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View Full Version : [3.5] Useful System Fixes/Variants?



Kaihaku
2009-02-08, 06:23 PM
Simple. What are the most useful system fixes/variants for 3.5?

In particular I'm curious about variants involving...

Grappling! :smalleek:

Skills in general; Diplomacy (I'm familiar with the Giant's), UMD, and Concentration in particular.:smallconfused:

Polymorph! :smallyuk:

Armor Class? :smallannoyed:

Or anything else that strikes as interesting. I'm familiar with most of UA's material but feel free to share regardless. Thanks.

MeklorIlavator
2009-02-08, 06:32 PM
I have a relatively simple Polymorph fix: Remove Shapechange, Polymorph, and Polymorph Any Object. Retain Baleful Polymorph from core and any other Polymorph spell that limits one's options. For instance, the PHB2 Polymorph line, which makes one spell per monster(one for trolls, one for Unicorns, etc). Alter self is trickier, but I would keep it as a 4th or 5th level spell.

Temp.
2009-02-08, 11:11 PM
One of my groups had a massive system overhaul. Our goal wasn't balance so much as it was taking the parts of D&D that we liked and expanding them. Someone said at one of our sessions that fitting Vancian casting, Psionics, Incarnum, ToM and Invocation systems into the same game just felt awkward. Since then we've been working on a more unified system; tweaking balance when it feels like it ought to be changed, but mostly going for a simpler more coherent game.

I'm not sure I understand the idea of rewriting the system based on balance; if there's game imbalance and the players recognize it, there ceases to be a problem... no revision necessary.

Anyway, to sum up our changes (this'll probably sound more confusing than it is):


We use three generic classes, similar to the ones in UA. The Spellcaster is built on the Ardent's frame and gets to pick any mainstat. The Warrior is ToB-based, working out of the Warblade's frame (with all stances after the first knocked back a level). It gets three schools of the player's choice to build on. The Expert has some mental stat-applications based on the Factotum and accelerated advancement by level in select skills.

We've been working on fitting more and more spells and magical effects into the Spellcaster's spell [power] list. We've actually been having more troubles with Summoning ideas than we have with Polymorph. Polymorph we use like the Trollshape spell--a player picks a certain creature and replaces themselves with it; Spell [Power] level is determined according to the creature. Augmenting a Polymorph spell lets a player choose extra abilities like those for an Astral Construct.

For some reason it's been ridiculously difficult for us to balance summoning. To make the spells work like we want, they would have to summon an actual creature with its actual abilities, they would have to provide options of several things to be summoned and they would have to somehow not be far-and-away the most versatile spells allowed in our game.

I know this is the reverse of most system revisions, but we like spells like Enervation, Haste, Slow, Knock, Arcane Eye and Wall of Force, so we've turned most of the interesting buff, debuff, utility and battlefield control spells into Powers for the Spellcaster. We've nerfed or removed spells like Color Spray and Glitterdust--while they're neat, we like combats to be determined by something more interesting than "who fails a save first."

Multiclassing works for all classes like it does in ToB: Non-Spellcaster levels advance the max-PP investment and the highest-level powers a character can learn at half-rate. Experts gain an increasing bonus to a certain number of skills; this benefit advances at half its normal rate while multiclassing.

All feats are either rewritten with the goal of becoming as useful as Power Attack and Rapid Shot or are dropped. Interesting class abilities are turned into scaling feats and feat chains. Rage, for instance, is a feat. Taking the feat multiple times provides bigger benefits and more uses.

We use a few other variants based on UA's--Armor as DR, Weapon groups and class armor boosts (I know we do something about the last one significantly differently than UA, but I can't for the life of me remember what).

We've consolidated some skills, divided others (Survival, maybe something else). We've dropped Perform, Profession and Craft; if we want to use them, we usually just pen in the job and what we feel is the appropriate stat.

We haven't done anything about the classes which can't be reduced to feat packages or multiclass combinations like the Chameleon, Binder or Incarnate. We're still arguing about whether it's even worth bothering--they aren't exactly common archetypes in the first place.

There are probably some other changes we've put in place, but I can't think of any.

Also, games with that group tend to create new rules or revise old ones as we go. If something seems silly, we change it without much delay. I don't think that group's stopped to look up a rule or check they're notes since I met them; most of the time we just wing it, making up rules as we need them.


And my other group plays straight out of the Completes and Races of X series. It's pretty simple. The only houserule there that comes to mind is that bows cost 1 gp.

PinkysBrain
2009-02-09, 01:41 AM
I'm not sure I understand the idea of rewriting the system based on balance; if there's game imbalance and the players recognize it, there ceases to be a problem... no revision necessary.
Metagaming to maintain game balance gets awkward.

Also having all these win-buttons you consciously don't use get awful tempting to use "just this once" once the going gets tough ... but if you actually use them you feel cheap afterwards. Better to just not have them at all.

bosssmiley
2009-02-09, 06:49 AM
Keith and Frank's Tome Series - fixes grappling, polymorph, wish abuse, the Christmas Tree Effect (excessive magic items), the "wealth = power" conundrum, worthless martial class abilities and feats, AC stacking rules, diplomancy, b0rked LA rules, and thematically inappropriate immunities in the Undead and Construct types.

Justin Bacon's Alexandrian fixes - fixes level scaling, scry-and-fry, and the revolving door of character death.

@v: even the guys who wrote it admitted that the Tome Series Time SLAs Sphere (at will time stop at level 17) needed re-working. :smallannoyed:

Oslecamo
2009-02-09, 06:53 AM
Keith and Frank's Tome Series - fixes grappling, polymorph, wish abuse, worthless martial class abilities and feats, b0rked LA rules, thematically inappropriate immunities in the Undead and Construct types.


If by fixing you mean "everybody can time stop at will and win instantly, so nothing else matters", then yes, it indeed fixes everything.

Just for the record, their sugestion of LA rules "fix" can be summed up to "Do it yourself case by case and pray it works".

Draz74
2009-02-09, 12:52 PM
Anyway, to sum up our changes (this'll probably sound more confusing than it is):

That sounds fun. By "fun" I mean "kind of similar to the system I'm trying to create ..."


grappling :smalleek:

People actually seem to like the Pathfinder version of this, from what I've heard.


Skills in general; Diplomacy (I'm familiar with the Giant's), UMD, and Concentration in particular.:smallconfused:

I like Justin Alexander's adjustment (http://www.thealexandrian.net/creations/advanced-rules/diplomacy.html) to the Giant's Diplomacy rules. Still not perfect, still complicated, but one step closer.


Polymorph! :smallyuk:
I've heard the PHBII and later Polymorph spells fix the problem. I don't like them, personally, though. I'd rather homebrew stuff more like the Druid's Shapeshift Variant forms.

Which are a great, fun nerf to the Druid, btw.

valadil
2009-02-09, 01:11 PM
E6 seems interesting. It sets the epic level threshold to level 6. You level from 1 to 6 normally. After that instead of leveling you gain a feat. Seems like an easy way to limit power. Alternatively 6 can be replaced with any other level.

My alternative to E6 is a little different. Instead of just gaining feats at that point, you gain gestalt levels. So if a fighter passes level 6 he can start taking barbarian levels on the other side of his gestalt split. BAB and fort saves obviously won't stack, but he'll still gain a hit point, some skills, and some abilities. By the time he's 12 he's effectively a level 6 fighter//barb. After that he could start taking a third gestalt.