Metamagic question

[RavKal]

I've looked everywhere for this, and i've never found the answer.

Say I had a high Int/Wis/Cha, and with it bonus spells. Now, at lower levels, can I use those bonus spell slots for metamagic-ing spells?

[Swooper]

The bonus spell slots work just like regular spell slots, so yes, of course you can use them for metamagic'd spells.

[Samakain]

so you have access to those bonus spells, even if you cannot cast spells of that level normally?

[Eloel]

Yes you can use those slots for Metamagic'd spells, No, you can't use the levels that you don't yet have access to. So, You could have 500 Int as a Wiz, but you can't use 2nd level spell slots if you're level 1.

[Temp.]

[edit:] I like Douglas's interpretation of the OP more than my own.

Move along.

[Douglas]

I think you misunderstood the question, Swooper. He's asking if, say, a level 1 wizard with a +2 int bonus gets the level 2 bonus spell slot and can use it for a Silent Magic Missile.

The answer is no. You do not get bonus spell slots for any given level of spells until you get regular spell slots for that level of spells. Until then the bonus slots are completely unavailable, not just restricted in use.

For reference, look up any of the various classes that get "0" spells per day for their highest level spells at certain class levels and note that each and every one of them explicitly notes the same difference between "0" spells per day and "-" spells per day. The former means you get bonus spell slots from ability score for that level of spells and can use them if you have them, the latter means you don't get anything for that level of spells at all.

[Swooper]

Seems like I misread the question... My answer remains, but of course, you only get those spell slots when you gain access to the appropriate spell level.

Where were you looking for this anyway? It's quite clear right next to the bonus spell slots table:

In addition to having a high ability score, a spellcaster must be of high enough class level to be able to cast spells of a given spell level.

[Orran]

I think what hes asking is, if he has a 4th level bonus spell slot at level 1 (from 18 cha/int/wis) can he use it to cast an empowered magic missile?

[Swooper]

I think what hes asking is, if he has a 4th level bonus spell slot at level 1 (from 18 cha/int/wis) can he use it to cast an empowered magic missile?
Yeah, we got that by now, and the answer is no. :smalltongue:

[Partysan]

Right, the answer is no. Of course a houserule could be made out of that, but caster are normally considered as already too powerful and free metamagic is considered as one of the most unbalancing factors, so I wouldn't recommend it.

Now, that the matter is clear, there is a small question that I wouldn't make a thread of: I recall reading a (probably metamagic) feat that allowed to exclude single persons of an area effect spell. Does anyone know the name or source?
(sorry for derailing, but since the question has been answered clearly...)

[Temp.]

Does anyone know the name or source?Extraordinary Spell Aim, Complete Adventurer.

[edit:] Shape Spell can also fill this function at an earlier level if you need it. It's a +1 metamagic feat in Complete Arcane. Not quite the same, but it's there.

[RavKal]

Thanks for your help everyone, it's greatly appreciated. The PHB page 7 does say you can't cast spells in the slots, but I was iffy, since metamagic is kind of crazy as is.

I still don't get how that figures in with upper level spells and metamagic, but I didn't read up on that, so my word here isn't worth too much weight.

Once again, thanks, and if you don't see me, I'm lurking right behind you.

[Flickerdart]

Thanks for your help everyone, it's greatly appreciated. The PHB page 7 does say you can't cast spells in the slots, but I was iffy, since metamagic is kind of crazy as is.

I still don't get how that figures in with upper level spells and metamagic, but I didn't read up on that, so my word here isn't worth too much weight.

Once again, thanks, and if you don't see me, I'm lurking right behind you.
Sometimes, it doesn't. You can't Maximize a 9th level spell without Epic spell slots (and that's another headache altogether) or a Rod of Maximize.

There are also lots of ways to mitigate the adjustment such as Spelldancing, Divine Metamagic, Incantrix cheese, and so on, but you can't reduce below 0 total.