (15/epic)
Regeneration (All) 9353

Immune Fire, Poison, Disease, Energy Drain, Ability Damage; SR 432

Fort +4122, Ref +4102, Will +3076

Weakness None

Spd 240 ft. (48 squares)

Melee Bite +5406 (60d10+518/18-20/x3 +2d6), Horns +5406/+5406 (40d10+482), Claws +5406/+5406 (40d12+482), Tail Slap +5406 (80d10+482)

Base Atk +6144; Grp +6240

Space 10560 ft. ft.;Reach 7040 ft. (~2 miles)

Atk Options Swallow whole, improved whirlwind attack

Special Actions Rush, tunneling

Abilities Str 115 (+52), Dex 22 (+6), Con 63 (+26), Int 13 (+1), Wis 14 (+2), Cha 14 (+2)

SQ Augmented critical, carapace, frightful presence, improved grab, scent

Feats Alertness, Awesome Blow, Blind-Fight, Cleave, Combat Reflexes, Damage Reduction x1137, Devastating Critical (Bite), Dire Charge, Dodge, Epic Potency x233, Epic Prowess x233, Epic Toughness x200, Great Cleave, Great Dexterity x12, Great Intelligence x10, Improved Bull Rush, Improved Combat Reflexes, Improved Initiative, Improved Multiattack, Improved Natural Attack x4, Improved Spell Resistance x200, Iron Will, Mobility, Multiattack, Overwhelming Critical (Bite), Penetrate Damage Reduction (Adamantine), Spring Attack, Toughness x6, Weapon Focus (Bite)
Metamartial Feats: Combat Expertise, Enlarge Attack, Improved Whirlwind Attack, Mighty Attack, Power Attack, Widen Attack, Whirlwind Attack

Skills Balance +120, Bluff +100, Climb +100, Craft (Alchemy) +6149, Handle Animal +5406, Jump +6222, Profession (Miner) +20, Search +60, Survival +120 (+122 when following tracks), Swim +100, Tumble +100

Variant: Add "Manifest DNA" ability
edit Description

(A good set of images can be found here: [2])

This terrifying tarrasque is roughly 2 miles long, 1.5 miles tall, and weighs about 1128 megatons (1.1 gigatons). Legend has it that this tremendous creature fell from the very heavens millions or billions of years ago, burrowing itself deeply into the planet. The destruction caused by its fall brought about the end of countless species, and the resulting carnage stirred certain other creatures to development. Some legends say that it is not dragons who are the source of magic in the world, but rather this creature.

Legend also says that this tarrasque is absorbing the life of the world to gain more power, until the day in which it will rise forth from the ground and destroy all civilization, bringing about a global holocaust of horrific proportions.

Either this tarrasque cannot speak, or it chooses not to speak. It may speak an alien language unknown to anyone but itself and its kind, but this is mere speculation.

Rumor has it that this tarrasque is mere a living shell that surrounds another creature that dwells deep within it.
edit Combat

It attacks with claws, teeth, horns, and tail. All its weapons are treated as epic, adamantine weapons for the purpose of overcoming damage reduction and hardness.

Devestating Critical [EPIC] (Ex): Whenever the tarrasque scores a critical hit with its bite, the target must make a fortitude save (DC 3134) or die instantly. Creatures immune to critical hits are unaffected by this ability.

Improved Combat Reflexes [EPIC] (Ex): There is no limit to the number of attacks of opportunity the tarrasque can make in one round. (It still can't make more than one AoO for a given opportunity)

Destruction Rains from the Heavens (Ex)/(Su): Massive spikes launched themselves from Lavos' back, shadowing the land. More than ten-thousand filled the sky in just one minute of the beast's arrival on the surface. Cities were flattened, countries were decimated. In one day, the entire world had seen the horror of Lavos. The Day of Destruction.

As a standard action, the tarrasque can make 1,228 melee attacks at a -4 penalty. The tarrasque cannot attack any one opponent more than once as part of this action, although it can attack inanimate objects (such as buildings). When using this attack, the tarrasque forfeits any bonus or extra attacks granted by other spells or abilities (such as cleave).

As a supernatural ability, the range of these attacks can be increased by two miles by increasing the penalty by 15. This penalty cannot exceed its BAB. By increasing the penalty from -4 to -6139, the range of this attack becomes 820 miles (each attack made at -733, hitting most targets on a roll of nat 1 only; very large stationary targets are still vulnerable, of course). To remain consistently lethal to moving targets, it can extend its range to a mere 722 miles by increasing the penalty to -5404 (each attack now made at +2).

(This ability is simply the usage of the Improved Whirlwind Attack and Enlarge Attack feats)

Frightful Presence (Su): The tarrasque can inspire terror by charging or attacking. Creatures within four miles of the tarrasque who witness its carnage must succeed on a DC 4610 Will save or become shaken, remaining in this condition as long as they remain within those four miles (21,120 feet, or 4224 squares).

Rush (Ex): Once per minute, the normally slow-moving tarrasque can move at a speed of 1920 feet (384 squares).

Tunneling (Ex): As a standard action attacking the ground, the tarrasque can make a hole large enough for it to move through. This hole can be rigged to collapse after it moves through, or supported to allow pursuers to follow.

Improved Grab (Ex): If the tarraque hits a Macro-Small (Colossal+5 or Colossal+++++) creature or smaller with its bite attack, it can attempt to start a grapple as a free action without provoking an attack of opportunity. If it wins the grapple check, it establishes a hold and can attempt to swallow the opponent the next round.

Swallow Whole (Ex): The tarrasque can try to swallow a grabbed opponent of Macro-Small (Colossal+5 or Colossal+++++) or smaller size by making a successful grapple check. Once inside, the opponent takes 20d10+482 points of crushing damage plus 20d10+482 points of acid damage per round from the tarrasque's digestive juices. A swallowed creature can cut its way out by dealing 10,000 points of damage to the tarrasque's digestive tract (AC 2176). Once the creature exits, muscular action closes the hole; another swallowed opponent must cut its own way out.

The tarrasques gullet can hold 2 Macro-Small, 8 Macro-Tiny, 32 Macro-Diminutive, 128-Macro-Fine, 512 Titanic, 2048 Colossal, 8192 Gargantuan, 32768 Huge, 131072 Large, 524288 Medium, 2097152 Small, 8388608 Tiny, 33554432 Diminutive, 134217728 Fine or smaller creatures.

Carapace (Ex): The tarrasque's armor-like carapace is exceptionally tough and highly reflective, deflecting all rays, lines, cones, and even magic missile spells. There is a 30% chance of reflecting any such effect back at the caster, otherwise, it is merely negated. Check for reflection before rolling to overcome the creature's spell resistance.

Regeneration (Ex): No form of attack deals lethal damage to the tarrasque. The tarrasque regenerates even if it fails a saving throw against a disintegrate spell or a death effect. If the tarrasque fails its save against a spell or effect that would kill it instantly (such as those mentioned above), the spell or effect instead deals nonlethal damage equal to the creature's full normal hit points plus 10 (or 200636 hp). The tarrasque is immune to effects that produce incurable or bleeding wounds, such as mummy rot, a sword with the wounding special ability, or a clay golem's cursed wound ability. The tarrasque can be slain only by raising its nonlethal damage total to its full normal hit points plus 10 (or 200636 hp) and then using a wish or miracle spell to keep it dead. The wish or miracle spell is subject to the creature's spell resistance.

If the tarrasque loses a limb or body part, the lost portion regrows in 1d6 minutes (the detached piece dies and decays normally). The creature can reattach the severed member instantly by holding it to the stump.
edit Variant

For those who want a little bit more of that Lavos flavor, add this ability.

Manifest DNA (Su): As a standard action, Lavos can change itself to imitate any species of creature it has encountered, up to 6144 HD. While doing so, Lavos grows any new appendages that may be required to imitate the new form. Other than this, Lavos's size and appearance do not change. However, while manifesting DNA in this manner, ALL of Lavos's stats change to conform to the imitated creature, including hit points, ability scores, supernatural abilities, spell like abilities, caster level, spells known, equipment (including ammunition for ranged weapons, and charges for magical items), and even features that would be related to Lavos's new size had it actually changed, such as reach (but not Space). Lavos can imitate only one creature of any given species, and once chosen, when Lavos attempts to imitate that species, that creature's stats are used, including any class levels or templates that might have been applied.

When in this form, if Lavos's new hit points are reduced to 0, Lavos reverts to whatever form it was in before using this ability. From this point on, Lavos can never again imitate the species being used when its hit points reached 0. Lavos can return to its normal state before its hit points reach 0 in this manner as a standard action. When returning to this species later, Lavos's hit points return to where it had been.
[edit] Optional Weakness

For even more authenticity to Lavos, try this feature.

Enter Shell (Ex): By dealing 10,000 damage to the outside of Lavos, you may create a hole in its shell large enough for a medium sized creature to enter. This hole lasts until Lavos's hitpoints are healed beyond the 10,000 damage threshold. Instead of leading to its digestive system, this hole leads to a series of caves which, if followed, lead to the center of the creature, where another being may reside safely.
[edit] Rule adjucations to consider

By the Rules As Written, even tarrasques of this size are not immune to ability drain, even if they are immune to ability damage, making them vulnerable to a swarm of Allips mass teleported (or summoned) to within striking distance. However, it wouldn't be unreasonable to assume that this shouldn't work (a couple of very low CR creatures taking out this monstrosity?)... so feel free to make Lavos immune to drain as well as damage.

Alternatively, make Lavos vulnerable to drain as such, but require the players to make the required Knowledge check to obtain the information that its weak to this tactic. That's a Knowledge (Arcana) DC 6154 for "one useful peice of information" about the creature. It might be interesting to know that Lavos has DR 3435, but 15 of this can be bypassed with an epic weapon. Or it might be interesting to know Lavos's spell resistance is 432. Remember that for each additional useful peice of information, the DC goes up by 5. If they can make these kinds of checks, they probably deserve to be able to make use of the Allip summoning trick.
edit The Nuclear Option

How would modern nuclear weapons face against Lavos? The Immortal's Handbook has the following epic spell:

Kiloton
Evocation
Spellcraft DC: 381
Components: V, S.
Casting Time: 10 minutes
Range: 3,000 ft.
Effect: Variable (see below)
Duration: Instantaneous
Saving Throw: Fortitude partial.
Spell Resistance: No
To Develop: 900,000 gp; 18 days; 36,000 XP;
Seeds: afflict (DC 14), destroy (DC 29), energy (DC 19) and slay (DC 25).
Factors: change from bolt to ball (+2 DC),
increase range 900% (+18 DC),
increase area 4900% (+196 DC),
increase afflict damage 14 points (+56 DC),
increase destroy damage by 40d6 (+80 DC),
increase energy damage by 30d6 (+60 DC).
Mitigating factors: burn 10,000 XP (-100 DC),
increase casting time to 10 minutes (-20 DC).

This spell creates a massive atomic explosion, mimicking the effects of one
kiloton of TNT. The conflagration has four different effects. Firstly, anyone
within 150 a feet radius of the epicenter must make a Fortitude save or be
disintegrated. Secondly, anyone standing within 250 feet of the epicenter
suffers 40d6 fire damage (Fortitude save for half ). Thirdly the shockwave
deals 60d6 bludgeoning damage up to a 1000 foot radius (Fortitude save for half).
Lastly, anyone within 1000 feet of the epicenter suffers radiation poisoning,
which deals 6 points of damage to their Constitution, Dexterity and Strength.

Upper_Krust (the author) has clarified that for each x64 increase in energy, it deals x2 damage. So a 64 kiloton nuke would deal 80d6 fire damage, 120d6 bludgeoning damage, etc etc.

Lavos is immune to ability damage, immune to fire damage, and if I'm not mistaken, Damage Reduction applies to bludgeoning damage whether it's magical in origin or not (and besides, we're assuming a physical nuke anyway).

The only two nuclear weapons used as weapons were Little Boy and Fat Man, dropped on Hiroshima and Nagasaki, respectively. Little Boy was 15 kilotons. Fatman was 21 kilotons.

To calculate damage, we need to get a ratio.

21/64 + 1 = 0.328125 (that's a 32.8% increase from 1 kiloton)
60 * 0.328125 = 19.6875

60 + 20 = 80. So Fatman deals 80d6 bludgeoning damage, for an average of 280... not even enough to scratch 'im. Heck, the smaller tarrasque would survive that blast (though not without a scratch), and so would a number of epic level PCs.

Wikipedia states that the largest yield hydrogen bombs in existence today have a yield of 20 megatons... 20,000 kilotons. That's double the power of 312.5 kilotons, which is double the power of 4.8828125 kilotons.

4.8828125/64 = 0.0762939453125 (a 7.6% increase from 1 kiloton)
60 * 0.0762939453125 = 4.57763671875

So a five-ish kiloton nuke deals 65d6 bludgeoning damage. A 313-ish kiloton nuke deals 130d6 bludgeoning damage, and a 20 megaton nuke deals 260d6 bludgeoning damage, or 910 on average. Still not enough to get past the armor...

A 1.2 gigaton nuke, using exotic materials or antimater or something like that, would do 520d6 bludgeoning damage, or 1820 on average... not enough even yet. An 81.9 gigaton nuke would do 1080d6 bludgeoning damage, or 3640... just barely enough to scratch it for a couple of seconds (205 damage after DR).

A 5.2 teraton nuke would deal 2160d6 bludgeoning damage, 7280 on average. Now we're starting to do a little bit of damage. Just a little bit though...

For comparison, StarDestroyer.net [3] estimates 250 Terajoules of energy in an Imperial StarDestroyer's Medium Turbolaser blast. 1 kiloton of TNT = 4.184 TJ, so 250 TJ = a mere 59 kilotons.

You need a REALLY REALLY big nuke to even damage it. The size of the nuke needed to bring it down to -10 hp is astronomical.

And then you still need a wish or mircale powerful enough to get past its spell resistance to keep it dead.
[edit] Lavos Arrives

When Lavos shows up, 65 million years ago (give or take a couple millenia), it landed with sufficient force to cause a fireball that covered most of the continent and caused a global climactic change that lasted for millions of years. This explosion is similar to the K-T Meteor impact, which is estimated to have released energy equivalent to 500 Tera-Tons of TNT.

100 teratons of TNT is double the power of 1.562 teratons, is double the power of 24.414 gigatons, is double the power of 381.469 megatons, is double the power of 5.960 megatons, is double the power of 93.132 kilotons, is double the power of 1.4 kilotons. 1.4/64 = 2.1% increase in power. 60 + 2.1% = 61.3125 * 2^6 = 3924d6 bludgeoning damage, for an average of 25506 damage. 25506-3435=22071 damage, which hurts a little but is regenerated fully in 3 rounds (2.35 rounds, to be precise... that's 14 seconds).


http://d20npcs.wikia.com/wiki/Brobdingnagian_Teratoid_Tarrasque and a bunch of other cool looking stat monsters :)

olelia
2009-01-28, 04:29 PM
And a pixie crusader/cleric comes along....

Olo Demonsbane
2009-01-28, 06:12 PM
Wow. Just Wow.

I wouldn't make him that high CR though. I have a CR 80 (technically) creature that could probably beat him (though CR 80 is not accurate at all :smallsmile:)

Once characters get to high enough levels to defeat his SR, they could just defeat him by casting wish: "I wish that this creature was suddenly and permanently iradicated from the multiuniverse".

I have a party of 106th level adventurers and it would be fun to try to beat him. Their favorite sport is God Hunting.

Raenir Salazar
2009-01-28, 06:31 PM
I know a certain low level Kobold who can take him on :)

TheLogman
2009-01-28, 06:39 PM
Meh, its initiative is only +4.

That, and its mental stats are pretty low, 10-13 makes it most vulnerable to stat damage. Yeah, his saves are in the several thousands, but the Ability Drain tactic works, as you mentioned. Aren't Allips a physical creature? It could just kill them instantly.

Honestly, I would recommend something that's incorporeal. Doesn't seem like he can hit incorporeal stuff, plus they could surround him on all side. Get something that deals WIS damage, and you're solid.

Of course, it would take years and years to kill it once you trapped it in the WIS drain COMA of doom.

Raenir Salazar
2009-01-28, 06:52 PM
I know a certain low level Kobold who can take him on :)

Alleine
2009-01-28, 07:33 PM
... for a creature based off of Lavos, I have to say that it is surprisingly un-lavos like.

Then again, DnD and Chrono Trigger are VERY different. So different that you pretty much have to make up a lot of Lavos' stats because CT doesn't cover those at all.

Also:

I created this creature in response to comments that Lavos from the game Chrono Trigger looked similar to the tarrasque.

No. Just no. Not at all. The only similarity is the spiky plated back the tarrasque has to Lavos' spiky ENTIRE BODY. In other words: They are totally not similar. *sigh*

A nice idea, but like so many things, fails when it ceases to be an idea.

Raenir Salazar
2009-01-28, 07:49 PM
I didn't create it, I'm just an Elder Evils fanw ho loves reading stats of completely insane creatures.

Alleine
2009-01-28, 08:11 PM
I didn't create it, I'm just an Elder Evils fanw ho loves reading stats of completely insane creatures.

Yeah, I got that. It doesn't seem all that insane to me though. Then again I read through monty...

Llama231
2009-01-28, 08:18 PM
Let me introduce you to the anti-osmiun bomb (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?p=2010735#post2010735).:smallamused :

Heliomance
2009-01-29, 07:07 AM
Meh.
Spam Dominate Monster until it rolls a natural 1.

Raenir Salazar
2009-01-29, 05:26 PM
it has I think 450 ish spell resistence, i dont think it rolling a 1 matters, and frankly I think ANY DM that seriously thinks a massive god killing abomination can EVER roll a save that ever automatically fails is kinda newbish. Seriously its the size of a city why would dominate monster ever work?

Nohwl
2009-01-29, 06:22 PM
dweomerkeeper using a spell as a supernatural ability would bypass the spell resistance. i would use wish or miracle as a supernatural ability.

how much experience does a level 20 character get for killing it?

Raenir Salazar
2009-01-29, 06:47 PM
but what would you wish for? what nth lvl spell would you use?

Alleine
2009-01-29, 07:22 PM
but what would you wish for? what nth lvl spell would you use?

Wish can technically do anything. It doesn't have to be a spell. You could wish for this creature to die. Though when you do stuff like that, it is solely up to the DM to decide what happens.

Belial_the_Leveler
2009-01-29, 07:43 PM
I wish it loses its regeneration, as per the Graymantle spell.
I wish it gets polymorphed into a gerbil.
I wish it turned to stone.


Incidentally, there's a feat that each time you cast the same spell in a row, you get +1 to DC or +2 to SR with no upper limit. A 20th level caser with that feat, incantatrix levels and Absorption could, in theory, cast an absorption then repeat it. The absorption absorbs the repeat of itself. The caster can now cast a 9th level spell free of cost. He casts repeat absorption again. In the end, he has infinite spells per day and thus, eventually, infinite DC and SR checks.

Lavos is turned into a gerbil.

JeminiZero
2009-01-29, 08:25 PM
I didn't create it, I'm just an Elder Evils fanw ho loves reading stats of completely insane creatures.


These (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=101587) Guys (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=5689601&postcount=80) may interest you.

Siosilvar
2009-01-29, 08:37 PM
how much experience does a level 20 character get for killing it?

None. You don't get XP for creatures with CRs above your level +8, if I remember rightly.

Or, if your DM ignores that rule, you instantly go up a level and are 1 XP short of being level 22.

Or, if your DM ignores that rule, you're probably level 700-ish.

Nohwl
2009-01-29, 08:58 PM
Wish can technically do anything. It doesn't have to be a spell. You could wish for this creature to die. Though when you do stuff like that, it is solely up to the DM to decide what happens.

theres no experience cost when you use wish as a supernatural ability of a dweomerkeeper, so you could try different wordings until you got tired of it.(max of 4 times a day).

Behold_the_Void
2009-01-29, 09:01 PM
It bothers me that Lavos is CR is so high, considering it's taken down by a bunch of teenagers whose only advantage is the fact that they have magic awakened in them.

Zeful
2009-01-29, 09:43 PM
It bothers me that Lavos is CR is so high, considering it's taken down by a bunch of teenagers whose only advantage is the fact that they have magic awakened in them.

And are roughly level 50+ and (if you completed everyone's sidequest) carry the most powerful weapons in existence for their world.

At the end of the game those kids weren't pushovers.

Belial_the_Leveler
2009-01-29, 10:07 PM
A level 5 character has the power of a squad of green recruits.
A level 10 character has the power of a light armored vehicle or 100 green recruits.
A level 20 character has the power of a legion (several thousand infantry)
A level 35 character has the power of an entire army or a modern battleship.
A level 50 character can level cities, mow down entire armies and survive nukes without magic defences. He has powers rivalling or surpassing those of Superman.


So don't be so quick to attribute level 50 to a hero. Even Hercules, who killed thousands of enemies in a single battle while unarmed, was below level 30 when mortal.

Nohwl
2009-01-29, 10:24 PM
is that in terms of d&d characters?

The Glyphstone
2009-01-29, 10:39 PM
So, Dr. Manhattan was a level 21 wizard?

Belial_the_Leveler
2009-01-30, 05:32 AM
It's in DnD terms, assuming full items. Since Dr. Manhattan didn't have items, I'd bump him to lvl 25 or so. A Sorceror 1/Warlock 4/Eldritch Theurge 15/Archmage 5 could do everything Dr. Manhattan did.

Behold_the_Void
2009-01-30, 06:02 AM
And are roughly level 50+ and (if you completed everyone's sidequest) carry the most powerful weapons in existence for their world.

At the end of the game those kids weren't pushovers.

Even assuming that level, them taking down a CR 1,500-something still seems a bit dodgy.

And the fact that apparently Chrono Cross reveals that Marle, Lucca and Crono were killed by an army invasion or some other setting-ruining nonsense implies that they weren't all THAT powerful.

Raenir Salazar
2009-01-30, 03:16 PM
Wish afaik is up to the DM and is fairly limited, you bend reality but only to certain degrees, you can wish for example only +1 of any 1 attribute and takes 2 wishes to True Ressuctection someone back to life (1 to create the body, 1 to restore it to life), I think it would be extremely unlikely that any DM would allow you to simply turn someone, or something to stone of that size.

'Or, if your DM ignores that rule, you instantly go up a level and are 1 XP short of being level 22."

I prefer this rule, as its inline with the suggested rules for killing a God.

"And the fact that apparently Chrono Cross reveals that "

Having played Chrono Cross I do not recall this happening or being revealed.

Nohwl
2009-01-30, 03:28 PM
are you saying that any sane dm would throw a cr 1558 at a party and expect you to fight it normally? wish is the easiest way to kill it. you teleport to it, cast celerity to ensure you go first if you didnt get a surprise round, use wish as a supernatural ability to remove it from existence, and then have your contingency go off to teleport you back to wherever you were before in case it didnt work.

edit: is it immune to drowning? you could move it to the plane of water and just pretend its dead.

Raenir Salazar
2009-01-30, 03:37 PM
Wish and common interpretation of wish seems to only work in limited ways in line to the average power and ability of being a level 9 spell, to be able to use it in the manner you describe without a major side effect or DM subverting the letter of the wish seems massively unbalancing in line with its spell level.

Of course would a DM throw Lavos at you with cr 1500? Or heck even A'tuin the Star Turtle with its CR 84 Million? Probably not unless your party got so high level that Creatures of that CR were required to be a suitable challenge ala Elder Evils campaigns.

Another_Poet
2009-01-30, 03:41 PM
Here are my reactions:

First, my applause for some impressive monster-making.

Second, for Lavos, I'd reduce the size. As I recall when the the CT team finally faces him he is what we D&Ders would call Colossal. Arguably that is only the head sticking out from under the ground, but since that's the only part you can engage it's moot. If the maco-large body is hidden underground where you can't hit it, and only the colossal head is showing, then he's no easier to hit than a colossal creature. Ramp down AC penalty and natural armour accordingly.

My only real beef though is the the DNA ability. You've got it all wrong! Lavos didn't have the DNA of all those bosses, rather, it read the minds of Crono & company and saw their biggest fears and toughest foes. Then it shapeshifted accordingly.

At least, that's the way I've always imagined it. It certainly makes for a creepier ability (and your players will be shocked to start facing all the dragons, liches and other BBEGs they've faced in their campaign).

ap

Alleine
2009-01-30, 03:41 PM
Wish afaik is up to the DM and is fairly limited, you bend reality but only to certain degrees, you can wish for example only +1 of any 1 attribute and takes 2 wishes to True Ressuctection someone back to life (1 to create the body, 1 to restore it to life)

Er... true resurrection doesn't require a body... and wish only duplicates a regular resurrection which I think is what you meant.


I think it would be extremely unlikely that any DM would allow you to simply turn someone, or something to stone of that size.

Yes, it would be extremely unlikely, but the wording of wish allows you to at least make an attempt at doing anything. Besides, the DM could just decide to fulfill the wish and then screw over the PCs.
"Ok, your wish worked, but then the arcane energy required to accomplish it destroys the planet and everything on it. You get a reflex save to- oh wait, you'd die anyway."


@Behold_the_void: remember, the CR system works about as well as a chicken with its head cut off...


I'd like to see Tippy take a crack at this thing. He would probably be able to kill it at level 21.

Raenir Salazar
2009-01-30, 03:46 PM
I would like to once more affirm that I did not make this creature that someone online somewhere else did so using the Immortals Hand Book.

As for Lavos i recall him being visible on the overland map as being a really large mountain.

Nohwl
2009-01-30, 03:47 PM
ok, use teleport to get on top of the thing, use plane shift as a supernatural ability to send it to the plane of water, use contingency worded so you teleport away from it so you dont die if it doesnt work, and then use wish as a supernatural ability if it did work to make it dead. if the dm doesnt allow wish, well its not your problem now.

Alleine
2009-01-30, 04:05 PM
As for Lavos i recall him being visible on the overland map as being a really large mountain.

I disagree, he was really more the size of one of the dome cities of the future. The mountains were much larger than he was.

Also, regardless of whether or not you created it, you posted this thing here. We absolutely have to try to kill it. It's what we do. :smallbiggrin:

@Nohwl: Try shifting it to the positive or negative planes instead. Those would be much more dangerous than the plane of water.

Quietus
2009-01-30, 04:25 PM
@Nohwl: Try shifting it to the positive or negative planes instead. Those would be much more dangerous than the plane of water.

It's only got a 63 con. I believe you can hold your breath for 2x con rounds before making saves? Oh, plus the fort save thing, that's what'd get you.

Negative plane wouldn't work, unless you can shift it directly into the doom-zones that give negative levels... but I think there was a clause saying that no one shifting to that plane goes directly to the doom-zones. So it'd be an Inflict every round. Hardly enough to tickle the Tarrasque. Positive would work though, and Death By Awesome is always fun.

AmberVael
2009-01-30, 04:31 PM
Such low mental scores, in combination with a lack of protection against many types of ability drain cry out for some kind of easy drain and beat scenario.
The SR and heavy saves limit it a little, but I'm betting one could find a neat way around that.

Myrmex
2009-01-30, 04:45 PM
Wish & Plane Shift both allow saves and have SR: Yes. Good luck with that.

The easiest way to kill it would be cleric/crusader/Ruby Knight Vindicator and wraithstrike. Its touch AC is negative. All you gotta do is poke it with a d2 weapon for a huge damage loop. RKV so you can cast multiple swifts in the same round (celerity, wraithstrike). Make sure your UMD is high enough for using the wands or whatever.

Nohwl
2009-01-30, 05:20 PM
dweomerkeeper using them as supernatural abilities ignores spell resistance. which is why ive been using it.(the complete divine web enhancement version at least)

Raenir Salazar
2009-01-30, 05:28 PM
Such low mental scores, in combination with a lack of protection against many types of ability drain cry out for some kind of easy drain and beat scenario.
The SR and heavy saves limit it a little, but I'm betting one could find a neat way around that.

Been pointed out that Either it should be immune to such a scenario or require a DC 3000 knowledge check or "One useful bit of information" before they could use it/ know of it.

TheCountAlucard
2009-01-30, 05:54 PM
It's only got a 63 con. I believe you can hold your breath for 2x con rounds before making saves? Oh, plus the fort save thing, that's what'd get you.

Negative plane wouldn't work, unless you can shift it directly into the doom-zones that give negative levels... but I think there was a clause saying that no one shifting to that plane goes directly to the doom-zones. So it'd be an Inflict every round. Hardly enough to tickle the Tarrasque. Positive would work though, and Death By Awesome is always fun.

But see, the negative energy plane is also a vacuum, so it'd still be more effective than the Elemental Plane of Water for killing it. Oh, and it's 4x your CON, not 2x.

Belial_the_Leveler
2009-01-30, 06:06 PM
Been pointed out that Either it should be immune to such a scenario or require a DC 3000 knowledge check or "One useful bit of information" before they could use it/ know of it.
There's the little-known spell "know weakness" that reveals a creature's defences. Alternatively, one of the PCs is a wraithstriking Ubercharger Blade of Ragnarok (lvl 30). By hitting with a Destiny Strike (and he hits automatically) he gets to know the creature's defences (including Spell Resistance, Fast Healing, immunities DR and regeneration) automatically and remove one (no save, no SR) for 3 rounds. A full attack with Destiny Strike gets to remove ability drain immunity, regeneration and, while we're at it, Spell Resistance.

Meanwhile, the 30th level incantatrix archmage Gates (by casting 2 twin, Quickened gates and 1 twin gate) 180 allips from the Negative Energy Plane. These Allips immediately attack, using their draining touch. Lavos, with both his drain immunity and his regeneration that protects from death removed, dies instantly before he acts for a single round of combat.



DISCLAIMER:
The above tactic is cheap, though effective. In no way does it reflect the point of view of the poster as a player or DM and nor does the poster endorse such tactics. It is merely mentioned as an example of possible abuse under the "informative DMing" and "brokneness to be avoided" acts.

Llama231
2009-01-30, 07:17 PM
I think that this thing's CR should at least be below 100, because it is not THAT powerful, even without all of this cheesiness.

Raenir Salazar
2009-01-30, 08:34 PM
would show weaknesses bypass spell resistence?

Nohwl
2009-01-30, 10:52 PM
But see, the negative energy plane is also a vacuum, so it'd still be more effective than the Elemental Plane of Water for killing it. Oh, and it's 4x your CON, not 2x.

does it really matter if it has no way of getting back? i really dont care if it stays there for 5 years before it runs out of air. its not on my plane of existence, and i dont have to deal with it anymore.

AmberVael
2009-01-30, 11:02 PM
would show weaknesses bypass spell resistence?

No, but by the time you're level 431 (which is about 1/4th of the creature's CR, at least by its given estimate) you don't have to worry about its spell resistance. If you're facing it by the time you "should" be facing it, it's SR is a completely meaningless statistic.
:smallyuk:

Another_Poet
2009-02-10, 11:25 AM
But see, the negative energy plane is also a vacuum, so it'd still be more effective than the Elemental Plane of Water for killing it.

A vacuum? Yeah, and? Lavos came from outer space. Without a spaceship! Vaccuum is its natural habitat.

Note: I hope this is isn't thread necromancy, since it's been just over a week since the last post. I justhad to stop back in and see how the discussion went on this thing.

ap