Sargeras vs. Sauron (with the Ring)

[ArlEammon]

Sargeras enters a Middle Earth conquered by Darkness. Gandalf is hiding somewhere on the planet planning something. Saruman is currently plotting to overthrow Sauron. However, Sargeras also desires to overthrow this Dark Lord and become the new Dark Lord of Middle Earth.

Sargeras begins to invade the world with his Burning Legion after Saruman is manipulated into conjuring a portal into MIddle Earth. Now, the majority of Middle Earth's orcs are as powerful as Uruk-hai in combat, and there are Balrogs and dragons in Sauron's forces, as well as Shelob and giant spiders.

Sargeras'es mighty army clashes with Sauron's. The Resistance of Middle Earth is hoping that Sargeras and Sauron kill eachother in a personal duel if all the warfare does not accomplish what Sargeras wants.

[nothingclever]

Sargeras is a multiple world/dimension/galaxy/solar system/universe level threat. Sauron is not. There's no way Sauron should be able to win.

[ArlEammon]

He's already as powerful and manipulative as the Lich King without the Ring.

[GoC]

Sargeras is a multiple world/dimension/galaxy/solar system/universe level threat. Sauron is not. There's no way Sauron should be able to win.

But he will and you know why?
Because Sauron fanboys believe that he can beat
Gandalf the Grey and Gandalf the White and
"Monty Python and the Holy Grail"'s Black Knight and
Benito Mussolini and The Blue Meanie and
Cowboy Curtis and Jambi the Genie
Robocop, the Terminator, Captain Kirk, and Darth Vader
Lo Pan, Superman, every single Power Ranger
Bill S. Preston and Theodore Logan,
Spock, The Rock, Doc Ock, and Hulk Hogan
if they came out of nowhere lightning fast
and tried to kick Sauron in his evil ass

They also believe that "Sauron's ring can corrupt ANYTHING to his will!!!11! Even stupidly powerful gods who create universes in the blink of an eye! Tolkien said so!!! Sauron ftw!":smallsigh:

[Texas_Ben]

They also believe that "Sauron's ring can corrupt ANYTHING to his will!!!11! Even stupidly powerful gods who create universes in the blink of an eye! Tolkien said so!!! Sauron ftw!":smallsigh:
Especially stupidly powerful gods, I should think. The ring's corruptive influence is proportional to the being wielding it.

That said, Sauron v Sargeras isn't a fair match. Sargeras is the head honcho while Sauron was just a subordinate to the big bad. Sargeras v Melkor/Morgoth is a much less lopsided matchup.

[chiasaur11]

Curiously enough, the only thing that went through the mind of the bowl of petunias as it fell was Oh no, not again.

I feel it and I can agree on that, even if I don't have a death vendetta against Arthur Dent.

[warty goblin]

But he will and you know why?
Because Sauron fanboys believe that he can beat
Gandalf the Grey and Gandalf the White and
"Monty Python and the Holy Grail"'s Black Knight and
Benito Mussolini and The Blue Meanie and
Cowboy Curtis and Jambi the Genie
Robocop, the Terminator, Captain Kirk, and Darth Vader
Lo Pan, Superman, every single Power Ranger
Bill S. Preston and Theodore Logan,
Spock, The Rock, Doc Ock, and Hulk Hogan
if they came out of nowhere lightning fast
and tried to kick Sauron in his evil ass

They also believe that "Sauron's ring can corrupt ANYTHING to his will!!!11! Even stupidly powerful gods who create universes in the blink of an eye! Tolkien said so!!! Sauron ftw!":smallsigh:

Given the performance of the Italian military in the 1940's, I feel it safe to say that just about anything can beat Mussolini.

[TheSummoner]

Isn't Sargeras already dead though? Given I've been off Warcrack for about a year now so if theres some new plotline that brought him back I wouldn't be aware... but...

Sargeras, no question... if he was alive somehow... If not, Sauron by default... Now... Kil'jaeden V Sauron would be an interesting matchup... On one hand, Sauron could be killed by hobbits... but on the other, the current head honcho of the burning legion was put down by a group of puny mortals who would've been trashed by Arthas at that level... What would possess Blizzard to make Kil'jaeden a boss BEFORE Arthas is beyond me, almost as much as what would possess them to kill off all of their major villians so quickly (seriously... as soon as Arthas is killed, where do they go from there?), but I'm starting to stray into "I could've done it better, just wait til I run my own MMO" territory... which is also starting to give me Warcrack withdrawl symptoms, so I'm just gonna leave it at that...

[Revlid]

Sargeras is a multiple world/dimension/galaxy/solar system/universe level threat. Sauron is not. There's no way Sauron should be able to win.

Err, aside from the part where Sauron helped create and is in fact a fundamental part of the universe, yes.

[Athaniar]

Isn't Sargeras already dead though? Given I've been off Warcrack for about a year now so if theres some new plotline that brought him back I wouldn't be aware... but...

Sargeras, no question... if he was alive somehow... If not, Sauron by default... Now... Kil'jaeden V Sauron would be an interesting matchup... On one hand, Sauron could be killed by hobbits... but on the other, the current head honcho of the burning legion was put down by a group of puny mortals who would've been trashed by Arthas at that level... What would possess Blizzard to make Kil'jaeden a boss BEFORE Arthas is beyond me, almost as much as what would possess them to kill off all of their major villians so quickly (seriously... as soon as Arthas is killed, where do they go from there?), but I'm starting to stray into "I could've done it better, just wait til I run my own MMO" territory... which is also starting to give me Warcrack withdrawl symptoms, so I'm just gonna leave it at that...

Official confirmation has recently been presented that Sargeras is still alive and evil. What Aegwynn, one of the most powerful, if not THE most powerful spellcaster ever, defeated was an avatar of Sargeras. And the Burning Legion has both numbers and strength far greater than what Sauron can muster. About Kil'jaeden in World of Warcraft, you don't kill him, you just banish his half-summoned form back to Argus or wherever he launched the attack from.

My conclusion: Sauron wouldn't stand a chance, not even with his precious One Ring. I, for one, welcome our new Burning Legion overlords.

[GoC]

Err, aside from the part where Sauron helped create and is in fact a fundamental part of the universe, yes.

A. Smaller universe.
B. He didn't help create it, Illuvator made it after the Ainur described it in music.Want the source? Just ask.
And nowhere does it say he's fundamental to the universe, unless you think "so that they are its life and it is theirs" is not a metaphore.

I wish Sauron fans where a bit more truthful.

[Oslecamo]

I wish Sauron fans where a bit more truthful.

You can start by giving the example. Sargeras got OWNED by:

1-An aprentice mage whose main battle strategy is run away with teleport.
2-A pacifist orc.
3-A bunch of elves who've been sleeping for the last thousands of years.
4-Trolls who can't beat the lowest weakest monsters in that world(murlocs).
5-Taurens who're unable to use any weapon more sophisticated than big sticks.

So, a massive army of demons and undeads get stoped right on the tracks by that combination.

Sauron, on the other hand, controls an army roughly the same size of the World of Warcraft alliance, but includes:
1-Wizards wich don't die unless you hit them with plot power.
2-Bloodthirsty orcs with advanced weaponry and armor(compared to the naked horde orcs)
3-Trolls worthy of said name.
4-Human mercenaries with war mamoths able to crush whole armies under their feets.

So, since Azeroth managed to crush Sargeras invasion, I don't see why Sauron can't do the same, really.

[Athaniar]

You can start by giving the example. Sargeras got OWNED by:

1-An aprentice mage whose main battle strategy is run away with teleport.
2-A pacifist orc.
3-A bunch of elves who've been sleeping for the last thousands of years.
4-Trolls who can't beat the lowest weakest monsters in that world(murlocs).
5-Taurens who're unable to use any weapon more sophisticated than big sticks.

So, a massive army of demons and undeads get stoped right on the tracks by that combination.

But Sargeras (as far as we know) wasn't leading that invasion (it sounds like you're talking about the Second Invasion here). Also, you are extremely biased. It took the combined force of the Alliance, including arch-sorceress Jaina Proudmoore (the "aprentice mage"?); the Horde, including not-very-pacifist-when-it-comes-to-the-Burning-Legion shaman slash gladiator Thrall; the Night Elves, including Malfurion Stormrage, one of Azeroth's most powerful beings and the über-powered Illidan Stormrage, having just absorbed the Sull of Gul'dan. The betrayal of the Scourge also helped the good guys.

"Taurens who're unable to use any weapon more sophisticated than big sticks."? You call this suspiciously axe-like implement (http://www.battle.net/war3/orc/units/taurenchieftain.shtml) a big stick? And you conveniently seem to have forgotten about magic. No, the forces of good mustered everything they had got to stop the Legion. And, as I said, Sargeras did probably not even lead that invasion. Probably.

And if Malfurion's trap had failed to destroy Archimonde, well...

I can see what GoC is talking about now...

[TheSummoner]

Official confirmation has recently been presented that Sargeras is still alive and evil. What Aegwynn, one of the most powerful, if not THE most powerful spellcaster ever, defeated was an avatar of Sargeras. And the Burning Legion has both numbers and strength far greater than what Sauron can muster. About Kil'jaeden in World of Warcraft, you don't kill him, you just banish his half-summoned form back to Argus or wherever he launched the attack from.

My conclusion: Sauron wouldn't stand a chance, not even with his precious One Ring. I, for one, welcome our new Burning Legion overlords.

I didn't really think Blizzard would let him be dead permanently... they're running low on Villians. And I also knew about their half-***ed half summoned excuse. Yeah, its their game, they can do what they want, but by putting Kil'jaeden before Arthas as a boss, they're sending a clear sign that Arthas is the stronger of the two...

And once again, where do they go after they kill Arthas? What villians do they have left? Sure, they could create entirely new villians, but the thing that made WoW so popular in the first place was the connection between it and the WC RTS games... and then so many people played that it any new player to an MMO would likely pick WoW... Point is, they could pull a new antagonist out of their butts, but it wouldn't be as satisfying...

[Athaniar]

I didn't really think Blizzard would let him be dead permanently... they're running low on Villians. And I also knew about their half-***ed half summoned excuse. Yeah, its their game, they can do what they want, but by putting Kil'jaeden before Arthas as a boss, they're sending a clear sign that Arthas is the stronger of the two...

And once again, where do they go after they kill Arthas? What villians do they have left? Sure, they could create entirely new villians, but the thing that made WoW so popular in the first place was the connection between it and the WC RTS games... and then so many people played that it any new player to an MMO would likely pick WoW... Point is, they could pull a new antagonist out of their butts, but it wouldn't be as satisfying...

Villains, huh? Let's see... The Old Gods (perhaps THE main antagonists of the Warcraft Universe), Deathwing (whose current status is alive and well), The Elemental Lords, Queen Azshara, whatever is causing the Emerald Nightmare, all the Demon Lords (Azgalor, Mephistroth, Mal'Ganis, yours truly), and that's hardly all. They have enough material for at least 5 expansion packs, including major patches. They can even bring back some old ones if they feel bored, like they did with Arugal.

[Talkkno]

I didn't really think Blizzard would let him be dead permanently... they're running low on Villians. And I also knew about their half-***ed half summoned excuse. Yeah, its their game, they can do what they want, but by putting Kil'jaeden before Arthas as a boss, they're sending a clear sign that Arthas is the stronger of the two...

And once again, where do they go after they kill Arthas? What villians do they have left? Sure, they could create entirely new villians, but the thing that made WoW so popular in the first place was the connection between it and the WC RTS games... and then so many people played that it any new player to an MMO would likely pick WoW... Point is, they could pull a new antagonist out of their butts, but it wouldn't be as satisfying...
Kil'jaeden is more a manipulater and schemer then a brute force type of sorts anyways.

[nothingclever]

You can start by giving the example. Sargeras got OWNED by:

1-An aprentice mage whose main battle strategy is run away with teleport.
2-A pacifist orc.
3-A bunch of elves who've been sleeping for the last thousands of years.
4-Trolls who can't beat the lowest weakest monsters in that world(murlocs).
5-Taurens who're unable to use any weapon more sophisticated than big sticks.

So, a massive army of demons and undeads get stoped right on the tracks by that combination.

Sauron, on the other hand, controls an army roughly the same size of the World of Warcraft alliance, but includes:
1-Wizards wich don't die unless you hit them with plot power.
2-Bloodthirsty orcs with advanced weaponry and armor(compared to the naked horde orcs)
3-Trolls worthy of said name.
4-Human mercenaries with war mamoths able to crush whole armies under their feets.

So, since Azeroth managed to crush Sargeras invasion, I don't see why Sauron can't do the same, really.
It's disgusting how you skew things to fit your point of view.

Sargeras threatens the entire universe of Warcraft. Sauron does not threaten his entire universe.
Sargeras has been said to have basically everything evil on his side or just practically infinite armies.
Your stuff about him beaten doesn't matter at all because like it or not Sargeras is never actually fought when he's at his strongest.

A mage beats him when only an avatar or a fragment of his being is sent into the world/dimension of Azeroth.
The mage that beats this piece of him is one of the most powerful mages ever. I don't if it is the most powerful and I'm not going to bother checking.
Sargeras probably let himself get beaten because after the physical form of whatever he sent gets destroyed it possesses the mage and corrupts her and her son in the end letting him cause more trouble in the long run.

Whenever Sargeras gets beat it is one of his minions that is actually getting beaten or an illusion or fragment of his power.

He helped create his universe and can destroy worlds. He already is supposed to have destroyed parts of the universe but I don't know whether novels list the parts specifically. He's also supposed to be stronger than the other titans that made the universe otherwise they would easily beat him every time because they outnumber him.

The only reason Sargeras doesn't destroy Azeroth is because then there would be no game and no story afterwards.

In this versus battle if Sauron is fighting Sargeras without anything between them except their armies then that means Sargeras can use his full power to beat Sauron easily.

Who cares how great the one ring is? I'm pretty sure Sauron needed other people to make it for him.

Sargeras could tell a few planets worth of evil people to spend all their time making an even better ring and whatever else he wants.

Sargeras has way more resources. Evil all over the universe is drawn to him. He controls multiple worlds.

Why do you Sauron fanboys always try to argue things you don't actually know much about? You know you're misconstruing things when you say them but you do it anyways.

I don't like Warcraft and I don't really care about this discussion but I think it's sad when people boldly lie over and over again in arguments about fictional characters. Give it up already. Stop trying to downplay everything else to make your favourite fictional character win.

"Oh Sauron can easily beat Superman because lots of silly villians have beaten Superman before."

Actually no, Sauron can't, he'd be obliterated. The ridiculously silly and poorly written Superman stories shouldn't count where Superman is written with the intellectual capacity of a houseplant. You wouldn't want the worst parts of Sauron's descriptions being used to primarily describe the character so don't go doing that to whoever you're debating.

When people compare to fictional characters it simply isn't fair to pick the best moments of one character and worst moments of another to compare each as a whole.

It is just really sad. Find something better to do with your life.

This versus thread scenario would be better if Middle Earth and Azeroth were put together and all the good guys were taken out of the equation. Say Sargeras gets every ally he has on Azeroth already at a certain point in time and Sauron gets every ally he has on Middle Earth at a certain point in time.
Then ask the question of whether Sauron and his forces can stop Sargeras from entering a portal to this new world and destroying everything or if Sargeras can stop Sauron from conquering the world and getting his ring first.

Sargeras vs Sauron with nothing between them is an instant win for Sargeras. Sargeras can be depicted in the weakest way possible but at the end of the day he's supposed to threaten an entire universe with many worlds with many people protecting them meaning he should obviously be stronger than Sauron since he is only depicted as threatening one.

Sauron fanboys make any excuse to have their character win. If all the modern day nuclear weapons were used on Sauron and his minions a Sauron fanboy would say they have no effect because even though nuclear weapons can destroy our entire planet the fictional materials that make up Middle Earth and its people are actually a billion times stronger than the materials our world is made of even though they have no evidence to support this claim.

[Oslecamo]

It's disgusting how you skew things to fit your point of view.
Since everybody else does it, I may as well keep the trend.


OMG Sargeras is so UBER he pwns anything LOLZ you noob he just doesn't conquered the universe already because then he wouldn't have anything to entertain him


See? Sargeras fanboysm all the way.

I'll reply with a simple fact:

He not only failed to conquer Azeroth but actually made them more united and powerfull, and they proceeded to go to the demonic lands(whatever their name) and raid the burning legion forces on their own territorry.

Who's invading who now? It may be part of some millenia long plan. Or he simply has been spreading propaganda.

He may have been all powerfull at some very distant point of the past, but he clearly decayed, since from what we know he NEVER fought his own battles, so he isn't allmighty. His legions aren't infinite, and Azeroth is still standing, so so much for planet destroying powers.



When people compare to fictional characters it simply isn't fair to pick the best moments of one character and worst moments of another to compare each as a whole.


Who's picking Sauron's best moments? He was much more powerfull before. They're both at their bad moments.

We NEVER see Sargeras strong moments. Only long past stories of said moments. So guess what? Perhaps they never hapened.

As it happens with WH40K, the novel authors have a really bad tendency of twisting the history in the name of the rule of cool. So we really can't use them as cannon, or we end up with space marines demons who can destroy galaxies with a glare.

EDIT:If anything, Sargeras still belongs to Blizzard. So if Sargeras becomes a fightable character, he's nerfed untill he can be taken down by a group of forty heros. Don't worry, he respawns some time later. To be raped again. And again. And again. Yeah, it sucks to be a villain in the Blizzard universe.

[konfeta]

since from what we know he NEVER fought his own battles, so he isn't allmighty.

Except, you know, for the part where he pretty much kicked the collective asses of countless demonic legions solo while on the Pantheon's pay role.

But go ahead, keep twisting.

[GolemsVoice]

I realize, though I am by no means a Sauron expert, that Sauron is no weakling, and has things other than sheer brute force going for him, but this is a fight he just can't win. Remember how people argued about the Lich King vs. Sauron thread? That was because both sides had viable arguments on their side, and both sides had several points that spoke strongly in their favor. Now, if Arthas can give Sauron such a though fight, he is no match for Sargeras. I really don't want to underestimate Sauron, or belittle him and the people who speak out for him, but Sargeras and Sauron are in no way on the same scale. Sargeras is the god of gods, he walks between the stars, and his touch and words alone are enough to brinng despair to whole planets, or turn others to his side. He is a cosmic force, literally, and, by his powers alone, has shaped worlds. That is power Sauron just can't match.
Yes, several people have fought Sargeras, or rather, his legions, and won. But always remember: Warcraft is centered around a game, it's game first, story second. And because it is a game, it has to adhere to certain rules. A Warcraft III where the first mission is also the last, because you are overrun by unending waves of demons is pretty pointless, and telling a story which begins, and ends: "And then Sargeras wiped every life from the face of the world and rejoiced" won't sell copies. Be mindful of that when judging the strength of a being form his depiction in games. Would LotR somehow become WoW, you would pretty soon find yourself with the "Veteran of the Black Gate" or "100 Quests in Mordor" achievments.

But now to some points brought up in this thread:
First thing: I realize that the Warcraft fanbase and the LotR fanbase has developed somewhat of an enmity, and I think that is sad. The only purpose of a versus thread should be, in my opinion, to make intellectual exercises and sharpen one's discussion skills while seeing his favorite franchise win, or, if they lose, gain new insight into another franchise one did not have before. Therefore, iscussion should always be civil and in the spirit of shared fun. Do not let your feelings for one side, whether they be positive or negative, allow you to say things you might regret, and never let your dislike of one side spread to the persons posting for this side.

That said, here we go:

He may have been all powerfull at some very distant point of the past, but he clearly decayed, since from what we know he NEVER fought his own battles, so he isn't allmighty. His legions aren't infinite, and Azeroth is still standing, so so much for planet destroying powers.
I think I've already answered that one. Players need a challenge, but a game without hope isn't much of a game, and nobody would pay money for that.


As it happens with WH40K, the novel authors have a really bad tendency of twisting the history in the name of the rule of cool. So we really can't use them as cannon, or we end up with space marines demons who can destroy galaxies with a glare.
Well, they surely CAN, and it has been done. At the beginning of one Undead mission in the original Warcraft III, Khel'tuzad, who has certainly come into contact with demons, states that the Burning Legion send the Scourge to soften Azeroth up for the upcoming invasion, and he also tells Arthas that the Legion has destroyed planets before, and twisted them to be their staging grounds. Of course, one could argue that Khel'tuzad is again only refering to hearsay and rumors, but rumors of a force eating up whole worlds isn't something you make up to have some fun a t a bar. I think we can accept his judgement, as he has a) been instructed by demons, since he was sent to watch over Arthas, and b) was, in life, a powerful wzard, with full access to the Kirin Tor's enormous libraries. If there is any place to learn of demons and history, it's there.

Then there are the Eredar, a whole race of beings he corrupted himself, and whose planet he turned (if it still exists, sources are unclear) into a hellhole and a stronghold for his kind.



We NEVER see Sargeras strong moments. Only long past stories of said moments. So guess what? Perhaps they never hapened.

That really doesn't make for a good discussion. If we can't take some things as given, there is no need to argue, as there is no place to argue. Maybe Sauron just wants to be good, but can't, because his wife tells him she would never be able to look the neighbours into the eyes if her husband became a hero? We must take certain things for granted. While the point you raise makes for a very interesting discussion among Warcraft scholars, it really doesn't belong here.


You can start by giving the example. Sargeras got OWNED by:

1-An aprentice mage whose main battle strategy is run away with teleport.
2-A pacifist orc.
3-A bunch of elves who've been sleeping for the last thousands of years.
4-Trolls who can't beat the lowest weakest monsters in that world(murlocs).
5-Taurens who're unable to use any weapon more sophisticated than big sticks.

Other's have said it, I'm not going to elaborate it again. Sargeras wasn't beaten in person, he never was, and he seems to have the kind of power that keeps a whole pantheon of other Titans at bay. His legions sure are not invulnerable, but this leads back to the game vs. fiction point I mentioned before. But always remember: Sauron was, in the end, beaten by a rag-tag band of heroes, especially two very brave, but otherwise completely untrained and unprepared member's of the race generally considered to be Middle Earth's least warlike and heroic race.
Mind you, that doesn't make LotR a bad story, but keep this in mind when pointing out flaws.

[GoC]

You can start by giving the example. Sargeras got OWNED by:

1-An aprentice mage whose main battle strategy is run away with teleport.
2-A pacifist orc.
3-A bunch of elves who've been sleeping for the last thousands of years.
4-Trolls who can't beat the lowest weakest monsters in that world(murlocs).
5-Taurens who're unable to use any weapon more sophisticated than big sticks.
Oh? So I lied somewhere in that post? I didn't even mention Sargeras.
For the record I have never played any warcraft game.

GolemsVoice: Sauron was defeated in an army vs. army battle that had some of the leaders personally fighting him at some point. For all we know it could have been just him and an orc against the entire elfish horde (very very very unlikely) or it could have been an even battle and he was killed after only killing a couple of the dudes who dared face him.
Also, the "rag-tag band of heroes" is mostly untrue. They were mostly kings and princes. It also compares them to RPG heros despite the fact that they don't level up or get stat increases and are thus have bodies just as weak as a fairly tough elf/human.

[Athaniar]

To quote the official RPG concernign Sargeras's fighting skill:



As a former Champion of the titans, Sargeras is nearly impervious to physical damage. He is highly resistant to magical attacks. His natural attacks are more powerful than other titans. Demonic influences have given Sargeras' body flames and made him totally immune to fire damage and fel damage. Sargeras’ flesh burns with demonic energy, scorching everything in his path. Sargeras' body flames slowly increase the ambient temperature by up to fifty degrees in every direction for one thousand miles. The effect on natural climates can be devastating.

When he has his normal horde of demons on hand, Sargeras usually begins a fight by casting enlarge person, displacement, haste, mage armor and mage shield on himself, plus slow on as many enemies as he can. He identifies the most powerful threat in a battle and instructs his own most powerful forces to focus on the single threat until it's dead or at least banished from the fight. He then identifies the next most dangerous foe and continues in this way, working down the ladder until he is victorious. Sargeras uses his most powerful spells and abilities first, such as domination on evil outsiders; energy drain on an enemy spellcaster; blasphemy on visitors from other planes; or power word stun, disintegrate, phantasmal killer, and flame strike. He uses quickened telekinesis to toss enemies around and disrupt his enemies’ attempts to coordinate their side of the battle.

Sargeras is deadly in melee combat. He has no problem forcing his way with his demon bodyguards through enemy lines to strike at the most dangerous foes. If somehow severely damaged, Sargeras begins casting dimension door to maintain his distance while using heal to restore his life. All other tactics aside, Sargeras’ truly favored tactic is to use summoned minions to aid him. If the battle is going to rage for a long time, he uses planar binding spells to bring forth powerful evil outsiders and dominates them. As the battle draws on, he uses summon monster spells instead.


Oh, what a pathetic, weak little wimp that Sargeras is...

Another quote (or near-quote):


The strength of 100 dragons is merely a fraction of Sargeras' strength

[GolemsVoice]

GolemsVoice: Sauron was defeated in an army vs. army battle that had some of the leaders personally fighting him at some point. For all we know it could have been just him and an orc against the entire elfish horde (very very very unlikely) or it could have been an even battle and he was killed after only killing a couple of the dudes who dared face him.
Also, the "rag-tag band of heroes" is mostly untrue. They were mostly kings and princes. It also compares them to RPG heros despite the fact that they don't level up or get stat increases and are thus have bodies just as weak as a fairly tough elf/human.

As I already said, Sauron is by no means a weakling. He is very powerful, moreso as he is given access to the Ring in this scenario, and would it just be Burning Legion versus Sauron and his men, Sauron would probably win, if only with the help of the Ring, I suppose. Provided he doesn't get his finger chopped off when he's not watching.
But as soon as Sargeras enters the fray, Sauron is toast.


Also, the "rag-tag band of heroes" is mostly untrue. They were mostly kings and princes. It also compares them to RPG heros despite the fact that they don't level up or get stat increases and are thus have bodies just as weak as a fairly tough elf/human.
I'll give you that, most of them were important people, and as well trained in their respective fields of combat as any man can expect them them to be, and they DO fight their share of orcs, goblins and whatnot. But as you say, they were, in the end, mortals or semi-mortals, in Legolas' case, and in LotR martial power and authority don't equal as much as they do in other settings, of which Warcraft a prime example.
I don't know if you realize how ridicilously powerful the Warcraft universe is. It has a certain touch of Warhammer 40k, let me tell you. Just and example, from a quest you have to do in Icecrown, the Lich King's fortress.
The Argent Crusade, an independent anti-scourge organization of, well, crusaders, has jus assaulted the Lich King's walls (which ARE a homage to Mordor, as it is portrayed in the film and the books) and have been beaten. After reopening the breach for them, you are asked to find a crusader Bridenbrand, and individual who has performed heroic deed on the battlefield, which helped several others to escape alive. But he himself has gone missing. Eventually, you find him, and learn that he has been infected with the Pladue, which will first kill him and then raise hm as one of the undead he so despises.
To prevent this, the leader of the Argent Crusade asks you to call in some of the favors he has with certain powerful beings. YOu first ahve to ask one of the last remaining sons of a half-god, but his method fails. Then you have to ask one of the dragon aspects, who were set in plae to watch over Azeroth and it's wellbeing. But this also fails. Last, you have to ask beings of pure Light to heal him, but all they can do is to make sure his souls enters paradise, and his body does not raise as a ghoul or a skeleeton.
All that for just one crusader, on single man who was not even an officer of sorts. That would be like traveling across the see to the home of the Valar to ask them to raise Boromir, and, should that fail, somehow reach Illuvatar's throne and implore him. And that would just be a quest among others.

[Texas_Ben]

ITT: Warcraft fans are pissy.

[Roland St. Jude]

Sheriff of Moddingham: Given this board's general disfavor of versus threads and this one's quick devolution into flaming...thread locked.