Did the Giant foreshadow Mom dragon way back in strip #182??

[raxies94]

The strip can be found here (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0182.html).

Pay close attention to where the younger dragon says, "My mom taught me..."

Anyone else see this? Or am I just going crazy? If the Giant really did foreshadow this, then he is one of the most far seeing writers I know of.

Thoughts anyone?

EDIT: It's been brought to my attention that this (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0572.html)comic also has relevance.

[CaptainIreland]

If the Giant really did foreshadow this, then he is one of the most far seeing writers I know of.

Thoughts anyone?

Thoughts?

1) He's a far seeing WEBCOMIC writer, which is different. That was less than 500 pages ago, which in a series of novels is nothing, but it can show he put more into a complete webcomic than many others.

2) Since this is one story, I find it very likely he planned to have the mother show up at some point.

[Prak]

I find it more likely he just keeps a record of things that are said that can be throw away comments, and occasionally picks one of these to make matter.

[kusje]

1) He's a far seeing WEBCOMIC writer, which is different. That was less than 500 pages ago, which in a series of novels is nothing, but it can show he put more into a complete webcomic than many others.


Exactly. Many writers know how their story will end and the general plot of it even before the first book is published.

I'll never know how they do that since I spend all my time trying to actually keep up with the plot.

[xyzzy]

The fact that he specifically was told by his mother that it was "important to study other cultures" is especially interesting. Given Vaarsuvius' (and the rest of the party's) ignorance that killing the dragon is killing someone's child and how significant that is in draconic culture and the fact that this is only becoming an issue now suggests it probably was foreshadowed.

[Optimystik]

It's not necessary for Rich to possess any sort of hyperclairvoyance to foreshadow that far. Rather, he can set up V's rendezvous with the dragon and then cram in B-plots aplenty (Haley's voice, Cliffport, The Azure Trial, Kubota & Therkla, etc.) knowing that there is nothing in any of them that would interfere with V's failure during the AC battle and subsequent decision to leave the Order.

[Sholos]

I'm not sure it was exactly foreshadowing so much as just giving the dragon a reason to know lizard. Does this really need all that much discussion? If so, can't it be done in one of the other threads?

[[TS] Shadow]

I'm not sure it was exactly foreshadowing so much as just giving the dragon a reason to know lizard. Does this really need all that much discussion? If so, can't it be done in one of the other threads?

You're misunderstanding. He didn't need to say "my mom," he could have said "I like to study different cultures," meaning he just learned on it's own, which would be accepted.

[Prak]

But "My mother told me it was important to study other cultures" is both more of a joke, and is a reference to a killer movie.

[Wraithfighter]

There are two ways to play chess, outside of the super grandmaster level at least.

The first is to plan many, many moves ahead, planning things out so that nothing can surprise you and everything unfolds perfectly.

The second is to play for position, taking the logical points (knights in the center, castling, etc) and not giving up pieces for free. And maybe that rook you put in the b rank will pay off twenty moves in the future.

In this case, Rich did the latter. He put thought into a random monster they encountered and threw in a little bit of backstory. And now, when he needs a true threat to V that won't feel like something ret-conned in, here comes momma.

That is how you write an open ended story. Don't neccessarily foreshadow things, but put thought into everything. That tiny character in season one may turn out to be a major person as time wears on.

But, no, not major foreshadowing. Just strong writing and good memory.

[theMycon]

But "My mother told me it was important to study other cultures" is both more of a joke, and is a reference to a killer movie.

Movie? I tried googling, but fully half the returns were about this comic, and the rest made no movie mention.

[Prak]

Boondock Saints

[while interrogating the boys, Smecker is surprised that they are fluent in Russian]
Paul Smecker: You speak any other languages?
Murphy: Aye. Our mother insisted on it.
Paul Smecker: French?
Murphy: [in French] How do you think he figured all this out without talking to us?
Paul Smecker: Oh, that's beautiful.
Connor: [in Italian] I have no idea. Maybe somebody saw and talked.
Paul Smecker: What's that?
Connor: [chuckling] That's Italian.
Murphy: [in German] Not in our neighborhood, man. A hundred percent Irish. No one talks to cops. Period.
Paul Smecker: [not understanding] Jawohl!
Connor: [in Spanish] Then I guess he's just real, real good.

Not like it's a quote, and it's not necessarily a reference, but it made me think of it.

[Warren Dew]

The second is to play for position, taking the logical points (knights in the center, castling, etc) and not giving up pieces for free. And maybe that rook you put in the b rank will pay off twenty moves in the future.

In this case, Rich did the latter. He put thought into a random monster they encountered and threw in a little bit of backstory. And now, when he needs a true threat to V that won't feel like something ret-conned in, here comes momma.

I'm inclined to agree, though I'm less sure than you are. Does it really matter, though? I think it still counts as foreshadowing.

Rich definitely did plan this explicitly back when the oracle dismissed Roy, which is impressive enough to me - especially as that seemed to be a minor detail at the time.

[Nimrod's Son]

This is already being discussed here (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=103859).

[MCerberus]

The second is to play for position, taking the logical points (knights in the center, castling, etc) and not giving up pieces for free. And maybe that rook you put in the b rank will pay off twenty moves in the future.


At anything intermediate+ you need to do both. An example of only doing one is getting mated in 10 turns by the Liver and Onions. I think he did both here. When he made soooo many references to how the baby dragon isn't the only dragon around there, he had in mind that the big dragon would be mad at V. In my view, I think Rich plans out each arc before it gets to the comic, and the dragon has been in there for a while.

[Wraithfighter]

At anything intermediate+ you need to do both. An example of only doing one is getting mated in 10 turns by the Liver and Onions. I think he did both here. When he made soooo many references to how the baby dragon isn't the only dragon around there, he had in mind that the big dragon would be mad at V. In my view, I think Rich plans out each arc before it gets to the comic, and the dragon has been in there for a while.

Yeah, that sounds about right.

I just figure that, rather than planning everything over 500 strips ago, he sowed the seeds for a new villain back then in case he ever needed one, and when he was thinking up V's arc for this bit he pulled the dragon from the bag.

[ericgrau]

I've seen at least one other comic where the author did not plan things in advance, but later made tie ins to previous things which made it look like they were planned. The Giant says he has a general outline well in advance, but specifics come later. Given the simpler nature of the comic at the time that they fought the first dragon vs. the recent massive web of plot links, I'm betting that the Giant didn't come up with this until recently. Maybe around the start of the trance-deprived-V arc, maybe when Roy was with the Oracle, but not all the way back in comic 182.

[raxies94]

There are two ways to play chess, outside of the super grandmaster level at least.

The first is to plan many, many moves ahead, planning things out so that nothing can surprise you and everything unfolds perfectly.

The second is to play for position, taking the logical points (knights in the center, castling, etc) and not giving up pieces for free. And maybe that rook you put in the b rank will pay off twenty moves in the future.

In this case, Rich did the latter. He put thought into a random monster they encountered and threw in a little bit of backstory. And now, when he needs a true threat to V that won't feel like something ret-conned in, here comes momma.

That is how you write an open ended story. Don't neccessarily foreshadow things, but put thought into everything. That tiny character in season one may turn out to be a major person as time wears on.

But, no, not major foreshadowing. Just strong writing and good memory.

I think this is probably the best argument. It seems to make the most sense to me.

[raxies94]

This is already being discussed here (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=103859).

...Will it hurt anyone's feelings if I just say I don't care?

[evileeyore]

Rich also plays and runs D&D.

It is not a stretch for a DM to toss out plot threads (such as "Hmmm, this adolescent dragon will have parents, I may need a powerful enemy in the future... drop a few hints... hehehehe") whether those plots ever develop or get used is another matter.

But that they were dropped out there means they are available.

[Nimrod's Son]

...Will it hurt anyone's feelings if I just say I don't care?
Hurt anyone's feelings? I doubt it.

It is, however, against forum rules to post redundant threads, and this one is exactly the same topic as the one I linked to. Not to mention that at the time of your original post, the first topic was a matter of about three centimetres further down the very same page from yours.

[kusje]

...Will it hurt anyone's feelings if I just say I don't care?

Yes.... it will... In fact, I'm going to cry myself to sleep tonight and if I start a flood, it will be all your fault.

[Forum Staff]

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