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Avor
2009-01-31, 08:17 PM
Ok, I need help to optimize a non-human samurai(Oriental Adventures). The class itself is lack luster,and the bonus feats are limited

So far this is all I got, what feats can I use to make this class less pitiful

Level 1
-Quick draw
Level 2
-Bonus feat-Armour prof. heavy
Level 3
-Dodge
Level 4
Bonus feat- Power attack
Level 5

Level 6
-Karmatic strike
Level 7
Bonus feat- Improved Sunder
Levelv 8

Level 9
-Combat Reflex
Level 10
Bonus feat- mobiliy
Level 11

Level 12
-
Level 13
Bonus feat- sping attack
Level14

Level 15
-
Level 16
Bonus feat-
Level 17

Level 18
-
Level 19
Bonus feat-
Level 20

TheCountAlucard
2009-01-31, 08:32 PM
What books are allowed?

Avor
2009-01-31, 08:49 PM
What books are allowed?

Pretty much anything is a go I think.

Swooper
2009-01-31, 08:50 PM
And why must it be a samurai? Are you stuck with that class all 20 levels or are dips or prestige classes allowed?

Edit: If anything is a go, I'd say "go with warblade instead of samurai and you're good" but that's too obvious, there has to be a point to this...

MammonAzrael
2009-01-31, 08:55 PM
Step 1: Use my ToB Samurai (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?p=4274953) class instead.

Step 1a: convince your DM to allow homebrew that isn't broken.
Step 2: Kill things.
Step 3: Profit.

That's right, you don't even need the ??? step!

But on a serious note, if your DM won't allow homebrew, I'd say...drop Dodge, Mobility, and Spring Attack. And forget your Wakazashi. 2-hand your Katana, and Power Attack things into oblivion, picking up Combat Brute, Leap Attack, and Shock Trooper. Improve your Intimidate abilities by picking up Skill focus (Intimidate), Imperious Command, and the Fearsome enchantment for your armor. The skill trick Never Outnumbered is quite useful too.

EDIT: As Swooper asks, why Samurai? If you just want the flavor, take a lesson from OotS: You don't have to have levels in the class to call yourself a Samurai. Just take the class you think best fits, mechanically, and call yourself one.

Avor
2009-01-31, 10:30 PM
And why must it be a samurai? Are you stuck with that class all 20 levels or are dips or prestige classes allowed?

Edit: If anything is a go, I'd say "go with warblade instead of samurai and you're good" but that's too obvious, there has to be a point to this...

I'm pretty set on the OA samurai. It is so often a class that is over looked, I feel the need to see how good it realy can be, and then see what I can do with it.

I've just had a thing for samurai class ever since I had orc samurai in a campain Once did. It was funny, the PCs called them Sam-orc-hai, after the Urk Hai


But on a serious note, if your DM won't allow homebrew, I'd say...drop Dodge, Mobility, and Spring Attack. And forget your Wakazashi. 2-hand your Katana, and Power Attack things into oblivion, picking up Combat Brute, Leap Attack, and Shock Trooper. Improve your Intimidate abilities by picking up Skill focus (Intimidate), Imperious Command, and the Fearsome enchantment for your armor. The skill trick Never Outnumbered is quite useful too.

I would need to keep dodge to keep karmatic strike, I was going 2 handed anyways. I'll look up those feats.

afroakuma
2009-01-31, 10:40 PM
Well, if you need a non-ToB samurai, you could try the one that's linked in my sig. But I assume your heart's set on El Sucko from OA.

monty
2009-01-31, 10:43 PM
Well, if you need a non-ToB samurai, you could try the one that's linked in my sig. But I assume your heart's set on El Sucko from OA.

Well, it could be worse. At least he's not set on the CW version.

Malacode
2009-01-31, 10:44 PM
Smurai, eh? A Smurf Samurai would be pretty awesome in almost every way. You did say non-human right?

I'm sorry, that miserable attempt at light heartedness failed in almost every way.

MammonAzrael
2009-01-31, 10:56 PM
OA Samurai is certainly superior to the CW version, so you have that going for you at least. But remember, it seems overlooked because it is an extremely weak class. Not the concept of a Samurai, but the class called Samurai. So if you find that you're less impressive than you'd like, talk to your DM and see if you can change out the Samurai class levels for something more effective, but continue to call yourself a Samurai. :smallsmile:

If you're looking at Karmic Strike, then I'd suggest first picking up an alternate Dodge feat (either Expeditious Dodge or Desert Wind Dodge, as IIRC they are both superior).That also means that you'll be wanting lots of AoO, which requires different feats. You'll certainly want Robilar's Gambit at 12th...

You know what? I suggest you check out the Fighter's Handbook (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?p=5722927&posted=1#post5722927) and look at the feats suggested for the Two Handed Weapon Primary Style and the AoO and Charging Secondary Styles. They can lead to very different builds, but the recommendations are solid.

Personally, I'd recommend going with the Charging Style, as you'll probably be more successful with that than AoO. And a Crusader will own you (or nearly anyone, for that matter) as the king of the AoO builds. But really, whatever fits your concept best is the most important!

Oh, and the suggestions related to Intimidate were meant for a CW Samurai, not an OA Samurai. For some reason I forgot halfway through my post which one you were playing. :smalltongue: Since the OA Samurai gets nothing special in regards to Intimidate, you can forget those. Hmm...you could also see if your DM woul let you mesh the two classes together, and get the stuff from both. Still wouldn't be over-powered, IMO, or even very powered.

But if you're interested in the Intimidate stuff, Imperious Command in in the Drow of the Underdark book, Fearsome is in the MIC, and Skill Tricks can be found in Complete Scoundrel.

Innis Cabal
2009-01-31, 11:04 PM
I mean this in all honesty. Go Iajitsu master. It is totally worth it, you lose almost nothing and gain a whole lot.

Con't listen to the other people telling you the OA samurai sucks, its a great class and is a very fun time, but gaining Iajitsu Master is really just an awsome move, and you only lose a few of those limited feats.

sebsmith
2009-02-01, 12:11 AM
If your willing to go Iajutsu master, then your goal should be to break Iajutsu as hard as you can while using it for as much as you can. From everything I've heard, you should get quite an effective build.

Avor
2009-02-01, 01:09 AM
Ok, I'll take a look into that stuff, and get back to you all tommorow.


I'm sorry, that miserable attmpt at light heartedness failed in almost every way.

It's called rolling a rolling a 1 IRL.

sonofzeal
2009-02-01, 01:14 AM
If you want to be as "authentic" as possible (speaking as a person who practices Iaido), I highly recommend this homebrew PrC (http://forums.gleemax.com/showthread.php?t=1025790). Highly playable, historically accurate, and not nearly as controversial as ToB.

MammonAzrael
2009-02-01, 02:00 AM
If you want to be as "authentic" as possible (speaking as a person who practices Iaido), I highly recommend this homebrew PrC (http://forums.gleemax.com/showthread.php?t=1025790). Highly playable, historically accurate, and not nearly as controversial as ToB.

Umm...you know that not only is that a base class, not a PrC, but it uses ToB maneuvers. It is a ToB class.

Adumbration
2009-02-01, 03:37 AM
If you have the old Sword and Fist book, you should look into the Master Samurai. It's only worth it for 4 levels, but it gains you some cool stuff, including twice your strength modifier to damage when you 2-hand your katana.

The Glyphstone
2009-02-01, 11:51 AM
I thought the OC samurai was actually considered fairly decent because of its Kensai-esque ancestral weapon ability that got bonuses for free. It's not Wizard or ToB-level power ,but it's head and shoulders above the Fighter and the April Fool's joke printed in the beginning of CWar.

Talya
2009-02-01, 12:22 PM
the OA samurai is a decent class, for a pre-TOB melee type. Even with TOB, it's a great 2 level dip. Its signature class ability (Ancestral Daisho) is character-level based, not class-level, so it multiclasses well. It has high fort and will saves, meaning a two level dip gives a substantial boost to those saves. And there's that bonus feat at level 2, which is usually better than taking fighter 1 because of the 4 skills per level instead of just 2.




Iajutsu Master is a good PrC, too.

The Glyphstone
2009-02-01, 12:35 PM
Char-level based? No wonder it's so sweet, that's insane.

If the OP can take the only good lesson Miko taught us to heart, a 2-level dip in the OA Samurai, a bit of Fighter, then going into Iajatsu Master would be the best career path.

sonofzeal
2009-02-01, 04:44 PM
Umm...you know that not only is that a base class, not a PrC, but it uses ToB maneuvers. It is a ToB class.
Ah, forgot about the ToB parts, sorry my bad. But "base class" shouldn't be a big concern, all that means is that there's 20 levels of it to take.

Avor
2009-02-01, 04:53 PM
I thought the OC samurai was actually considered fairly decent because of its Kensai-esque ancestral weapon ability that got bonuses for free. It's not Wizard or ToB-level power ,but it's head and shoulders above the Fighter and the April Fool's joke printed in the beginning of CWar.

The bonus is not free, you need to sacrifice gold/items in order to upgrade.

And a fighter can spend a feat, Book of Exalted Deeds, feats, Ancestral Relic.


If you have the old Sword and Fist book, you should look into the Master Samurai. It's only worth it for 4 levels, but it gains you some cool stuff, including twice your strength modifier to damage when you 2-hand your katana.

In order to do that I would need to tale all these feats.

Level 1
Improved Initiative
Level 2
BF- Power Attack
Level 3
Mounted Combat
Level 4
BF- Cleave
Level 5

Level 6
mounted archery
Level 7
BF- Wep focus


So in order to be a master samurai I would need to take alot of feats that I realy havr no intention of useing. It's a very big pricee to pay for an extra 2 damage.


Iajutsu Master

The class itself is very stat dependent. And requires you to play an agile fighter. The first thing they get is weapon finesse and canny defence(add Int bonus to AC when not wearing armour).

I think I will still make an armoured smashy samurai, but I will also make a second one, make up a human, samurai and fallow the Iajutsu path

Talya
2009-02-01, 09:37 PM
The bonus is not free, you need to sacrifice gold/items in order to upgrade.

Which, thanks to getting full value for the random loot items you sacrifice, is cheaper than making them yourself (assuming you had the spells and item creation feats, which since you're a melee type, you don't.) Also doesn't cost you experience, like kensei or making them yourself does.


And a fighter can spend a feat, Book of Exalted Deeds, feats, Ancestral Relic.

True. But apart from the different alignment restrictions and the fact that ancestral daisho is two weapons rather than just one, fighter levels aren't as good as OA Samurai levels. Fewer skill points, lower saves...the Samurai 1 is superior to Fighter 1 with Ancestral Relic.

Avor
2009-02-02, 02:40 AM
Ok, need help with the agile samurai. I liked the leap attack thing so I worked that in, or should I fallow the whirlwinds attack path. As the plan is, there gaps at level 12,15, and 18

Level 1
- Power Attack
- Weapon Focus Katana
Level 2
-Bonus feat- Quick Draw
Level 3
-Leap of the Heavens
Level 4
Bonus feat- Improve Intitive
Level 5

Level 6
-Leap attack
Level 7
Bonus feat- Improved Disarm
PrC-Levelv 1/8

PrC Level 2/9
- Improved Critical
PrC Level 3/10

PrC Level 4.11
Bonus feat- Skill focus
PrC Level 5/12
-
PrC Level 6/13

PrC Level 7/14

PrC Level 8/15
-
PrC Level 9/16
Bonus feat- Improved Trip
PrC Level 10/17

Level 18
-
Level 19

Level 20
Bonus feat- Dodge

Kaiyanwang
2009-02-02, 03:19 AM
Iajutsu Master is a good PrC, too.

Yeah. And with few flick of the wirst feats or skill tricks, as well as with blurstrike weapon enhancements, you can do nasty things (even if you will add you Char to Iaijutsu damage dices only if you use a katana).

A friend of mine used if with TWF and oversized TWF, but I don't rmember if the class per se allows this style it or was homebrew.