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View Full Version : Why not strike out at a hero's family?



kyrin
2009-02-06, 11:47 PM
Seeing the storyline of the vengeful dragon brings to mind a quandary I've had since I read DC's recent series Justice, where Lex Luthor and the Legion o' Doom get ahold of secret ID's and family lists for the Justice League. Why don't villains strike at heroes' families more often than they do. Why don't real-life criminals strike at real-life law enforcement officials' families more than they do?

So I imagined a conversation between Luthor and Gorilla Grodd:

LL: Now the cornerstone of the Justice League's doom is laid, Grodd.

GG: What are you blathering about, Luthor?

LL: Information is power, my simian ally. For example, do you you know that the Flash is... Barry Allen?

GG: Of course I do.

LL: (Sputter) Whaat?

GG: I'm a telepath, Luthor. I read minds, even ones travelling at hundreds of miles per hour. I know his name, his family, his hometown, his favorite color, every grade he got in high school. You are all open books to me.

LL: Why haven't you struck at him through his family and friends?

GG: (Rolls eyes) Like all your hairless breed, Luthor, you lack vision. Are you even aware that the Flash is one of the most dangerous beings on the planet? He could run into a cutlery store in another city, grab a knife, and use it to skin me alive in the time it takes me to finish this sentence. Why would I want to give him a reason to?

LL: Er...

GG: And you are the stupidest of all. You routinely oppose an alien who can boil your brain by looking at you. You think a little green rock can save you from a creature who can simply toss mountains at you... from the Moon!

LL: Superman would never... his moral code...

GG: Would experience instant defenestration once his mate is threatened. The Law of the Jungle, Luthor. Your microcephalic intellect fails to realize that the heroes see our conflicts from an entirely different perspective than we. It's all a game of Cops and Robbers to most of them, and so they "pull their punches," as it were. Threatening Iris Allen would gain me nothing, except to motivate the Flash to use his full power against me. He might feel terribly guilty about it afterward, but I would be just as dead. As long as we strike at just them, it's all part of the game. And that is our only advantage, Luthor. Don't be a fool and throw it away.

Now this is not as applicable to a D&D world as a comics world (is the comic book forum gone?), but I think that some D&D villains might realize this. Mama Black is opening up doors she might not want to. Then again, I could just be looking for personal justification as a DM, because I think the whole "strike at the family" thing is so overdone (not to mention very unfun in a game played among friends), and I'd never use it.

Anyway, blah blah, I'm trying to avoid work. Thanks for reading.

JIM
aka kyrin

DigoDragon
2009-02-06, 11:55 PM
For more immediate after effects of striking against someone's family, there's always people like The Punisher. :)

Assassin89
2009-02-06, 11:58 PM
For more immediate after effects of striking against someone's family, there's always people like The Punisher. :)

Who would then be killed and eaten by the dragon.

magic9mushroom
2009-02-07, 12:02 AM
The point here is that it doesn't apply, because the dragon has little to fear from V. Of course, when V attains CaTUAP, the dragon will probably regret not killing her.

kyrin
2009-02-07, 12:05 AM
Who would then be killed and eaten by the dragon.

And then the dragon would die as the Punisher shoots his way out. :smallwink:

"Journal Entry #768: Eaten by dragon, just like at Dien Ben Phu..."

JIM
aka kyrin

kyrin
2009-02-07, 12:08 AM
The point here is that it doesn't apply, because the dragon has little to fear from V. Of course, when V attains CaTUAP, the dragon will probably regret not killing her.

Black Mama should know better. PCs always come back stronger, and with friends. The best a villain can hope for is Parallel Level Increase. Xykon really should hold a seminar. I can see the title know: "Meteor Swarm Your Troubles Away: How I dealt with that one guy with the sword."

JIM
aka kyrin

TheLoneCleric
2009-02-07, 12:14 AM
For more immediate after effects of striking against someone's family, there's always people like The Punisher. :)

1. Digo!!!

2. Go read my bit about escalating spitefulness in the main comic thread.

3. ???

4. Profit.

Mando Knight
2009-02-07, 12:35 AM
Well, V can't really take revenge on the dragon... if V confronts the beastie, it'll probably ruin V's day again with AMF/Full-Attack then fly out of range of Dimensional Anchor and Greater Teleport away. Unlike Luthor and Supes or Grodd and Flash, the Dragon doesn't have to worry about V's abilities: after all, she's got the same maximum shown spell level, greater spells per day, several times the HP, SR, and viable non-magical combat capabilities compared to the wizard's fewer spells-per-day, d4 hit dice, and evocation specialization. Unless V's Mate is a high-level Dragonslayer-type character (like a ranger with Favored Enemy Dragon) or if there's another high-level caster in the village, the Dragon's vengeance is a high-benefit, low-cost situation for her.

Haggis
2009-02-07, 12:48 AM
Seeing the storyline of the vengeful dragon brings to mind a quandary I've had since I read DC's recent series Justice, where Lex Luthor and the Legion o' Doom get ahold of secret ID's and family lists for the Justice League. Why don't villains strike at heroes' families more often than they do. Why don't real-life criminals strike at real-life law enforcement officials' families more than they do?

So I imagined a conversation between Luthor and Gorilla Grodd:

LL: Now the cornerstone of the Justice League's doom is laid, Grodd.

GG: What are you blathering about, Luthor?

LL: Information is power, my simian ally. For example, do you you know that the Flash is... Barry Allen?

GG: Of course I do.

LL: (Sputter) Whaat?

GG: I'm a telepath, Luthor. I read minds, even ones travelling at hundreds of miles per hour. I know his name, his family, his hometown, his favorite color, every grade he got in high school. You are all open books to me.

LL: Why haven't you struck at him through his family and friends?

GG: (Rolls eyes) Like all your hairless breed, Luthor, you lack vision. Are you even aware that the Flash is one of the most dangerous beings on the planet? He could run into a cutlery store in another city, grab a knife, and use it to skin me alive in the time it takes me to finish this sentence. Why would I want to give him a reason to?

LL: Er...

GG: And you are the stupidest of all. You routinely oppose an alien who can boil your brain by looking at you. You think a little green rock can save you from a creature who can simply toss mountains at you... from the Moon!

LL: Superman would never... his moral code...

GG: Would experience instant defenestration once his mate is threatened. The Law of the Jungle, Luthor. Your microcephalic intellect fails to realize that the heroes see our conflicts from an entirely different perspective than we. It's all a game of Cops and Robbers to most of them, and so they "pull their punches," as it were. Threatening Iris Allen would gain me nothing, except to motivate the Flash to use his full power against me. He might feel terribly guilty about it afterward, but I would be just as dead. As long as we strike at just them, it's all part of the game. And that is our only advantage, Luthor. Don't be a fool and throw it away.

Now this is not as applicable to a D&D world as a comics world (is the comic book forum gone?), but I think that some D&D villains might realize this. Mama Black is opening up doors she might not want to. Then again, I could just be looking for personal justification as a DM, because I think the whole "strike at the family" thing is so overdone (not to mention very unfun in a game played among friends), and I'd never use it.

Anyway, blah blah, I'm trying to avoid work. Thanks for reading.

JIM
aka kyrin

The fact that you used barry is ironic. That has happened to him The Zoom once seem (he didn't but it involves time travel so lets leave it at that) to kill his love iris (I want to say during thier wedding) And he was pushed to the point that he broke zoom's neck.

Heck for that matter look how much Elan changed when he felt a certain rogue was in danger. Or when ninja girl was killed.


Well, V can't really take revenge on the dragon... if V confronts the beastie, it'll probably ruin V's day again with AMF/Full-Attack then fly out of range of Dimensional Anchor and Greater Teleport away. Unlike Luthor and Supes or Grodd and Flash, the Dragon doesn't have to worry about V's abilities: after all, she's got the same maximum shown spell level, greater spells per day, several times the HP, SR, and viable non-magical combat capabilities compared to the wizard's fewer spells-per-day, d4 hit dice, and evocation specialization. Unless V's Mate is a high-level Dragonslayer-type character (like a ranger with Favored Enemy Dragon) or if there's another high-level caster in the village, the Dragon's vengeance is a high-benefit, low-cost situation for her.

Not alone prehaps, but rememeber they called the order of the stick because they stick together. Hahahaha.

... ha.

Really though when push comes to shove V has some major back up. Plus (despite how he been acting) he's smart. He may still have an ace in his guano pouch.