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View Full Version : Would this feat overpower paladins?



Frosty
2009-02-01, 10:33 PM
Ok, maybe that's a dumb question, given the suckitude that is the 3.5 Paladin, but I need some feedback on whether this feat is too much and too good even for the paladin. I know nearly every paladin would want to take this feat, and that's usually a sign of overpowered-ness. but given how much help the paladin needs, it's probably ok.

Devoted Crusader [GENERAL]
You blend your training and devotion to two similar ideals and causes, letting them complement each other.
Prerequisite: Paladin level 4, Crusader level 1
Benefit: Your Paladin and Crusader levels stack for the purposes of Lay on Hands. Your Lay on Hands daily limit is now equal to twice your effective class level x your Charisma bonus.
Your Paladin and Crusader levels also stack for the purposes of determining how many Smite evil attempts you get and how effective they are. In return, you give up the Smite ability given by the Crusader class. For example, a Paladin 5/Crusader 6 would have 3 Smite evil attempts her day, each adding her Charisma bonus to the attack roll and 11 damage to the attack.
Lastly, by spending 20 points of your Lay on Hands, you may (in place of healing damage) remove one condition affecting the creature you are touching, or remove one negative level. The list of conditions is the same as those that the Dragon Shaman can remove with his Touch of Vitality.
Special: You may multiclass freely between Paladin and Crusader, although you must still remain Lawful Good to advance in Paladin, or Chaotic Good in the case of a Paladin of Freedom.

Flickerdart
2009-02-01, 10:41 PM
Seems fine to me. Not like you can cheese out Smite Evil and Lay on Hands, anyways.

Another_Poet
2009-02-01, 11:15 PM
Prerequisite: Paladin level 5, Furious counterstrike
Benefit: Your Paladin and Crusader levels stack for the purposes of Lay on Hands. Your Lay on Hands daily limit is now equal to twice your effective class level x your Charisma bonus.

This seems like a great feat, but the prereq doesn't make sense. Furious counterstrike has nothing to do with healing, does it? I would make the prereq: Paladin level 5, Crusader level 1.


Your Paladin and Crusader levels also stack for the purposes of determining how many Smite evil attempts you get and how effective they are. In return, you give up the Smite ability given by the Crusader class. For example, a Paladin 5/Crusader 6 would have 3 Smite evil attempts her day, each adding her Charisma bonus to the attack roll and 11 damage to the attack.

This seems like maybe it should be a different feat than the lay on hands one. Usually a feat just bumps one ability, not two. But like you said Paladin needs some help, so maybe OK.


Lastly, by spending 20 points of your Lay on Hands, you may remove one condition affecting the creature you are touching, or remove one negative level. The list of conditions is the same as those that the Dragon Shaman can remove with his Touch of Vitality.

Ummmmm no. Removing a negative level with the same amount of healing as a well-rolled Cure Moderate? I don't think that should be a feat at all, and if it is, it should be its own feat with the above feat(s) as prerequisites.

Frosty
2009-02-01, 11:19 PM
Perhaps I was unclear. You would remove a negative level *instead* of healing the 20 points of damage. You could, however, spend 35 points, for example, to heal 15 damage AND remove a negative level.

Sstoopidtallkid
2009-02-02, 12:29 AM
It's not OP, but it is too broad. Paladin and Crusader stacking for Lay on Hads is a good idea for a feat, it's similar to a lot out there like Devoted Performer and Song of the White Raven. It even makes sense that the Smites stacking would be included in the feat, since they are the same mechanic. I would also toss in the "multi-classing freely" clause, so that you could go back and forth, since it makes sense thematically even without the feat. However, I think the Lay on Hands powerup doesn't fit with the rest of the feat. It's not reasonably something that would come from multiclassing Crusader/Paladin, it's just a boost(though a needed one). I'd make it a seperate feat, or a part of the Paladin from the beginning.

Frosty
2009-02-02, 12:42 AM
However, I think the Lay on Hands powerup doesn't fit with the rest of the feat. It's not reasonably something that would come from multiclassing Crusader/Paladin, it's just a boost(though a needed one). I'd make it a seperate feat, or a part of the Paladin from the beginning.

Agreed. The reason why I put it in there was because not everybody uses my own houserule that stadnard LoH is 2xClass levelxCHA bonus. and yes, I will edit in the multiclass freely clause.

Sstoopidtallkid
2009-02-02, 12:45 AM
Agreed. The reason why I put it in there was because not everybody uses my own houserule that stadnard LoH is 2xClass levelxCHA bonus. and yes, I will edit in the multiclass freely clause.I meant both the 2x and the "heal one condition", which is both very powerful and doesn't fit the rest of the feat. If you just make it the Crusader and Paladin stack and they can multiclass, that's fine for one feat.

Myou
2009-02-02, 02:31 AM
Ideally split the smiting and LoH into two separate feats, but if you really want them together then at least take out negative level removal.

Kaiyanwang
2009-02-02, 06:41 AM
Split LoH and Smite. The idea is fine, but currently you obtain too much with the same feat.

BobVosh
2009-02-02, 06:46 AM
The feat is great, but doesn't really do anything great. Honestly I would still rather not play a paladin with this feat.