Taking All Bets

[Llaqus]

Ok, so here's what we know: the dragon is an ancient black dragon, he's not working for the imp, and he has been hired by someone.

So, my thought is: Someone we know? or someone we don't know?

if it is indeed someone we know it has to be one of a few people the ones that come to my mind are:

Liner Guild
Xykon

My bet's on Xykon, most likely he was scrying on the OOTS and sent a dragon after V while he/she was separated from the group.

On the other hand Nale is more the person to want to seek revenge on the OOTS, i just don't see where his resources would allow him to find an ancient black dragon.

anyway the floors open any thoughts?

[Cheesegear]

anyway the floors open any thoughts?

My vote goes to the mother or father of this (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0186.html) dragon. Seeking revenge on Vaarsuvius.

[Optimystik]

Ok, so here's what we know: the dragon is an ancient black dragon, he's not working for the imp, and he has been hired by someone.

That, kids, is what we call an assumption.

The dragon mentions her "information," but says nothing of an employer.
I would very much enjoy watching Xykon take on a dragon, though.

[David Argall]

At this point it seems that Xykon neither knows nor cares about the party.

Nor is there any known way the LG could know of the party, and little reason it would persuade such a powerful dragon to go V hunting.

Nor do we have sign of an alternate employer.

Back to the Ma theory.

[Kish]

Ok, so here's what we know: the dragon is an ancient black dragon, he's not working for the imp,

She.


and he has been hired by someone.
...huh?

Why would you even think that, much less claim it as something we know?

[Finwe]

That, kids, is what we call an assumption.

The dragon mentions her "information," but says nothing of an employer.
I would very much enjoy watching Xykon take on a dragon, though.

If you are able to get your hands on the Paladin Blues book, some of the bonus strips detail his fight with the silver dragon in his old tower.

[Optimystik]

If you are able to get your hands on the Paladin Blues book, some of the bonus strips detail his fight with the silver dragon in his old tower.

...Yeah okay I'm getting that.

[Lissou]

The main theory seems to be that she's the mother of the young black dragon, who went to the oracle. Of course, it raises many questions, such as:

If she went to the Oracle, how come she could ask more than one question, or what question did she ask that could cover all the information she knows?

She knows that V killed her son.
She knows V used Disintegrate
She knows V's name
She found V's location (could be done just by knowing V's name, though)
She knew V was powerful.

If she had asked "What happened to my son" we can bet the Oracle would give her a lame-ass answer such as "he died" or "he was killed".
If she asked "Who killed my son?" she could have obtained V's name, and possibly get information on him, such as the fact that he is powerful and his location. But would she know that he used Disintegrate? Could she determine it from her son's remains?

That theory certainly sounds plausible to me but I need more information to be sure about that. A link with the previous dragon seems obvious to me. The part about the Oracle, maybe less so. I mean, at first we were told the Oracle wasn't well known and such, and know everybody's going to see him?

[Kaytara]

If she asked "Who killed my son?" she could have obtained V's name, and possibly get information on him, such as the fact that he is powerful and his location. But would she know that he used Disintegrate? Could she determine it from her son's remains?

That theory certainly sounds plausible to me but I need more information to be sure about that. A link with the previous dragon seems obvious to me. The part about the Oracle, maybe less so. I mean, at first we were told the Oracle wasn't well known and such, and know everybody's going to see him?

For the last part, there is an obvious explanation. While the Oracle may not be well-known, he's a kobold follower of Tiamat, so a centuries old Ancient Dragon will certainly have heard of him.

As for how the dragon knows so much... Well, we already know the Oracle can be coerced into answering extra questions. If Roy was able to do it by dangling the kobold out of the window, an important favoured client of the deity's favourite race who's also a complete killer machine should stand a pretty good chance.

[Janmorel]

There is also the possibility that the Oracle just plain doesn't like the OotS, and was being vague/unhelpful on purpose. If Mama Dragon was his "very important client" or he sympathized with a fellow reptilian, or he just wanted to stick it to the OotS one more time, he might have been a lot more specific for her.

"How did my son die?"
"Vaarsuvius, a magic-dependent elf with issues, took him out with a couple of 'Disintegrate's."

[whatchamacallit]

For the last part, there is an obvious explanation. While the Oracle may not be well-known, he's a kobold follower of Tiamat, so a centuries old Ancient Dragon will certainly have heard of him.

As for how the dragon knows so much... Well, we already know the Oracle can be coerced into answering extra questions. If Roy was able to do it by dangling the kobold out of the window, an important favoured client of the deity's favourite race who's also a complete killer machine should stand a pretty good chance.

Totally agree, as a dragon, talking to a follower of Tiamat she's likely to get an association bonus and a big discount.

I'd also assume with access to excessive (exceedingly high levels) magic and draconic sense that trailing the wizard was child's play for her.

This is mama out for revenge and I'll bet last nights haul on it.

[pendell]

The main theory seems to be that she's the mother of the young black dragon, who went to the oracle. Of course, it raises many questions, such as:


Why do we assume she went to the oracle? Because the oracle said he was about to see an important client? That could be anybody.

There are other forms of divination magic available in this world besides the oracle. The Dragon may be able to do its own divination.

However, if it was indeed the oracle who gave her the information, I can well understand why he would be more forthcoming than he was to Roy and company. Remember that the Oracle receives his information from Tiamat. Isn't Tiamat related to dragons somehow? As in, she's the five-headed queen of dragons?

Respectfully,

Brian P.

[Lissou]

You raise a good point about the Oracle being a followed of Tiamat. I hadn't given that part much thought, he might be better known by dragons than by humans.

To be honest, the main thing that struck me as odd was that Roy's father couldn't locate Xykon for so many years, even when he did try. And then, the dragon seems to locate V and get there in only a few weeks?

However, I guess all of it can be explained, especially if the Oracle was more helpful than expected. He has been seen giving additional information in the past ("Yes - for you at least").

And an ancient dragon might have better ways to find out people's whereabouts than a human who doesn't seem to even be giving it that much effort.

[Kaytara]

From what info we get from the comic, Eugene didn't spend all that much time looking for Xykon, either. He learned his name from the Oracle and then used his adventuring contacts to locate him. Too bad they couldn't get his name right.
And eventually, he gave up and even ignored the chance to pursue Xykon in SoD.
So yes, limited resources and lack of dedication are probably the main reasons here.


Why do we assume she went to the oracle? Because the oracle said he was about to see an important client? That could be anybody.

The exact phrase used was "I have an important client flying in and I don't want a dead mammal to mess it up." This implies that the client has either wings or flying magic and that it would be able to see ghost Roy. And, of course, there's the idea of what kind of client a kobold follower of a five-headed dragon deity would consider important.

It could still be nearly anyone, but all those points fit the Ancient Black to a tee so it's simpler to assume that it was a clue rather than a coincidence.

[kirbsys]

Perhaps the dragon is merely a hallucination? We know that V is slightly of his/her rocker at the moment, and one of the things s/he is most disturbed about is how without his magic he was helpless to stop the slaughter of the troops in Azure City. What the Dragon said makes me half-way think that its merely part of V's mind.

[[TS] Shadow]

Perhaps the dragon is merely a hallucination? We know that V is slightly of his/her rocker at the moment, and one of the things s/he is most disturbed about is how without his magic he was helpless to stop the slaughter of the troops in Azure City. What the Dragon said makes me half-way think that its merely part of V's mind.

The fact that Qarr saw her AND tried to warn V. Unless he's a halucination too, but I doubt it.

[Animefunkmaster]

The main theory seems to be that she's the mother of the young black dragon, who went to the oracle.

Or perhaps she didn't go the oracle at all. We know that she is a better caster than a regular ancient black dragon and can caste as a 12th level sorcerer minimum. This leaves the following spells at her disposal that could aid in finding/knowing the tactics of V.

Analyze Dweomer or Legend's Lore
Speak with Dead
Contact other Plane
Scrying
Locate Creature/Locate Object (there horde)

Thinking for a moment about the dragon's frightful presence, 31d12 hd, and spell resistance. I can only see escape as a possibility for V, I hope that dimensional anchor on quar wears off soon.

[mikeejimbo]

Probably mother of that young adult they killed.

I was hoping this would be a bet on who would win. I'm going for the Dragon in, oh, no more than 4 rounds.

[ballabosh]

This was posted in the 627 thread, so it's not original from me (although I noticed it too), but there is defintitely a connection between this dragon and the earlier one that V killed, just based on the dialog.

From 186:

V: Fascinating. I cannot help but notice that the disintegrated remains of a dragon are indistinguishable from those of a human, or a halfling or a dwarf.

From 627:

Dragon: Fascinating. It appears that you cease to be a mighty wizard and become a fragile pointy-eared monkey. While I? I am still a dragon.

I'm with the mama dragon crowd. Is it possible that mom was there in the cave when baby dragon was disintegrated, but was somehow unable to stop it from happening? Then she would already know who and how her baby was killed. She is still the important visitor to the Oracle, but now all she needs is "Where?"

[ref]

Also, both dragons resist V's spells with a dry "No."

[David Argall]

Perhaps the dragon is merely a hallucination? We know that V is slightly of his/her rocker at the moment, and one of the things s/he is most disturbed about is how without his magic he was helpless to stop the slaughter of the troops in Azure City. What the Dragon said makes me half-way think that its merely part of V's mind.
Well, our writer has not used an all-a-dream sequence yet, so it can't be ruled out here, and may well happen some time in the next few hundred pages. But we have seen quite a few facts out of V's view, and the dragon doesn't seem like something V would dream of. Now if it had been Xykon, or the ghost of Haley or... such, it might fit. But why would V dream of a dragon?

[factotum]

To be honest, the main thing that struck me as odd was that Roy's father couldn't locate Xykon for so many years, even when he did try. And then, the dragon seems to locate V and get there in only a few weeks?


It's not like V has exactly been hiding himself, is it? He played a major role in the defence of Azure City and I'm sure many hundreds if not thousands of people on the fleet knew he was aboard. Xykon, on the other hand, spent most of the years Eugene was looking for him hanging out with goblins and other non-humanoids that Eugene probably never even considered asking to see where he was!

[King of Nowhere]

Actually, Eugene choosed divination as one of his barred schools, so that may explain well why he never located Xykon.

Also, the linear guild was immediately discarded, but they're not outside the realm of the possibility:
On the other hand Nale is more the person to want to seek revenge on the OOTS, i just don't see where his resources would allow him to find an ancient black dragon. :nale: You're looking for that elf that disintegrated your son? Yeah, we know him. Or her, I've never been sure.

Nale could have access to some divination, both as a sorcerer spell or with a new ally, and sent the dragon after V using the dragon's pre-existant motivations, like he did with the second cobold.
Not that I find it likely, the Oracle theory is still the most plausible, but independent divination form the dragon or informations from Nale is possible, too.

[David Argall]

To be honest, the main thing that struck me as odd was that Roy's father couldn't locate Xykon for so many years, even when he did try. And then, the dragon seems to locate V and get there in only a few weeks?


Eugene was blocked by the rules of drama. As the father of the hero, he can't find the target of his son's quest.

[Optimystik]

Actually, Eugene choosed divination as one of his barred schools, so that may explain well why he never located Xykon.

Then how did he cast Detect Scrying? (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0292.html)

[littlequietguy]

Okay I have an alternative theory. Kobuta hired the dragon and gave it a mystical amulet or some such that glows when he dies along with showing the name and location of the person who offed him. He didn't hire the dragon directly because that might be suspicious.

Or it's the dragon who was guarding the starmetal and the dragon V disintegrated was his twin brother visiting for the weekend. J/K