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View Full Version : [3.5] Need help for sorc PrC



Arakune
2009-02-05, 07:23 AM
I don't want to lose access to 9th level spells. Anyone have sugestions?

RMS Oceanic
2009-02-05, 07:25 AM
What level are you now? What spells have you chosen?

That said, Sorcerors can't go wrong with the Archmage, although the entry requirements can be tricky to reach if you haven't planned ahead.

Arakune
2009-02-05, 07:33 AM
Only first level.

Spell selection are not all that optimized for now (magic missile and charm person?) but it's just the beginnig.

kamikasei
2009-02-05, 08:09 AM
There are all kinds of full caster PrCs which are good for sorcerors. Maybe Mage of the Arcane Order (CArc) for versatility?

Uin
2009-02-05, 08:16 AM
Either classes which help with your spell variety;

Shadowcraft Mage allows you to emulate whole schools with illusions. (Races of Stone, Gnome)

Or something to help you bypass full-round metamagic;

Recaster gives you free metamagic effects without a casting time increase. (Races of Eberron, Changling)

valadil
2009-02-05, 10:37 AM
If you're looking to use a lot of metamagic, Incantatrix is amazing if your GM will allow it. Even the relatively gimpy 3.0 version is better than most arcane PrCs out there.

Swooper
2009-02-05, 11:10 AM
There are all kinds of full caster PrCs which are good for sorcerors. Maybe Mage of the Arcane Order (CArc) for versatility?
I'll second this - The versatility you get from MotAO is awesome. You only need to pick up the Arcane Preparation feat as an added prerequisite over a wizard.

I'll also throw in Fatespinner since no-one else has (unless I get ninja'd). Very powerful for about four levels, the fifth one is generally regarded as not worth it.

A one level dip into Mindbender gets you Telepathy. Initiate of the Sevenfold Veil is of course one of the best arcane PrCs, but regarded cheesy (and for good reason!). Same deal with Incantatrix. Archmage is good for the higher levels if you can manage the prerequisites.

ravenkith
2009-02-08, 10:45 PM
Ok, this is actually a question I'm trying to answer for myself at the moment, so it's far from an academic exercise for me.

A large part of what you do is going to be determined by what stats you have: if you have a lot of good stats, you can be open to a number of MAD (multiple ability dependent) strategies.

I was lucky enough to be allowed to roll 4d6 reroll 1s, drop the lowest for my stats.

Unfortunately the reason for this generosity was the setting: we're playing in Oriental Adventures.

This means that I was left with relatively few choices: the OA samurai and the CADV Ninja had already been picked by the time I got to the table, which left me with a caster role to fill in a system that allows for wujen, shugenja, spirit shamans and sorcerors.

Per the DM, if it wasn't in the OA books or an updated version of an oriental class, it wasn't allowed as a base. PRCs and feats were free choice, but since we were starting at 5th level, unlikely to be a major factor except as a design concern.

Sorceror is the only one of the classes available with full access to the arcane spell list. Shugenja and Wujen are so limited as to be laughable. SPirit Shaman (being an update of sorts to the original shaman class) is viable, but limited to the druid spell list, and the class itself is MAD. So I settled on Sorceror.

I ended up with:

STR: 10
DEX: 17
CON: 16
INT: 14
WIS: 14
CHA: 18

I put my 4th level point into Dex, bringing it up to 18.

I then looked at a ton of prestige classes. Five really stood out to me.

Sandshaper (Sandstorm) - Really, really good. Adds a lot of spells known
Incantatrix (Players Guide To Faerun) - Very nasty high level options
Mage of the Arcane Order (Complete Arcane) - Ultimate versatility boost to Sorceror
Fiendblooded (Heres of Horror) - A thematic all-around improvement over the Sorc base class, with a bunch of benefits including bonus spells known, improved caster level, etc..
Sacred Excorcist (Complete Divine) - Hey, look, I get turn attempts....which means I get access to Divine Metamagic!

There were things I liked from each of these classes, but ultimately it would be difficult to take them all, and most likely counter-productive.

One of the more potent combinations would most likely be Sacred Exorcist/Incantatrix, allowing you to go metamagic happy, with the right feats. Incantatrix can be entered at level 7. Sacred Exorcist comes your way around level 12. Both are full progression classes, so no 9th level spells are lost from the normal sorceror, and you get a slew of extra feats and abilties you normally would not. A key trick is to pick up Divine Metamagic: Persistant Spell, along with a few Nightsticks (Libris Mortis). This gets even better if you can fit in Archmage.

I didn't want to get too cheesy, so I threw this idea out.

I've since settled on some sort of combination of Mage of the Arcane Order and Fiendblooded, although I haven't ruled out trying to get cure spells added to my list: Ultimately I'd like to have a DD reserve Feat (Complete mage, e.g. Thunderclap) and Touch of Healing (Complete Champion). and be able to dance all day without weighing down my non-caster companions.

ATM:

Sorc 5/MOTAO 1-4/Fiendblooded 1-10/XXX 1

Fax Celestis
2009-02-08, 10:53 PM
Any PrC which gives you free spells known (like Dracolexi from Races of the Dragon) is amazing for a sorceror.

The Glyphstone
2009-02-08, 10:57 PM
I'm almost certain Divine Metamagic was explicitly errata'ed to only work with Divine spells, which means you'll need the Alternative Spell Source feat from Dragon, which requires burning 1 level on a divine spellcasting class.

Sstoopidtallkid
2009-02-08, 11:02 PM
Sandshaper is nice. I love anything that boosts spells known for the Sorc. There's a few other PrCs that do so as well, though I can't think of any off the top of my head.
You got really nice rolls, have you considered going Gish, Theurge, or Rainbow Savant?

Krimm_Blackleaf
2009-02-08, 11:02 PM
Here's a good one. (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=101436):smallbiggrin:

ravenkith
2009-02-08, 11:47 PM
Sandshaper is nice. I love anything that boosts spells known for the Sorc. There's a few other PrCs that do so as well, though I can't think of any off the top of my head.
You got really nice rolls, have you considered going Gish, Theurge, or Rainbow Savant?

I thought about going theurge. I then decided against it. Despite the campaign supposedly being 'low magic', when the group needs a get out of jail free card, it's usually of the best kind that would normally be available. The slow spell progression of theurge + Sorceror would likely prove lethal, despite my DM allowing Precocious spellcaster to function for early entry.

I also thought about going Rainbow Servant: the problem is, my DM (I'm 99% certain) will most likely state that the table overrules the text as far as spell progression is concerned in this case.

Finally, Gish would be fine if I wasn't having to act as primary and sole caster. If the group is going to survive, I think I'm almost going to have to focus on battlefield control.

I've also given some thought to working into Archmage, but there just aren't enough feats. :(

Sstoopidtallkid
2009-02-09, 12:06 AM
If your DM allows Precocious Apprentice then you lose only one spell level off of your divine class to do a Theurge, and if you are the only caster you'll need the flexibility. I don't know what Shuninja and Spirit Shaman can do, but Sorc 1/Divine Class 3/MT 10/Divine PRC 6 gives you 19 levels of Divine and 11 of Sorc. If the Divine Class qualifies you for Arcane Heirophant or something, then you end up with 19/17 casting, which is even better.

If you don't want to, though, I can only reiterate my love for Sandshaper, Voyeristic Seer, and all of their ilk. Any class that adds to spells known helps defeat your main limiter. In that same vein, Bloodline feats and Arcane Disciple(especially with your rolls) are incredible.

Deth Muncher
2009-02-09, 12:24 AM
First, may I direct you to Solo's Guide in my signature.

Now, that being done, I'm also supporting Mage of the Arcane Order and Sandshaper. MotAO is great, because you can fairly well abuse the spellpool all you want, and pay back ther spelldebt during heavy RP sessions where you don't burn many spells. Downside being that you have to actually go to the Spell College once a year, as I recall. Sandshaper is delicious, IF you're playing a desert campaign. You get a free Overland Flight so long as you're over waste terrain, as well and LOTS of druid spells and regular buff spells. Also, you may be able to retrain some of those spells with the sorceror class thing about that, but I'm not sure.

ravenkith
2009-02-09, 02:14 AM
I've put some more thought into the question of gishing.

After some deliberation and research, I've patterned out the following:

Paladin 2/Sorceror 4/Spellsword 1 (CWar)/Abjurant Champion 5 (CMag)/ Sacred Exorcist 8 (CDiv)

Now what this does is give you BAB: +16, FORT: 9, REF: 6, WILL: 16, and caster level 18 as a Sorceror.

A key point is that you also get your Charisma Bonus added into all saves: In my case this makes the saves 13/9/20 before applying level gains from 8,12 16 or 20, or even magic items.

All martial weapons, armor and shields (although, with abchamp, we'll be relying on spells, not armor). Not to mention the rather spiffy 7d10+4d4+9d8+60 we get for HP over 20 levels and I think the character is relatively tough.

Add in some DMM persist (We tend not to use errata), maybe the force blade reserve feat...mmm, now that's some high quality cheese.

Am I missing anything?

Tempest Fennac
2009-02-09, 02:56 AM
Mindbender may not be the best PrC for a Sorcerer due to how few class skills (and skill points) you have. What are your stats and race, and what are the other players using? I'd recommend Grease at level 1 if there's a Rogue in the party while taking Magic Missile later on. What are your main aims regarding your spell selection? If you decide to go Archmage, I'll help you out if you have problems picking spells out.

Arakune
2009-02-09, 09:13 AM
Mindbender may not be the best PrC for a Sorcerer due to how few class skills (and skill points) you have. What are your stats and race, and what are the other players using? I'd recommend Grease at level 1 if there's a Rogue in the party while taking Magic Missile later on. What are your main aims regarding your spell selection? If you decide to go Archmage, I'll help you out if you have problems picking spells out.

Human Sorc 1

Str 10, Dex 13, Con 15, Int 12, Wis 10, Cha 17

Skills: Bluff 4, Concentration 4, Know: Arcana 4, SpellCraft 4

Feats: Exchew Material components and Spell Focus: Enchantment

Spells: Magic Missle and Charm Person

Main aims are to stay alive, be the party face and some tactical flexibility.