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View Full Version : How far can you move in Solid Fog?

Frosty
2009-01-30, 02:58 AM
The spell states that any creature attempting to move through it progresses at a speed of 5 ft, regardless of its normal speed. Does this mean a creature can use both of its move actions and move 10 ft a round? Or does it mean the creature needs to ue a full-round action to move 5 ft? If the latter, then are creatures unable to take a full-round action (like Slowed for example) essentially stuck?

Zergrusheddie
2009-01-30, 03:08 AM
I've wondered the same thing. Based on the nature of the spell, I would think not; it's a mid-level spell and it is pretty balanced but would be useless if it only caused someone to be out of the fight for 1 round.

But I'm not sure about ways of gaining extra shift actions Like Press the Advantage Stance. Would you be allowed to "Shift 5, Shift 5, Full round attack" or would you be restricted to 5 feet at the maximum? More or less, what happens when the Undeniable Force impacts the Immovable Object?...

Eldariel
2009-01-30, 05:55 AM
I'd imagine it refers to the "minimum movement" of always being able to move 5' as a full-round action. Which would mean 5' total. The wording is a bit ambiguous though; I've always played it as a 5'-in-full-round limitation.

BobVosh
2009-01-30, 06:22 AM
it progresses at a speed of 5 feet, regardless of its normal speed,

That implies instead of whatever speed your speed is 5ft. So a double move is 10 ft.

I'm actually humored more by a creature of 0 speed actually capable of moving in a solid fog.

Malacode
2009-01-30, 07:35 AM
I'm actually humored more by a creature of 0 speed actually capable of moving in a solid fog.

I feel the need to create a sentient plant/statue/whatever with Solid Fog at will. Explain it as a golem, list speed as 0. Of course, I'll need the DM to OK this.

I personally think that it means a Move action is 5ft max. Double move would be 10 in my book, unless the natural speed of the being is less than 20ft, then no double move. No using Run action.

Favourite use of Solid Fog: Low flyers, expecially those without a ground movement rate, will stall and crash because of the speed limitation if they don't have Perfect m. No damage, because of the slowing property of the Fog, but denying flight is a real boon to many parties.

Saph
2009-01-30, 08:52 AM
it progresses at a speed of 5 feet, regardless of its normal speed,

That implies instead of whatever speed your speed is 5ft. So a double move is 10 ft.

This seems like the most reasonable interpretation to me.

It's ambiguous, though, and can be read either way, but I find that limiting it to a 5' full-round action slows combats to a crawl. Letting creatures move at 5' usually means that a Solid Fog dropped on them will hold them up for about two rounds, which is about in line for its spell level.

- Saph

Person_Man
2009-01-30, 10:18 AM
In the games I DM a Move action in a Solid Fog is limited to 5 feet. 2 Move Actions will get you 10 feet. Or you can take a 5 ft step as normal. Solid Fog is defeated by Freedom of Movement, Etherealness, Flawless Stride, and Mettle (which I realize is a house rule, I just felt that the spell was a bit game breaking, so I decided to give people another out) and can be dispelled by Dispel Magic or Anitmagic Field or whatnot as normal.

Thrawn183
2009-01-30, 10:18 AM
I just sent out preliminary house rules for my campaign yesterday and I ruled that solid fog limits you to 5 ft. as a move action, making it 10 ft. for a double move and 2 rounds to get out if its centered on you.

Keld Denar
2009-01-30, 12:04 PM
Mettle

I don't question the balance concerning this, but how you came to this conclusion in the first place. Solid Fog doesn't allow a save for anything. Just curious.

Not terribly OP, considering there are only what....3 ways to get Mettle in the game? Hexblade3, Pious Templar1, and Crusader8?

Frosty
2009-01-30, 07:46 PM
Not terribly OP, considering there are only what....3 ways to get Mettle in the game? Hexblade3, Pious Templar1, and Crusader8?

Those are the only 3 ways I know of.

Now, in terms ofbalance, what would you guys say is the most reasonable ruling? Level 4 spell that takes a combatant out of play for 2 whole rounds without save is pretty decent?

ericgrau
2009-01-30, 09:08 PM
+1 to "5' per move, or 10' per double move." But I agree the text is a bit confusing, I think I got it wrong before.

The 5' step rules say that you cannot use a 5' step when your speed has been reduced to 5'. So no step + full round action allowed.

Thurbane
2009-01-30, 09:41 PM
With no save and no SR, the spell is pretty powerful for 4th level, so we've always played it a 5-ft per movement action: i.e. 10-ft for a full round of nothing but moving.

Curmudgeon
2009-01-31, 01:05 PM
There's only one way to interpret this, by RAW; "progresses at a speed (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/glossary&term=Glossary_dnd_speed&alpha=S) of 5 feet" means 5' per move action.
speed: The number of feet a creature can move when taking a move action. This normally means 10' per turn to get out, but you could run if you had a Cloud Cloak (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/fw/20050311a) and get 20' in one full-round action.

Frosty
2009-01-31, 01:28 PM
Hmm, I think everybody is right. 10 ft per round total it is.

Roderick_BR
2009-01-31, 04:33 PM
it progresses at a speed of 5 feet, regardless of its normal speed,

That implies instead of whatever speed your speed is 5ft. So a double move is 10 ft.

I'm actually humored more by a creature of 0 speed actually capable of moving in a solid fog.
The same trick used in a group grappling together to move faster, having a friend to grapple you so you can use two wands at once, or the infamous trick of dumping an ally with less than -1 HP into water to make him "drown" back to 0 HP :smalltongue:

BobVosh
2009-01-31, 04:53 PM
can u explain the grapple one?

2009-01-31, 06:21 PM
Not terribly OP, considering there are only what....3 ways to get Mettle in the game? Hexblade3, Pious Templar1, and Crusader8?

I believe the Knight (PHB II) gets Mettle as well, although I don't have it with me to check.

lord_khaine
2009-01-31, 07:17 PM
can u explain the grapple one?

the grapple one is really funny, it involves a group of people joining a grapple, and then on their turn they use a action to make a grapple check to move ½ their movement (the grappled people fail this one on purpose) and get dragget along.
so with enough people you would move faster than you could normaly.

Curmudgeon
2009-01-31, 11:10 PM
the grapple one is really funny, it involves a group of people joining a grapple, and then on their turn they use a action to make a grapple check to move ½ their movement (the grappled people fail this one on purpose) and get dragget along. Amusing, but the bolded part isn't actually part of the D&D rules. Core rules only let you fail a saving throw on a spell. Rules Compendium opened this up to allow you to voluntarily fail any saving throw, and to drop your DEX bonus to AC. Anything else -- you can't choose to fail. D&D is a game about heroic achievement, not blundering failure. Giving up just isn't an option for most of the game mechanics.

Frosty
2009-01-31, 11:46 PM
Can you voluntarily drop spell resistance in response to a friendlyspell being cast on youor voluntarily fail a Dispel check?

monty
2009-01-31, 11:48 PM
Can you voluntarily drop spell resistance in response to a friendlyspell being cast on youor voluntarily fail a Dispel check?

You can drop spell resistance, but I believe it takes a standard action to do so.

Edit: http://www.d20srd.org/srd/specialAbilities.htm#spellResistance

A creature can voluntarily lower its spell resistance. Doing so is a standard action that does not provoke an attack of opportunity. Once a creature lowers its resistance, it remains down until the creature’s next turn. At the beginning of the creature’s next turn, the creature’s spell resistance automatically returns unless the creature intentionally keeps it down (also a standard action that does not provoke an attack of opportunity).

Curmudgeon
2009-01-31, 11:51 PM
Can you voluntarily drop spell resistance in response to a friendlyspell being cast on youor voluntarily fail a Dispel check?
A creature can voluntarily lower its spell resistance. Doing so is a standard action that does not provoke an attack of opportunity. You can't voluntarily fail a dispel check. You can, however, voluntarily succeed if you're the one who cast the original spell.

xanaphia
2009-01-31, 11:59 PM
If anyone wants a list of these idiotic rules fails, look at this list (http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/IAmNotMakingThisUp/Gaming).

monty
2009-02-01, 12:30 AM
If anyone wants a list of these idiotic rules fails, look at this list (http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/IAmNotMakingThisUp/Gaming).

I hate you. I just spent the last 20 minutes reading about using Escape Artist for anal exploration.

Person_Man
2009-02-01, 11:28 PM
I don't question the balance concerning this, but how you came to this conclusion in the first place. Solid Fog doesn't allow a save for anything. Just curious.

Not terribly OP, considering there are only what....3 ways to get Mettle in the game? Hexblade3, Pious Templar1, and Crusader8?

Mostly because Mettle only helps out with a few dozen effects, while Evasion helps out with hundreds. The fluff kinda supports it. And the Hexblade in my campaign was pretty unoptimized, so I felt like throwing him a bone.

Frosty
2009-02-04, 03:27 AM
Mostly because Mettle only helps out with a few dozen effects, while Evasion helps out with hundreds. The fluff kinda supports it. And the Hexblade in my campaign was pretty unoptimized, so I felt like throwing him a bone.

How does one optimize Hexblades anyways?

Person_Man
2009-02-04, 10:14 AM
How does one optimize Hexblades anyways?

1) Familiar: Your familiar shares your BAB and can Share Spells. Take Improved Familiar. Cast Alter Self, and each of you can turn into a crazy battle form.

2) Debuffs: Stack a lot of them. Use your Hex, the PHBII variant (and take Obtain Familiar - it's too good to pass up), Netherese Battle Curse, Frightful Presence, Brutal Strike, a spell storing weapon, weapon enhancements that debuff, net, razor net, lasso, etc.

3) Fear: If an enemy fails 2 fear checks, they've lost. And you're really good at debuffing. There are a ton of ways to get this.

4) Go into Blackguard or Paladin of Tyranny: Cha bonus to Saves (again), another debuff, Rebuke Undead (for Travel Devotion), and gives you a mount you can Share Spells with.

That's just off the top of my head.

Otodetu
2009-02-05, 05:33 AM
Back on track: Inside a solid fog spell, is you base speed reduced to 5ft. or is any move action, (like trying to run) reduced to 5ft.? (meaning that a run action is reduced to 5ft. movement?)

Keld Denar
2009-02-05, 06:18 AM
The way most people seem to be interpretting it means that it reduces your movement speed to 5', regardless. Thus, you could take a double move to go 10', but Haste wouldn't help you get out any faster. You can't run though, because your movement and sight are both restricted.

Project_Mayhem
2009-02-05, 07:34 AM
nearly a page of posts on a rules question, and all of them agreeing??

The bottom just fell out of my world. I'm gonna go read the Giamonk thread again.

Thurbane
2009-02-05, 09:13 PM
nearly a page of posts on a rules question, and all of them agreeing??

The bottom just fell out of my world. I'm gonna go read the Giamonk thread again.
If it wasn't pruned. :smalltongue:

Frosty
2009-02-05, 09:24 PM
We have a giamonk thread lately? I don't see any, but plenty of wizard threads I'm sure.