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Darth Stabber
2009-02-09, 11:10 AM
Looking to play a Elan Wizard(Generalist, Precocious apprentice)1/Psion(Shaper)3/Cerebramancer X. Figured that if I can't mitigate caster lvl loss, I can mitigate Manifester lvl loss.
Stats
Str10,Dex14,Con12,Int18, Wis14, Cha8

Any thoughts, Figured that when i play a psion i never really have much good utility given the Psion's limited list, and even with caster lvls lost I should get enough decent utility to shore up that weakness, especially with some wands and scrolls. Trying to decide on Psionic Discipline, Thinking Telepath or nomad. And also is Precocious apprentice to cheesy in this build. since i am effectively paying only 1feat and 1 lvl for having my psionic progression, backed by arcane.

Draz74
2009-02-09, 11:26 AM
is Precocious apprentice to cheesy in this build. since i am effectively paying only 1feat and 1 lvl for having my psionic progression, backed by arcane.

Totally up to your DM, since debates on CO Boards have never really gotten anywhere conclusive on the issue.

Your "power -> combat, spell -> utility" plan sounds fine. Remember that psionics doesn't have much in the way of good battlefield control, though, so you might still plan on picking up Web, Glitterdust, Solid Fog, Evard's Black Tentacles, and so on. Battlefield control spells that remain useful even if you get them "late," because they don't depend so much on opponents failing saves.

Telepath is generally considered one of the strongest disciplines, unless your campaign is heavy on creatures immune to mind-affecting. Nomad sounds like a weak choice, especially when transportation spells fall under the "utility" category and should be easily handled by your Wizard side. I like Shapers for overall utility and Egoists for adding some melee power, but adding some melee power in your case is probably hopeless (not the Cerebremancer's specialty!), and you can probably get by with Expanded Knowledge (astral construct) for the Shaper stuff. So I lean towards Telepath.

Darth Stabber
2009-02-09, 12:08 PM
There are only 2 shaper powers that I want, Astral Construct and Genesis, so shaper is right out. But nomad Has more than a few that I would love to have, Namely: Burst, Dimension swap, Dimensional anchor, Dissmissal, Baleful Teleport(dead body delivery system), Teleport trigger, banishment, Time hop mass, and time regression. That being said I can see the advantage of telepath, And Mind Seed is one of my favorite powers (evil descriptor be darned), Should the wizard part have a specialization?

Draz74
2009-02-09, 12:32 PM
If you really want Genesis pre-epic, you have to be a Shaper. No other way.

Burst kinda sucks. No augmentation, no scaling, doesn't stack with many other speed boosts. It's the same as Swift Expeditious Retreat, a Wizard spell, except with 1/3 of the effect. And a caster-type like this shouldn't need mobility as much as a melee type anyway.

Dismissal and Banishment suck. Outsiders tend to have SR and great Will saves, and other extraplanar things (Elementals) tend to have enormous numbers of Hit Dice.

You realize Baleful Teleport doesn't actually teleport anything, right? It's just a damage power with Fort save for half.

Your Wizard side can handle Dimensional Anchor if you don't go Nomad. Same with Dimension Swap, if you're using non-Core material (Benign Transposition spell, which makes a fabulous choice for a wand). Teleport Trigger seems awfully limited compared to Contingency, but I guess it's not worthless.

I'd certainly specialize on the wizard side. You can use all the spell slots you can get, and your Psion side can make up for whatever you ban. This character, for example, might not get as much out of Necromancy as most wizards, since psionics gives him great save-or-suck effects. Likewise, Abjuration is usually a must-have, but might not be needed here (Inertial Armor is better than Mage Armor, Dispel Psionics is sometimes better than Dispel Magic, Energy Adaptation is sometimes better than Resist Energy, etc.). Of course the ol' "ban Evocation" works too, and if you go Telepath you probably won't need Enchantment on your wizard side. Just don't ban Conjuration/Transmutation/Illusion. Psionics can't duplicate those so well.

Darth Stabber
2009-02-09, 01:19 PM
So Wizard(Diviner ban enchantment, Precocious Apprentice)1/Psion (Telepath 3)/CerebramancerX seems the way to go.
Without precocious apprentice, is this build worth even attempting?

Draz74
2009-02-09, 01:48 PM
So Wizard(Diviner ban enchantment, Precocious Apprentice)1/Psion (Telepath 3)/CerebramancerX seems the way to go.

Do you have access to Spell Compendium? Because the Core selection of Divination spells isn't that impressive. If you don't have other sources of Divination spells, I'd go Transmuter or Conjuror and ban another school.

Your familiar will also be worthless, which makes the Alternate Class Features from the PHBII worth considering. Conjuror obviously has the best of those, bordering on cheese.


Without precocious apprentice, is this build worth even attempting?

Meh ... only if you care about being versatile more than about being powerful. Even then, it depends what level the campaign is starting at -- at Levels 6-7, you're going to be pretty terrible. By Level 14-16, not so bad. :smallsmile:

Darth Stabber
2009-02-09, 03:29 PM
Actually I was going to take the flaw from Dragon magazine that trades the familiar for a feat. If the game starts @5th I won't even have my first gish lvl (Still needing another lvl of one or the other to even qualify. Is there a less questionable way to get into the class faster.)

Draz74
2009-02-09, 03:40 PM
Is there a less questionable way to get into the class faster.)

Yeah, Level 5 is pretty terrible. No, I don't know of another early-entry method. I don't think Arcane or Psionics have any fast-progression casting PrCs like Ur-Priest does for Divine.