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Fendalus
2009-01-31, 12:31 PM
Ok, our group is in a bit of a tight spot. Our Ranger accidentally released a swarm of zombies and a necromancer, and we managed to retreat to the town. We have 15 minutes to prepare before the zombies hit, and reinforcements should be arriving 30 minutes from then. Our party is level 3.

We are up against 1 ogre zombie at half health, 5 troglodyte zombies, 10 orc zombies, 10 hobgoblin zombies, 20 goblin zombies, 20 koblod zombies, and one necromancer we believe is at least level 7.

We have on our side 20 level one warriors (town guard) who fight sword and board style (we can get them bows from the town, but they don't have any currently). We also have 3 level 7 druids, which I doubt are in any way shape or form optimized (lacking animal companions as far as I can tell, no variant taken for that, and I have no clue if they will even use wildshape). We also have one cleric of unspecified level and his three assistants, three level 3 archer mercenaries, one level 4 sword and board mercenary, and one level 5 warrior mercenary (all in our employ). The town has light wooden walls around it, and the temple of Ehlonna is the only semi-defensible location in the town. The town is surrounded by lightly forested hills. We also have one magic enhancing circle at the gate the zombies are heading to, which doubles the effect, range, and duration of any spell cast within 10 ft of it.

Our party consists of a Halfling Wizard(me, Conjuration specialist), an Elven Ranger (archery), a Half-Orc Druid(camel companion), a Bard(race unknown), and a Dwarf Rogue. All except the rogue are level 3, and the rogue is level 2.

If anyone has any suggestions as to how to kill the zombies and defend the town, they would be heavily appreciated.

evil-frosty
2009-01-31, 12:39 PM
have the druids cast entangles and spike growths where the zombies are coming and just pick them off. And try to bottleneck them as much as possible in the gate.

Who_Da_Halfling
2009-01-31, 01:13 PM
That's....kinda a lot of zombies....

The fact that they're heading for a gate is promising, you can use the magic enhancing circle to harass them as they charge you. The archers can play support and should probably target the necromancer if they can see him (btw, is this a Necromancer, or a Cleric/Wizard/other spellcaster who just likes the Necromancy school?). The warriors can stand in the gate, attracting the zombies to them. Zombies have no Int, so hopefully they will act on instinct and attack the visible targets (the warriors) who have the best chance to be able to hold them off with magical support.

How big is the gate? I doubt 20 lvl 1 Warriors can be much help there. It may be best to have them cover your bases and place them on a sentry rotation around the walls to make sure you don't get flanked. The Necromancer, if he's smart, could direct some of his forces to attack a wall and create a second entrance. The warriors should either watch the walls, or they should make and protect a path to the Temple. If there's enough of them, they can do both. How big is the town? That way, if you do get flanked or if they punch through the gate, you'll be able to beat a retreat to the Temple without worrying about attacks from all sides.

Your mercenary troops should really take the brunt of the attack since none of your party seems to be built as the tank. The rogue will be nigh useless against undead, so he should be watching the walls for a surprise attack. The only combat usefulness he may have is to sneak attack the necromancer, but that will probably not happen for long enough that he can rush back from whereever he was and join the melee.

Good luck with it, sounds like a pretty epic encounter.

-JM

Nohwl
2009-01-31, 01:43 PM
arent zombies limited to one action only? kite them. double move for one turn, and then shoot them with a bow for the next. the necromancer is the only one you have to worry about.

RS14
2009-01-31, 02:35 PM
arent zombies limited to one action only? kite them. double move for one turn, and then shoot them with a bow for the next. the necromancer is the only one you have to worry about.

Yeah. If the necromancer shows himself, slaughter him with a hail of arrows and spells. Get 15 of the warriors bows; you should be able to do up to 18d8 per round, depending on how well they shoot. Wind Wall will likely be beyond his ability to cast, and Protection from Arrow absorbs a limited amount of damage.

If he doesn't, kill the zombies this way. They should at least be easy to hit. Beware of the Ogre zombie; it has a move speed of 40ft.

Edit: Ooh, zombies who fail their reflex save against Entangle can't escape at all! They can't take full round actions.

Gust of Wind will stop most of them for one round.

Soften Earth and Stone would be great if you can find a large area of wet ground.

Summon Swarm could be awesome if the necromancer is within short range.

Thinking about this more, I think it will be most fun if you let the NPCs deal with the zombies. Help them plan; they're better equipped to fight them. You all should sneak around, or just break through, and go kill the necromancer.

ericgrau
2009-01-31, 03:07 PM
Zombies have DR/slashing. Unless those are composite long bows, they'll be averaging 0.75 damage per hit. With 16 HP it'll take an average of about 20 arrows to drop one. And as NPC warriors they might have a +2 or +3ish to hit the zombie's 12 AC, about 50%. You're looking at 1 down every 2 rounds. If you could find some throwing axes for slashing damage you could maybe drop 1-2 zombies per round once they get close. But bow range will be more useful if the necromancer ever shows his face. If you can't get throwing axes I'm thinking this is going to be mostly a melee fight, or a very very long-lasting range fight.

Visibility is maybe 200 feet in a sparse forest, plus whatever difference between the forest and the town. So that's 5-6 rounds of closing plus however long you can hold them back.

You could try lots and lots of lantern oil on the ground, lit after the zombies arrive. 1 pint per 5 foot square, 1d3 per round for 2 rounds. About 25% of the regular zombies' health if you can get them in it. This may be a wee bit of a forest fire hazard or wooden wall hazard, depending on how the brush is near the town.

PinkysBrain
2009-01-31, 03:18 PM
Any holy water in the temple? Those druids can summon up a small army with SNA BTW.

Unless that necromancer is optimized (the destruction retribution feat is pretty nasty for instance) it seems a pretty easy win.

Llama231
2009-01-31, 03:29 PM
Fire+Run=Win

I would suggest geting a defensive position, and prepare for a seige.
What other resources in the town do you have access to?

Avor
2009-01-31, 03:34 PM
Lead the civilians and NPCs out of the town and towards the direction the reinforcemrnts are comeing from. Since zombies are not super fast, you should be able to meet up with friendlies before the zombies catch up. Also, since some zombies are faster than others, different zombies types will engage you one after the other as they get to you, and haveing yout come at you like that is prefered.

Another thing, Zombies have 5 DR/slashing. So arrows with do **** all. A damage roll of 6, 7 or 8, will only do 1, 2 or 3 damage. And even the Kolbold zombies have about 16 hp

TempusCCK
2009-01-31, 04:19 PM
Barricade the gate as best as possible, get reach weapons. Zombies can't climb your barricade, so slash them as best you can while the magic users entangle and attack the others.

Try and hinder their movement toward you as best as possible. Godspeed.

Alleine
2009-01-31, 04:30 PM
Don't forget to tell us how it goes!

Prometheus
2009-01-31, 08:45 PM
Ooh, zombies who fail their reflex save against Entangle can't escape at all! They can't take full round actions.

I think they just take two single-actions. I think this is based on RAW somewhere, but I cannot remember where I read it.

Starbuck_II
2009-01-31, 09:08 PM
Ok, our group is in a bit of a tight spot. Our Ranger accidentally released a swarm of zombies and a necromancer, and we managed to retreat to the town. We have 15 minutes to prepare before the zombies hit, and reinforcements should be arriving 30 minutes from then. Our party is level 3.

We are up against 1 ogre zombie at half health, 5 troglodyte zombies, 10 orc zombies, 10 hobgoblin zombies, 20 goblin zombies, 20 koblod zombies, and one necromancer we believe is at least level 7.

We have on our side 20 level one warriors (town guard) who fight sword and board style (we can get them bows from the town, but they don't have any currently). We also have 3 level 7 druids, which I doubt are in any way shape or form optimized (lacking animal companions as far as I can tell, no variant taken for that, and I have no clue if they will even use wildshape). We also have one cleric of unspecified level and his three assistants, three level 3 archer mercenaries, one level 4 sword and board mercenary, and one level 5 warrior mercenary (all in our employ). The town has light wooden walls around it, and the temple of Ehlonna is the only semi-defensible location in the town. The town is surrounded by lightly forested hills. We also have one magic enhancing circle at the gate the zombies are heading to, which doubles the effect, range, and duration of any spell cast within 10 ft of it.

Our party consists of a Halfling Wizard(me, Conjuration specialist), an Elven Ranger (archery), a Half-Orc Druid(camel companion), a Bard(race unknown), and a Dwarf Rogue. All except the rogue are level 3, and the rogue is level 2.

If anyone has any suggestions as to how to kill the zombies and defend the town, they would be heavily appreciated.

What spells allowed (what sources)?
Ray of Stupidity would be great versus the Necromancer (if arcane caster).
Burning Sword is a good buff for the rogue or Bard (in melee).


But Conjuration spells will do best:
Grease, Glitterdust, etc.

Zombies are bad at dex check (since I doubt they have ranks) and blind zombies aren't much a threat.
Summon Spiders (small or meduim) if can spare a round will web an enemy.

Doresain
2009-01-31, 10:22 PM
get as many warriors as you can to stand around the gate using full defense, with the clerics behind them using heals and turn undeads to make things easy

druids should stand on the walls with archers to "soften" them up with spells and arrows

keep an eye out for the ogre zombie though...its size coupled with its strength could make it a potential siege engine against those wooden walls

the main question is, does killing the necromancer stop the undead horde or merely make them free-roaming undead?

Starbuck_II
2009-01-31, 10:26 PM
get as many warriors as you can to stand around the gate using full defense, with the clerics behind them using heals and turn undeads to make things easy

druids should stand on the walls with archers to "soften" them up with spells and arrows

keep an eye out for the ogre zombie though...its size coupled with its strength could make it a potential siege engine against those wooden walls

the main question is, does killing the necromancer stop the undead horde or merely make them free-roaming undead?

Undead that are no loner controlled follow the last orders given: so assuming the Necro said kill the town: they would do that.

It depends on what the Necro said. A mindless undead with no order ever=never does nothing.

Doresain
2009-01-31, 10:34 PM
It depends on what the Necro said. A mindless undead with no order ever=never does nothing.

i always assumed that non-controlled mindless undead just went into "kill everything alive" mode

rampaging-poet
2009-01-31, 10:41 PM
I think they just take two single-actions. I think this is based on RAW somewhere, but I cannot remember where I read it.

PHB page 142, under Start/Complete Full Round Action. Basically you can take a standard action to begin a full round action on one turn and then take another standard action the next turn to finish it.

As for how to take out the zombies, you've already got some good suggestions. Arrows won't get through the damage reduction, but you know what does? Energy damage. Use alchemist's fire or acid if you've got any. Otherwise, light some oil on fire and chuck it at them. Maybe flaming arrows if your DM will let that do anything.

Defend that magic circle until the necromancer is dead. Once he's out of the picture, you can fall back to the temple if you have to. However, you do not want him casting spells from inside the thing.

Eldariel
2009-02-01, 04:26 AM
With 3 level 7 Druids, you've pretty much won the fight before it begins. Tell them to "do something" and the Zombies will either be screwed or dead. Seriously, the few suggestions here already slaughter those. And get the bows (shortbows if you're feeling cheap). Who cares if they have DR; you have a Wizard, so cast Flame Arrow a few times to cover all of their arrows, maybe some Greater Magic Weapons or such, and burn the mother****ers. Your Ranger should be able to pick 'em off really quickly too, and if you opt to use magic like Black Tentacles, you should be able to disable the bunch of them. Just maintain a bunch of potent offense such as Orbs of Force (preferably metamagicked), Call Lightning and such to hit the Necro from afar once he shows up.

And yes, the real opponent is the necromancer. Zombies aren't much of a threat; they're a distraction. Don't be surprised if there's more where they came from, and don't worry if the Necro has stronger allies than mere sacks of flesh. I'll repeat, if you knock him out, the zombies will pose no threat whatsoever.

Learnedguy
2009-02-01, 04:34 AM
Burn the forest.

edit: Wait, it said lightly forested hill. Then burning it might be a bad idea.

I should really do something about that knee-jerk reaction of burning something as soon as I get into trouble:smallredface:

Talic
2009-02-01, 05:09 AM
Note: Information may be incomplete.

If necromancer is a cleric, fight gets more difficult, as healing is possible.

At all costs, keep the necromancer from reaching that circle of enhanced magic. Things could get icky. I recommend using the party to block the gate, and combine entangle with other means at your disposal to limit the advance of zombies.

In fact, in a pinch, a couple entangles can be used to create a "virtual gate", if you need to fall back, by making a thin passable patch between 2 entangles.

Keep your low level fighters in reserve, firing arrows and such into the ranks of unengaged zombies, to soften them up.

Any Area damage spells that your party has can certainly help at this point, weakening large numbers of them.

Teron
2009-02-01, 01:11 PM
Lead the civilians and NPCs out of the town and towards the direction the reinforcemrnts are comeing from. Since zombies are not super fast, you should be able to meet up with friendlies before the zombies catch up. Also, since some zombies are faster than others, different zombies types will engage you one after the other as they get to you, and haveing yout come at you like that is prefered.
Go with this. Give everyone a bow and as many arrows as they can carry and have them pincushion the necromancer if he shows his face; none of the zombies will be able to catch up until you let them. Keep everyone spread out at all times, even while fleeing when he shouldn't catch up, so they don't get slaughtered by a single fireball or some such. Make sure not to leave any mounts in the town; while you don't have time to take everything useful, that kind of mobility is one advantage you definitely can and should keep from the necromancer.

When it's time to fight, here are a few thoughts:

- The archers are the core of your forces. They may not be efficient against the zombies, but they should be untouchable in open terrain. Your tactics should focus first on protecting them from the necromancer, and second on enhancing their effectiveness. Everyone who can't do something more useful every round, including some of the PC's, should have a bow. Daggers and other ranged slashing weapons are even more valuable, but don't try to get close enough to use them; save them for approaching zombies. Everyone should also have a melee slashing weapon, because **** happens, but if all goes well they shouldn't be needed.

- If level 1 warriors do end up in melee, they should fight defensively or even use total defense and let the tougher, stronger combatants bail them out if at all possible. Anyone who can take a couple of hits counts as a tougher combatant for that purpose, even the mercenary archers. Remember that move-and-shoot is plan A, B, and C, though, with anything else being a desperate measure for unforeseen circumstances.

- Keep the civilians near the fighting. The zombies won't be a real threat to them, and the necromancer won't target them over combatants unless he's the kind of bastard who might go after and slaughter them if you let them out of your sight.

- Keep everyone scattered! There's not much you can do to stop the necromancer from dropping a few targets of his choice if he really wants to, but don't let hit a bunch of people with a single spell. If he does try, he should expose himself to mass archer fire, especially if he tries a spell with less than long range. If he is sighted, everyone should target him regardless of distance unless approaching zombies force them to relocate out of range, but it's better to shoot him with over several range increments than to deal low damage to avoidable zombies.

- The other troublesome enemy is the ogre zombie; while it can be avoided with double moves, its speed might occasionally force some of your group to do that instead of moving and shooting, which is annoying but not terribly problematic. Still, drop it first unless the necromancer is open to attack. Also, don't assume it's still damaged as the necromancer may have healed it with negative energy (even an arcane caster might have the means to do it).

- Large scale combat means the bard gets to shine! Well, kind of. He won't deal more damage than any other archer, but every archer will benefit significantly from Inspire Courage. An extra point of damage will go a long way to overcoming the zombies' damage reduction and, along with the increased accuracy, should help you drop a lot more zombies before you run out of arrows. Likewise, bless would be useful if any of the cleric can caste it, since it can affect any number of targets (casting it is the one time when everyone should cluster together to increase the number of people affected).

- Speaking of running out of arrows, if that looks to be a problem, characters who use them more efficiently, whether because of a higher attack bonus or some kind of extra damage, should be kept supplied at the expense of the level 1 warriors, and feats like rapid shot that fire more arrows less accurately shouldn't be used. Making shots count is more important than making a lot of them against everything but the necromancer, since he should be the only enemy who can actually hurt anyone. Aside from him, it's better to take your time and drop as many zombies as possible before you have to engage the rest in melee. If necessary, you can even lead the zombies in a big circle and pick up unbroken arrows (50% of the ones that miss) and thrown weapons a couple of times to keep up your supply.

- While the NPC druids' ability to manipulate the terrain would be invaluable in a siege, you shouldn't need it in a running battle against the zombies. Consider instead having them wildshape into eagles and attack the necromancer. Even without any optimising for that purpose, they should be able to drop him unless enough zombies interfere, especially if he's a squishy arcane caster. He'll probably have a bodyguard, but if the druids can disable those zombies with their spells, even if it requires them to return to human form, they should have a shot at the necromancer. They should have slings if possible so they can damage the necromancer if he runs, get entangled, or the like. Also consider giving them magic items and buffs that other characters, including your party, don't need against the zombies, because pulling off this assassination is the most important contribution anyone can make if the necromancer doesn't expose himself to archer fire (in which case, he has to split up the zombies to retain a bodyguard, so that's a plus). Depending on circumstances and the expected toughness of the necromancer, it may be a good idea to have other characters on mounts join them on this hit; if he's wearing armour, he's almost certainly a cleric, in which case he'll be tougher in melee but less threatening at a distance, and some archers on mounts should kill him easily (the PC druid's camel might be useful for this if the town lacks combat-worthy mounts).

Beyond that, it would help to know what spells you and the other casters have available, as well as scrolls and other noteworthy magic items, so we can offer more relevant advice. The nature of the reinforcements you'd be meeting up with might also affect your strategy.

ericgrau
2009-02-01, 01:19 PM
I think they just take two single-actions. I think this is based on RAW somewhere, but I cannot remember where I read it.

Ya, two standard actions, as mentioned. But zombies seem to only get a move action or an attack action each round, not a standard action. But that smells of loophole cheese to me; it's up to the DM whether they get stuck or spend 2 rounds breaking free.

Otodetu
2009-02-05, 05:56 AM
i always assumed that non-controlled mindless undead just went into "kill everything alive" mode

I have always wondered about mindless undead behavior myself; as i have interpreted it mindless undead will simply stand still, but defend themselves unless other orders are given.

A skeleton does only what it is ordered to do. It can draw no conclusions of its own and takes no initiative. Because of this limitation, its instructions must always be simple. A skeleton attacks until destroyed.

Because of their utter lack of intelligence, the instructions given to a newly created zombie must be very simple.

A creature with no Intelligence score is mindless, an automaton operating on simple instincts or programmed instructions.


As written a zombie can have any behavior pattern the DM finds fitting, as it might "act on simple instinct" (kill the living) or be just like a skeleton and "act on programmed instructions"

Nowhere does it state specifically what a zombie does if uncontrolled/order less.

A skeleton on the other hand functions exactly like a golem.

Tacoma
2009-02-05, 07:17 PM
So you have 15 minutes of waiting and then 15 minutes of the zombies at the walls before reinforcements come. You don't want the necromancer to reach the casting circle at the gate. If you leave to meet reinforcements you might not be able to defeat the necromancer after he captures the circle. Remember it's always harder to attack.

I suggest you first equip all the town guards with bows and station them on the roofs of buildings inside the walls near the casting circle. Because the roof either has a lip around it if flat or a peak to hide behind they should have pretty awesome cover opportunities while shooting at any zombies who scale the walls or bust down the gate.

Your party and all casters should be stationed inside the circle, protected by the other non-caster fighting dudes. The casters should set up battlefield control spells like Entangle and Grease to funnel the zombies. They might not be smart enough to go around but the ones who enter the area of effect will take a lot longer to pass through. You can have your ranged attackers pick off the zombies as they come through the channel to the gate. Set up a long-duration fire spell such as Flaming Sphere to roam around and cause lots of damage, using your archers to pick off heavily wounded zombies one by one. Destroy one zombie before attacking the next one. You're trying to blow most of your spells now while you're in the circle. If you're forced out of the circle, destroy it before the necromancer reaches it.

This assumes the necromancer will just walk his troops straight up to the gates. If he hangs back and acts sneaky, send out fast-moving NPCs (on horseback maybe) to harrass the zombies and take them out in melee when they can get them in relatively small groups. Flee when they start to take some damage and get healed up back in town. You can't animate a pile of broken zombies again unless you re-attach all the parts, right? Eventually the necromancer will be goaded into either attacking or fleeing.

Fire is your friend. If you can convince your DM that the flaming arrow trick is worth a +1 fire damage you'll go a ways in getting around the zombies' damage reduction.

Make sure you scatter sentries around the walls to make sure the necromancer isn't attacking from a different direction.

Finally, when your reinforcements arrive send out a bunch of NPCs to meet them and go attack the necromancer together outside the walls. It's possible these "reinforcements" are actually on his side and you don't want to take that chance. They don't need to come into the city to kill the necromancer. Accept no argument from the reinforcements. They can come in once they've proven their loyalty.

Epinephrine
2009-02-05, 10:02 PM
If the druids have Plant Growth (and one should, it's a great spell) it limits speed to 5'. And the druids can ignore a plant growth, allowing them to move around easily. 5' movement with a 150' radius half circle to get through = 30 rounds for a zombie to make it through.

Jimbob
2009-02-06, 07:50 AM
Did any body mention protection from Evil?? Think at a time like this, casting as many of these would be very handy.

Armads
2009-02-07, 02:30 AM
Spells can win this battle by themselves, and the warriors are useless at doing anything other than shooting at the necromancer, due to the DR 5/slashing.

If you have access to Necromancy, Command Undead (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/commandUndead.htm) will take out the ogre instantly. If you cast it at the magic-enhancing gate thing, you can double its range and have the ogre bash the necromancer. It gets no save against the spell, but you have to tell all your allies not to attack it or the spell will break.

If that isn't possible, having the 20 level 1 warriors shoot the necromancer from far away can also work. If the druids all cast Call Lightning and target the necromancer, 9d6 damage instantly (or 18d6 if the circle doubles damage too) will probably kill him too.

Zombies are pretty worthless, 1 action/round means that you can just stay out of their charge distance and laugh. Also, if the druids cast Flaming Sphere (augmented by the circle?) and have it roll around, the fight will end pretty quickly. Sleet Storm also reduces mobility by a ridiculous amount.

Messing around with Silent Image can also be effective in leading the horde away from the town.

Irreverent Fool
2009-02-07, 06:51 AM
I have always wondered about mindless undead behavior myself; as i have interpreted it mindless undead will simply stand still, but defend themselves unless other orders are given.

There is no clear answer in D&D whether the risen dead destroy life instinctively or merely follow orders. Personally, I prefer the undead to inherently be an antithesis of life since they are animated with negative energy. In other words, they are probably just going to kill every living thing unless told to do otherwise... babies, townsfolk, kittens, carrots.

The Tome of Necromancy (http://forums.gleemax.com/showthread.php?t=632562) breaks down the different ideas and has recommendations for keeping verisimilitude.

obnoxious
sig

SoD
2009-02-07, 07:35 AM
I'd reccomend getting a bunch of warriors blocking the gateway in the heaviest armour you can get, combined with tower sheilds (or heavy sheilds), taking the total defense action, with warriors behind them armed with guisarmes (a martial reach weapon dealing slashing damage, get archers with flaming arrows (either from a spell cast by the halfling conjuror, or just normal fire), to knock out the ogre. If you can't get firey arrows in any way, shape, or form, get them to wait and target the necromancer. Get people throwing alchemists fire/acid flasks. Get the clerics to turn undead/heal, and the druids to wildshape/summon stuff/heal. Get people patroling the town IN GROUPS, to make sure the undead don't break in. You should easily survive the 150 rounds until your allies arrive.

Sincerely,
SoD

Graymayre
2009-02-08, 09:08 AM
have the druids hide where the necromancer will go past. if he sits in the back, they can destroy him. If he sits in the front you can destroy him.

Hell, it would only take one druid to grapple and rip him to pieces (wildshaped of course)

Either way, the druids should be able to nerf the zombies with entangle and whatnot.

The question is what happens to the zombies when their controller dies? I think that they just lose targeting perogatives and attack everything, but I'm not sure.

Be careful with your dead bodies too, don't give the necromancer an opportunity to raise dead ones already inside the town.