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Reinboom
2009-02-04, 03:23 AM
I'm looking for a system to fit a world and mechanical preferences currently, and am having difficulty finding something satisfactory.
The setting is a planet-cityscape, where nearly every end of the planet has civilization and wars are not fought mostly out of space limitation rather than dispute, government acts in sections and is mostly built out of martial law first rather than ideas or goals (and thus, corruption is normal).

A mostly human campaign with slight steam punk inspired technology within a 1920s-esque world imposed upon a situation where crime is birthed of necessity and even heroes sit in high moral ambiguity, alla city-crime style of film noir.

The desired playstyle would be more mission like with an overlaying campaign being a background image. Being able to handle from Call of Cthulhu esque knowledge and investigation first to Shadowrun's "jackson's mission, situation, kick ass, get paid".

Finally, I do want 'magic' available. However, low key and simple. A professional thief might dip in to a bit of magic just to reliably be able to produce 'bobby-pins' when he needs them. If the system can't support this, I trust my own homebrew to produce such.

Now, finding a system to handle that is relatively simple. The difficulty of it lies in the mechanical desire.

I like systems with clear mechanical character advancement. It doesn't need to be as clear as d20 or other level based systems, and an experience to points advancement is fine.
Next, I like a system that lets characters be a mechanical LEGO set in available pieces. A lot of character construction based splat books is really a good sign in my opinion. Traits, feats, edges, perks, or whatever the system desires to call them are things that /do/ interest me.
I like a system that shows the players as mortal but not paper.

For how chance is handled in the system, I can't stand large range dice or a lot of dice (especially, a significant amount of rerolling is a turn off). Shadowrun's (at least, 3e and 4e both) system I loathe. I also don't like enormous option-all systems, such as GURPS (though, this can be diverted by being a stand alone system using a option-all. Such as Call of Cthulhu is.)

Systems I have considered for a period longer than 30 minutes:
Mutants and Masterminds 2e (still investigating)
Call of Cthulhu (Not enough character options, and characters are little too paper-like)
World of Darkness (considering)
Savage Worlds (mathematically unsound in both my calculations and experience playing deadlands).


Any advice?

bosssmiley
2009-02-04, 04:44 AM
Spirir of the Century or Savage Worlds should work for you mechanically.
Fading Suns had a lot of the setting elements you mention (schizo-tech, noir, spacewars, odd types of magic), but the game's native roll-under system is b0rked and the d20 conversion materials are scarce at best.

Grail
2009-02-04, 04:51 AM
I cannot reccomend True20 (http://www.true20.com) strong enough.

Jimp
2009-02-04, 06:58 AM
I'll second True20. Another option is Unisystem, which is points based like GURPS but simpler on a whole. You can whip up a character in a few minutes/

Tsotha-lanti
2009-02-04, 07:17 AM
Fading Suns had a lot of the setting elements you mention (schizo-tech, noir, spacewars, odd types of magic), but the game's native roll-under system is b0rked and the d20 conversion materials are scarce at best.

The d20 conversion is also absolutely vomit-inducingly horrible.

How is the roll-under system borked, though? I seem to recall something odd about the first edition rules, but the second edition rules seem just excellent, to me.

OP: I would usually never recommend Rolemaster (despite having enjoyed good games of it; those were fun despite the system, not because of it), but I think it might almost kinda suit your requirements, if you don't mind levels and way too many tables. (Just, er, keep combat to a minimum and you won't have to spend 4 hours trying to resolve a two-person fistfight because nobody ever gets a useful critical result despite constantly inflicting the highest level of critical...) It's a fantasy game by default, but sourcebooks exist for other genres. Just make sure it's 2nd edition ('99 print or newer), and definitely get Character Law (also the '99 or newer).

Khatoblepas
2009-02-04, 07:25 AM
You seem to like CoC, but the caveat is that it must have more options?

Have you tried flavoring vanilla BRP? Chaosium recently released a book for it, and it's got a heck of a lot of different things in it. I really like it, and all the characters I made in it (not for CoC, but a Planescape campaign) have been really awesome.

Besides which, you can make anything a skill, if you think up a reason you can have it.

And once more, there are merit/flaw systems for BRP (and mutations, and superpowers, and..) which really makes characters unique.

sebsmith
2009-02-04, 09:21 AM
One of the versions of Traveller might work. What little I've played of classic was fun, but the campaign my group had with the d20 conversion shows it might just be perfect for you.

fusilier
2009-02-04, 06:15 PM
I used to play the old West End Games Star Wars. I haven't played recently, but maybe their revamped D6 system will work? Seems to fit most of your requirements. I remember there being a fair amount of character advancement, though not as much as in D&D. Characters were certainly mortal, though not easily killed.

Fax Celestis
2009-02-04, 06:58 PM
I'll use my same recommendation I always do: Everway. Light system, simple and open mechanics, straightforward character creation, and capable of representing nearly anything.

Reinboom
2009-02-04, 08:38 PM
Spirir of the Century or Savage Worlds should work for you mechanically.
Fading Suns had a lot of the setting elements you mention (schizo-tech, noir, spacewars, odd types of magic), but the game's native roll-under system is b0rked and the d20 conversion materials are scarce at best.

I have a small issue (as said in the original post) with savage worlds mechanically. I am investigating it more, however. I haven't seen spirit of the century, I'll give it a look.


I cannot reccomend True20 (http://www.true20.com) strong enough.

I do not understand why I would choose this over a modified d20.


I would usually never recommend Rolemaster (despite having enjoyed good games of it; those were fun despite the system, not because of it), but I think it might almost kinda suit your requirements, if you don't mind levels and way too many tables. (Just, er, keep combat to a minimum and you won't have to spend 4 hours trying to resolve a two-person fistfight because nobody ever gets a useful critical result despite constantly inflicting the highest level of critical...) It's a fantasy game by default, but sourcebooks exist for other genres. Just make sure it's 2nd edition ('99 print or newer), and definitely get Character Law (also the '99 or newer).
Combat is inevitable with the setting desired. This is a reason I didn't want paper players.


You seem to like CoC, but the caveat is that it must have more options?

Have you tried flavoring vanilla BRP? Chaosium recently released a book for it, and it's got a heck of a lot of different things in it. I really like it, and all the characters I made in it (not for CoC, but a Planescape campaign) have been really awesome.

Besides which, you can make anything a skill, if you think up a reason you can have it.

And once more, there are merit/flaw systems for BRP (and mutations, and superpowers, and..) which really makes characters unique.
I'm hoping to stay away from that system for anything more than CoC. The core system does not please me, however, I might just be picky.


I'll use my same recommendation I always do: Everway. Light system, simple and open mechanics, straightforward character creation, and capable of representing nearly anything.

This campaign will be done over maptools. I do not wish to try to implement the deck, and given the players, such a system will probably be not received very well.

I think I need more input from my players... but... they don't like coughing any up.


So, I'm currently examining a lot of systems now supplied by you all.

ShneekeyTheLost
2009-02-04, 08:43 PM
RIFTS: Palladium?

It's got steampunk, a splash of magic, and can be set in the 1920's...

Reinboom
2009-02-04, 08:46 PM
RIFTS: Palladium?

It's got steampunk, a splash of magic, and can be set in the 1920's...

That is a system I loathe to touch (again). =P
Too massive for sensible play character sheets, distinction among weaponry causing massive imbalances, with enough bad material that trying to sift through the system makes my head ache from slapping it too many times.

-edit-
The ability to handle the setting isn't as required as a fluid system.

ShneekeyTheLost
2009-02-04, 08:53 PM
That is a system I loathe to touch (again). =P
Too massive for sensible play character sheets, distinction among weaponry causing massive imbalances, with enough bad material that trying to sift through the system makes my head ache from slapping it too many times.

-edit-
The ability to handle the setting isn't as required as a fluid system.

BESM? I hear the latest edition is quite well balanced...

Thane of Fife
2009-02-04, 09:04 PM
My experience with Alternity is minimal, but from what I know of it, it could fit your requests.

You can find the Spirit of the Century SRD here (http://bzr.mausdompteur.de/fate3/fate3.html), among other places.

Reinboom
2009-02-04, 09:48 PM
My experience with Alternity is minimal, but from what I know of it, it could fit your requests.

You can find the Spirit of the Century SRD here (http://bzr.mausdompteur.de/fate3/fate3.html), among other places.

So far, I'm enjoying the read.
Is there online character sheets for this somewhere?

Starshade
2009-02-05, 12:34 PM
My impression is, you do look for some slightly retro futuristic game with magic or mystical sides?
Traveller RPG games is sort of ok, if you'd like Spaceships. The version i got of traveller is GURPS Traveller Interstellar Wars, and it got scifi, and uses a Psionic system (in the GURPS version its the gurps basic set powers).

I think its a ok version, if you like those mentioned spaceships. If you dont, i am not shure if Traveller is usefull.

I do like Call of Cthulhu's system, and when i think about it, it exist rules in the D20 CoC for using the system's d20 version as a D&D addon. Good idea i'd say to darken up the standard D&D setting, and you'd get to make a 3.5 based game. Its also possible you could just drop ALL the magic classes and use CoC's d20, and perhaps Adept as wizard class, with Mythos magic and Insanity on top. :smallbiggrin:


One though ive made: If your setting got a planet vide cityscape, from where do its basic food and other primary agriculture come from? Its what made me think if it had spaceships in it (and thus traveller), but, if it a dark urban world without agriculture, do they use hydropondics, or, would it have big urban wastelands deserted by everything exept roaming gangs or monsters/ghouls/animals?

hamlet
2009-02-05, 12:56 PM
Alternity for the win! (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alternity)

Seriously, I cannot recommend it enough. With the right setup, this system can do everything you want and more.

For added utility, I recommend picking up the psionics and FX books as well.

Animefunkmaster
2009-02-05, 01:09 PM
I am going to second besm 3.0 (not the d20). You should put an attribute level cap without further permission (it seems like 3 should be the cap without gm deals).

The game can run very fast or very slow depending on how you want to roll for most things. Character creation takes a while, but due to everyone being ridiculously powerful from the get go (doesn't mean the monsters aren't either) my experience has been to put points in less useful things and generalize rather than optimize.

The problem is that it doesn't have all these feats and splat books... it is really a one book wonder.

Why doesn't 3.x d20 work for you? Its got tons of splat and little blocks for the players to use to design there character (albeit they might go more combat centric)

Dairun Cates
2009-02-05, 01:19 PM
I'll third Besm 3.0.

Risus is good for about everything with the right GM. If a player wants a little bit of magic, it's a matter of putting a dice in magic. Progression is an optional rule, but it works out pretty well (roll all your dice dice if a trait/cliche came up or the GM laughs so hard milk comes out his nose while drinking mountain dew). If they all come up even, you can either level the stat or start a new cliche at 1 dice. To start the new cliche, you have to have done something towards the progression of that new cliche. Low level ones level fast, high level ones level slowly.

I'll second Mutants and Masterminds 2nd Ed as well. It's really flexible and well-balanced if you pull the reigns on what you don't want in the campaign.

Burning Wheel is also excellent for this. Easily adapted to what you're asking. character creation and progression are deliberate but VERY organic. The base setting is typical Tolkenien fantasy, but adding a bit of tech in isn't hard. The magic casting is VERY low key and involves mostly cantrips. Has the weirdest social combat system ever.

AmberVael
2009-02-05, 04:12 PM
Well, as one of the potential players in question, and since Reina appears to want more input...

I'm a very big fan of the way Seventh Sea builds characters (though I think there are some flaws in its balance). On the other hand, Mutants and Masterminds d20 is probably my favorite d20 system I've used so far (really, it's a quite versatile system).

Spirit of the Century seems interesting, but I'm slightly iffy about the emphasis it seems to have on Fate Points (I've never been a huge fan of Action Points and such variants/systems...)

I highly prefer classless systems (I believe, while somewhat versatile, BESM supports a class system?), so I would like to stay away from anything that focuses a character too much into a single role. Therefore, 3.X is pretty much out for me. What's more, I would definitely like a system that gives combat an equal emphasis with other roleplay aspects (as opposed to focusing on combat).

Tsotha-lanti
2009-02-05, 04:58 PM
Character creation is Fading Suns is pretty similar to that of 7th Sea/L5R (which, in turn, I guess are somewhat similar to WoD). It really is a cool system - 2nd edition, non-d20 - and should be able to handle the style of play described. Reflavoring the psychic powers and miracles as magic shouldn't be hard at all.

Ashtar
2009-02-05, 05:59 PM
Unisystem from All Flesh must be eaten (& other games) is a possibility. System has a list of advantages / disadvantages. Miracles allow expanding into magic. Skill list, modifiers stay low at the start and then rise with experience. Monster (Zombie) creation rules.
The basic rule is 1d10+modifier. If >=9 success, <9 failure.

Oh, and characters are less squishy that CoC.

ObsidianRose
2009-02-05, 06:02 PM
I'll make the same recomendation I always do:

Unhallowed Metropolis. The book comes packed with lore, social stuff, and everything. It's an open ended system with distinctive classes and many options, it's steampunk, it's macabre, and a supplement should be out in a few weeks dealing with the supernatural.

Also, the book is huge. The combat system is gritty, realistic, and detailed without being too slow. It's very roleplaying oriented, and quite easy to homebrew for .

Also, it's a lot of fun. It's pretty too.

Go on, you know you want to.

newdarkage.net

You'll love it forever.