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View Full Version : [3.5] Need help with a rather silly build: the Freerunner



overduegalaxy
2009-02-07, 03:37 PM
A few months ago, I stumbled across Zenos's Parkour (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=71405) feat, and thought to myself "Now that would be a fun feat to build a concept around, but I never get to play city-based campaigns".

A few months later, my rogue got gutted by a halfling mercenary while wandering the back-alleys of Sharn, City of Towers, and I find myself in a position to take advantage of that idea that struck me all those months ago.

My basic idea is a character who excels at moving through the city. I'll be maxing ranks in tumble, jump, climb, balance, and so on. However, I'm not exactly sure the best way to approach it. The Scout struck me immediately as a good choice, especially the dungeon specialist variant from PHB2. A class that gains damage because it moves around a lot seems to be right in the right vein. However, scout builds often focus on ranged weapons, and the concept of jumping around with a bow slung across his back strikes me as silly.

Another idea was the Urban Ranger variant, but, again, I don't want to use ranged weapons, and with moving around so much, I'd lose any advantages of TWF the class gave me.

Rogue is always a good option for almost any build, but I did just finish playing one in the same campaign. However, doing the Sneak Attack/Bonus Feat tradeoff might differentiate it enough, plus give me a slew of feats to help me pull off wackiness.

Optimization isn't really a big concern. One player in the group thinks wizards make good glass cannons, another is a Swashbuckler with a 14 Dex, 12 Int, and 12 Str (and a 20 Wis, for whatever reason).

SUMMARY: I want to build a character that's an expert at moving through urban terrain. What suggestions (for classes, feats, etc), advice, or anything else do the forums have?

Shades of Gray
2009-02-07, 03:40 PM
Scout can work with melee weapons, just put plenty of ranks in tumble. Leap attack is cool too, but if you are going for smaller weapons it's worse. Races of Destiny has many prestige classes suited to this concept as well, like one that can meld with buildings and walk on walls.

CompositeSanta
2009-02-07, 03:41 PM
I think races of destiny had some really interesting city-based feats, like one that gave a bonus for fighting on rooftops and such. Boots of Spiderclimb would be a nice item to augment your abilities, and also there's an item in complete scoundrel called "Rod of Ropes" which is basically a portable source of rope, an auto-firing grappling hook, and a zipline all in one. It's pretty much my favorite magic item, give it a look.

Jimp
2009-02-07, 03:56 PM
There are a few feats in either Complete Adventurer, Cityscape or Complete Scoundrel that would work but I don't know their names. I just remember glancing at them.

Emong
2009-02-07, 04:03 PM
If you're open to homebrew I believe that there is a Runner PrC that someone on these forums wrote up that does almost exactly what you want.


Edit: Found it. (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=101582)

J-H
2009-02-07, 04:04 PM
Weightless Foot prestige class from Dragon Magazine.
Slow Fall, water walk, take 10 on balance/climb/tumble checks, major bonuses to those skills, Spring Attack, Shot on the Run, and the ability to walk on walls for part of your movement.

sonofzeal
2009-02-07, 04:11 PM
Urban Barbarian (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/we/20070228a) seems perfect for this. Mix with Psychic Warrior (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/psionic/classes/psychicWarrior.htm) using Up The Walls (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/psionic/psionicFeats.htm#upTheWalls) and Speed of Thought (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/psionic/psionicFeats.htm#speedOfThought), and season to taste.

(edit) If you go this route, concider the Xephs (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/psionic/psionicRaces.htm#xephs) race.

Teron
2009-02-07, 04:11 PM
This is pretty much the thief-acrobat PrC's schtick. Most of its class features allow for safer, faster balancing, climbing, tumbling and what not. I believe the most recent version is in Complete Adventurer.

Random NPC
2009-02-07, 04:36 PM
Swordsage!

Why? Shadow Jaunt/Stride/Blink. Sudden Leap. Leaping Dragon Stance.

Max jump, tumble, balance and go to town.

Tengu_temp
2009-02-07, 04:59 PM
However, scout builds often focus on ranged weapons, and the concept of jumping around with a bow slung across his back strikes me as silly.


Taking a one-level dip in Spirit Lion Totem variant barbarian makes a melee scout equally, if not more, viable as a ranged one using Manyshot.

imperialspectre
2009-02-07, 05:26 PM
Taking a one-level dip in Spirit Lion Totem variant barbarian makes a melee scout equally, if not more, viable as a ranged one using Manyshot.

Additionally, grab a couple levels in Ranger, for TWF, and grab Swift Tracker and Favored Enemy: Undead (or Constructs or Elementals, if those are more common in your game) to make skirmish damage apply to your precision-damage-immune nemeses. Going with Scout the rest of the way gives you lots of skills and synergy with the mobility you're looking for.

As much as I love martial adepts, you probably don't want a Swordsage for this particular concept, because most of the Swordsage mobility boosts are much more supernatural in flavor, using dimension door equivalents and such. Spirit Lion Totem Barbarian 1/Urban Ranger 2/Scout X is probably your best mundane mobility-based build.

Sendal
2009-02-07, 05:54 PM
Have you considered the ninja?

I know what everyone says about how its realy weak, but you said yourself you aren't going for uber build O'doom.

They get small boosts to acrobatic skills (Jump, tumble and climb) plus they get to jump without a run up at no penalty. It looks alot like the rogue at first glance, but it plays quite differently because you have to rely alot more on surprise as you don't get sneak-attack from flanking.

If your at higher levels you could move into thief acrobat or some other prestiege class to emphasise the acrobatic nature of your character

TempusCCK
2009-02-07, 06:11 PM
Skill Mastery of some sort sounds essential for this character. You need the ability to take 10 on all your mobility skills.

Zenos
2009-02-07, 06:23 PM
Somebody wants to make a character because of looking on a homebrew feat I made? That makes me smile. :smallsmile:

Anyways, I would like to second the ninja. And if you end up alone and expecting few encounters per day, the ninja can be a pretty good nova.

Bad Situation
2009-02-07, 08:25 PM
Monk. No, seriously.

You'll be able to move fast, slow fall to avoid falling damage in case you mistep a jump and abundant step just in case.

You could deliver packages or something.

EDIT:Oh sorry, I didn't read OP clearly. You wanted to do damage too.

Prometheus
2009-02-07, 09:11 PM
That Runner PrC looks like a good one to work into your class. Alternatively, you could become an Explorer of Fharlanghn (scroll down) (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=89760).

As for other build considerations, you have to ask yourself what it is that your character will be doing with these abilities:
-Perhaps you are a thief who is lousy at pick-pocketing but has learned to be good at running. If so, you'll need to put points in Bluff, Disguise, and Hide which means you will probably have to be a class with a large amount of skill points (or take-skill-based feats) and you should consider taking Unarmed strike and Deflect Arrows (probably a Monk). That and you will have to ask yourself why you don't just learn/use teleportation.
-Perhaps you act as some kind of scout or spy whose job is to sweep a large area quickly? If that is the case, you will need to have good Spot checks, but the real you won't want to slow yourself with hiding, so instead you will want invisibility. That points to Ninja (which helps you surprise attack someone when you find them), or perhaps a dip into sorcerer (where you'll also pick up divination and illusion).
-Maybe instead you are someone who tracks down fugitives on foot. In that case, you will definitely want to take Bloodhound, so you get bonuses against your mark, Track very well, and pick up Find the Path.
-If you want to make yourself a distraction and draw enemies away from you (to be picked off by allies, to be lead into traps, or left lost and confused), than you will need an ability that forces people to attack you. The Matador (http://wiki.faxcelestis.net/index.php?title=Matador) or The Knight (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/ex/20060501a&page=2) have abilities that might help (sadly, the Goad feat will be of no use).
-Maybe it doesn't really matter what you do while in combat, you just like the idea of being a traveler. Than you could become a Horizon Walker and you might also see if you can pick up some magic items that make you adept at climbing, burrowing, flying, and/or swimming.
-You mentioned an aversion to ranged attacks, but hit and run is another strategy. You specifically mentioned feet-movement, but if you just want to be fast than mounts are the best way to do it.

Sstoopidtallkid
2009-02-07, 11:45 PM
The skill tricks are awesome for this sort of thing, and the Thief-Acrobat is designed for being agile and not much else. If you want to be effective though, Barb 1/Scout X is incredible for fast fighting, with or without Ranger, as stated. A re-fluffed Dervish or Snowflake Wardance Bard(see if Perform:Parkour counts as Perform:Dance)would also work well.

Arbitrarity
2009-02-08, 12:10 AM
I love swordsage for designing this sort of thing, because even without Shadow Jaunt, etc, you have: Sudden Leap, Quicksilver Motion, Leaping Dragon Stance, Whatever the heck that spider climb stance is, step of the wind. Run on walls, run easily in sand/difficult terrain, jump as a swift action, move as a swift action, jump really, really far. That sort of thing is just nice to have. Also, Swiftblade has some neat abilities, but it's caster-based, and needs haste (Found here. (http://letmegooglethatforyou.com/?q=D%26D+swiftblade&l=1)

Efstrofos
2009-02-08, 01:45 AM
I think you'd accomplish what you want well with Urban Ranger/Scout/Dervish using the Swift Hunter feat to keep your skirmish high. This would allow your to move through cities and crowds, get bonus damage when you move, and full attack after moving (when dervish dancing). This would also make the 2 weapon fighting from ranger have a purpose, as well as net you some bonus move speed from scout. Theres also a feat that adds skirmish damage if you move more than 20 ft, though the name escapes me.

metalbear
2009-02-08, 02:54 PM
One idea if you are not opposed to taking the LA hit is the catfolk race from the races of the wild. With a +1 LA you get low-light vision, +1 AC, +2 to listen and move silently checks, +4 to dexterity, +2 to charisma, and a base movement of 40 feet

overduegalaxy
2009-02-08, 10:17 PM
Right now I'm planning on going Urban Ranger 4/Dungeon Specialist Scout for a while/Bloodhound. My DM is allowing me to drop spellcasting from the Ranger to pick up the non-casting bonuses, as well as Disable Device, keeping it a class skill for long enough for me to get it fairly high.

I'm taking enough levels of Urban Ranger to get my animal companion, then I'll rely on Natural Bond to make sure it doesn't lag too far behind. Companion will probably be some sort of bird, or maybe a monkey.

However, someone on another board mentioned the Battle Dancer, which is in Dragon Magazine, but they couldn't remember the issue. Is it worth it for me to try and dig up this class, or is it way off the mark?

Ashes
2009-02-09, 07:41 AM
I made a character once that was Rogue/Ranger/Scout/Eldeen Reachrunner(Races of Eberron)/Thief-Acrobat (Complete adventurer).

He was also a Longstrider shifter. He was awesome for that.

I also made a base class once that does exactly what you want. It's like a mix between Ninja, Monk, Rogue and some Scout. Not very powerful, but really good at running around and jumping.

I can post it for you, if you want.

Heliomance
2009-02-09, 08:34 AM
I'm pretty sure the Roofrunner is exactly what your looking for. It's 3.0 and possibly third party, though. It's from Traps and Treachery I. Gets things like full movement speed over rooves, circumstance bonuses to AC from knowing just where that wobbly tile is, a safehouse that can't be found except by magic or another Roofrunner, the ability to find hidden routes that have been forgotten for decades, and eventually the ability to double back around behind pursuers and get a surprise round if you manage to get out of sight for one round.

Dyllan
2009-02-09, 08:36 AM
I don't think I've ever seen so many varied suggestions to one build question...

Obviously, you need to be a Half-Catfolk/Half-Xephs Urban Spirit Lion Totem Barbarian/Urban Ranger/Snowflake Wardance Bard/Monk/Rogue/Dungeon Specialist Scout/Swordsage/Ninja/Sorcerer/Knight/Psionic Warrior/Eldeen Reachrunner/Thief-Acrobat/Bloodhound/Battle Dancer/Dervish/Swiftblade/Explorer of Fharlanghn/Matador/Horizon Walker/Runner/Weightless Foot/Roofrunner

Of course, if you take everyone's suggestions, you'll need to be at least level 23, before your racial level adjustments... not to mention homebrewing a crossbreed race...

overduegalaxy
2009-02-09, 02:08 PM
The Reachrunner might work with a little reflavoring. And switching out the Shifter-specific abilities, assuming my DM approves.

I've cleared most of the hurdles for getting the character ready to play (even found the perfect animal companion: the climbdog from Arms and Equipment Guide), but I can't find a good weapon that still leaves my hands free. My first thought was a pair of spiked gauntlets, but 1d4 base damage is a little lacking. Right now I'm relying on knee blades from Complete Scoundrel, but taking a -2 to attack, plus another -2 for TWF isn't appealing, either.

So, again, any suggestions there? I'm an elf, which means (according to this DM), I get to treat ANY weapon that's Elven (like the Elven Lightblade, for example) as a martial weapon.

Ashes
2009-02-09, 06:26 PM
Bladed Gauntlets from Sword and Fist? 1d8 18-20/x2 IIRC.

overduegalaxy
2009-02-10, 06:03 PM
That's pretty much what I'm looking for, but since this is already a feat-heavy build, I'd like it if I could find something that doesn't need Exotic Weapon Prof.

I might have to settle for spiked gauntlets.

Draz74
2009-02-10, 07:55 PM
Armor spikes are at least 1d6 rather than 1d4. But you can't TWF with them and they might feel rather silly on light armor.

woodenbandman
2009-02-10, 07:58 PM
Factotum between 3 and 8 levels. 3 levels gets you INT to your STR and DEX skills... That means climb and jump, and balance, and use rope, and hide/move silently and tumble... All INT based now. You can put STR and DEX at 10 and just max the hell out of INT. 8 levels grants you a few SLAs/day as well as sexy sexy extra standard actions.

Then go Exemplar for as many levels as you can. Skill Masteries, add INT to a bunch of stuff... Even a 1 level dip is sweet.

Finally, go for something like Blade Dancer (Oriental adventures), and take a Swordsage Dip of 2 levels to pick up leaping dragon stance (10 foot enhancement. That's in every direction. you can now jump 10 feet up from a standing jump).

Pick up Leap Attack and Battle jump on the way, and make sure you get at least a 13 strength. Your damage is based around multipliers, so get a valorous weapon, too.

As a last thought, pick up a single level of Barbarian for pounce.

You can now basically charge across a rooftop, leap off of it, land, and pounce on someone for x2 damage FULL ATTACK, x3 power attack return (assuming 2hw).

The cool thing about this is that it only takes a few levels, maybe 9 or 10, to come into power. Leap Attack/Battle Jump is your combo, and you can pretty much skill your way out of any situation. Once exemplar/blade dancer come into play, and you buy items that boost your jumps, you can jump like 60 feet or more.

Bugbeartrap
2009-02-13, 03:11 AM
someone mentioned the skill tricks from complete warrior, but no one mentioned the same feat from that book: Freerunner. Thats the first thing that popped into my head. Get 2 skill tricks free plus increase your limit, yo.

BobVosh
2009-02-13, 03:59 AM
Scout, Dervish build always exists