[CUTE] Imaginal Plane Redux

[belboz]

OK, this is related to the post I just added to the Storybook Hero evaluation thread, but I realized it's really a separate topic. We're not currently evaluating the Imaginal Plane, so nothing that goes on in this thread is *binding*, but I wanted to raise some questions so that, as we continue evaluating other things, we have a rough idea about where we might eventually want to go with this fairly central concept, so that we can keep it in mind when deciding other things.

The two big questions are:

1) What's the difference in nature and experience between the Real World, the Imaginal Borderlands, and the Deep Imaginal, and
2) How does one go about moving from one of these zones to another?

---------------

Here are my current thoughts...they're just sort of the impression I've gotten over our long discussions, and were not, I think, established in stone anywhere. So they're even more open to debate than everything else, which is pretty open.

Nature of the planes:

The way I'm thinking about it, the Real World is a fairly boring place, with no imaginary elements. I don't want to say "no fantastic elements," because someone might still want to set even the real world in a fantasy universe (perhaps a standard D&D campaign world), but no elements that are unique to CUTE.

The Imaginal Borderlands are co-extensive with the Real World, much as the Etherial plane is in standard D&D. When you shift into the Imaginal Borderlands, you're still in real-world locations, but they're generally...different. Some things that are there in the Real World will disappear, some new things will appear, and some things will be very different--and usually far stranger.

The Deep Imaginal is *not* co-extensive with the Real World, but touches the Imaginal Borderlands in various places. When you're in the Deep Imaginal, you're in totally new and wild places.

Some examples:

Alice in Wonderland:

The real world is the countryside near Oxford. It's beautiful, but from a fantasy perspective not terribly exciting.

The imaginal borderlands are in the exact same place--the countryside near Oxford--but it's *different*. Most different about it is the fact that waistcoat-wearing white rabits with pocketwatches occasionally run through it. One in particular has a hole that's big enough for a small girl to climb into. The hole opens up into a well, which is actually a portal to...

A monarchy called Wonderland, located in the deep imaginal. Once Alice is down the well, she's no longer in a fantastic version of England, she's in a totally new place.


The Lion, the Witch, and the Wardrobe:

The real world is the Pevensie residence. It has a wardrobe in it. It's a perfectly ordinary wardrobe.

The imaginal borderlands are still the Pevensie residence, with the same wardrobe, only the wardrobe is much deeper, and the back gives way to...

Narnia, a region in the deep imaginal. Again, nothing to do with the Pevensie house, especially because, unlike inside the house, it's *snowing*.


Peter Pan

The real world is London, in the late 1940s.

The imaginal borderlands are the same, with two notable exceptions: There's this guy who likes to fly around with a pet fairy, and children can fly under certain circumstances. When you fly in a certain pattern over the ocean, you find yourself in...

Neverland, an island in the deep imaginal, not corresponding to any real island.

-----------

OK, gotta go now. Thoughts on transitions later.

[Elrosth]

I think that sums it up pretty well. You should also take into the consideration Yuki brought up, about "Consensus Reality". In the borderline areas, things are real just because they are. Everybody knows that.

Real world - there is an empty room with a big old chair in it. The chair, obviously, does nothing.

Borderline - "The chair is growling at me!" "No it isn't, honey, chairs don't growl."

Deep - The chair is growling at you. And possibly eating a kid.

That's getting a bit more into the dark aspect of the dream world, but you get the idea. In the borderline, some kids can see stuff happening that adults simply "know" can't happen. Things don't happen in the borderline unless you think they can.

[belboz]

That's actually a bit different than the picture I had above. The chair, doing whatever it might be doing, even eating a kid if you want to get really dark, would still be in the border imaginal...because the deep imaginal wouldn't contain the room at all. The deep imaginal wouldn't be an imaginary version of the room, it would be somewhere entirely other. (Compare the etherial plane, which has all its places in common with the material one, but where you might see different creatures, with, say, an outer plane, which is just a different world entirely.)

I think Yuki's idea was a bit different too, although he should correct me if I'm wrong. It was a way to deal with "leakage" into the real world...what happened when an imaginary object or individual made it all the way out of the imaginal plane (even the borderlands) into the regular universe. The reason adults wouldn't comment on it would be consensus reality--they just wouldn't see it. The reason adults don't comment on the imaginal borderlands is separate--it's that, by and large, they can't *go* there.


OK, now my promised thoughts about transitions. One suggestion that's been floating around is an Imagine check, to transition to the imaginal borderlands and/or enter the deep imaginal from them. I actually think this is a bad idea, because...what happens if one of the PCs fail this check?

If the DM has written a story that takes place deep in the realm of imagination, and one of the PCs can't get there...well, that player gets to wander off and play WoW that night. That strikes me as a very non-ideal situation. Ability to participate in a story should not depend on chance.

Here's my thought instead:

-Transitioning to the imaginal borderlands should be possible for anyone who has at least one rank in Imagine; all it takes is a moment's concentration. That means all PCs should have one rank in Imagine...but really, in a game based on imagination, nobody should be going around with no Imagine ranks. It also means that adults, who in general cannot get ranks in CUTE skills, cannot generally get into the imaginal plane.

-Going from the imaginal borderlands to the deep imaginal (and returning) should be plot-driven. At one point I came up with this very complex system for how the transitions are made, but I don't really like that system any more. I'm just thinking more along the lines of the examples above: There are certain ways (such as by going through a particular portal or by travelling along a particular route) that you can make the trip from the borderlands to the deep imaginal...and those ways are up to the individual DM. But they involve *doing* something or *going* somewhere--they're not just a matter of making a skill check. Similarly, there are ways of getting back...which might be as simple as reversing your route, or even, in some particularly peaceful parts of the deep imaginal, deciding that you want to "stop pretending," or getting out might be much harder than getting in. Again, up to the DM, but there's no "get out of the deep imaginal" skill, feat, or ability.

[Yuki Akuma]

There could easily be a "Get out of the deep imaginal" spell, though.

And yes, my "consensus reality" idea was for why adults don't notice anything imaginary leaking into the real world. They don't exist, so they don't see them.

[Elrosth]

I really have to stop posting on sleep deprivation...

Oh well. At least I'm serving as a contrast for the useful information. :)

[Shiny, Bearer of the Pokystick]

This is by no means my final word on the subject, but my specific thoughts on your particular questions at the moment, are:
1.
The real world is just that. It is solid, verifiable, real, etc.; unless we are speaking of a "real" fantasy world inhabited by elves et. al., magical powers do not exist in the real world. C.U.T.E. characters are unable to utilize their cute skills, feats, class abilities, or spells, except as they relate to activities that are possible in the real world as we know it, i.e. running, jumping, climbing; even skills that might seem to transfer (such as diplomacy) do not, as the persuasiveness of a child in the imaginal is largely a product of their strength of will and the peculiarities of their environment- a three-year-old saying "Won't!" quite likely believes he is very persuasive, but he is not going to win a diplomacy check against an adult. C.U.T.E. items are ordinary items, without special properties, in the real world.

The imaginal borderland operates, as suggested, in a manner similar to the ethereal plane; it corresponds (though not exactly) with some real-world location, acting as an 'overlay' of imaginary forces on that location. Only especially sensitive individuals, such as children, are capable of detecing the transition to the borderland, or indeed, of sensing the borderland at all; adults and other individuals without imaginal abilities may shrug off a vague sense of 'difference' but otherwise do not experience the effect. By contrast, children are inclined to experience an imaginal borderland as a different place, though one possessed of many similar features to the real world location they have 'left'. Their cute skills, feats, and spells function, but only as long as they apply them to each other (that is, to those with imagination) or to imaginal or partially imaginal creatures; if an adult enters the room, they will appear to have been "just pretending". A character is still linked to the real world while in the imaginal borderland, and therefore is not in any real danger- damage dealt to them is primarily dealt to their psyche, and thus is 'healed' instantaneously by a return to reality upon 'death'. Creatures and supernatural effects in the imaginal borderland are generally manifestations of existing items or phenomena (such as a loose closet door or a teddy bear) given new characteristics (such as an inhabited ghost or sharp claws) by the force of the character's imagination. As the imaginal borderland is still real, however, and these characteristics are imaginary, they fade as soon as 'reality' is restored.

The deep imaginal can, but does not necessarily, correspond to a real-world location. It operates similarly to the far realms; it is 'distant' in planar terms from the real world. The deep imaginal, when it does contain real-world analogues, generally contains pieces of a location from all the times that location has ever existed- for instance, a london-analogue of the deep imaginal would contain both present-day and victorian features. The deep imaginal may be sentient; time and space are subjective within it and seem to be linked to the state of mind of the inhabitants of a given area. C.U.T.E. skills, items, spells, feats, and class features all operate consistently and logically in the deep imaginal- they are 'real'. Characters without imagination cannot enter the deep imaginal, as the only routes lead through imaginal borderlands. The deep imaginal is experienced as a completely different, seperate world from the real one- even when analogues of real-world places exist, they are different in every concievable way. While in the deep imaginal, it is possible to invest sufficeint conciousness in one's imaginal self to recieve real damage; a character may die in the deep imaginal and be really, truly dead in some sense. While in the deep imaginal, it is possible to retain a physical form back in the 'real world', but it is also possible to travel bodily to the imaginal realm (DM's discretion). Characters who remain too long in the imaginal plane, or whose physical bodies suffer harm in the real world, may retain an existence as imprints on the imaginal fabric- apparently 'real' children distinguishable only by the fact that they cannot leave the deep imaginal, and are very vulnerable in the borderlands.

2.
Most imaginal borderlands can be created and traveled to with a moment's imagination; as long as no-one is around to disbelieve the imaginary aspects of the area, that area retains them. Anywhere, barring rare zones of especially dense reality, can become an imaginal borderland if sufficient mental energy is invested to make it so. However, most of the time, these effects are temporary- when the creators of the borderland 'stop pretending', it cease to be an imaginal place and returns to full reality.

By contrast, some especially imagination-stimulating areas, such as certain parts of london, fairy rings in the woods, basements and attics, hedge mazes, etc., are invested over time with enough imagination that they become permanent borderlands, ley lines of unreality- anyone with imaginal capabilities can enter such a zone simply by walking into it normally, and immediately recognizes it as 'different' though not necessarily as what it is. Permanent borderlands cannot be dispelled by anyone capable of experiencing them; while the prescence of an adult still causes them to behave as non-imaginal zones, children in a permanent borderland cannot 'stop pretending' and thereby dispel it, as the amount of energy it contains is stronger than the energy they would put into such a desire.

Generally speaking, the only entry into the deep imaginal is through permanent borderlands; they function as conduits for the energy necesary to pierce the planar boundary. Usually, to phase from the borderland to the deep imaginal, a minor effort of will- often simply a wish to go deeper into the dream- is needed, to 'juice', as it were, the transfer membrane sufficiently to allow the traveler to pass.
The effort of will need not be specifically directed at entering the deep imaginal, indeed, the traveler need not be aware of its existence; a wish to "run away" or "go someplace new" fulfills the same purpose.

....my two (hundred) cents.

By the by, folks, are we going to finish up the storybook hero anytime soon?

[Yuki Akuma]

I agree with the verbose lantern archon.

Hm. How much of this would the children themselves know? Obviously they don't need to know the games they play are actually "real" (in the very loosest sense of the word).

Although.. would a child who entered the Deep Imaginal be aware that he's not in the real world at all anymore?

[Elrosth]

On the lack of transfer of CUTE abilities to the real world. I should warn you this time, take my statements with a grain of salt. I'm going to sleep directly after posting this.

I was thinking the other day about this topic, and I wondered what type of skills a kid would actually have in the real world. They don't yet have any class skills, and yeah they don't have an adult's skill in anything, but they seem to manage to do some things pretty well anyway.

First off, it's a commonly known thing that children are unusually resilient and heal much more quickly than an adult. This is particularly surprising given how soft and frail their bodies are physically. [cue grain of salt] Could this possibly be represented by the CUTE class hit points or something? Maybe as a larger range of subdual damage capacity, or maybe using the CUTE level to determine how many hit points they recover naturally during rest?

Secondly, the diplomacy skill. Yes, children aren't going to engage their parents in an invigorating debate on some sort of intellectual topic, or have the charismatic pull that an adult leader might, but they still have means by which they can get their way. How would this child-diplomacy be represented? [go ahead and grab another grain] Once again, could this be represented by CUTE class skills?

I'm not saying a kid could take a greatsword to the gut, or talk the president into signing a peace treaty, but if you reinterpreted some of the uses, could they still use some of their skills and abilities somehow in the real world?

[Shiny, Bearer of the Pokystick]

I agree with the verbose lantern archon.

Hm. How much of this would the children themselves know? Obviously they don't need to know the games they play are actually "real" (in the very loosest sense of the word).

Although.. would a child who entered the Deep Imaginal be aware that he's not in the real world at all anymore?
I'd say they have a different definition of "the real world", and only accept the conventional one when they grow up and lose their C.U.T.E. abilities.
Since children don't deal in concensus reality, they consider both the ordinary, workaday, adult world, and the fantastical world of the deep imaginal, to be " the real world".
Since to them, it's the same state of being (more or less) they'd characterize the shift from real world to deep imaginal as one of geography, rather than state of mind. They know they've gone someplace, but they think of it as different because everywhere is different; downtown is different from home in the suburbs, here is different from down at the beach.

Elrosth, I'd say that you have a point; I think a larger capacity for subdual damage is pretty reasonable, but I'd have to get some second opinions on anything else.

As to their skills; they do have ways of getting what they want, true enough- my framework is based on the idea that those methods are most effective on other kids, and least effective on adults.
So...maybe 1/2 ranks when dealing with adults on those few skills that can be transferred, and most skills are just disbarred entirely?
Also maybe a penalty for being 'just a kid' on diplomacy checks (but not bluff checks)?

[Yuki Akuma]

...Kids heal quicker than adults because kids still have extremely active stem cells. It's not really that remarkable. They're still growing, and healing is just growing things back after they've been damaged.

Although, on that note, it may be an idea to give the kids a higher healing rate than adults. Perhaps 2 hp per day per level instead of the usual 1?

[Shiny, Bearer of the Pokystick]

...Kids heal quicker than adults because kids still have extremely active stem cells. It's not really that remarkable. They're still growing, and healing is just growing things back after they've been damaged.

Although, on that note, it may be an idea to give the kids a higher healing rate than adults. Perhaps 2 hp per day per level instead of the usual 1?
Works for me.

[Yuki Akuma]

Completely off-topic, but... does anyone else find it odd that a wizard with a -3 Consitution penalty only takes a single day to heal to top health, whereas a barbarian with a +4 modifier can take up to two weeks?

Also, we need a new sandbox thread, the old one is bloated and slow now. I could start it, or we could get Belboz or Shiny to do it...

[Shiny, Bearer of the Pokystick]

Completely off-topic, but... does anyone else find it odd that a wizard with a -3 Consitution penalty only takes a single day to heal to top health, whereas a barbarian with a +4 modifier can take up to two weeks?

Also, we need a new sandbox thread, the old one is bloated and slow now. I could start it, or we could get Belboz or Shiny to do it...
Eh....I suppose it's odd from a certain point of view, but I look at it this way: the wizard was frail to begin with. Healed, he's....still frail. Healers look at him and say "Well, we did our best".
A barbarian healing is like replating a large tank- it takes a while, and when you're done the product is really heavy.

As to the new sandbox thread; I can start if, you guys like. Or whoever.

[Yuki Akuma]

If you do start it, be sure to link to the old sandbox, the compendium, the finished content thread, the evaluation methodology thread and the current evaluation thread(s). ;)

Anyway, back on topic.

I think we're pretty much universally satisfied with the way travel in the Imaginal Plane works...

Now... perhaps we should decide on the denizens of the Imaginal Plane, and whether they can escape into the Real World or not.

The Imaginal Plane could easily be the source of legends about fairies and angels and goblins...

[Shiny, Bearer of the Pokystick]

Anyway, back on topic.

I think we're pretty much universally satisfied with the way travel in the Imaginal Plane works...

Now... perhaps we should decide on the denizens of the Imaginal Plane, and whether they can escape into the Real World or not.

The Imaginal Plane could easily be the source of legends about fairies and angels and goblins...
I would say that usually, they can only escape into imaginal landscapes that exist in the real world, such as dreams.
However, since we've already established that investment of psychic energy over time creates permanent borderlands, by extension, a greater degree of the same phenomenon can create zones that contain deep-imaginal elements but are part of the real world; for instance, if all the children of multiple generations in a given village are afraid of a forest, that forest is sufficiently invested with psychic energy that it becomes inhabited by child-eating bridge trolls.

Such creatures, in such zones, would be specific to the zone in the real world, but could be a large population in the imaginal; usually, the forest would be inhabited only by the trolls, no other imaginal creatures would leak through- the investment of psychic energy is specific to a single, fear-inducing creature. Similarly, a grove where every child feels safe could have angels, but not goblins, most likely; again, the breach is specific and tied to the emotion that created it.

I'd say that in such imaginal bleed-through zones, which should be extremely rare, creatures from the imaginal plane are completely real, and in the deep imaginal, of course, they are also real.
I'd say that creatures with imaginal characteristics, but originating in the real world (such as gaurdian toys) should be completely real in the real world (though perhaps not embodied as they are in the imaginal) and mostly real in the deep imaginal- and that our characters could be considered in the same light.

Also, I'd say it's a bit early to consider us all 'universally satisfied'; I'm waiting for meph's thoughts, meself, and maybe belboz, and hopefully some new people. Fingers crossed.
Also again, I'm going to go ahead and start a new thread. Hope you like it.

[Yuki Akuma]

So...

What happens when an adult walks into a Deep Imaginal bleed-through area? Does he see the angels and trolls? Can they hurt/heal him?

[Shiny, Bearer of the Pokystick]

So...

What happens when an adult walks into a Deep Imaginal bleed-through area? Does he see the angels and trolls? Can they hurt/heal him?
Offhand? I'd say yes, and yes.
Most of the time, however, such adults
A. Die.
B. Consider it a religious experience.
C. Are derided as crazy (fairy photographs, anyone?).

New thread is up, partially.

[belboz]

Also, I'd say it's a bit early to consider us all 'universally satisfied'; I'm waiting for meph's thoughts, meself, and maybe belboz, and hopefully some new people. Fingers crossed.


I'm very happy with what we've come up with. I think Shiny's suggestion differs from mine in only one substantial way: the plot-driven portion is finding a permanent borderlands area, rather than a portal to the deeps. But that's not a difference that makes a difference, as far as I'm concerned. A couple of things that, I assume, were intended to be compatible with the idea, but might be best made explicit:

1) Bleed-through zones are officially "very rare," but a particular DM still has the option to rule them out entirely from their campaign. Actually, how common they are depends on how surrealistic you want to make your campaign world. We might want to specify how to deal with these menaces...if our PCs lose most of their skills, a relatively minor imaginal creature will become very dangerous indeed. Your level 15 CUTE party should be eating, say, Zombears for breakfast...but if they run into one while they're just ordinary (or almost ordinary) little kids, it will be *bad* news.

2) When talking about "adults", we need to be clear (in general) that we're talking about *real* adults. There might well be adults in the imaginal plane--not regular adults who have found their way there (except in very rare circumstances), but imaginal natives.

[Yuki Akuma]

I think that, in any place that an Imaginal creature could exist, children would also have their Imaginal powers available to them.

Even if adults are watching them.

Which would be an awesome final battle in a CUTE campaign; protect your parents from the Big Bad who just broke into the Real World.

[Shiny, Bearer of the Pokystick]

I think that, in any place that an Imaginal creature could exist, children would also have their Imaginal powers available to them.

Even if adults are watching them.

Which would be an awesome final battle in a CUTE campaign; protect your parents from the Big Bad who just broke into the Real World.

*nods*
Yes, that's correct. Deep Imaginal bleed-through zones are deep imaginal- therefore not subject to disbelief.

Belboz, that's correct- and that's one of the reasons bleed-through zones exist, to provide an option (though, as stated, a very rare one) for DMs to use as an alternative challenge.
You're also correct- I mean adults who originate and reside on the real world prime material plane.

[Fax Celestis]

Imaginal Borderlands as the Plane of Shadow works for me.

What doesn't really line up for me is the kids losing all their powers outside. It makes a certain sense, but if the Borderlands are all-pervasive (like the Planes of Shadow, Ethereal, or Astral), then the kids are never outside of an imaginal area.

Instead of stripping them of their powers, perhaps coupling a system similar to V:tM's Masquerade or W:tA's Lunacy with the kid's powers would be more effective.

That is, "if any CUTE powers are used in the presence of an adult who does not have ranks in Imagine, Concensus Reality kicks in, the kids appear to have performed something dangerous/illegal/bad, and they are going to get a severe talking to/thrashing/punishment."

In essence, you can. It's just not particularly a good idea.

[Shiny, Bearer of the Pokystick]

Imaginal Borderlands as the Plane of Shadow works for me.

What doesn't really line up for me is the kids losing all their powers outside. It makes a certain sense, but if the Borderlands are all-pervasive (like the Planes of Shadow, Ethereal, or Astral), then the kids are never outside of an imaginal area.

Instead of stripping them of their powers, perhaps coupling a system similar to V:tM's Masquerade or W:tA's Lunacy with the kid's powers would be more effective.

That is, "if any CUTE powers are used in the presence of an adult who does not have ranks in Imagine, Concensus Reality kicks in, the kids appear to have performed something dangerous/illegal/bad, and they are going to get a severe talking to/thrashing/punishment."

In essence, you can. It's just not particularly a good idea.

Well, it's not so much that the borderlands are all-pervasive, it's more that they have the abilty to be anywhere. At any given time, an area is more likely to be real (barring conditions as described); however, the influx of imaginal power from children can transform it, temporarily, into an imaginal borderland, unless an equally powerful influx of mental energy stabilizes it.

However, I like your idea better, so we're revising to make that canon. Concensus reality masquerade it is.

[Fax Celestis]

However, I like your idea better, so we're revising to make that canon. Concensus reality masquerade it is.
Woot.

[belboz]

OK...but I wasn't thinking along *either* of those lines, exactly.

In the picture I was trying to present, it wasn't quite that the imaginal borderlands *were* everywhere, just that they *touched* everywhere. To use the ethereal comparison, you're always in the same spot as a spot on the etherial plane, but you're not always actually *etherial*. You can shift to being etherial without really moving, but it *is* a shift of some sort.

The bleed-through areas might be different; places where the real and imaginal aren't just co-extensive but *the same*.

Think of the imaginal plane and the material plane as two pieces of plastic wrap sealed to each other. They're always touching, and where there's a wrinkle in one, there's a wrinkle in the other, but they're distinct. You can always hop from one to the other, but it is a hop--one that requires the Imagination skill. Bleed-through zones are places where the sheets have actually melted together; there's no hopping to be done. Just wander into one of those zones, and you're in the imaginal borderlands. And the prime material, at the same time, because in those places, there's no distinction.

[Shiny, Bearer of the Pokystick]

It's less that they're everywhere, and more that children create a manifest zone of them wherever they go, pretty much. Which can be disrupted by adult interference.

[Yuki Akuma]

I think I prefer Belboz's idea.

I don't like the thought of the Imaginal Plane being entirely a creation of imagination; I'd prefer if it's always been there, and is just so highly mutable that it bends to the whim of every thought and daydream.

And, of course, the kids also bend to the whim of the Imaginal...

[Shiny, Bearer of the Pokystick]

I think I prefer Belboz's idea.

I don't like the thought of the Imaginal Plane being entirely a creation of imagination; I'd prefer if it's always been there, and is just so highly mutable that it bends to the whim of every thought and daydream.

And, of course, the kids also bend to the whim of the Imaginal...
Hm.....that does give us a better justification for site-based adventures.

And that second part gave me good-kind shivers.

I'm going to try and synthesize the two somehow, I already have an idea how...

Okay, here's what I'm thinking:
Total bleed-through areas are both real and imaginal simultaneously, and either kind of ability functions equally well there. These areas cannot be disrupted in any way. They are very rare.
Permanent borderlands, those that are the product of considerable emotional investment, are borderlands to anyone with any ranks in imagine (that is, anyone with imagination, that is, any child).
A check is not required to 'enter' one and use imaginal abilities, and real abilities, of course, function normally. They are comparatively rare.
Transient borderlands are those that require a 'hop'. An imagine check (probably against a fairly low-to-mid DC) by someone is necessary to enter the borderland in an area that is not always borderland, that is 'transient' in imaginal terms. Party members may assist their fellows on this check ("See, it's moving!"). Such demiplanar bubbles are partially creations of the people who transfer to them, and partially permanent manifestations of the deeper truth of the Imaginal; for instance, two groups of different children both enter the Imaginal through the same closet. The closet will always be deep, dark, and somewhat scary- however, the precise monsters and precise geography of it will be different for both groups; the Imaginal is permanent, but pliable, responsive to will.
Similarly to the method by which children hop into the transient borderlands, adults can abjure them to hop back; when children are attempting to enter the borderland or remain in the borderland and an adult comes upon them, they make opposed charisma checks (very likely with positive situational modifiers on the adult side, and negative on the child side). If the adult is sucessful, the children are pulled back into full reality; it may be they appear to have been 'just playing', making mischief, or simply lying around, but their imaginal abilities will not be visible to their parent (because they're impossible); the child will see the same thing the parent does.. If the child wins the check, they may continue as before, and the parents sees them (more than likely) as doing one of the above things, while they see their imaginal forms. If the Parent fails the check particularly severely, they may lose a bit of reality's grip and see the imaginal manifestations of their chlidren; if this happens, they are likely to be shocked into some form of denial mechanism and precipitously depart.

[Elrosth]

Nice.

"Billy, come on out, it's time to eat! Billy? Where-"
*pauses, turns around*
"I knew it... those extra shifts are driving me insane. HONEY, I'M GONNA NEED ADVIL AND VODKA!"

[Fax Celestis]

An imagine check (probably against a fairly low-to-mid DC) by someone is necessary to enter the borderland in an area that is not always borderland, that is 'transient' in imaginal terms.
See also: Crossing the Gauntlet (Werewolf: The Forsaken).