[3.5] Recommended Source Books?

[MoelVermillion]

Hello, Recently I've been DM'ing a fairly new 3.5 group. Currently we've been using purely the PHB, MM and DMG however a few of my players are already craving a bit more variety. I plan to buy some source books to remedy this problem however I don't really have any idea which books are good and which ones are not as good. I'm more looking for books that will expand player options, providing classes, spells, feats etc., though I am not opposed to books that deal with monsters and settings either.

Basically I'm asking if anyone here can recommend some good source books for DND 3.5.

Thanks in advance, thetsyman.

[BobVosh]

PHB2, ToB, Any of the completes have my vote.

[Rad]

I think PHB II is a good place to start.

[kamikasei]

I'm more looking for books that will expand player options, providing classes, spells, feats etc., though I am not opposed to books that deal with monsters and settings either.

There are two basic types: books that introduce new systems and books which provide more options for existing systems.

New systems would be the Expanded Psionics Handbook, Tome of Magic, Tome of Battle, and Magic of Incarnum. Psionics are excellent, but most of the content (and all that you need to use the system) is available in the SRD online. Tome of Magic has good stuff, but also terribly poor stuff, and is probably not worth picking up as your first non-core book. Tome of Battle is excellent, setting out a new system for melee characters along with three new base classes to use it. I'd recommend it, but it's not necessarily a high priority if your players are happy with how their melee characters are getting along at the moment. And then lastly, Magic of Incarnum describes a whole new system that can loosely be described as an ability to create magic items out of nothing which give you various kinds of bonuses and new abilities, and which can be swapped around daily or more often; those who have used it seem to tend to praise it, but many find it hard to get in to.

For books that expand your existing options there are the ones that modify a range of options, ones that focus on a specific archetype, and ones that focus on a type of ability. The last category would be the Spell Compendium and Magic Item Compendium, which are exactly what they sound like, big omnibus books full of spells and equipment. The second would be things like the Completes or Races, focusing on types of classes or types of backgrounds; Complete Scoundrel is considered good, Complete Psionic bad. And then there are books like the Players Handbook 2, which expand on classes from previous books, offering alternate class features, new feats and spells, and a few new (and good) base classes.

If you have only core at the moment, I'd recommend, in order, the PHB2, ToB, MIC, and then others to taste (and look in to psionics too). That may change depending on the makeup of your group.

[Narmoth]

I'll second PHB II.
Then there's mostly a question of what campaign you want to run.

Example:
For my blackguard I've taken stuff, mostly spells from: Complete Scoundrel, Complete Warrior, Complete Champion, Complete Divine, Book of Vile Darkness

For an undead campaign, I would strongly recommend: Libris Mortis, Heroes of Horror, Book of Vile Darkness

Then again:
Setting specific books, like Dragon Magic and Drow of the Underdark are great if you plan to use them in your campaign.

I've found little use of: Complete Adventurer, DMG II, Weapons of Legacy, all the item books are over-rated (read over-prized). Almost not using them.

[Eldariel]

I suggest:

Tome of Battle - for all the melee types.
Spell Compendium - for all the casters and especially the half-casters.
Complete Scoundrel - for skillmonkey types.
Player's Handbook II - for everyone.

This really expands the game for all the Core classes (although ToB mostly takes over as far as melee goes, but that's not necessarily a bad thing; playing ToB melee is tons of fun) and opens up character creation options. Thanks to Spell Compendium, there's actual variety as far as spells go (and the spellcasting of half-casters like Rangers and Paladins suddenly doesn't suck) and Complete Scoundrel introduces skilltricks and a bunch of fun feats. Player's Handbook II has a bunch of interesting spells, feats for everyone along with some feat paths, few usable classes and overall, good material.


This is not to say there isn't more good material out there; indeed, Magic Item Compendium, Unearthed Arcana, Expanded Psionics Handbook, Magic of Incarnum, Complete Arcane, Complete Adventurer, Complete Warrior, Stormwrack, Complete Mage, Complete Divine, Complete Champion (yes, even it), Heroes of Battle, Heroes of Horror, Champions of Ruin, Dungeonscape, Races of X, Unapproachable East, Tome of Magic and Eberron Campaign Settings, among others, are all very solid books (especially the first few - also note that while I listed Campaign Settings-books, I'd use those materials as generic; Champions of Ruin, Unapproachable East and Eberron Campaign Settings all have material that I feel belongs in the larger scale of things), but I feel the 4 listed books will enhance your game the most to start with and they'd be the ones I'd be missing the most if playing Core-only again. The "new" systems like Psionics, Incarnum and Tome of Magic are awesome, but I feel Tome of Battle fills a hole in Core while those are strictly additional good stuff.

[Biffoniacus_Furiou]

PHB2 should be everyone's first choice. The Tome of Battle: Book of Nine Swords is excellent for non-spellcasters, though it makes just about any PHB class that doesn't get spellcasting completely obsolete. The Spell Compendium has a lot to offer any class that gets spellcasting. Outside of that, you'll probably end up buying at least four books at once just to keep everyone happy and/or to keep the party versatile.

[Kaiyanwang]

Copypaste Kamikasei.

(but my personal tastes are more toward complete series than new systems).

[AslanCross]

Like many have mentioned:

-PHB2
-Tome of Battle
-Spell Compendium
-Completes. Be warned, the older the book, the likelier you'll find its options a bit weak. The first Complete book, Complete Warrior, had a lot of stuff that was rather subpar (the Samurai class being the worst of the lot), but also had some really awesome stuff (Tactical feats). Complete Champion, the last and most recent book, is said to have the strongest options in general, or at least a lot of really good ones.


PHB2 should be everyone's first choice. The Tome of Battle: Book of Nine Swords is excellent for non-spellcasters, though it makes just about any PHB class that doesn't get spellcasting completely obsolete.

I find that the ToB classes can actually synergize decently with PHB classes. Also, the Warblade doesn't completely obviate the need for the Fighter class. The two stack well if you want bonus feats to boost the Warblade's feat selection, and you could always use Fighter for NPCs (if you're a DM).

[Eldariel]

It's true that Barbarian, Ranger, Monk, Fighter and Paladin meld pretty well with Crusader, Warblade and Swordsage. But I'm posting again because I think Complete Scoundrel hasn't been brought up enough. Skill tricks are such a fabulous mechanic! They give skill monkeys effective extra "feats" that are limited but fun and really add another degree of value to having skills and help all the classes a great deal.

Indeed, it'd be the single thing I'd have loved to have in PHB as it makes so many feats not worth taking available for people while also forcing versatility since tricks are once/encounter abilities! So I strongly suggest C. Scoundrel as the skilled characters' ToB/Spell Compendium.

[Malacode]

Seconding/Thirding/Fourthing the Complete series. It still uses the same system, no worrying about Psionic rules (Unless you get Comp.Psi), Incarnum, Binding, Truenaming, Pacts, whatever, and really expands your options. Comp. Divine, Scoundrel and Champion are good, as they'll expand the options for most classes. Comp. Mage and Comp. Arcane are good buys too if you play with a lot or Arcanists. Also, Magic Item Compendium might be worth picking up later on, as it'll really throw your players (Finding magic items you've never heard of is really fun)

[Myou]

In my opinion the PHBII and the Complete series are the way to go.

[Arcane_Snowman]

With the exception of Complete Scoundrel, and Champion, most of the Completes are too specific to be simply recommended, same with the Monster (Lords of Madness, Libris Mortis etc.), Environmental (Frostburn, Sandstorm etc.) and the Races of (Dragon, Destiny etc.) series. They are more dependent on what the majority of characters that are in the specific game; whereas books likes PHII and Unearthed Arcana have something for everyone. (incidentally though, Unearthed Arcana is part of the SRD, which makes it very available)

Tome of Battle is a must have if a majority of your party is in any way or another actually optimizing. Still good, a heck of a lot of fun, but not vital otherwise.

Magic of Incarnum is a bit peculiar to learn, but as my sig suggests I absolutely love at least one of the classes :smallbiggrin:

Tome of Magic should be chosen at a very late stage, if at all, it is not at all that good, with the exception of the Binder, but has some very interesting flavor.

Expanded Psionics have a more balanced and logical caster system (to me) than core, and as such is also a must have. It is in the SRD so it's merely a matter of reading it though.

[Tempest Fennac]

http://www.dandwiki.com/wiki/SRD:System_Reference_Document covers the Expanded Psionics Handbook, and http://www.crystalkeep.com/d20/index.php is great for classes, spells, feats and races, but it doesn;t mention Psionics, and it's useless for PrCs due to only listing the first 2 levels. Due to the fact that Complete Psion and Tome of Battle aren't covered by those sites, you may want to get them. Tome of Magic is good for Binders, and the 2 House of Horror classes (Archivists and Dread Necromancers) are detailed on WotC's website ( http://www.devinweb.com/spells.htm features the DN's spell list). Magic of Incarnum is good if you want something completely different, but a lot of the stuff in it is weak.

[Red_Random]

I second (third? eighth?) PHB2. After you've got the "big three", it's got the most general selection of good stuff, and offers some excellent class options. It goes out of its way to fix some of the silly stuff in the PHB (don't want a familiar? Trade it in for something useful!) and tries (doesn't nessicarily succeed) to balance out the classes a bit.

After that, go for the Complete books, starting with your favorite classes and working your way out from there. Warning- there are a lot of them, they're not particularly cheap, and you're certainly not going to use them all on the same character. If you can find a stable gaming group, maybe you can each get one you're interested in most and share.

After that, the Spell Compendium and Magic Item Compendium are good stuff if you're willing to wade through a heck of a lot of Random Crap to get to the gems.

Finally, I can't recommend Tome of Battle. It's... well, it's an entire new series of spellcasting classes. It comes with a whole seperate magic system and set of spells, only for warrior classes. Simply put, it's dense and un-intuitive, for all that I hear it finally gives warriors an even break with wizards at higher levels. It'd be kinda like dropping Psionics into the game- a whole new set of rules, items, and things for the DM to keep track of, for just one or two of the characters.

Anyway, that's my two cents. Really, feel free to buy whatever strikes your fancy.

[Nohwl]

the only problem with crystalkeep is that there are a few mistakes here and there.

the spell compedium and tome of battle would be good books to buy.

[Tempest Fennac]

Are the mistakes on CK usually that much of a problem? (I know some of the Dragon Magazine items which are on there are really overpowered for their cost, such as Woodland Boots, but I haven't seen anything too major elsewhere.)

[Kaiyanwang]

It's true that Barbarian, Ranger, Monk, Fighter and Paladin meld pretty well with Crusader, Warblade and Swordsage. But I'm posting again because I think Complete Scoundrel hasn't been brought up enough. Skill tricks are such a fabulous mechanic! They give skill monkeys effective extra "feats" that are limited but fun and really add another degree of value to having skills and help all the classes a great deal.



Well in CS even [Ambush] feats are not that bad. In Dragon Magazine there are more of them, someone very powerful (for my tastes and gamestyle, at least), but Concussion Attack can make wonders, if you are enough skilled an lucky.


Like many have mentioned:

Complete Warrior, had a lot of stuff that was rather subpar (the Samurai class being the worst of the lot), but also had some really awesome stuff (Tactical feats).



I can only agree about Samurai (WHY they didn't updated Oadv one? And the Iaijutsu Focus Skill, BTW:smallfrown:) but CW goodies are not only the excellent Tactical feats, IMO.

Some weapon style is very good (Three Mountains can be a significant part of a Strenght based Mace Fighter build).

Further, CW supported Combat Reflexes and Combat expertise very well.
I like the concept of warrior switching round after round from a "standard" stance to a sudden, surprising increase of AC, again to a sacrifice stance allowing him to devastate the enemy of AOOs. Maybe you need DrMagaz, PHII and similar to optimize this, but CW planted the seeds for this.

Rant:

CW nerfed an awesome feat from 3.0 masters of wild, Power Critical (from 1 automatic crit threat /day, to +4 to confirm criticals. I admit that since the book introduced powerful charging feats, this has a sense but... bohohohooooo :smalltongue:

[kamikasei]

It'd be kinda like dropping Psionics into the game- a whole new set of rules, items, and things for the DM to keep track of, for just one or two of the characters.

Actually, one of the things I like about both those books is that characters made with them have less to keep track of than many. Sure, a warblade has more abilities to write on his sheet and keep in mind during combat than does a fighter. But a psion has so many fewer powers than a wizard or cleric - and a martial adept fewer again - and neither able to change them except at level up, that in practice it's much easier for a DM to know what his players can do and thus anticipate that when planning encounters. It also gives the player a lot of freedom and options in play without the paralysis of choice that can come of sitting your cleric down in the morning to pray.

The core rules that a DM has to remember for either book are very few (how does augmenting work? No more than your ML in PP per power, remember what costs psionic focus, and, uhm... I'm honestly drawing a blank on important fundamental rules for ToB), and after that it's just a matter of making sure you and your players understand the specific abilities they've chosen.

[Telonius]

I'd say, in order of importance...

PHB2
Tome of Battle*
Complete Warrior
Complete Arcane
Complete Scoundrel
Complete Divine
Eberron campaign Setting

*Only if your melee players are unhappy with their power level. If not, move it down to last on the list.

I include Eberron because of the Artificer class and the new races (Warforged, Shifter, Changelings, Kalashtar). The Eberron fluff you can take or leave.

The only reason Arcane is ahead of Scoundrel is the Warlock class.

[MoelVermillion]

Alright, I'm heading up to my local games store tomorrow to see what they have in stock. I think I'll make PHB2 a priority as well as complete scoundrel and spell compendium as they sound like they suit my current group. I'm going to also have a look through the other books that were recommended and see if anything catches my eyes.

@ Tempest Fennac: Thanks for the links, both sites seem pretty comprehensive, I'll be sure to give them a thorough read.

Thanks for the help everyone, it's much appreciated. Hopefully this will satisfy my players for the time being.

[kalt]

Spell Compendium, Magic Item Compendium, PHB II, and any Complete would be the place to go. If your group loves melee characters the tome of battle gives a lot more depth to melee classes.