"Children" [spoiler]

[Kaelaroth]

Opinions on V's "children". Now!
Is he referring to the order? Or to Pompey. Who?!

[Khaeta]

well, V is supposedly married, so... why not? Maybe they're at home or something after some spat...maybe they're some random NPCs... Who knows?

[FoE]

I think the dragon is being literal. Remember that V was married, and because elves have such a long lifespan, it's possible V had children a century or two ago and the offspring have since matured.

[charl]

Maybe the dragon plans on giving V an abortion... we still don't know the elf's gender after all.

[Morty]

V's grimace of utter shock leads me to belive s/he indeed has got real children the dragon might target. I don't think it's Pompey though; he's a half-elf and V's story implies his/her mate is another elf.

[Spiryt]

V is Haley's real mother/father. Elf genes are just very recesive in her. That's the reason why V wants to be close to Haley, and tries to contact her at all cost.

:smalltongue:

No, spoiler isn't really necessary.
And no, I'm not high.

[The_Void]

I have nothing constructive to add to the discussion. I only have three letters.

O!

M!

G!

But seriously, I think the dragon was being literal, judging by the look on V's face.

And no, I don't think it's Haley. That's just dumb.


It's clearly Belkar. :belkar:

[Mauve Shirt]

V is Haley's real mother/father. Elf genes are just very recesive in her. That's the reason why V wants to be close to Haley, and tries to contact her at all cost.

:smalltongue:

No, spoiler isn't really necessary.
And no, I'm not high.

Heh, that fits with the "I'm not exactly human" bit somewhat. :smalltongue:

No, Miko is of course V's daughter, so the dragon will be disappointed.

[T-O-E]

And no, I'm not high.

You sure about that? :smalltongue:

[Haruki-kun]

Well, I hadn't given it much thought, but come to think of it... S/he's over a hundred years old. S/he probably didn't spend all that time studying. :smalltongue:

I don't think the dragon was being metaphorical or promising anything for the future. I think it's safe to assume that V indeed has children. And the dragon plans to kill them now.

[Mina Kobold]

I just think they're too strong (wouldn't it be fun if the dragon thinks it will be easy and then finds herself laying on the floor with several wands of disintegrate pointing at her)

[Optimystik]

Alternatively, it could mean V's "unborn" children. Meaning she's about to tie V's tubes, or give him a vasectomy. Without anesthetic.

...I need an adult...

[The Neoclassic]

OMGWTFBBQ.

I think that sums up my reaction fairly well.

Yup, I'm going to go with literal, currently existing children. I wonder if they've shown up in the comic yet? Maybe, maybe not.

I admit, I'm a little annoyed at this new subplot, since so many others are still unresolved. That's how it goes though, I suppose. :smallannoyed:

[Spiryt]

You sure about that? :smalltongue:

My theory is still messed up And I know why, 'cuz I got high
Because I got high.

[TheSummoner]

It amazes me that even though many people guessed the exact details of who the dragon was and how it tracked down V, the giant still manages to drop such a major surprise twist in the comic...

Honestly though, V having children really isn't that far-fetched... We knew he had a mate, and we knew hes quite old by human standards. Its possible hes much different around his family, preferring to keep work and home lives separate...

[OITS]

Hmm... 2 things:

At first, it will be pretty difficult to show us more about V's "real life"^^, without revealing HER!!!! gender. So maybe, if this scene could be avoided, it's time for the 4 words. "No! Kill me instead." "Oh yeah - have fun." "It won't resurrect him" "I love nacho cheese" - something like that...

[Lykainon]

Hmm... 2 things:

At first, it will be pretty difficult to show us more about V's "real life"^^, without revealing HER!!!! gender.

Not that difficult, at least assuming V's mate is equally androgynous. As long as they don't actually show the kids being born, we should be able to get some back story without being any wiser about V's gender.

Of course, if the kids actually shows up it would be logical for them to shout out "Mommy!/Daddy!" to V but I'm sure the Giant can figure out some way around that.

[David Argall]

Let's see... V is 103 or 130. That is about 21 or 26 in human years. She has led a rather sheltered academic life until fairly recently. Children is rather pushing it, but not beyond reason. [However, we may see why V's age was pushed up to 130. Our writer may have gotten this idea of avenging mom after 103 had been used, and deemed it best to "correct" that.]

Children, literal elf kids, is highly likely to be the correct idea here.

[Tingel]

Of course, if the kids actually shows up it would be logical for them to shout out "Mommy!/Daddy!" to V but I'm sure the Giant can figure out some way around that.

I doubt that the children of Vaarsuvius are young enough to behave like that. It's more likely that they are adults.




Let's see... V is 103 or 130. That is about 21 or 26 in human years. Children is rather pushing it, but not beyond reason.
Elf years are just as long as human years. Having lived over a hundred years, Vaarsuvius would have had time to father dozens of children if he were so inclined, while still being able to study magic. Treating "elf years" and "human years" as two different concepts seems absurd to me.

[hamishspence]

while core D&D elves begin as wizards at age of over a century, + human wizards begin in their twenties, that doesn't equate to "100 year old elf = 21 year old human"- both the novels and Races of The Wild point out they age at almost the same rate as humans to maturity, then their aging slows right down.

However, if you wanted, you could play a 30 year old elf mage as equivalent of a twenty year old human.

However, in OoTS, this may not apply. Given that the normal elven aging has been slowed right down at the beginning, we don't know what the equivalent age is.

(the slow aging joke was also used in Zogonia)

[Prince_Selm]

SPOILER! (Sorry, I don't know how to make a spoiler box on this forum.)


To me, it's very obvious that the dragon is going to fly V to the Elven Homelands and murder his/her literal children in front of him/her. Then my earlier theory of "The people in the boat go to the Elven Homelands because in War and XP's it specifically states that the Elven Homelands are both, allies of Azure City and across the sea from it." kicks in and we get a dramatic entrance followed by a major dragon battle!

[Sylphy]

Considering their long like span I have thought elves were not the most fertile of beings. Most having about 1-2 children their entire lives. For V to be barely beyond adulthood it seems hard that /she would of had time to father/mother/hatch a child let alone children. Maybe its more of a dragon curse, like saying she will wait around for centuries until V's children are born then kill them. I mean the dragon has a pretty long lifespan too.

[hamishspence]

its like this

[spoil.er]your words[/spoil.er]

But without the dots.

[hamishspence]

100 is normal start age for marriage and children, 200 is normal finish age, gestation period is nine months. In Races of the Wild, anyway.

Note exceptions exist in novels- some elves continue to have children very late in life.

And OOTS may modify these numbers.

[Ikialev]

So, now we know that V is female.
Or male.
Or a hermaphrodite, 'cuz eric's mom is his dad.
Or neither, considering adoption...

DAMN YOU GIANT

[Jeivar]

I gotta ask: Why is everyone so shocked that V has kids? We don't really know anything about hir, so why WOULDN'T s/he have kids?

Although it does shoot down my tentative theory that V is a gay man . . .

[Kaytara]

Elf years are just as long as human years. Having lived over a hundred years, Vaarsuvius would have had time to father dozens of children if he were so inclined, while still being able to study magic. Treating "elf years" and "human years" as two different concepts seems absurd to me.

Not quite. We see in Origins a 19-year-old Vaarsuvius who is barely more than a toddler and a 43-year-old V who is obviously a child when he becomes apprenticed to Aarindarius. Presumably adolescence came the next few decades after that. Elves do not mature as quickly as humans so V did not in fact have all of those years' time to start a family. Also, V spends 60 years in apprenticeship until he is kicked out because his master is worried that V is becoming isolated from the world, so it's safe to assume he probably didn't* know* anyone at that time. Which leaves V, what, 30 years' time to find a mate and have some children, if we assume he is indeed 130? V himself says that he knew his mate for years before marrying so logically any children should be barely more than infants at this time. Which is why I stand by my assumption that Vaarsuvius is a bit older than 130.


Let's see... V is 103 or 130. That is about 21 or 26 in human years. She has led a rather sheltered academic life until fairly recently. Children is rather pushing it, but not beyond reason. [However, we may see why V's age was pushed up to 130. Our writer may have gotten this idea of avenging mom after 103 had been used, and deemed it best to "correct" that.]

To be more precise, V's age in Blues was given as '130?', with a question mark. As I just said, V may easily be a couple of decades older than that.
I think it's possible that Vaarsuvius lied on his application card as a means of distancing himself from his family life, perhaps in order to protect them.

[SPoD]

Although it does shoot down my tentative theory that V is a gay man . . .

The children could be adopted.

In fact, this could be true even if V and his mate are opposite genders. It would have the extra benefit of sorting out some of these age/timing issues, because children could be adopted at any age, not just as infants.

EDIT: Or, the children could be V's mate's kids from a previous relationship, which would also make V's age irrelevant.

[Myou]

Although it does shoot down my tentative theory that V is a gay man . . .

Funnily enough, that's my hope.

That would be both awesome and entirely possible. After all, in real life a gay man can adopt and in the future there will likely be technological methods he could use.

In a magic setting like this one it just takes a polymorph for a gay couple to have kids (better keep preparing it each day for the pregnancy though). Although they aren't going to enjoy it the way a straight couple would. xP

Oh how I hope V is a gay man. :3

[Kish]

while core D&D elves begin as wizards at age of over a century, + human wizards begin in their twenties, that doesn't equate to "100 year old elf = 21 year old human"- both the novels and Races of The Wild point out they age at almost the same rate as humans to maturity, then their aging slows right down.


This annoys me. It strikes me as serving little purpose except to arbitrarily declare ~21 the age of maturity for everyone because, after all, humans are the baseline.

More importantly for OotS :smalltongue:, Vaarsuvius made a reference to decades in diapers in OtOoPCs, so I'm pretty sure elves don't rush to adulthood in the OotS universe, and I'm not saying that because I wish ill to whichever D&D writer came up with the idea of them doing so in any universe.

Well, not just because of that.

Edited to add the context which would have been directly above my post when I made it if not for the forum lag.

[Rutskarn]

It is, of course, plausible that he's going to kill V's children as soon as V has any.

[Kaytara]

It is, of course, plausible that he's going to kill V's children as soon as V has any.

V's look of horror indicates that the dragon's threat is a very real and immediate one, not something that he will have decades' time to prevent.

[lord_khaine]

but the most likely explanation is still that V allready has children.
we allready know V is married, and it really wouldnt make sense for the dragon to threaten them unless they allready exist.

else the dragon would be very very optimistic, in assuming that V would both survive long enough as an adventure, and not hunt the dragon down, or disapear from the face of the earth, something thats not impossible for a wizard as mighty as V.

[Starscream]

I have to admit, I can't think up any obvious explanation for this other than V having actual kids. Especially not one that would cause him/her to react with such obvious shock and horror.

As for the Haley theory, well I was going to suggest that she might have a pointy ear or two underneath her hair, but her recent unwilling makeover would probably have revealed it. So I'm going to go with "no". And seeing as we already have seen Haley's father, that would Make V her mother, and I doubt The Giant is ever planning to make such a direct confirmation of V's gender.

I doubt it's Pompey either. I've always felt it was implied that V's mate is another elf.

[Ricky S]

I think you are all missing the point here. Look at the title. That almost conclusively proves that V is a mother. Unless in some it is refering to the dragon but it is V is that situation. It is I suspected! V is a girl!!! Now I know why I thought she was so attractive, because she was a she. :smallbiggrin: (That last statement will really bite me if V is a guy).

[dogmac]

My initial reaction was

V has kids?

My secondary reaction was

Yeah, why not?

[Kish]

I think you are all missing the point here. Look at the title. That almost conclusively proves that V is a mother.
"Every Parent's Worst Nightmare"? That title?

Even when it said "mother," I'm pretty sure it meant the dragon.

[Rico De'vega]

Not my personal opinion, but it's still an intereting though:

In the event that V's male, it could be that he didn't know of his children until this moment, which may very well double the horror. I know it would for me. as evil as Black Dragons are, one would still have to respect one seeking vengeance, they're not about to lie about something just to gain some unknown upper hand when they're avenging their children.

That said, it could just be an EXCEPTIONAL illusion by the imp in order to force V in to a situation..




My own opinion though is one shared by most, the threat is real and obvious to V, Quite likely it will bring about a meeting of some sort between V and the rest of the Order, which may irritate V for the wasted comic pages used up in this reuniting.
That is if Haley doesn't get the message out to Durkon, which could very easily distract at least part of the fleet and leave V alone.


Plenty of possibilities, I'm happy to suspect and wait for Giant to bring us the answers ^_^

[theguyintherobe]

just a shot in the dark, and sorry if anybody said this already, what if the dragon wants to kill V's familiar, that bird. Maybe she actually likes the bird despite earlier comics?

[Finwe]

Not that difficult, at least assuming V's mate is equally androgynous. As long as they don't actually show the kids being born, we should be able to get some back story without being any wiser about V's gender.

Of course, if the kids actually shows up it would be logical for them to shout out "Mommy!/Daddy!" to V but I'm sure the Giant can figure out some way around that.

"Progenitor!!!"'

[TheSummoner]

"Progenitor!!!"'

As hilarious as that would be, it could be much simpler with "Mom! Dad" when both are in the area, possibly leading to Elan questioning them on which is which...

[King of Nowhere]

I don't know 3.5 or races of the wild, but in 3.0 core book it is stated that humans reach maturity at 15, while elves at 100.
So, if we just make the proportion, we have that V is about 20 for human standards. However, in the 30 years after he reched maturity, he could have done many things.

[random_guy]

As hilarious as that would be, it could be much simpler with "Mom! Dad" when both are in the area, possibly leading to Elan questioning them on which is which...

Another possibility is they don't know how to speak yet because they're still infants by elf standards. (How long has V been away from home?)

I agree with those that think the dragon if referring to currently existing children. And V's reaction indicates that they are not capable of defending themselves from a dragon.

[Ryusacerdos]

The Dragon is going to Neutar/Spay the elf.

A fate worse than death!

[NikkTheTrick]

Considering their long like span I have thought elves were not the most fertile of beings. Most having about 1-2 children their entire lives.
Has to be at least 3 to keep population stagnant. More since elven children have more time to die before adulthood.

Besides, haven't you played Dwarf Fortress - elves literally outbreed every race there :smallbiggrin:

[Finwe]

The Dragon is going to Neutar/Spay the elf.

A fate worse than death!

You forget that Durkon is capable of casting regenerate, which would reverse it completely.

[VariaVespasa]

Alternatively, it could mean V's "unborn" children. Meaning she's about to tie V's tubes, or give him a vasectomy. Without anesthetic.

...I need an adult...

I tend to favor something along these lines, otherwise what would be the point in spending all the time, effort and risk to hunt down V first and warn him/her, thus giving V the possibility of warning the children before the dragon can strike? If it was after literal children it would seem more effective to kill them without warning V and just leave a note or something.

The other option is to imprison V so V can have the pleasure of panicked anticipation while the dragon then goes and hunts the children, but that seems somehow uneccesarily risky. But maybe its succumbing to Bond Villain Syndrome. And since this is a bit out of the blue it must have a point, and it may be that it is to provide the necessary pressure for V to agree to a deal with the imp. Four words, and all that. So it may indeed be BVS.

[bluewind95]

Wouldn't it be more cruel if the dragon took V with her (with the anti-magic field) to hunt the children down? I don't think it's unnecessarily complicated to warn V. After all... V can't possibly get there in time to stop her, can he/she? That way, the dragon is crushing V for a longer time as the elf gets to see how useless he/she is being, unable to stop the death of his/her kids, rather than coming back years later. Less of a shock then. I don't think the dragon is going for equal retribution. She's going for greater retribution.

[Runa]

This annoys me. It strikes me as serving little purpose except to arbitrarily declare ~21 the age of maturity for everyone because, after all, humans are the baseline.

More importantly for OotS :smalltongue:, Vaarsuvius made a reference to decades in diapers in OtOoPCs, so I'm pretty sure elves don't rush to adulthood in the OotS universe, and I'm not saying that because I wish ill to whichever D&D writer came up with the idea of them doing so in any universe.

Well, not just because of that.

You know, I'm constructing my own SF/fantasy setting for a story of mine that happens to feature long-lived humanoids (not elves, but for the sake of argument, let's assume they're similar enough, biologically). And I examined this very point and I came to the following conclusion, based on logic, reason, and a little bit of my scant knowledge of biology:

While it seems silly to put the arbitrary age-slowing point as high as 21, it's not irrational at ALL to have them age and grow at a human rate up to a certain point, simply because, if they are biologically and physiologically close enough to "human" (as elves VERY clearly are, since we get half-elves :P)... let's face it, their infant form is pathetically weak and helpless, as well as unable to reproduce for an insane amount of time.

This simply does not seem evolutionarily adaptive enough to be a viable reproductive/life cycle strategy. Moreover, it's been pretty decently established that a lot of the effects of "aging" are really just cells breaking down - which already break down at different rates in different people (this is why those quizzes that tell you how long you can expect your natural lifespan to be ask about how old your grandparents are or were). On top of that, IIRC, the last few decades of research in fertility have suggested that the tendency for older women to hit menopause - something that doesn't really happen in non-primates as I recall - is genetic, and maybe not even truly permanent or irreversible. In short, the only things needed to have a human-like species that lives considerably longer, ages slower, and can keep reproducing during most of that time? Probably all relatively minor genetic traits, which do NOT require the child to take 80 years or more to hit puberty. In fact, quite arguably, the human race is lucky to have survived as long as it has with us being helpless for so long in youth and unable to reproduce for so long as we are. How is it logical to say that another species would necessarily be doing much better by following a ridiculously slower process? Not saying that they COULDN'T survive... just that if you stretch that far enough, it becomes a lot less plausible.

Granted, I would put the slowing-of-aging point a lot lower than 21, but putting it past puberty - or at least, past the first few years of life* - makes perfect sense. Particularly when you realize that children do not just "age" - they specifically "grow and develop". :) Those are actually two quite different concepts, remember.


I tend to favor something along these lines, otherwise what would be the point in spending all the time, effort and risk to hunt down V first and warn him/her, thus giving V the possibility of warning the children before the dragon can strike? If it was after literal children it would seem more effective to kill them without warning V and just leave a note or something.

The point, I believe, may well simply be to psychologically torture V. Think about it: this dragon has had both her mate AND her only child killed by adventurers, one of whom happens to be V (in fact, the only one she can hurt now, is probably V). She is full of rage, pain... she may very well not CARE that she stands a chance of being killed at this point. She just wants to make him** suffer. And what better way than to horrify him with the poetic justice of his own deed leading to his own children's imminent (or at least potential, or future, or whatever) demise?



I agree with those that think the dragon if referring to currently existing children. And V's reaction indicates that they are not capable of defending themselves from a dragon.

Given the apparent life cycle of elves in OotSverse, I would not be surprised if this was the case. Especially given the normally chatty elf's own lack of verbiage in reaction. Sort of a slow, blood-chilling horror as he realizes how defenseless they are... too shocked, too horrified to even Big No us. :P


"Progenitor!!!"'

*sporfle!* Actually, that is not all that unlikely, considering how ridiculously verbose at least one of their parents is...


*(If you were curious: I put my humanoids' such point at "somewhere between 5 and 8", with development and aging only gradually slowing after that, with true puberty hitting somewhere between 80 and 100 years... give or take a decade. Still somewhat lengthy compared to humans', but the early development still allows them to become mobile fairly quickly)

**Aside from the fact I've always figured V was supposed to be male, it seems more natural to me to just pick a pronoun, instead of using goofy, overly-complex, silly-out-loud constructions like "s/he", "she/he", "hir", etc.

[AceOfFools]

I tend to favor something along these lines, otherwise what would be the point in spending all the time, effort and risk to hunt down V first and warn him/her, thus giving V the possibility of warning the children before the dragon can strike? If it was after literal children it would seem more effective to kill them without warning V and just leave a note or something.

The other option is to imprison V so V can have the pleasure of panicked anticipation while the dragon then goes and hunts the children, but that seems somehow uneccesarily risky. But maybe its succumbing to Bond Villain Syndrome. And since this is a bit out of the blue it must have a point, and it may be that it is to provide the necessary pressure for V to agree to a deal with the imp. Four words, and all that. So it may indeed be BVS.

So V has no high level spells left. A wizard needs their spell book to get new spells.

Provided the dragon assumes that V's mate (and surrounding community) is not a threat, she can just drag V along without any risk, and eat the children in front of their parents.

Or, to reduce risk further, she could eat or otherswise destroy V's spellbooks and leave the elf as helpless as she was to defend her child while she was away.

In related spoiler:Assuming that the order defeats this new dragon, she has an established brother [in law]. Her death might just perpetuate an escalating sub-plot of scaly vengeance, nunkle?

[Jokasti]

Yes, at first V didn't seem to be a parently type, but I'm warming to the idea. I think that V has several pre-existing children that have either left to live by themselves or are still with the father/mother. The Mother Dragon probably asked where she could locate the children, and maybe how best to kill them as well, seeing how she is a priority client. On another note, V's 4 words. Perhaps "NO, not my children!"- and then s/he learns the only way to get complete arcane power is to kill/sacrifice them.

[amuletts]

LOL. It amuses me that so many people have never thought about whether V. had children before. S/he's been around a while, it's not all that suprising. I *do* think the dragon means it literally. I don't know how the giant will keep V's gender hidden through it all but I bet he will somehow.
Oo I love it when it gets personal!

As for the 'yet another sub-plot' reaction, I'm actually quite happy that V gets one. A friend pointed out to me that OOTS is starting to read a lot better in book format than on the web. I do not doubt that the Giant has some structure to this, the worsening of the PCs situation finally leading to a tremendous climax.

[Prak]

Did anyone else notice the force cage (panel one, page 2)? It ain't V's forcecage, that got destroyed, and the Giant doesn't seem too interested in changing that. I wouldn't be particularly surprised if the dragon already has V's kids and they're in that cage.

[Optimystik]

If the Dragon knows that V can't teleport then she might consider it more humiliating just to fly off to elfland or wherever and leave V on the island feeling helpless. This also presents Qarr with an amazing opportunity to get into V's good graces, since he CAN teleport. All V has to do is trust the imp enough to dispel his anchor, but V has nothing to lose at this point.

[Mando Knight]

Did anyone else notice the force cage (panel one, page 2)? It ain't V's forcecage, that got destroyed, and the Giant doesn't seem too interested in changing that. I wouldn't be particularly surprised if the dragon already has V's kids and they're in that cage.

It is V's Forcecage. It wasn't destroyed by the AMF, it was temporarily suppressed.

[Dagny]

I think the V's helplessness in this situation is key. Even setting aside the absolute utter horror of losing a child, V already has sort of a complex about not being in control.
Ever since the battle in Azure city, when s(he) had to stand by helplessly while the soldiers were slaughtered, s(he) has been persistently going to great lengths to stay in control of every situation. His/her refusal to help the captured paladin (and risk failing), his/her decision to kill Kubota instead of leaving his fate up to a judge, and the retreat to the desert island (free, s(he) hoped, from outside interference) all seem to indicate a desperate fixation with never being helpless again. (S(he) meets the diagnostic criteria for PTSD, so perhaps this is "persistent avoidance of stimuli associated with the trauma?" Of course, I'm not a trained psychologist, so that theory could be completely ridiculous for all I know.)
If the dragon has figured this out, that could be part of her plan to inflict the maximum psychological trauma on V.

[Prak]

It is V's Forcecage. It wasn't destroyed by the AMF, it was temporarily suppressed.

looked destroyed to me, but I may have been unclear. I also think they're abit far from their original placement for that, but, actually makes more sense.

[Needle]

On last panel, I think the dragon smashed V's "children". There's a nail less, probably because that nail is destroying V's sex organ, whichever V has.

In other words, V can't have children from now on, thus, hir children were killed.

[MXR]

Well it can also be that the in the beggining of the next strip we will see V suprised (after being shocked) and saying "Wait.. but I don't have any children".

But if s/he has - the father might be V's master, or however we will call him (if V is female and the other is.. you know - male)

However, it is sad that the dragon will eventually die :(
(I doubt it will become anyones pet)

[Prak]

On last panel, I think the dragon smashed V's "children". There's a nail less, probably because that nail is destroying V's sex organ, whichever V has.

In other words, V can't have children from now on, thus, hir children were killed.

Nope, just as many nails as there were before.

[Quorothorn]

On last panel, I think the dragon smashed V's "children". There's a nail less, probably because that nail is destroying V's sex organ, whichever V has.

In other words, V can't have children from now on, thus, hir children were killed.

The dragon would have used the past tense, if that was the case.

[DBear]

I think it pretty clear that if the dragon is being literal (and I see no reason to believe otherwise), that V's children would be little more than infants physically and mentally, certainly not able to withstand angry mama dragon. That will lead to questions of who is raising the kids, whether just V's mate or an elf village, or whom.

And curses, jossed again... I had thought V was a gay male

[Hectonkhyres]

If I was the dragon, I would do both. I would castrate V (assuming V is male), remove each of h** limbs, heal h** up enough that she won't die, level drain him to a mere novice, and then go off to kill V's children and anyone else (s)he has ever cared about. Only then would I leave the twisted stump that was once a great mage(ss) in a circle of ruins and only half identifiable corpses to wallow in despair until dehydration provides a final act of mercy.

[Leper Master]

Well, If V's partner is like this (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0587.html) i think we have little to worry about. . .

[Rotipher]

About the need to hide V's gender in an encounter with vir family:

Whaddaya wanna bet that young elf children always address their parents by the traditional Elvish-language terms of "Pama" and "Mapa"? :smallwink:

[VariaVespasa]

About the need to hide V's gender in an encounter with vir family:

Whaddaya wanna bet that young elf children always address their parents by the traditional Elvish-language terms of "Pama" and "Mapa"? :smallwink:

Of course they dont. This is Varsuvius we're talking about- They address their parents using their proper names. :P

[Ellen]

To quote Belkar,

"So . . . many . . . questions"

I'm guessing real kids and, given the prolonged Elven childhood, I'm guessing they will show up, see V and say, "Ma-ma!"

And, before we can assume this means anything, they will then call Elan, "Ma-ma!" And the ship. And the dragon. And anything else they see.

However, I can't help but expect V to meet someone, now, and say, "Obi-wan never told you what happened to at least one of your parents of an unspecified gender, did he?"

Of course, part of me is also trying to figure out if V could possibly have adopted an orphaned goblin, just to keep things insanely complicated.

[hanzo66]

Why do I feel that "Children" is either going to be something symbolically precious (important magical creations or whatever) or that the kids are actually Adopted by V and Mate long ago as orphans or something?

[Bluecloak]

Right, this theory does not seem to have many supporters, only seen one or two mentioning it, but I'm going to put my money on it: Pompey.

He is 42 years if I recall correctly, which seems to be the right age bracket for a child of a "young and reckless" Vaarsuvius of around 90. "Children" do not necessarily mean children with V:s spouse. Also, V and Pompey never met or saw each other in the battle of Cliffport, so they might not have realised that they were both there. Sure, Pompey must have been told about V from the Linear Guild, but if he hates elves - maybe from being abandoned by his elven parent? - he would not have any trouble fighting his father. And he might even have changed his name to Pompey, so that V would not realise that it was his/her son, even if Roy told him after the Cliffport battle that Nale had help from "a half-elf named Pompey".

I think it fits, and that it wasn't a coincidence that Pompey was an "evil opposite" to V, even to the point of barring magic schools that his father knew or specialised in.

In short, until proven wrong, I'm putting myself in the Pompey camp, even if it might get lonely there:smallsmile:

[MurderOfCrows]

The adopted theory was what jumpedo ut at me first (and I missed posting first cause I had to register). Or that V possibly considers Haley <possessive> adopted daughter, whether she thinks that way or not.

Some sort of magical created critter or golem being a possible too.

[King of Nowhere]

To quote Belkar,

Of course, part of me is also trying to figure out if V could possibly have adopted an orphaned goblin, just to keep things insanely complicated.

You just gave me an idea that everyone who has read SoD will immediatley figure out...

[GoC]

Funnily enough, that's my hope.

That would be both awesome and entirely possible. After all, in real life a gay man can adopt and in the future there will likely be technological methods he could use.

In a magic setting like this one it just takes a polymorph for a gay couple to have kids (better keep preparing it each day for the pregnancy though). Although they aren't going to enjoy it the way a straight couple would. xP

Oh how I hope V is a gay man. :3

With polymorph there is no reason to not become transexual...
Scientifically speaking gay sex is less stimulating than hetero sex.

[Lissou]

Not that difficult, at least assuming V's mate is equally androgynous. As long as they don't actually show the kids being born, we should be able to get some back story without being any wiser about V's gender.

Of course, if the kids actually shows up it would be logical for them to shout out "Mommy!/Daddy!" to V but I'm sure the Giant can figure out some way around that.

I don't think it would be that hard. There are lots of people who don't call their parents that, from real examples (My mom called her parents nicknames based on their names, and never called them anything else. They also called her a nickname, and never "daughter") to fictional once (Complains from Goblins doesn't call Thaco "Dad" or "Father" for instance).

Having V's kid call V by his/her first name, a nickname or even a gender neutral version of "mom" or "dad" ("Parent" or something would be in line with V's own verbosity, if the kids are anything like that)

[Jural]

At the moment, the most likely interpretation is that V has children and the dragon wants to kill them (and obviously the history of V can allow for this... the Giant controls all.)

But I think it's also possible that the look of shock in the last panel is V being surprised that he has children. That seems very unlikely however, as that would immediately peg V as male.

I do immediately conceive of V being male in this strip, as I imagine that his wife is the one actually raising the children. I don't know how much role reversal occurs in elven society!

[TheSummoner]

At the moment, the most likely interpretation is that V has children and the dragon wants to kill them (and obviously the history of V can allow for this... the Giant controls all.)

But I think it's also possible that the look of shock in the last panel is V being surprised that he has children. That seems very unlikely however, as that would immediately peg V as male.

I do immediately conceive of V being male in this strip, as I imagine that his wife is the one actually raising the children. I don't know how much role reversal occurs in elven society!

Even though I also believe V is male, the fact that V's mate is the one raising the kids doesn't prove anything. I'm sure if one parent is an adventurer and the other isn't, the non-adventurer is going to do most of the child raising... I really don't think most parents would let their spouse have "take your kids to work day" in such a scenerio...

[The_Void]

Of course, part of me is also trying to figure out if V could possibly have adopted an orphaned goblin, just to keep things insanely complicated.

V's son is Redcloak!



...


What? Stranger things have happened. Like that horse becoming Pope.

[Snake-Aes]

Why does it HAVE to be someone already in the plot?
Why does it have to be someone who just can't be explained(read:arsed) into it?

V has a kid or two. They live with V's mate. There's a very good chance they're elves just like hir.


Sometimes it's that simple. The dragon is a freaking high level wizard, which happens to be a vip client for an oracle. Getting his name was easy. Scrying him was ridiculous. Finding out he has kids might be just as simple.

[whitelaughter]

Given both V's horror and the foreshadowing of 'decades in daipers' I suspect that V's kids are (at best) toddlers - and completely defenceless against a dragon. V's spouse may be the one looking fter the kids, but it's also possible that the Giant will have fun with the sort of childcare arrangements that parents will resort to after a few decades of a screaming baby.

That said, V's kids may not be, well, normal - with spells like Clone, Simulacrum and Shapechange, V could easily brew a kid in a vat.

Why would anyone in a D&D world have an ordinary child? A Template is the ideal gift for yur offspring.

[whatchamacallit]

When we eventually meet V's children do you think the Giant will use an elvish word for the title s/he offspring refer to him/her by?

Like instead of calling them Mother or Father a made up word like 'Sin'dui' which could loosely translate into 'Parent.'

What a great series :smallsmile:

[Kish]

With polymorph there is no reason to not become transexual...
Scientifically speaking gay sex is less stimulating than hetero sex.
:smallsigh: Oh. Dear. God.

"This has been proven by Science, comrades!"

[Snake-Aes]

With polymorph there is no reason to not become transexual...
Scientifically speaking gay sex is less stimulating than hetero sex.

It's much more complex than that, as the preference isn't strongly tied with the behaviour(i.e: what gender the person feels to possess), but yeah, the first bit is right as long as the polymorph lasts long enough.

[dps]

Provided the dragon assumes that V's mate (and surrounding community) is not a threat, she can just drag V along without any risk, and eat the children in front of their parents.


That's exactly what I expect the dragon to do.

[Lunaya]

Alternatively, it could mean V's "unborn" children. Meaning she's about to tie V's tubes, or give him a vasectomy. Without anesthetic.

...I need an adult...

That's what I was thinking initially, especially given the position of the dragon's foot in the last panel. But the look on V's face tells me that s/he already has children.


Maybe the dragon plans on giving V an abortion... we still don't know the elf's gender after all.

True, but it's highly unlikely that V's pregnant, even if s/he is female. Unless elves have an extremely long gestation period, V's been away from hir mate for far too long.

[Dixieboy]

That's what I was thinking initially, especially given the position of the dragon's foot in the last panel. But the look on V's face tells me that s/he already has children.



True, but it's highly unlikely that V's pregnant, even if s/he is female. Unless elves have an extremely long gestation period, V's been away from hir mate for far too long.
Curiously enough their gestation period IS ridiculously long! :smalltongue:

[SilentNight]

SPOILER! (Sorry, I don't know how to make a spoiler box on this forum.)


To me, it's very obvious that the dragon is going to fly V to the Elven Homelands and murder his/her literal children in front of him/her. Then my earlier theory of "The people in the boat go to the Elven Homelands because in War and XP's it specifically states that the Elven Homelands are both, allies of Azure City and across the sea from it." kicks in and we get a dramatic entrance followed by a major dragon battle!

I like this. Also, V is 103 years old, as s/he puts on his/her job application in Origins

[Studoku]

Right, this theory does not seem to have many supporters, only seen one or two mentioning it, but I'm going to put my money on it: Pompey.

He is 42 years if I recall correctly, which seems to be the right age bracket for a child of a "young and reckless" Vaarsuvius of around 90. "Children" do not necessarily mean children with V:s spouse. Also, V and Pompey never met or saw each other in the battle of Cliffport, so they might not have realised that they were both there. Sure, Pompey must have been told about V from the Linear Guild, but if he hates elves - maybe from being abandoned by his elven parent? - he would not have any trouble fighting his father. And he might even have changed his name to Pompey, so that V would not realise that it was his/her son, even if Roy told him after the Cliffport battle that Nale had help from "a half-elf named Pompey".

I think it fits, and that it wasn't a coincidence that Pompey was an "evil opposite" to V, even to the point of barring magic schools that his father knew or specialised in.

In short, until proven wrong, I'm putting myself in the Pompey camp, even if it might get lonely there:smallsmile:
I think I suggested this a while ago. By while, I mean 'back when Roy was still alive'.

If it turns out to be true, I'll try and find the post- assuming it hasn't been purged.

[Nimrod's Son]

V is a girl!!! Now I know why I thought she was so attractive, because she was a she. :smallbiggrin: (That last statement will really bite me if V is a guy).
Dude, I think it's safe to say that being attracted to the same sex as yourself is nowhere near as messed up as being attracted to a stick-figure cartoon of either gender.

Scientifically speaking gay sex is less stimulating than hetero sex.
Ha ha! Priceless.

"I'm a man who discovered the wheel and built the Eiffel Tower out of metal and brawn! That's what kind of man I am. You're just a woman with a small brain. With a brain a third the size of us. It's science."

[tcrudisi]

I think it pretty clear that if the dragon is being literal (and I see no reason to believe otherwise), that V's children would be little more than infants physically and mentally, certainly not able to withstand angry mama dragon. That will lead to questions of who is raising the kids, whether just V's mate or an elf village, or whom.

And curses, jossed again... I had thought V was a gay male

You aren't the only one with that theory. My fiance read #628 today and came walking into the room. She told me, "Varsurius has children? I thought he was gay!" It caused me to start thinking, and I had to agree with her assessment. V could have been gay, and it would have made a lot of sense.

[The_Void]

You aren't the only one with that theory. My fiance read #628 today and came walking into the room. She told me, "Varsurius has children? I thought he was gay!" It caused me to start thinking, and I had to agree with her assessment. V could have been gay, and it would have made a lot of sense.

He could still be gay, his children could be adopted. Or perhaps there is some spell that can make any two people the biological parents of a baby.

[Nimrod's Son]

Y'know, plenty of gay people have children of their own without having to adopt. Whether through an accident while still "discovering" their true sexuality, or through living a lie in a straight relationship to avoid the scorn of a disapproving society... I could go on and on. Just because you're gay doesn't mean you've never had straight sex, and it's ridiculous to claim otherwise.

But it's a moot point anyway, because clearly the dragon is Vaarsuvius's child, and it's about to commit suicide. :smallwink:

[The_Void]

Y'know, plenty of gay people have children of their own without having to adopt. Whether through an accident while still "discovering" their true sexuality, or through living a lie in a straight relationship to avoid the scorn of a disapproving society... I could go on and on. Just because you're gay doesn't mean you've never had straight sex, and it's ridiculous to claim otherwise.

But it's a moot point anyway, because clearly the dragon is Vaarsuvius's child, and it's about to commit suicide. :smallwink:

I'm suddenly reminded of Monty Python's 'Life of Brian'.

"Suicide squad -ATTACK"

*all members stab themselves in the stomach and fall down dead."

"....That showed 'em."

:smallbiggrin: