Those kids look a little...dark

[TheSaylesMan]

This may have already been addressed, but what is up with V's kids? They have a skin tone that does not match either of their parents. Either there is some quirk about Elven physiology I am unaware of to explain this or one of the kids' parents is not really a parent.

Could be a step parent I suppose. I'm thinking its going to be a case of adultery though. I really think V's going to turn evil and its going to take something extreme to bring that about.

[TheSummoner]

Or it could be from an unseen and possibly deceased grandparent...

[Porthos]

Could be a step parent I suppose. I'm thinking its going to be a case of adultery though.

Pssst. There is such a thing as adoption you know. :smallwink:

[TheSaylesMan]

Huh. Right. Grandparent. Didn't think of that. I forgot that was even possible. I will be confused if this isn't explained in the comic though. Or I'll just disregard it as unimportant.

[Sergeantbrother]

Maybe elven children are dark when they are young and get lighter with age. Its possible, just because humans tend to stay pretty much the same color doesn't mean elves do.

[Saint Nil]

He probably did it just to confuse us more.:smallamused:

[Oxymoron]

In 4th edition, elves (not counting drow) can have any range of skincolor. This was done to appeal more to the nonwhite-population I think.

[Fitzclowningham]

Or it could be from an unseen and possibly deceased grandparent...

I suppose the "deceased" part is possible, but I'm guessing most elves get to know their great-great-great-great-great grandparents.

[The Minx]

Possibilities:
They are the children of both V and his/her mate, elven genetics works such that they could produce different colored kids than themselves.
As above, only Elves can change color as they mature.
They are the biological children of one of the two parents, from an earlier relationship.
They are adopted.
They go to a tanning salon.
They are studying magic too (while in kindergarten), and enjoy tooling around with Disguise Self.
They fell into a vat of chocolate. This is elven chocolate and it doesn't wash out immediately.
They are this way due to some other reason.
It's not the kids that changed color, its the adults (some reasons might include the above).
:smallsmile:


He probably did it just to confuse us more.:smallamused:

Probably. :smallbiggrin:

[Erloas]

Well just out of curiousity I checked in Origins and V says (s)he has been studing magic for 6 decades. Of course the children are 26, so that means V was dedicated to magic long before the kids were made, which would do something to support the gay/lesbian adopted children, or the children being from someone else.

Re-reading the last two comics it also seems V doesn't end up saying to much about it one way or the other. I checked back on some of the earlier comics and V never mentions having children, just that (s)he is married.

Is it possible that V doesn't even know about her/his children? Is it possible V left earlier then that and V's mate adopted the kids (or had them with someone else) and V never even knew about it? V's mate would have told them that V left and things about V even if V left before they were old enough to remember, or if V was never involved in their coming into existance.

With how quickly things happened with the dragon and the fact that the dragon gave V very little chance to say much, its very possible that V's reactions were more instinctual and V may not have put all the pieces together that there were children with V's mate. Since it would also pretty much be guarenteed that V's mate will be killed at the same time as the children.

As for the color... its also possible that the children were the result of some usual magic experiements rather then being made the old fashioned way. I'm sure there would be some use for researching some sort of artifical impregnating spells, which could very well lead to children not looking like their parents.

[mikeejimbo]

Or maybe they're not dark-skinned, just dirty. That's why their Parent told them to go wash up for lunch.

[TheSummoner]

Just because V was studying magic for longer than the children were alive doesn't mean they're adopted *rolls eyes*

Concieving a child takes what? 15-20 minutes MAXIMUM. Also, since both are 26, its possible they're non-identical twins.

[mikeejimbo]

Concieving a child takes what? 15-20 minutes MAXIMUM. Also, since both are 26, its possible they're non-identical twins.

Well, for humans perhaps. I don't know how long it takes for elves.

[TheSummoner]

I would immagine if the difference between conception times was too great, half-breeds would be impossible... or atleast very unlikely...

[Weiser_Cain]

Clearly skin tone is linked to how much sleep one gets. It's no big deal.

[Carnivorous_Bea]

From V's reaction of horror when the dragon says, "I'm going to kill your children," he definitely knows about them. I don't have any kids yet, and if someone said they were going to kill my children, I'd probably just raise an eyebrow at them.

The skin tones are little surprising, too, but look at how various the hair colors are. I'm guessing that elf genetics are just a bit more chaotic -- and literally colorful -- than human ones are, and you can get any combination of skin and hair colors out of any two elves.

[cobaltstarfire]

You know, the kids don't need to be the exact same skin tone as the parents, there could just as well be genetic markers in there from a darker ancestor that has cropped back up and expressed itself in those two children.

It's happened in the real world, there's been cases of twins where one is much darker than the other, even when both parents and the family for several generations is rather light skinned.

Of course they could just as easily be adopted, or elves have some weird thing about them.

[Flickerdart]

Roy has some explaining to do, is all. We all know how his luck with women goes.

[GSFB]

Kids play out in the sun while grown-ups are busy crawling around in dark caves all day.

I'm not reading much into this.

[Scarlet Knight]

Roy has some explaining to do, is all. We all know how his luck with women goes.

No , Roy's off the hook because he's 29 and the kids are 26. Eugene , however....

[Corwin Weber]

Just because V was studying magic for longer than the children were alive doesn't mean they're adopted *rolls eyes*

Concieving a child takes what? 15-20 minutes MAXIMUM. Also, since both are 26, its possible they're non-identical twins.

Pfft.

Speak for yourself.

:biggrin:

[Lord_Drayakir]

I would immagine if the difference between conception times was too great, half-breeds would be impossible... or atleast very unlikely...

I dunno about that. If an elves need a long time in order to conceive, so let's just guess: 1 hour, and humans need 15-20 minutes (although this is debatable), then an elven male and a human female will have all the necessary incentive to make half-elves... if you know what I mean.

[Optimystik]

Maybe elven children are dark when they are young and get lighter with age. Its possible, just because humans tend to stay pretty much the same color doesn't mean elves do.

Not true: V at age 19 in OtOoPCs has the exact same complexion as he did when he joined the Order.


No , Roy's off the hook because he's 29 and the kids are 26. Eugene , however....

Urf.
I just threw up in my mouth a little...

Anyway, tan elves DO exist (wild elves) so we don't need to toss any exceptionally sordid theories about. I'm favoring adoption myself.

EDIT: The children's hair also matches wild elves.

[Iranon]

I think it was mentioned somewhere that V's parents were rangers... a wild elf or something more unusual (wood nymph?) in the family tree doesn't sound too far off.

[Aron Times]

I guess elves have certain dominant or recessive genes.

I mean, look at our president. He's half-white, and if we weren't told about it, we would never have suspected it. The only hint to his biracial heritage is his skin color, which is about halfway between his parents'.

Also, my father had dark skin while my mother has fair skin. I had dark skin at birth that slowly whitened as I grew up (my current skin color is closer to my mother's than my father's).

What I think is more likely is that the Giant is deliberately messing with us by not having the children match either parent's skin color. He knows that it would drive us crazy, so he did it.

[nimby]

Simple explanation:


There are 2 elves named Vaarsuvius' that both live in red shuttered tan cottage in Ivyleaf that have a mate and 2 kids. The dragon just happened to be scrying on the wrong one's family.

[AkodoKoji]

Has it been mentioned that 4th edition elves are dark skinned. Just like Haley's Daddy was a first (or was it 2nd) edition thief it seems V's children are 4th Edition Elves.

[Optimystik]

Simple explanation:


There are 2 elves named Vaarsuvius' that both live in red shuttered tan cottage in Ivyleaf that have a mate and 2 kids. The dragon just happened to be scrying on the wrong one's family.

So there's TWO elves named Vaarsuvius that left their families behind to achieve mastery of magic? And they both live in tan cottages with red shutters in the village of Ivyleaf? :smallamused:

[AkodoKoji]

So there's TWO elves named Vaarsuvius that left their families behind to achieve mastery of magic? And they both live in tan cottages with red shutters in the village of Ivyleaf? :smallamused:

Maybe Vaaruvius is the Elven equivalent of John and that style house is their white house with a picket fence. Leaving their families to master magic is already probably an elven stereotype anyway.

[Zeful]

Well just out of curiousity I checked in Origins and V says (s)he has been studing magic for 6 decades. Of course the children are 26, so that means V was dedicated to magic long before the kids were made, which would do something to support the gay/lesbian adopted children, or the children being from someone else.
Why? V could have started learning magic because of an infertility issue (if they are the same sex, or even of different sex). Alter Self (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/alterSelf.htm) is only a 2nd level spell and lasts long enough to conceive a child (assuming two women). Heck V could have developed a 1st level spell that allows one to switch genders until the spell is dismissed (Duration: Instantaneous (D)) so that the child's conception, development and delivery would be successful.

[Desouulm]

Kids play out in the sun while grown-ups are busy crawling around in dark caves all day.

I'm not reading much into this.

I like this reason the best.

V: 60 years in a tower being a full-time student.

Kids: 26 years of being kids, doing kids stuff, most likely outside because video games don't exist yet.

Other Parent: probably still trying to dispose of a 10-year supply of dirty diapers.

[Hectonkhyres]

I would immagine if the difference between conception times was too great, half-breeds would be impossible... or atleast very unlikely...
Or very, very in demand with the ladies. When you have to have a hearty stock of food and water next to the bed in order to safely attempt to concieve a child.... whoooboy. You know that is going to be a night (and a day and another night) you are going to remember.

[Prak]

Kids play out in the sun while grown-ups are busy crawling around in dark caves all day.

I'm not reading much into this.

Yeah, I'm not reading to much into this either, but more because it wouldn't be the first time The Giant did something because he wanted to and tossed logic out the window. It would just be the first time he did it with biology, to my knowledge.

[Zeful]

Yeah, I'm not reading to much into this either, but more because it wouldn't be the first time The Giant did something because he wanted to and tossed logic out the window. It would just be the first time he did it with biology, to my knowledge.

It's a fantasy race, our laws of biology don't automatically apply to them.

[Prak]

That's a cop out and bad story telling, If a story teller wants to refute natural laws in his world he needs to say what is going on. Even if he only says "Oh natural laws don't work here"

[Lilivati]

Has it been mentioned that 4th edition elves are dark skinned. Just like Haley's Daddy was a first (or was it 2nd) edition thief it seems V's children are 4th Edition Elves.
This is my favorite explanation. XD

[Prak]

This is my favorite explanation. XD

I think it's the stupidest damn thing I've ever heard, but it actually sounds like the kind of thing that would happen in this comic...

[David Argall]

Our artist just got a new paint program and couldn't wait to try it out?

[Optimystik]

Maybe Vaaruvius is the Elven equivalent of John and that style house is their white house with a picket fence. Leaving their families to master magic is already probably an elven stereotype anyway.

If every elf (or even most elves) lived in a house that looked like his, the dragon would be unlikely to mention it to V as a defining description like she did.

[allenw]

I really like the "4th edition" theory, but how about this one:
"Other Parent" isn't V, it's Zz'dtri the Drow (late of the Linear Guild, last seen being dragged off by lawyers for copyright infringement). Either the Oracle misled Mommy Dragon, or Evil Opposites mess up scrying spells.
I note that V and Zz would look pretty much identical as a macaroni picture. :smalltongue:

[Optimystik]

I really like the "4th edition" theory, but how about this one:
"Other Parent" isn't V, it's Zz'dtri the Drow (late of the Linear Guild, last seen being dragged off by lawyers for copyright infringement). Either the Oracle misled Mommy Dragon, or Evil Opposites mess up scrying spells.
I note that V and Zz would look pretty much identical as a macaroni picture. :smalltongue:

Drow aren't tan, they're charcoal black. But where are people getting the idea that all 4E elves are dusky anyway? WotC previewed one and they look pretty pale to me:

http://www.wizards.com/global/images/dnd_dramp_20071221_pic3_en.jpg

[allenw]

Drow aren't tan, they're charcoal black.
Correct. And a half-drow?

[Optimystik]

Correct. And a half-drow?

Vary from pale to grey to black, but brown? Not unless the other parent is brown-skinned too, which rules out both V and his mate.

[Prak]

I got it! The father is Baragos, my wild elf barbarian! If one of the kids flies into a fury, rips Momma Matron Dragon's head off and makes a trenchcoat out of her scales, we'll know!

[Jural]

I think it is definitely something which will get explained later. These things are generally not accidents. This isn't TV Tropes talking either- if you met two children who looked nothing like their parents, you would imagine something was odd as well.

Getting inside the plot for a bit, the decision to put children with obvious physical differences from both parents into the strip likely indicates a few things:

1) The kids differ in some important way from V and his mate.

2) The kids will be discussed and dealt with in more detail later- even if they die in the next strip.

3) The differing point is a key to V's backstory.

Now... my theory here doesn't exist. I tend to agree with Optimystik that these are a different subset of elves. Aside from that, I only have wild speculation! I don't imagine Roy or Eugene fathered them, nor Roys' grandfather, or random other characters seen to date.

[Ozymandias9]

Drow aren't tan, they're charcoal black. But where are people getting the idea that all 4E elves are dusky anyway? WotC previewed one and they look pretty pale to me:

http://www.wizards.com/global/images/dnd_dramp_20071221_pic3_en.jpg

I don't have them handy, but IIRC, the pictures in the PHB gave them a darker skin tone. The relevant rule change is that they are explicitly mentioned as having the same variation in skin tone as humans. In previous editions, elf skin tone was generally light unless specifically different for a sub-race.

Keep in mind, that while dark skin is generally dominant for humans and light skin generally recessive, the opposite might be true for elves. Consider these examples:

Humans:
Man A and Woman B both have one parent of solely African heritage and one parent of solely Caucasian heritage. Neither can have Caucasian pigmentation, but a child of A and B has a 1 in 4 chance of having Caucasian pigmentation (or at lease Caucasian base pigmentation-- there are secondary related traits that effect pigmentation that are not so cut and dry). Moreover, if the child has African base pigmentation, they sill have a 1 in 3 chance of having the recessive gene for Caucasian base pigmentation like A and B.

Elves:
If the situation is reversed and dark skin is recessive for elves while light skin is dominant, than all that is required for V and mate's children to have dark skin is that they both have the recessive gene for dark skin, which they could have inherited from a dark skinned parent or close ancestor (even a not-so-close ancestor is possible).

[Prak]

Elves:
If the situation is reversed and dark skin is recessive for elves while light skin is dominant, than all that is required for V and mate's children to have dark skin is that they both have the recessive gene for dark skin, which they could have inherited from a dark skinned parent or close ancestor (even a not-so-close ancestor is possible).
It would also require their genetics to interact in the same one in four chance, twice, in a row (unless there are more kids we have yet to see...)

(as I understand my genetics lessons from high school biology, which I'll admit I didn't pay much attention in, I can just diagram it)

[Kurald Galain]

They go to a tanning salon.

They're kids. They spend way more time outdoors than adults do.

OK, V is now permanently outdoors, but before that he was in a ship's cabin 24/7.

[small pumpkin m]

Drow aren't tan, they're charcoal black. But where are people getting the idea that all 4E elves are dusky anyway? WotC previewed one and they look pretty pale to me

That's because many artists have a tendency to not read too closely about what what they're supposed to be drawing when they have a pre-existing ideas about what, say, an elf, is supposed to look like. The description in the 4e phb says elves' skin tends towards tan or brown. More important for this discussion, it gives typical hair colours as dark brown, autumn orange, mossy green or deep gold. Note that these are kind of strange, but fit the children perfectly. Unlike the skin colours, they're also actually depicted in 4e artwork.

[Ozymandias9]

It would also require their genetics to interact in the same one in four chance, twice, in a row (unless there are more kids we have yet to see...)

(as I understand my genetics lessons from high school biology, which I'll admit I didn't pay much attention in, I can just diagram it)

Correct, (though only that portion need be the same: separate chromosomes are not, generally, linked). A noteworthy exception (since they're the same age) would be identical twins. Their hair color would seem to discount that, but given the sheer range of hair color we see in this family and in OOTS elves in general, it wouldn't be entirely unreasonable to assume that there are environmental factors to a elven hair color or a strong cultural bias towards permanently altering it.

[Prak]

true on the twins thing... though with as long lived as elves are, I would think twins would be exceptionally rare...

[Worira]

Huh? What does longevity have to do with the likelihood of twins?

[Zeful]

Huh? What does longevity have to do with the likelihood of twins?

Longer lifespans means that procreation isn't as necessary for survival, which means a slightly smaller number of childbirths. Twins would still have the same physical odds, but because of the smaller number of children in a generation twins seem rarer.

[Ozymandias9]

Longer lifespans means that procreation isn't as necessary for survival, which means a slightly smaller number of childbirths. Twins would still have the same physical odds, but because of the smaller number of children in a generation twins seem rarer.

Actually, placental mammals with longer life-spans also tend to have longer gestation periods, which correlates to lower births/pregnancy (or a lower rate of multiple births when dealing with mammals who usually present with single births) than other closely related species. There are, of course, exceptions: the correlation is by no means a perfect map. If elves and humans are genetically related species in game (which the presence of half-elves would seem to indicate), it would be reasonable to expect elves to have a lower incidence of twins per pregnancy.

[Zevox]

If elves and humans are genetically related species in game (which the presence of half-elves would seem to indicate)
Dude, if being able to produce half-breed offspring means the races are genetically related, then just about everything in D&D is genetically related to everything else. There are a ridiculous number of Half-<insert species here> races and templates out there, and most of the templates can be applied to just about anything.

Hell, some of the things that the Half-<blah> templates can be applied to make no sense even without genetics being considered. For instance, in a play-by-post forum I play on, a character of mine once had to fight a Half-Dragon Black Pudding. And by the rules, that monster can exist.

Zevox

[Corwin Weber]

I think it's the stupidest damn thing I've ever heard, but it actually sounds like the kind of thing that would happen in this comic...

The fact that it's pretty stupid yet entirely logical within the rule structure would be the punchline.

Wouldn't be the first time, either. :)

[Prak]

very true...and I have the odd feeling I may have pre-quoted Belkar...

[The Neoclassic]

Really, I just like the adoption explanation. Simple and sensical, and also fits if the two parents are both male (or both female, I suppose).

Though, really, do I think the Giant had some secret big explanation behind it? No. He probably did it just to mess with us. :smallsmile:

[Rotipher]

Another theory, not quite so screwy:

- The kids' skin color is 100% natural, but both V and V's mate, being adults with a concern for fashion, use powder or other makeup to turn their faces pale. This is a cultural practice from their home village which V has been neglecting, which accounts for vir godsawful appearance in recent strips: it's not just lack of trance, it's poorly-tended makeup.

[awibs]

despite the high number of perfectly reasonable in-canon explanations (adoption, elf genetics being widely varied, v or his mate carry recessive genes from one of their parents) I'm more interested in a "what's the dramatic function of making it so noticeable?" sort of question. the giant is too observant and pre-planned to just make them not match as an accident, i think - given that roy's entire family is black and easily recognizable under current common assumptions as his family. also, given that haley's father is also a redhead, and elan, nale, and their mother are all blonde, which are actually much less dominant traits. dark skin and curly hair are both dominant traits - everyone in a family will have them, or some shade of latte-colored ness and still the curly hair if half-white and half-black. The oversimplified genetic layout for caucasian hair color, however, is that for every four children in a typical caucasian gene pool, one will be blonde, one will be redheaded, and two will be (fair-skinned) brunettes. It's actually fairly unlikely that Haley's whole family would be redheaded - but it's a good literary choice to just draw her father to match so he's easily recognizable. It's also REALLY unlikely that both elan and nale are so blonde (since many child blondes darken as adults) from just his mother, unless his mystery helmet-hidden father happens to be so extremely blonde, and even then it's not guaranteed. But why draw them all the same? Because it's just easy to recognize.

So, since the giant consistently makes people look predictably related to whomever they're supposed to be related to, I doubt he drew the kids different colored for the hell of it or because he didn't think it through.

I think their coloration will be significant, and revealed at the speed of plot.

[nleseul]

Heck V could have developed a 1st level spell that allows one to switch genders until the spell is dismissed (Duration: Instantaneous (D)) so that the child's conception, development and delivery would be successful.

As I recall, that exact spell does exist in the Book of Erotic Fantasy. :smallbiggrin: How much more awesome would real life be with that around?

Although I think the duration was 1 hour/level.

[Prak]

There is another possibility. It is possible that V and hir mate are naturally as dark as the kids, and a magic event made them lite skinned. Could even be the circumstances under which they met, both victims of the same magical accident.


I don't think that's what's actually going on though. More likely that the kids are adopted and that said adoption will play a role in the current subplot.