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Who_Da_Halfling
2009-01-29, 04:39 PM
I've been following the discussions about sorcerer vs. wizard the last couple days, and I have a related question: which one makes a better villain?

Assuming I can adjust the stats appropriately (b/c I can), which caster class makes a better villain? The one I'm working with is a little limited in his items, as one of his arms is rendered useless (by divine sacrifice) and the other hand bears a Ring of Teleport (which is how he's escaped the party before as a Level 1 random Goblin). Hand of the Mage is an option, but then he loses his neck slot instead of the hand one.

Fluff-wise, I can work it either way. Sorcerer fits slightly better, but I'm having trouble putting together his spell-list with the sorcerer spells-known limits. Is a wizard just better?

-JM

Darth Stabber
2009-01-29, 04:47 PM
Either options works, but the real question is just how much of a schemer is the aforementioned BBEG. The more complexity there is in his evil plan the more wizardly he is. If he has a basic plan and a cult of personality then he is likely a Sorc.

MammonAzrael
2009-01-29, 04:52 PM
Wizard would be more powerful, but I'd say Sorcerer makes the better villian. It gives a better opportunity for signature spells/abilities, and imposes limitations. Wizards would be smarter, and thus more likely to follow the Evil Overlord List (http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/EvilOverlordList). The wizard will also likely have more focused spells for when he takes on the party that specifically negate PC advantages.

They can both work really well, but in general I'd say the Sorcerer works better in general.

LibraryOgre
2009-01-29, 04:59 PM
Does your party have a wizard or other learned spellcaster?

If so, then a wizard is a nicer option, since it allows your party to get goodies in the form of a spellbook (even if it's only a traveling one the BBEG left behind as unimportant).

If not, go with what works better.

BobVosh
2009-01-29, 05:04 PM
I remember you posting about this guy. He sounded more like a sorcerer than a wizard, IIRC.

Just have a few scrolls of whatever for those spells he wouldn't need constantly.

Burley
2009-01-29, 05:05 PM
What really matters is this: How tough do you want it to be for the party to take out the BBEG, and do you want him to come back multiple times?

If you want a tough fight, go Sorcerer. They have more spells, and in a fight/other encounter, you'll usually only be using a handfull of spells.

If you want the guy to escape and recur, go Wizard. Then, on the second/third/ninth time around, the PCs will still be like "Oh, man... That's a new one" as they try to dodge/escape their arcane doom.


For extra kicks, make it a wizard and lead them to believe it's a sorcerer. Have the villagers be all "Oh, Nose! The Sicko-Sorcerer is coming back." Then, the party will expect the same ol' tricks, and get force caged in the face.
Eh? Eh?

LibraryOgre
2009-01-29, 05:13 PM
I remember you posting about this guy. He sounded more like a sorcerer than a wizard, IIRC.

Just have a few scrolls of whatever for those spells he wouldn't need constantly.

On that note, would a warlock work? If you're talking of appropriate level, he can make whatever he needs, and just have his superpowers to back him up.

Eldariel
2009-01-29, 06:56 PM
Well, I'd say it depends. Wizard makes more for a cunning, patient villain with longterm plans such as a chessmaster - one prepared for all eventualities and very unlike to get caught by surprise at any point. Has few efficient minions lured by thirst for power, some promises, etc. This is mostly facilitated by Wizard's naturally stratospherical Int. This also is reflected in combat style by having well laid out plans and lots of contingency plans (using the wide spell selection to prepare just what you need for a few different plans while having used Divinations and minions to study the party) for all kinds of possible problems including some means of retreat to a safe place in case the tides turn against him. His minions should probably mix in with normal folks and be in positions where they can be of actual use for him; no point in having minions that have nothing to give but combat assistance - that's what Summons, Planar Bindings, Mindslaves, etc. are for.

Sorcerer, on the other hand, is probably a more impulsive, improvising, on the spot type of adversary that goes in without too much foreplanning and tries to seize the day. Probably lots of relatively willing minions and a very commanding presence. Indeed, I'd say the social abilities are this guy's primary tool and he probably uses others as much as his own inner power for basically everything.


And mechanically, yes, Wizard is better simply because it's a spell level ahead, gets bonus feats and has easier-to-customize spell lists, and more room to move from style to style.

Myou
2009-01-29, 08:14 PM
In my opinion Sorcerer. Wizards make a good BB as they plan and scheme and are one of the most powerful classes, but Sorcerers make a great BB.

The charisma, spontaneity, social skills and signature spells all make for a memorable, interesting and hopefully complex villain.

Also, if he started as a classless goblin then Sorcerer makes a lot of sense, as he awakened his inner powers, whereas it's harder to explain away decades of study to become a Wizard.

Who_Da_Halfling
2009-01-30, 02:17 AM
Yeah, I have posted about this guy before (the party has yet to encounter him, actually). I was having trouble deciding because thematically, he could go either way. I concepted him as a Sorcerer because his path to power was talking his way into leadership positions (reserving his awe-inspiring spells for when talking failed). However, he's also very cunning, planning out his master, take-over-the-continent plan. That could mean Intelligence, which may suggest a Wizard.

Ultimately, I suspect a Sorcerer makes more sense. I was mainly asking to see if there was a lot of concensus that a Wizard is just far and away better or if it was a bit more of a toss-up.

Scrolls and Wands are a good idea. I'll definite put a few of those on him.

Any advice for interesting magic items? I've got Magic Item Compendium and DMG, I've been sifting through it, but if anyone's got advice on something that they tried (or was tried against them) that was cool/interesting/fun.

-JM