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Lyndworm
2009-02-05, 05:02 PM
I'm sure we all remember the various destruction wrought upon the world by the dreaded poultrymancers of lore. Any chance I could get a link to build threads? Anything would be appreciated, thanks.

arguskos
2009-02-05, 05:06 PM
Here's the build: Commoner 1/??? 19

Why? It doesn't really matter. Just get a spell component pouch, take the flaw, and you're good to go. Nothing else really matters. Go make chickens until doomsday. :smallcool:

Keld Denar
2009-02-05, 05:19 PM
The most common CI build is Commoner1/Warlock8 with The Dead Walk invocation. Nab Corpsecrafter and Destructive Retribution from Libris Mortis: The Book of Bad Latin, and go to town. Get a spell component pouce (always a free action to draw from) and start drawing stuff out. Half of it will be chickens, so just toss em on the ground. Have someone with Great Cleave or similar kill ALL of them. Next round reanimate them all as skeletal chickens (1/4 HD?) with The Dead Walk, and apply all of your Corpsecrafter feats. Now, in the next 8 minutes, sick your hoarde of angry death chickens on whatever it is that drew your ire and watch as they all explode upon death into 1d6 negative energy damage bursts. Hillarity ensues.

Plus, since its only temporary, you don't have to pay the expensive material components for Animate Dead....unless you want it to be permanent.

A more elaborate build would be Commoner1/ClericX using a DMM: Fel Animate Greater Consumptive Field. GCF automatically kills anything with 8 HP or less, and Fel Animate automatically raises anything killed by the spell as a zombie. Then just start drawing chickens and each one will be an expoloding zombie doom chicken.

And for extra kicks, grab the feat Tomb Tainted Soul, also from LM, so that negative energy heals you and positive hurts you. Now all of your exploding chickens will HEAL you, giving you a nearly infinitely supply of healing.

AdamSmasher
2009-02-05, 05:58 PM
What's all this about chickens, now?

Myou
2009-02-05, 06:03 PM
What's all this about chickens, now?

Chicken Infested is a flaw from Dragon Magazine. Available only to commoners, it gives the commoner a 50% chance, whenever they draw an item, to get a chicken.

What the creator failed to see is that when you draw an item from a spell component pouch or drop an item, it's a free action, so a commoner with this flaw can effectively create an infinite number of chickens as a free action.

Tokiko Mima
2009-02-05, 07:19 PM
Question: Could not a non-commoner without the feat also produce infinite amounts of bat guano on command?

Tacoma
2009-02-05, 07:23 PM
It also seems like "drawing an item" would include dumping a barrel of iron filings onto the ground. That's a few hundred thousand "drawn items" so you'd end up dumping half that number as chickens instead?

Or am I missing something?

(Maybe why this chicken thing makes sense at all)

JeminiZero
2009-02-05, 07:36 PM
Someone else wrote the below, but I can't remember who. I think it was Aquillon in his commoner guide:



Unless these materials are elaborate preparing these materials is a free action. For material components and focuses whose costs are not listed, you can assume that you have them if you have your spell component pouch.

And spell component pouches never run out of components. You don't actually need to be a caster; you can buy one cheap, even with your starting gold. Oh, and dropping an item is also a free action.

You can see where this is going. A chicken-infested commoner with a spell component pouch can, therefore, produce an arbitrary number of chickens as a free action. Yeah, sure, unlimited gold by selling them, impressive party tricks... who cares.

Now imagine your party is standing outside a dungeon, worried about what's inside. Before anyone can react, you've produced enough chickens to fill it to the bursting, until there's not enough room for anyone in there to breathe. Party being chased? Block off a hallway with chickens. Need battlefield alteration? Meet the new 'spell' my commoner can produce as a free action, which I call 'Wall of Chickens'.

Need to cross a ravine or pit? Fill it with chickens. Need to check for traps? There aren't very many traps that won't go off when ten thousand chickens are stampeded over them.

Team up with your wizard. The wizard uses Disintegrate to drop the BBEG in a pit, and you... bury them in chickens. Instantly.

Set up a Teleportation Circle into the BBEG's base. Stand over it. Produce chickens until their base literally explodes.

If you're ever in a situation where you can't survive, go for the broke and fill all of creation with chickens. Just imagine the reaction of people halfway around the world when every square inch of space in their world is suddenly and completely full of chickens.

It hardly needs to be said, but your party never needs to worry about starving again.


Besides that, the other Chicken infested build (that isn't quite as cheesy as the above) is the The Exalted Flaming Chicken Thrower (http://forums.gleemax.com/showthread.php?t=844086).

Tacoma
2009-02-05, 07:48 PM
So does a Chicken Infested commoner pretty much immediately go to level 6 or so because he can create a chicken in thin air above a cliff and watch it fall? Up to whatever level you stop getting XP for killing chickens.
It's a Tippyverse thing. Suddenly nobody can ever die of hunger, just malnutrition due to vitamin deficiency. But farmers everywhere can just grow leeks and such instead of animals to make up for it. The value of a chicken drops to virtually nil. Same with feathers, chicken blood, chicken bones, etc.

Tippyverse. And if it's not unbalanced to draw a chicken, why not create a feat that lets you draw a lump of coal instead? Suddenly the world has no problems with heating or fuel for forges and such. A feat to draw a scrap of iron? Whoops, now metal is basically valueless.

Incidentally this is also a problem with the spell component pouches. Spell components were meant to be a meaningful part of being a caster. If you're just going to pencil-whip it then say there are no components except ones that have a GP value.

MickJay
2009-02-05, 08:02 PM
Tippyverse. And if it's not unbalanced to draw a chicken, why not create a feat that lets you draw a lump of coal instead? Suddenly the world has no problems with heating or fuel for forges and such. A feat to draw a scrap of iron? Whoops, now metal is basically valueless.

You can use chickens as fuel as well (they may need to be killied first, though), processed can be of great use in the building industry, you have infinite amount of the key material for pillows and and such, you can fertilize fields with them, create enough for every person to level up by killing them, up to the point when they stop getting xp for that, sky's the limit...

ShneekeyTheLost
2009-02-05, 08:04 PM
Actually, this can easily lead into an infinite damage combo:

Commoner1/PsiWar5/WarMind5.

Feats: Power Attack, Cleave, Great Cleave

The Combo:

He has a spell component pouch to produce an arbitrary number of chickens in one round. So he walks up to an opponent, and starts pulling to get a chicken. It doesn't provoke an AoO, because it is a free action. Okay, he gets a chicken, now he kills it. He gets a free shot on his opponent thanks to Sweeping Strike from War Mind.

But wait, he killed the chicken, so he gets a Cleave. So he uses free actions to produce another chicken, and kills that with his Cleave attack. And gets a free shot on his opponent thanks to Sweeping Strike.

Infinite damage loop by level 12. Not the most optimized, but certainly the most interesting.

Tacoma
2009-02-05, 08:30 PM
Does Sweeping Strike just act like a second type of Cleave effect? Isn't there a maximum number of times per round or something?

I know Cleave is limited in the times you can do it per round. Great Cleave is a pretty messed up feat - they should have said instead that you can Cleave up to once per point of Dex or something.

It's really their fault for putting in an infinite thing to begin with.

I'm looking at Whirlwind Attack here and it says when you use it you forfeit any other bonus or extra attacks from feats, etc. Does that mean you can't Cleave off a Whirlwind Attack? Seems kind of lame to me.

But if you can Cleave off a Whirlwind, what happens when you're using a flaming weapon in the middle of a cloud of gnats? You'd kill some hundred or so gnats during your whirl and smack down a hundred Cleave hits on the one dude you're adjacent to.

By the way, Cleave says it gives you a free attack if you "drop" an opponent. It says you "typically" do this by reducing them to zero HP or killing them. But it looks like dropping them using Improved Trip is still "dropping" them. Or putting them to sleep.

Does this mean a Wizard who used his hands to cast a Sleep spell and "dropped" six Orcs would be able to use his hands to punch with six extra Cleave attacks on an adjacent Ogre? His hands are "the weapon used to drop the previous creature".

They could have worded this better ...

(Someone will reply trying to tear me up about reading it too literally. Another will proclaim if I tried that in his group he'd kick me out. This is expected (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Satire).)

EDIT: Gramer

arguskos
2009-02-05, 08:42 PM
Does Sweeping Strike just act like a second type of Cleave effect? Isn't there a maximum number of times per round or something?

I know Cleave is limited in the times you can do it per round. Great Cleave is a pretty messed up feat - they should have said instead that you can Cleave up to once per point of Dex or something.

It's really their fault for putting in an infinite thing to begin with.

I'm looking at Whirlwind Attack here and it says when you use it you forfeit any other bonus or extra attacks from feats, etc. Does that mean you can't Cleave off a Whirlwind Attack? Seems kind of lame to me.

But if you can Cleave off a Whirlwind, what happens when you're using a flaming weapon in the middle of a cloud of gnats? You'd kill some hundred or so gnats during your whirl and smack down a hundred Cleave hits on the one dude you're adjacent to.

By the way, Cleave says it gives you a free attack if you "drop" an opponent. It says you "typically" do this by reducing them to zero HP or killing them. But it looks like dropping them using Improved Trip is still "dropping" them. Or putting them to sleep.

Does this mean a Wizard who used his hands to cast a Sleep spell and "dropped" six Orcs would be able to use his hands to punch with six extra Cleave attacks on an adjacent Ogre? His hands are "the weapon used to drop the previous creature".

They could have worded this better ...

(Someone will reply trying to tear me up about reading it too literally. Another will proclaim if I tried that in his group he'd kick me out. This is expected (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Satire).)

EDIT: Gramer
It's as if a million voices cried out... and were suddenly silenced...

Yeah, that's probably not what they intended, though your analysis is amazingly hilarious.
"I whirlwind attack the cloud of gnats."
"Ok, roll your atta- wait, what?"
"I get a 37. Does that hit?"
"Uh... sure?"
"Cool, then I cleave like 1500 times on that badguy, cause I totally just creamed like 1500 gnats."
"..uh....well...it's like this see.... ROCKS FALL!!"

:smallbiggrin:

ShneekeyTheLost
2009-02-05, 09:34 PM
Does Sweeping Strike just act like a second type of Cleave effect? Isn't there a maximum number of times per round or something? No and No. It's in the SRD (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/psionic/prestigeClasses/warMind.htm#sweepingStrike). It specifically states it works in conjunction with Cleave. Whirlwind and Cleave specifically do not stack, however Sweeping Strike works with Cleave. Thus Whirlwind Attack is obsolete and Great Cleave is in!


I know Cleave is limited in the times you can do it per round. Great Cleave is a pretty messed up feat - they should have said instead that you can Cleave up to once per point of Dex or something.

It's really their fault for putting in an infinite thing to begin with. Probably Strength rather than Dex, it is based on Power Attack, after all.


I'm looking at Whirlwind Attack here and it says when you use it you forfeit any other bonus or extra attacks from feats, etc. Does that mean you can't Cleave off a Whirlwind Attack? Seems kind of lame to me.

But if you can Cleave off a Whirlwind, what happens when you're using a flaming weapon in the middle of a cloud of gnats? You'd kill some hundred or so gnats during your whirl and smack down a hundred Cleave hits on the one dude you're adjacent to.

By the way, Cleave says it gives you a free attack if you "drop" an opponent. It says you "typically" do this by reducing them to zero HP or killing them. But it looks like dropping them using Improved Trip is still "dropping" them. Or putting them to sleep.

Does this mean a Wizard who used his hands to cast a Sleep spell and "dropped" six Orcs would be able to use his hands to punch with six extra Cleave attacks on an adjacent Ogre? His hands are "the weapon used to drop the previous creature".

They could have worded this better ...

(Someone will reply trying to tear me up about reading it too literally. Another will proclaim if I tried that in his group he'd kick me out. This is expected (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Satire).)

EDIT: Gramer

Yes, that is specifically why they changed Whirlwind Attack in 3.5 to specifically exclude that sort of cheese.

AngelSword
2009-02-06, 07:18 AM
Actually, this can easily lead into an infinite damage combo:

Commoner1/PsiWar5/WarMind5.

Feats: Power Attack, Cleave, Great Cleave

The Combo:

He has a spell component pouch to produce an arbitrary number of chickens in one round. So he walks up to an opponent, and starts pulling to get a chicken. It doesn't provoke an AoO, because it is a free action. Okay, he gets a chicken, now he kills it. He gets a free shot on his opponent thanks to Sweeping Strike from War Mind.

But wait, he killed the chicken, so he gets a Cleave. So he uses free actions to produce another chicken, and kills that with his Cleave attack. And gets a free shot on his opponent thanks to Sweeping Strike.

Infinite damage loop by level 12. Not the most optimized, but certainly the most interesting.

I wouldn't say that this is interesting. This is really just the "broken" Bag of Hamsters trick, replacing it with something that's better with barbecue sauce.

ShneekeyTheLost
2009-02-06, 11:38 AM
I wouldn't say that this is interesting. This is really just the "broken" Bag of Hamsters trick, replacing it with something that's better with barbecue sauce.

Not quite...

The 'bag of Hamsters/Puppies/Rats" trick is limited to the number of critters in your bag. The chicken-infested variation has an unlimited number of squishy targets, making it a true infinite damage loop as opposed to simply an extremely large number of attacks.

AngelSword
2009-02-06, 12:29 PM
Not quite...

The 'bag of Hamsters/Puppies/Rats" trick is limited to the number of critters in your bag. The chicken-infested variation has an unlimited number of squishy targets, making it a true infinite damage loop as opposed to simply an extremely large number of attacks.

So, in other words, this is the even cheesier version that any DM would be absolutely mad to allow.

ShneekeyTheLost
2009-02-06, 12:46 PM
So, in other words, this is the even cheesier version that any DM would be absolutely mad to allow.

Precisely!

It's an infinite loop. Like PunPun, The Hulking Hurler, The King of Smack, the Omnisifier, and more... this is not supposed to actually be put into a serious game, it's a joke which exploits the mechanics of the game.

Besides, can ANYTHING that has a 50% chance of drawing a chicken instead of whatever you were trying to accomplish NOT be a joke?

Lyndworm
2009-02-06, 08:38 PM
Thanks for all the replies, guys. I appreciate the information. I was talking to a friend about all the horrible tings that could be done, but couldn't remember much in detail.

MeklorIlavator
2009-02-06, 10:20 PM
Just pointing out something that seems to have fallen by the wayside:
The flaw in question was printed in the April Fools Edition of Dragon Magazine in a section of commoner only flaws including ones that made you have to carry a pig at all times, or a Balor would come and kill you. In return for a feat. This isn't even like pun-pun, as it is inherently a joke build from the moment you consider using it. It would be like complaining that the Magic cards from the Unglued/hinged sets are wierd. DUH! That's the point.

AngelSword
2009-02-07, 12:52 AM
It would be like complaining that the Magic cards from the Unglued/hinged sets are wierd. DUH! That's the point.

The difference? Unglued and Unhinged cards have a silver border around them, immediately and obviously denoting their joke status.

MeklorIlavator
2009-02-07, 01:33 AM
The difference? Unglued and Unhinged cards have a silver border around them, immediately and obviously denoting their joke status.

And these feats come from a Joke Article. Plus, they are completely outrageous from a game perspective as well(something that is not always the case with unglued cards).

Cubey
2009-02-07, 01:49 AM
The difference? Unglued and Unhinged cards have a silver border around them, immediately and obviously denoting their joke status.

Do you really need an obvious marking to denote that things like Chicken Infested are a joke? Is it not obvious?

AngelSword
2009-02-07, 02:02 AM
Was the article mentioned at any time before my post as being a joke? Even if given that it was a joke, there is such a thing as taking a joke too far. Seeing that people have actually put thought into "builds" around the joke presents (to me, at least) evidence that it crossed that line.

chiasaur11
2009-02-07, 02:06 AM
Does Sweeping Strike just act like a second type of Cleave effect? Isn't there a maximum number of times per round or something?

I know Cleave is limited in the times you can do it per round. Great Cleave is a pretty messed up feat - they should have said instead that you can Cleave up to once per point of Dex or something.

It's really their fault for putting in an infinite thing to begin with.

I'm looking at Whirlwind Attack here and it says when you use it you forfeit any other bonus or extra attacks from feats, etc. Does that mean you can't Cleave off a Whirlwind Attack? Seems kind of lame to me.

But if you can Cleave off a Whirlwind, what happens when you're using a flaming weapon in the middle of a cloud of gnats? You'd kill some hundred or so gnats during your whirl and smack down a hundred Cleave hits on the one dude you're adjacent to.

By the way, Cleave says it gives you a free attack if you "drop" an opponent. It says you "typically" do this by reducing them to zero HP or killing them. But it looks like dropping them using Improved Trip is still "dropping" them. Or putting them to sleep.

Does this mean a Wizard who used his hands to cast a Sleep spell and "dropped" six Orcs would be able to use his hands to punch with six extra Cleave attacks on an adjacent Ogre? His hands are "the weapon used to drop the previous creature".

They could have worded this better ...

(Someone will reply trying to tear me up about reading it too literally. Another will proclaim if I tried that in his group he'd kick me out. This is expected (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Satire).)

EDIT: Gramer
Yo're reading it too literally.

If you tried that at my table you'd be kicked out.

Am I doing it right, or does it need exclamation marks?

Cubey
2009-02-07, 02:25 AM
Was the article mentioned at any time before my post as being a joke?
1st April. Isn't it obvious? Wouldn't it be obvious even if it wasn't printed on April Fool's Day? Does each joke, humorous footnote and thing not to be taken seriously have to be labelled as such, for fear of people not getting it? I have more hopes in humanity than that.


Even if given that it was a joke, there is such a thing as taking a joke too far. Seeing that people have actually put thought into "builds" around the joke presents (to me, at least) evidence that it crossed that line.
You're in the minority here.

I hate to explain the joke, but it seems I have to do it: such builds are funny BECAUSE they work mechanically, according to RAW. Common sense not much, but Rules As Written indeed. Creating a homebrew class with a feature to Become A God at 1st level is lame and not funny. Creating a build that lets you Become A God at 1st level (if you're a kobold) and WORKS within the RAW, even if no sane DM would allow you to pull that off, is hilarious.

BobVosh
2009-02-07, 02:58 AM
Does Sweeping Strike just act like a second type of Cleave effect? Isn't there a maximum number of times per round or something?

I know Cleave is limited in the times you can do it per round. Great Cleave is a pretty messed up feat - they should have said instead that you can Cleave up to once per point of Dex or something.

It's really their fault for putting in an infinite thing to begin with.

I'm looking at Whirlwind Attack here and it says when you use it you forfeit any other bonus or extra attacks from feats, etc. Does that mean you can't Cleave off a Whirlwind Attack? Seems kind of lame to me.

But if you can Cleave off a Whirlwind, what happens when you're using a flaming weapon in the middle of a cloud of gnats? You'd kill some hundred or so gnats during your whirl and smack down a hundred Cleave hits on the one dude you're adjacent to.

By the way, Cleave says it gives you a free attack if you "drop" an opponent. It says you "typically" do this by reducing them to zero HP or killing them. But it looks like dropping them using Improved Trip is still "dropping" them. Or putting them to sleep.

Does this mean a Wizard who used his hands to cast a Sleep spell and "dropped" six Orcs would be able to use his hands to punch with six extra Cleave attacks on an adjacent Ogre? His hands are "the weapon used to drop the previous creature".

They could have worded this better ...

(Someone will reply trying to tear me up about reading it too literally. Another will proclaim if I tried that in his group he'd kick me out. This is expected (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Satire).)

EDIT: Gramer

Except a cloud of gnats would count as a swarm and you wouldn't kill the swarm with one hit if there were 1500 of them.

AngelSword
2009-02-07, 09:51 AM
1st April. Isn't it obvious? Wouldn't it be obvious even if it wasn't printed on April Fool's Day? Does each joke, humorous footnote and thing not to be taken seriously have to be labelled as such, for fear of people not getting it? I have more hopes in humanity than that.

Given its similarity to something actually attempted, and that nowhere in this thread was the date of the article mentioned, I wouldn't call it obvious.


You're in the minority here.

I hate to explain the joke, but it seems I have to do it: such builds are funny BECAUSE they work mechanically, according to RAW. Common sense not much, but Rules As Written indeed. Creating a homebrew class with a feature to Become A God at 1st level is lame and not funny. Creating a build that lets you Become A God at 1st level (if you're a kobold) and WORKS within the RAW, even if no sane DM would allow you to pull that off, is hilarious.

And now that you've explained the "joke," that means that it wasn't told correctly, because if it was, no explanation would be needed.

Aquillion
2009-02-07, 10:26 AM
The difference? Unglued and Unhinged cards have a silver border around them, immediately and obviously denoting their joke status.It is worth pointing out that my post quoted above going into detail on it (although other people had noted the odd things you could do with the flaw earlier) is from this (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=80968) thread; the context is important.

It's a strategy that ends with "and then I full the entire universe with chickens!" I think you should be able to read that and know what it means.

And what it means is that commoners are completely awesome. Don't believe what everyone else here is saying; I am deadly serious. Because they can take this flaw (and for other reasons, but partially because of this flaw) Commoners make Wizards look as weak as Soulknives. The relevant power comparison is something like Commoner >> Wizard.

Seriously. While the wizard is busy casting spells you bury not only them but everyone they care about in chickens -- clucking, pecking, angry and confused chickens. Does the wizard have a spell to deal with chickens? Well... yes, actually, probably several. But you can just respond by sending in more chickens. The Cleric with a Persistent Greater Consumptive Field might seem like a problem, since each chicken will only make them stronger... but we have another trick up our sleeves.

Optimally, our build should be a Warforged Commoner. Create chickens until the spellcasters have no more room to breathe, speak, or move (note that they cannot even Plane Shift to escape, as it has a focus component that they can't use while immobilized. Still silent teleportation doesn't help, as there is no free space to teleport to.) With them immobilized in this fashion, wait for them to suffocate or, if they don't need to breathe either, wait for them to die of old age, then wait for your (also dead) chickens to decompose to the point where you can move again. Congratulations, you win. Note that just about anything else in the universe that needs to breathe and/or has an age limit is also likely to be dead, so that's an added bonus. This means we can now go around and collect their stuff. Some method of going to other planes would be a good idea, too (although we can probably find such a method by looting, after suffocating everyone else via chickens); that way we'll have some place to sell all our loot and, once we're done with that, we can suffocate those planes, too, not to mention going after any spellcasters that used planar travel to escape themselves.

MartinHarper
2009-02-07, 12:02 PM
Such builds are funny BECAUSE they work mechanically, according to RAW.

From the rules, as written:

there may be limits to the number of free actions you can perform in a turn.

MeklorIlavator
2009-02-07, 01:38 PM
And now that you've explained the "joke," that means that it wasn't told correctly, because if it was, no explanation would be needed.

And if someone doesn't get any joke, no matter how obvious, then they simply lack a sense of humor or are being deliberately obtuse.

Nerd-o-rama
2009-02-07, 03:09 PM
And now that you've explained the "joke," that means that it wasn't told correctly, because if it was, no explanation would be needed.Wouldn't deliberately marking something as a joke be the exact same thing, like your beloved silver-bordered Magic cards?

Also, I thought the Bag of Hamsters Great Cleave cheese was also a joke.

ShneekeyTheLost
2009-02-07, 07:11 PM
Wouldn't deliberately marking something as a joke be the exact same thing, like your beloved silver-bordered Magic cards?

Also, I thought the Bag of Hamsters Great Cleave cheese was also a joke.

No, the Bag of Hamsters/Great Cleave/Sweeping Strike thing was originally devised as a bag of Puppies. The theory was that any PC who tried to use this combo was so utterly evil that he enjoyed kicking puppies, so he used puppies instead, but any tiny creature works well for these purposes. It's Munchkinism just shy of Hulking Hurler because it doesn't actually involve infinite loops, and is almost never allowed into a game for the same reason Pun-Pun is never allowed into a game, however you effectively get as many 'free' attacks as you have small helpless animals to splat.

Teron
2009-02-07, 07:47 PM
No, the Bag of Hamsters/Great Cleave/Sweeping Strike thing was originally devised as a bag of Puppies. The theory was that any PC who tried to use this combo was so utterly evil that he enjoyed kicking puppies, so he used puppies instead, but any tiny creature works well for these purposes. It's Munchkinism just shy of Hulking Hurler because it doesn't actually involve infinite loops, and is almost never allowed into a game for the same reason Pun-Pun is never allowed into a game, however you effectively get as many 'free' attacks as you have small helpless animals to splat.
Thanks for that visual. By default, I picture Cleave and therefore the bag-of-rats trick being performed with continuous swipes from a slashing weapon, but it's much funnier as a six-second frenzy of blurringly fast puppy-clubbing. :smallamused:

The Glyphstone
2009-02-07, 08:25 PM
On the other hand, you can fit many more hamsters in a bag than puppies. Roughly 2000 of them, if you use a Type IV Bag and assume the volume of a hamster to be 6 cubic inches.

Nerd-o-rama
2009-02-08, 10:29 PM
No, the Bag of Hamsters/Great Cleave/Sweeping Strike thing was originally devised as a bag of Puppies. The theory was that any PC who tried to use this combo was so utterly evil that he enjoyed kicking puppies, so he used puppies instead, but any tiny creature works well for these purposes. It's Munchkinism just shy of Hulking Hurler because it doesn't actually involve infinite loops, and is almost never allowed into a game for the same reason Pun-Pun is never allowed into a game, however you effectively get as many 'free' attacks as you have small helpless animals to splat.Yes. This sounds perfectly like a joke to me. It's a joke that's funny because it works in the so-called rules as written, but still a joke.

theMycon
2009-02-08, 11:47 PM
Huh...

First thing I thought of when I heard this was "chicken grapeshot". Or, more specifcally, Bard W/leadership & dragonfire inspiration, with another bard cohort for actual Inspire Courage (or some equivalent) and a horde of Chicken-infested Commoners as followers. Maybe the feat to change DI into a more useful energy form.

They all try to draw a crossbow bolt/sling bullet. If they're successful, and have a ranged weapon, shoot as normal. However, if they happen to pull a chicken, they step forward & throw the 12d6+chicken damaging bird to clear a small area. Given the sheet number of them, it's likely several hundred d6 damage to whatever's too close, and they produce cover in the form of a huge cloud of feathers as, even if the chicken doesn't explode from use as a heavily magicked weapon, they can attack him with the next chicken.

If there were some way to make the chickens actually explode, so they could just aim foir the square instead of the person, it'd be perfect.

RebelRogue
2009-02-09, 12:07 AM
Just pointing out something that seems to have fallen by the wayside:
The flaw in question was printed in the April Fools Edition of Dragon Magazine in a section of commoner only flaws including ones that made you have to carry a pig at all times, or a Balor would come and kill you. In return for a feat. This isn't even like pun-pun, as it is inherently a joke build from the moment you consider using it. It would be like complaining that the Magic cards from the Unglued/hinged sets are wierd. DUH! That's the point.
Not a balor! Orcus himself is summoned to skin you (which according to the article "probably kills you" :smallbiggrin: ). Another favorite from the bunch of flaws is "Corpse", though that's hard to do any builds with :smallwink:

Teron
2009-02-09, 03:02 AM
Not a balor! Orcus himself is summoned to skin you (which according to the article "probably kills you" :smallbiggrin: ). Another favorite from the bunch of flaws is "Corpse", though that's hard to do any builds with :smallwink:
Even better, the pig turns into Orcus for some inexplicable reason. I love the "rocks fall" absurdity of it, as well as the peasant hat flaw which, besides hurting your social capabilities, declares that your brain is exposed under the hat and crows will flock out of nowhere to eat it if you ever remove the hat.

Sebastian
2009-02-09, 04:38 AM
Tippyverse. And if it's not unbalanced to draw a chicken, why not create a feat that lets you draw a lump of coal instead? Suddenly the world has no problems with heating or fuel for forges and such. A feat to draw a scrap of iron? Whoops, now metal is basically valueless.


This assume that just because a feat exist it is freely availlable to everyone, this is and should not be always the case. It is the DM prerogative to say who can and cannot pick a certain feat.

chicken aside, if you think about it a component pouch is one of the most powerful magic items in the world.

it contain illimted amount of infinite different items, that you can pull out in an instant;

it is totally everything-proof, you can swim in a river or be dipped in acid or hit by a fireball but all the components inside are unharmed and perfectly usable;

it allow you to pick out the item you want istantaneously, no matter what is your situation if in combat or blind or in complete darkness, or underwater, of freefalling to name some you can always pick out the item you search.

And this just on the top of my head.

Aquillion
2009-02-09, 04:51 AM
it is totally everything-proof, you can swim in a river or be dipped in acid or hit by a fireball but all the components inside are unharmed and perfectly usableIt isn't, actually. It takes damage like any other item (although wise spellcasters will generally carry more than one, just in case, since they're so inexpensive.)

Sebastian
2009-02-09, 10:16 AM
It isn't, actually. It takes damage like any other item (although wise spellcasters will generally carry more than one, just in case, since they're so inexpensive.)

I didn't say indestructible, I said anythin-proof, it can be submerged in water or it by a fireball (as long as is not unattended) without the component in it being spoiled or ruined in any way.

Lycanthromancer
2009-02-09, 01:12 PM
I didn't say indestructible, I said anythin-proof, it can be submerged in water or it by a fireball (as long as is not unattended) without the component in it being spoiled or ruined in any way.

It can still get damaged if you roll a natural 1 on a Reflex save. Or, as was mentioned, sundered.

Armor, however, is immune to sundering.