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View Full Version : [D&D 3.5] XPH: The Unbodied as a PC?



KillianHawkeye
2009-02-08, 10:55 AM
I was flipping through the monsters in the back of the Expanded Psionics Handbook when I came across this weird creature, and I started to wonder how effective/interesting it would be to play as a PC. For those of you who don't know, it's basically a person whose psionic mind evolved beyond the limits of flesh, like in a Sci-Fi show or something. It's kinda like an incorporeal doppleganger with telekinesis at will, 4 levels of Telepath, and a +4 LA.

So maybe it's just the mood I am in right now, but I am intrigued by this race and might want to play as one in the future sometime. I know +4 is a lot for a Level Adjustment, especially for spellcasters/manifesters, but whatever. Maybe the protection gained by being incorporeal, not to mention really great ability adjustments, is enough to balance it out a bit? Also, the RHD are better than actual Psion levels, since you get all the manifesting plus d8 HD, full BAB, and high Reflex and Will saves. (No Psion bonus feat, though.) It can take on the appearance of any Small, Medium, or Large creature as a standard action. And 100-ft. telepathy is always fun.

So, what do you think, Playground? Progressing Telepath manifesting seems like a given, since their ability to attack physically is so limited and switching to a different form of casting would just be crippling. Just off the top of my head, I'd probably take Expanded Knowledge to learn Astral Construct, or go into the Thrallherd prestige class. Or possibly both. Or do you think I could get away with Vow of Poverty? VoP on a creature that is nearly incapable of using equipment seems a little cheesy to me, but isn't that why VoP even exists? To make up for a lack of equipment by giving up all wealth? I know VoP is generally considered weak on these boards, but if you're incorporeal already, it's not like you've got a lot of options.

I kinda see the character as being somewhat naive, as if it's been alone for a very long time and just decided follow the first group of people to come along. It could be very wise and knowlegdeable, but having forgotten the basics of interpersonal communication despite its high Charisma score. I know this kind of character would be horribly ineffective at slaying kobolds and rescuing princesses, but I think it would be pretty interesting and still have some psionic abilities to back up its funky incorporealness. I would personally enjoy the ability to look like any creature Small to Large (it's just too bad that squirrels and cats are too small), but would it be playable? :smallconfused:

Flickerdart
2009-02-08, 11:07 AM
What's wrong with the Psion Uncarnate PrC? Capstone is incorporeality, with, I think, an hour's worth of physical form a day. Or is it hour per level?

But the 4LA is going to be painful. At 8th level, when you start it, you're manifesting as a 4th level guy, with access to 2nd level powers and a measly 17pp. A Telepath of your level would have 4th level powers, 58pp and know twice as many powers as you, not to mention being two feats ahead and having much harder saves. That extra hit point per level is easily mitigated by having 4 more hit dice than you, and the BAB comes out the same. The stat increases are nice, but hardly worth losing 4 manifester levels over.

jcsw
2009-02-08, 12:26 PM
... having much harder saves...

technically they have about the same DC as you, with a +2 DC from spell level but lose out on your +6 to int.

Unbodied are more or less only viable if there's some sort of LA mitigation from the DM.

KillianHawkeye
2009-02-08, 01:04 PM
What's wrong with the Psion Uncarnate PrC? Capstone is incorporeality, with, I think, an hour's worth of physical form a day. Or is it hour per level?

But the 4LA is going to be painful. At 8th level, when you start it, you're manifesting as a 4th level guy, with access to 2nd level powers and a measly 17pp. A Telepath of your level would have 4th level powers, 58pp and know twice as many powers as you, not to mention being two feats ahead and having much harder saves. That extra hit point per level is easily mitigated by having 4 more hit dice than you, and the BAB comes out the same. The stat increases are nice, but hardly worth losing 4 manifester levels over.

I don't see how the +4 LA is so different from the four lost levels of manifesting ability you get from Psion Uncarnate. Not to mention the fact that the Unbodied is playable from Level 8 with full incorporeality, while the Psion Uncarnate doesn't become fully incorporeal until Level 15. You do get a couple extra abilities that the Unbodied doesn't have, but to me it's not worth the extra time it takes to get them all. Sadly, I don't play many games that reach 15th level. :smallannoyed:

So, a level 15 Psion 5/Psion Uncarnate 10 will have most of the same abilities as a level 15 Unbodied RHD 4/LA +4/Psion 7, and you cast as a level 11 Psion either way. Based on this argument, I think I'll stick with the Unbodied, thanks. :smallwink:

Anybody else have an opinion?

wadledo
2009-02-08, 01:40 PM
WotC has admitted to not knowing what in heck they were doing when they put LA's on monsters, so it wouldn't be to much of a stretch to lower the LA.
A +2 seems fair, and sweeten it for your DM by dropping the Wis bonus perhaps?

From there, just make a racial class for it like Savage species, and you're golden.

Flickerdart
2009-02-08, 01:40 PM
Uncarnate loses manifester levels? It's been a while since I've seen the XPH. In that case, it's hardly worth it.

See if you can get LA buyoff.

RTGoodman
2009-02-08, 02:03 PM
Indeed, it does lose 4 manifester levels (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/psionic/prestigeClasses/psionUncarnate.htm). And the problem with LA Buy-Off for a LA +4 monster (using the UA rules, anyway) you'd only be able to buy off 1 level of the LA, and that wouldn't be until 12th level (ECL 16). And since racial hit dice (Unbodied have 4) don't count, that'd be at ECL 20. Which SUCKS.

I like the idea of making a Savage Species-style progression, and you might could even see if your DM would allow you to drop some of the Unbodied stuff in exchange for maybe letting two levels of the LA count towards your manifesting. That way you'd only be 2 levels behind rather than 4.

KillianHawkeye
2009-02-09, 12:01 AM
Well if you want a monster class for the Unbodied, you could probably just trim a couple levels off of the Psion Uncarnate and rearrange a couple things. Personally, I don't think it's necessary. I'd be perfectly willing to wait for a game that is already high enough level to use it as is, since my group tends to get most of our play in at the mid-levels anyway.

As for the Level Adjustment, it's definitely too powerful to be a +2. In this case, I'd say +4 is probably about right. Compare with the Doppleganger, which has the same RHD and the same LA, and a comparable shapechanging ability. The Doppleganger gets immunity to sleep and charm and can use detect thoughts at will. Whereas the Unbodied has the benefits of incorporeality, 4 levels of Psionic manifesting, telekinesis at will, and slightly higher ability score adjustments. Now I could see reducing the LA of the Doppleganger by a point or maybe even by 2, but I couldn't make the same case for the Unbodied. As far as I can tell, unless you like being corporeal (and using equipment), the Unbodied is clearly far superior to a Doppleganger.

So has anybody actually used one of these things, as a player or as the DM? How do they function in actual play?

And would anybody like to weigh in on the prospect of an Unbodied with Vow of Poverty? Ultra-cheesy: yes or no? 'Cause I can totally imagine an exalted Unbodied (with the Nimbus of Light chain of feats) who worshipped Ayailla, the Goddess of Light from BoED.

ChronicD
2009-04-27, 02:18 PM
Hello there

Just found this thread and thought i would talk about the unbodied that i am in the process of making.

Basically i have got a sweet DM and we are about to start a campaign in Ptolus partly because it can accommodate very varied characters. You need a setting such as this otherwise the fun of playing such a character (manipulate, walk through walls and change appearance at the same time, etc...) is lost. It lends itself towards urban settings but if you get in the right mind set it will work anywhere - A LOT of deceiving.

So down to the nuts and bolts - i started planning this character two years ago (i left the country and have just got back) and we are now going to give it a go.

The LA of 4 is really fair - but it is a high price so unless you are really going to play the character its not worth it and you should go with something else.

Prestige classes are basically not worth it. You are better served going all the way as a telepath and using the feats for expanded knowledge and such. The only exception to this is the Thrallherd

Thrallherd vs Leadership - with the thrallherd you dont get a manifesting level but do get the trallherd ability - basically leadership without maintenance. your thrall can also come up to one level below you. thrallherds also get more points in determining the number of followers chr lvl + cha mod + thrallherd lvl. leadership costs you a feat, but not a manifesting level, you also get your feats from your psion class proggression. your cohort is also limited to 2 levels below yours.

So its fairly balanced between the two for the first level however the thrallherd class becomes the better of the two from the second level on as you recieve manifesting levels and increase your thrall twice as fast. you also get some free powers as well - for the regular psion its just feats. I arranged with my dm that when i receive charm from the thrallherd class i may pick something else as i would already have it. we will do the same with dominate. This costs money in a ritual as it is forgetting and relearning the original rather then the one from the class. its 50/50 for me. but i would probably go with the thrallherd path.

i would like to point out that however you go about getting minions you are going to be by yourself untill level 10. (level 6 + LA4).

*A couple of things to think about and talk to your dm are use of Cognizance Crystals, power stones, Dorjes, shards and Pearls - i have suggested that if i use the unbodieds "invisable hand" to hold one of these i may use it. The reasoning is simple - these items are psionic items that dont require an item slot other then holding it to activate. the unbodied can hold corporal items with its mind and so seems right that it can also make make activate commands while "holding" the item, like any other character. this would be a special exemption to the rule of not being able to use corporal items, though following the same line of thought other items with similar qualities could fall under this same category especially with magic/psionic transparency.

I have also read elsewhere about ghost touched items and The Ghostly Grasp feat, allowing the unbodied to have items. It is up for debate on what slots are available - the head and eyes obviously. the picture also shows two little tentacles, these might be able to take a ring each and lastly i would suggest that a cloak would be acceptable. (i just love the idea of a floating brain with a cloak drooping to the floor). The Unbodied is described as a medium creature - so it really is one damn big brain!!! and so it makes sense that it would have at least a few item slots. The problem of finding items is another story... one other thing to consider is psionic tattoos, these could be tatted across its rubbery brain skin, how they might be applied is another story, perhaps a incarnate with the tatoo skill or a magic tattoo needle :). thinking of tattoos also reminded me of Psychoactive Skins - as these meld themselves to the host the unbodied could use one as long as it was ghost touched or it had the ghostly grasp feat.*

Also talked to the dm about what you can specifically do with the telekinetic force as you will end up using this a lot!!! for example could you shoot a crossbow - unbodied are proficient in simple weapons. could it use a sword or spear? can you grab a horse and be pulled along (unbodied max speed is fly 30ft) "carry" something with you from place to place - a travel bag hovering next to you while you move along the road. can you control material or rope? what about multiple objects with penalties - if the unboddied pretended to be a knight with a sword and shield - the sword and shield are corporal and are two items - therefore you suffer a penalty for controlling two items.

Lastly anyone thinking about playing something like this must accept that they will full fill a role half way between a rouge, bard and wizard. a lot of social interaction and manipulative actions as well as confusing the hell out of the other players.

*expanded this paragraph to talk about items*

Zhalath
2009-04-27, 02:58 PM
I personally like the unbodied, for being an easy way to access incorporeality. Everyone's whining about the +4 LA, but it's not that bad, comparable to other things, that could be worse. Having permanent disguise self and incorporealness is really awesome, especially for infiltration. Having class powers already is also great.
Overall, I'd recommend giving it a shot. You could do far worse (koffkoffogremage).