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ZerglingOne
2009-02-06, 08:01 AM
On hir ranged touch attack. We're assuming V is at least of what...15th level? That would mean that s/he has a +7 to attack rolls from BAB alone. I'm assuming s/he is exhausted which would confer a -6 to dex, but V may have as much as 16 dex, though this has never been demonstrated or proven in any way. All things considered, it should have been relatively easy for V to hit the ancient black dragon (Touch AC 8) but s/he failed and/or the Deus ex Machinae decided to intervene.

Kurald Galain
2009-02-06, 08:15 AM
The assumption that V has a high dex does not appear to be based on any in-comic event.

At any rate, there's a range penalty, and a number of spells exist that a sorcerer dragon could have used to boost her AC.

Greg
2009-02-06, 08:19 AM
On hir ranged touch attack. We're assuming V is at least of what...15th level? That would mean that s/he has a +7 to attack rolls from BAB alone. I'm assuming s/he is exhausted which would confer a -6 to dex, but V may have as much as 16 dex, though this has never been demonstrated or proven in any way. All things considered, it should have been relatively easy for V to hit the ancient black dragon (Touch AC 8) but s/he failed and/or the Deus ex Machinae decided to intervene.
Doesn't range affect rolls? V probably doesn't have 16 dex, and probably isn't level 15 either.

Tempest Fennac
2009-02-06, 08:36 AM
Spells have a maximum range, but I'm not sure how it affects accuracy over distances. Regarding V's Dex, Rich commented that s/he didn't have any real bonus to ranged attacks during the 2nd Miko battle, so I'd assume V's Dex was only 12 or 13 at the most.

Sholos
2009-02-06, 10:59 AM
Which means that if he is indeed exhausted, he'd have a penalty to anything ranged. But the possibility of V getting a 1 isn't exactly some out-of-the-park thing.

GSFB
2009-02-07, 12:37 AM
The dragon is flying away, not fighting, and thus can receive a bonus to AC for taking a defensive action.

Defensive move, range, exhaustion, possible dex bonus for the dragon (no one said all dragons have Dex of 10...), possible feats for the dragon, possible circumstance modifiers for shock or mental state... it could easily add up to V needing to roll a 20 in order to hit.

ZerglingOne
2009-02-07, 02:28 AM
Doesn't range affect rolls? V probably doesn't have 16 dex, and probably isn't level 15 either.

Disintegrate is a level 8 spell that casters only 15th level or higher can cast. Though I agree that there is no indication of V having that high of dex. If my calculations are correct the dragon had only flown 150 feet, and V has a range of at least 250 feet with Dimensional Anchor. There is nothing that says in the description of a ray attack that there are range increments. I checked the PHB 3.5. So V definitely rolled low.

Heads_or_Tails
2009-02-07, 03:28 AM
Disintegrate is a level 8 spell that casters only 15th level or higher can cast.

Disintegrate is a level 6 spell, the highest level spells V is known to know are Prismatic Spray, and Power Word: Blind, both level 7. Current estimate (in Class and Level Geekery IV) puts V at level 14. They also have some justification for V's dexterity score.

Nightson
2009-02-07, 03:44 AM
Exhausted gives -6 to dex, so V might have been looking at something like a +4-5 to hit (+7 bab, -2 to 3 dex) on a base touch AC of 8, give that +4 AC from total defense, and V missing isn't that surprising, and that's not taking into effect any special buffs the dragon might have had. And even if he had hit, he'd have to overcome the Dragon's SR.

Yehomer
2009-02-07, 12:29 PM
Disintegrate is a level 6 spell, the highest level spells V is known to know are Prismatic Spray, and Power Word: Blind, both level 7. Current estimate (in Class and Level Geekery IV) puts V at level 14. They also have some justification for V's dexterity score.

Also, forcecage is 7th level.

Andraste
2009-02-07, 01:57 PM
Also, forcecage is 7th level.

Which makes V at least level 16, to know 3 7th level spells.

Kroy
2009-02-07, 02:01 PM
For this, let's use C&LG for stats. Here's V:

:vaarsuvius:Vaarsuvius
Non-evil (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/../comics/oots0011.html) alignment, Elven (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0030.html) Ambiguously Gendered Wizard (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/../comics/oots0009.html) 14 (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0627.html)
Attributes (12 pt buy min):
Str ≤9 ("I have a Strength penalty (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/../comics/oots0245.html)")
Dex 10-11 (“no real attack bonus” on rays)
Con ≤12 (consistent with Giant's description of Miko fight)
Int 23, 19 unmodified (based on spells cast and limits thereof (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0627.html))
Wis 10-12 (“moderate wisdom”)
Cha 6-9 (can return as a ghost (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0163.html) with “poor charisma”)
Feats (9): AlertnessB (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/../comics/oots0003.html), Empowered Spell (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0588.html), Martial Weapon ProficiencyB (composite longbow, composite shortbow, longbow, longsword, rapier, shortbow and shortsword), Maximized Spell, Quickened Spell (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0588.html), Scribe ScrollB... Not Silent Spell or Still Spell (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/../comics/oots0161.html)
Skills (97): Concentrate (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/../comics/oots0041.html)≤15, Craft (Alchemy), Knowledge (Arcane), Listen (+2), Ride 0 (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/../comics/oots0141.html), Spot (+2), Search 0 (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/../comics/oots0030.html) (+2), Speak language (elven), Spellcraft...
Abilities: +2 v enchantment, Barred school (Conjuration (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/../comics/oots0340.html) and Necromancy), Specialized school (Evocation), Favored class (wizard), Immune to sleep, Low-light vision, Summon familiar (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/../comics/oots0003.html)
Items: Headband of Intellect +4 (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0627.html) (based on Intelligence calculations), Ring of Wizardry (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/../comics/oots0130.html) (probably affects level 3 spells (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/../comics/oots0323.html)), raven familiar (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/../comics/oots0003.html), robes (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/../comics/oots0186.html), many (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0173.html) spellbooks, ink, paper (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/../comics/oots0306.html), two small gemstones (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/../comics/oots0123.html), some item that increases Intelligence by at least 4, Finding Plot Holes for Dummies (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0623.html), nine books of unknown title (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0623.html). no potions or scrolls (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0452.html)...
Spells (per day -- 4+1 6+1 6+1 5+1 5+1 4+1 4+1 2+1): Banishment (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0585.html), Bugsby's Grasping Hand (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0624.html), Bull's Strength (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/../comics/oots0104.html), Chain Lightning (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/../comics/oots0106.html), Charm Monster (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/../comics/oots0335.html), Cone of Cold (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/../comics/oots0041.html), Crushing Despair (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/../comics/oots0127.html), Detect Magic (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/../comics/oots0116.html), Dimensional Anchor (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0624.html), Disintegrate (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/../comics/oots0186.html), Dispel Magic (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/../comics/oots0049.html), Evan's Spiked Tentacles of Forced Intrusion (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/../comics/oots0020.html), Expeditious Retreat (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/../comics/oots0005.html), Explosive Runes (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/../comics/oots0092.html), Feather Fall (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/../comics/oots0240.html), Fireball (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/../comics/oots0020.html), Fire Trap (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/../comics/oots0323.html), Forcecage (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0627.html), Fly (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0507.html), Grasping Hand (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/../comics/oots0397.html), Gust of Wind (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0595.html), Haste (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/../comics/oots0049.html), Hold Person (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/../comics/oots0200.html), Hold Portal (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/../comics/oots0178.html), Identify (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/../comics/oots0009.html), Invisibility (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/../comics/oots0157.html), discount Invisibility Sphere (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/../comics/oots0088.html), Lightning Bolt (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/../comics/oots0020.html), Magic Missile (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/../comics/oots0065.html), Mass Bear's Endurance (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/../comics/oots0427.html). Mass Bull's Strength (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/../comics/oots0427.html), Mass Enlarge Person (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/../comics/oots0427.html), Owl's Wisdom (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/../comics/oots0058.html), Power Word Blind (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/../comics/oots0306.html), Prestidigitation (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/../comics/oots0323.html), Prismatic Spray (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0591.html), Protection From Arrows (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/../comics/oots0240.html), Scorching Ray (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/../comics/oots0065.html), See Invisibility (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0624.html), Sleep (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/../comics/oots0065.html), Suggestion (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/../comics/oots0178.html), Vaarsuvius' Enhanced Scrying (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0504.html), Vaarsuvius' Greater Animal Messenger (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0563.html), Vampiric Touch (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/../comics/oots0049.html), Veil (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0584.html)...
Now, with a -6 to dex, that would put it at 4, or -3. 7+(-3)= +4. An ancient black dragon has an AC of 38, touch 8, flat-footed 38. So, a 3 or less is needed.

Which makes V at least level 16, to know 3 7th level spells.
Edit:
Do you mean know or be able to cast? Because if it were the latter of the two, then it could be explained by h** 23 int.

Optimystik
2009-02-07, 02:03 PM
I actually think he DID roll a one - that would create a rather cruel pun with the strip's title.

VampireRot
2009-02-07, 02:32 PM
The rules of drama gave V a -20 to hit. Hitting the dragon and keeping her from teleporting would be rather silly after she explained her whole plan. Her escape allows a much more dramatic rescue by V (with a trip to the dark side with Quarr possibly). OotS isn't a tabletop game, it's a story that takes place in a tabletop game.

Optimystik
2009-02-07, 02:41 PM
OotS isn't a tabletop game, it's a story that takes place in a tabletop game.

Right, which is why the work becomes that much more beautiful and appreciable when the story unfolds in ways that follow the rules of said tabletop game.

Nothing illustrates this more than Haley's highly dramatic shots against the Linear Guild (#59) and Redcloak (#454).

Ted_Stryker
2009-02-07, 02:42 PM
Which makes V at least level 16, to know 3 7th level spells.
Caster level doesn't regulate how many spells a Wizard knows at each spell level like it does for a Sorcerer. If you're taking that number from the Spells Per Day table for Wizards, that doesn't apply to spells known at any given spell level.

GSFB
2009-02-07, 04:27 PM
V also gets a bonus evocation spell.

Pookong
2009-02-09, 02:34 AM
and V has probably very very high intelligence, so hse could easily be only 13th level, if hse has intelligence 24-25...
hse would have 3 spells of the 6th level (Disintegration), 2 spells of the 7th level (Prismatic Spray, Forcecage) and one extra evocation spell (Disintegrate)...

Aharon
2009-02-09, 03:45 AM
hm... my first post here :smallsmile:

You're forgetting the dragons frightful presence; its save DC is 28, and it's entirely reasonable that V didn't make it:
Shaken
A shaken character takes a -2 penalty on attack rolls, saving throws, skill checks, and ability checks.

So we're looking at
BAB +7+0(Dex)-3(exhausted)-2(shaken)=2
Dragon Touch AC: 8. That would mean she has a 25% chance of missing, which makes the events in the strip totally reasonable.

multilis
2009-02-09, 03:54 AM
The dragon stresses V's bad aim... likely V is suffering something worse than regular exhaustion from lack of sleep for *many* days, and the miss was >50% chance rather than 25% chance as result.

Underground
2009-02-09, 04:00 AM
V is extremely exhausted and tired, thats why all the disintegrate spells missed before, and thats why the anchor spell missed as well.

King of Nowhere
2009-02-09, 07:53 AM
In fact, I'm surprised the dimensional ancor against Quarr did hit...

Aharon
2009-02-10, 09:19 AM
@mutilis
the dragon is not exactly uncruel. Even if she had hit and not bypassed his SR, it would probably have gloated some way... We're talking about someon who wants to take revenge on children.

@King of Nowere
S/he wasn't shaken then, so her BAB was 4. Imps have a Touch AC of 15, giving her a 45% chance of hitting. S/he was just unlucky that so many of her/his Disintegrates didn't hit.

Spiky
2009-02-10, 09:42 AM
I think the dragon's comment was pretty clearly Rich's latest shot at V for being overly exhausted. Perhaps V will take that to heart, finally.

Rotipher
2009-02-10, 06:36 PM
Erk! If V'd quit trancing because ve couldn't otherwise escape the memory of those soldiers dying -- a tragedy that was neither personal, nor a direct result of vir own actions -- then how's V ever going to trance peacefully again, if Mama Dragon kills those kids? Poor V may wind up reliving the past few issues' confrontation, word-for-word, every night, for the rest of vir life! :eek: