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knightsaline
2006-09-25, 01:33 AM
I thought of this quite recently, yet need some more input into how this would work. I really do not like the metamagic system (wasting a feat to either silence your spell or make it so that you donít need to move your hands doesnít seem right) so I turned the feats into spells.

First off, there are no metamagic feats. Second, every time a wizard or sorcerer would get a bonus feat to spend on a metamagic feat, they get a bonus spell slot/ times cast day, but can only be used to apply a metamagic spell and last, spell level adjustment is the adjustment to the base spells level
Here we go!


Eschew materials
Universal
Level: Cleric 0, bard 0, druid 0, sorcerer 0
Spell level adjustment: + 0
Components: V,S
Casting time: immediate
Range: personal
Target: one spell
Duration: instantaneous
Saving throw: none
Spell resistance: none

This spell does not count towards your spells per round. You may apply this spell to another spell, provided you can apply metamagic effects to the base spell. The base spell will not require material components

Enlarge spell
Universal
Level: Cleric 0, bard 0, druid 0, sorcerer 0, wizard 0
Spell level adjustment: + 1
Components: V,S,M
Casting time: immediate
Range: personal
Target: one spell
Duration: instantaneous
Saving throw: none
Spell resistance: none

This spell does not count towards your spells per round. You may apply this spell to another spell, provided you can apply metamagic effects to the base spell. The base spellís range is increased by 100%



Empower spell
Universal
Level: Cleric 0, bard 0, druid 0, sorcerer 0,wizard 0
Spell level adjustment: + 2
Components: V,S,M
Casting time: immediate
Range: personal
Target: one spell
Duration: instantaneous
Saving throw: none
Spell resistance: none

This spell does not count towards your spells per round. You may apply this spell to another spell, provided you can apply metamagic effects to the base spell. The base spellís numerical variables are increased by 50%
Material component: whatever the material component was for the base spell and a drop of dragon blood or other sorcerous race

Extend Spell
Universal
Level: Cleric 0, bard 0, druid 0, sorcerer 0, wizard 0
Spell level adjustment: + 1
Components: V,S,M
Casting time: immediate
Range: personal
Target: one spell
Duration: instantaneous
Saving throw: none
Spell resistance: none

This spell does not count towards your spells per round. You may apply this spell to another spell, provided you can apply metamagic effects to the base spell. The base spells duration is doubled
Material component: two times the amount of the base spells material component

Heighten spell
Universal
Level: Cleric 0, bard 0, druid 0, sorcerer 0, wizard 0
Spell level adjustment: see crunchy text
Components: V,S,M
Casting time: immediate
Range: personal
Target: one spell
Duration: instantaneous
Saving throw: none
Spell resistance: none

This spell does not count towards your spells per round. You may apply this spell to another spell, provided you can apply metamagic effects to the base spell. The spell level adjustment is however high the spell is heightened. The spell is heightened to a level that you can cast at
Material componr

Maximize Spell
Universal
Level: Cleric 0, bard 0, druid 0, sorcerer 0, wizard 0
Spell level adjustment: + 3
Components: V,S,M
Casting time: immediate
Range: personal
Target: one spell
Duration: instantaneous
Saving throw: none
Spell resistance: none

This spell does not count towards your spells per round. You may apply this spell to another spell, provided you can apply metamagic effects to the base spell. The base spell does maximum damage, cures maximum hitpoints or affects the maximum amount of targets.


Quicken spell
Universal
Level: Cleric 0, bard 0, druid 0, wizard 0
Spell level adjustment: + 4
Components: S
Casting time: immediate
Range: personal
Target: one spell
Duration: instantaneous
Saving throw: none
Spell resistance: none

This spell does not count towards your spells per round. You may apply this spell to another spell, provided you can apply metamagic effects to the base spell. The base spellís casting time is changed into a free action

Silent spell
Universal
Level: Cleric 0, bard 0, druid 0, sorcerer 0, wizard 0
Spell level adjustment: + 1
Components: S, M
Casting time: immediate
Range: personal
Target: one spell
Duration: instantaneous
Saving throw: none
Spell resistance: none

This spell does not count towards your spells per round. You may apply this spell to another spell, provided you can apply metamagic effects to the base spell
Material component: a sirens voice box

Still spell
Universal
Level: Cleric 0, bard 0, druid 0, sorcerer 0, wizard 0
Spell level adjustment: +1
Components: V,M
Casting time: immediate
Range: personal
Target: one spell
Duration: instantaneous
Saving throw: none
Spell resistance: none

This spell does not count towards your spells per round. You may apply this spell to another spell, provided you can apply metamagic effects to the base spell. The spell no longer requires a somatic component
Material component: a teardrop of a ghost

Widen spell
Universal
Level: Cleric 0, bard 0, druid 0, sorcerer 0, wizard 0
Spell level adjustment: + 3
Components: V,S,M
Casting time: immediate
Range: personal
Target: one spell
Duration: instantaneous
Saving throw: none
Spell resistance: none

This spell does not count towards your spells per round. You may apply this spell to another spell, provided you can apply metamagic effects to the base spell. The base spells area is doubled.


Now for the True homebrewed spell/feats

Chain spell
Universal
Level: Cleric 0, bard 0, druid 0, sorcerer 0, wizard 0
Spell level adjustment: + 1/2
Components:
Casting time: immediate
Range: personal
Target: one spell
Duration: instantaneous
Saving throw: none
Spell resistance: none

This spell does not count towards your spells per round. You may apply this spell to another spell, provided you can apply metamagic effects to the base spell. The base spell can be chained with another spell.

Damage less spell
Universal
Level: Cleric 0, bard 0, druid 0, sorcerer 0, wizard 0
Spell level adjustment: -1
Components: V,S,M,F
Casting time: immediate
Range: personal
Target: one spell
Duration: instantaneous
Saving throw: none
Spell resistance: none

This spell does not count towards your spells per round. You may apply this spell to another spell, provided you can apply metamagic effects to the base spell. The spell now does non-lethal damage.
Material component: a foam missile
Material focus: a plastic gun to fire the foam missile. The plastic gun costs 5 gp




Or of you wish, here are the feats

Chain spell [metamagic]
You are especially good at firing one spell after another.
Benefit: you can fire off another spell after casting a spell. Both spells must have this feat applied to them.
both spells must be of the same level (example, you cannot fire off a magic missile and a lightning spell) A chained spell uses up a spell slot Ĺ higher


Damage-less spell [metamagic]
You have trained yourself to make your spells non-damaging
Benefit: your spells deal non-lethal damage instead of doing lethal damage. A damageless spell takes up a spell slot one lower


how is this?

NullAshton
2006-09-25, 02:46 PM
I thought of this quite recently, yet need some more input into how this would work. I really do not like the metamagic system (wasting a feat to either silence your spell or make it so that you donít need to move your hands doesnít seem right) so I turned the feats into spells.

First off, there are no metamagic feats. Second, every time a wizard or sorcerer would get a bonus feat to spend on a metamagic feat, they get a bonus spell slot/ times cast day, but can only be used to apply a metamagic spell and last, spell level adjustment is the adjustment to the base spells level
Here we go!


Eschew materials
Universal
Level: Cleric 0, bard 0, druid 0, sorcerer 0
Spell level adjustment: + 0
Components: V,S
Casting time: immediate
Range: personal
Target: one spell
Duration: instantaneous
Saving throw: none
Spell resistance: none

This spell does not count towards your spells per round. You may apply this spell to another spell, provided you can apply metamagic effects to the base spell. The base spell will not require material components

No. Do you really want people casting spells with no expensive material components whatsoever?

Enlarge spell
Universal
Level: Cleric 0, bard 0, druid 0, sorcerer 0, wizard 0
Spell level adjustment: + 1
Components: V,S,M
Casting time: immediate
Range: personal
Target: one spell
Duration: instantaneous
Saving throw: none
Spell resistance: none

This spell does not count towards your spells per round. You may apply this spell to another spell, provided you can apply metamagic effects to the base spell. The base spellís range is increased by 100%



Empower spell
Universal
Level: Cleric 0, bard 0, druid 0, sorcerer 0,wizard 0
Spell level adjustment: + 2
Components: V,S,M
Casting time: immediate
Range: personal
Target: one spell
Duration: instantaneous
Saving throw: none
Spell resistance: none

This spell does not count towards your spells per round. You may apply this spell to another spell, provided you can apply metamagic effects to the base spell. The base spellís numerical variables are increased by 50%
Material component: whatever the material component was for the base spell and a drop of dragon blood or other sorcerous race

Extend Spell
Universal
Level: Cleric 0, bard 0, druid 0, sorcerer 0, wizard 0
Spell level adjustment: + 1
Components: V,S,M
Casting time: immediate
Range: personal
Target: one spell
Duration: instantaneous
Saving throw: none
Spell resistance: none

This spell does not count towards your spells per round. You may apply this spell to another spell, provided you can apply metamagic effects to the base spell. The base spells duration is doubled
Material component: two times the amount of the base spells material component

Heighten spell
Universal
Level: Cleric 0, bard 0, druid 0, sorcerer 0, wizard 0
Spell level adjustment: see crunchy text
Components: V,S,M
Casting time: immediate
Range: personal
Target: one spell
Duration: instantaneous
Saving throw: none
Spell resistance: none

This spell does not count towards your spells per round. You may apply this spell to another spell, provided you can apply metamagic effects to the base spell. The spell level adjustment is however high the spell is heightened. The spell is heightened to a level that you can cast at
Material componr

Maximize Spell
Universal
Level: Cleric 0, bard 0, druid 0, sorcerer 0, wizard 0
Spell level adjustment: + 3
Components: V,S,M
Casting time: immediate
Range: personal
Target: one spell
Duration: instantaneous
Saving throw: none
Spell resistance: none

This spell does not count towards your spells per round. You may apply this spell to another spell, provided you can apply metamagic effects to the base spell. The base spell does maximum damage, cures maximum hitpoints or affects the maximum amount of targets.


Quicken spell
Universal
Level: Cleric 0, bard 0, druid 0, wizard 0
Spell level adjustment: + 4
Components: S
Casting time: immediate
Range: personal
Target: one spell
Duration: instantaneous
Saving throw: none
Spell resistance: none

This spell does not count towards your spells per round. You may apply this spell to another spell, provided you can apply metamagic effects to the base spell. The base spellís casting time is changed into a free action

Silent spell
Universal
Level: Cleric 0, bard 0, druid 0, sorcerer 0, wizard 0
Spell level adjustment: + 1
Components: S, M
Casting time: immediate
Range: personal
Target: one spell
Duration: instantaneous
Saving throw: none
Spell resistance: none

This spell does not count towards your spells per round. You may apply this spell to another spell, provided you can apply metamagic effects to the base spell
Material component: a sirens voice box

Still spell
Universal
Level: Cleric 0, bard 0, druid 0, sorcerer 0, wizard 0
Spell level adjustment: +1
Components: V,M
Casting time: immediate
Range: personal
Target: one spell
Duration: instantaneous
Saving throw: none
Spell resistance: none

This spell does not count towards your spells per round. You may apply this spell to another spell, provided you can apply metamagic effects to the base spell. The spell no longer requires a somatic component
Material component: a teardrop of a ghost

Widen spell
Universal
Level: Cleric 0, bard 0, druid 0, sorcerer 0, wizard 0
Spell level adjustment: + 3
Components: V,S,M
Casting time: immediate
Range: personal
Target: one spell
Duration: instantaneous
Saving throw: none
Spell resistance: none

This spell does not count towards your spells per round. You may apply this spell to another spell, provided you can apply metamagic effects to the base spell. The base spells area is doubled.

Might want to specify "If you can cast a spell of the level that the spell would be with the metamagic feat". Something like that anyway.


Now for the True homebrewed spell/feats

Chain spell
Universal
Level: Cleric 0, bard 0, druid 0, sorcerer 0, wizard 0
Spell level adjustment: + 1/2
Components:
Casting time: immediate
Range: personal
Target: one spell
Duration: instantaneous
Saving throw: none
Spell resistance: none

This spell does not count towards your spells per round. You may apply this spell to another spell, provided you can apply metamagic effects to the base spell. The base spell can be chained with another spell.

So, burn all your cantrip slots, and suddenly you can nuke your opponent with a half-dozen effects at once. How about no?

Damage less spell
Universal
Level: Cleric 0, bard 0, druid 0, sorcerer 0, wizard 0
Spell level adjustment: -1
Components: V,S,M,F
Casting time: immediate
Range: personal
Target: one spell
Duration: instantaneous
Saving throw: none
Spell resistance: none

This spell does not count towards your spells per round. You may apply this spell to another spell, provided you can apply metamagic effects to the base spell. The spell now does non-lethal damage.
Material component: a foam missile
Material focus: a plastic gun to fire the foam missile. The plastic gun costs 5 gp

Or of you wish, here are the feats

Chain spell [metamagic]
You are especially good at firing one spell after another.
Benefit: you can fire off another spell after casting a spell. Both spells must have this feat applied to them.
both spells must be of the same level (example, you cannot fire off a magic missile and a lightning spell) A chained spell uses up a spell slot Ĺ higher


Damage-less spell [metamagic]
You have trained yourself to make your spells non-damaging
Benefit: your spells deal non-lethal damage instead of doing lethal damage. A damageless spell takes up a spell slot one lower


how is this?

Already told you what I think of chain spell.
Damage-less spell, you should avoid any type of metamagic that reduces a spell one level. For one, what does this do on save-or-die effects? Also, complete arcane has a feat that allows you to choose to deal non-lethal or lethal damage with a spell, upon when you first cast the spell, not when you prepare it. I think.

knightsaline
2006-09-27, 02:08 AM
damage-less spell only works on spells that deal damage, chain spell could could only apply to spells like magic missile. the ecshew materials spell is still under the limits of the metamagic feat (the component must cost less than 1 gp), so you won't see people cast true rez without the 25000 gp worth of diamonds.

let me state that the metamagic spells are still subject to the rules for metamagic feats (example: you cant apply eschew mateials onto a true rez spell, you can apply widen spell to a fireball, not a lightning spell and so on) chain spell was desgined to fire 2 magic missile spells at the same time.

Eighth_Seraph
2006-09-27, 04:31 PM
damage-less spell only works on spells that deal damage, chain spell could could only apply to spells like magic missile. the ecshew materials spell is still under the limits of the metamagic feat (the component must cost less than 1 gp), so you won't see people cast true rez without the 25000 gp worth of diamonds.

let me state that the metamagic spells are still subject to the rules for metamagic feats (example: you cant apply eschew mateials onto a true rez spell, you can apply widen spell to a fireball, not a lightning spell and so on) chain spell was desgined to fire 2 magic missile spells at the same time.

Those would all be good things to place in the original post, though I don't understand by what you mean by 'spells like magic missile'. I personally prefer the feat system to this, as you would have casters with all their 0-level slots filled with metamagic feats and it not costing them a thing. The feat system works to balance the huge gap made between wizards and sorcerers due to spontaneous casting.

knightsaline
2006-09-27, 09:26 PM
if you look closely, you can see how it would be impossible for 1st level casters to use certain metamagic spells. There are only a few of these spells able to be cast at caster level one, eschew materials, damageless spell and possibly chain spell. I place the spell level adjustment to stop someone casting magic missile at twice its range at 1st caster level.

chain spell was really designed to cast magic missiles. it may seem useless around 2nd CL, but wait untill you can cast 2 magic missiles, chained, when each magic missile spell fires 4 missiles each! thats 8 missiles, each dealing 1d4+1 force damage each! usind the SRDs dice bag, I got the following rolls
8d4+1
3,3,4,3,3,4,2,4+1 = 27
thats 27 force damage that will always happen! all for the cost of 2 magic missile spells + 1/2 spell level adjustment for each spell. this feat was inspired by the spell chain missile from the spell compendium. you could do tis with any other spell (chained lightning anyone?)

Eighth_Seraph
2006-09-27, 09:41 PM
Chained Lightning? It's a good thing that spells don't have toes, or Chain Lightining would be very stepped on right now. What I'm trying to say, though, is that if metamagic spells are placed as a rule, sorcerers especially would be getting far too easy access to them, so that at higher caster levels, they could spontaneously use up a cantrip to spontaneously make a spell more effective. Think of a sorcerer that can maximize, widen, enlarge, silence, still, or extend a spell at will; combined with the fact that she doesn't have to decide which way to prepare it in the morning. I personally think that the wizard bonus feats are just a way to make it even with the sorcerer, because wizards will always be a slight step behind sorcerers when taken by surprise, and that is made up by the fact that wizards can make their spells more effective while continuing to be able to gain other feats and can also be the party's crafter to boot, at no personal cost to themselves. Giving that ability to sorcerers will make wizards obsolete, as sorcerers still know more spells than are contained in the average wizard's spellbook until the mid-teen levels, and don't have to predict which ones will have to be used when and in what quantity.

knightsaline
2006-09-27, 11:11 PM
I'm surprised you didn't say that 2 magic missile spells, chained, doesn't step on the toes of chain missile. I can see your point about if these spells existed, the wizard would be nerfed (coincedentally, look ast the material components for damageless spell. i'm surprised no one picked it up). so this is like the case of the automatically literate barbarian (i read it on the wizards board (here it is http://boards1.wizards.com/showpost.php?p=10168262&postcount=499)
where it would wreck the game if it happened.


unrelated note: how do I make links so that they are not like that huge ugly line, but make them just say "here". none of the buttons say that